EPT/in
Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
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On March 30 2013 03:03 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: wow guys way to bail ^^^^^^ | ||
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On March 31 2013 07:27 Kurumi wrote: join guys nice game good play good play nice roles cool play join join two camels Exactly. | ||
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On April 01 2013 10:46 Ace wrote: this game going to happen? I sure as hell hope so. I've been hoping for a PYP game ever since I first started playing mafia on TL. | ||
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Anyways, herro friends. | ||
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On April 04 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote: /confirm Hi peoples! So are we planning to plan, or are we planning for not planning? What's the plan, Stan? Hello lover. ! I forgot you were in this game. As far as planning, I honestly think the only kind of planning we need is a list of [b]Do-Not-Pick-Or-You-Get-Lynched-When-We-Find-Out[b] roles (Prince of Darkness, Admiral Ackbar...Vote Rigger? not sure what else). Otherwise, just have fun IMO. | ||
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What if the 1-2 people you have "solid town reads" on by tomorrow when the picking phase starts are #22 and #23 in the draft order? | ||
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On April 04 2013 13:18 Mocsta wrote: "Janitor" Busy always cleaning up after other people's mess. You love your job so much though that you'll even clean up dead bodies. During the Night you may PM me that you want to clean up all the dead bodies in Town. No player's role or alignment will be revealed upon death for that upcoming Day. Since you are cleaning up the bodies however, you will learn the role and alignment of all the bodies you clean up. You can only use this ability once. My interpretation is that after 48 hrs (Day cycle) the real flips are revealed. You're interpretation is wrong (at least with how Janitors normally work). The red part that you quoted means that none of the following Day's flips (aka the night kills) will be revealed AT ALL. Never. | ||
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On April 04 2013 23:44 austinmcc wrote: (2) Assassin - See above. Mafia knows all alignments, therefore this is a multi-shot vig without accountability. I think you're reading Assassin wrong. AFAIK, a scum assassin can't say ##Kill austinmcc GREEN. Its either ##Kill: austinmcc ROLENAME, or ##Kill austinmcc RED. So yea, Assassin is strong for scum when combined with a rolecop, but by itself it's only a mediocre scum role unless people go around claiming their roles willy-nilly. As for the roles I would want to deny: 1) Janitor: this one is obvious. It denies town all information in a game where there are obviously going to be multiple kills. 2) CPR Doc: By far the strongest scum aligned KP role. Bonus here is that he can be strong for town too, if the person doesn't use it stupidly. 3) Thief: I don't particularly think this role is super strong on its own, but it destroys our ability to deny roles, which was the whole point of this discussion. About the 'Force VTs to claim what they tried to take': I'm pretty meh about that idea, because it is extremely hard to track. I mean, lets say there's a scum in the 6th draft position. He picks, say, inventor and gets it. Then he says that he tried to pick Inventor and got VT. Now we almost HAVE to have a Role Cop check him to see if he's lying. If he's not, then we still have 6 people who could possibly be inventor. Or lets take it a step deeper: scum in the 7th spot tries to take CPR Doc, and doesn't get it. His buddy in the 12th spot tries to take Inventor and gets it. Scum in 7th spot tells the thread that he tried to take Inventor and didn't get it. We have a rolecop check him and he is in fact vanilla. What the hell do we do in this situation? I just don't see any actual benefit to it, when it comes down to actually playing the game, outside from some theoretical (and completely obscure) information. And lots of misdirection opportunities for scum. | ||
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On April 05 2013 02:53 Caller wrote: wait how does vivax know there are five mafia It says it right under the player list. | ||
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On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote: @All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. | ||
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On April 05 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion? There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you. I was responding to geripts plan to full pod out the game. IE: people in slots 1-4 only pick roles A, B, C, or D. Players in slots 5-6 only pick roles from E, F, G, or H. That's boring to me. I'm fine with players being given first picks (in theory) if they are going to use them to deny scum roles. If they're just going to pick whatever they feel like, then I disagree. | ||
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On April 05 2013 03:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: And i still don't see why people in top spots must ABSOPLUTELY deny strong mafia roles that do not benefit town? If we follow Vivax plan mafia in top 5 will get outed at some point or they are town and 6-> can deny the roles if they feel like it. So lets say we follow your plan, and give the top 5 picks to the guys that you said. And lets say t hat one of them is scum, and picks Janitor or CPR Doc. How exactly do they get outed by getting to pick those roles for free with no contest? | ||
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On April 05 2013 03:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact that they do not die in the first couple of cycles and there is going to be cops and stuff anyways. This is actually an interesting perspective. Giving strong roles to "weak" townies forces scum to choose between shooting better players or better roles. *NORMALLY* they pick the better player. Which would kind of make your plan fail. But maybe some of the roles are actually strong enough to counter-act that. | ||
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Scum not having their "optimal" roles is way more important than town not having its "optimal" roles. Town can win this game with all VTs if we need to, as long as scum doesn't have their "perfect" team. And the kicker is that scum aren't ever going to pick most of the town optimal roles (except maybe inventor) because they just aren't useful to scum and they have no reason to deny them from town. They would just be better off picking mediocre scum roles. | ||
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On April 05 2013 11:15 Restraining Order wrote: These 5 players picked [8] as their first numbers. This means, at least 4 of those 5 are town. Fucking boggle? You do realize that 3 of the 5 scum in PYP: Insane picked [9] for the first number right? What's with people using terrible heuristics for calling people town? | ||
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@geript: Only 1 investigative role and no protection roles in your lists? That seems like a recipe for disaster. | ||
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On April 05 2013 14:00 geript wrote: eh, I don't value investigation roles very highly. If people want to go for them, I'm not going to prevent it. I think that there are just better options available. As for protection roles, the only one I really like is jailkeeper. If you want to post a better list I would love to see it. As a matter of fact I think it would be good for other people to chime in on general draft strategy as it would give some of the slackers a better idea of what to go for. Investigative roles are super strong, especially in a setup like this where if scum knows that we are taking investigative roles, they have to make a choice: either pick some misdirection roles to protect themselves (GF, Framer), or just hope they never get checked. And, conversely, your list advocates taking basically every kill role. That means we could have like 6-8 KP flying around per day/night. How do you expect to win if we have no way to stop any of it? Just hope our townies are good enough to only hit scum? That's not very realistic, IMO. I'm trying to remember what game it was (Themed Mafia, I think). It was Pick Their Power instead of Pick Your Power, so each person had to create a role for someone else. Basically no one ended up giving anyone a protection role, and there were lots of KP roles. Town lost handily. | ||
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Roles we want to attempt to deny: Inventor CPR Doc Janitor Thief Roleswapper Hooker Other roles that both teams probably want, so maybe some of these should be taken in the next few slots: Rock Star Jailkeeper Bulletproof Hero NRA Member Meth Man Vigilante Russia (Maybe...depends on if they have to use the Nuke publicly like America...if they don't then this goes here) Assassin Politician Vote Rigger Jack Role Reverser Prince of Darkness Moderator BloodyC0bbler Roles that are (almost) strictly town roles and good picks anywhere you can get them: NKVD Agent Detective Role Cop Parity Cop (**Note: Detective roles listed in order of strength. DT and NKVD are basically equal, though) Witch Doctor Medic Veteran (This is arguably a solid scum pick too, but I'm not sure they would actually pick it with stronger roles in the game. ..............Depends on how far down the order are, probably) Capitalist Priest Roleblocker Bone Breaker (Although this is arguably not super useful) Fake Steve Some roles that townies basically have 0 reason to pick except for trolling/funtimes: Martyr Bodyguard Floridian (This role isn't terrible, I just feel like its weak unless you are very late in the draft and just want to get a role) Cupid Showtime! Justice Vigilante (Unless you are just a 100% master scumhunter never wrong, don't pick this) There are some obvious roles that I didn't mention because I'm not sure where to put them. America!: This role is "strong" for both teams. But, I honestly just feel like we would be better off as a town to just refuse to pick it. Make mafia waste a pick on it, if they want it. And if they do, we can lynch them. If someone from town does pick this, you will 100% be held accountable for your shots. If you're going to use it, you better be DAMN sure. Day Vig: This is basically in the same boat as America!, except its a lot weaker. Oddly, that might make mafia more likely to pick it, because of WIFOM. Use/pick with extreme discretion. Kingmaker: This is the hardest one to pick. Obviously scum could use it quite effectively, while it would be extremely hard for town to use while having any accountability. Being forced to use it every day makes it hard to use for town. Who knows where it goes. Admiral Ackbar: Another weird role, because it is reasonably strong in scum hands, but it's not necessarily gamebreaking when the scum has no idea how many people it would kill. Maybe 0. Might be worth attempting to deny, but I'm not sure. Framer: I originally had it in my town Do Not Pick list, but I didn't realize it had the "redirects any night action by the player. So its basically a roleblocker, but hurts town if it happens to coincide with a check. Yea, I still think town doesn't have much/any reason to pick this. There are a few more that I didn't mention, but they are generally just mediocre and/or super hard to use. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:24 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont see how mafia cant abuse this liberty. They tunnel a guy, then nuke him. And we dont lynch him Policy regarding nukes, if you launch one, you are scum bro. Maybe an addendum: If you launch one, and you hit town, then you get lynched no questions asked. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:27 yamato77 wrote: Rayn is probably town. He's an idiot at times, but eh. I don't think he'd be so spammy and carefree as scum. Vivax' town read of him is not that odd. What is odd about Vivax is that he's not screaming at someone for being scum yet. The problem with this is that I think he was either drunk or high. Its easy to make bad decisions that you normally wouldn't make when you're fucked up. But he was basically just quoting a "Scumtells For Dummies" book at people while yelling scum. Who knows. Hopefully he calms down tomorrow. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:29 ObviousOne wrote: Arguably, nuking at all should get the person lynched I guess. Scum with the role could nuke scum for the town cred (really stupid and wifom but it's in the realm of possibility) and to bypass all of that, we could just agree to policy lynch America when they are outed in the thread to be 100% sure. If someone is scum and starts nuking his buddies, then I'm fine with letting him live TBH. Think about it like this: If that person is trying to emulate town, then what is the normal mafia reaction? To NK said person. If they are still alive 2/3/whatever days later, then we can talk about it again. I think its dumb to say "We're going to policy lynch anyone who uses a nuke, even if they hit scum" because then if a townie  OES* pick America, and they O* hit scum, then scum don't have to use a kill to get rid of him because they know town is going to do it for them. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote: I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip. Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that. I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess.... Err what? How is that in any way a scumslip :o You're seeing things that aren't there, IMO lol. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:57 Mocsta wrote: Perhaps, the only reason I dont think its a slip is because its a common saying; and perhaps used in the wrong context. It still does infer he is aware VE is active in a QT. You mean imply, not infer. You inferred based on his implication But I digress...I don't even think it implies that. I mean, I guess I can see how you can read it and think that, but in context the implication to me is that VE is not being out in the open with his thoughts, and instead of hiding in the background without particularly doing anything. Which I can agree with, but I don't think it really means anything yet. | ||
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On April 05 2013 16:10 Mocsta wrote: The whole question is voided now, but it was never a big deal in the first place. <3 Which brings me to another question: Why even bring it up then? Like, what purpose did it serve, if you already didn't think it was a scumslip? | ||
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Anyways, I'm going to sleep. G'nite. | ||
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@austin: To start with, I wasn't the one that proposed the policy. Oats was. I just modified it to be more appropriate. But I digress... You and I have the same end goal: stop people from using public vigs willy-nilly. Do I have any illusions that saying "I will policy lynch anyone who shoots a townie" will stop people? Not most people. But you shouldn't honestly think that saying "pretty please don't shoot" will stop anyone either. People gon' do what people gon' do. I just think its better to be forceful about it to at least make scum have to seriously think hard about picking America. | ||
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On April 06 2013 02:19 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, I'm not against using KP. Right now there are people you don't want to shoot at all basically (town reads or active people), and then guys you are free to shoot. I wouldn't mind everybody shooting the guys you are free to shoot and leave the guys you don't shoot alive, either single handily winning us the game, or putting us very very closer to doing so. For instance, anybody is free to shoot Caller if he plays like this until N1. You can figure out the rest of that list, you guys are not dumb. D1 will give people a better idea of where to go and stuff. Also it'd be chaos to enforce So your advice is "townies kill of bad players, while scum kill off the good ones"? I don't even.... | ||
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On April 06 2013 02:43 gonzaw wrote: If we just play "well" there'll be no problems, thus being unnecessary to enforce any policy (which would be un-enforceable). This is part of the problem. I've just stopped expecting people to play 'well' when given KP at their disposal. Hell, you were in Themed Mini. I know you were scum, so it worked out for you fine, but look at all the KP roles town had compared to the amount of protection/investigation roles they had. That game went HORRIBLY for town because of it. We even had this discussion in post-game :o And you're right, if someone picks Vigilante and shoots a townie, we have no way to even know who the shot came from to enforce a policy. But I was specifically talking about a role like America where the shot is 100% public knowledge. | ||
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On April 06 2013 02:57 Caller wrote: Someone asked me why I FOS Keirathi a while back. I'll tell you why. Look at his post history. It's all posts of "being helpful" and "discussing the format" and "lightly criticizing one of these bullshit plans." All typical red-as-fuck mafia scumbaggery. It was shit like that that made me shoot GMarshal Night 0 (whom was a mafia roleblocker that time). And don't forget that since nobody has a role yet, there's absolutely no reason for anybody to be acting like a blue, because there aren't any blues! So if they're fishy and scummy and CLEARLY NOT BLUE, what does this mean? I"ll say it. Keirathi is fucking scum. Rofl, okay Caller. And how, exactly, is that different from what a townie would do? Are townies never helpful? Do townies not discuss the setup? Do townies not criticize bullshit plans? | ||
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On April 06 2013 03:03 Caller wrote: they do, but they also scumhunt. you haven't even tried to scumhunt. Townies especially don't just pontificate about the setup and try to "win arguments" like your post history shows. due to laziness i'm would rather not bother dissecting it on a case by case basis for the proles, but i will if i have to. You are right about one thing in this paragraph. I haven't been scumhunting (except for calling rayn out a bit). But, policy talk is the easiest thing in the world for mafia to participate in. Hell, they don't even have to have opinions. But really, over half of the thread hasn't been scumhunting, so why me and not, say, Palmar? deconduo? VE? I can keep listing people, but this conversation is pointless. Where have been trying to "win arguments" though? Because that is the complete opposite of what I have been doing. I've been trying to make my opinion heard, but I haven't been forcing my opinion anywhere. So yea, you're case basically boils down to "he's being too nice". Okay then. | ||
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On April 06 2013 03:26 Caller wrote: That bolded sentence is the definition of textbook mafia early play. The rest of your argument isn't even one, you basically admit all my points are right, you ad hominem a few, and you ask what about x, y, and z. unfortunately, x, y, and z haven't done all the things you've done together. get'em, etc. That doesn't make sense. YOU were the one that claimed I was trying to win arguments. Show me where. Quit backtracking. | ||
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On April 06 2013 03:44 gonzaw wrote: ObviousOne has passed the "Fluff and Filler!" 101 class with honors, and seems to continue to excel in the course Example of fluff: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=32#628 Example of out of place attempt to scumhunt which seems "obviously" pointless pressure the more you think about it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=35#695 Obvious does that as either alignment. | ||
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On April 06 2013 03:47 gonzaw wrote: I'm reading his filter from RED and I don't get the same feeling there as I do here. He seems more "noob" this game than on that one. Plus I checked his profile and the only game he's been scum was in the hydra game with VE and he barely posted there at all. Feel free to provide counterexamples Well that's a different point entirely. I was just saying that he posts non-consequential fluff even as town. | ||
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You missed the point. You called me scum for TRYING TO WIN ARGUMENTS. Then I say I wasn't trying to win arguments, I was just making my opinions known, and you call me scum for NOT TRYING TO WIN ARGUMENTS. How can I be scum for both of those? | ||
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On April 06 2013 03:56 Caller wrote: because it was a bloody trick, the very fact that you jumped on the intentionally shitty argument that I laid while simultaneously ignoring or ad homineming the far more damning points makes it obvious that you're not town, you're just a mafia trying to poke holes in an argument you think has no weight because its not even day 1 yet. Well, it has weight. Not as heavy as Palmar, but still. An actual mafia tactic is to win points in debates by taking the right side or by simply participating. At the same time, mafia do not want to seem closed minded so they appeal to both sides of an argument, or spread themselves out onto both sides of an argument, without trying to piss anybody off. Which apparently, I have accomplished. Oh, so it was all a brilliantly planned trap? Got it. Carry on. | ||
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On April 06 2013 04:35 austinmcc wrote: I don't mind the caller arguing with Keirathi. Do you think he has a point? Do you think I am scum? | ||
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On April 06 2013 04:49 sinani206 wrote: There's nothing wrong with him making a case on you. That's not what I asked at all. | ||
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On April 06 2013 04:55 austinmcc wrote: I do think he has some points. I think you're worth watching, but more for non-caller reasons. This post: Still doesn't make me feel the happy-haps. I disagree with you when you say that you weren't the guy who suggest lynching folks who hit town. I said I wasn't the one who suggested policy lynching people for using nukes. After Oats suggested it, I did suggest the addendum, obviously. | ||
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It was a policy to police ONE role (well maybe 2...depends on how Russia works). A role with which no townie SHOULD be shooting anyways. Why are you so adamantly against that? It doesn't make sense, unless you're posturing to protect yourself/someone who is planning to pick America. | ||
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On April 06 2013 05:58 austinmcc wrote: In some ways it's a "If you give a mouse a cookie" scenario. If you suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with nukes, then you kind of have to suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with dayvig powers. If you suggest lynching daynukers and dayvigs, you should probably also be lynching any night vigs who claim their shots and hit townies. You're suggesting, at the very least, lynching SOME vigis who hit townies, if not all. There are a boatload of posts from earlier on why I think that/that policy is a bad idea. MZ had some too. I'm fine saying "townies shouldn't be shooting." See those posts. I'm fine if decon or someone jokingly/seriously says "I'm taking KP roles and blasting someone in the face every day no matter what anyone says." Well, not fine, but I honestly wouldn't find that scummy. I find the half-position that I get from your post, that townies maybe shouldn't shoot, but maybe they should, except if they do and hit town they'll get lynched. You're implicitly saying, "Townies, you guys should shoot, but only hit scum, kkk." Which is unrealistic to expect, a poor plan for KP roles imo, and just generally not what I'd expect from you. That's not what I'm saying at all thought. I don't think townies should be shooting. I thought I made that perfectly clear. But I am also a realist, and I know that people are going to shoot if they want to shoot. I am trying to discourage them from doing so, in a way that saying "pretty please play nice" won't. | ||
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Why would I be telling townies to shoot, when I also specifically told townies to take protection/investigation roles because they are stronger than KP roles? Does not compute. | ||
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On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote: 3. RO is a great opportunity for a mislynch. If you read the thread up to this point, VE isn't the first and likely won't be the last to suspect RO. IIRC Rayn, Gonzaw and someone else already expressed thoughts that they were suspicious of RO. He hasn't shown a great deal of activity. His posts haven't established him either way. This is an easy lynch to push just like the Greymist lynch was an easy one to push. Yo, broski. How do you know that RO is town? | ||
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BC said the game would be delayed 24 hours, so I went out on the lake today with some friends. Catching up/etc now. | ||
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Damn, you caught me in that lie. I was really jerking it for 12 hours straight. | ||
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On April 07 2013 10:01 Bill Murray wrote: I'm seeing a pattern emergy, though Sharrant calls out Keirathi > gets a wagon on him started >Keirathi shows up Strong and Big gets FoSed >posts 10 minutes later all these lameo excuses When VE was being attacked, persecuted... no... harassed... over his failure to contribute on DAY ZERO, and his lack of a solid case/scumhunting... he doesn't show up no excuses, nothing. There's no way he's scum. The VE I know would be flailing as scum right now... this guy is just... not here. It's like he is a husk of the player that I have seen on this site before. VE just completely disappeared and didn't even try to fight his lynch when he was scum in Hydra. Bad heuristic if that's what you're using to judge if VE is town or not. | ||
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On April 07 2013 10:05 Bill Murray wrote: I wasn't in "Hydra", bub I know you weren't. I'm just telling you that it wouldn't be unheard of for a scum VE to give up. And town VE could/has done it too. Not alignment indicative. | ||
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raynpelikoneet: I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up: 1) Progression of reads: I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? On March 26 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: A good question. After all it was prplhz who disappeared, not me. On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. On March 26 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: The reason i asked the question from marv was this post: He had voted me because i "overreacted" to prplhz. How does me asking "what's with the ninja vote?" make him change his vote to a stupid policy lynch? On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this: If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave? If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia). On March 27 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Besides this i havn't attacked people. I questioned marv and Keirathi. Keirathi told me why i was wrong in prplhz-defending-thingy, i agreed i was wrong and let it go. I questioned marv because i wanted him to do stuff. I agree with his reads/observations when he presented them and it makes me think he is town for now. He still didn't answer my question about the start of the game but because everyone seems to think it's irrelevant it probably is and i'm not going to sidetrack the discussion by screaming about it over and over again. Try again Cora. What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town. Now let's look at this game: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3 scum reads: Caller, RO, Oats. On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning. And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure. And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then: Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me). Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED. 2) "The Plan": This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention. On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town. It's beneficial to town to have as many upper slots as possible. In one PYP i remember mafia!Chezinu picking CPRdoctor as ~#22. FUCKING CPRdoctor @ #22!!! There needs to be some cooperation in the picks, but it can't be too obvious or it's advantageous to mafia. If someone of us is mafia it doesn't matter, we need to be responsible for our actions regarding our role anyways. Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles. However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night. Which makes me question this: On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. "This is the only plan I will support!" "Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good." He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one. But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best". TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum. ##vote raynpelikoneet | ||
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On April 07 2013 12:15 yamato77 wrote: Does town Palmar try to look involved at all if he doesn't care about the game? I'll look back at some other games, but it doesn't seem all that different from Hydra/RED Team. Comments on rayn? | ||
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On April 07 2013 12:32 yamato77 wrote: He spams I'm avoiding talking about the spammers right now since we have so many. Not good lynches, IMO. You're right, He does spam. But even that is such a huge difference from his town play (although I will admit I haven't read XXXIX or whatever game he was scum in). His MENTALITY is just so different though. I just can't see how such a drastic change in playstyle is possible in ~3 days or whatever since RED ended. And I said I would go look back at other Palmar games and get back to you. | ||
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On April 07 2013 12:34 yamato77 wrote: You fail to understand what I'm saying. Town Palmar doesn't give fucks, sure, but he doesn't make a point of telling the thread multiple times that he doesn't give a fuck. He's better than any of you guys' lynchbait options. Okay, so I did go back and look at Palmar. Particularly his town play in PYP: Redux, and even flipped through a few of his scum games. From PYP: Redux, he had a couple of posts saying that he wasn't reading the thread/everything was spam/the pick phase was unimportant. Granted, not nearly as many as he has here, but why does it make him scum this time? And on top of that, I just don't see the sentiment in his scum play either. So again: why, specifically, is this a scumtell for Palmar? Looking through his filter this game, I just don't see anything I find particularly alignment indicative. It's just a bunch of bullshit that he is perfectly capable of as either alignment. I'm much more interested in who he pushes and why. | ||
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On April 07 2013 13:25 yamato77 wrote: He's pushing VE. How do you feel about VE? I'll be completely honest: I have absolutely no idea how to read VE. In both games I've played with him [on my own*], I've thought he was scum and been completely wrong. (*Exception being Hydra, but that was just marv. I actually didn't have an opinion on VE before marv started telling me he was scum). I will say that I have noticed something that scum VE does that town VE doesn't. He hasn't done it yet this game. And obviously I can't say what it is, because then he would just know to avoid doing it. I'll expound on it later if something changes. | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:12 Mocsta wrote: Mr. Meta king Keirathi. Can you give me your opinion on S&B. I only have played games where he was town. Despite playing with scum S&B twice (Chrono and WLIAA), I don't actually know his scumplay very well. Partly because I refuse to go back and read Chrono (that game just needs to be wiped from the annuls of history), and partly because scum S&B just played an excellent game in WLIIA, which everyone who is familiar with his typical scumplay said was abnormal. So about this game: After whoever it was called him out, S&B came out of the woodworks to say: On April 07 2013 06:07 strongandbig wrote: Lol when did I consider the number picking strategy to be very important Afaik i haven't posted anything of substance since the game started, but I'm a little confused about what you meant by "concerned about roles" when the game started? So why did he say that - On April 04 2013 19:33 strongandbig wrote: Afaik pyp games are often determined by "this bullshit". The picking phase strategy is a big part of the game. And I sort of agree with denying scum roles, but we should limit it to one or maybe two roles, because if we have strong consensus townies early in the order then giving them actual good roles could be very powerful. Also oats the draft order is public knowledge. Logic would decree that if you say you think PYP games are won or lost based on the picking phase strategy, that you would think the picking phase is important. So why does he say that he never thought that? But more importantly, with the earlier quote, is that he ostensibly thinks that the picking strategy is important. Yet he does absolutely nothing to contribute to it at all. Why not? Yea, I could see S&B being scum. | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:36 Mocsta wrote: Yes, im comfortable with a SnB vote as well. My expectations for a town SnB are more of a personal heuristic, from "The Game" ObsQT where SnB berated me for poor play, incessantly. Im not getting any of that vibe from him this game at all. In fact, his emphasis in that ObsQT exchange was that town shouldnt be posting useless/nothing posts; yet, here ironically he admits he hasnt posted "anything of substance since the game started". ##Vote: StrongandBig Talk to me about rayn first. | ||
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EBWOP: Also, I guess I should say that town S&B didn't really berate people for poor play in RED that I remember. And berating people for poor play in an Obs QT when you weren't even part of the game is something that lots of people do. I don't think its specific to S&B or to S&B's town play at all. | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:43 Bill Murray wrote: Rayn is town or is playing nice as scum Did you read my case? :o I don't think he's playing nice at all. I think he's playing very different from the way he thinks and acts when he's town. | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: I first want to say that this thread is spammed up to almost the point of unreadable... This is not how Town wins games. Secondly, out of the current lynch candidates, here are my opinions: VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge. Keirathi: Null atm, nothing pointing him at being scum, but don't want to say definitely townie so soon. I just played in RTP with him and he seems to be playing rather similarly, so if I had to pick I'd say town. Restraining Order: Very difficult to read, so I'll wait to see more of him and on him. StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now. ##Vote: StrongandBig Safe side of what? If you're town, why do you need to be on the safe side of ANYTHING? Just state your opinion, and then either reevaluate when necessary or be wrong. Its scum who are worried about how their reads make them look. You scum? | ||
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Oh, what the fuck. On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now. Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:59 Shelvocke wrote: Does anyone have a mafia game for rayn? Mocsta, I'm not whoever you think I am. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402424&user=27448¤tpage=All | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment. As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:33 Shelvocke wrote: I don't really think rayn is mafia. His play does look different from those town quotes you had, but it doesn't look like that mafia game either. The only part of that game where he just suddenly jumps is the part where he votes for Krefla and even then he has a reason because Krefla just came in right before the deadline. The fact that he seems a lot more impulsive in this game than he has been before is something that points to him being town. I feel he would be a lot more careful and safe as mafia. The plan switch looks kind of strange, but his overall attitude makes him more likely town. I've thought about it from that angle as well. But I run into a problem: On March 30 2013 10:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: wow, a meta case on me. I play the same as town or mafia, believe or not, jsut that my intentions are different. But go on and expand this, you have been willing to do this a while anyways. I'm willing to hear that. On April 01 2013 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can tell you that scum!rayn would have the balls to do stuff like that. Don't you think it would be a bit OP for mafia to have an incredibly powerful vote-rigger (given that Palmar had the double lynch power) and a multi-shot anonymous vigi? Those are some more quotes from Red Team. Which leads me to believe that rayn is incredibly confident in his own scum play, and therefore wouldn't necessarily play careful or safe and that he would take risks that helped him win. I dunno though. I'll think about it some more, and see what he has to say. For now, I'm going to sleep though. G'nite! | ||
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I just don't find your case all the convincing, tbh. I think the strongest point you make is the one about the needless complaining about the thread (and maybe a bit about the geript case), but I don't think that is enough to lynch him on. Most of your other points are just comparing him to other players, which is useless and futile. Artanis is not yamato, or rayn, or Sharrant, or me, or VE, or whoever else you compared him to. He's Artanis, and will play like Artanis, not anyone else. And about the "fake" aggression, I just flat out disagree with that whole section. I took a look back at British since people were talking about it, and he does that same kind of thing as town. Calls out a post, then antagonizes people for disagreeing with him or not commenting on it. Then moved on or keeps pressuring it, as appropriate. Overall, I'm not particularly interested in lynching Artanis today. | ||
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On April 08 2013 05:02 geript wrote: Keirathi, how do you feel about VE not really pushing himself to the forefront at all? I already said what I thought about VE. That, at least up until this point, he isn't doing one of his tradition scum tactics. Until he does, I have no interest in lynching him. Not pushing himself to the forefront can be a combination of tons of things that aren't alignment indicative; being busy, uninterested, etc. And hell, even scum VE tries to push himself into the forefront of (most) games. | ||
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On April 08 2013 05:23 geript wrote: Ok Kei, how well do you know Caller. I don't know Caller at all. Never played with him, or read any game that he played in. All i know about him is that he hosts games that never end :o | ||
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I don't think there's anyone worth shooting right now. Not with 28 hours still left in the day. So you still think Artanis is a good lynch? Do you not agree with my counterpoints? | ||
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First: ##Unvote Now, let's talk a bit: On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: 2) That's bullshit. I never said "abandon Geript's plan, it's dumb". I wanted to implement Geript's + Vivax's plan and use them both. Here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=19#362 I don't know why you even bring something this ridiculous up.. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]): Then: On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: TLDR; - Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. | ||
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On April 08 2013 08:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are you unvoting me me if my answers do not please you? BECAUSE I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING JUGGERNAUT, BITCH. No, but in all seriousness, it's because (as I alluded to earlier in the post when I unvoted), I wanted to have a logical conversation. I didn't want you to be on your back foot, so to speak, so that you wouldn't be defensive/etc. I wanted genuine explanations, in short, to decide if I could believe them or not. Not half-ass explanations because you are scared of what you say. I like that post much more, btw. Looking elsewhere for now. | ||
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On April 08 2013 11:25 ObviousOne wrote: Woah are you guys accusing me of thinking? You give me too much credit. Why are you just brushing those points against you off? Particularly the one where you tell people not to spam, then proceed to spam yourself. Explain, please. | ||
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On April 08 2013 12:36 ObviousOne wrote: I am so terribly bored. Caller was exciting for a few minutes I guess. Why should I respond to any of the cases against me? Is it a requirement? My response to them is: lol This is a normal ass normal game. I expected nukes and day-KP and general chaos. Zero fun to be had. So adieu I'm going to watch a movie. I've voted and posted and fulfilled my contractual obligations for day 1. Later. Fuck that attitude. So much. Why are you doing something (in this case, laughing off a case) that you believe is scummy? | ||
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On April 08 2013 12:49 Sharrant wrote: Are you 100% sure that Day vigs have to claim their shot in the thread? Do dayvigs have to claim in the thread? Please be around the thread for the next couple minutes, Mocsta, it's very important to me. They do. It says so in the OP. During the day you may type ##Kill: Player in the thread. That player is going to die and the day goes on. You can only shoot once. | ||
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America, Russia, and Day-Vig are ruled out. I don't see Assassin gambling his power on gonzaw unless he found a lock tight crumb. And, if there is a solid crumb, that (maybe?) opens up the possibility of a BloodC0bbler too. NRA would make some sense, but gonzaw was claiming that he wasn't shooting even as the shot post came up. And who knows how long ago the shot was actually sent in and it took BC to get here and post the death. Meh. Looking back through filters a bit. | ||
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I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote: Keirathi, pls comment on my reversal of sharrant, where he knew that the assassin was the logical choice. Yet didnt even know how day-vig worked etc. I admit it's weird. On April 08 2013 13:10 Sharrant wrote: I feel like you're trying to put suspicion on me, there's a reason I asked in the thread if day vig had to claim his shot. I was unaware of that restriction so thought dayvig could have been in play, but you said it couldn't have been because of the claim. So when Keirathi showed you were indeed correct, it showed that there was only one possible way he could have died, and you had enough information to know that too but you came to the wrong conclusion. Perhaps it was an earnest oversight on your part, but you should have known immediately. The fact you had referenced it so recently but failed to take it into consideration is suspicious. That you're trying to turn this around on me like that makes it doubly so to me. Then why are you not pressuring me? I also said that NRA was a possibility, and I'm the one that told you that day-vig had to type it in thread. But that's mostly irrelevant. The bigger question is why were you thinking so hard about what gonzaw's role was in the post you quoted? | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote: IE Knowing that Gonzaw could not have been dayvigged because there was no shot in the thread, but not knowing that Gonzaw could not have shot because he did not write it in the thread. But you never stated anything similar What? That's exactly what I said, in not so many words. I thought NRA was a perfectly possibly explanation for why gonzaw was dead, meaning that I thought gonzaw shot and hit NRA. You're right, I didn't think about gonzaw having to use a Jack day-vig in the thread, but I said basically the exact same thing mocsta did. On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote: And to answer your question, that was not thinking very hard. It was just fairly obvious as soon as he stated he would most likely withhold his shot. If he had no protection or night shot then he was forced to shoot today or have wasted his role. I think it's pretty simple to deduce from that post. Meh, whatever. This point is hard to argue, I just think it's weird that you put enough thought into it to correctly deduce that he was Jack. Because when I saw all his posts claiming to have day KP, I didn't care at all about what his role was. I personally spent some time trying to figure out if I thought he was town or not, and once I decided that he probably was I quit thinking about his role because it didn't concern me. Just weird. Mental bookmark for later, if needed. | ||
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Sometime I learned from the last 2 games where Oats was town and I lynched him (or at least, really wanted to): when Oats is in your face and every post he makes is annoying and you want to e-punch him, he's probably town. | ||
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1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him. 2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO. 3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him. 4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch. 5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow. Anyways, be back in a few hours. | ||
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On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge. So yea. I brought this up when he first said it. VE flipping scum it even more relevant. And sinani hasn't addressed it yet. Sinani scum. | ||
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Because I went back to LVIII (the only game I've played with him), and his entire contributions to the thread before he died was trying to lynch Palmar (town), marv (town), then callilng Palmar and supersoft (scum) town a bunch. While bitching about the length of the thread, and riding along with the bandwagons. I can't honestly say I expect much from MZ, at least based on that game. | ||
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On April 09 2013 10:27 Vivax wrote: Palmar was town in that game btw. The thing about MZ is that he called Artanis scum and gonzaw's case better than his own while poking others about other players. He tried hard to look like he wasn't making any mistakes with positioning himself. But that's currently pretty much the only thing I paid attention to in his filter. Let's see if we even need to make cases. I know Palmar was town. That's why I put the (town) in parentheses by his name the first time :o FWIW, I think MZ's read progression looks genuine. I have him in the "leaning town" category. As far as poking people about other players: why can that only come from a scum MZ? He asked for opinions from 4 lurkers about 5 players, including Artanis and (his case) Shelvocke. That doesn't seem strictly scum motivated to me. Also he dropped (or at least put on the back burner) his case on Shelvocke to push/make sure people didn't forget about Artanis. This post in particular stands out: On April 08 2013 13:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: we can wifom what scum want us to think by the gonzaw kill from here till kingdom come but we won't get anywhere. Ultimately we need to stick with artanis as he has been consistently scummy and pushed by a now confirmed townie. @Yamato. I'm really tired with you calling me scum and never backing it up, come up with some reasons or shut up. Yea, scum *COULD* do that. But I just feel like its way more likely from a townie, considering Artanis flipped Assassin. And he was concerned about VE. Yea, I would lean town on MZ. So someone explain the scum read to me. | ||
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On April 09 2013 12:10 Shelvocke wrote: Hey Keirathi. I'm not going to ask you again - why were you trying to say I could be the NRA member? For some reason I had you confused with sinani and above VE in the draft order. There was another post I read at the time (maybe austin?) that said something similar, and it just stuck in my head. | ||
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On April 09 2013 12:23 Keirathi wrote: For some reason I had you confused with sinani and above VE in the draft order. There was another post I read at the time (maybe austin?) that said something similar, and it just stuck in my head. EBWOP: Ah, I found it. On April 09 2013 00:56 austinmcc wrote: I like to have fun. In all honesty, I'm considering VE. I still believe shelvocke to be mafia, and I like that lynch a lot. Much of the case on VE is that he hasn't been doing anything, which is NOT something that I expect from mafia-VE, honestly. However, it's not something that I expect from town-VE, especially if geript is telling the truth and SOMEONE up at the top is an NRA member (I agree with the sentiment that if someone at the top took that role, it's likely VE OR shelvocke (again, shelvocke is pretty clearly a smurf and people seem to be overlooking that)). Any reason in particular why I should lynch VE over shelvocke? I had just read that post before I started writing. It just stuck in my head. | ||
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@Mocsta - I semi-disagree about sinani/Shelvocke. I don't think it makes them CONFIRMED town, but I do agree that the amount that Artanis wanted to lynch them compared to the amount he wanted to lynch VE does make it more likely that they are town. At the very least, they aren't good lynch candidates until much later in the game if they happen to still be alive. | ||
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Quit having a shitfit and cluttering the thread with bullshit. | ||
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On April 09 2013 13:03 Mocsta wrote: Kei, In the above. He likes Artanis major scum read: Shelvocke & gives a 50/50 on VE. Considering his position on Artanis: Do you read anything into this? Was watching GoT from last night. Yea, austin looks pretty bad with Artanis and VE being scum. But I haven't put a lot of time looking into him yet. Will definitely do so and get something in the thread before night ends. On April 09 2013 13:41 Mocsta wrote: Kei I am in the midst of some VCA. Did you know you did not vote? Your last action was: ##Unvote Obviously I know :o The day ended like 6 hours early. | ||
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On April 09 2013 13:52 yamato77 wrote: Do not suddenly ignore Sinani, for the love of fucking god. It's so insanely stupid to cross someone out who is OBJECTIVELY SCUMMY just because a scum you lynched said he would lynch him, but never even fucking voted him. Just don't do it. I'm of two trains of thought: 1) sinani is not the kind of player that has thread presence or the ability to direct town around where to go. Circumstantial evidence does point reasonably towards him being town, but again, thats circumstantial evidence at best. If we do leave him alive, he's not going to be a threat even if he is scum, because like I just said, he has no voice. Leaving him until later isn't a terrible idea, no matter what his alignment. 2) Thinking back on it AGAIN, the post that Mocsta quoted is interesting. Look at what it says: On April 08 2013 23:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I've thought about it and I don't like a Sinani lynch at this moment. I'd prefer a vig shot rather than wasting time discussing him since he seems to not be willing to provide any information that would help to find out his alignment. My initial thought when Mocsta requoted it was also that he wanted town to waste KP killing a townie. But there is another explanation. What about bulletproof? Sinani was pick 4 the draft. He's the kind of player that is reasonably likely to be vigged by town. If he's scum, it does kind of make sense for him to pick BP. NRA too, but obviously if he's scum and VE wanted NRA, they could have coordinated. My point is, Artanis was telling town to shoot him rather than lynch him. Maybe it means nothing, but its interesting at least. | ||
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On April 09 2013 21:38 Palmar wrote: And I wrote the assassin and nra = scum analysis. I hate everything about this so much. That entire post was just you rehashing things that had already been said. Geript had told us why VE was probably NRA and probably scum. Yours was just why NRA was probably scum, didn't include who it was. And EVERYONE had already concluded that gonzaw was shot by a scum assassin. Your entire contribution was...nothing new at all. Why are you trying to buy town cred for that, rofl. | ||
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No point arguing about it though. I'm not sure if you trying to act like the superhero townie here for no reason actually makes you more likely to be town or scum or just Palmar with an overinflated ego. So I'll drop it. | ||
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1) MZ: I already said why I think theres a better than average chance that he's town. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18239524 for reference. 2) ObviousOne: I badly wanted to condemn him for the spamming bullshit and not giving a shit about the thread, but his post about Artanis at least showed effort, and came to the right conclusion. The problem is nothing else he's done really shows any effort, when last game he was oozing townie from his pores because of how hard he was trying. Watch for now, lynch later I maybe. 3) Sinani: I hope someone shoots him. The Artanish soft-push towards him DOES point to town, but everything else points to scum. And that fucking "playing it safe" comment still bugs the hell out of me. Reasonably scum. 4) austin: Don't have a ton of time to write this up, but my impressions of austin this game: he was balls to the wall against policy lynching public KP. Which was an understandable position, but something about it just felt like posturing for himself or his teammates to be able to shoot later without getting insta-lynched. Everything else that he's done this game has either been generic advice, or defending Artanis and VE. (and yea, I'm counting the entire push on Shelvocke as a massive chainsaw defense. He was matching gonzaw post for post in the push towards Shelvocke and away from Artanis). My *one* qualm about austin is that he did almost the same thing as town in....LIX? He opposed all the scum lynches, tried to get scum elected as mayor, and pushed townies. But I still say there's a pretty good chance he's scum, because (iirc) austin was still way more inquisitive and "trying to figure the game out'-y than he has been here. Will talk more after the day post if I'm alive. TL;DR Lynch into sinani and austin, IMO. | ||
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On April 10 2013 10:11 Palmar wrote: why wouldn't there be est? my understanding was that you guys moved from est to edt for daylight savings, not that est magically changed? Not exactly. There are basically 5 time zones in North America: AST (Nova Scotia? and the far eastern parts of canada), EST, CST, MST, and PST. During daylight saving time, they are pushed forward one hour, and called ADT, EDT, CDT, MDT, and PDT. Although technically no one actually calls them that at all unless they are trying to sound smart. People just keep calling them the "Standard" versions. | ||
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I don't expect to live through the night tonight, and assassin is already dead. I am a cop. I checked austin last night, and he is town. I was also given the Lie Detector invention. I will use it when it's appropriate and let everyone know the results. | ||
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You haven't mentioned austin a single time this game, and he was helping you push the Shelvocke case. Why did you shoot him? | ||
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On April 10 2013 11:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: The launch is null, I fucked up the formatting, everyone can chill the fuck out. I tried to kill him for the same reason I was gonna try and kill decon if he had lived, he tried to move attention away from artanis. That's not the point AT ALL. You have 36 hours to send in your nuke. Why not talk in the thread a bit first? Why not talk with austin? He's a fairly open guy, and he generally posts a lot. Everything about that shot reeks of "this is an easy shot for me to make and take no flak for when he flips town". Fuck me. | ||
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On April 10 2013 11:49 sinani206 wrote: Not really worth the anti-nuke, tbh. What? Why not? Austin is one of the more active and engaged players in this game. | ||
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On April 10 2013 11:54 Sn0_Man wrote: A) you aren't confirmed town. B) Keirathi just finished COP CHECKING HIM as town. The godfather is dead. There's still the possibility of framer (RO claimed Framer and that he wasn't going to use it...no way to know if he's lying). And Artanis flipped GF Assassin. Does that mean he got to pick 2 roles, or by picking assassin he got a GF bonus? Who knows. My check doesn't make austin confirmed town, but damn near it. | ||
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On April 10 2013 12:04 strongandbig wrote: austin could be, like, scum NKVD agent? From the OP, it doesn't look like NKVD can fake his alignment, only his role. I did an alignment check, not a role check. On April 10 2013 12:26 geript wrote: I'm also betting that Emperor is scum AND that town vote rigger was used D1. That makes the most sense to me right now. If vote rigger was used, we would have had 3 lynches. 2 by vote, then the emperor still gets his own lynch. On April 10 2013 12:25 Bill Murray wrote: I killed Caller btw WHAT THE FLYING FUCK. What is even going on. Goddamnit. | ||
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On April 10 2013 12:32 Bill Murray wrote: Why is everyone mad I killed Caller? He was quite likely scum. No. He wasn't. If he was scum I will literally eat my fucking hat. Why did he use Showtime! (a one time use power) to kill his FUCKING TEAMMATE. It doesn't make sense. You're a fucking idiot, goddamnit. | ||
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But think about this setup. Scum has to pick their roles in a way to use them together as a team. Why would they use Showtime! in that situation? Hint: they wouldn't. Not on the Assassin, one of the strongest roles in the game. And, on top of that. And you didn't even read the thread before you killed him? Seriously? ........................................................ I'm going to go watch TV or something for an hour before I get modkilled for raging. | ||
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Stop talking about it. I'll use it hwen its appropriate and tell you what I get. | ||
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On April 10 2013 14:40 ObviousOne wrote: Do you think MZ launching a nuke makes him scum, especially after much earlier in the game where I was discussing with Keirathi (among others, I remember Kei bringing it up) where I even proposed we insta-lynch anyone who claims America by action? That almost sounds like where we're headed and my idea was shot down immediately before... like I even think he believed that his launch would fail due to his typo but apparently that's not the case. It's his reaction to the shot that makes me weary. He said "Thank god, someone put me out of my misery" or whatever. It *KINDA* makes sense for town; he realized he fucked up, and now is paying for it with his life. Except he didn't try to say sorry again, or apologize to town, or anything of the sort. Which brings us to the scum side. That reaction makes a fair amount of sense for scum; he thought he had the perfect shot on the perfect target that everyone thought was scum, only to have his plan foiled at the last second and him suddenly under a ton of pressure. Being vigged in that situation would almost be a relief, if you were scum, because you quit having to participate and potentially incriminate your teammates. Either way, I kind of think he has to be lynched. For one, i told whoever picked America that they were going to held 100% accountably for their shots. MZ just got all trigger happy for no reason. And secondly, if he is town, he already proved that he can't be trusted with his power. He just nuked somoene 10 minutes into the day with very, very little discussion about said player. | ||
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On April 10 2013 14:58 ObviousOne wrote: Perversely his nuke makes sense if he was going to do it through his lead of people diverting the Artanis lynch but I can see the need for going through with the lynch policy in the long run. Can't say "oh we have this policy but just not in this instance" because then its not a policy. Yeah... Sour. I want to believe. Well, the policy isn't even really the point. I never expected to enforce the policy, especially with the number of vets/ballsy "I dont give a fuck" players in this game. The real idea behind it was to try to bully "weaker"/newer players into not using the shot if they were town out of fear. As for the bolded part, I 100% agree with you that the target of his nuke makes perfect sense from a townie perspective. It's the TIMING of the nuke that doesn't. He has 36 hours from the day post to launch his nuke, and it only detonates at the end of the day. Why do it now? It just doesn't make rational sense. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18232387 Why would a scum make that post? Why not see what town decides to do after the gonzaw flip to decide if you need to hard bus? I mean, Artanis was the fkn Assassin, which is arguably one of the strongest roles in the game (ironically, Jack is one of the few roles I would rate higher than Assassin, and the assassin killed him and he killed the assasin [in a way]). That makes even less sense than a townie insta-nuking austin as the day starts. Fuck that nuke. Making the game even harder to rationalize. | ||
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On April 10 2013 15:31 Sn0_Man wrote: Well if BM isn't full of shit then caller was already bussing artanis for credit in which case a scum M_Z would know about it and do the same. I don't think thats the case because BM is so far looking like he's loopy, but its apparently a possibility. It seems like BM's whole reason for thinking Caller was scum was because Janitor was used. Deconduo already claimed Janitor becuase Mocsta claimed shooting him. It's pretty unlikely that decon was town, because 1) why would town pick janitor in slot 19? They have no reason to suspect its open, when half of the game revolved around telling early pickers to counterpick if they weren't sure they could use their roles well. Only scum picking that late would really think it might be open because they could coordinate. (Also possible that decon was another role, and claimed janitor instead of a teammate, just to fuck with us.) and 2) Why would a town janitor use the fucking ability at all? It is a 100% anti-town ability that serves no purpose in town hands. Decon is not on idiot. Not sure if BM is just bad for shooting the towniest person in the game, or if he's scum. Neither would surprise me nearly as much as Caller actually being scum and me being wrong about this. | ||
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On April 10 2013 15:46 Bill Murray wrote: keirathi, i love how you're saying MY reasoning no, that is not MY reasoning I have reasoning you wouldn't even begin to fathom... you know.. .the kind that can lead to clear town but since you're scum you won't realize that im going to keep my vote on you for the rest of this game, and I am 100% killing you if I don't die tonight If you have reasoning that can lead to a clear town, then why aren't you sharing it? | ||
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On April 10 2013 15:41 yamato77 wrote: Based on flavor, Rayn is the mafia out of the group if people that died last night. I'd also be willing to bet that there's still a town justice vig alive, as I don't think Palmar picked that role. Explain. | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:01 Mocsta wrote: Kei i like your idea.decon feign janitor to hide that a live scum is vt only by using jan power very feasible. As the move to claim jan is weird in itself i would bet a left nut this is the real story I wouldn't go that far. Role Cop would out the real Janitor so fast as scum. I mean, it would anyways for using the power night 1, but doubly so in this case because decon would have been lying for him. | ||
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Although maybe scum picked Role Cop to go along with their Assassin, so they wouldn't be scared of it. That seems like a weird scum strategy though. NRA, Janitor, and Role Cop? That's a lot of roles that could have been direct KP. | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:09 Mocsta wrote: Kei as i asked before if we voting mz to clear all doubt with double lynch do we swap out oo or sinani? I'm not so sure I want to lynch MZ right now. I need to think about it overnight. We have plenty of time, and the Lie Detector gives us options. | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:18 Bill Murray wrote: Yeah, no. You're not directing the town. I am killing you tonight, unless you prove to me you are town. Rofl, okay buddy. You go on shooting townies. I bet scum love you even if you're not one of them. | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:21 Bill Murray wrote: I don't want to lynch Sn0_Man [snip] lynch sinani and sno_man Does not compute. | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:22 Bill Murray wrote: if i wasnt roleblocked or caller hider he was scum On April 10 2013 16:22 Bill Murray wrote: but hey if you're town you have nothing to worry about Ohhhh, I get it now | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:46 yamato77 wrote: It's not teh best idea, but it's better than trying to rely on nullish reads that I had on Deconduo and Rayn The better idea is to play like we still have 3 scum alive and just be happy if the game ends after fewer than 3 are killed | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:49 yamato77 wrote: Do you think Rayn or Palmar picked compulsive justice vigi? If not, I'm 100% certain a scum was shot last night. No, I don't think either of them did. Why are you so certain, though? | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:53 yamato77 wrote: Because otherwise, the vigi would have killed himself? There are other ways. Scum hider, scum bulletproof, medic, jailer, roleblocker, etc that could have caused justice vigi not to die. | ||
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On April 10 2013 16:56 Mocsta wrote: Anyways i asked this before no response so bringing it back to the fore. Noone has claimed rayn kill. Why rayn over sno? Afterall jon snow must die!! But seriously if rayn was scum killed. He had no prescence. So i surmise it was an awesome role snipe attempt. why leave sno.. And an answer. Becauae someone stupid will come up with this theory to justify sno lynch isnt good.enough. I played with town sno before. And he doesnt feel the.same to me. I couldnt read.him before due to low activity but now he has some posts. Different story. He is mainly focused on irrelevant matters. Hs trying to look like scum hunting. But isnt. Thoughts? If I had to hazard a guess, I would say probably that scum was trying to hit the inventor (if indeed they shot rayn and not some townie). Rayn seemed sort of interested in the role, and sn0 didn't at all. And rayn seemed to be hinting at inventor at the end of the night, so who knows if he actually was or not. As far as a read on sn0, I haven't played with him before, but objectively I feel like he's probably town. Things like this stand out to me: On April 09 2013 02:58 Sn0_Man wrote: "Hey Sn0 give us a read on every person in the thread" no fuck you I don't like big games. I think Sinani is the best lynch today and there is my vote. Other people I don't like (but don't expect to lynch either) include oatsmaster and to an extent bill murray. I joined this PYP because its PYP so hopefully some interesting stuff happens tonight. I'm more interested in cool roles and interactions and that stuff and less interested in the traditional mafia scumhunt. I've played all my games with an eye towards solving stuff (with logic and blue roles) rather than having good reads on people. This is his first game outside of the newbies. Nothing about this post reads like a scared scum playing outside his depths. It 100% reads like a townie. And this: On April 09 2013 06:04 Sn0_Man wrote: @Austin: Vivax e-famous for making no sense All my relevant posts are in a short period I recommend you read that period rather than from filter because context is important. Either way, the comment on VE was when there were essentially 2 candidates (VE/Artanis) and I felt VE was a better lynch. Later, I very clearly said VE is NULL to me but a better lynch than most purely for information purposes. So I was willing to vote VE but didn't see him as scummy. Some other people mentioned going after Sinani/Shelvocke so I poked through their filters and decided Sinani was the best lynch. I still think oats looks bad but there is no movement to lynch him so I'm leaving that read on the backburner. I don't waltz into a thread and demand answers after posting essentially nothing for 48 hours, and I don't try to "lead" people whose play I respect. Again, in the context of a newbie just out of his newbie games and playing in the big leagues, this doesn't make sense as a scum post. He sees that he was wrong about Artanis and VE (to an extent). He's not making apologies for it, or trying to fix his mistake. He's just calmly explaining himself. Yea, pretty sure that guy is town. | ||
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On April 10 2013 17:14 Mocsta wrote: Kei i think u giving too much newbie cred check out the scum.qt in newbie 38 he replaced in and was very excited to roll scum in the newbies he tried to be a leadwr. Sthe heuristics u taking dont really apply to ppl like that. I was excited to roll scum my first time too (against marv, no less). And I was a town leader of sorts in that game. That doesn't mean that I went around spouting off to people. It's about the attitude behind the posts, though. Everything about them says "I'm a townie who isn't being afraid or careful with what I say". Hell, you like to think you are one of those people who are balls-to-the-wall as scum. But in Hydra, that was the first thing I picked up about you that made me think you were scum: you were willing to get into arguments, sure, but when it came time to get out of them, you felt really...diplomatic. Appeasing, you could say. Like you were playing it safe. These posts don't fit that style at all. They're just blunt and tot he point. No fucks are given. Pretty sure he's town. | ||
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Pretty sure Sharrant is scum. Look at these posts: On April 07 2013 06:43 Sharrant wrote: Hi, Viscera. I'm pretty much null on your actions, so I want you to help me. Now, the reason I'm null on you is because I know I can't read you. Last game we played I thought I had a slam dunk case on you, and you were town. Now I might be reaching with this, but I want you to help me talk about Keirathi. See, just a short while ago there was talk about why Keirathi was scum, I think there're some really valid points in there. And I think a few others saw it too, but then suddenly the town was dragged off of this and into a spammy little brawl focused on antogonizing you and painting you as scum. Maybe you're scum, maybe you're not, but the way the thread has turned suggests to me you're not. This feels more to me like you're getting attacked the same way that caused Marvellosity to explode when he was town in a recent game. So I want you to talk to me about Keirathi, who after being called out has dissapeared after the cases on him, and I just want your opinion on Rayne because frankly I'm not quite sure how to read him. Do you think this could be mafia Keirathi's team trying to drag the town away from him after he got caught by causing a spammy mess on day 1? Do you think this is more likely town getting in an argument that is not indicative of Keirathi's alignment? And then your opinion on Keirathi himself and Rayne would be great., thank you. In the pre-game. I think he was actually trying here to do what he claimed was happening with me. I think he was trying to draw attention away from VE and give VE and out by pushing sentiment back towards me. On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote: Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler + He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote: So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote: @rayn: good, you're back First: ##Unvote Now, let's talk a bit: What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Then: geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. ##Unvote: Keirathi Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. Deflecting away from Artanis. On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote: @StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote: Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again? Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone. Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote: I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote: EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote: If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote: WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote: RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone. Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote: Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote: ... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote: So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote: Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home. Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote: Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote: Undertaker 21-0 GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote: Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs. Or I'll Do This Just To Explain Why It's Annoying And Difficult To Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote: @Mocsta <3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOne You can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum. Chainsaw Artanis. But I think this is the kicker: On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote: I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin. It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. This was almost immediately after the gonzaw shot. At the time, Mocsta and I (and maybe a few others), were floundering a bit about what role killed gonzaw. In strolls Sharrant being 100% sure it was an assassin kill (and remember, he's been hard defending the actual assassin). Keep reading a bit after that and see how the rest of the conversation went down. He tried to flip it to make Mocsta scummy, and he seemed to have put an extraordinary amount of thought into gonzaw being Jack before he flipped for a "townie". So yea, Sharrant is scum. And with that, I sleeps. G'nite! | ||
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1 last thing. I think we have 2 scum between Sharrant, sinani, and Vivax. Maybe OO. I think our lynch candidates for the day should be out of them. I'm going to drop my vote on Sharrant and sinani, and we can talk tomorrow. | ||
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Notice that Sharrant said the exact same thing that Artanis said: "sinani is scummy but don't lynch him. Shoot him." Weird, no? | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:51 Sharrant wrote: Hi, Keirathi. If VE was my scum buddy, do you think he would've responded to my post? Because he never did. The reason I brought it up to him is twofold: pretty much absolutely nobody read my case on you, or if they did, nobody commented on it, and the conversation of the thread shifted immediately away from you. And I don't know how to read VE, like I said, I thought I made a slam dunk case about him last game, but he was town. As you can read in that post, I did not expect both of you to be scum, so I wanted his opinion on you, and to help foster some discussion because his response to the game was to stick his head in the sand. After he didn't respond I pretty much gave up on him because there was more important stuff going on in the thread, and he would either start playing, or he would likely get shot. I can't speak for what VE would or wouldn't have done if he was your teammate. What I can speak of is that VE, by his own admission, wasn't really reading the thread, or really responding to anything. Why would this case have been any different if you happened to be teammates? From the way he played, and his role, it seems pretty obvious to me that he was hoping to skirt by just enough during the day to survive the lynch, and then take out anyone who tried to investigate or vig him. On April 11 2013 00:51 Sharrant wrote: Why did I defend Artanis? Because he read townie to me and he was a serious lynch candidate. He read townie to me not just for the reasons I gave in that post you quoted, but because he was the only person who seemed to be reading and responding to my posts. He genuinely seemed to be involved in the game, and read as if he was in a similar position to me in the early game: A townie that seems to oft be ignored by the thread unless something sparks particular interest from the thread. Being wrong isn't a crime. But when I look at that big post about Artanis, I don't really see you addressing any of gonzaw's points. Every quote you quoted is just calling Artanis townie for his pre-game plans. Anyways, this was the weakest part of my case against you. It just feels like a typical scum defending a scumbuddy, though, because you gloss over the scummy parts to only talk about the things that might make him town. On April 11 2013 00:51 Sharrant wrote: As for the "chainsaw defense" thing, that's particularly scummy for you. I was asked by another player to read Obvious One's filter, and comment on it. So that's what I did. If you had read the thread and not cherry picked the quote you would know that. Now if you have something that you would like to dispute with the case, talk to me about it. Now, this is an interesting response. Yes, you were specifically asked by another player to read OO. But, what exactly did S&B ask? On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote: so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Except, in your entire post, you never talk about OO's post about Artanis. Why not? That seems like a pretty huge part of OO's filter, and should be a decent way for you to get a read on him. I mean, OO apparently did a lot of meta research and concluded that your strongest town read was scum. Why ignore it and only talk about other things? Another interesting point is that you seemed quite able to go read meta. Hell, all of your case on me and subsequent retraction of said case was a meta "feel" read. So the first part of your attack on OO seems strange: On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote: This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. You didn't go check of OO makes those kinds of posts as town or scum? Why not? Ironically, this section is doing exactly what you're accusing OO of; you give a quick overview of something, but you don't actually say what you think about it. It's just "airy". (And yes, I know you are calling him scum later. My point is, what is the point of this section? You don't say whether that post in particular makes him scum or not. It doesn't add to the case). All that combined is why I called your push on OO a "chainsaw" defense. On April 11 2013 00:51 Sharrant wrote: Yep, I was pretty much 100% sure, but not as you stated 100% sure. There's a difference. Again you go with your "extraordinary" amount of thought. He made it about as obvious as BM made his own role at the start of today. You could glance at his posts and tell what he was, if you think the fact that I'm trying to determine other people's selections is scummy, that's fine. I do it because I want to know as much as I possibly can. I was using your words, not my own. And again, it wasn't obvious to ME because I just didn't care. But I digress, this is sort of a pointless argument. It's just an interesting tidbit that you seemingly knew gonzaw's role before he flipped, and were certain that the shot came from an assassin. Do you not agree that this looks fishy from my end? On April 11 2013 00:51 Sharrant wrote: I'm going to give your filter a re-read, and read some of your past games later. I want to know if you cherry pick as both alignments. Please do. I've been quite wrong myself this game. As far as cherry picking....what do you want me to do, quote your entire filter? I gave the posts that were most relevant to making my point: That you are scum. | ||
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So you do not believe my claim either? | ||
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So you think I'm scum, claiming a cop check on my scumbuddy austin, who's also claiming a cop check on our other scumbuddy sn0? How are you so tunneled on austin that you can't see that that would be the stupidest mafia play ever? | ||
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Is the BC day vig public? | ||
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On April 11 2013 04:38 Sn0_Man wrote: PS deconduo like has to be scum doesn't he? Like, seriously. He HAS to be. Nobody is that dumb are they? That would mean very very few scum left but I'm leery. Deconduo sounded serious (if he was scum he should KNOW that claim gets him lynched, with scumbuddies and all). I honestly don't know why a scum decon would use Janitor at all. Especially on the first night when there's likely to be the most KP flying around, and some controversial players killed with town KP. But, I also have no fucking clue why a scum decon would claim that he was janitor before he died? Why not keep it quiet and make everyone think that there are still 3 scum left? Neither makes sense. | ||
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On April 11 2013 04:40 yamato77 wrote: And which role creates this "recruiting mason" thing you're talking about, again? Serious? Recruiting Mason - You are the recruiting mason and you love pm networks. After all rolepicks are distributed you will be partnered with 1 person in a pm network. Then every night you will randomly add 1 more player into your pm network (so you will start with a 2 man network before day 1 starts, then add 1 more every night). Everyone will know who is in the network and everyone in the network can pm one another or the entire group (or you can just use a quicktopic), and anyone can be in it, town or mafia. | ||
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On April 11 2013 04:35 Sn0_Man wrote: Right now my biggest questions are Bill Murray (everything about him is so WTF?) So I was thinking about BM some more because of this post. BM almost HAS to be town. What do we know? 1) BM claims Justice Vigi who shot Caller 2) Caller died, BM still alive 3) yamato claimed he tried to take justice vigi. 4) Justice Vigi is 100% not a mafia role. They can't shoot townies with it. So what does that mean? First off, if BM was lying but yamato isn't, then why hasn't the real JV counterclaimed BM yet? So yea, not likely at all, IMO. The only way BM is not JV is if him and yamato BOTH lied. Why would scum link themselves together in a lie like that? If BM ever flips anything other than JV, it outs yamato as lying. If yamato ever flips anything other than VT (and especially if he flips scum non-VT), it makes BM's claim questionable. Maybe not auto-lynch worthy (because scum yamato could have thought about the implications of lying about JV to make BM possibly look bad later but I don't find that very likely at all), but worth looking into. | ||
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Information incoming Soon(TM*), say tuned. *Soon is a registered trademark of the Blizzard Entertainment Company. | ||
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Information will still come, regardless! | ||
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sinani206: you are being called in for questioning about your links tot he mafia syndicate. You shall be subject to a thorough Lie Detector Test. Remember, only answer using a simple Yes or No. Question 1: On April 07 2013 05:22 sinani206 wrote: VE are you going to take this game seriously or not? Because if you aren't, I have no qualms with lynching you. Is this the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? "Yes" Question 2: On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge. Was this a scumslip? In that you had to play it safe because you didn't want to look bad after you knew VE would flip scum? "No." Question 3: On April 08 2013 06:46 sinani206 wrote: gonzaw are you going to claim exactly what your role is? Was this an attempt to rolefish so that your scumbuddy, Mr. Artanis the Assassin, could kill gonzaw? "No." Question 4: On April 10 2013 11:43 sinani206 wrote: K this numbered shit is dumb. I could see MZ just as having messed up, but that was a really, REALLY stupid nuke. With a double lynch, I guess we could kill him and someone else, but I'd prefer to actually try to kill scum. This quote seems to indicate that you KNOW that one Mr. Meapak_Ziphh is town, rather than just suspect. Is that true? "No." Question 5: On April 10 2013 11:49 sinani206 wrote: Not really worth the anti-nuke, tbh. This seems to indicate at the time that you felt that Mr. Austin wasn't worth saving, despite the green check. Is that because you are scum and therefore scared of Mr. Austin? "No". Very well, sinani206. Sit tight. We'll have the results soon. ![[image loading]](http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/07-10-10images/lie_detection_02.jpg) BEEPBOOPBEEPBOOPBEEPBOOPBEEPBOOPBEEPBOOPBEEPBOOP Well, well, well. Looks like we have some results. So how do you think you did Mr. Sinani? "I am telling the truth." We'll see about that. Let's take a look at your chart, eh? ![[image loading]](https://antipolygraph.org/graphics/chart-sample-01.jpg) Steady, rhymic pulse. Normal perspiration. All-in-all, it does look like you are telling the truth. Very well, my Sinani, you may go. Thanks for your time. VERDICT: INNOCENT (Yes, that means he's town) + Show Spoiler [Explanation] + Sorry, all this was just RP for funsies. The Lie Detector isn't really a Lie Detector at all. It's just a day DT check, with a few conditionals. It could only be used on the person leading the vote count, and it could only be used if that person had at least 5 votes. I decided to check sinani since he's borderline unreadable, and doing it now gives the thread plenty of time to discuss an alternate candidate if he is town. If he's scum, then awesome. ##Unvote: sinani206 | ||
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ObviousOne strongandbig Sharrant Vivax Any lynch outside of these 4 today is a waste, IMO. I'm leaning towards Sharrant and Vivax right now. | ||
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We know that VE was NRA, and Artanis was Assassin. It would make a lot of sense for scum to come in and vote VE, who wasn't doing anything, to try to save their assassin since it's one of the stronger roles in the game and some direct KP. That in itself is not enough reason for a vote, but its an interesting perspective on the possibility of a bus. | ||
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On April 11 2013 08:34 Mocsta wrote: Kei What do u make of snb and his fake invention post? Do u think he gave u the lie detector? Is that action in itself enough to consider him town? I don't think so personally I doubt very seriously that Inventor fell to #7 in the draft. I think S&B was just having fun. | ||
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On April 11 2013 08:29 geript wrote: Again... 'confirmed' scum Caller (2-3-4 same as S&B), VE (10), Artanis (11). I think Austin, Sn0 and RO are very interesting. I highly doubt at this point that scum paired up on numbers. Again: do you think that I am scum? | ||
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EBWOP: And anyways, that makes your plan fall apart. If I am scum and calling Austin town, then that means that Austin and I both picked 8 together as scum. Stop it with your conspiracy theories. Austin is (most likely) town because of my check. Sn0 is most likely town because of austin's check and my analysis of him before the check was made public. | ||
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On April 11 2013 08:50 Vivax wrote: Imo the invention is fake or has been created by scum, and the result is unreliable. From the OP: You can't give yourself anything, and you must tell me how your invention works so I can PM the other player (you cannot trick them to how the invention works). So you can choose not to believe me if you want, but the check is legit. On April 11 2013 08:50 Vivax wrote: The inventor's choice to give it to keirathi rather than someone like geript who played a huge role during D1's lynches makes it questionable. + Show Spoiler + Lie detectors don't exist, they're just used by psychologists to trick people. On another note, there's nothing stopping Keirathi from fakeclaiming a correct (?) DT check on the almost dead austin, and it happened right around the time where MZ shot the nuke. Keirathi actually claimed at this time 11:24 and this time 11:26, and MZ shot during 11:27. Do you see any purpose in Keirathi not playing like a smart cop and blowing up his cover to say austin is town, rather than wait to see if he's even getting lynched during the day? I don't, I think there's a decent chance this might be scum powerplay. Yes, it is possible that I am making a powerplay in conjunction with sinani and Meapak. Honestly anyone who isn't looking at my play critically is just not putting in their due dilligence; I was wrong about artanis, and indecisive about VE. I've played quite poorly in that regard. My check and claim on austin was not a poor decision though. I made it quite clear that austin was my top suspect towards the end of the night. If I came in and started defending austin after the day post, it would have been effectively the same thing as a claim. And besides, austin is a major thread presence, and I wanted people to be able to look at his thoughts and opinions as genuine. | ||
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On April 11 2013 10:01 geript wrote: we should make this a single lynch by everyone putting one vote on Austin Why? | ||
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On April 11 2013 10:53 geript wrote: Sharrant not likely scum. Shelvocke not likely scum. OO not likely scum. MZ is a big ?? Best lynch of those 4. Why not OO? You seem to be overly reliant on this "scum didn't double pick" heuristic. OO didn't double pick with anyone as far as I can tell. Earlier you said "There are likely exactly 2 scum within the people who picked 1-5", which includes OO, except you never talked about him again. | ||
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On April 11 2013 11:06 geript wrote: Caller and Sinani pushed OO iirc as an alternate lynch D1. Why do you care who sinani pushed? | ||
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On April 11 2013 11:25 Vivax wrote: Wait why was Caller scum? Sorry but it seems like I missed something and reading thread 2 hard. Bill Murray claimed Justice Vig, and that he shot Caller last night. BM is still alive today, and Caller is dead. Yamato claimed that he tried to pick JV too, but got vanilla. | ||
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On April 11 2013 11:34 Bill Murray wrote: ninja'ed by geript. i am being misrepresented here. i don't want to quote the person who I'm talking about in between pages 129 and now, however Wait, are you saying you aren't Justice Vig? | ||
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There are a few weird things in his filter: On April 06 2013 00:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: For the record I'm not a fan of anybody with kp just blowing shit up as they please, however what I'm saying is that hitting a townie as a vig by itself is not enough to just kill someone. People are stupid and townies make mistakes. Obviously scum can say they made a mistake but if they're scum then that vig shot won't be the only thing they've done wrong. Why did he tell people not to just blow shit up, then proceed to blow shit up without any discussion? However, the rest of the post isn't alignment indicative. On April 07 2013 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: VE: holy crap how many times have I seen VE mislynched for doing almost exactly the same thing. His more recent posts about not caring about the game are like textbook VE. Yes I will concede, there is a very good case on him, but you all need to understand my own personal history with VE: I've been that guy who railroaded a d1 lynch against town VE before and I can tell you, it's really easy. idk what it is about VE but he's like the biggest lynch bait currently playing. . An odd defense of VE in hindsight, but I can see a townie making this post too. Minorly scummy. And the strangest thing is his reaction to Shelvocke "shooting" him. He seemed quite repentant after the nuke, but once Shelvocke used the ##Shoot: Meapak, MZ seemed to be...almost happy that he was dying. On April 10 2013 12:50 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Oh good shevlocke gonna put me out of my misery Why? Demoralized scum after 2 (or 3 or 4) of his teammates are dead? Or town who just realized he dun goofed and felt bad? Then there are the things that point towards town: On April 08 2013 01:18 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Gonzaw <3 I had forgotten about Artanis/hadn't felt like I had enough evidence to go after him. That part that really rang a bell for me was that He's made a few posts that are like three paragraphs long so they look like a solid post but in fact don't say anything... my dear old friend CWC (contributing without contributing) doing work. I'd like more people to comment on my shevlocke case which, while I feel it is weaker than the artanis case, is my number two suspect. I also feel that vivax is scummy, however he's like number three on my list. Two people I want opinions on are Strongandbig and sharrant. Not sure what to make of either of them atm. This is one of his weaker "townie" posts. He calls Artanis his top read because of how good gonzaw's case is, but still trying to get opinions on other people and not trying very hard to push Artanis. On April 08 2013 09:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I actually am starting to feel this might be the case. My previous read on VE was based on the activity level and contributions at the time I had read the thread. Now it's been uncharacteristically long since I've seen him in the thread and like Palmar says, VE is more likely to be scum when he isn't here as much. VE I'm gonna need some good quality reads out of you as well as some serious contribution or I'm gonna start thinking you don't care. And if you don't care then you're scum. On April 08 2013 13:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: we can wifom what scum want us to think by the gonzaw kill from here till kingdom come but we won't get anywhere. Ultimately we need to stick with artanis as he has been consistently scummy and pushed by a now confirmed townie. @Yamato. I'm really tired with you calling me scum and never backing it up, come up with some reasons or shut up. The first post on its own is kind of meh, but combined with the second post, this is where I get most of my townie read on MZ. Between VE being NRA but doing absolutely nothing, and Artanis being Assassin and getting a gonzaw kill and starting to participate more, I truly think scum were probably pushing for VE over Artanis. I just think an active assassin was probably stronger than NRA, especially since VE had already been partly outed by geript even before gonzaw was killed. Look at how hard the wagon starts swinging to VE once Caller says that he is killing Artanis. I just think that it's unlikely that a scum MZ would be pushing a scum Artanis over a scum VE in this specific situation. I honestly think its more likely that he is town than scum. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 11 2013 14:01 yamato77 wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&user=286833 ALSO That link there is a fresh mafia filter from our friendly neighborhood Oatsmaster. Who thinks it's full of good information about his scum meta? I DO! Might be worth lynching him with Meapak. Meh, Oats is Recruiting Mason. That's an extremely weak scum pick in this situation, IMO. I'm not interested in lynching Oats. | ||
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On April 11 2013 14:34 Mocsta wrote: Kei The last bit of the mz analysis Where u say scum prefer ve over art for lynch Implicates snb heavily As town he isnt scared to make early cases. E.g. Personality2 with his case 8hrs in on oatsmaster. And he stands by his cases. Here he has done.nothing. And went.aboard at a very opportune time. I realize that it implicates S&B. Notice how I have S&B in my "We should be lynching into these 4 people" list after I checked sinani? :o | ||
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On April 11 2013 14:48 geript wrote: Why check Sinani instead of Sharrant? A couple of intertwined reasons. First, I could only check people who had at least 5 votes, AND they highest number of votes. Arranging it onto Sharrant without explaining the item before I used it would have been difficult. Secondly, Sharrant, while not posting a lot, at least comes around and writes up large posts. He has a decent amount of material to read through to get an opinion about. He answers questions and (seemingly) keeps up with the thread. Sinani, on the other hand....just does whatever the hell it is that sinani does. Most of his filter is a random tunnel on BM. The points that we brought up that made him scummy were never addressed, and the only things pointing towards him being town were WIFOM arguments from scum who have flipped. He was just more unreadable. | ||
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I want to ask you a question. As soon as you reply to this post, I will post the question. You have exactly 2 minutes to answer it, or I will push for your lynch or shot with everything that I have. Please reply when ready. | ||
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On April 11 2013 15:57 geript wrote: Vanilla Townie Okay. I was thinking about my analysis on MZ earlier, and how I think that scum losing an inactive NRA would have been a better outcome than losing an active Assassin. So I was reading through the passage again, and I had thought that you outing VE as NRA came before the gonzaw case. But it came after, which makes me a bit suspicious. I'll think about it while I sleep. G'nite. | ||
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Yea, no way me+austin+S&B are all alignment cops. I'll go first: NKVD | ||
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They are literally the only people left that I don't have solid reasons why they are town. | ||
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On April 12 2013 01:52 austinmcc wrote: You like vivax for scum? Also on my list...mocsta. Yea, I think Vivax is quite possibly scum. As far as Mocsta....meh. I wouldn't be *SUPER* surprised if he's scum, but I've had a town read on him the entire game. He's playing like I normally see him play as town; loud, abrasive, arguing all the wrong things, but (seemingly) genuinely thinking about the game in his own weird way. | ||
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On April 12 2013 02:02 Vivax wrote: Keirathi spit out a case on me or fuck off, thanks. Don't need you joining the most silent bandwagon in the thread where people say "Vivax scum just because", that's sketchy as shit. It's partly process of elimination, partly the convenient roleclaim, partly your interactions VE, and partly how hard you tried to wheedle sn0's role out of him. I just don't see much in your filter that I directly contribute to town. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't, but like I said, you're one of the last 3 people I don't have solid reasons for thinking that they are town. | ||
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My problem with your narrative is that I think if scum could have gotten the lynch switched over to VE, then Artanis may have actually looked better today with a scum already flipped. AND they would still have a direct use KP. Maybe Artanis would have still gotten lynched today, but he almost certainly would have gotten another shot off too. I just think it would have been in scum's best interest to start pushing towards VE rather than Artanis. | ||
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On April 12 2013 02:32 austinmcc wrote: I would have been convinced that someone would shoot/check artanis overnight. At the very least, even if someone does something to VE to confirm him being NRA, it means an additional townie kill, whether he gets lynched D2 or not. Someone visiting VE overnight much better for scum than someone visiting Artanis, no matter whether they're visiting with a bullet or a check. The problem is that VE was already outed as quite possibly NRA. No one would have visited him. It would have been beyond dumb. I know that even if VE hadn't been lynched, I sure as hell wouldn't have checked him. For all intents and purposes, he was useless to the scum team with his role outed. And, if someone visited Artanis with a check instead of a shot, then he still has time during the day today to shoot someone. As long as he does it before he gets day-vigged. Geript had already claimed VT, RO had claimed framer, and its possible scum drafted a role cop too. He would have just needed to shoot as soon as the day started, and he was already more useful alive than VE would have been. | ||
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On April 12 2013 02:34 yamato77 wrote: Not to sound too impulsive, but if you want to shoot, make it between him and BM. One of them is almost certainly mafia, I feel, if not both. What the actual fuck? How can BM be scum if he picked JV? Which you also supposedly picked, but got VT? If he flips scum, you 100% die tomorrow for lying. | ||
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On April 12 2013 02:41 Sn0_Man wrote: Anybody who died N1 could be JV... (okay probably not caller) Not decon either. He was either the Janitor like he claimed, or he was scum and knew who the Janitor was. Rayn: unlikely pick at #2. Palmar: maybe. I doubt it, but its a possibility. I honestly think Palmar was Emperor. | ||
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On April 12 2013 02:45 austinmcc wrote: KEIRATHI WHY ARE WE NOT MIND-MELDED ON MOCSTA. AND WHY DID MZ SHOOT ME IN THE FAAAAAAAAAAAACE. :o It was a poor shot, and I was extremely saddened. | ||
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He has a green check. I had a pretty strong town read on him even before the town check. I would bet my left nut that he's town. Stop it. | ||
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Meh, I still just can't think of Mocsta as scum in this game. I just played with scum Mocsta in Hydra, and he doesn't really "feel" the same at all. A slim possibility of scum, but I think he's town. | ||
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On April 12 2013 03:12 Vivax wrote: I don't care about mocsta either way. OO best lynch, he scum tryin to look good with his cases but no interest whatsoever in pursuing what he claims to believe. I basically agree with this. We lynch OO and Sharrant today. Everything that I've talked to OO personally about in the last few weeks has been trying to improve his game to be a better player. You can see the effort towards that front in Red Team. None (or I guess, very little) similar effort here. On April 12 2013 03:15 yamato77 wrote: How the fuck do I know what he picked? I do have a theory that would implicate one or the other, but that would require them both cooperating with the role-claim plan that's not happening. He's been soft-claiming JV since the early part of the day. And if someone else is JV, why didn't they counter the soft claim? Who did they shoot last night? Etc. On April 12 2013 03:17 austinmcc wrote: What do you mean by this, and by your comment about Ego or whatever? If you played differently in Ego than another scum game of yours, that supports the idea that there is no single way that a player plays scum --> i.e. scumMocsta is not necessarily passive mocsta. Also, what is this number of games thing? As best I can tell, mocsta played...one game in between those two at most? It's okay to look at game x but not a game that's two games behind x? It's okay to look at someone's MOST recent scumgame, but not their second most recent? I think what Oats is getting at is that Mocsta's playstyle has evolved a bit the more that he's played. Not just as scum, but the more he plays in general. Although I do agree with you that scum Mocsta is perfectly capable of playing an outspoken/abrasive scum game. I just don't think that THIS is that game. Also: fkn thunderstorms knocking my power out repeatedly while I'm trying to post....FU. | ||
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On April 12 2013 03:22 Vivax wrote: ##Nuke: Player. You must nuke 12 hours or more before day ends. Nukes land at the end of the day. Feel free to launch your first nuke without any warning. I'm pretty sure the bolded part is in there because in some other game, someone used a nuke like 10 seconds into day 1 and people were pretty upset about it. I think that part isn't saying that the nuke is "silent" or "stealth" or whatever, just that you don't have to fear mod action is you use it silly. | ||
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On April 12 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote: LET'S LYNCH MEAPAK No. | ||
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He's not a threat today. He's not a threat tonight. If he uses his nuke again tomorrow, kill him then. Or hell, someone kill him tonight. He's not a better lynch than OO or Sharrant, though. | ||
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So, if BM is JV, he has to shoot tonight. He'll either hit scum, or die. If he's alive tomorrow with no scum dead, then he's probably scum, and then either one of rayn/palmar was JV and the other was emperor, or yam was lying and is scum too. | ||
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On April 12 2013 05:32 strongandbig wrote: actually you're kind of right - claiming "i'm one of these roles" is pretty scummy since it gives him outs if people claim some of those roles later. He also said he breadcrumbed it. I mean, maybe he breadcrumbed all 3, but it at least gives some credence to the fact that he was thinking about it before the mass-claim plan started. | ||
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On April 12 2013 05:37 austinmcc wrote: We'll see. It's possible that the crumbs are him noting he's gonna shoot someone. If he just crumbed the shot/KP, then it's still a scummy announcement, especially as one reason he seems to not want to claim is that BC could be lurking, when he wants to pretend he might be BC despite the fact that he almost certainly could not have known deconduo's role at that point in the game. Yes, but I found a post that I think is his crumb. I hope he comes to clear it up soon, though. | ||
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On April 12 2013 07:25 geript wrote: 1. Because I'm sure he's scum 2. Because no one else believes me 3. Because you've been treating him like confirmed town when he's anything but completely differently from me who you also consider to be confirmed town despite the fact that his only actual townie points are a green check 4. He's scum bro 5. He'd actually see I'm town if he were The green check isn't the only thing that makes him town. I argued that he was town hours and hours before the green check was public. Why didn't you fight me about it then? | ||
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On April 12 2013 07:39 geript wrote: Why do I need to argue your points? Most vets I've seen have completely misread newbs actions. It's ok Kei, you can win with me once people actually sheep me. No one is going to sheep you. 1) You're (almost certainly) wrong. I would bet my left nut on it. 2) Your attitude is detrimental to town. | ||
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On April 12 2013 08:14 Sn0_Man wrote: Interesting thought. I was thinking of suggesting an item to clear up some of the flips (or at least one), as well. Just depends on what BC will allow. (PS: your hint to me was good ) | ||
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On April 12 2013 08:50 Sharrant wrote: Hey, guys, so I finally got to read the last few pages. I think StrongAndBig is the last member of the mafia. Apparently he is the detective, which is what the mafia would have wanted as their fifth slot, in my opinion. If Caller was mafia showtime, VE the mafia NRA, Deconduo the mafia janitor, and Artanis was the Mafia Assassin then where was their ability to determine a players role? Their last slot would either have to either be a role thief (who stole Decon's role just before he died and used it in his stead, perhaps having a mafia bonus to be able to use it twice) or a role that detects other players roles. I don't believe CPR doctor was chosen by mafia, so this seems to be the likely solution to me. I completely believe his claim of being Detective, but I am sure he is the mafia detective. Why would mafia take Detective instead of the safer Role Cop (or even better, Capitalist) picks? | ||
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How do you feel about Vivax? | ||
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On April 12 2013 08:54 Sharrant wrote: He was in 7th draft pick, and there was another mafia member above him so essentially he was in 6th slot. He was quite high up the list, I think it was a safe bet AND it denies town both a role check and an alignment check. Still doesn't answer why not Capitalist. Capitalist is like, an awesome middle ground. One extra vig KP, and some role checks. Is denying town the DT worth it? | ||
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On April 12 2013 09:24 Sharrant wrote: I don't mind him too much right now. I think that his shot on Austin was very bad play, but I liked his reaction to it when he saw your claim about Austin. Sure, he could've faked it, I wouldn't put it past him. But I'd rather keep as many people alive as possible. I don't know how to take him not coming back to the thread for so long though. That could've been an embarassed townie being glad he didn't have to stick around after his mistake or a mafia looking to clam up and not reveal anything before he was "officially" dead. So this isn't your position anymore? On April 04 2013 12:23 Sharrant wrote: 1. America should not be picked by any town member. I don't think it very strongly benefits town. The only way I think it benefits town is if it is used by a town player to essentially act as a second lynch. I believe that America must announce its nuke in the thread (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). This is my proposal. Either A) we all agree to avoid the role. No town member takes it, thus if it is ever used we will know that a mafia member took it. or B) If someone does pick it they announce themselves right away and we use it as a second lynch. Announcing it after day 1, or using the power to kill someone that the town does not agree on should be seen as that person claiming scum. I personally prefer option A, but I can't control anyone. | ||
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On April 12 2013 09:23 Vivax wrote: Well I don't want him to get lynched before OO that's for sure. If someone plans to switches to me and Sharrant he might hinder OO's lynch. There are 9 votes on OO, 8 on Sharrant (including yours), and 7 on you. I doubt 2 people are going to unvote OO to put both you and Sharrant over him. | ||
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On April 12 2013 09:39 Sharrant wrote: @Vivax You can always put a vote on Austin, he's set to die today, so it's like voting for a single lynch. I encourage everyone to think about what I've said about StrongAndBig. If you lynch me today, that's fine, but please shoot or lynch StrongAndBig afterwards. What Vivax is saying is that if we start moving votes off of you, then he's next in line to get lynched and will lose his ability to parity check someone tonight. | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:50 Sharrant wrote: Just claim already. I actually can't even understand why you're not claiming at this point. He has claimed. Well, he didn't directly say the words, but he's the inventor. | ||
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lol what? He said earlier that he targetted me last night. Whether I am town or scum, I'm not going to lie about the invention. That would just be beyond dumb. | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:16 Mocsta wrote: Because we came to the conclusion there was too many dt roles we asked for hard dt claims & didnt get them I forgot to add Vivax as a dt claimer. What do you mean "we came to the conclusion that there are too many of them"? We never came to any such conclusion. I'm actually happy that we have so many (claimed) investigation roles. | ||
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But why did he wait until 2 hours before his head was on the line to get active? Fuck me this game is a mindfuck. | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:27 Mocsta wrote: Someone martyred recently, cant remember who though anyone recall if scum or town did it? Who cares. Sharrant is not whoever it was that did it. It's an irrelevant point. | ||
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The whole RO vs VE thing didn't feel like a double bus. | ||
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S&B claimed Detective (which also happened to be what Sharrant tried to get). I claimed NKVD. | ||
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S&B check geript. Vivax check Mocsta I'll check Vivax Mocsta check...RO? Shelvocke? BM Shoot S&B. Sn0 make whatever sounds the best. Although I recommend something to reveal one (some?) or the hidden flips if possible. Reason for not checking Meapak: if BM shoots S&B and dies, then S&B is telling the truth and is a town DT. Therefore he has a green check on MZ. | ||
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On April 12 2013 12:39 geript wrote: Kei, Yamato should be on that list somewhere Yea, probably. Not exactly sure where. I'll think about it some more. And BM somehow knew that they were the JV and that he could claim it safely? | ||
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On April 12 2013 13:06 geript wrote: Kei, you like daytime justice vig gun idea? No, its bad. Giving away town players for free is terrible. Why do you think I put JV in my "Do Not Pick" list. | ||
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I don't think rayn picked JV in slot 2. Very, very unlikely, imo. Emperor is a possibility, or something else entirely. Palmar: his insistence on his part in the VE lynch makes me think emperor. JV is a possibility though. The point of the item is to check the corpse of rayn for his role. If he's anything other than emperor, then we know that Palmar was emperor, which means that BM has to be JV because yam also tried to pick it. Or that yam is lying and is something else entirely. | ||
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On April 12 2013 14:30 Mocsta wrote: I agree on the palmar tell for emperor, which was the consensus back on Day2. Kei, this seems to be a convoluted way to just burn a check on JV. Why burn an invention? Because it helps to solve the game? The whole situation surrounding BM is the most confusing part of the game at this point and it doesn't seem like BM is going to be very cooperative. Some kind of list check, or more cop checks, or role checks, or anything that helps to figure the game out is fine too. But I don't know if I'll be alive tomorrow to direct people with proper use of the inventions, and judging by half of the posts today, people are too caught up with calling each other idiots or being "right" rather than making smart, logical decisions. | ||
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On April 12 2013 14:56 Mocsta wrote: day "DT" check. That implies role + alignment, is this correct? No, it was just alignment. | ||
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On April 12 2013 15:45 Bill Murray wrote: Why the fuck are you all talking about my role at night which has KP? I'm not vigging until we have confirmation about who is scum. I'm not dying and creating an earlier LYLO/MYLO when there are like 12 town players left. I wish the host would keep the list updated. I slept the day away, so ObviousOne flipping scum changed my mood a lot, considering I've been neglecting my responsibilities as a man... and I WILL be looking into him... but if mafia weren't going to kill me tonight, WHICH I WAS TRYING FOR, you all are fucking that all up. I mean, when someone doesn't want the thread SHIT UP with their role, which I HAVEN'T CLAIMED OTHER THAN IN ACRONYM, That should be UP TO THEM, Don't you all think?!?!?! .................... No. You claimed that Caller dying means that he was scum. We're in a position now where there are either 1 or 2 scum left alive, but we can't know which because you aren't claiming your role. Also, yamato claimed to have picked Justice Vig. If you aren't JV, then you withholding that information is YET ANOTHER player that we know nothing about. Everyone else who is town (and probably someone who is scum, too) was willing to claim. Why are you being so uncooperative? You are directly hindering town. Also, why are you worried about dying? We have 5 claimed cops, an inventor, and an America! I don't think you're in any danger of dying even if you claim. Stop hindering town. | ||
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Your only claim to townieness was that we all thought you were justice vig because of how sure you were that Caller was scum. | ||
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On April 12 2013 16:33 Bill Murray wrote: my rolename changed a little, to injustice vig, but i didnt see anything different about the text until now in terms of the highlighted. considering the CPR doctor didn't change, and only Assassin GF did, you all should view this as a null tell. If you are going to lynch me, I'd rather take my chances trying to kill scum tonight, so tell me now. If I ask you nicely, will you pretty please shoot S&B? 1) I think there's a decent chance that he is scum. 2) If he's not, then your death (mostly) clears 3 people. 3) Your death gives us a ton of information if S&B does happen to be town. If we see your role flip and know for sure that you are JV, then WE know that caller was scum and we'll know better what we're looking for. | ||
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On April 13 2013 01:35 geript wrote: Best plan here: S&B check Yamato Vivax check Mocsta Keirathi check S&B Mocsta check... RO or Vivax if you want. BM Shoot Vivax or S&B (pref for Vivax) Sn0 make a KP invention and hand it out to obvious town. We want a stack of KP in case we get to the endgame. I'm the most likely to die of the cops if one of us does die. And whoever is checking S&B is the most important check, because it not only clears S&B, but it also soft-clears MZ and whoever S&B checks tonight. So me checking S&B is bad form. S&B check yamato Vivax check Mocsta I'll check geript Mocsta check Vivax BM Shoot S&B Sn0: make an item to give us more information, not KP. We don't need KP at all. | ||
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On April 13 2013 01:56 Sn0_Man wrote: Wat about shelvocke? PS: M_Z is hard confirmed green unless godfather because SnB/M_Z is too many scum (assuming one is BM/Caller) and they both have roles that aren't traitor. Maybe I'll check Shelvocke instead. Also, it should be noted that any red check should be lynched tomorrow, no questions asked. If that person ends up not flipping scum, that means that RO is using framing and therefor is scum. Lynch him the next day. | ||
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On April 13 2013 02:05 Sn0_Man wrote: Well, red checks can also mean the checker is scum but that is fine because we know who he is as well. This game is so nigh-unloseable that I want to invent KP just to speed it up. KP is the "faster" option. But really, its almost always better to play it safe. Right now its either 12-1, or 11-2. Assuming scum still has an active KP role to use (which might not be the case), at most 3 people should die tonight. Which gives us 2 more lynches and nights (at least) before LYLO. No need to get hasty, especially when we apparently have so many investigation roles. Every extra KP used at this point just makes us that much more likely to lose because people are impatient. | ||
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On April 13 2013 02:08 geript wrote: Why do you idiots think I even could be scum? Do you think that Artanis case vs me and my case vs VE was a weird triple bus situation? You people are dumb beyond measure. I honestly stopped caring about the "bus" situation when apparently Caller is scum. Your play the entirety of day 2 was anti-town. You've been insisting that people treat you as confirmed town. You seem to care more about your "confirmed" townieness than you do about anything else in the game. It's fucking weird. I don't really think you are scum, but it would surprise me much less than some other people being scum solely because of your attitude and play day 2. | ||
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On April 13 2013 02:13 Restraining Order wrote: I don't think a compuslive day-justicevig gun would be a bad invention. Maybe, if it was given to a suspect that we aren't checking tonight. Like Shelvocke? And as long as he listens to town on who to shoot. I still think its silly to throw away townies just for a check though. Why not just have a check? :o | ||
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On April 13 2013 02:16 Sn0_Man wrote: There is actually a disaster situation where BM is scum "injustice vigi" who shoots town, Sinani is scum vote rigger covered by godfather, and yamato/shelvocke are BOTH traitors. Then we lose to 2x NK, then Vote rig, then 2x NK. Buuuuut thats not likely. Still, inventing KP does prevent it TBH inventing KP seems fine to me, so long as BC lets me and I can give it to somebody who won't go crazy with it (*cough* geript *cough). I'd say there is absolutely no chance you die tonight Kei given that you can't recieve inventions and you have the weakest cop check around atm (except maybe mocsta). Well, hopefully I don't. But people listen to me, which is just as dangerous, if not moreso, than a check. | ||
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On April 13 2013 02:18 Restraining Order wrote: Because there's a dude that flipped having "gf" as a role extra. Nothing to say other mafia can't get that addition too. Imagine you end up with 10 people and greenchecks on all of them. Then you suddenly wish you had a gun. The reason I'm not quite as worried about this is that I think there's a decent chance our last scum is between one of Mocsta and S&B. Why, you ask? Because Sharrant had a good point. Why did scum pick Assassin without a way to check roles? Did they just hope to get enough roleclaims to keep shooting? That is possible, but it seems like a poor picking strategy as scum to rely on town to do something that it doesn't necessarily want to do. Also, I have no reason to believe that different theme character classes can get the same bonuses. At least not at this point. Assassin was probably the "gangster" archetype. Neither capitalist or DT would be. *MAYBE* they would for some reason get a GF bonus, but I kind of doubt it. | ||
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On April 13 2013 02:21 geript wrote: Look, I've made this point all day 2. People have been treating Sn0 as confirmed town for doing fuck nothing all game. But because he got a "green check" that makes him confirmed town... Fuck that. I caught and outed VE on D0. Before we could even vote. Of course I want to be considered confirmed town for that. Of course I'm pissed that people have denied me that. As Scum is there any serious reason for my D2 play? Has my play fit my town meta? Has my play in any way resembled the last game? It's obvious that I'm pissed off towny. There's no reason for me not to blend D2 as scum. None. I could likely have made weak cases and got ignored all game. I wish I were NRA agent so anyone dumb enough to check me would get the fate they deserve for stupidity. I've given you like 10 reasons why sn0 is town. And it has nothing to do with the green check, that was just icing on top of the cake. You just keep harping that he isn't treating you like confirmed town so he must be scum. It doesn't work like that. Get over it. | ||
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On April 13 2013 04:50 Sn0_Man wrote: I await your concession. If you wish to waste everybody's time that is your prerogative. If you are actually town that will be revealed decently shortly (since I assume you will use the invention almost immediately). I actually wish I hadn't mentioned that it was going to you on the off chance that you are town and scum shoots you to prevent the invention from being used, but your posting recently has precluded me from believing that possible. As I said, town geript is much better than this. That's the problem. Town geript isn't better than this, because I'm almost positive this is town geript. | ||
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On April 13 2013 04:50 Sn0_Man wrote: I actually wish I hadn't mentioned that it was going to you on the off chance that you are town and scum shoots you to prevent the invention from being used, but your posting recently has precluded me from believing that possible. . This actually a big concern. I recommend you WIFOM who to give it to between RO/yam/shelvocke/whoever. If geript dies and I stay alive, they can shoot me. Otherwise it's their choice. | ||
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On April 13 2013 05:06 Ace wrote: this is almost as good as the TV show Hi shelvocke <3 | ||
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On April 13 2013 07:10 geript wrote: If that's how you feel be prepared to read cases on yourself and Keirathi all next cycle. It's totes gonna happen. I thought you were just going to shoot me? Make it easy. | ||
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On April 13 2013 09:53 Bill Murray wrote: i sent in a kill on geript hope you all dont mind ^^ Please, please, please change it to S&B. Sn0 is giving a justice vig gun to geript tomorrow. You shooting S&B gives us information about 4 people and maybe ends the game. | ||
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BM says his role was renamed to Injustice Vig. What does that imply? A justice vig can only shoot scum, or he dies. Can an Injustice Vig only shoot town, or he dies? If he's town, that's a terrible "character theme" power. But it could make the JV role pickable for scum, if they were thorough enough to ask about it before the picking phase ended. | ||
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On April 13 2013 11:42 Mocsta wrote: Thats the biggest bunch of WIFOM malarkey I have read this game. It's not WIFOM, it's speculation. Something is weird about BM, you can't deny that. | ||
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On April 13 2013 12:02 geript wrote: Ok, so Kei, can you understand why I could be suspicious of you? Of course I can. I said so in my filter like 2 days ago. But you only got suspicious of me because I refuse to call you confirmed town and argued with you about sn0. So lol. | ||
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On April 13 2013 12:04 Mocsta wrote: It is, but I investing time to ponder that situation is ridiculous. I put in a lot of time yesterday going through his filter, to come to the conclusion. If BM wasnt JV; as town, he would call out Yam as lying. So either, both are town; or both are scum. So i find the endeavor pointless because we all know, the JV role is self-fulfilling. We will know Day 2 which of the above 2 possibilities is validated. It becomes less self-fullfilling when he claims he doesn't have to shoot every night. And claims that he isn't called a Justice Vigilanted, but is called an Injustice Vigilante. I wasn't making that shit up, but you apparently missed that part of the thread because you came back AFTER HE CLAIMED wondering why he didn't claim yet. | ||
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On April 12 2013 20:40 Mocsta wrote: ]Why the fuck would "scum" caller try to divert the lynch from "assassin" artanis to "cpr medic" ObviousOne. The only benefit of assassin is day kill; CPR doesnt need role claim, so its possibly more valuable. Caller was town. Full Stop. BM is certainly not JusticeVig. He still *may* be town. Yamato is 100% confirmed scum. Why? Palmar makes sense as emperor; and Rayn was too high up the draft to risk it all on the dreamflower. Now we know BM is not JV; how is Yam a VT. Simple.. he is not. That was the weird post, because BM already hard claimed JV. I guess you did decide later that he was JV. | ||
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On April 13 2013 12:15 Mocsta wrote: I saw he called himself Injustice Vig. U want me to burn a check on him instead then? Mine is role check after all. Not necessary. | ||
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He is scum. ##Vote: Bill Murray | ||
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On April 13 2013 12:41 Mocsta wrote: The logic obviously wasn't terrible as it held. Have u read the filters of VE/Artanis/OO. I did, and shevlocke is a recurring theme for pushing as a lynch candidate. If you were so sure that he was town, why did you check him? Boggle :o To me, in your shoes Vivax would have been a MUCH better check. | ||
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I kind of want to lynch S&B over Vivax. Notice how BM refused to shoot him despite me asking nicely the entire night? Scum BM would have had the perfect opportunity to shoot town S&B with one of the strongest anti-scum roles still alive. Why didn't he? And why did scum pick Assassin without a role checking role? | ||
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On April 13 2013 22:16 Mocsta wrote: I really hope Shelvocke isnt RebirthofLegend; but his constant fucking off and doing nothing to help town is reminding of ThePeaShooter majorly. ================ At least we can be sure scum only has 1 night KP. ================ Keirathi Day2, I was pushing for a SnB lynch pretty hard. Austin in particular gave me resistance, and no one else seemed to care about what I was saying. - IIRC that included you. Night 2 you were pushing for SnB. Can you walk me through what in particular changed your mind. I don't think I ever gave particular resistance. S&B was in one my "we should lynch from this list" posts early in the day. I backed off once he claimed DT, though, because I was just wrong about DT. For some reason, throughout the whole game, I thought DT was just an alignment check (you can kinda see that I did actually think that in my "Roles you should take" post...I had NKVD as slightly more powerful than DT, and had DT as a "town only" pick. NKVD is definitely not more powerful role+alignment check). Scum wouldn't take just an alignment check, so I just moved S&B back in my list. Then Sharrant brought up the fact that DT was role+alignment, and my opinion quickly changed again. That is an excellent role for scum to pick. Basically I don't have any reasons for why S&B is town, his role (especially in this situation, with an assassin teammate) makes perfect sense as scum, and BM refused to shoot him. Together, I think he's our last scum. | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:20 strongandbig wrote: Also lynching one of our dts instead of checking them makes no sense in this situation. We have like three claimed detectives, and scum has only got one KP (assuming one of the kills last night was due to bill Murray). We can check everyone left in the game before scum can kill all of us. So if you really think I'm scum, there's absolutely no reason to lynch me instead of having a detective check me. Actually this is kind of a good point. Hmmm, I'll think about it. | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:24 strongandbig wrote: Anyway keirathi do you disagree that scum likely only has one KP left and that we should have dts check me instead of lynching me? If you're worried that scum would kill the dt who checks me, we could have both you and vivax check me. No, I don't disagree. Hence why I said "Actually that's a good point" Scum almost certainly only have 1 KP left.My only real problem is that we have no idea how the bonuses work. We know a "Gangster" got a godfather bonus. Does that mean a "Law enforcement" character can't get a godfather bonus? Or a "politician" character? | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:52 Mocsta wrote: The answer you seek is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=174#3467 Short answer is "no" Law enfrocement can not receive GF bonus. You're reading that part wrong. It says "politicians gain bonuses FOR HAVING vote manipulation roles" not "politices gain bonuses TO vote manipulation roles". By your logic, how is godfather a logical bonus to assassin, a KP role? | ||
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My entire point is we know that you get a bonus for picking a role that fits into your Theme. We have no idea how those bonuses are chosen, or assigned. We have anecdotal evidence that Assassin got a godfather bonus, and that Justice Vig got a bonus that either made him not compulsive and/or allowed him to shoot townies (probably the latter). That tells us that the bonuses within a single theme category aren't even the same and are role specific, but it doesn't tell us if other theme categories can get the same bonuses or not. | ||
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On April 14 2013 02:23 Mocsta wrote: Too tired for this shit. Night guys. One thing I learnt from filter diving last night (Art/VE/OO) was that, Artanis and IIRC OO; gave Vivax town reads with weird justifications. Artanis town reads on ppl like u, felt real (like he really thought u were town, and was giving points). But with Vivax, he just commented on some stuff about meta. Just something to keep in mind; if Vivax parity check was on BM; I would just lynch him. If only someone had checked Vivax. Like everyone said to. Hmmmmmmm? | ||
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On April 14 2013 03:01 Mocsta wrote: I dont see the point. I can only role check. and he was so confident to immediately say parity cop... i saw no reason to validate that. All the other cops tried to be more reserved, and just say cop. If anything that makes vivax look worse though. Point is.. im sure my check would come back parity, so what then? Scum won't pick parity cop. It serves them absolutely no purpose. If he returns Parity Cop, that's as good as an alignment check. | ||
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On April 14 2013 03:43 Restraining Order wrote: FWIW, the same argument was used on the justice vig pick. And see how that turned out.. True. I didn't really think about that. But my problem is...how do you turn parity cop into a scum-friendly role at all? Make it a role cop? I guess that's possible, but it seems to completely change the role, rather than just changing some minor mechanics. I guess its possible, though. A caveat is that both of the scum who have had role-based bonuses, their role name has changed. | ||
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On April 14 2013 03:44 Mocsta wrote: That leaves; yam/SnB/Vivax. S&B has green+VT check on yam. Whether S&B is town or scum, the check is valid. And a VT can't get any "bonuses" afaik. Which means yam is almost certainly green. | ||
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But the better question is, who is he using his frames on? Just not using them? Why not at least throw one on his teammate BillMurray? I mean, no one said we were checking BM; I kinda just made that decision at the last minute because BM wasn't cooperating and said he was "fishing for reactions". RO being scum is not impossible, but RO being scum AND framer seems quite unlikely. | ||
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On April 14 2013 06:57 strongandbig wrote: oh i didnt realize that he couldnt frame himself. well who do you think we should lynch today? It's a toss up between you and Vivax, with you leading right now. So, who do YOU want to lynch today? You haven't said. Well, I guess you said that we should lynch dandel, but only because you think he is framer. What about his play? What about anyone else? On April 14 2013 13:42 geript wrote: I don't understand why Keirathi is getting a free pass here. He himself said multiple times IIRC that BM's role would reveal itself regardless and had no need for investigation. There was literally 0 reason to check him. Checking Micsta, Vivax, RO or S&B were his best options clearly. I really wish I had thought more and tossed it at Keirathi instead. Why is he not being looked at whatsoever? I'll explain. Yes, his role was self-confirming if he was town AND he was compulsive, or if he was town and not compulsive but agreed to shoot a specific target for us and "take one for the team". If he wasn't using his ability in any way we could track, then how was he self-confirming? He claimed that he wasn't compulsive anymore. I dunno about you, but I don't think that's entirely out of the realm of possibilities for a theme bonus. And if he's not compulsive, then him being alive doesn't mean anything. He would have just been this big question mark until someone checked him or we just lynched him anyways. Better to be sure, IMO. As for the bolded: you have no idea how much I wish you had to. | ||
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Remember, I was the first of the cops to claim my actual role. We had 3 people claim cop checks...me, austin, and S&B. Vivax hadn't claimed yet. And remember, austin and S&B had both claimed alignment checks, S&B hadn't claimed his role check yet, nor had Sharrant claimed that he had tried to take DT yet. So, despite all that, I just happened to guess the right cop role that wasn't picked? So yea, its EXTREMELY likely that I am actually NKVD. If you want to say "Okay, I believe that you are NKVD because the facts don't make sense otherwise, but I still think you could have picked NKVD as scum." Then I ask you the question: why would I have? Yes, I have myself set up to return as vanilla to role cop checks (because I expected, and still sorta do, that scum probably took a role check ability if they took assassin). But if I was scum, why not just take Godfather, and get to protect one of my teammates as well? NKVD is strictly inferior to GF in every way. Also of note is that NKVD doesn't change your alignment to alignment checks, so an alignment check could clear this right up. | ||
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On April 15 2013 01:58 geript wrote: Scum took justice vig. They clearly asked about that. Why is it unbelievable that they could take NKVD and get roles off of it. For the same reason I don't think it likely that if Vivax is actually a Parity Cop that he is scum. I feel like that kind of bonus fundamentally changes how a role is designed and starts clashing with other roles, doing the exact same job. Maybe it is possible, I dunno. Of the two role bonuses we have evidence for, one was just an addon self-preservation power, and one (apparently) was a complete reversal of the role. (And I don't actually think this fundamentally makes the role start clashing with other roles...although it does provide a similar outcome, the mechanics are still different). | ||
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Lynch for scum. If we kill 5, and the game is still going, THEN worry about it. | ||
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S&B's "plan around the cops", while I don't fully agree with it, shows that he cares about the game at least. Just lynch Vivax. | ||
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That makes me feel a bit better about him and his push on OO on night 1->day 2 this game. | ||
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On April 15 2013 09:05 Mocsta wrote: Ppl get confused witht he use of 'bus".. bus is intention to lynch... whereas ppl are actually thinking of 'distancing" When I look at S&B's filter, it feels like a fairly genuine progression of his read towards OO. Calls him weak scum day 1, some people die, starts getting more sure, repeatedly brings him up day 2, etc. When I was looking through S&B, it was easily the strongest town point in his favor. You disagree? | ||
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My point was that I just find it slightly more likely that the guy who doesn't give a shit and isn't doing anything but dropping a random vote is scum than the guy who started calling out OO as soon as OO started calling Artanis scum. And said that he should be vigged night 1 before there was much information about what roles were in the game. Whatever you want to say about calling it distancing vs bussing, that would be weird scumplay. | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:33 strongandbig wrote: i already went into that. checks tonight should be on oatsmaster, RO, and me. (but you guys are being stupid). I think you all are morons for lynching me; sure, if you guess correctly and i'm scum, then we can end the game a bit faster, but the safe way for town to play is to keep all the dts alive until we can check everyone. the fact that all you impulsive morons (geript, mocsta, vivax, etc) don't see this makes perfect sense to me, but the fact that keirathi doesn't see the sense in this worries me. scum is staying in the game despite the fact that we have three DTs. That's what makes me think there may be a traitor left. Which leads me to a question for BC: if the only anti-town player remaining is a traitor, do they inherit the scum factional KP? I expect the answer to this question to be "no" but it should be asked anyway. I don't think there can be another player who has a "godfather bonus" in addition to a normal role. That would just be beyond ridiculous; far too much meddling in the roles imo. Already the change in the dreamflower role strikes me as kind of ridiculous and not something I thought BC would do, but that's a matter for post game discussion. It's not the fact that I don't see it, it's the fact that I am not sure if multiple people can have the GF bonus, and I question the reason MZ was killed last night over one of the cops. Plus it sounds a bit like a convenient excuse to prolong the game until all the outspoken townies are gone. Also, about the traitor: I still think it more likely that decon was badtown. Yea, it was stupid to use janitor. But it would have been even stupider to tell everyone he was janitor before he died if he was scum. Like, that's the whole purpose of Janitor; to deny town information. Why, then, do you give them that information? | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:50 Mocsta wrote: well as i said when night finished. the NK dont give away much about kei.. because the hits were valid targets > good town but yes; im more concerned about how much he has tried to achieve this cycle hes done the minimal amount for a guy trying to direct play. I'm not trying to direct town anymore. I gave up. Too many people with "I'm fucking right and nothing you can say means anything" personalities. It's not even fun anymore. | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:52 Mocsta wrote: i forgot, did yam have a green check? or his claim to fame is just being a VT? S&B has a green+VT check on him. It means he's confirmed not scum (he couldn't have GF bonuses as a VT). He *could* be traitor if you think traitor is a possibility. | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:52 Mocsta wrote: I know exactly what that feels like, from when austin was alive. but some how, i still kept engaged. my excuse the past 24hrs has been hydra staretd what is yours? What? I just told you what my excuse was. This game isn't fun anymore. Arguing with geript for 2 days straight over stupid bullshit has stripped all of my desire to even look at it anymore. | ||
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On April 15 2013 12:12 Mocsta wrote: I think anyone who dismisses cases by: (1) Saying "LOL"; or (2) Saying "No, you're a retard"; or (3) Tunneling relentlessly Make the game un fun. Pretty much all of us left in the game are guilty of any combination of those 3. Aw, I was going to say I haven't called anyone a retard or an idiot this entire game. But I did call BM an idiot when he shot Caller | ||
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On April 15 2013 12:57 Vivax wrote: Think of it from this point of view: The last scum doesn't concede cause he thinks he's not getting lynched anytime soon and wants to have some fun watching town burn a little. I'm currently reviewing yamato: This looks like something premature to say when you don't have knowledge of VE's alignment. It looks like yamato tried to take credit away from Palmar even before VE got lynched. Yamato CANNOT be normal scum. It's impossible. S&B had a green+VT check on him. VT's can't get extra bonuses. Yamato could be a traitor, but to have known that VE was scum at that point, he would have had to have already been recruited. Which I don't find very likely, looking at his filter. | ||
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On April 15 2013 13:03 Mocsta wrote: lol vivax. point of reclusive traitor is you arent in scum qt. unless they identify you. He's making a case that yam is mafia, not traitor. Boggle :o | ||
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On April 15 2013 13:05 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2013 13:00 Keirathi wrote: Yamato CANNOT be normal scum. It's impossible. S&B had a green+VT check on him. VT's can't get extra bonuses. Yamato could be a traitor, but to have known that VE was scum at that point, he would have had to have already been recruited. Which I don't find very likely, looking at his filter. That would fit the profile of a guy who doesn't expect to get lynched soon: Someone with a green check. Yamato was the last one to pick. Why not pick godfather? Conservative choice, and guaranteed to not have been taken away by a townie. Looking at the OP again: Godfather - You are the Godfather of the Mafia. You lead the Mafia by example and have a number of abilities which assist your minions in bringing Liquiville to it's knees. You have the ability to cover a player, changing their role and alignment to anything you want. You can choose to appear as a role of your choice (including vanilla townie) to any and all types of detective-esque actions. You are immune to votechecks. It doesn't look like Godfather can disguise his own alignment. Unless he can target himself, I guess. Or it's just worded poorly. | ||
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On April 15 2013 13:13 Vivax wrote: ^ that was to mocsta I read it like this: GF can manipulate other's alignments and additionally has his usual ability, but as passive I dunno. Because NKVD agent's wording is similar: "You also can disguise your role as NKVD agent to detective actions, and may change role or keep the same!" You can disguise your role: you can choose to appear as a role of your choice[ I guess it doesn't hurt to ask, though: Does Godfather's passive ability obfuscate both his role and alignment, or just role? | ||
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On April 15 2013 13:21 yamato77 wrote: Shelvocke is worth a check, too. He's even worse than Vivax. He was rolechecked as Vanilla. I guess an alignment check wouldn't hurt too, though. | ||
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On April 15 2013 13:41 Mocsta wrote: Sorry guys i know this is lazy and uselesss but i really cant remember the checks from Night 2. Can someone please summarise them? Night 1: I had a green check on austin. Austin had green+inventor check on sn0. S*B had green+America check on MZ. Vivax checked austin. You shot, so no check. Night 2: I had red check on BM. Vivax had green check on you. You had Vanilla check on Shelvocke. S&B had green+Vanilla check on yamato. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [From Artanis] + On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Here's my reads on all those who are voted. VisceraEyes Defensive play, agrees with a lot of things in the thread. Seems complacent. The only game I remember that I played with VE was LI in which he was in everyone's face as scum. I also observed his play in Hydra Mini Mafia which he gave up in as soon as he got caught. This game feels like neither. He created a bad case on RO. Rereading Geript's case on him however does show a few valid points that point towards VE being scum which he never answered. Rather than defending himself, VE started attacking people that jumped on the wagon which isn't alignment indicative to me, as it's a both a valid way of finding scum and an easy way to dodge responsibility. However, I don't like his 180 going from his initial read of RO to Deconduo over one post that really didn't mean much. Leaning scum. Vivax Vivax is Vivax. In all previous games I've played with him he's rolled scum, but sometimes the host accidentally flipped him green. This game I feel like he's playing better than any game he's had before. There's still Vivax moments of trying to be right where everyone else is wrong, but he's being cooperative. I see no reason why he wouldn't stick to his unreadable meta if he rolled scum. Town. Restraining Order The case on him was weak. Has done fairly little, but nothing that suggests a scum or a town mindset. Null on him. Keirathi Seems willing to want to figure the game out. Small thing that bothered me was that he had a plan regarding people picking roles to counter scumpicks, yet also advocating that everyone just picks the roles they want. Other than that, he's had a very constructive attitude and has been scumhunting and paranoid. Likely town. Palmar Has a hilarious plan, never actually goes anywhere with it. Trolls around all game. Throws a few accusations but never substantiates them. Says BM is scum but never goes anywhere with it, then jumps on the VE wagon as soon as he notices no one else is putting in the effort to get BM lynched. After checking out RED Team's Prize (where he was blue) he always pushed his own ideas. He asked people what they thought, but nothing that came close to sheeping. He's a lot more disinterested than what I've seen in that game. Leaning scum. Shelvocke His filter is fairly empty. His D1 plan was "pick whatever you like" then never actually pushed it. Rather than contributing to plans, he just calls all of them bad. Spends a lot of time on setup talk then jumps on the VE wagon as well. He never replies to the case made on him or any suspicion laid on him at all. Avoiding responsibility for his reads. There's really nothing in his filter to suggest towniness. Scum. Raynpelikoneet Contradicted my RNG plan without a real reason. Nominates himself as towniest very quickly. Calls everyone that pushed ideas town. Randomly passes by scumreads whilst only having talked about setup before then, doesn't explain why. Massive amount of oneliners that clutter up the thread and say very little/nothing. His paranoia and flailing about in the last two pages of his filter make me hesitant, but still leaning scum. Strongandbig Basically did nothing until mid D1, but I like this post. Pointing a lot of fingers at people for good reasons. Leaning town. Deconduo Playing a fairly timid game, but I can follow his thought process very well. It's hard to really put a finger to, but all his posts speak to me from a town viewpoint and VE's reason for voting Deconduo feels weak. I'm willing to vote for VE, Palmar, Shevlocke and Raynpelikoneet, with a preference for Shevlocke. On April 08 2013 18:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Shelvocke is still my top priority. VE, Rayn, Sinani and Palmar are all lynches I would support as well. On April 08 2013 22:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm talking about the people that I'm questioned about. Shelvocke hasn't even replied to any of this: + Show Spoiler [He's responded to none of this] + On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Shelvocke His filter is fairly empty. His D1 plan was "pick whatever you like" then never actually pushed it. Rather than contributing to plans, he just calls all of them bad. Spends a lot of time on setup talk then jumps on the VE wagon as well. He never replies to the case made on him or any suspicion laid on him at all. Avoiding responsibility for his reads. There's really nothing in his filter to suggest towniness. Scum. On April 07 2013 10:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Alright so like I said earlier, I have a pretty strong scum read on Shevlocke and here’s why. What do these posts have in common? They are all worthless. Now this wouldn’t be such a problem except that he also has these posts: So there have been two options to speculate about worthless things so far (picking plans and who got what numbers), and shevlocke has jumped on them both. Does he have any reads? Thus far his one “scum read” is VE . His argument against VE is “he’s faking contributions by talking about irrelevant things” this is exactly what shevlocke himself has been doing which is ironic. So let’s quickly review, shevlocke has posted about both of the worthless topics the thread has discussed so far. On top of that, he accuses his only scum read of doing exactly what he himself is doing. Shevlocke is doing his best to blend in by providing “opinions” on the things that don’t matter and his one read is completely worthless. We’re not too far into day 1 but I want shevlocke’s name out there as a lynch candidate. On April 07 2013 11:43 austinmcc wrote: I'm actually really digging that Shelvocke read. Yes, most of the posts are worthless, but the VE vote feels weak as well. VE isn't reading/is faking a contribution. This can be scummy, but at this point in the game there are A LOT of players who fit that criteria. The second bit, VE being...hypocritical because he often is ridiculous and is suggesting people not be ridiculous is just dumb. I'm often an idiot. I don't suggest other people are. Some players are confusing/lurky, they don't suggest that other people be confusing/lurky. Heck, the VE personality in Personality 2 just poked at VE's claiming, which, if anything, should reinforce the idea that VE might not recommend to others that they play how he has in certain past games. Half that two sentence read is just...badwrong. The other half is true of a number of players, with no reason given why VE is singled out. And ze vote? 24 hours later. Not important because he didn't vote earlier, he couldn't, but important because discussion of VE has popped up here and there throughout the thread during those 24 hours. Shelvocke, who has really only called out VE at this point (apart from asking gonzaw if his secret scumread was snb (which he now adds to)), doesn't seem to care about anything that's been posted about/by VE during those 24 hours. Note that he HAS followed up on snb, looks to have reread snb before making that post. But his vote post on VE has more meat, more indication that Shelvocke is scumhunting, when he brings up snb, not VE, who he is actually voting for. Do not like. ##Vote: Shelvocke Since then, he's made a horribly reasoned vote on me. Randomly goes back to the Geript stuff which happened ages ago yet he never cast suspicion on it back then. He never even mentioned it. Randomly doesn't want to vote for me anymore because of WIFOM. What The fuck? None of this makes any sense as town. Randomly unvoting me because of WIFOM, randomly accusing Yamato of shooting Gonzaw when Yamato has been agreeing with Gonzaw, it just doesn't make any sense from a town viewpoint. He's been afk for the rest, and all the times he was here he's played scummily. On April 09 2013 00:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Sn0_Man is afk. Shelvocke is part afk part horrendous filter. I'd rather go for the second. On April 09 2013 03:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Welp, looks like I'm still alive. I'm fine with a VE lynch. Caller's obv not going to die today. Gonna place my vote and afk. These honestly feel like the typical "A bunch of townies are making a case on this other townie. Time to hope on the wagon" type of scum posts. The last one is particularly interesting though. Notice how Shelvocke was always his "strongest scum read". But as soon as Caller actually pulls the Showtime hammer, his top read switches over to VE. Why? IMO, it's because he knows that Caller is town and if he gets the lynched switched over to VE before the ability goes through, then when VE flips scum, he just inherently looks better. And, if Shelvocke was scum (since we know he's a VT), why not try to get the lynch onto him instead of VE? I think it's because Shelvocke is town and VE was the only possible way for a scum Artanis so salvage any town cred if Caller's shot was actually fake. Also, this little tidbit I find interesting: On April 10 2013 12:26 Shelvocke wrote: ![[image loading]](http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/164/000692_40.jpg) I talk with my guns. ##Kill Meapak_Ziph On April 10 2013 12:27 Bill Murray wrote: in comes Shelvocke, being a hero If Shelvocke was scum with BM, he would have known that the shot was fake. However, it feels natural, not forced. I think BM actually thought Shelvocke was shooting MZ there. | ||
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The worst part is that if I had just kept my big mouth shut for 10 minutes, geript would have shot me, I would be confirmed town, and we would have lynched BM anyways. And S&B would still be alive. The sad irony is that I'm the idiot, here | ||
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On April 15 2013 15:01 Mocsta wrote: My problem with Kei is to do with In the hydra 1. i felt he was town instantly based on pressure applied in the game. i thought he was town based on thought process I never got any of that this game... the thought has a lot of credence. Instantly? You realize I posted like 10 times day 1 of hydra, right? I think I maybe called Witty scum once, at the end of the day. Other than that, I did jack shit. People kept referring to hydra in Red Team too with that same shitty example of why they thought I was town. Day 2/3 != Day 1. The mind just boggles | ||
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On April 15 2013 15:02 yamato77 wrote: Show some examples of this bad early game and we'll talk about it further. My day 1 reads were quite bad. It should be pretty easy to see for yourself | ||
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On April 15 2013 15:10 Vivax wrote: Keirathi, since you said you're NKVD, you can choose as what to appear, what did/will you pick tonight? I sent in vanilla on day 1. I believe I already said that. I'm actually not sure if I have to send in a new role every night or not. I haven't been. I won't tonight either, but obviously that means nothing. | ||
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On April 15 2013 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Oh yea, and as far as me being scum: Remember, I was the first of the cops to claim my actual role. We had 3 people claim cop checks...me, austin, and S&B. Vivax hadn't claimed yet. And remember, austin and S&B had both claimed alignment checks, S&B hadn't claimed his role check yet, nor had Sharrant claimed that he had tried to take DT yet. So, despite all that, I just happened to guess the right cop role that wasn't picked? So yea, its EXTREMELY likely that I am actually NKVD. If you want to say "Okay, I believe that you are NKVD because the facts don't make sense otherwise, but I still think you could have picked NKVD as scum." Then I ask you the question: why would I have? Yes, I have myself set up to return as vanilla to role cop checks (because I expected, and still sorta do, that scum probably took a role check ability if they took assassin). But if I was scum, why not just take Godfather, and get to protect one of my teammates as well? NKVD is strictly inferior to GF in every way. Also of note is that NKVD doesn't change your alignment to alignment checks, so an alignment check could clear this right up. Bolded relevant part, although all of it is pretty relevant I guess. | ||
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On April 15 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote: I also wondered why caller would be shot. as showtime; his power was used. he was in essence a VT. What was the value in killing him; with the janitor flip, BM could have "framed" ANYBODY. But he chose Caller specifically. This does give heavy credence to Keirathi being under pressure. What? Caller called me scum during the picking phase, but never followed up on it during the actual game. Night 1, after Artanis and VE flipped scum, he was interested in lynching rayn/sn0/you/Oats. I wasn't under any pressure whatsoever :o In fact, I don't remember a single person mentioning me all of night 1. Bad argument is bad. | ||
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On April 15 2013 16:00 Mocsta wrote: So you forgot about Sharrant also adding in his 2c on you? Sharrant completely retracted his 2c during the middle of day 1. | ||
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You making a random post about me during day 1 doesn't change that. If I was scum and you had been shot night 1, maybe someone else could make that connection though. But it doesn't make sense with your original hypothesis. And again: you were thinking it was fishy because of the night 1 shots and thinking they might have been because I was under pressure. And again, my point still stands that I don't think ANYONE mentioned me night 1. I would have to be completely sure, but I don't remember anyone attacking me at all. So yes, your original point is bad. If you want to make another point, then by all means, go ahead. | ||
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On April 15 2013 16:10 Mocsta wrote: Ermm, my head is exploding. oats; yes, i found keirathi response weird. But i can't tell where you are at: im not sure the geript post you are referencing. I believe he's talking about the scumslip thing. On April 05 2013 15:52 Keirathi wrote: Err what? How is that in any way a scumslip :o You're seeing things that aren't there, IMO lol. For reference, the full quote. | ||
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On April 15 2013 16:14 Mocsta wrote: Im tending to think Geript/Keirathi are two townies going at it. We're not going at it. I don't think he's scum, and I am ignoring him, especially since all of these arguments are things I can't respond to anyway. Whether I am town or scum, nothing I could have done would have changed how that section of the game played out. He just refuses to see that because he is so tunneled that he only looks for what might make someone scum and doesn't care about what might make someone town. He did the same shit to sn0, and look how that turned out. | ||
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Oats said "I was thinking the same thing [Keirathi] was. That geript's post wasn't a scumslip. [Keirathi] just beat me to it." He was responding to you calling my reaction fishy. Says he had the same reaction. | ||
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On April 18 2013 12:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: like I PM'd him immediately following his death, nuking austin is legitimately the dumbest thing I've ever done here and I can't express enough regret. I was SO frustrated by that nuke. I thought austin was an amazingly good check; he had a reasonable chance of being scum based on the day 1 flips, and on the flip side, if he was town, he was one of our most active posters and thinking the hardest about the game, so giving him legitimacy would have helped to keep thread atmosphere up. Ah well | ||
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On April 18 2013 15:41 geript wrote: Part of my reasoning for picking NRA was I figured it was a role that VE would strongly consider from either side and that if he took it then it would be highly indicative of his alignment dependent on how he acted. I think a more interesting method for PYP would be to have a list of all potentially available roles and once the draft order is set then figure offer people pods to draft from which are kept secret. I thought about a PYP game like that. Sort of like a "Single Draft" (ala dota). But I just couldn't figure out the logistics of how it could possibly work in a fun-to-play way. | ||
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On April 18 2013 16:28 geript wrote: Can people tell me what I obviously missed about why Kei was town? How do you find a way to overlook a bad early game to focus on the obvious other points? AFAIK most of the town reads basically just boiled down to meta reads. I was actively working to try to figure the game out and putting in a lot of effort, even though I was wrong quite often. Being wrong != being scum. Also, FWIW, if I was scum, I was really hurting my chances to win by calling everyone town all the time | ||
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On April 19 2013 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why did people think geript, Mocsta, yamato and sharrant were scum after D0? I never thought the others were scum, but I can sort of answer Sharrant. I had a town read on him basically as soon as he posted that case against me, but after all the green checks and my stronger town reads, he just gradually moved down the list and I couldn't remember a lot about WHY he was a townread early. Part of that is because I got it stuck in my head that scum assassin would have to have a way to check roles because '##Shoot: gonzaw GREEN' is stupid, part of it was his reaction to gonzaw's death (the way he came up with gonzaw's role AND how he tried to call Moc scum for doing the same thing I did but not calling me scum for it), and partly just because he wasn't really active. When I made the case on him, he had a page and a half of filter in 100 pages of game. | ||
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I'm assuming rayn was shot because you thought he was inventor? | ||
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On April 19 2013 00:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: That was my intention, to get shot on N1, as i did not get the CPRdoc. I breadcrumbed Mocsta what role did i try to pick but the jan screwed that up. :/ I was kinda sure the guy from top 2 picked CPR was scum, just couldn't figure out which one of those two it was. :/ If only you had actually flipped sn0 gave me an excellent hint that he was inventor, so my townread on him strengthened like 10x. If I had known you tried for CPR, I would have been much more certain about OO.Oh yea, @Moc: On April 13 2013 11:42 Mocsta wrote: Thats the biggest bunch of WIFOM malarkey I have read this game. | ||
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Artanis took Godfather, whose Kingpin bonuse was the get the abilities of whatever role he chose to appear as. | ||
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On April 19 2013 01:03 marvellosity wrote: all your best analysis always dismissed as wifom, kei Too true | ||
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On April 19 2013 02:44 gonzaw wrote: wtf so had a townie got Assassin and "denied" it from scum....Artanis would still have gotten it? lol Yep. As far as the rest of your post, my character theme was Kingpin so I got bonuses to "Traditional Mafia" roles. I asked about a few, and they just seemed like simple bonuses: an extra roleblock, extra voterigger, etc. Sadly I didn't actually ask about godfather (not that I could have gotten it anyway with Artanis taking it). Just asking about that would have made me realize just how much the bonuses could change the roles. | ||
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