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On March 26 2013 13:49 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 13:44 Keirathi wrote:On March 26 2013 13:20 Hapahauli wrote:
This game is anything but right now. All I have from you is
a) A couple of non-serious early-game votes
b) A bunch of wishy-washy attitudes on several players
Come on Hapa. Really? That goes against everything you know about scum marv. Hell, it directly contradicts the big case you pushed on him in GSL 3. Why you using backwards logic? :o The GSL III case was incredibly situational.
Err, what? How is a meta case 'situational'? That goes completely against the meaning of what meta is.
And its not like I'm even saying that I think that marv is town. You are right, he has seemed kind of emotionally distanced from the game, at least up until this point.
I just don't see how you can use those 2 points in one game to point to "this is how town marv plays", and then use the same 2 points in another game to say "we have scum marv this game". No sense does thou make.
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==Some thoughts on today's action==
+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:34 Keirathi wrote:On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? Because it doesn't matter a single bit how he reacts because the case was built on false information. Hell, if I was scum, I would love nothing more than for someone to make a case on me that I could so easily refute just by posting a few quotes from my previous games that wouldn't even be hard to find. The point of making "cases" isn't to convince the person they are scum. They are to convince everyone else that someone is scum. Plus, S&B was asking for opinions about his case. The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right.
Broken out, preserving the interaction above:
On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first?
I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing.
I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town:
If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that.
I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia:
If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim.
I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread.
So this interaction took me to Keirathi's filter where I found myself in a land of opinion-less posts and pseudo-random votes. This is not the town voice of Keirathi I remember from the Hydra game we played in together. It reminds me more of the safer and more timid Keirathi of 6 months ago, which was a safe way to play... the only town points in his favor IMO are that he derailed SNB's case for the right reason.
(An addendum for later--) It's demonstrably fact that Keirathi has essentially defended prplhz by attacking SNB's case which says nothing now about them individually but should be remembered in the late stages of the game if it's still pertinent.
Right now based on signal-to-noise ratio of Keirathi's filter, I'm calling him scum. What do you guys think?
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On March 26 2013 13:52 Nisani201 wrote:Acrofales seemed to be making a lot of sense at the beginning of the game and now he's looking really bad. He said this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:54 Acrofales wrote:
However, if you BELIEVE OO is lying about not having read his role PM; you should really be in favour of lynching him. The ONLY reason to LIE about this, is because he's scum. There is no townie reason to lie and say you have not read your role PM. The joking stage of the game is over and he's still trying to drag it on into seriousness. And looking back at his filter, he said a lot of things about how people should be interpreting OO's words without putting in his own opinion. And in general there isn't much real content in his filter. I think he's scum. ##vote acrofales
You are terrible. I made a lot of sense in the beginning of the game. My VERY FIRST serious post was my opinion on OO's claim. The rest of my filter has my opinion on DI, prplhz and Marv. Off the top of my head. Probably anything else that has been discussed in the thread too.
This game gonna be easy. Lynch the liar!
##vote Nisani201
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On March 26 2013 14:02 Nisani201 wrote:
The bold part doesn't mean anything, that's just what he had bolded in his post. The point is that that post is telling people to vote based on what's happening in the meaningless beginning parts of the game.
"Contentless" isn't about quantity, it's about how much of his posts have his own opinions on things. Which isn't really in his filter at all.
No no, I mean the part that I bolded. How does him criticizing other's opinions of OO make him scummy? You said he doesn't offer his own opinions, but I think he makes that pretty clear:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=8#157
He doesn't think that OO's stuff is idiotic, but non-allignment indicative, and criticizes those who are attacking him.
I don't know how prplhz is a primary suspicion in this game, he has 3 posts which all mean nothing.
Fair.
InsertSmurfHere's analysis on Dandel looks like scum bait. No one bit it, which is unfortunate but these things don't always work.
Scum-bait in the sense that InsertSmurf is scummy, or that it's a bad case and that scum will usually bite on such things?
I don't see anything weird about marv, is there a case on him? Because if there is then I don't remember reading it.
Nah I just posted something on Marv, and I think he's being a lot more passive in the early-game than I'm used to seeing out of him.
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On March 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote:+ Show Spoiler +==Some thoughts on today's action== + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:34 Keirathi wrote:On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? Because it doesn't matter a single bit how he reacts because the case was built on false information. Hell, if I was scum, I would love nothing more than for someone to make a case on me that I could so easily refute just by posting a few quotes from my previous games that wouldn't even be hard to find. The point of making "cases" isn't to convince the person they are scum. They are to convince everyone else that someone is scum. Plus, S&B was asking for opinions about his case. The problem with meta in this prplhz case is that it's the easiest thing in the world to fake. Even the dumbest idiot could probably fake their "town meta" by posting some general advice as their first post. Other than that part, you are right. Broken out, preserving the interaction above: On March 26 2013 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And given that you don't (at least you should not) know prplhz's alignment how exactly is it not beneficial to see how he reacts to the case first? I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing. I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town: If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that. I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia: If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim.
I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread. So this interaction took me to Keirathi's filter where I found myself in a land of opinion-less posts and pseudo-random votes. This is not the town voice of Keirathi I remember from the Hydra game we played in together. It reminds me more of the safer and more timid Keirathi of 6 months ago, which was a safe way to play... the only town points in his favor IMO are that he derailed SNB's case for the right reason. (An addendum for later--) It's demonstrably fact that Keirathi has essentially defended prplhz by attacking SNB's case which says nothing now about them individually but should be remembered in the late stages of the game if it's still pertinent. Right now based on signal-to-noise ratio of Keirathi's filter, I'm calling him scum. What do you guys think?
Oh god, I've created a monster.
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Dudes.
Why are you ignoring SnB's horrible case on Prp?
##Vote: strongandbig
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On March 26 2013 14:07 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 13:49 Hapahauli wrote:On March 26 2013 13:44 Keirathi wrote:On March 26 2013 13:20 Hapahauli wrote:
This game is anything but right now. All I have from you is
a) A couple of non-serious early-game votes
b) A bunch of wishy-washy attitudes on several players
Come on Hapa. Really? That goes against everything you know about scum marv. Hell, it directly contradicts the big case you pushed on him in GSL 3. Why you using backwards logic? :o The GSL III case was incredibly situational. Err, what? How is a meta case 'situational'? That goes completely against the meaning of what meta is. And its not like I'm even saying that I think that marv is town. You are right, he has seemed kind of emotionally distanced from the game, at least up until this point. I just don't see how you can use those 2 points in one game to point to "this is how town marv plays", and then use the same 2 points in another game to say "we have scum marv this game". No sense does thou make.
Dos't thou know'eth of how pressure works?
Anyway GSL III was incredibly situational. It was a case tailored to catch marv's lazy-scum meta, since marv had just played a large string of scum-games. This is NOT the case in this game.
Secondly, the points I brought up in GSL III and what I brought up here are not mutually exclusive. The stuff in GSL III (confidence, lack of suspicion, etc) were more in relation to his voting actions.
Anyway Kei, let's address your contributions to the thread right now. You apparently agree with some part of my suspicions, yet are questioning the most active/spammy player here. What's your objective purpose in that?
Secondly, you're quick to criticize my opinions, but haven't put forth any of yours. What are your thoughts on marv? Howabout InsertSmurfHere? Hell anyone.
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On March 26 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Dudes.
Why are you ignoring SnB's horrible case on Prp?
##Vote: strongandbig
What makes it scummy as opposed to a stupid townie thing?
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Acrofales was telling other people what they should do depending on whether they believed OO was lying. He did not mention if he thought OO was lying or not.
On March 26 2013 14:09 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +InsertSmurfHere's analysis on Dandel looks like scum bait. No one bit it, which is unfortunate but these things don't always work. Scum-bait in the sense that InsertSmurf is scummy, or that it's a bad case and that scum will usually bite on such things?
The latter.
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On March 26 2013 14:28 Nisani201 wrote:
Acrofales was telling other people what they should do depending on whether they believed OO was lying. He did not mention if he thought OO was lying or not.
I'll let Acro speak for himself on this.
That being said, I don't think it's alignment indicative.
On March 26 2013 14:09 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +InsertSmurfHere's analysis on Dandel looks like scum bait. No one bit it, which is unfortunate but these things don't always work. Scum-bait in the sense that InsertSmurf is scummy, or that it's a bad case and that scum will usually bite on such things?
The latter.[/QUOTE]
So what are your thoughts on Smurf himself?
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On March 26 2013 14:14 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway Kei, let's address your contributions to the thread right now. You apparently agree with some part of my suspicions, yet are questioning the most active/spammy player here. What's your objective purpose in that?
1) I don't care how active/spammy you are. I want to figure out your intentions. You have a good head on your shoulders, and the ability to reason through reads well. If you can't see why I did a double take when you posted that, then either you're blind or being obstinate for some reason. And I don't think you are blind, so I'm trying to figure out what that reasoning is.
2)My objective purpose is to shut down cases that I think have terrible reasoning. Or, parts of cases, in this situation. Same reason I responded about S&B's case on prplhz.
+ Show Spoiler +As an aside, I will *NEVER*, in any game, condone a day 1 lynch on marv (and will actively attempt to stop one if a bandwagon starts) unless he gets 100% caught with his pants down, so to speak. And, he's too good to slip up that bad as scum anyways. He's too big of an asset to town to mislynch, and even in bad games he still has the ability to destroy scum teams.
On March 26 2013 14:14 Hapahauli wrote:
Secondly, you're quick to criticize my opinions, but haven't put forth any of yours. What are your thoughts on marv? Howabout InsertSmurfHere? Hell anyone.
Not interested in marv. If he's town, he'll show it well enough.
Smurf: His meta stuff was bullshit, as you've already said. And I know that Dandel has some kind of personal grudge against marv for shit that happened 2 months ago, so the rest of his points kind of don't mean alot, but I can see where they were coming from at least. Mostly 'meh' on that part, tbh. The most interesting thing about the whole interaction was how he called Dandel a "spammy, scummy fucker" and then in the next post said "Oh, I guess you're content to let him lurk?" Can't lurk and be spammy.
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On March 26 2013 14:15 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Dudes.
Why are you ignoring SnB's horrible case on Prp?
##Vote: strongandbig What makes it scummy as opposed to a stupid townie thing?
Because it was stupid and SnB isnt stupid.
Like somethings you can brush away by saying that this dude is dumb, but some you cant.
It looked like he wanted to try and mislynch prp and now its gone HORRIBLY WRONG.
So he disappears.
Insertsmurfhere is not scum I think although dandel is null for me.
(YAY RANDOM READS OUTTA NOWHERE)
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@ Kei
I'm not advocating lynching marv on Day 1, and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that to you in previous games. However that does not mean his behavior right now is undeserved of scrutiny and pressure. 'Cause he's done nothing, and he generally loves spamming on Day 1 as town.
Like contrast his early-game in Hydra with his game in this one. It's pretty darn different.
@ Oats
Explain your "random reads out of nowhere" plz. Especially Smurf.
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On March 26 2013 14:43 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Oats
Explain your "random reads out of nowhere" plz. Especially Smurf.
His push on Dandel is wrong, but I could see a townie being all excited that this dude is matching his previous scum meta and posting a case based on that, especially if he is irritated by those posts.
Then he seems to be quite open about not looking at dandel's town games instead of finding shit that would incriminate dandel.
Dandel is being useless so therefore null.
Thoughts on SnB?
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On March 26 2013 14:45 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 14:43 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Oats
Explain your "random reads out of nowhere" plz. Especially Smurf. His push on Dandel is wrong, but I could see a townie being all excited that this dude is matching his previous scum meta and posting a case based on that, especially if he is irritated by those posts. Then he seems to be quite open about not looking at dandel's town games instead of finding shit that would incriminate dandel.
Yeah, but arriving at "not-Scum" is pretty extreme.
Thoughts on SnB?
Null. Haven't seen anything allignment indicative of him. I believe he's capable of making a case like that as scum or town.
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On March 26 2013 14:43 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Kei
I'm not advocating lynching marv on Day 1, and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that to you in previous games. However that does not mean his behavior right now is undeserved of scrutiny and pressure. 'Cause he's done nothing, and he generally loves spamming on Day 1 as town.
Like contrast his early-game in Hydra with his game in this one. It's pretty darn different.
Meh, it's different from Hydra, sure. But, it's not so different from some of his other town games. LVIII, Dwarfs, Can't Believe, etc come to mind from games that I played in.
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On March 26 2013 14:28 Nisani201 wrote:Acrofales was telling other people what they should do depending on whether they believed OO was lying. He did not mention if he thought OO was lying or not. Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 14:09 Hapahauli wrote:InsertSmurfHere's analysis on Dandel looks like scum bait. No one bit it, which is unfortunate but these things don't always work. Scum-bait in the sense that InsertSmurf is scummy, or that it's a bad case and that scum will usually bite on such things? The latter.
I believe I made it quite clear that it doesn't matter. I will judge his play as if he HAS read his role PM, but I choose to believe he hasn't.
All the claim does is put pressure on him to act as a townie, because if he uses it to be useless, then it increases the chance that he DID in fact read his role PM and is scum using the excuse to be useless and not be held accountable for his actions.
However, if he DOES act as a townie, then worst-case, he is scum with a chance of bussing his buddies. I don't mind scum who bus their scumbuddies at all. They're my favourite kind of scum. They then get caught lategame, because they'll have to survive umpteen lynches all by themselves (and if he still hasn't read his role PM, then he has to survive without KP, making it all the easier to catch him)
Now I have said that before. Twice, in different words and maybe not in this much detail. But it was my first few posts, when I was supposedly BEING USEFUL. How the fuck are you calling those posts useful without actually knowing their content?
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Well anyway I'm off to bed.
Need to hear more from a lot of players, particularly Grack, Marv, Smurf, and anyone who hasn't posted.
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On March 26 2013 14:54 Acrofales wrote:
However, if he DOES act as a townie, then worst-case, he is scum with a chance of bussing his buddies. I don't mind scum who bus their scumbuddies at all. They're my favourite kind of scum. They then get caught lategame, because they'll have to survive umpteen lynches all by themselves (and if he still hasn't read his role PM, then he has to survive without KP, making it all the easier to catch him)
Wait wait wait what?
How do you propose we catch this 'scum' who hasnt read his role pm? If you say that he acts like a townie, what differentiates him from the other townies? How does him having no KP make it easier?
Wtf acro.
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Anyways, I'm much more interested in Grack right now.
I wasn't particularly awed by Palmar's vote/case and Hapa's input, but his interactions afterward have been much worse IMO.
On March 26 2013 10:56 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:53 Palmar wrote:
Hello thread.
I have concluded that Grackaroni is scum. Please lynch him.
##Vote Grackaroni Any reason in particular?
He doesn't call out the bullshit vote. He panics, and questions it to figure out what he did wrong. I don't know any townie who reacts to a random vote on themselves by saying "OH GOD WHAT DID I DO?" Some get mad at the 'bad' play, some ignore it completely, and some vote the person back.
But, even more than that:
On March 26 2013 11:24 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:19 Palmar wrote:
If you're town I'm about to mislynch you grack. Do something to convince me you're not scum. I really don't think you will. Give me something in the thread you want me to respond to and I will give you my opinion. (not much has stood out to me so far). By the way I'm just curious. Do you remember me from any other games?
He's looking for a way out. He doesn't volunteer information, he wants to know what information Palmar wants, so that he can give the "right" answer, rather than a "real" answer.
And finally:
On March 26 2013 11:37 Grackaroni wrote:
You are problably town. This is the most interest I've seen you take in scumhunting in a long time. (even though I haven't played recently I've tried to keep reading games.)
I can see why that post may have looked scummy. I didn't make my message clear and it looked like I wasn't giving any opinion. I intended for it to be directed at Sinani because I believe him using that as a reason to push the lynch onto OO is much scummier than OO actually not reading his role PM.
the only hesitation I have (and it's a small one) is that in Werewolves I walked into the pm chat and you (as scum) just said that I was scummy after one line and used pushing me as your way of contributing to the thread. (it's possible that you are looking for me to omgus in a fit of anger and dig my own grave)
Despite this hesitation I do believe your posting is townie and I think you want to scumhunt but some past experiences with you do scare me.
On March 26 2013 12:56 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 12:49 strongandbig wrote:On March 26 2013 12:45 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't like the case on Dandel Ion. He seems to troll regardless of alignment so there's nothing in there that points to him being scum this game as opposed to just anti-town.
@ISH Why didn't you bother to look up a town game of Dandel Ion? u scum bro? No..... I know what you dislike. I didn't say anything about what I think of Dandel Ion or ISH in that post. But I wasn't intending to because I haven't drawn any conclusions on them from it. All i am saying is that I dislike the case and for good reason.
The bolded points feel like more "oh crap, I re-read my posts and realize I made some mistakes. Time for damage control". Like, he was already looking back at his posts to see how they LOOKED. His first reaction was to apologize for how they were perceived. THEN he explains himself better. It betrays his mindset of caring about his appearance.
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EPT
