EPTSomething to keep in mind is that not every student is going to learn the same way. For myself, I need immersion and first hand experience to absorb and master a system. Being a part of a game gives you a much more vested interest in keeping up with reading and analysis and, at least for me, put me into a game mindset as opposed to just reading a game in observer mode. The interaction / engagement were a huge boon in reading along.
Shadowing Players - Page 2
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Something to keep in mind is that not every student is going to learn the same way. For myself, I need immersion and first hand experience to absorb and master a system. Being a part of a game gives you a much more vested interest in keeping up with reading and analysis and, at least for me, put me into a game mindset as opposed to just reading a game in observer mode. The interaction / engagement were a huge boon in reading along. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I'm not too sure where a good balance would be - this might just come from testing these things out and getting good feedback from the shadows and players themselves. Maybe run a "shadow mafia mini" where everyone gets a shadow? I'd be down to host / play / shadow for that. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I would think that a town player would gain more of an advantage than a scum player though, because the shadow is a 3rd party that isnt really involved with the game, and could give a different perspective. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
There is much to learn from me. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I think this is a great idea. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
I agree with ObviousOne, shadowing is much more useful to me as a newbie than just observing a game. It gives me a vested interest in analyzing the game, and gives me someone to bounce my ideas off of (without worrying about saying stupid things in the obs qt). I do think shadowing could give players an advantage -- in a way it's like a secret hydra. I think it's really important to PM the host of the game to get permission before shadowing -- this way the host can deny the request if it's obviously imba. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
What was the purpose of X post? What would the result of doing Y be in this situation? Shouldn't you do Z instead or why not? The examples are simple but if you are a newer player you're not likely to significantly alter the shadoweded player's play. If a shadow does something to help their mentor improve how is that bad in the long run? GMarshal commented that shadowing would be a great way to increase the level of play and I don't see how that's bad as long as there's no cheating occurring. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
I also hope I helped warbaby learn about the joys of both meta and mentality. My favourite ways to find scum and town. As he said I think it is probably really helpful for new players to shadow more than one experienced player since we all have different ways of doing things. I had fun. I think war had fun and its an experience I would love to repeat. If anyone wants to shadow me in any game ever just send me a pm and I'll be happy to participate. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On March 10 2013 06:39 Blazinghand wrote: What were your thoughts, btw, on the idea of a "shadowing QT"? I liked the idea of coaching QTs and perhaps compiling shadowing QTs in the Op of this thread could provide an additional resource to new players This point may actually somewhat be useful in feeding the podcast discussions. Having shadow teams use QTs to record most of their contact (even if it's just pasted in from other places like PMs and the like) could become aggregate data from which to draw conclusions about common fallacies/failures in newbie play and invent something of a Ver's guide to analysis that can encapsulate further the way players should think (and post and question others) and really start bringing up the level of newbie play. Like it seems common for new players to focus on finding scum tells or scum claims that are really not too typically common. Looking for patterns in the questions they have that may never get voiced in the threads / post game because of disinterest or embarrassment can be alleviated if they are allowed discourse on those topics in a 1-on-1 environment. And they can be asked immediately instead of festering or going forgotten. +1 shadowing QT idea and aggregation for meta-analysis. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On March 10 2013 06:39 Blazinghand wrote: What were your thoughts, btw, on the idea of a "shadowing QT"? I liked the idea of coaching QTs and perhaps compiling shadowing QTs in the Op of this thread could provide an additional resource to new players I liked it. One minor problem which I didn't think of until after we started though was that war and I were both in the obs of LX while you the host and Vivax the player and DrH the player were alive in it. We could, theoretically have slipped on our knowledge of their alignments in a qt you had access to. I think shadowing qts being collected and disseminated as a newbie learning resource would be excellent. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On March 10 2013 06:51 Promethelax wrote: I liked it. One minor problem which I didn't think of until after we started though was that war and I were both in the obs of LX while you the host and Vivax the player and DrH the player were alive in it. We could, theoretically have slipped on our knowledge of their alignments in a qt you had access to. I think shadowing qts being collected and disseminated as a newbie learning resource would be excellent. The same sort of thing is of course possible if you and warbaby were the two scum in British, though, for example. Such is the nature of being in more than one game at a time. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On March 10 2013 06:39 Blazinghand wrote: What were your thoughts, btw, on the idea of a "shadowing QT"? I liked the idea of coaching QTs and perhaps compiling shadowing QTs in the Op of this thread could provide an additional resource to new players i would say i share a personal QT with a few players on this site. warbaby is probably shadowing me in Personality, and we'll use the QT that we already have up and running. I don't really want this QT shared around after games; mostly I have QTs for people so I can talk about things I only want them to see. For me, QTs have always been a pretty personal thing. Anyone who's read my scumgame QTs can attest that I let it all hang out in scumQTs (and generally I'd prefer if they weren't released, but I understand that for the sake of the game that they are released) | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
 also i generally find things like coaching/shadowing quite personal anyways. like I share PMs or talk on IRC with several players on this site, and i'm talking with them and not everyone else. that might just be me, though. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Is this only going one way or is fine both ways? Because I'd like to talk with the guy in question and have a discussion about it including my own thoughts instead of just listening to. As in: Am I supposed to not give away my thoughts on something because that would be considered help ? | ||
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