RED Team's Prize

On March 27 2013 22:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
He was wrong about Grack and I was right.
That should not happen.

He pushes Grack 100% day 1, like when he is in the thread, thats basically most of what he talks about aside from smurfs bad case and stuff surrounding that.

Really fucking weird post. Its just weird. Like what.


I know Palmar is arrogent but what in the world is this. Day 1 is not over. Way overreaction.

Ok so Grack was basically the only thing Palmar pushed day 1 right?
This reads like Palmar wasnt sure/expected himself to find another read. Which isnt inline with his mentality before the dayvig.

So some scummy stuff about Palmar.

I dont see much point in putting down a vote at this time.
Do you?

On March 30 2013 12:34 sinani206 wrote:
I'm going to be pushing a prplhz lynch because he's the scummiest player in the game right now and is flying a little bit too low in most people's radars. His day one play is what triggered my scumdar and based on his play since then, I am completely sure of his alignment.

Day 1:

He pushed and Nisani exclusively day 1 (both out of nowhere, more about that in a second), and we can all agree that this was a rather easy target, after the multiple attacks on Nisani. His posts about Nisani did not show his thoughts in a very townie way either, deciding halfway through the day that Nisani was scum for no apparent reason (also said nothing in the main thread about unvoting Grack). Before that, nothing. Nothing useful at least. Some one-liners, random questions, and vague answers are all he had to show until he found someone to bandwagon. Then, his self-defense to Hapa was ridiculous. I don't even know why Hapa got off him randomly after that defense. I mean, Hapa's case wasn't the best, but that's OK, because it was mid-Day 1. This is full of meta-defense (useless) and circular logic. Then, after his suspicious of Smurf, prplhz jumps off because Smurf defended him. This is really scummy. Just because someone defends you doesn't mean they're on your side. Unless they unknowingly are. Prplhz decided not to want to kill someone purely because he was helping him stay alive.

Day 2:
Literally only one-liners. He said at night he had some reads, but I don't see any. OK, there's a null read on me, but I hadn't posted for a while there, so that's essentially nothing. He's been posting enough to look like he's keeping with the thread when in fact he is merely throwing votes on people with no explanation. Then there's this claim-but-not-really-a-claim, which looks to me like "I'm scum but lazy so I'll just claim some random role so people are confused and I can survive a few days to kill people."

Prplhz has been shitting on the thread since the beginning of the game, with no regard for the town of a game this small. We need all the help we can get, and I'm not seeing any of that in prplhz. He is even negatively affecting the game, asking questions that help only himself and his scumteam, and throwing anyone who is remotely suspicious of him far away.

I really don't understand how no one else sees this.

On March 26 2013 14:54 Acrofales wrote:

I believe I made it quite clear that it doesn't matter. I will judge his play as if he HAS read his role PM, but I choose to believe he hasn't.

All the claim does is put pressure on him to act as a townie, because if he uses it to be useless, then it increases the chance that he DID in fact read his role PM and is scum using the excuse to be useless and not be held accountable for his actions.

However, if he DOES act as a townie, then worst-case, he is scum with a chance of bussing his buddies. I don't mind scum who bus their scumbuddies at all. They're my favourite kind of scum. They then get caught lategame, because they'll have to survive umpteen lynches all by themselves (and if he still hasn't read his role PM, then he has to survive without KP, making it all the easier to catch him)

Now I have said that before. Twice, in different words and maybe not in this much detail. But it was my first few posts, when I was supposedly BEING USEFUL. How the fuck are you calling those posts useful without actually knowing their content?

On March 27 2013 02:38 Acrofales wrote:
Some updates.

I like Smurf's more recent participation. Pressure on Cora feels good. Still don't like his stance on DI, and it depends on how good a player Smurf is, whether this is something that can be excused, or is an obvious scumtell. I want to know who he is.

---

Raynpelikoneet does not look particularly scummy to me. There are some posts I don't like:
+ Show Spoiler [this one] + completely dodges the point. Because of the way he phrased the initial question, he inherently claimed he wasn't actually very serious. A vague answer that feels like it's part of a larger backpedal regarding prplhz. However, having a very serious vote a few hours into D1 is an oxymoron.

+ Show Spoiler [and this one] + misrepresents the argument, which was not that prplhz was playing to his town meta, but that meta was useless in this situation, because prplhz does the same as both alignments.

However, neither of these are particularly concerning... and while his case on OO was somewhat OMGUS, I think he picked on some good points and OO's case really was just a bad association case based on unflipped players.

Mostly, however, I like that he does not seem concerned to speak his mind or share his reads, and I don't get the feeling that he is just throwing suspicion around to see where it sticks. In closing: he's not a scumspect at the moment.

---

I'm not really liking what I see in Cora's filter.

In particular this post:

came at a time when I was NOT talking about OO at all (except to answer Oats' stupid question). In fact, I only directly talk about OO in two posts, the rest is all using it as a springboard to analyse OTHER players' reactions to it. At the time, I had specifically singled out two reactions as feeling off: Nisani's and Cora's own. Trying to flip it back just reaks of panicked OMGUS.

However, given how Cora was a rather easy mislynch in Personality 2, I am hesitant to just outright call him scum for this behaviour. While I don't agree with his read on Rayn, his posts about it are reasonable and he seems forthcoming with his opinion.

---

My main scumspect is still Nisani. His case was a pack of lies and he has disappeared from the thread again. Lynch him. Here is his case on me:

My first few posts were where I gave my opinion about OO's claim. How can those be my most sensible posts when he has clearly not even read them properly?!

It's because he is scum and needed to contribute, so jumped on something without thinking it through, that's why.

##revote Nisani201 for emphasis.

On March 28 2013 22:46 Acrofales wrote:
OO, you ask so many broad, and leading questions, that you make it incredibly hard to answer them. I have made it quite clear what I found scummy about Nisani's case on me and it WASN'T because it was on me, it was because at the time I saw this: there was a blatant lie, which served one single purpose: to make me look like scum.

I still have no clue what Nisani was thinking when he made the case or how he could say that my initial posts were contributions while simultaneously stating the direct contradiction of their content, but it's water under the bridge: I was clearly wrong and if I play with Nisani again I will take this into account.

The mere fact that YOU and quite a few other people agreed with me on it should indicate that I was clearly not stupid to think this way about the post, so calling it a bad OMGUS case is wrong.

As for why Nisani (and not someone else)? Because I thought he was scum. The fact that you even ask this question seems to indicate you have presupposed a scum motive for me making a case and are then asking why Acro, as scum, is making a case against Nisani of all possible targets. There is no answer, because I'm not scum. I was just wrong.

*Could I have voted for other "targets" of opportunity at the time?" --- I'm still not scum, so there are no targets of opportunity, just people I suspect are scum and people who I think are town.

*Was it a solitary tunnel? No. I think that is clear from my filter. I'll let others be the judge of whether I played a good game or not, but I don't think I was stuck in a rut where I overanalysed Nisani and never considered anybody else. But by and large, Nisani looked scummiest to me.

---

Also, you won't find scum by trying to ask why a lynch was pushed. You're far better off trying to figure out who had no decent reasons to be on it, but got the townie lynched anyway. People like Smurf, who jumped on halfway through with a shoddy reason. I am going to spend the rest of the day looking at the people in my null-scum list who I haven't properly analyzed yet. Quite a few of them had really dodgy reasons for hopping wagons.

Finally, can future vote tallies please be in the order of voting, rather than seemingly randomized? It's important to know who voted early, who hammered, and what votes in the middle were safe and which caused momentum swings. So here is the actual votecount:
+ Show Spoiler +

Everybody after Keirathi and ObviousOne is basically just hopping on "for consolidation" and their votes should be taken with a grain of salt. The interesting votes that I feel were cast without any real motivation are prplhz, Cora, Smurf and rayn.

Out of these I find Cora's to flow the most naturally: he mentions him a few times as scummy and then decides pushing his own read is unfeasible and hops on the Nisani wagon.

Prplhz is half-on half-off the wagon the entire time: he ninja-votes, he says he doesn't see what makes Nisani scum, then says Nisani is probably scum and then says Nisani's meta is unreadable and he might be town. And none of that seems well reasoned through. It seems more like a sheep vote than anything else, which is strange, because he'd be sheeping me and he seems to think I am scum.

Smurf I have discussed already. I think he's scum, so that right there is the justification for him being on the wagon.

Rayn is also a weird vote: he mentions Nisani quite a few times in a list of people he feels are scummy, but never really does anything about it until he feels he has to consolidate (way earlier than he actually has to). He then hops onto the Keirathi wagon, once again to consolidate: this time he hops OFF the leading wagon in order to consolidate, which just increases the chance of a no-lynch. And then jumps back onto Nisani. Given both Nisani is town and Keir probable town, this feels like "as long as a townie gets lynched, I'm cool with it" votes.

Marv deserves a special mention, because he was hard on the Nisani wagon, then starts up a counterwagon on Keirathi and then hops back onto Nisani when Keirathi claims mason. But this deserves more extensive analysis... have to decide whether this was town Marv being indecisive or scum Marv screwing around with the lynch.