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TheRavensName
United States911 Posts
On March 14 2013 13:10 nobodywonder wrote: ^ For the swarm. Kill Luneth and then Omni. I'm tired of Luneth's BS, saying that he has been contributing to town. Nope. you haven't and lemme break down your contributions. You better start scumhunting. Apparently you need to vote then. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On March 14 2013 13:04 TheRavensName wrote: I'm from Hive Char, and I say kill em all. While admittedly we have some leeway due to how well day/night 1 went, the "kill them all" mindset is terrible. Scum are then free to pick which one of "all" end up being the lynch target and obviously it won't be scum. Or, more clearly, time is on scum's side. If we aren't deliberate and urgent about hitting SCUM, it doesn't take that many mislynches until we get to situations where we MUST lynch scum. "Lynch both" isn't even acceptable. You *MUST* pick one and provide a good reason why it should be that one today. If you want to vote the other one the next day, that is your prerogative. | ||
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bduddy
United States1326 Posts
##Vote: MLuneth | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 09 2013 04:57 nobodywonder wrote: Chew, you're UK you don't have much time to respond. I'd really like you to explain yourself. Ok, you believe that pressuring lurkers is good, but you're hesitant, since it's early game. So valid, yet you never pressure anyone. You're just content to sit back. As town, why would you do so? As scum, it's a perfect justification for lurking and waiting. This is so wishy-washy, your logic is confounded by however this, however that. Make a stand 1. Lynch lurkers maybe bad 2. Vote lurker may put pressure, I agree 3. If pressured lurker replies, then good 4. you summarize: lurkers could be questioned for reads, opinions? with pt 4, I'm wondering why don't you pursue lurkers then. You should some of questioning for reads, opinions and voting. All these actions contrast with your sudden vote on me You reserved so much judgment about getting lurkers, yet you are so eager to simply follow, at that time's Taco's vote on me. Hardcore sheep. If you're town, the only explanation is that you're a noobie, but I doubt it because I believe if you're town, you would show your thought process. Against me your only evidence is that I am scummy because I complain about lurkers and I have no contributions. But you, yourself, reserved judgment lurkers and have few contributions. Why are you so against my complaining? 1. Your sudden reversal from no lynch but pressure lurkers to vote me feels scummy. I feel it's a too convienent way for you to stay away from attention with your reserved judgment on lurkers. That combined with your lack of following your own policy seems very contradictory and if not scummy, is poor town play. 2. You havent actively contributed, and have only replied to questions. As town, why? You need to be proactive and get going. Stick your neck out. 3. Attacking me is an easy and convenient way out and is not consistent with your 1) lurker policy 2) lack of active contributions 4. Lastly you poked me with a question, I answered it. That would have a great moment for you to contribute and say what you feel about my then scumread Krafla to show your towniness. Why would you ever avoid an opportunity to contribute to the discussion. and now you have fell off the face of the earth after this vote. Rainbow and Meat called you out on this. I call out you too, you are one of my top scumreads. Explain yourself ##Unvote ##ChewOnStu I think it's important that you read this because NW does a very good break down on why Chew was stupid/bad/inconsistent. If you want to make the argument that I'm scum from that then go ahead, but it's an important read to setup the Luneth case. On March 07 2013 17:26 MLuneth wrote: While I believe that nobodywonder's actions have been suspicious and that his case is less than stellar, I feel that it is foolish to lynch someone who has made an addition to the game (albeit at this point small) should not be lynched over a person that has simply lurked for 2 days straight. I feel I need to point out that Frogon, as well as Krafla and Matriarch (to a lesser extent) have all input a similar amount of information as nobodywonder. EBWOP Forgot to add TheRavensName to above list of people that have done little At this stage with so little info to go on I can only flip a coin on whether to vote Artic Daishi or bduddy Coin said ##Vote: Arctic Daishi This post (with the following edit post) is scummy for multiple reasons. 1. NW's case was a good one for which Chew to which should have responded because it laid out where Chew was being stupid and inconsistent 2. Luneth calls NW suspicious. Why? There's literally nothing in the short filter previous to that to make us think that Luneth was suspicious of NW. There's also no reason given for finding NW suspicious other than shitting on NW's case. 3. Luneth takes what I read as a lynch all lurkers stance. Again, lurker lynching is an easy stance to take from either side, but it's very hard to be consistent with. He points out 4 players who have added little but DOESN"T try to pressure them in any way. Luneth follows up on point 3 by saying: On March 08 2013 14:51 MLuneth wrote: At this time I was more interested in getting everyone talking. How is telling people that they're lurking in any way trying to interact or force them to de-lurk/start posting? That makes no sense. If you want to interact with lurkers, then you need to interact with them. If they refuse to interact, then you choose to let them be modkilled/replaced OR you lynch them. There is no in between. Calling lurkers out, especially en masse, does nothing. 4. Luneth refuses to try and pressure said 4 players instead opting to try and put a "pressure vote" on a complete lurker. How is this in any way consistent? I'll call out these people, but not those people. I'm interested in trying to pressure this guy, but not that guy. It feels nothing but non-committal to me and not trying to get a positive atmosphere where many players can be under pressure for various reasons. So at point 1 Luneth argues that NW's case on Chew was bad. At points 3 and 4 Luneth wants to lynch/pressure lurkers. Where is point 5? On March 07 2013 17:26 MLuneth wrote: At this stage with so little info to go on I can only flip a coin on whether to vote Artic Daishi or bduddy On March 08 2013 14:51 MLuneth wrote: My view on Arctic Daishi at the time of Voting for him: My vote on Diashi was a coin flip between Daishi/BDuddy/ChewOnStu because none had made posts at this point. Notice the subtle change? I did. I don't give a damn who the coin selected, but he goes on to slam NW for putting forth effort and making a reasonable case that should be responded to only to change his mind and include Chew in the "Lurkers who need to get the fuck off the couch and start putting effort in" category. THIS IS NOT A TOWNY TRAIT! I don't see any town reason for discouraging effort only to surmise that Chew was a reasonable target after all. 6. There's a very key thing that needs to be pointed out regarding Luneth's vote on MLuneth: On March 08 2013 14:52 MLuneth wrote: My view at the time was and still remains is that unless I am confident that there is a high chance of an active person being scum I will Vote for an inactive scummy Lurker Luneth had this in two posts (apparently mis-editing spoilering). This was Luneth's stance and made the point to bold it and make it seen. What does Luneth do? Not vote for the scummy lurker. Not only that, Luneth does nothing to actively try and push NW or create a case against NW. NW was far more townie looking and active than some. Additionally, Luneth has no interest in voting for either of the inactive scummy lurkers aka Arctic/Chew who had votes on them. 7. Let's talk about some real hypocrisy. On March 08 2013 16:29 MLuneth wrote: ##Vote: nobodywonder This vote is basically the result suspiciously targeting lurkers but more importantly the lack of an acceptable coherent defence. Rainbow, it strikes me as odd that while you have accused/pressured people to find out their position on certain matters but your position is not clear. In what circumstances would you lynch a lurker? So targeting lurkers is now suspicious? Wait, isn't that exactly what your points previous have been? Then on top of that ask about when/why another player would lynch a lurker? WTF? 8. The amount of OMGUS in Luneth is great. 9. There's been almost no actual scum hunting from Luneth, just plain sheeping other people's votes/opinions. Implied Guilt On March 07 2013 12:55 MLuneth wrote: Last post was a joke, if that wasn't clear I think that Rainbow stated this first, but I know that when I first read Luneth's </3 post with the vote on Rainbows I instantly took it for a joke and ignored that as a banter post. Needing to explain it as a joke doesn't seem like something town would feel the need to do at all to me. The real problem however is: On March 07 2013 15:11 MLuneth wrote: that was a throwaway vote more than anything Would be very surprised if it doesn't change As this reads to me as wanting to make sure that people knew not to suspect Luneth for a stupid joke vote. I don't have a problem with town keeping a light/jokey atmosphere, but feeling the need to explain a dumb vote twice feels scummy to me. He further follows up to try and explain his AD vote by: On March 08 2013 14:51 MLuneth wrote: My view on Arctic Daishi at the time of Voting for him: To put it simply my Vote was a pressure vote to try and get Arctic to speak up (I'm saying this now because I believe that Arctic Daishi will stay afk). My vote on Diashi was a coin flip between Daishi/BDuddy/ChewOnStu because none had made posts at this point. There's also this real gem of a post here which WoS makes off of a bduddy post regarding OE's soft defenses of Arctic. If you read the included set of quotes they are all by Arctic or Omni which should make the question as to who WoS is asking clear: On March 09 2013 07:45 WaveofShadow wrote: bduddy pointed you out soft defending Daishi. You keep saying we'd learn nothing if he flipped? Well we might learn something about you. We'd certainly also learn something about his voting patterns and we might be able to figure out if the people he was bandwagoning were scum or not. Yet somehow Luneth seems very confused by it when posting: On March 09 2013 07:51 MLuneth wrote: (quoted text) Who was this directed at? Why is Luneth so interested in who's this directed at? Isn't it obvious? The only reasoning that makes sense to me is if Luneth is concerned that WoS is calling out Luneth. Read that filter and read it in context it's really bad. After reviewing things, I feel far more confident in voting MLuneth than Omni. ##unvote ##vote MLuneth | ||
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nobodywonder
United States848 Posts
Overall MLuneth's play is either scummy or extremely bad town. I'm still wondering that he kept his vote on me when it was rather obvious that the thread realized that AD was extremely scummy and voted him. I wouldn't feel too bad for his vote against me if he explained his reasons and showed why I was scummy. Yet he never explained his reasons, and this lack of explanations just doesn't make sense as a townie. As a townie, he could definitely contributed. ##Vote: MLuneth I hope that you MLuneth can do some explaining, otherwise a sad fate awaits you. If you're town, don't be a Taco. Get scumhunting, give us the best scumreads you have ever. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 14 2013 15:55 nobodywonder wrote: ^yee gl geript, nutter butter? yes plz On March 14 2013 15:55 nobodywonder wrote: If you're town, don't be a Taco. Get scumhunting, give us the best scumreads you have ever. seconded | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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nobodywonder
United States848 Posts
 Now, OE, man you gotta get back in here. No sheep plz. Sno, ya other not voter, you posted lots of stuff on policies on how to best play, well the best way is to scum hunt man. Follow your own advice and get scumhunting and urgent and deliberate. + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2013 02:27 Sn0_Man wrote: Arguing about town reads is pointless. The goal here is to identify and lynch scum. Plus, you should really avoid defending somebody until they have had a chance to defend themselves. There is *no* town reason to deflect pressure from another player, because their response is important information that town can use. Either they clear their own name and everybody is happy, or they incriminate themselves and we nail scum. Win-Win for town. It is NOT your responsibility to try and clear other peoples name (Unless ur scum trying to save a scumbuddy?) On March 14 2013 11:32 Sn0_Man wrote: At this point I really want to hear some kind of defense out of omni before I continue researching him. He hasn't had any real pressure on him previously so this ought to tell us a lot. On the other hand, he scrubbed out of my last mafia game with him due to PC issues so who knows whats up... @frorgon: Well I'm glad you are willing to push a read. I'm not really sold on MLuneth being too much scummier than, say, nobodywonder or krafla who are in very similar positions. I'm currently more interested in lynching geript (although he is bringing legitimate points against OE...). However, If we can't consolidate on scum anytime soon I'll have a good look at MLuneth's filter (since it really isn't that long and you are so dead-set on him). Just try not to get confirmation bias, find other scum as well. I think we all get the point that he is your top scumread. On March 14 2013 13:56 Sn0_Man wrote: While admittedly we have some leeway due to how well day/night 1 went, the "kill them all" mindset is terrible. Scum are then free to pick which one of "all" end up being the lynch target and obviously it won't be scum. Or, more clearly, time is on scum's side. If we aren't deliberate and urgent about hitting SCUM, it doesn't take that many mislynches until we get to situations where we MUST lynch scum. "Lynch both" isn't even acceptable. You *MUST* pick one and provide a good reason why it should be that one today. If you want to vote the other one the next day, that is your prerogative. | ||
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Frorgon
United States146 Posts
On March 14 2013 11:32 Sn0_Man wrote: At this point I really want to hear some kind of defense out of omni before I continue researching him. He hasn't had any real pressure on him previously so this ought to tell us a lot. On the other hand, he scrubbed out of my last mafia game with him due to PC issues so who knows whats up... I have a few problems with this post. One being that you want some defense from Omni before you research him. Don't wait for the defense, do research first, make a case, then ask for a defense. Back it up with a vote. If you're not gonna research anything before you hear a defense, why should Omni stop lurking? Also, I'm pretty sure referencing past games in this thread is a no-no and WoS was already warned for doing it. | ||
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Frorgon
United States146 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On March 14 2013 21:08 Frorgon wrote: I have a few problems with this post. One being that you want some defense from Omni before you research him. Don't wait for the defense, do research first, make a case, then ask for a defense. Back it up with a vote. If you're not gonna research anything before you hear a defense, why should Omni stop lurking? Also, I'm pretty sure referencing past games in this thread is a no-no and WoS was already warned for doing it. Referencing ONGOING games is taboo. Past games are legit. Feel free to PM a host to confirm. I'm still not 100% sold on Omni being scum, so I want to hear him defend himself. I then want to go through his filter in light of his defense and try to poke holes in it. I'd say that we have enough accusations in front of him that if he DOESN'T respond its probably correct to just lynch him. Digging through his filter and deciding that he looks townie doesn't help because again, it is absolutely not my job to deflect pressure from another player. They need to stand up to it and show us who they are. In other news, it looks like some consolidation is happening, which is good. I'll read through the cases in a bit. I never vote without very serious intent to lynch. At this point I don't feel like I can say with certainty who we should lynch today so I'm not voting until I'm reasonably sure. I still feel like somebody has got to be responsible for the mislynch yesterday and you are going to have a hard time convincing me that that is MLuneth... (I still think it's either geript for mucking up the thread or, as others are pointing out, Omni but he won't defend himself...) Actually, it feels a bit like Omni is getting out of this lynch by... being afk? :/ So we target somebody else because they respond... (admittedly, MLuneth seems to be digging himself a hole every time he opens his mouth). PS: I haven't made any real cases because I wanted to experience how all of you are playing in real time. Re-reading the thread and/or simple filter-diving leaves out a lot of important context. As I feel like I'm getting a better grip on players I feel like I can make decent cases that have a real chance of nailing scum. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Bduddy, who has done stone nothing all game, has received a completely free ride. Day 1, he lurks around and is "busy IRL" (often true but also often a scum excuse to lurk). He eventually gets on the popular wagon after AD essentially scum-claims. After day 1 he has successfully blended in and looks pretty null. Night 1, he posts some silly garbage about ##Unvoting and stuff, no real contribution ("Saving it for the day" or some garbage). Day 2, he is quick to cast suspicion on a perfectly legitimate blue-claim by Krafla. When there is an uncontested blue claim, that is a pretty easy confirmed town since it's pretty suicidal to false-claim there as scum. Bduddy doesn't want Krafla's claim to be accepted, despite the fact that it is an uncontested blue claim. Thats REALLY scummy. Beyond that, Bduddy feels the need to post things like this: On March 10 2013 11:26 bduddy wrote: The main difference was that CoS posted nothing, AD posted scummy posts. CoS definitely needs to remain under suspicion, but it's possible at this point that he's just away from the Internet for some reason. Cluttering up the thread with comments on somebody who just replaced out. Admittedly this could be a simple mistake but it still doesn't look very good. Next up, bduddy's day 2 vote: On March 11 2013 06:35 bduddy wrote: ...yeah, that does make sense as well, I had forgotten about your post. Sorry for acting like such an idiot, I'm just not used to playing with roles like this (or serious Mafia games at all, really). Considering that all of my other cases have been shit, I'm starting to come around to the arguments about MeatlessTaco. In fact, until he comes up with some good answers, ##Vote: MeatlessTaco First, he plays the noob card. "Im sorry i'm bad and my cases are bad don't hold me to standards just let me be useless to town"... Next, Blatant sheep: "I trust you guys my cases are bad here let me sound legit as I put my vote on a Town player" What kind of garbage is that? He never even attempts to justify this vote, he just leaves it there while also pointing fingers at virtually half the thread with posts like: On March 11 2013 06:52 bduddy wrote: Don't worry, I'm still keeping my eye on OE - we have time, after all. But MT's posting has just been terrible in general, and I want to see what he has to say about the accusations against him. And On March 11 2013 10:43 bduddy wrote: I mean... Matriarch also is by far the worst lurker left. If she comes back in a similar manner as AD, well, hopefully we can end up with the same result (unless scum/AWOLs mean we can't switch fast enough...) Then, On March 11 2013 15:13 bduddy wrote: ...WTF is up with you? I know you've been active (occasionally) and tried to provoke responses out of people, but you're getting ridiculous at this point, and I don't mean ridiculously helpful. Nowhere is he trying to push a read, he's just throwing shit everywhere. And nobody calls him out on it anymore (after his previous "I'm so sorry I noob let me sheep plz" vote on taco everybody was content that he had his vote down... derp). Immediately after the mislynch he is super-eager to get matriarch mod-killed instead of replaced, with posts like On March 12 2013 10:48 bduddy wrote: Going by the rules Matriarch has to be modkilled, so that will also be... somewhat useful, at least. and On March 13 2013 02:45 bduddy wrote:I don't want to try to get too much into the motivations of the host, but it seems more likely that he would refuse to modkill Matriarch if she was mafia Its fairly clear that Bduddy is a bit over-interested in getting people mod-killed instead of a more town-favoured replacement (modkills are statistically more likely to harm town than help them). Since then, he has made a total of 5 posts. The first was "Sn0_man make posts plz". Okay bro, thanks for the tip... :/ The next 2 were yet another blatant attempt to discredit our uncontested blue claim... (seriously, scum don't blue-claim like that. It makes no sense). The last 2 took an entire day to make between them... one was trying to describe Rainbow's silly vote on geript as "Pressuring" MLuneth... basically not a post. The last one was this: On March 14 2013 15:02 bduddy wrote: I agree with Rainbow's case on MLuneth, his last post was just ridiculous. His AD "coin flip" vote seems suspicious to me (an easy way to say "but I voted for him early!" (ed. note: saying you're voting for someone because of a coin flip and then quickly switching is not a good way to "pressure" someone) and his last post just makes absolutely no sense in the context of what he actually did D1. He never switched his vote back to AD, and has been defending OE (who I'm still very suspicious of) for the whole game. Also, he hasn't contributed particularly much in general; his incredibly weak "case" on geript is based mostly on more OE defending and the fact that he voted MT... you know, like most of the rest of the town. ##Vote: MLuneth Back to sheepville where he basically copy+pastes the highlights of rainbows case and calls it a wrap. Calls out MLuneth for making a weak case despite not having made any real case since... Day 1. Happy to park his vote on what is clearly the going wagon at the moment. This just strikes me wrong. At this point, I'm having a hard time really deciding who I think is most likely to be scum. Really, I'd like to lynch geript today for blatantly shitting up the thread, but that clearly isn't going to happen. I honestly think Bduddy is more likely to be scum than either Omni or MLuneth, so I'm presenting my case on him, but there seems to be a lot of confirmation bias going on in this thread already directed at those 2. Again, I'll revisit omni once he returns to the thread, and while I don't disagree with some of the points brought up on MLuneth his lynch just looks too easy right now. It might be the right one, but in all my previous games the easy wagon has been the wrong one. PS: Oh god that was long | ||
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
In short, we should lynch MLuneth today. If he flips scum, I have his scumbuddy pinned methinks. If he's town, I need to rethink the entire game, and dbuddy is a good start to be doing that. But I don't think MLuneth flips town here, ever. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On March 15 2013 02:05 geript wrote: Yah, Sno, I was looking at him last night when I looked at Luneth. I didn't want to bring him up yet to disrupt the Luneth lynch, but he's definitely in my "zone" for tomorrow. On March 15 2013 02:04 Rainbows wrote: ^ I was thinking along the same lines with bduddys vote on MLuneth which was shady as fuck. It's not a bad case. But imo everything comes back to the NW votes, where people on it were trying to push the mislynch rather than the scum lynch. 3 people left (sides the 1 blue)... In short, we should lynch MLuneth today. If he flips scum, I have his scumbuddy pinned methinks. If he's town, I need to rethink the entire game, and dbuddy is a good start to be doing that. But I don't think MLuneth flips town here, ever. ORLY? Nobody had even posted a whiff of suspicion in his direction all game (except some silly "pressure" votes early D1 when he was full-on lurker mode). EVERYBODY deserves to be pressured, to see how they react. Also geript, You've been pushing an OE lynch forever, then all of a sudden you "Don't want to disrupt the Luneth lynch" but somebody you never mentioned is "in your zone for tomorrow". Will you ever contribute to this game? I still don't see why nobody else wants to lynch you... :/ | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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Rainbows
Germany1217 Posts
On March 15 2013 02:12 Sn0_Man wrote: ORLY? Nobody had even posted a whiff of suspicion in his direction all game (except some silly "pressure" votes early D1 when he was full-on lurker mode). EVERYBODY deserves to be pressured, to see how they react. Also geript, You've been pushing an OE lynch forever, then all of a sudden you "Don't want to disrupt the Luneth lynch" but somebody you never mentioned is "in your zone for tomorrow". Will you ever contribute to this game? I still don't see why nobody else wants to lynch you... :/ YARLY that is all. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18240 Posts
OmniEulogy (1): MLuneth (6): Frorgon, Krafla, geript (1): No vote: sn0_man, OmniEulogy MLuneth is currently set to be lynched. ~7 hours until the deadline. Voting is mandatory. Please remember to bold your votes, and to unvote if you've previously voted for someone else. If there's a mistake, let me know! | ||
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