EPT/obs for now
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVII
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
/obs for now | ||
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warbaby
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Fellow players! Forget about all those guides with lots of words and good ideas. Instead, I humbly present; WB's Guide to Winning Mafia
+ Show Spoiler + THIS GUIDE IS DISTRIBUTED IN THE HOPE THAT IT WILL BE USEFUL, BUT WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY. IT IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE GUIDE IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE GUIDE PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION. IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW THE AUTHOR WILL BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE GUIDE (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE GUIDE TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER GUIDES), EVEN IF THE AUTHOR HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. | ||
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warbaby
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On February 05 2013 00:01 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh man, now I'm worried that this newbie game is going to be too complicated for my addled, sleep-deprived brain. Also, need moar people to join so this game isn't at its peak during my midterms.... Just my $0.02, Don't get stressed and worried. I did that last game and it was a huge mistake. You have one or more great, awesome, wonderful, and certainly handsome or beautiful coach(es), so if you're worried you don't understand what's going on, you can PM them. They | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Are you a smurf? This game is for muppets, not smurfs! On February 05 2013 06:23 austinmcc wrote: Yes. A beard is just an admission that one isn't manly enough to sport a 'stache. In less beard-related news, moar signups! What about a beard and a stache? Who cares if the stache is in fact manlier than the beard? The beard still exists, and you may not deny it's glory. Or do you actually consider beards to be a superset of staches? (RIDICULOUS) Anyway, with advice like this, I hope I roll scum. edit: Further proof that austin is completely misguided in his moustache analysis. The best staches are the least manly. e2: although I suppose I could be wrong... | ||
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 However I will not be your lover. Keep your dirty beard away from my plush, felty muppet merkin! | ||
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I have enough spare time (and loose marbles) that I could probably run 3 or 4 smurfs at once, but it'd be cheating  | ||
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Part of me wants this game to take forever to fill up (or even /out), so I can catch up on work. But the other part of me likes playing mafia way more than doing work. T_T | ||
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On February 07 2013 03:31 WaveofShadow wrote: You're assuming people are going to read your blog lololol. lol yes, that was probably not a sound assumption. Also, I really would suggest people don't read anything I post. It's best for everyone that way. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + hue hue | ||
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e: Just kidding! I only like you in a non-erotic way, Corazon. | ||
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I'm the Yin to your Yang, the Abbot to your Costello, the Bert to your Ernie. e: Well, more like the Ernie to your Bert | ||
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On February 08 2013 06:58 Promethelax wrote: And Warbaby, did we go to high school together? That just sounds so familiar. Probably not. I went to several high schools and they all had some kind of room like that. Teenagers will be horny, and public schools will have asbestos closets. It's only natural. | ||
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We've got quite a while left to beat it :D | ||
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On January 28 2013 09:41 Dandel Ion wrote: ![[image loading]](http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif) :O ##Vote: Dandel Ion | ||
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warbaby
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I'd be OK with that, but it could hurt our goal to make the longest newbie pregame ever. | ||
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warbaby
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My platform focuses on determining whether The Count has enough bats to accurately perform vote counts in a 13 player game. I will push for more funding (by issuance of federally denominated esports bonds) to hire the best private muppet investigators available, in order to fully vet The Count before he is nominated for such a critical position. + Show Spoiler + Vote early! Vote often! Vote warbaby! | ||
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On February 08 2013 23:20 JacobStrangelove wrote: WIFOM all night long. My WIFOM-all-night-long theme song. ![[image loading]](http://www.adiumxtras.com/images/thumbs/oscar_the_grouch_duck_dock_icons_5701172_thumb.png){kind=icon} | ||
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So you should probably just take it easy and enjoy the game~ | ||
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On February 09 2013 01:31 WaveofShadow wrote: I have no fucking clue what's going on in hurr. On January 28 2013 09:37 Acrofales wrote: Clues: There are no clues anywhere. | ||
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e: we'll call it sleeping dogs mafia | ||
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Probably wouldn't be too interesting =/ Sleeping Dogs wasn't a particularly great game or anything (just senseless fun). | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Condescending Hipster Mode Active] + I started reading the books years before the (also amazingly good) HBO show came out. Second best fantasy series I ever read -- although I don't read a lot of fantasy. | ||
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I have been told by reputable sources that there are better fantasy series than Ice and Fire (GoT), but I'm really not that big on fantasy. | ||
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On February 10 2013 12:11 Mocsta wrote: lol link doesnt work doppleganger It works here Maybe a youtube regional restriction? | ||
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On February 10 2013 13:27 Sn0_Man wrote: Yah game starts in like... 20.5 hours I think? something like that. I believe this is correct. Mocsta your time converter tool is trippin. | ||
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warbaby
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The problem I see with RNG is how can we trust somebody to do the RNG? What if they're scum and they just pick a random town? If we all RNG separately, the scums can pretend they happened to RNG the same number and drive a "RNG" lynch on a town. I'm not against the idea, but if you want to RNG we need a method that isn't easy for scums to manipulate. If there are not any obvious scum or lurkers to lynch, it does make sense to have some kind of fall-back plan. | ||
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Would this be cheating? | ||
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On February 10 2013 14:28 Mocsta wrote: Its simple, someone screen records them going to randomnumbergenerator website; lists 1-13 as limits and receives a number. Posts it on youtube or whatever and links to the thread. That way we know they arent listing a number enforcing their agenda. If thats too hard, just use skype for vid feed whatever. I won't speak for others, but I could easily make a fake video of me using random.org to produce any number I want. It would take me less than half an hour, most likely. I could even do it live on skype and you would not be able to tell. Further this is probably against the No PM's rule in spirit. This is not an acceptable solution IMO. e: If you're curious: wget -r random.org; edit the javascript to produce random numbers that do not correspond to a scum player; host the edited website in a vm; edit your 'hosts' file (or local dns server configuration) to point dns lookups to random.org at said vm. This will defeat even the most careful scrutiny during a live skype desktop share. Same technique can apply to flash random generators, although with more effort required to decompile the flash file and edit the actionscript. | ||
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I agree with geript, with the exemption that some any super obvious scumslip on D1 should be lynchable. We can still "scumhunt" D1, but it is very probable we won't succeed. With any luck there will be an obvious lurker and we can just lynch them D1. Lurking town is useless, and really terrible scum tend to lurk too. | ||
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e: probably still easily fake-able (even live) if you're a video processing wizard, but I don't really know (I'm a software wizard by profession ) | ||
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I'm not sold on RNG though, and I think using a predetermined RNG from the pre-game is probably cheating. The difference between (unmanipulated) RNG and trying to lynch a scum (absent an obvious scumslip) is huge. Scums use their information advantage to lead the bandwagon on D1 to make sure a town is lynched. They can use multiple town targets to obfuscate their voting patterns. True RNG is random, which a D1 "scumhunt" will never be. e: To clarify, a true RNG has a chance of hitting scum D1. Absent terribly bad scum play, trying to hunt scum D1 has a 100% chance of lynching a town (although there can be information in the voting patterns). | ||
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e: not to be a jerk, but you've made your proposal and we need to hear from the other players (and maybe a host) on whether your proposal is acceptable. | ||
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On February 10 2013 16:23 Mocsta wrote: OooO Warbaby you were meant to be my clone. The line is drawn in the sand I see. Its Ok my dear  On February 10 2013 16:21 warbaby wrote: e: not to be a jerk, but you've made your proposal and we need to hear from the other players (and maybe a host) on whether your proposal is acceptable. | ||
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The idea could have had some merit. Lynching scum D1 is not likely, and a properly run RNG (used as a last resort) could have a higher probability to actually hit a scum than the alternatives. That aside, I'm surprised people aren't talking about lynching lurkers more. It seems like an especially useful strategy in newbie games, where the scum may be inexperienced and literally afraid to post (see the post-game comments in nmm36 by glurio and slayalot). Obviously there can be lurking town, too (omg I signed up for this insane game and now I have to read 100 posts a day? cya!) On February 10 2013 16:56 cDgCorazon wrote: No RNG. Lynch the scummiest players always. Keep it simple fellas. So are lurkers scummy? I'm not sure I'd agree 100%. You can't keep it too simple. | ||
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1: instead of killing me D1 and preventing my N1 save on zarepath, that is. edit: not to imply that you were going to kill me D1, just an as example of what D1 scumreads are like. I thought acid might be scummy in '36 d1 but I was also wrong. | ||
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I'd like to post basically the same thing I did at the beginning of NMM 36. Hopefully these simple points will help create a constructive town atmosphere.
I failed on the last 2 points in NMM 36, so I'm going to try to improve in that regard. I also will be more busy with work than I was during NMM 36, so I may not be posting as often (I'll try to make up for this by making higher quality posts). GLHF everyone  P.S. Voting me for being terrible is clearly a great strategy. Waka waka! | ||
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On February 11 2013 09:53 glurio wrote: My take on policy lurker lynch is the same as always: scumread -> scummy lurker -> lurker. Glurio posted this last game and I still agree with this rubric. Also whatever guys, if you want to vote me for posting good ideas for town that you agree with, go ahead. That's why I got mislynched in '36 and now it's up for nomination as the worst lynch in 2013. I suppose you want to top '36 by mislynching me D1? :D | ||
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On February 11 2013 09:50 cDgCorazon wrote: Seriously can we drop the RNG shit? It's stupid to even think about it. Why play mafia if we are going to sit around and let RNG play the game instead of us? Seconded. If we were going to do RNG we had negotiate it pre-game (to avoid scums manipulating it). We failed. There's no way I can agree to RNG now. | ||
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9-Bit Sevryn Macheji zarepath * Mandalor * * = expressed in pre-game that they would not be around at the start of D1 Start time was not a surprise; the non-* players should be posting soon please :D | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:30 Mocsta wrote: warbaby, if I may come out of hibernation. Thanks for the updated summary list. So far, you are the guy I dont like the most and I am going to outline the reasons below. #1 - In your entry you specified its direct from your last town game (i.e. soft claim for town) If you want to re-use ice-breakers, do it... why specify its from your town game #2 - Summary lists are an easy way to contribute, without contributing All of us can easily do a filter click, off page1 + its pretty obvious we going through a USA/Europe vs Oceania shift #3 - You even make comments alluding you to your "good ideas = town play" concept from your last game Why are you trying SO SO hard to associate your self with being town? The above is not worthy of a vote (yet), but I would appreciate your feedback to the above. So you have a problem with me claiming that I'm being pro-town? You clearly did not read the post-game analysis in '36. Claiming town is not a scummy thing to do. Would you prefer I claim scum? That's not possible since it would be suiciding as town (which is against town wincon) and suiciding as scum (which is against scum wincon). I'm not trying to trick you into thinking I'm town. I had to defend myself against these ridiculous claims in '36, until I was finally mislynched for it. Unlike you, I am not beating around the bush and posting a bunch of crap about RNG and whining about other people's efforts to promote a useful town environment. I'm listing lurkers because Corazon did it D1 in '36 and it was helpful. Corazon was town in '36 and so am I, right now, in '37. | ||
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It is the town, and it's members shall think for themselves and analyze the thread before doing stupid things. Please. | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:50 Mocsta wrote: warbaby, perhaps I am over-reading things; but when I last played scum, I did a very similar tact to yourself. Hence, I am a bit more aware of the cues to look out for. Yes, you are over-reading things. Your scum play, which failed (and thus is not worthy of being copied) seemed to be based on posting so much off-base over analysis of everything that you literally drowned out any voice of reason in the legitimate town. My posts so far have either been suggesting ways town can play better (my first post) or helping town keep track of who's posted, and who hasn't. Since we've both posted plenty, how about we not post for a while? | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Warbaby, this sure as hell is my town as I'm a part of it and I care about it. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm telling or leading people not to think for themselves or that I'm doing something stupid. That's cool. The more important point I was trying to make is that towns need to think for themselves -- cooperation is necessary but I also value an independent mind. Trying to boss people around at this point won't help, but you're right that you aren't the person doing that the most right now (I'd say it's Mocsta, but that's just his ego showing). | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:58 cDgCorazon wrote: @WB: Do you mean VT or some other blue role? If it makes you feel better, you have a 100% telling-the-truth rate when it comes to claiming roles. I won't claim my actual role right now (just that my alignment is not mafia rofl), but if we get to a point later (d2+) where others are considering claiming, I will not hesitate this time. | ||
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You guys are repeating your mistakes from 36, plain and simple. Maybe you're bad at mafia, and you're jealous that I actually tried to make contributions that could help town, instead of waving my dick around. I honestly don't give a shit anymore. Go ahead and mislynch me, so I can make fun of you all (again) in the obs qt. Maybe I'll even be named town MVP again (it's not hard with competition like this). | ||
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On February 11 2013 18:41 Sylencia wrote: If he's actually blue, dumb move unless he plans to Vig shot someone on night 1 and hoping for a 1:1 trade? Alternatively if he's a vet aiming to prolong the life of the town - but even then that's a questionable move. Being the SK with bulletproof wouldn't help too much since he will still end up suffering the same fate as the Vig of being shot over 2 nights. Helps town more than scum. VT taking a bullet for the team is also a possibility here, but I don't understand why such a seed needs to be planted to early on. Basically, I'm leaning towards either scum or vig on warbaby. Are you fucking dense? Scum already knows who the towns are. All I'm saying is I'm town. They (the scum) already know that. I could give away more information (like a blue role) later on, but I haven't done that yet. Why are you saying I'm claiming a blue role when I've done nothing of the sort? You must be fucking dense. | ||
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On February 11 2013 14:46 cDgCorazon wrote: This is the scummiest part. If you are town, you should be trying to prove that your claim is true, and not kill discussion right when it starts to pick up. For these reasons, you are getting my vote for the time being. If you are really town, you should have no trouble proving your innocence. I was trying to get Mocsta to shut up because he's an idiot and bad at this game (look at his play in the non-newbie games, it's atrocious and people have called him out for it). | ||
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1) I made a pro-town post. How am I supposed to make a pro-town post without soft claiming town? It's not possible. 2) I get attacked for claiming town D1, just like I did in '36' 3) Now I can't post anything, because I'm accused of dodging the (bullshit) accusations against me. If I call out the accusations as bullshit produced by small minds (which they are), then I'm accused of defending myself from the accusations against me. Wat? It's a catch-22, just like in '36. And like in '36, I plead people to look at my filter and see how I was trying to be helpful, trying to make decent contributions for town, and am literally being shit all over as a result. Since I was told after '36 that my play as town was not bad, I tried to play the same this game (because, shockingly, I'm town in this game as well). Apparently that was bad advice? So I'm sick of it. Apparently posting actually useful pro-town advice at the beginning of a newbie game is too much for the newbies to handle. Since the whole thread is now de-railed into this bullshit case against me, I can't even contribute anything useful anymore without being accused of dodging. So, honestly, I don't give a shit. It's a newbie game. I could still win as town if you mislynch me (like in '36). So have at it. | ||
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On February 11 2013 21:06 Mocsta wrote: Firstly. U obviously have not read the games. What u say is simply not true. Secondly it is against rules to discuss ongoing games. Pls dont reference me in live games again.. I was referencing LIX, which is over. | ||
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On February 11 2013 21:17 Mandalor wrote: Now, the martyring certainly changed things for me. I don't understand why a former MVP would get so aggressive and condescending this early in the game. It pisses me off after I got named town MVP in my last game, I try to repeat my playstyle in the next game (in order to be useful to town!) and I get shit all over for it. I figured you guys would understand my play style (which seems to be valid based on '36 post-game analysis). Apparently you don't, and I just honestly don't care about this game enough to defend myself against accusations that are this stupid. If you're upset that I'm giving up this early, I would consider requesting a replacement. Just let me know if you'd prefer to shit all over someone other than me. | ||
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On February 11 2013 21:27 Mandalor wrote: That is precisely why people are onto you, especially since you openly said it. As scum, you would try to copy your town meta, and you even mentioning that looks a lot like a scumslip. Honestly, if you can't cope with getting attacked in a mafia game, this game really isn't for you. If I'm town, would I not copy my previously successful town play from the last game I was town? Which included being mislynched by horrible players who have no idea what a scumtell actually looks like... I've never played scum, so you have no idea what my scum meta looks like. I have played town, and if you think my town meta this game is off, it's because I'm absolutely sick to death of having to defend myself the entire game (which is also what happened in '36). I'm being condescending because it's mind boggling that people like Corazon would make the same mistake two games in a row. | ||
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On February 11 2013 23:23 Sylencia wrote: Of course scum knows who is town and who is not - they don't know who is blue and who is not though. Your wording in the original statement 'I won't claim my actual role right now' telegraphs you have something to actually claim. Yes, I'm not going to claim my role D1 because the mafia does not know my role. This could imply that I'm the death miller serial killer (that was a joke from the pre-game, btw), or it could imply that I'm just Vanilla Town. I'm still in favor of lynching a lurker, and there are some pretty good candidates, still. Glad to see that zarepath and Mandalor are here now. | ||
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You understand the difference between alignment and role, right? I agree that there could be scummy motiviations in the ridiculous case against me, but I can't really pursue this avenue without being accused of OMGUS. I encourage you and others to look at this more. | ||
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On February 11 2013 23:46 Mocsta wrote:I think a town player is confident in their role PM and has no need to be this hysterical, derogatory or ad-hominem so early. This is amusing coming from the guy making a bunch of hysterical wall of text posts, desperate to appear to be scum hunting. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I call out stupid when I see it. This is confirmed by my meta (and the post-game analysis) in '36. | ||
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I'm referencing '36 because my play this game mirrors '36, and I'm hoping someone with half a brain will understand my meta: I made useful suggestions on how town can play well, idiots mislynch me for terrible reasons and I try to defend myself while hunting scum. Except this time I'm sick of fending off idiots for the whole game. | ||
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It's hard to say that the people who have voted me are scum, since they are making effort in their case (even if I personally think it's a stupid case). Sn0_man has not put in effort, he just made some noises about me and ditched out, without even an FoS. Is he egging on the bandwagon, and waiting to vote until it's a sure thing? | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:18 warbaby wrote: Your RNG idea wasn't even bad. We just needed to work it out in pre-game, and we failed. I was trying to support your ideas in pre-game, Mocsta (by pushing you to improve the idea). It's hard to say that the people who have voted me are scum, since they are making effort in their case (even if I personally think it's a stupid case). Sn0_man has not put in effort, he just made some noises about me and ditched out, without even an FoS. Is he egging on the bandwagon, and waiting to vote until it's a sure thing? EBWOP: I looked at sn0's filter and he didn't really attack me at all. So I retract that last sentence. I'll try to stop being less defensive. | ||
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I'm not voting until we've had more time for the remaining lurkers to report in, and Shadow can respond to zarepath. I agree with zarepath that the people actually voting me aren't looking that scummy; compared to those just trawling for a convenient bandwagon. | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:52 Mocsta wrote: are really contradictory to ideal town play No u. Good night and sweet dreams :3 | ||
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We all know you have a problem with me. You don't need to spam up the thread asking other people to confirm your bias. | ||
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##Vote: 9-Bit Normally I wouldn't tell anybody "do xyz and I'll unvote you" but in this case, simply make a few posts (that aren't blatantly scummy) and I'll unvote you. | ||
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Does it make sense for us to all vote the same zero-post player, or spread out our anti-lurker votes among all the zero-post players? The point is to lynch lurkers, not just vote for them. But we're also pretty far from the deadline. | ||
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On February 12 2013 01:33 Sn0_Man wrote: I would have though it more kosher for you to target one of the other 2 lurkers, if nothing else. 2 lurkers with 1 vote each are not going to feel much pressure. Pressure only works if the person you're pressuring actually thinks there's a chance they're going to be lynched if they don't respond to the pressure. | ||
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On February 12 2013 01:38 Sevryn wrote: yes but your only putting pressure on one lurker. and there is a pretty good chance a townie is scum so if you are going to pressure vote lurkers you should pressure vote all of them so they post and you can get a real read. any pressure vote now however is not going to be very effective because you came out and said it was just for pressure. LAL should not even be seriously considered until closer to the end of day 1 IMO when we will actually lynch the lurkers You're right, we shouldn't consolidate LAL votes until much closer to the deadline. But what is even the point of putting 1 vote on each lurker? It's not going to make them feel much pressure if there's (at that time) no chance of them actually being lynched. Anyway, you are right that we shouldn't consolidate now. I didn't think of that -- I'm trying to get work done today and I'm not paying 100% attention to the game right now (I work Mon-Fri 9-5 EST). ##Unvote Voting nobody for now. Still FoS WaveofShadow. | ||
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Mocsta's play is a bit like his scum play in XXXV, but maybe it's also his idea of optimal town play (which is why he tried to do it as scum in 35 -- as a ruse). I don't see anything scummy in what Mocsta's done (other than some meta wifom crap based on his play in 35). I'm not dismissing the scum Mocsta idea, but I think zarepath's case on WaveofShadow is much more concrete at this point. I'm waiting to hear more from WaveofShadow before I consider voting him. I am also more interested in lynching lurkers (than Mocsta) if WoS makes a non-scummy defense. I do not really count glurio as a lurker -- his last post was very atypical of his scum play in 36 and counts as a real contribution in my book. I also expect he'll continue making decent contributions before D1 is over. | ||
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On February 12 2013 05:44 Sn0_Man wrote: @Warbaby care to clarify what part of Glurio's post is particularly townie compared to last game? I fully expect that, were he to roll scum again, he would up his game at least a bit with respect to looking more townie as scum. So one kinda OK post isn't gonna clear his name. I added some notes to the glurio post I was referencing, below. I'm not saying I think glurio is town, I'm just saying his contribution was less scummy than those in the last game (when he was scum). Also WoS's post is a start in the right direction. IMO none of the proposed cases have enough merit to be worth voting scum at this point. And I don't see why we'd want to lynch glurio right now, over someone with actually zero posts. + Show Spoiler [glurio's post + notes] + On February 11 2013 23:33 glurio wrote: Posting a shitload of fluff, useless RNG and grammatics discussion isn't pro-town behaviour Mocsta. Then hopping on the easy lynch wagon after warbaby made those terrible posts? [glurio tended not to be so aggressive, and point out poor town play in others, when he was scum. instead he tried to frame others as scum and hop on bandwagons] Let's start with that and don't post endlessly. While i agree with everyone that warbabys posts have been really horrible he basically did everything he shouldn't do (soft-blue claim, getting overly emotional, giving up, citing countless times hes town), i think we should really step back and take a look at the whole picture. [i don't remember glurio scum saying sensible stuff like this] I think he would be much more cautious with his posts if he actually was scum. I'd like everyone to look at mocstas filter. Does he do anything to seriously scumhunt? He asks questions in every direction, has people on his "watch" but this is the same as NMM XXXV, where he was infact the mafia gf. He picks the easiest target and highlights everything everyone already read. Sn0 didn't add anything useful with his arguably limited posting time, only talk about RNG and english grammatics. Useless but i'm sure he'll pick it up. [these last few paragraphs are a bit more like scum glurio, where he just throws around accusations and waits to see what sticks] | ||
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On February 12 2013 07:21 Sn0_Man wrote: @Warbaby: Lynching a 0-poster is functionally a no-lynch (unless they get replaced, which I suppose is what happens in newb games). I'm happy with asking 0-posters to post, but people who demonstrate presence and ability to post and fail to demonstrate willingness to contribute are worth less to town than possible useful replacements. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I've even thought the same thing myself before, I was just distracted when I posted earlier and didn't think first. Lynching the lowest post count player definitely makes more sense than a zero-post player, in absence of any convincing scum cases. | ||
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Sylencia - Currently at work? promises to post more, posts appear reasonable, but not really moving discussion forward so far. Mandalor - Few decent posts, nothing really interesting here, yet. Please do "put a finger" on scummy Mocsta, if you can. I can't without relying on meta wifom. Hope you have more time later to post more. Zarepath - More decent posts, seems legitimately busy but puts effort into reading the thread and making a sensible case. Really not lurking, especially if he continues his current pace for the next 24h. Hardly lurkier than glurio. Macheji - 0 posts, 24 hours in I don't think we can accuse anyone else of lurking at this point? I'm actually still busy with work (overtime yay) so I may not be posting a whole bunch tonight. | ||
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Me vs WaveofShadow is a false dichotomy, Mocsta. What about sylencia? He could easily be a scum trying to blend in. I can't seriously vote WaveofShadow when there are other people who have made very small contributions. I'm not commenting on the case against me any more at this point, except to maintain that I think it's fairly ridiculous. | ||
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The way you're analyzing my response is... bizarre. You need to chill out and think rationally, not come up with the most tenuous of associations and strained explanations for motivations when people do simple things like answer your questions directly. If you want my general opinion on geript, well it's only like 24h into the game. So far his contributions aren't stellar, but neither are anybody else's (including yourself). I'm certainly not going to claim he's scum based on the available evidence this early in the game (like you seem so eager to do, to anybody, which could be a bit scummy). I think voting Sylencia makes more sense right now than anybody else. | ||
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All these accusations of active players being scum around aren't completely bad, but none of them are really making sense to me right now in D1. | ||
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The problem with Sylencia is similar to zarepath's case against WoS. Sylencia's not putting a lot of effort into moving discussion forward. WoS seems to be addressing this, but so far sylencia isn't (sevryn is pretty bad in this regard as well). | ||
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On February 12 2013 11:32 cDgCorazon wrote: You've signed your death note. ##Vote: Warbaby Ever since the pressure has died down on you (almost a day ago), you have slunken away to the shadows and not contributed to the scum hunt. Now you want to lynch Sylencia because he's doing what 5-6 other players are doing? It makes no sense. Right now, we are talking about Geript and you. Don't give us this shit that we should stop talking about it. The only way you can save yourself now is to tell us why we should lynch Geript and not you. 22 hours. GL HF. You think I'm scum because I want to lynch the worst lurkers (sylencia, sevryn)? So you think LAL is a scum tell? Sorry I don't follow. I'll look at geript's filter and get back to you, but I'm still not comfortable lynching active players unless they do something seriously scummy. | ||
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On February 12 2013 11:32 cDgCorazon wrote: You've signed your death note. ##Vote: Warbaby Ever since the pressure has died down on you (almost a day ago), you have slunken away to the shadows and not contributed to the scum hunt. Now you want to lynch Sylencia because he's doing what 5-6 other players are doing? It makes no sense. Right now, we are talking about Geript and you. Don't give us this shit that we should stop talking about it. The only way you can save yourself now is to tell us why we should lynch Geript and not you. 22 hours. GL HF. You think I'm scum because I want to lynch the worst lurkers (sylencia, sevryn)? So you think LAL is a scum tell? Sorry I don't follow. I'll look at geript's filter and get back to you, but I'm still not comfortable lynching active players unless they do something seriously scummy. | ||
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Ebwop: I'm not OK lynching active players D1 if there are lurkers with 2 or 3 posts, which there still are. | ||
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On February 12 2013 11:40 Mocsta wrote: "he has only been here 24hrs, so i dont have an opinion" - yet he wants to hunt Sylencia?!?!? *back to active lurking* a) I literally didn't say "I don't have an opinion", I said "I don't have strong opinions right now". [b]Why are you lying about what I said, Mocsta? And you are [b]lying, the proof is right here, just click the link b) I don't have a strong opinion that someone who is a currently active poster is scum, enough to want to lynch them D1. It's that simple. Someone with 2 or 3 crappy posts is scummier to me than the current active posters. Except maybe you, because you lie. | ||
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I'm only saying you lied, not that you're scum. I think you're probably just impulsive, you simply have confirmation bias for me, so you twisted my words in your own mind, which isn't necessarily scummy (potentially just suboptimal town play). | ||
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Sevryn is back, rejoice! Hopefully he makes some decent posts and helps to narrow down the legitimate lurker pressure to sylencia. I'm really tired after a long day of work. I'll review the thread and post my opinions on whether I think any of the active players really seem scummy to me, but I still maintain that if there are lurkers to lynch, we would be safer lynching a lurker than an active player on D1. | ||
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On February 12 2013 12:52 cDgCorazon wrote: Warbaby, ever since I've made the original case against you, you have done nothing to refute my arguments, and have continued most of the behaviors I called you out for (except for playing the victim from XXXVI). When Mocsta pressures you, you ask him to drop it and stop pressuring you. When the request is granted, you drop out of sight trying to hide behind pressuring others. You sheep onto every single idea that more than one person agrees with. You randomly decide that we should vote Sylencia instead of the 5-6 other people who are exhibiting the same behavior without justifying why we need to vote out Sylencia in particular. You're playing without a purpose. You're not interested in who we lynch, as long as it isn't you. You're trying to keep the attention off of you and hide in the shadows while we sit around and mull who to lynch. You haven't contributed anything ORIGINAL to this town, and it's not looking good for you now. When did I ever ask Mocsta to stop pressuring me? I've suggested he could post less because he's spamming the thread, but I've never once suggested what the content of his posts should be. I can't address your other criticisms because they're bullshit, and I don't know how to logically explain this, because I don't speak bullshit-ese. I explained multiple times, in the pre-game, that I would be more IRL busy this game, and not posting every 20 minutes 18 hours a day like I did last game. My justification for pressuring sylencia is because his contributions are very minimal, which classes him as a lurker. How many times do I have to tell you I don't want to lynch an active player D1 (barring major scumslips, which there have been none of) when there are still lurkers around? Anyway, I'll review the thread and see if I find anything scummy (other than lurkers) that hasn't been brought up yet. Either way I'm going to bed after that. | ||
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Sorry, but I just don't see how I can make a convincing, new case that anybody is scum right now, except the idea that a low-post lurker could be a scum (it's fairly common in newbie games). I'll try again tomorrow morning when I'm not so worn out from work. Hopefully the low-post-count lurkers will have posted some more by then, too. On February 12 2013 13:03 Sylencia wrote: You can't seriously say that considering the posts I made were targetting you. You don't have an objective view when it comes to things regarding you and your attitude towards anyone who accuses you of anything is the worst. I'm not going to argue against the quantity of posts or my lack of discussion so far but your attitude is pissing me off. Er, I don't recall saying you attacked me. I just said your posts so far were fairly minimal (maybe crappy wasn't a nice way to put it). | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:12 WaveofShadow wrote: Wait....what? Did I miss something? Uh...welcome back Sylencia but wtf did that come from? When did he ever say you were targeting him?? Boy oh boy here I thought you posting might remove your aura of scumminess... Yeah, my thoughts exactly  | ||
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Asking him to chill out in general is not asking him to stop attacking me. You're wrong, sorry. On February 12 2013 13:17 cDgCorazon wrote: Anyways... First of all, don't say my arguments are BS. They aren't. The problem is that you've only been active before you were attacked by me and Mocsta. After that, here's what you did: Made a sarcastic comment to Mocsta Agreed to LAL and voted for 9-Bit (when there are other lurkers out too) Zare make a case on WoS: "Hey Zare, that's a good case, FoS!" Repeated your same argument on Gloria Made a list of lurkers (again) Said we should vote out Sylencia for lurking That amounts to a grand total of zero scum hunting and no original contributions to town. No one is expecting a post every 20 minutes, but we are expecting a higher quality of posts than yours right now. You literally could replace Sylencia's name with the names of 5 other people. I've hammered this point to death but you've said nothing about what makes him different from the other lurkers. No, you could replace his name with sevryn (although sevryn is now starting to post now). Not 5 other players. I've pointed out that there were 2 lurkers several times. Again, you are unfortunately factually incorrect. Please, give me your opinion on Geript. Tell me why you think he is town/scum/null.[/QUOTE] I just did, and I'm tired and need to sleep. Right now I think geript's contributions are about as helpful as sn0_man's, and definitely not OMGSCUM LYNCH HIM D1 material. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:20 cDgCorazon wrote: EBWOP: Scratch the "give opinion on Geript" part. Sorry, missed that before I responded. I will take a closer look tomorrow morning and will let you know if I come up with anything interesting. | ||
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Why is pressuring sylvencia dumb? He made very minimal posts, so he's a lurker currently (more so than Mandalor and Glurio). Is lynching lurkers dumb? I don't follow you. | ||
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On February 13 2013 00:36 zarepath wrote: My first instinct is to lynch Sevryn because I irrationally read anyone who avoid using capital letters as scum. I'd rather go after sylencia right now, as an LAL target. I don't understand sevryn's case on glurio at all, but at least he made one. Sylencia has contributed less than sevryn at this point. He's the lurkiest player, that has more than zero posts, right? Also, Zarepath, did you miss the part of the thread when I repeatedly pointed out that everybody's scum cases were pretty weak, due to the minimal evidence on D1? That included your case on WoS. You imply I was all about your case on WoS, but I never voted him, and I lost interest in the case after WoS made a rational response and didn't just freak out (or lurk harder). I think you misread my intentions. | ||
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On February 13 2013 01:28 zarepath wrote: Fair enough. So WoS's defense persuaded you that he wasn't someone worth lynching, then? Yes, although I was not terribly persuaded either way at any point. You put effort into a case, so I'll admit I did get a bit excited about it. I'm going to take a much, much closer look after D1 is over and we have some real voting patterns to look at. At this point, all the players but one are either active or have 0 posts. I think there's a good chance one (or more) of the active players is scum. But I have no good idea who, yet. | ||
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Mandalor and sevryn still have somewhat minimal contributions, but they seem to be trying to move the discussion forward to some degree. ##Vote: Sylencia Because I think he's lurking (harder than anybody else), and the posts he did make aren't really helpful to town. I'm not saying "omg sylencia is 100% scum", just that he's the prime LAL candidate right now, in my eyes. And no, someone with zero posts (9-bit and macheji) on D1 is not an LAL candidate, IMO. | ||
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Mandalor doing towny things like voting a lurker (and pretty clearly not trying to start a bandwagon, he admits he's pressuring a lurker): + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 08:48 Mandalor wrote: My vote on 9-Bit is not a "safe vote". It's a pressure vote. We have more than 24 hours to go - most people change their vote tons of times during such a long time period. Honestly, I'm having trouble making good cases right now. I looked at glurio, but he was already mentioned. Sylencia is kind of in the same boat. I would LOVE to make a case on Mocsta, but while he always feels scummy to me, I just can't put a finger on it (and I was wrong about him in two of his past games where he was an all new category - "annoying town"). That's gonna have to be it for now. I'm off to bed - hopefully you guys give me some stuff to analyse tomorrow. And uh, sylencia's entire filter is basically unhelpful to town. He tunnels me a bit (with factual errors), says he won't post a lot, tries to say people shouldn't vote unless they're really serious about it. None of this is really good for town (although I'm not discouraging people from attacking me, I'm just saying sylencia hasn't contributed anything that other people weren't already pointing out). Like I said, I'm not calling sylencia out as "omg 100% scum lynch him nao" I just want to pressure him with an LAL vote. If he responds bizarrely, I might be able to make a better case against him. | ||
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I definitely will pay more attention to the active posters later, especially their actions during the critical late-day period. But currently I'm still more interested in the lurkers. | ||
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On February 13 2013 03:49 cDgCorazon wrote: @Warbaby Who is playing more similarly to when they were scum: Sylencia or Glurio? It's hard to call. Probably sylencia -- his first 24-48 hours of XXXIV (as scum) seem pretty similar to his behavior so far in this game. I see what you're saying about glurio, I'll keep it in mind. | ||
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On February 13 2013 06:21 glurio wrote: Well warbaby soft-blue claimed, so i don't think we can or should lynch him today. He obviously made some terrible posts at the beginning of the day, but he did so last game too, also he soft-blue claimed last game to and turned out to be the doc. Hes also very active so if he's scum he'll actually slip up sooner or later. I'd prefer lynching one of the lurkier players, sevryn, syl or mandalor right now. Can you quote the post where I soft blue claimed? All I recall is hard claiming town alignment, and refusing to role claim (which is not a soft claim). | ||
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I'm done with work for the day, so I'll catch up with the thread and will be around for the next couple hours | ||
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Honestly it almost seems like you're scum, and trying to trick me into claiming my role instead of just my alignment. Because I assume you do understand the difference between a role and an alignment. | ||
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On February 13 2013 06:06 zarepath wrote: Okay, the vote is in just four hours, yes? I would really like everyone's opinion on warbaby. We certainly got away from him for a while, and he seemed less emotional, but I think we should all look at his filter again (I will be doing it, too), and decide if the second half of Day 1 changes how you see him for the first half of Day 1. I would especially like to hear from 9-Bit, Mocheji, Sevryn, glurio, [b]warbaby[b/], Mandalor, and Sylencia. I'll have my final read and vote before lynch time, hopefully early enough so that the last hours aren't insane. You want my opinion on myself? I think I'm dashing and handsome. But seriously? I've already responded as much as I care to right now about the case against me. I guess this doesn't satisfy corazon (or others), but my job isn't to satisfy corazon (and others), it's to hunt scum. My opinion on others hasn't changed a whole lot. I think it's a bit odd glurio would take off for a movie after dinner, when there are 4 hours to lynch, seems a little odd. Is he delaying to see where the bandwagon goes? This makes him seem more like he did in the last game (as scum). Mandalor's post about sylencia is not exactly breaking news, so I still think he's lurking pretty effectively. No new posts from sylencia or sevryn -- so I'm happy leaving my vote on sylencia for now. | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:34 cDgCorazon wrote: If you are VT, you would've said it to avoid being killed. If you are blue, you would not have tried to look so pro-town that the scum would try to kill you. What? Scum does not know who is VT and who is blue yet. If I claim VT or blue, scum will gain information. As town (which scum already knows), I will not do anything to give scum information unless it helps town. Anyone claiming their role on D1 is not helping town. It's that simple. | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:35 WaveofShadow wrote: BTW, this may be my favourite post to date from WB, except for the soft scum claim on Cora. Reeks of OMGUS. I'm not OMGUS'ing Cora, I'm trying to explain to him why claiming any sort of role on D1 is a terrible idea. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [links to posts] + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17779217 <- explaining my views on a number of people. some of my views were original when I first stated them, but I am mostly restating stuff, because the lurkers are still mostly lurking. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17769064 <- trying to de-antagonize mocsta, explain why i'm not OMGUS'ing the people pressuring me. perhaps we can move the discussion along? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17769409 <- discussing policy lynches, realizing I'd rather vote a real lurker than someone with zero posts (a non-player). http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17770728 <- being reasonable about not voting WoS until he responds to zarepath's case (which I think had enough non-bullshit it in it merit attention) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17771386 <- sticking by my assertion that glurio is less lurky than last game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17772435 <- explaining more who I think could be legitimate LAL lynches, because I'm not willing to lynch an active player D1. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17772797 <- continuing to stand by my case against a specific lurker, giving my thoughts on the other lynch candidates. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17773452 <- explaining why I think scum cases against most of the active players are silly at this point. sticking by my LAL stance on sylencia. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17777671 <- explaining which lurkers I'd rather vote... taking the effort to read and post a link to meta on a scum player from a previous game. and there's more... The point I'm making is that, while I've had to defend myself against silly attacks all game (just like last game), I've stood firm on my opinions about who are the scummiest lurkers, and who I'd be willing to lynch. I've given my thoughts on other people's "cases" against active players, without being inflammatory or derailing discussion. I'm not casting my vote around looking for a bandwagon, I'm evaluating who I think is lurking in a scummy way and voting for them. And my vote is staying where it is unless I or someone else can make a real scum case, or sylencia picks up his contributions. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:02 Sylencia wrote: I'm back again, and I don't understand how alignment claims ever help. Seeing as how it'd either be town claiming town, or scum/3rd party claiming town. That gets us nowhere. WaveofShadow claimed town as well: On February 11 2013 13:04 WaveofShadow wrote: Yay for active lurking! I have to agree with Mocsta here, at the very least lurker removal D1 can be a useful strategy, but I can't say I'm in favor of removing those who are performing the bare minimum (read: have actual 'qualitative additions,' as geript put it) when there will be scum actively trying to disrupt our hunting efforts. If it comes to pass that those who are performing the bare minimum ARE the scum who are detracting from our efforts, then that's another story, but I feel like we should be slightly more certain of this than a regular lurker lynch, and I would also argue that this kind of thing would have to happen after D1. Once again, making my position very clear: if you are inactive or do not contribute to the hunt D1, then you are my target. Obviously the Day is still young but I expect more from my Town as the day progresses. Why aren't you getting on his ass about it? Are you capable of making posts that aren't tunneling me? | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:05 cDgCorazon wrote: OH REALLY? I unvoted 9-bit because I realized I didn't want to lynch a zero-post player. And I didn't think I was going to pressure him any further. I've voted for 2 people in 48 hours. That is hardly casting my vote about. Would you please calm down? I'm responding to you calmly, and you're freaking out and tunneling me hardcore. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:08 cDgCorazon wrote: And you blame me for not reading your filter... Dude, I was responding to sylvencia, not you. Please calm down. | ||
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I reject any active players as candidates today. It just doesn't make sense to lynch someone D1 who is trying to contribute to town. I've already given my two LAL candidates, repeatedly: sylvencia: his last post does not de-lurk him IMO, it added nothing to the discussion that hasn't already been said. I'm not OMGUS'ing him, I just think he's still effectively lurking. sevryn: I don't see a lot of value to his posts, his case on glurio makes no sense to me. he has been a little more consistent about going after glurio, and is trying to make novel contributions, so he's #2 for my LAL candidate. If you want a #3: Mandalor. Not very far behind sevryn. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: Why are you expecting him to change his vote? In my opinion, WB is kind of locked into Sylencia because it's the only person he has really targeted... Like I've said repeatedly, sevryn would be an acceptable secondary target for me. I still think sylencia's posting is not doing anything to move discussion forward. he doesn't need to defend himself, he needs to demonstrate that he's putting work into hunting scum. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:45 Mocsta wrote: I dont think either of them will be present right now due to timezones. Fingers crossed they are here before the lynch but. Sylencia posted like 10 minutes ago. Are you confusing him with sevryn? | ||
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Sylencia is still not contributing, but I think sevryn is really, really close. I'd be more comfortable voting sevryn than Mandalor. | ||
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##vote: sevryn Basically for the same reasons as my earlier vote on sylencia, except now sylencia is posting and sevryn still hasn't. And I think sevryn voting for glurio and then taking off past deadline is just wack. And then glurio getting wagoned, I don't like that. I don't think glurio is lurking as bad as he did as scum last game. I really wish glurio would cast a vote, though. I'm surprised he's holding off for this long. | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:48 Mocsta wrote: With reasoning like that, i could think you're not voting for Glurio because I am. Come on, if you want to be pro-town, stimulate discussion, walk me through why my reasoning is wack I did, a while ago, in this post. Glurio is not lurking like he did in the last game, and I don't think you can claim to vote him as an active scum right now. So I don't see why you're voting glurio. Anyway, I never said your reasoning was wack. I said the Glurio wagon you are on was wack. You're not the only one on the wagon. | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:03 Mocsta wrote: Look, we need a game plan moving forward; this obviously wasnt ideal can i suggest we stop talking about blues (im looking at you sn0)... with NK this cycle; lets not help out the scum pls warbaby you were the only person dead set against glurio (that commented) Can you please give more reason than meta to why you thuoght he was town; you said my reasoning was sound, yet you refused to jump on... I want to know why. I never said I thought he was town, I said I didn't think he was scum. My read wasn't any better than null, in the post I linked earlier. You insinuating I called him town is putting WIFOM into my mouth, which is not what I said. One of the people that lynched glurio is scum. I refuse to believe 3 towns lynched him. We need to focus on: Sevryn Mocsta cdgCorazon And perhaps we can find a scum. It's fine if you guys still want to make cases on me, but I didn't just lynch a townie. Sevryn seems the most questionable. He really needs to post a lot more to show he's not a lurky scum. | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:09 Mocsta wrote: True, i just read the post again; sorry for the misrepresentation. That you stood up for me, made me think you thought he was town. Not sure why you would step in to defend a "null' read; even now with hindsight, thats an odd move to make. Because why would I lynch, or agree to the lynch of, someone I have a null read on, when there are lurkers like sylencia (at the time) and sevryn still in the game? I tried to debunk the wack "glurio is a blendy scum like last game" wagon, and failed. It's not that I thought he was town, it was that I thought he was going to be lynched for incorrect reasons, compared to the other candidates. | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:18 Mocsta wrote: Right, so if I read right; it wasnt that you was sticking up for Glurio, it was that you wanted your wagon to take off (i.e Sylencia/Sevryn) If so, I can accept that. if you were sticking up for Glurio because he was null; thats really an odd thing to do (even with your explanation) I would have been happy with a wagon on sylencia or sevryn, or possibly zarepath and mandalor. I thought they were all potentially lurking harder/playing outside their normal town meta, moreso than glurio. Sorry bud, you're the one on the wagon that just lynched a town, not me. I don't need to explain my D1 votes any more (I explained them when I made them, so just check my filter). You need to explain your vote. You just lynched an active town player because you thought he was playing lurky scum like last game, no? But how can he be lurkier than players with 50% less posts? | ||
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Let's see what sevryn has to say. | ||
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On February 14 2013 01:30 Sn0_Man wrote: I'd be more inclined to call cora scum for all this if he didn't play so spectacularly poorly as town last game that I was forced to blue-claim to prevent his mislynch. I sort of agree, but I also think Cora's play is less aggressive than last game. I'm going to look at all of his past games, and see if there is any pattern to the meta that's relevant here. Geript's case on Cora does strike me as a little bit odd, the way it relies on comments by WoS, Mocsta, and Sn0, and not just Corazon's actions and posts on their own. Anyway I'm voting sevryn on D2 if he continues to lurk, and do stuff like drop a vote for terrible reasons and disappear for extended periods (including deadline). I stand by my assertion that there's a good chance one of the people voting Glurio were scum. The votes were very spread out, but I can't see how a scum would resist the temptation to either lead a bandwagon on Glurio, or drive one home. I'm going to busy again at work today, and not fully with the thread until 5PM EST. I'll do my best to make some more posts before N1 is out (I still have some things to say about sevryn, but I want to hear from him first). | ||
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Thoughts on a few other players: + Show Spoiler [Mocsta] + Mocsta is the remaining glurio wagoner that I didn't comment on above. I think his play is a lot like his scum play in XXXV. I'm just getting done with work, so I haven't taken the time to pick his filter apart yet, and review his meta in all games. But I've noticed he's a lot less aggressive as town sometimes (especially compared to his early D1 play this game). I also don't like the way he tried to box us into "pick 2 lurkers and 2 actives to lynch" as D1 was finishing. This is a ridiculous suggestion IMO -- if there are legit lurkers around we shouldn't even be discussing lynching an active on D1 (barring an egregious scumslip of which there have been none). It seems like he was trying to egg us on into lynching an active player (saving his scumteam from having to kill that active player with a night action?). If I'm alive D2 I'll put a lot more effort into analyzing Mocsta. + Show Spoiler [sylencia] + Still lurking hardcore. 1 post 22 hours into N1? Claims to have done an analysis on me, but I don't see an analysis on me in his filter. Why did he only de-lurk at the end of D1 when "his head was on the chopping block" (in his own words)? Was he reading the thread but not posting before that? I'm leaning scum on sylencia. + Show Spoiler [Mandalor] + Still lurking, but not that bad. I don't see overt scum motivation in his posts and actions, but I wish he would participate a lot more. + Show Spoiler [Sn0_man] + Null read. He's active, considering many angles, questioning multiple players. If he's scum he's blending in extremely well. + Show Spoiler [geript] + Basically the same as sn0_man, except he's a bit less active, and thorough in his analyses. + Show Spoiler [zarepath] + His play seems very analogous to my last game with him, when he was town. His bait and switch fake case was well executed on D1. He's been making posts that are useful to town, IMO. Maybe I have some kind of bias after I did a doctor save on him last game, because I want to lean town on zarepath. But a null read would be more rational. + Show Spoiler [WoS] + Like sn0_man, he seems to be keeping an open mind. I like this post. A scum knows the essence (alignment) of the flip already. If WoS is scum, it's a cute trick to act like he's excited to see the flip. Not saying he's town, but he's definitely not got the scummiest filter in the game right now. + Show Spoiler [ObviousOne] + I don't understand why he's concealing his ideas until D2, unless he's sure he won't be night killed (eg, he's scum). But his other posts make sense to me. Obviously I won't vote myself, but I might be interested in a sylencia lynch as O1 suggests. I'm totally burned out from work (dealing with unusually complex stuff this week), but I'll try to post some more of my thoughts before N1 is out. | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:18 ObviousOne wrote: @Warbaby, I am your fresh start. I want to put aside the chaos of yesterday and your claim and just move on with assessing your scumhunting, so show me what you've got. I see that there is some action regarding taking a closer look at you from Mocsta and Sylencia, but I encourage you to give me some reads and I will take them for what they are worth without considering the D1 shitstorm. I'm still busy with work =/ I gave some reads here. I'll try to follow up like I said I would, when I'm done with work (hopefully soon). I like your post here on sylencia. By his reactions, I imply that he's been paying attention to the thread, but not posting a lot. This is active lurking, which I find scummy. Anyway I've said enough about sylencia for now, when I get around to posting more I'll make sure it's about other players. The double kill is interesting, but I haven't really digested it yet. It might make sense for vig to claim now (if there is one), since their bullet is spent. It could help eliminate speculation around an SK, although it would give scum some information =/ If there is an SK, we should consider being more careful posting null or town reads. With any luck the SK will nail a scum. | ||
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At first I wasn't sure about ObviousOne's vig claim, but there's a decent case for why ObviousOne is probably not vig. Vig should have claimed earlier to clear up SK speculation, especially since the vig is single-bullet. I'm buying this argument. It's possible TestSubject is lying hardcore with his claim and case, but that would be an even more daring gambit than ObviousOne fake claiming vig to save his scum/SK ass. ##Vote: ObviousOne Hopefully I will not be as IRL busy tomorrow (12 hour workday today =/) and can put more effort into the game. I'm heading to bed now. | ||
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On February 14 2013 13:34 ObviousOne wrote: I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further. The rebels shall bow before the power of this fully armed and operational battlestation. Unacceptable. If you are SK your wincon is to kill everyone. The way I see it, unless TestUser is lying, there is nothing to negotiate with you except how many years dungeon you're going to get. Durr I'm actually going to bed now T_T | ||
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1) Both TS and OO are scum, TS is bussing OO in a very elaborate way. OO is not SK, so we still have to deal with 2 night kills after OO flips scum. This seems very unlikely, but would be a huge problem for town. 2) TS is Watcher and OO is scum. OO is trying to save his ass, and anybody giving credence to his SK cooperation offer may be scum trying to help him survive longer. This is also a big problem for town because SK and 2 scum are still alive after OO dies. 3) Assume the game balance is currently 6:3:1 (town:scum:sk). If we lynch OO and he flips SK, this leaves the game balance at 6:3 (town:scum). D3 will be 5:3. If we mislynch D4, we'll be at 3:3 and lose. So if we commit to lynching OO as SK, we can't mislynch. Thoughts on other stuff: + Show Spoiler [Some Mocsta Meta] + Mocsta's filter from Normal Mini IV where he was Town. Note that he posts a fairly comprehensive analysis of several players shortly after replacing into that game. He didn't do that in this game until the end of N1. Mocsta's filter from LIX as town. Note the lack of massive wall of text posts and bullshit spewing on D1. Also note the way he's more open to discussing many players, not just the 2-4 players he's willing to lynch. Mocsta's filter from XXXV as scum. Note the proliferation of big posts D1, lots of aggressive attempts to define the town agenda. Very similar to his D1 play in this game, IMO. So based on purely this meta analysis, I believe Mocsta could be scum. Maybe he realized he was giving himself away too much, so now he's cooled his jets a bit, to blend back in with the less aggressive towns? + Show Spoiler [Zarepath] + Zarepath tried a fake case on D1 to see if he could get any information either by pressuring WoS or analyzing the reaction to his case. My reaction to the case was "that's interesting, let's see what WoS says, before I consider voting him". Zarepath implies I got all excited about his case, which I did not. He continues to tunnel people based on a fake case from D1 -- he needs to move past this. + Show Spoiler [Mandalor] + Also tunneling me over a falsification of my reaction to Zarepath's fake case. Looks scummy, continues to lurk and make shitty posts. After OO is dead, I'm much more interested in lynching mandalor at this point than sevryn. | ||
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On February 15 2013 03:46 Sn0_Man wrote: TS can't be scum. Claiming tracker D1 is suicide because he can't know if there will be a tracker counter-claim. Plus he has to bus a buddy who agrees to play along for this to work. No chance. TS is confirmed town tracker, 100%. Yeah, I'm heavily leaning that way. It would be an insane gambit to fake claim the way he did -- it's not 100% sure to fail but it's quite a risk. If TS is confirmed Tracker, we need him to give input on who he thinks scum could be, not just who he tracked. Good chance he'll die N2. | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:05 Sylencia wrote: I was roleblocked last night. Unfortunate for WoS and geript, but I believe it's more likely to be an SK over Vig here, since I mentioned Vig shooting N1 and was told it was 'too risky' for them to do it by Warbaby. Note that there is only a mafia roleblocker. If sylencia is not lying, there will still be a mafia roleblocker on N2 (unless we lynch the mafia roleblocker today). So there's a good chance if TestSubject is not night killed, he will be role blocked instead. We definitely should not have any more towns claiming blue at this point, in case there is a mafia roleblocker alive N2. And no, because I used the word "blue" in a post does not mean I'm soft claiming blue =_= | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:05 TestSubject893 wrote: Also this post + Show Spoiler + On February 14 2013 12:35 Mocsta wrote: hmmm, Corazon hasnt been on my mind to be honest; I think someone made a case (?Geript IIRC) - which I guess is suspect, knowing that that OO killed WoS no matter alignment. I can look into it; but I still want more information from zarepath first. this SK dilemna has clouded the thread somewhat (deserving though albeit) so things like my questions to zarepath are buried. Taking a break regardless Since I believe you are Watcher, I am willing to collaborate with you on a Mocsta/Corazon case -- please review the Mocsta filters I linked earlier. But since I believe your claim, we must kill ObviousOne first. If Obvious flips scum, I'm less likely to believe you are actually Watcher. I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that you've fake claimed and are bussing Obvious. If there is a real Watcher, your fake claim might force the real Watcher to counterclaim, and then you can kill the real Watcher. Watcher is a powerful role and it might be worth scum trying to trade a goon for a Watcher by fake claiming. | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:12 TestSubject893 wrote: Also we already talked about this. Did you skip part of the thread, warbaby? Yeah, I've been busy with work and I must have glossed over it. I'll review the thread before I post more | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:17 TestSubject893 wrote: I'm not saying he's SK for sure, so I'm not sure why him flipping scum changing anything. If anything, you should be wary of me now and him flipping SK makes you trust me more, not giving me the benefit of the doubt. I am wary of you. That's why I'm trying to figure out if there's a reason you may have fake claimed. The only reason I can come up with is you're bussing OO in a very, very elaborate way. But that's rather insane, because if you fake claim Watcher and bus a scumbuddy in the process, and then the real Watcher claims, scum is now giving away 2 members. And if you fake claimed and attacked a random town, the town wouldn't have freaked out and claimed SK like that, lol. Therefore, the "Keep It Simple, Stupid" paradigm seems to strongly indicate TestSubject is in fact Watcher, and OO is in fact SK. Sorry if I'm repeating stuff, I feel the need to make sure everyone is looking at this from every possible angle, in case we're being epically hoodwinked. | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:24 zarepath wrote: How do you know that it's purposeful? My purpose is to analyze the situation fully. We are in a very interesting situation, and we need to analyze how the game could play out going forward. I've also given some thoughts and put a lot of effort into looking up and linking Mocsta's filters (since he doesn't put them in his profile). I'm not just speculating about setup and possible future scenarios, I'm analyzing everything I can as well as I can. | ||
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On February 15 2013 06:24 warbaby wrote: Therefore, the "Keep It Simple, Stupid" paradigm seems to strongly indicate TestSubject is in fact Watcher, and OO is in fact SK. I've repeatedly stated that I'm happy going with the obvious, simple explanation. But we also need to consider the possibilities, and how they will play out going forward. Anyway I've said more than enough about the OO/TestSubject situation, so I'll drop it for now. | ||
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About Mandalor - he's basically still actively lurking, I don't see him bringing much to the table. His filter reeks of little effort. Sevryn and sylencia - filter is still not very significant, but they've picked things up since D1 in terms of effort. I hope they continue this trend because we're nearly 4 (real time) days into the game and neither have given us a lot to work with. I've already posted about why I could envision a scum Mocsta in this game. I'm planning to put more effort into this case. I basically still have null reads on sn0_man and zarepath. Maybe I made a mistake in my contribution (confusing tracker with watcher) but as you can see here and here I brought up some points that TestSubject thought were worthwhile responding to, before accusing me of trying to crap up the thread. Like I said, I haven't been purely speculating about OO/TestSubject; I've been posting about other people I think could be scum that we need to lynch later on. I believe I've commented on every player still alive in the game in the last 24 hours, most more than once, so I don't know why you guys are accusing me of focussing solely on setup and endgame speculation. | ||
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On February 15 2013 07:41 warbaby wrote: Sevryn and sylencia - filter is still not very significant, but they've picked things up since D1 in terms of effort. I hope they continue this trend because we're nearly 4 (real time) days into the game and neither have given us a lot to work with. Looks like I was wrong  | ||
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On February 15 2013 09:16 Sylencia wrote: How is it possible to say for certain that there's only a mafia roleblocker, when we don't know if it was a JK or a RB? Roleblocker Once per night, you may send in a PM detailing a person you would like to block. That person will be notified that they were blocked, and if the person being blocked has a night action, he or she will not be able to use it. Roleblocks work on both active and passive abilities, but block only one ability. Active abilities will be prioritized over passive abilities. Jailkeeper Every night you may choose one person to jail. You will protect them from 1 KP and prevent them using any role they might have. Neither you nor your target will be informed of successful saves. I assumed you being informed that you were blocked meant there was an RB, since JK does not mention informing the target that they were blocked. I could be wrong about this assumption, though. | ||
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On February 15 2013 09:50 Mocsta wrote: I am relatively experienced with JK; the "save" does indeed inform much like an RB.. in fact, if RB and JK both select the same target; the target will receive only 1 notification. Jailkeeper Every night you may choose one person to jail. You will protect them from 1 KP and prevent them using any role they might have. Neither you nor your target will be informed of successful saves. The setup explicitly states JK target will not be informed of a save. If you're saving a JK save and a RB block are the same, I'd expect that based on this wording JK targets are not informed. Can't hurt to ask though... If a JK targets a town power role, will that player be informed that their role was blocked? Sorry for more setup speculation, but this is probably worth clearing up. | ||
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On February 15 2013 12:49 Mocsta wrote: Righto Not sure how I missed that lol Thanks The thought process relayed makes sense to me, pretty innovative tactic too. As an aside - probably not worth discussing further (just my musing): I still think your "case" contributed to the lack of consolidation. By this; I mean, that it played a part in the outcome; but do not infer it is the sole reason by any means. This is primarily because the fake case  ID* create a state of thread confusion - a genuine WTF moment; and in addition took away emphasis from most scum hunt pressure present in the thread at the time. The "fake case" conclusion did not lead to a clear target, and hence, for a meaningful portion of the cycle; there was essentially a lack of scum hunting. Do you feel like you effectively hunted scum during that period? You've made a lot of noise, but a half of the time you've mentioned players other than me, it turns out that you're using them as an excuse to tunnel me some more (eg). I'm glad if you think I'm scum, but I can't be all 3 scum. How do you feel about corazon? You've mentioned and quoted him a lot, but it only seems to be when you're tunelling me. You say here that you haven't been thinking of Corazon much, but then when I search for "Corazon" if your full filter, I get 42 hits! Something is up here. | ||
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What scumreads did you come out of it with? Me? Anybody else? | ||
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On February 15 2013 13:37 zarepath wrote: I'd like to see you take that logic a step further and actually make a case, WB. I don't have access to any knowledge you don't (unless you're scum). You're welcome to review the thread like I'm doing, and make any case you think makes sense. Or are you too busy making fake cases to see if you can start a wagon? | ||
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Yes your fake case could have a town motive. My point was it could have also had a scum motive -- "hey guys i wanna lynch this active townie on D1!" And unless I'm wrong, the person you made the fake case on turned out to be a townie... | ||
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On February 15 2013 13:45 Mocsta wrote: Guess what warbaby.. your still failing on this point in NMM37 Thanks, Are you ignoring my question of what you think about Corazon? | ||
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I've made some points about Mocsta here, here, and here. TestSubject has commented on Mocsta, and is making an association between him and Corazon. I'll follow up on this if I can find anything else worth mentioning, but others need to put some effort in as well, instead of just bitching about how there's too much setup speculation (when we have a goddamn blue claim and SK claim in the same day) and too little scumhunting (seems hypocritical to me). | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:02 cDgCorazon wrote: WB I'm sick of you playing so emotional this game. This post just reeks of being emotional and sheeping on Testsubject's momentum: Not only was this completely and utterly false, it's you trying to find superficial ways to slam me while I'm already trying to fight off an attack from Testsubject. Your emotionalness got you mislynched last game, how hard are you trying to keep it under control in this one? If you are town you need to stop posting superficial statements and making emotional quips everytime you come under pressure. How was that false? Link me the posts you made since then about players other than me. You can't say something is factually false if you don't have facts to prove so. | ||
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On February 14 2013 09:48 Mocsta wrote: People I would spend time pressuring Day2: + Show Spoiler [Testsubject (2nd new guy)] + Give him 24hrs to read the 40 pages; by then, he better have a scum read, otherwise it might be pertinent to discuss a policy lynch. + Show Spoiler [warbaby] + I re-read his filter; and this guy just flip flops constantly and tries to join whatever bandwagon he can. He is also constantly referencing old-games; either himself as town, or me as scum. I judge people by their actions in-game; he seems to be avoiding this, as when he even admits 'he doesnt have strong opinions" middle of Day1, and what has been shared since then, seems to be the same.He is still one of my strongest scum reads + Show Spoiler [Mandalor] + This guy has not done much all game, other than offer excuse after excuse. I have not seen anything that I interpret as town aligned; so he is null for me. That is the problem; I would expect by Day2, people have offered enough to be towny, or scummy. Why is he in the middle? This guy needs to be put in the interrogation room, like NOW! + Show Spoiler [Geript] + Need I say more? This guy has shown glimmers of trying to figure out the game, and then does the oddest shit from that. - Put a defense on warbaby by attacking me (The case was refuted easily) - Gives a non-chalant response towards the mislynch. - The case of Corazon reads as if there is no conviction. Which is surprising; why make the case if you do not believe in it? Surely this isnt another Glurio trying to claim a "zarepath" experiment. - Another weird thing with Geript is his opening vote on warbaby; as an "experiment" yet when I come after warbaby, he jumps straight in to be warbaby knight in shining armour So these are your scum reads, Mocsta? 50% of them are lurkers or weren't even in the game yet. So you've got a scum read on me, and a dead town. Why are you still ignoring my questions on what you think about Corazon? You did not mention him at all in your "Last Will", even though he was on the wagon with you D1. Our only (probably) confirmed town, TestSubject, is asking you about Corazon. You really need to respond to me, or him. | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:10 cDgCorazon wrote: These are the posts that I've made that include your name since I said I was done attacking you until you decided that I was attacking you still. + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 07:29 cDgCorazon wrote: Also, I'd like to add that you thinking WB is town and that I am scum for tunneling someone you think is town is ridiculously WIFOM based. I did the same thing (except in the opposite direction) and I was called out for it by Sn0. I'm doing the same to you now. It's possible for two townies to be tunneling each other (see Acid and WB in the last NMM). On February 15 2013 07:50 cDgCorazon wrote: Well if there's literally nothing I can do to change your mind, that's called confirmation bias. You've said that my actions D1 and N1 have been scummy. I'm guessing you don't agree with my reasoning to vote Glurio. Let's say I am scum. I've been tunneling WB (I'll admit it) almost all of D1. Why would I switch to Glurio so late and in such an obviously bad place if I were scum? Why would I go and cement the lynch of a townie when I could just sit on WB (assuming he is town/that I am scum) and everyone would be ok with that. I'm saying your arguments are WIFOM is because you are saying WB is town, so I must be scum for going after him. Either that or you think I am scum, so WB is automatically town to you. Either way is just so much WIFOM, and failing to take into account that town does not know who the other towns are. Town wanting to vote out other towns is a possibility in this game, don't forget that. I called for the town to lynch an active voice, and no one responded to my call. As such, I was forced to choose between 2/3 sub-optimal lynches. I never said I was happy with the lynch. The problem I have with your argument (once again) is that you're only focusing on me and my vote when 2 other people contributed to lynch Glurio, and 5-6 votes were wasted. Please answer those questions as well, because I'm starting to get the feeling you are tunneling me and getting confirmation bias, which is bad. On February 15 2013 07:50 cDgCorazon wrote: Well if there's literally nothing I can do to change your mind, that's called confirmation bias. You've said that my actions D1 and N1 have been scummy. I'm guessing you don't agree with my reasoning to vote Glurio. Let's say I am scum. I've been tunneling WB (I'll admit it) almost all of D1. Why would I switch to Glurio so late and in such an obviously bad place if I were scum? Why would I go and cement the lynch of a townie when I could just sit on WB (assuming he is town/that I am scum) and everyone would be ok with that. I'm saying your arguments are WIFOM is because you are saying WB is town, so I must be scum for going after him. Either that or you think I am scum, so WB is automatically town to you. Either way is just so much WIFOM, and failing to take into account that town does not know who the other towns are. Town wanting to vote out other towns is a possibility in this game, don't forget that. I called for the town to lynch an active voice, and no one responded to my call. As such, I was forced to choose between 2/3 sub-optimal lynches. I never said I was happy with the lynch. The problem I have with your argument (once again) is that you're only focusing on me and my vote when 2 other people contributed to lynch Glurio, and 5-6 votes were wasted. Please answer those questions as well, because I'm starting to get the feeling you are tunneling me and getting confirmation bias, which is bad. Please tell me where I attack you at all in these posts. Not posting about other players (because by the time I got back OO had been ousted as SK) does not mean I am attacking you still. I'm not saying you're not attacking me (although you just started again), I'm saying you not doing anythig except talk about me. You need to hunt more than 1 scum. | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:13 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm not giving out scum reads because at this point OO is going to be lynched and it would be useless to make a case against someone else as the case would not lead to a lynch (for example, I made my case on you 5 hours into D1 and after a couple of hours it did not go anywhere else). So again, not posting about other players does not mean I am attacking you still. Stop being so emotional. Just because we all want to lynch OO doesn't mean we will never lynch anybody again! Why are you giving up? I'm making a case on Mocsta. Obviously I'm not going to try to lynch him today, but that's not going to stop me from starting to make a case. | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:16 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm Double negatives... Yes, sorry, i meant to say "i'm not saying you're attacking me" | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:23 cDgCorazon wrote: Warbaby. I want an honest opinion. This is about the third time I've asked you this: Do you read any of my posts that don't have your name in it? Yes, of course. How can you accuse me of being emotional when you ask me a question like this? | ||
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Do you need me to link every post you've made since D1 end, and do a statistical analysis of how many mention something other than me and your D1 vote? It won't look good... | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:28 warbaby wrote: When I look at your filter since the start of N1, the large majority of it is explaining your vote on glurio, and talking about me. I'm sorry, but that's just how it looks to me. Even in posts where you mention other people, you mention me as well. Do you need me to link every post you've made since D1 end, and do a statistical analysis of how many mention something other than me and your D1 vote? It won't look good... EBWOP: this was addressed at Corazon. | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:32 Mocsta wrote: So. because you're my scum read, I can't pressure you. Is that how this goes? LOL At least now you admitting its OMGUS, thats the first step in Mafia Anonymous. You can pressure me all you want. Based on your will, you plan to pressure a dead town, a living (probably) confirmed blue, mandalor, and myself. Good luck catching scum with those tactics. Maybe TestSubject will flip Mafia Tracker if you pressure him enough. | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:38 cDgCorazon wrote: Of course, Sylencia is the one and only scum...right? No. You and mocsta are my top scum reads right now, if you haven't noticed. The last scum could be sylencia, zarepath, mandalor, or sn0_man (ordered by liklihood). Obviously I don't think TestSubject and OO are scum (well, OO could be scum, and we'll find out soon enough). | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:44 cDgCorazon wrote: If you think I'm scum I would love to see an original case that brings some new points to the table..."Corazon voted for a townie and Your association with Mocsta. Basically, since Mocsta refuses to analyze you, still, it makes you both look scummy. Mocsta analyzed other people in his will but skipped you. I believe TestSubject asked Mocsta to comment on you, while analyzing Mocsta's will. I have asked Mocsta to comment on you. Why does he refuse? | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:46 warbaby wrote: Your association with Mocsta. Basically, since Mocsta refuses to analyze you, still, it makes you both look scummy. Mocsta analyzed other people in his will but skipped you. I believe TestSubject asked Mocsta to comment on you, while analyzing Mocsta's will. I have asked Mocsta to comment on you. Why does he refuse? And obviously the root of the association is that you've both been most vocal in tunelling me. And you both were on the glurio wagon. It's not a 100% surefire scum case, but it really doesn't look good IMO. Zarepath and TestSubject seem to agree... | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:57 ObviousOne wrote: Warbaby is the easiest case to make in this game. Well, outside of the Obvious. With me WB and Zare heading towards death theres just gonna be ten pages of Mocsta and Cora agreeing with each other LOL. Jenga Lol. I almost feel bad we have to kill you. Heading to bed now. Obviously I'm not going to respond to Mocsta right now, it would be fruitless since I've riled him up trying to make a case on him and corazon. Mocsta, I'm not even trying to pressure you. Don't take it personally, I just think you're scum (and at this point I've explained why in a lot of detail, so if anybody else wants to know why, check my filter). I don't want to antagonize you. I don't want you to antagonize me. Nothing good will come of that. Like I've said before, you're free to make cases on me, and you can try to pressure me all you want. I'm also free to make cases on you. Good night | ||
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On February 15 2013 15:19 cDgCorazon wrote: The fact that it took him 20 minutes to respond and then decides to ignore me in his last post suggests to me that he looked through our filters and realized that I was right...typical WB... I believe your point was that in the association between you and Mocsta, Mocsta looks scummier. I agree, but I didn't realize I had to state so explicitly. | ||
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On February 15 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote: Its actually funnier that I hit him with a very valid point (double standards on last will reads) and now he runs off to "bed"... as i said before, at least he admitted today he was OMGUS Sorry, my case is not OMGUS, it is based on meta, voting patterns, and associations. I'm also following up with points TestSubject made, which I agree with. It's not a great case, like I already pointed out. You don't need to defend yourself from me, you need to go hunt scum. I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you, Mocsta. | ||
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Mocsta, in response to + Show Spoiler [this] + On February 15 2013 16:19 Mocsta wrote:(I think he also referenced us both hunting him) Unless I'm reading the time wrong, sevryn did not get back from work and post things in the thread, like he indicated he would here. I really hope he still plans to make a re-appearance before D2 is out. According to this post Mandlor should be back in a few hours? He asked for direct questions, but the best I can come up with is: Mandalor, who do you think is scum? He indicates here that he's not sold on me being scum; if he hasn't changed his mind, maybe he can help contribute to a scumhunt that includes players other than myself (again, feel free to hunt me, but let's hunt the other scum too). This post (and others) from Mandalor show a lot more effort than we've seen from sevryn or sylencia. I've pretty much given up on sylencia (not OMGUS, he's just still showing extremely minimal effort). To be honest sylencia almost seems scummier than anybody else in his game. Is he putting any effort into making cases or pressuring or doing anything at all, really? His claim that he was roleblocked might be redeeming, but it might also just be a lie. His filter is so barren. If he's town, he needs to help town more. | ||
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Town has a problem in this game. So far we've made two coordinated efforts: 1) Lynch the SK, 2) Lynch me. I'd hardly call the 3 votes on glurio a coordinated effort (at least not by town). So if we discuss nothing for the rest of D2, as Mocsta essentially suggests here by requesting an instant majority lynch on OO, and then we decide to lynch me D3, who are we (well, not me) going to lynch after that? If I do get lynched and flip town D3, town will have an ever bigger problem, since they've mislynched again. If I flip scum D3, is town going to gain any association-type information? Due to the constant hate train, I've basically been radioactive this whole game, so it's not like you'll see some blatant cooperative effort in my voting patterns and whatnot. Since I'm still being attacked some, I'll offer this defense: if I'm scum, wouldn't I have just shut up and let town lynch the SK? I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch the SK, I'm saying I refuse to give up the rest of D2 like Mocsta suggests. It's time town can spend hunting scum. | ||
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On February 15 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote: On phone will make 3 short points 1. Get used to losing sleep over mafia. Some even dream of mafia haha. Welcome to the club. 2. If u r tired as u indicate. I would contest your scum slip was genuine and is easily explained by a lapse in concentration. I think the counter of scum dont break the rules is weak at best and desparate at worst. 3. U r clutching at straws. Fact no one in general is talking. I find it convenient u choose to ignore my posts asking for activity and discussion Nice try warbaby and enjoy the scum dreams If my dreams are scummy, it's only cause you'll be in them~ On February 15 2013 10:15 Mocsta wrote: corazon are you really going to keep us in suspense for who you're voting? The vote is essentially majority now; are we able to shorten the cycle to say: 30hrs (or now); Pretty Puh-lease ? Why would a town want to throw away part of the day cycle? Day belongs to town, it's when they hunt and lynch scum. "Oh but we're gonna lynch the SK/scum ObviousOne anyway" is a lame excuse. If we throw away the rest of D2 like Mocsta suggested, we're giving up any chance to actually hunt scum. Why would a town ever want less time to hunt scum? | ||
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On February 15 2013 18:45 Mocsta wrote: Its actually a common occurrence to ask for shorter cycles when a lynch is universally agreed. If town was actively conversing than yes. Keep the cycle full. But don't try and bullshit me as if lots of flowing conversation occurred. P.s. thanks for ignoring my succinct reasoning for your scum slip. Do u always cherry pick what you respond to? It wasn't a scum slip, so I don't need to respond to your reasoning. | ||
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On February 15 2013 18:45 Mocsta wrote: Its actually a common occurrence to ask for shorter cycles when a lynch is universally agreed. Can you provide an example? I'd assume you can easily find an example if it's a common occurrence. | ||
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On February 16 2013 00:25 Mocsta wrote: If you recall; I lead Day2 with a vote on warbaby. Then the OO issue happened; and everything else went on hold. To answer your question: the cake is pretty much baked. Your current thoughts on Sylencia/Mandalor as reads? More juvenile word play, while dodging questions. He asked you what the cake was (eg, what your case on me was). You responded by saying "the cake is pretty much baked"? Not only did you completely fail to answer his question, but you clearly know he asked the question, and you deliberately responded without giving any kind of real answer. On February 15 2013 23:36 zarepath wrote: Okay, I totally just skimmed the last four pages and I don't feel like I'm missing anything. This is the kind of thing that made us almost lose the last Newbie Mafia -- three or four active townies cluttering the thread, sparring each other over nothing while multiple inactive players post literally nothing. Somebody said that Mocsta/Cora/WB rushing to defend or attack Mocsta/Cora/WB was only meant to divert attention from Mocsta/Cora/WB... this is getting out of hand. None of you have attention diverted away from yourselves. By participating in this BS, attention is focused on YOU, and as town (and I assume at least one of you involved here is town), that is bad. First of all I lean towards the underlined point. Mocsta, Cora, and I being a bunch of active, noisy towns makes more sense than one or more of us being an active, noisy scum. I made the point yesterday: a scum would probably just shut up by now, and sit back while town lynches the SK. I think this applies to Mocsta, Cora, and myself pretty equally. We are looking at MYLO tomorrow, guys. TOMORROW. And we know almost nothing about the reads or opinions of MULTIPLE players: Sylencia Mandalor Sevryn Why are we so eager to let them do literally nothing today? We can't force Sylencia, Mandalor, and Sevryn to play the game. It sucks, but there's not much we can do to actually force them to play more at this point, unless we want to unvote the SK and start pressure voting them. Out of the 3 lurkers you listed IMO sylencia has put the least effort into the game. It's really hard to say because all 3 have put in so little effort, but I'd be happier lynching one of these 3 over Mocsta or Corazon on D3. | ||
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On February 16 2013 08:12 TestSubject893 wrote: Despite my how much Corazon's play is annoying me right now, zare is right. We need to stop giving the lurkers so much slack let's focus some effort there and stop beating up on the people who actually post for a little while. Agreed. I'm done making accusations against active players for the time being. Shockingly, we need to hear more from mandalor, sylencia, and (less so) sevryn. It's actually pretty great that sevryn made some posts on page 65, and I think they were higher quality than those of sylencia on page 59. But I think all 3 are still lurking to an unacceptable degree. Reading all of their filters the thing that most stands out to me is sylencia's claim to have been roleblocked. Why would a lurking scum suddenly pop up to fake claim a roleblock, especially given the probability someone would counter his claim, and then make him look really scummy? I'm not ready to just give sylencia town cred for his claim, but I'd be interested to know what others think of his claim (besides speculation on RB vs JK). | ||
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No, it was a hypothetical explaining why I think his claim could be real. | ||
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On February 16 2013 09:03 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm sorry, I need to explain that more. Why are you assuming Syl is lurking scum? I'm not, I was using it as part of a hypothetical scenario to explore whether or why he might fake claim. | ||
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Sylencia - So very little effort in his filter. roleblock claim might just be a lazy uncaring scum tactic to gain town cred. Doesn't follow up at all why he should get town cred, though, which I guess looks good. Sevryn - Seems to be that he puts a little more effort into his posts. Posts like this show that sevryn may actually be interested in moving the discussion forward, instead of speculating on stuff that hasn't happened yet. Mandalor - His filter seems to have the most effort behind it. When he does make posts, they seem to be on point and at least somewhat helpful to the greater discussion. There's still a lot of time left before we need to lynch anybody on D3. It's hard to lead a discussion on a void, but hopefully we get some more posts from these three to work with over the 72+ hour period before D3 end. | ||
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Geript has a point. While geript's early vote on me was odd, but why did Mocsta immediately jump on board? His other points about Mocsta are basically part of what I was talking about last night. Mocsta was being really pushy and manipulative D1, which I extend to a meta case based on his scum play in XXXV. Anyway, I'm not going to go on another Mocsta witch hunt, it would be tunneling. I just want to bring highlight this now that we have info from the OO flip. | ||
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I currently think Sylencia is the scummiest of the lurkers, due to the extreme lack of effort in his filter. I'd like Sylencia to explain why he's less scummy than sevryn and mandalor, if he can. | ||
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On February 16 2013 12:09 cDgCorazon wrote: Don't you think it would be more prudent to ask all of them why the other two are scummier? Or do you feel like we need to go lurker-by-lurker? I'd be overjoyed other two responded as such (or made just make post in the first place). But yeah I'm highlighting sylencia for now. Maybe that's wrong, since sevryn did help mislynch glurio. Sevryn states here that he voted glurio because glurio made a crappy case, and because he thought I was getting too much attention? Those are some pretty bad reasons to vote someone when there are lurkers about. | ||
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Do you think any of the active players have been attacking you harder than sylencia and Mandlor, because they know you're the one remaining town lurker? Does anyone think we can extend this hypothetical to scenarios where sevryn and sylencia are scum? Or sevryn and mandalor? My point is that if two lurkers are scum, then one active player is scum, and perhaps we can spot a difference between the way active players have been treating the different lurkers. | ||
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Anyway, I'll do my best to review the thread and post reads before N2 is out. | ||
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Here sevryn says he thinks cora and I are the scummiest. This doesn't make sense IMO, because it means that means cora would have been bussing me hardcore from day 1. Sevryn says glurio was a lurker. IMO Glurio was not lurking D1 before he was lynched, not nearly as much as mandalor, sevryn, and sylencia. Zero effort post. Zero effort post. Nonsense post. The criteria for replacement is pretty straightforward. If you post but fail to vote, you may just be warned. But if you fail to post and vote you will be replaced. Says he's going to make a good post. The biggest post he's made so far is about another lurker (mandalor). Jeez. Zero effort post Claims he made a great case on glurio. Here is the case (oh and this effort-filled post). yay for making great posts Conclude whatever you want. I'll do sylencia and mandalor next. | ||
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Seems to put in a bit of effort here. Explains why he's lurking, makes a good point about nullifying pressure votes by announcing they are pressure votes. Goes on for a few posts about me saying I'm town. Not sure why but at least he posted posts. Says he's tunneled me and then tunnels me more. ok.jpg Makes a vote on me after clearly putting some effort into analyzing my play. Sevryn did not do this when he voted for glurio IMO. Speculation may not be the greatest contribution but again, posting posts with lots of words is pretty cool! Claims to be roleblocked. I'm leaning towards "not fake" on this claim. Puts a little effort into this post. Maybe didn't put so much effort into this one. IMO sylencia is less scummy than sevryn. While sevryn's filter is now longer, it's full of a bunch of nonsense and very low effort posts. That said, sylencia is still really failing to contribute to hunting scum. I'm getting tired, I'm gonna take a break and then do Mandalor. Unless these posts are just spamming up the thread, in which case let me know and I'll stop. | ||
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On February 17 2013 08:30 Mocsta wrote: *IF you were town* I am not sure why you have the confidence to make these types of posts; before the final hour deadline to be honest. I am perfectly happy working with hypotheticals that involve my own alignment. I don't think this is scummy in the least. I did the same thing as town in 36. | ||
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I'm not playing the victim, I'm pointing to the fact that I'm always happy to work with hypothetical scenarios that involve my own alignment, and consistently so. | ||
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Shows that he's put some effort into reading my filter from another game [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17769301Puts a little effort into identify his possible lurker candidates[/url], and then makes what seems like an informed, reasonable pressure vote. [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17772108]Puts some effort[/url] into explaining his vote. Explains that he'll be away from the thread. [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17776100]Comments on interactions between players[/url]. I think this shows a bit of effort. [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17776186]Shows that he's read the thread some, makes a post with content[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17779732]Makes another vote with a decent explanation why[/url]. Comments on several players at once in a rational way (which shows some effort?) [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17794913]2 Low effort posts[/url] [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17794931]in a row[/url]. [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17797121]But then he invites people to ask him questions[/url], i see this as sticking his neck out some, it shows a willingness to put in effort in the future. I think mandalor is the least scummy of the lurkers. I feel many of his posts fall into that middle ground between putting in no effort (and not admitting or explaining why he's not putting in effort) vs actually making a real effort. Getting into WIFOM area, but could this be indicative of a scum trying to blend in? I agree with corazon, right now I have little interest in lynching one of the active players on d3, unless I can find something in the thread that's way more compelling than I have so far. | ||
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Here's a fixed version of that post I fucked up above: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2013 09:36 warbaby wrote: Mandalor. I'm still tired, and his filter is short, so this will be short. Note that with all 3 of these lurker analysis posts, I'm trying to highlight posts that actually show effort (or a notable lack thereof). Shows that he's put some effort into reading my filter from another game Puts a little effort into identify his possible lurker candidates, and then makes what seems like an informed, reasonable pressure vote. Puts some effort into explaining his vote. Explains that he'll be away from the thread. Comments on interactions between players. I think this shows a bit of effort. Shows that he's read the thread some, makes a post with content Makes another vote with a decent explanation why. Comments on several players at once in a rational way (which shows some effort?) 2 Low effort posts in a row. But then he invites people to ask him questions, i see this as sticking his neck out some, it shows a willingness to put in effort in the future. I think mandalor is the least scummy of the lurkers. I feel many of his posts fall into that middle ground between putting in no effort (and not admitting or explaining why he's not putting in effort) vs actually making a real effort. Getting into WIFOM area, but could this be indicative of a scum trying to blend in? I agree with corazon, right now I have little interest in lynching one of the active players on d3, unless I can find something in the thread that's way more compelling than I have so far. | ||
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I'm glad TS made some effort to hunt scum among the active players, but I've yet to see anything that makes me sure I want to lynch Mocsta or Corazon. | ||
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##Vote: Sevryn What corazon said. Please try to make posts, especially ones with more than one sentence, that explain who we should lynch instead of you. Same goes for sylencia and mandalor. BTW, tomorrow I have family obligations, so I may not be around until the evening. | ||
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On February 17 2013 10:27 Sylencia wrote: Never mind - I was roleblocked again. Not to be a douche, but could you explain how you didn't know you were role blocked until 26 minutes after the deadline? I assume you get notified of being roleblocked via PM, and the PM indicator is pretty obvious. Clearly you refreshed the thread if you knew nobody else claimed to be roleblocked, so you should have noticed the PM indicator... | ||
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Scum doesn't have a role cop in this game, so why do you think they assume you're a valuable blue and keep blocking you? | ||
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On February 17 2013 15:08 Sevryn wrote: aparently you have to vote to pressure people so why didnt you vote sylencia? this is the scummies reasons ive scene to think I'm the scummiest of the lurkers if we lynch syl today(which I think we should) when they flip scum your going to be next for soft defending them like this when you have no reason too other than being scum buddies. Sevryn. I am not voting to pressure you. I am voting to lynch you, because you're useless to town, which either means you're scum or you're useless to town. On February 17 2013 18:51 Mocsta wrote: Is this a blatant scum slip or something? You accuse me all game of associating with you (when its clear I haven't been).. and now.. you're suddenly chummy with a guy you have been 'chasing' all game? WTF... I found this odd as well, although Corazon is correct that we share impatience with the continued behavior of certain lurkers. Possibilities (warning! hypothetical scenarios involving my own alignment ahead!): 1) Cora and I are scum and this was a scumslip because we're coordinating our votes on sevryn. This implies cora has been bussing me aggressively on and off this game, but then didn't follow through with it. 2) Cora is town, he's currently working with the assumption that i'm also town. Since we're coordinating our votes and actually agreeing with each other now, he's simply decided we should cooperate. Option 1 would be really odd scum play, and a terribly stupid scumslip. 2 would be fairly normal for later-game town play, when towns have to work together to get shit done without being interfered with by the scum. 2 follows KISS, so in some ways I guess I'm taking this as a (very tenuous) town read on Cora. Also, my family obligations were cancelled due to a snow storm so I should be around today. | ||
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I'm not trying to put words into Cora's mouth, just looking at his potential motivations. | ||
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It's a bunch of WIFOM and assumptions on top of assumptions, so I went back and took a really close look at Corazon's play D1, because it still confuses me. His vote for glurio has terrible justifications behind it IMO; but I think his vote, unvote, and then vote again on me looks like a confused, paranoid town trying to pressure someone he thinks could be scum. He says in that post I linked "Lynching Glurio would go a long way in either proving or disproving my case towards WB. His town claim is even stupider than WB's as well." What did you mean by that Corazon, and did you actually learn anything from glurio's flip? Is this why you're apparently buddying up to me now, as Mocsta pointed out? | ||
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On February 18 2013 04:47 cDgCorazon wrote: I think we will learn more about each other from lynching one of the three candidates we have on the table. That could very well be. Where is zarepath? He says he'll post reads but then he says he didn't have time without really explaining why, or when he would have time. While his filter is not so tragically ridiculous as the 3 real lurkers, it's pretty far into D3 and we've yet to get a anything from zarepath. Zarepath, if you're legitimately busy, can you at least tell us when we can expect you to be around, please? This could help assuage my growing concerns that you may be "actively lurking" to some degree. Also, why hasn't Madalor made any posts? At least sevryn and sylencia are responding to our displeasure with their lurking. Where is Mandalor? | ||
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Who do you intend to vote for? Since you are all lurkers, I think it would be hypocritical of you to vote for another lurker. Further, it seems unlikely all 3 of you are scum, meaning an "active" player is scum. Why don't you make a case against one of the "active" players: Mocsta, Corazon, Zarepath, or myself. If you put effort into making such a case, it would help a great deal to prove that you're at least trying to help town. | ||
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Thanks for explaining Corazon, I must have missed that. I want to highlight this post by mocsta: + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2013 13:35 Mocsta wrote: I said before, a case shows more about the maker, than the recipient. Is the above your case for warbaby? Is that the best you can muster? Why is this a contribution of merit compared to posts from Mandalor or Sevryn? Why should we believe you were even RB'd twice? You pointed out you said you were not blue, so i cant see why scum would RB you in the first place... and then why the heck would a JK target you over TestSubject. - All you have returned to us is WIFOM. This smells *really* fishy to me. I want some answers to the above. Let me remind you I agree with Mocsta. The RB claim seems really fishy. I went and reviewed filters again, and at this point sevryn is actually making some effort, while sylencia is not. Sevryn's case on sylencia makes some sense, while sylencia's case on me is terrible. I still feel that the posts Mandalor did make seemed to have a pro-town motivation behind them. So after some thought and the play of these two players so far on D3, I'm going to ##Vote: Sylencia + Show Spoiler + | ||
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On February 17 2013 09:58 Sn0_Man wrote: Erm, no time to write a big last will, but I'd like to remind you guys that a no-lynch COULD be quite reasonable if we can't consolidate on a real lynch target. He's not the first one to suggest no-lynch. Although sn0 seems to understand it's only a last resort... Also, Sylencia has a valid point that we need to hear from Zarepath, Sn0_man, and Mandalor. But that's a terrible reason to vote no-lynch with >24 hours left =_= | ||
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On February 18 2013 08:29 Mocsta wrote: Funny how its u guys responding... Not sylencia Just goes to show. More contributions from him that go no where. For someone that is as keen to speculate on setup as him. He shoulda known its a last resort.. Oh yeah, it's hilarious how this game currently has like 3 legit active players in it.  On February 18 2013 08:29 Mocsta wrote: I think he is starting to cave from the pressure + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SI8W0H3qs_I/AAAAAAAACVI/nVXipX0nRow/s320/CaseShillerYoYMay2008.jpg) sylencia alignment probability index | ||
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Sylencia seems to have no idea how or when he should no-lynch appropriately, but I wonder where he got the idea from in the first place. + Show Spoiler [speculation] + Unless I'm wrong, we're currently at MYLO. 5 dead players. 5-3 right now, 4-3 after a no-lynch leaves us at LYLO. I'm not interested in carrying the game into a LYLO situation if 5 of the players are making zero posts 30 odd hours into D2, and 3 of them have been lurking the whole game. Unless we seriously think there are 2 scum, but I don't think this is likely. + Show Spoiler [fluff] + how I feel about D3 so far... | ||
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1) Sylencia, there is no off-limits for you. If you want to make a triple-whammy of cases against Mocsta, Corazon, and myself... go right ahead. If you put some serious effort into it (analyzing posts and motives) then it'd go a long way towards helping me think you're not mafia scum 2) Sn0_man, Zarepath, and Mandalor are getting a free ride so far D3. Mocsta asked when this would start to get stinky -- I'd say right about now is when I crinkle up my nose and start considering lynching a real lurker (since sylencia and sevryn apparently remembered how to make post). 2a) Sevryn and sylencia have put a lot more effort into the game at this point compared to mandabore. In fact Manda will be modkilled or replaced if he fails to post at all on D3 (and especially doesn't cast a vote). 2b) Really makes me think scum is sn0, zare, and mandalore; and the three of them are just sitting back and letting town mislynch itself. 3) Corazon, what is the point of you voting sylencia at this point? He's already set to be lynched. Obviously you can vote for whoever you want, but I don't understand why you'd want to pile up on sylencia at this point. 4) How would you guys feel about lynching mandalore instead, since he's currently lurking harder than the other two? In sylencia's credit, he won't go down without a fight If I were a scum in his shoes I'd just give up, lol. 5) The status quo in this thread is entirely unacceptable =/ | ||
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In light of this perhaps we should vote no-lynch. Then the scumteam will be modkilled and we win. lolololol | ||
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If you have a problem with sevryn why don't you vote him? Or at least analyze and compare his play to sylencia's for the entire game, not just that small part of the game. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://www.grandpatucker.com/images/st-whale.gif) wecome back sn0~ | ||
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So why should we lynch sevryn instead of sylencia? | ||
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I think you missed my point. I'm not saying sevryn is town, but he responded better to our requests for his scumreads (by actually listing a few) than sylencia. I just don't see what sylencia has been doing, especially recently, to be helping town lynch scum. | ||
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On February 19 2013 09:14 Mandalor wrote: ##Vote: No-lynch I'll be explaining myself tomorrow. I am now the IT security branch at my company when we were four guys last month. Also my girlfriend of 4 years kinda broke up with me. I have tons of stuff to do and this game, sadly, has to be at the bottom of my agenda. If you knew you were not able to play, you should have requested a replacement. Mandalore posted once in 4 days. Can you please replace or modkill him? For reference, here are the timestamps for his last two posts: February 15 2013 07:57 February 19 2013 09:14 According to the rules, players must post once per day and night cycle, and I believe Mandalor failed to post during N2. | ||
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And I agree, this is a stupid game. If mandalor got modkilled for inactivity (and I don't see how posting twice in 97 hours can be construed as activity) and flips town then it would be a fittingly stupid end. I don't want to just give up, but it's really frustrating | ||
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For 96 hours, only 3 out of (original) 13 players actually played the game properly, and 2 halfway. That is bullshit and the game is pretty much ruined already. Zarepath, Sn0_man, how would you like it if I stopped posting for 96 hours? Apparently I can without breaking the rules. The weekend is when you have fun. Mafia is a game. You have fun playing games. If you do not have fun playing mafia, then you're doing it wrong. If you do not have fun on a 3 day weekend, you are doing it wrong. If whatever you do with your family for an entire 3-day weekend is more fun than mafia, the you are doing it wrong. You are either doing it wrong by being a dull person who does not understand how to have fun, or you are doing it wrong by signing up for mafia when it's either not a game you enjoy playing, or you have much more interesting things to do with your time. | ||
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I nominate Acrofales and Dandel Ion for Best Newbie Mafia Hosting Archon of 2013. That last flavor video was great lol Also big thanks to the coaches. | ||
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I was certain one of the active players was scum, but I was leaning more towards sn0_man and zarepath since they boogied out for all of D3 like that. I wanted to be suspicious of Mocsta, but I don't know how I would have convinced Corazon to go along. And nobody else in town was interested in lynching an active player D2 or D3 (or doing much of anything at all). I feel this was more a failure of town than a victory due to the effort of scum. Not to say that Mocsta didn't play really well. | ||
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I think a big town mistake in this game (that I made as well) was the lack of effort to hunt scum among active players on D2 and D3. Lynching lurkers is cool but that doesn't mean we should sit around whining for 24 hours about how lurky the lurkers are. | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:27 Mocsta wrote: Can understand the pain. Hurts when u think one of your own has been actively hindering your thought processes all game. :; I'm not angry over your play at all, just how terrible the town was this game. You played well, but it was like watching a guy in a brand new VW Jetta race against 8 Fiat Maluchs, 5 of which have quadriplegic drivers and no engine. I would have loved to try to vote Mocsta D3 (since I had been pursuing him the whole game) but then Mocsta could have lead Cora into a mislynch on me. I actually put effort into hunting Mocsta (etc), but I got literally zero interest from any player except TestSubject, who was then night killed. e: although it was a terrible mistake on my part to trust mocsta at all on d3 (specifically his reasoning around sylencia). | ||
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I admit I got frustrated after it looked like Mocsta might push a D1 mislynch on me, but if he hadn't been so successful with that I don't see what else I did to make you feel that way. | ||
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IMO Mocsta didn't win this game, nearly as much as town lost it. For most of D2 onwards the game was 2.5 towns (Corazon, soon-to-be-dead TS, and myself) vs Mocsta, Mocsta's active lurker puppet. Town had already lost at the beginning of D2 when we all agreed to stop hunting scum, and especially N2 and D3 when most of town just AFK'd and we were literally 2:2 with the scum. If I ever host a mini game, I certainly will take a more proactive stance towards replacing or modkilling people who fail to play the game for extended periods, and even more so as the game progresses. I feel these mid-game mass lurk scenarios can really imbalance the game towards mafia (eg when a majority of the living townies fail to play for full day and night cycles vs a scum who checks in every 10 hours to post what his buddy tells him to). It's nice that Mocsta was able to control the 2 active towns using his 2 scum accounts (eg, posts 237 and 238 in the scum QT) for the large majority of D3, but IMO this is hardly an accomplishment, or even good scum play in a game with a functional town -- as evidenced by the fact that he lost the last time he tried these tactics. Mocsta 02-18-2013 03:19 PM ET (US) /m272 kk. i be asleep by then.. Good luck /m271 yeah.. WB is gonna be SO SO SO pissed when he reads this lol so is Sn0 he actually figured everything out LOL (that I was writing ya cases etec haha) I'm not pissed at Mocsta at all. I do think his attitude is rather loutish and unsporting at times, but nobody's perfect. I am mad at the town in this game, myself included, however it's just a game and I'll get over it. I just wish I had the guts this game to go after my #1 scum read -- which was Mocsta, as you can see in my filter before D3, when I basically gave up because I realized the rest of town was making zero effort. | ||
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On February 21 2013 08:33 Mocsta wrote: Town losing so badly (I.e. flawless victory to scum) had nothing to do with bad town however, and that is the point u r missing. Oh, I see the point you're making and I disagree. You had such an easy time of it (town basically gave up) that I don't see how you can imply you actually played all that well. I give you much more credit for your loss in '35, when you actually played well against serious opponents. I wanted to try to lynch you so bad D3, but who would have gone with me? You and sevryn? Sylencia and Corazon thought I was scum. Everyone else was inactive until the last minute. You literally had a free ride. I agree about your point that it's like a cheese or rush build, to the extent that neither party really showed any skill worth commenting on -- except in the rare cases of a master cheeser. And I'm explicitly saying you're not at this level yet, although this isn't even a bad thing because cheesy play sucks I definitely look forward to playing with you again at some point, but next time I hope I get to night kill you on N3 for the easy win  | ||
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But that's the point, Mocsta went for a cheesy scum style that relied on most of town failing to do anything for extended periods of time. It didn't work the first time he did it, but it worked this time, probably because this time half of the town decided not to play for nearly half of the game. It's a valid strategy, and he shows some skill executing it against such incredibly meek opposition. But to extend the metaphor, I'm still in the position of having been cannon rushed, and when I went to pull my probes and defend (eg, attack Mocsta) the probes just sat around doing nothing or attacking my nexus instead. But hey, at least I tried. | ||
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On February 21 2013 11:00 Mocsta wrote: This is the last I will say, because, I can not help you see, what you can not see (yet; perhaps due to pride or experience, not sure). The irony of the well-executed con is that only the instigator can see the beauty that unfolds. I can forgive you for not getting it, because the strings were pulled very smoothly. Yes - I agree - many things fell in my favour (i.e. lurking); but to suggest it was a free ride is very naive. The lurking simply allowed me to become more forceful in achieving flawless victory; I had the intention to bus Sev/Man by leading their vote if required. If you want to pretend you had the goods to get me lynched; then you need to re-evaluate your D3 filter where I was constantly referenced among the "active town" and thus, was considered as "town" - this is undeniable. To suggest that was achieved by a free ride due to lurkers is just silly: because Sn0_Man was still considered "confirmed town" even after he commenced lurking. =================== If you want some *hints* of the con; many ideas taking off in the thread *I believe* stemmed from ideas I introduced. If you want an early example; corazon case on warbaby all originated from a post I made prior highlighting your deficiencies. corazon simply fleshed it out for me. (The points he raised were almost all mine to a tee) If you want a late example; you guys were all over Sevryn; many calling him scum directly, and Sylencia 50/50. It is not chance that you suddenly went 180', stood up for Sevyrn, and aided town to unanimously voted Sylencia. (And by unanimous I do not suggest sheeping: zarepath/Sn0 suggested they read the content leading up to the Sylencia vote, and thus made a conscious decision to lynch Sylencia, not a sheep vote... they understood it would lead to MYLO if wrong) As I said before, Sylencia defense wasn't the best; but it was still quite townie in nature/mindset. There is are several reasons his lynch fell into place so smoothly; lurking is one of them; but not the sole or most critical one. His lynch was certainly not a free ride. ============= As I said before, I am not asking for praise. I am actually trying to help, because you seem keen to improve. (and it is also helping me with my town game) In my opinion, an important takeaway from this game is: How did I establish sufficient innocence to then push my agenda. Was I considered town for reasons that are actually "NULL"; or did I actually replicate genuine town tells? In my opinion, Mandalor should NEVER have been considered town; all his posts were "NULL" at best, and with the lurking, should have been insta-lynched based on contribution quality and quantity. Another example; Sevryn abused the lurker situation by "standing up in the crowds" and voicing his opinion on Glurio.. twice. I constantly suggested in the thread, this was a townie tell, and I believe nobody questioned it. However.. is it really a townie tell? (Obviously not..) It is simply just something you do not expect from a scum lurker. The crux: we need to constantly update/adapt our heuristics with placing 'value' on tells to decide town or scum. ==================== This is why I said in earlier posts, next town game I play, my main scum hunt emphasis is going to be on breaking down others case logic. I have a much better understanding now of worse-case logic generated by scum; and worse-case logic generated by tunneled townie. =================== Sorry for the wall of text. This is really the last I will say Peace OutI guess you don't believe that I gave up at the start of D3. I literally had no interest in putting effort into playing the game at that point, and you can see this in the deterioration of the quality of my posts. You think you were tricking people, but you were simply abusing your number and volume advantage to push the game in the direction you wanted. You even said it yourself -- the fact that nobody was doing anything D3 means scum was happy with the turn of events. But the turn of events themselves were directed by the scum. You literally had equal day votes to the town. You had already won on D3. You succeeded, but not because of your own efforts, only a lack of effort by others. I don't mean to cheapen your effort, because you did make a lot, but I honestly don't think you'll ever win a game as scum against a decent town if you don't change your tactics (just like a good cheeser will get demolished by calm, coordinated opposition). On February 21 2013 01:41 Promethelax wrote: +10 points for the correct (post-game) attitude. Zarepath was not the only lazy one in this game. I tried making effort at the end of D2, and on N2, and just gave up, because nobody did fucking anything at all. So I'm also guilty of just being lazy and let the game slide. Sorry Mocsta, you are mostly right, but there are a few points I think your ego won't let you understand. If you're ever scum and I have a capable town to work with, you will lose with these tactics. | ||
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I'm not saying you're bad, or that your tactics are invalid, but they lack finesse, and assume you can continue to control the town agenda for the whole game. I think you even improved on this during 37, and your comments in the scum QT show that you have much more advanced ideas. I'm not even trying to argue with you, I'm trying to say that you didn't even get a chance to show serious skill in this game because town rolled over. I'm only upset with town over this, not you, Mocsta. | ||
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On February 21 2013 07:43 Acrofales wrote: You cannot just modkill people who don't play the way you want them to play, lol. Finding replacements is not easy, and we were lucky we could even find 2 this game. That leaves modkilling, which, in a mini, is a very draconic measure. That leaves changing the rules, which can be thought of. However, in the end, lurkers will lurk and it is up to town to pressure them into contributing. First of all, you are ignoring the option to warn a player, which was effective in remedying Acid~'s non-playing in '36. Second, we tried consistently pressuring them and it only worked in very a limited fashion. How were I and Cora to know that fellow towns Zare and Sn0 planned to AFK for most of D3? You're right that replacement is the most appropriate choice. My take: when someone fails to post in 48 hours you PM them and ask for an explanation. If you get no reply in 12 hours, for ask for a replacement in the replacement thread, and announce that the player is being replaced. If you can't get a replacement soon enough, you might have to modkill the player. At the same time, it's just a newbie game, so maybe I'm expecting way too much. | ||
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On February 21 2013 11:52 Mocsta wrote: If you think nobody is doing anything to stop me; its not because they think I am scum and waiting for me to slip. Its because I have established sufficient innocence to fall down the threat priority list. corazon had no problem constant issues in your play D1, because your innocence was NOT established. My "free ride" had nothing to do with being unintentionally ignored. I was ignored, because I was considered innocent enough. You did not establish your innocence, you established your dominance over the only other active town (Corazon). There's a big difference between appearing innocent (which you did not, at one point 66% of the active towns were after you as scum) and dominating the game because you have 1 actual opponent (after TS died). e: well, more like zero opponents, since I had given up on trying to hunt you after TS died, which I already admitted was the biggest mistake I think I made in this game. I didn't have a town read on you, I just didn't think there was any point in pursuing you when Cora and your lurker buddy would just burn me down for trying to do so (again, my fault for just giving up). | ||
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e: although I will take your suggestion and revisit the post-game in a few days, maybe I will understand your point then. | ||
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Oh wait -- I did! 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9... On February 15 2013 03:20 warbaby wrote: So based on purely this meta analysis, I believe Mocsta could be scum. Maybe he realized he was giving himself away too much, so now he's cooled his jets a bit, to blend back in with the less aggressive towns? I'm really sorry that I never bothered to make a real case on Mocsta, I gave up and decided making cases on active players was pointless because the game was obviously being controlled heavily by scum based on early D3 posting, so even if I tried to make a case on an active scum, it would be shot down (because there was only 1 other active town player at that point, and he had been tunneling me most of the game). | ||
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On February 21 2013 12:34 Mocsta wrote:I was not on the table, and that is the objective. And the point you seem to be missing, even though you spelt it out at the start. You were not on the table because no active player was on the table, because for the first half of d3 there were 3 active players and a half dozen lurkers. You're giving yourself too much credit for the lurking behavior of town. You do deserve credit for taking advantage of the situation, but you did not create the situation yourself. | ||
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I can't say for 100% that I would have made a case on Mocsta, but he was who I was leaning towards as the scum among the active players. | ||
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On February 21 2013 13:00 Acrofales wrote: I did warn players. Both 9-bit and Macheji got a warning before the end of D1, which they ignored. I similarly warned Mandalor at the end of D3. That I choose not to do so in the thread, but in PM is because it is not good hosting practice to use the thread for personal announcements. The scum team was similarly warned with a message from Dandel about the pending modkill on Mandalor. Everybody else showed they were reading the thread. Were townies in D3 putting in enough effort to win the game? No. But that's not my job to police. Thanks for explaining. I wasn't questioning your hosting in this game earlier, just explaining how I would have tried to handle the situation (and it turns out you basically did this). On February 21 2013 13:00 Acrofales wrote: Honestly, I'm getting a bit tired of your self-entitlement. You are acting as if you had absolutely no part in the town loss and it is the host's fault for not spurring on townies to make more effort, and all townies except yourself for not playing better. It is really time you realized that your play this game was not great, and generally speaking, every member of town who is alive at endgame has blame in a loss. There is a reason you weren't killed D1: it was easy for scum to draw you along in pointless discussions and a potential mislynch. If you want to improve your play, which is what newbie games are for, THAT is what you should be looking at, and not whinging about mods not winning the game for town. None of Sylencia, sevryn, sn0_man or zarepath ever came anywhere near modkillable levels of inactivity and you suggesting otherwise is pathetic blame-seeking. I've already explained that I thought I had as much of a part in this town loss as any of the other towns. I even quoted Prom's post pointing this out, and have tried to point out specific examples of where I failed to play well. I'm sorry if I offended you. However I'm not trying to shirk blame for the loss. I'm trying to point out that Mocsta's win was not as impressive as he and his coach seems to think it is, and that I think some of the advice he's giving postgame is not as good as other advice (such as your analysis of the game, which has legitimate criticisms of my play). | ||
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On February 21 2013 13:10 Mocsta wrote: Secondly, you made a majority - if not all - of those posts ( i didnt bother to read them) during N1. Not following through afterwards due to me being active, is stupid and very flawed logic. You always push your biggest scum read. It doesnt matter if lurker or active. Its actually worse that you let your "apparent top scum read" take indirect control. Thats completely on you. I agree completely. My thinking was that I had no chance to actually stop you (or Corazon, since I suspected him as well) from taking control, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have tried. In the post you're replying to, I was responding to geript's assertion that nobody had analyzed your play at all. I did, I just never went anywhere with it =/ Part of this is due to your good play, and part of it is due to a lack of good or even active town play (myself included). | ||
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Also I'm offended that Acrofales accused me of "pathetic blame seeking" and "whinging", when I was trying to reasonably discuss actions a host can take to combat lurking in a newbie mini, and am more than willing to accept my own failings in this game. | ||
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This is a really nitpicky point, so I'll just drop it. I'm sorry if I've offended you as well, I think you are misconstruing my point. e: In case you guys still don't understand why I brought the point up with Acrofales: On February 19 2013 10:27 warbaby wrote: He gives no indication that he's going to have time to play going forward, so replacing him seems appropriate, at a minimum. And I agree, this is a stupid game. If mandalor got modkilled for inactivity (and I don't see how posting twice in 97 hours can be construed as activity) and flips town then it would be a fittingly stupid end. I don't want to just give up, but it's really frustrating It really is very frustrating to not be able to play the game properly (although I'll admit that this perception itself was a mistake). I'm not saying this is Acro's fault at all. It sounds like he did everything he could to avoid this =/ | ||
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I'll admit I made mistakes D1, Acro already pointed this out and I said I agree with him. Thanks for being a jerk about it, though =/ I'll stop posting because thrawn told me to, but Cora you really misunderstood what I was trying to say there. =/ | ||
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I'm even saying that my perception was wrong, and I was wrong for working on that assumption. I'm not blaming you =/ | ||
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My #1 lesson from '36 was to try to be calmer and less of a jerk. I think that will still be my #1 lesson going forward xD + Show Spoiler + If this game teaches me to be a nicer, more rational person, it'll be worth the effort and stress. | ||
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On February 21 2013 14:07 cDgCorazon wrote: It's all good, I just need to learn to stick with my guns more. I really should've lynched Sevryn. Anyways I'm ready to forget this nightmare of a game. Too bad I can't drink... Yeah, it was dumb of me to switch off sevryn to sylencia on D3. I switched because sevryn was actually making what could be construed as pro-town posts, and I thought there was some merit to the idea that he was faking the roleblock claims. It was also hard to look back at sylencia's filter and find posts that were helpful to town, while sevryn did have a few of these (in between the rather effortless still-lurking posts that he tended to make). If you refer to the big link post I made about sevryn on N2, I really was not impressed with his play. They (the scumteam) picked up on this and fixed it, but it was a mistake for me to accept their last-minute fix. I think the lesson here is to go after someone if they look scummy over the whole length of the game, and not give up because they temporarily seem less scummy than someone else. Also, I'm not sure anyone had a town read on Mandalor like Mocsta suggests. I thought his rather hardcore lurking was less scummy than the semi-active lurking of sylencia and sevryn, but I had a null read on Mandalor before he swooped in with his last minute post on D3. | ||
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On February 21 2013 14:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Wait how were Mocsta and Cora the only active townies? Man, I really wish I didn't get killed N1. Everybody forgot about me and I didn't contribute anything but shit play. I was talking about active players the context of N2 and D3. I really wish Mocsta had not been smart enough to shoot you N1. | ||
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On February 21 2013 14:18 ObviousOne wrote: Come play LX Experience all that the Brown has to offer. For the Brown is like gravity. It is an undeniable truth. And the truth? The truth sets you free. Dude did you read Chezinu's posts in the LIX scum qt? Chez is totally not nuts at all, and he's playing you like a fiddle if you join his Brown Brotherhood. | ||
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On February 21 2013 14:20 Mocsta wrote: I thought for this game it would be to not blatantly copy other game posts as a reason to be "pro-town"/promote discussion. At least paraphrase; or drop off the NMM36. Well, I started typing the same list to post in '37 but I figured I could just save time and copy paste. My inspiration is Prom's "welcome to my town, you will do [xyz sensible things]" posts, which people do not seem to freak out over as much. Clearly a mistake, lol. You made two really good points earlier:
e: actually it looks like I did rephrase it, but i swore i considered just pasting the same thing from '36, to see what would happen. newbie games are place to learn, right? | ||
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What's the point? I thought Mocsta was giving bad advice in the post-game because he's extremely egotistical. He was assuming that I and others had reads on other players that we didn't have, and then gave us poor advice based on his false assumptions. I would be fine if he wasn't playing in the game and handing out poor advice in the post-game, but since he was a player and asserting the correctness of his advice based on his self-perceived greatness, I find this behavior to be unsporting and obnoxious. | ||
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On February 22 2013 03:26 Sn0_Man wrote: Town has collectively bitched incessantly about everything in the game without any person reasonably taking blame upon themselves except zare (who seriously deserves a lot less than most other players). I'm not sure that that indicates much learning, which is kinda the goal of Newbie games no? (Okay hilarity is another goal). Sorry, but you're wrong. I've also been happy to point out flaws in my own play in this post-game, and not blame these flaws on other players. I do have beef with how other people on town played, but I've repeatedly said that I also played poorly. | ||
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