EPTTL Mafia LIX - Page 63
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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DearestSnot
Germany200 Posts
On January 22 2013 22:12 FiveTouch wrote: A couple of things for the moment. This is lazy and incorrect. It's extremely easy for anyone of any alignment to call out someone posting nonsense. How you read this as pretty townie is baffling, bugs. Please explain in detail why you believe this to be the case. I can find few, if any, redeeming features for Oatsmaster. I would specifically like sandroba's thoughts on this. Oatsmaster has attacked me twice since the deadline, when there is no basis for doing so: Given I'm pretty much guaranteed to be town, these are both really out of place. I don't believe this is a correct way of approaching things. JieXian voted for me late - my mayorship was almost 100% guaranteed by the time JieXian gave me his vote. You could think of it as a late bus on a mafia wagon that was already in the lead. I'm hoping to find the time to re-read Day 1 to find the point where my candidacy was assured, or at least very likely. The reactions of mafia are likely to change throughout the day. I would like everybody to read Vivax's case on JieXian, made shortly before the deadline. Please tell me why you agree or disagree, and what conclusions you have. debears - you were part of the fiasco that was LVIII, yet your contributions remain mostly unproductive. Please step it up so that we don't risk repeating such events in this town. Now is the time for your Djodref case, or indeed any case. I would give you a 90-95% confidence that Oats is town. Look at how active and transparent he is being; in hindsight all of his posts look like that. His wariness to electing you and his initial backlash is very natural for almost any player, given that you initially ran on the platform of killing him. From his perspective you were some vet he can't even specifically accuse gunning for his lynch, with not much to say other than "you're wrong, I'm not scum." Secondly, his attitude on prplhz is not that surprising. Almost every player in the game found a better lynch than prplhz and I honestly would have myself if I were not aware of prplhz's meta. In fact, meta is almost the sole reason I was suspicious of him in the first place. You can't peg his alignment to the validity of his opinions when you know he doesn't perceive the game in the same way you do. How can you expect a less experienced player, whom you just tried to kill, to see the game in the same light as you? It doesn't make sense and quite honestly isn't fair. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 23 2013 01:09 DearestSnot wrote: I would give you a 90-95% confidence that Oats is town. Look at how active and transparent he is being; in hindsight all of his posts look like that. His wariness to electing you and his initial backlash is very natural for almost any player, given that you initially ran on the platform of killing him. From his perspective you were some vet he can't even specifically accuse gunning for his lynch, with not much to say other than "you're wrong, I'm not scum." Secondly, his attitude on prplhz is not that surprising. Almost every player in the game found a better lynch than prplhz and I honestly would have myself if I were not aware of prplhz's meta. In fact, meta is almost the sole reason I was suspicious of him in the first place. You can't peg his alignment to the validity of his opinions when you know he doesn't perceive the game in the same way you do. How can you expect a less experienced player, whom you just tried to kill, to see the game in the same light as you? It doesn't make sense and quite honestly isn't fair. To the bolded - the issue is that Oats did not have a single scumread at the time, so an explanation of having found a better lynch simply doesn't ring true. There are also the multitude of points where he wilfully twisted points that I was making, or questions that had already been directly addressed, for example: On January 21 2013 10:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Why is me commenting on the pressure and the fact that it could snowball scummy? He's asking a question which is answered within the quote he's answering. Or this post, made shortly after I explained why I was voting for myself: On January 21 2013 11:34 Oatsmaster wrote: So you made up your mind that town was useless after 12 hours? Why didnt you push to be mayor before? Cause you wanted to see how you could manipulate town? Or cause you are lazy and wanted other town to have the responsibility? Or again here, where he misrepresents what I said: On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Terrible questions equal scum? I didnt know that bad play was scummy play as well :O Further, look at the vast differences of opinion he has on me: On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him. On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. This is in addition to the original problem of his defence of JieXian, which he defended to the hilt, but was finally forced to back down when I provided evidence that what he claimed wasn't true. The first quote is simply a flat-out lie: On January 21 2013 12:17 Oatsmaster wrote: It was quickly becoming, YEAH IM IN FAVOUR OF LYNCHING JX CAUSE VETS SAID HE WAS SCUM. yeah, which is dumb as fuck. On January 21 2013 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok 5touch, I was wrong and you were right, I just feel that JX wasent scum off those 2 posts. HOWEVER, his disappearance since then is not good for him being town. I dont want to vote for a mayor that advocates lurker lynching because it removes the responsibility that the mayor has to justify his lynches. I want the mayor to not be fucking retarded and actually takes some responsibility for his actions. I will take your opinions into account, but there are a whole plethora of reasons to think Oatsmaster is mafia. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 23 2013 02:16 Toadesstern wrote: back. Palmar you're okay with me giving the names of the bodyguard to Sandro later on, right? There's a reasonably good argument for telling the whole thread who the bodyguards are. For example, if mafia chose to have 2 bodyguards and simply shot both of us. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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DearestSnot
Germany200 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On January 22 2013 17:04 Toadesstern wrote: Quadruple-post ftw: JX might actually be more likely mafia for the #2 slot than oats, but that'd make oats go to #3 together with debears. I know JX somewhat from the TL-language exchanging thread. He has my skype and we're skyping in german every once in a while. I'd say every 2nd or every 3rd day for an hour, maybe a bit longer? So I'd say I know him somewhat outside of the game. That being said I think he'd be the kind of guy who'd have troubles to post as mafia while talking freely about what's on his mind as town. I obviously can't back that one up at all and it's a personal opinion that could be wrong but I think so :p I haven't caught up yet but I have to say, it takes me 2 fucking hours to catch up before I can post. There's so much stuff to read. And lately I've not been online on Skype these few days for a long time too, you should know. I've been playing poker at night :D Sandro thinks I'm scummy because of my activity. You can check my meta on witchcraft mafia. I don't have the luxury of sitting in front of my laptop the whole day =( I kept posting during the usual time even after suspicions were off me, though I'm posting a lot later because I've been playing poker and I have a shitload to read before I get back + Show Spoiler [Quote from Witchcraft] + On December 23 2012 04:43 JieXian wrote: you do realise that every day, especially around ~9-11Pm gmt+8 I post in huge waves and leave right after that right? On December 23 2012 04:44 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah, but it's hard to get a read on you when your posting is limited by that timeframe. I'm also generally busy during that time. Since I'm posting I'm going to justify my mayor vote since either 5touch of WBG raised it. austinmcc : Didn't like his case on stutters at all Chezinu : Trolling the whole damn game and he may be scum but apparently it's his style and I have yet to read his meta. Don't want a troll for mayor Toadesstern : Infamous mafia player and suggested some stupid things like voting the village idiot as sherrif and trolling around at times while making a few good points. His mason claim and log doesn't convince me since mafia can also mason. And the contents mean nothing if he's pretending and I have firsthand experience of his pretending skills :D. Someone please tell me why are they convinced that Toad is town because of that because he's still a null for me gonzaw : Started out good but ended up babbling to himself and giving empty promises. Don't trust him with reads and may be scum Leaving FiveTouch , the player providing clear and good arguments and contributing. Even if he's scum I think he deserves his Mayorial position because he and WBG are appearing very pro town. However nothing is confirmed yet for me since they are vets and good at the game. It was a no brainer, really. There simply wasn't another alternative. On January 22 2013 06:19 Vivax wrote: Wouldn't it be funny if I just hit scum with my time-zone-unawareness-argument and no one still commented on this or how JX dodged my question? He clearly lied about it. Could just have said: "Meh, didn't think about it". Doesn't it make him look like he knows he's guilty? This question is especially relevant for the people thinking he's town. My intentions were clear : I erred and admited my mistake by correcting and announcing that I erred. Your accusation would have been valid if I have actually edited my post. You're not making any sense. Toad's and Sandro's reads on my were reasonable. Your are being crazy. For that matter, I thought you were American because of your good English. You're either scum or really really mad or really really stupid. I'm inclined to rule out the last point and I can't decide if you're scum yet but I think it isn't too likely for now, so I think you may be pissed. I'm sorry. Stop going crazy. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 23 2013 02:27 DearestSnot wrote: I think we're just going to have to disagree on Oats, I don't actually see how he is misrepresenting you. I honestly (no offense to oats) don't see it being likely that he would be able to subtly twist words like that under duress. It simply looks like he was clouded and didn't understand why you wanted him dead-under that kind of pressure players are not likely to read very clearly. There are meta arguments that point to him being mafia as well, although obviously they aren't that strong on their own. I will bring these up later. Whether you agree on the misrepresentation, there still remains: - his fast about-turn on me, going from "posting 1 liners and not much else" to "leaking town through his pores" - his extremely suspicious defence of JieXian, which he defended based on a lie. If his entire defence to this suspicious action was a lie, where does that leave us? He said that he was defending JieXian against a fast-bandwagon, and was forced to admit that one didn't even exist, nor looked like it exists. So what is the explanation for what he did? | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
What is this about? | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 23 2013 02:26 Toadesstern wrote: I actually considered doing the bullshit and protect you tonight for that very reason. If they want to all-in they might be able to do so with a Jack by shooting you, me and Sandroba after all as well. Yes, we absolutely cannot presume we're safe tonight. Planning under that assumption is risky. I don't particularly see many downsides to the thread knowing the bodyguards. If the bodyguards are indeed town and mafia want to shoot them to get through to us, they will have made a fine sacrifice in the line of duty, and I will commemorate them with statues of gold. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On January 22 2013 19:53 Vivax wrote: Any protective roles should also take a shot at thinking about me. Most people think I'm town as of now, especially more influential ones, I see myself as quite endangered just cause of that. Mafias aren't retards, you're safe :D | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 23 2013 02:40 FiveTouch wrote: Yes, we absolutely cannot presume we're safe tonight. Planning under that assumption is risky. I don't particularly see many downsides to the thread knowing the bodyguards. If the bodyguards are indeed town and mafia want to shoot them to get through to us, they will have made a fine sacrifice in the line of duty, and I will commemorate them with statues of gold. Well mafia has a maximum of 3 KP. If they want to all-in they can if they have a Jack because that'd mean they could shoot you, me and Sandro. That also means a single protection on any of us means we get 2 confirmed mafias because the survivor can just tell the name of the 2 fake bodyguards to the thread. I don't really see the benefit of telling the thread ahead of time though. I already said the protection I was considering as well (protecting you instead of Sandro / WBG / gonzaw) would be wasted in 99% of the times an only will be useful if they really opt to all-in. But that'd be fine with me for the offchance of major big plays and getting to know 2 mafias. We could be prefectly fine if I tell the bodyguards to Sandro and just have you protected for 100% safety tonight. Though I don't actually know if I can protect tonight... | ||
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DearestSnot
Germany200 Posts
Also I think town are far more likely than scum to admit a mistake or change their opinion as drastically as he did regarding you. Most scum find it too hard or scary to change their opinion on the fly like that, because it calls too much attention to themselves. Anyway this is all I'm going to say on the matter since I'm not terribly concerned that Oats will get lynched. I think annul or debears are far better targets for tomorrow, or even someone like Clarity or BKE. | ||
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DearestSnot
Germany200 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
@JX I think the same applies to you, can you do the same? | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 23 2013 02:57 DearestSnot wrote: Defending people unnecessarily has been endemic to the forum recently. I don't see how Oats doing this is any worse than people inexplicably defending prplhz or whomever after only one or two suspicions have been raised. Perhaps he saw a bandwagon on a weak townie in a previous game, perhaps he simply viewed the situation differently at the time and only realized in hindsight he was wrong, who knows. Also I think town are far more likely than scum to admit a mistake or change their opinion as drastically as he did regarding you. Most scum find it too hard or scary to change their opinion on the fly like that, because it calls too much attention to themselves. Anyway this is all I'm going to say on the matter since I'm not terribly concerned that Oats will get lynched. I think annul or debears are far better targets for tomorrow, or even someone like Clarity or BKE. You're rather missing the points. Oats did not defend JieXian directly, he attacked the bandwagon that didn't exist. His entire explanation was relating to the bandwagon. This is not the same as randomly defending people from accusations, which is simply bad (as well as possibly mafia-oriented). Oatsmaster was almost forced to change his opinion on me, for the sake of survival. He could have been asked to change his stance on me in a scumQT, who knows? There is absolutely no explanation for the about-turn. Actually the simplest explanation isn't a townie willing to change his mind with no explanation, the simplest explanation is a mafia doing what was best to try to ensure his survival. Just note prplhz voting for me at the end of the Day. "posting only one liners" -> "leaking town through his pores" is not a natural progression. Most of your arguments are either unconvincing or based on weak premises. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 23 2013 02:58 DearestSnot wrote: Toad: DO NOT go for a fucking "big play". It's too big of a risk for them to out two bodyguards to kill your or FT and quite honestly I'd rather just let you die to out two scum. Aim your jail at someone who is actually likely to get hit. well if all of Sandroba / Palmar / myself die there's no way we can tell you the bodyguards unless Palmar tells you in the thread but I don't like that idea at all... And yeah I agree it's very unlikely to happen, have been talking a bit with Sandro as well. They however have to at least deal with Palmar as soon as possible and if they're doing that they might as well finish me at the same time.. | ||
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