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On January 22 2013 01:32 Vivax wrote:
I think it was sloppiness that I wouldn't expect to have happened if you were town. I think you were creating paper reasons to defend JX.
As vet you should know best about sandros accuracy, and you making such a mistake while analysing sandros scumread shows that you were sloppy where you shouldn't be.
It was a big mistake. We don't have a jester, and you didn't follow JXs line of thought. Following the line of thought is essential in finding scum, so I assume you didn't have that intention when commenting on his post, intention you should have when sandro points it out and you are town. I don't know sandro particularly well, beyond reputation. We played in Bureaucracy, where I thought he was lying. We played in Paranoia, where he replaced in and I knew he was scum. He died in Chrono Trigger before I joined, but was scum. We were both town in world-swapping mafia, and I did find his reads good there and paid attention to his posts, but he died N1. We played in looney lynching, but iirc he was gone for most of D1 and almost got himself killed. I do not remember his reads being particularly great that game, iirc he was on prplhz's case and prplhz flipped town. So, not tons of experience with him as a player.
As to the rest, that's fine. Yes, I misread that part of JX's post. I still don't find that post scummy, however. That wasn't the only thing I picked up from JX's post that I read as mildly townie, and overall I'm just not convinced on the scumminess of that post.
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On January 22 2013 01:35 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 01:04 austinmcc wrote:On January 22 2013 00:44 FiveTouch wrote:
austin, scumteams don't tell someone to stop posting when they're potentially in trouble. Especially they don't tell them that once the guy said he's catching up on the thread, that he shouldn't post again. So, I generally agree with this. I'll back off pushing that point. I've seen frustrated scumteams when one member who's semi-inactive gets suspicion on him early, but you're right, the general mood in QT then is to try and get the guy to be more active. Unsure if the amount of pressure that stutters has gotten this game really amounts to much though, so I'd like to try and get some focus back on him. Really one of the only defensive comments that I can remember is Bugs saying he's often scummy as town. I'm not satisfied with that, and I still don't like stutters play, even if you take out the thought that others might be telling him to keep his head down. Do you think that without that point stutters looks fine? Just looks like an inactive dude?
As to your lynch candidates, I don't like the contradiction part of the case on prplhz. Yes, he said he didn't like policy lynches and now ran on lynching chezinu. But I don't think all contradictions are scummy, and I don't think contradictory quotes from months ago in a different game + quotes from this game are particularly strong. Both the policy lynch quotes AND the early bullshit at the start of a game quotes span different games and a couple months. There's more merit to the second than the first, people say all sorts of bullshit about policy lynches, but actively saying you're against dumb/flashy entrances to get the game moving and then saying you often do that...is more troubling. In some ways, you reconcile the second contradiction with your own filter-diving of prplhz, though. You grabbed a lot of flashy entrances, or peculiar entrances to threads, and they were from scum games. It's pretty clear that his play does not match up with his statement that he doesn't like starting games off in a certain way to get discussion going, or at least you seem to be saying that with your above post. You think only scum prplhz starts off that way and town prplhz actually practices what he previously preached? Or do you think prplhz's comment about not liking bullshit at the start of the game is bullshit itself? austin, I agree Stutters doesn't look good, and agree with what you said, apart from what I highlighted already. My issue with a Stutters lynch is that it's very similar to prplhz (bad entrance, bad followup), except prplhz has done more and worse than Stutters, so he's a better lynch. In the town games I looked at from prplhz, I did not find one instance of him entering in a 'trolly' way, as opposed to the multitude of scumgames provided. This is why I have asked prplhz to provide me with an example - I don't think it exists. I guess I'm just used to seeing prplhz get lynched early on, and most of the games I've been involved in they've been mislynches. Rock Band, looney lynching, are the ones that come to mind for town prplhz getting pressured off the bat but flipping town. I know that I've read or obsed a few games in which the same thing happened with him as mafia though, can't remember names but he claimed cop D1 in some mini and lived for a while/til endgame.
I'm looking at him and stutters more, but maybe I'm just overly wary of early prplhz lynches because I keep seeing wagons get built on him that can't be derailed, whether by scum or town.
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I am used to stutters playing like that day1. I remember pushing him myself for behaving like that when I was scum in YANMM. Why pick him out of other lurkers, austin?
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok 5touch, I was wrong and you were right, I just feel that JX wasent scum off those 2 posts.
HOWEVER, his disappearance since then is not good for him being town.
I dont want to vote for a mayor that advocates lurker lynching because it removes the responsibility that the mayor has to justify his lynches. I want the mayor to not be fucking retarded and actually takes some responsibility for his actions.
On January 22 2013 01:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok with Austin's reappearance, I am inclined to vote for him as mayor. Why? Because I feel that he has put in more effort into finding scum than 5touch and that he is willing to be transparent and all the things various people have said that the mayor be.
He also stood up to lurky sandro early about JX when he couldve ignored the incident. That is one of the reasons I have a town tell on him. I also agree with his lynch target now that I read his reasoning and Stutter's filter.
Stutter's posted 4 posts and just disappeared, I feel that as a town player, his start wouldve been continued through the thread but it was not to be which makes me think that he is putting up a front of activity at the start to allay all suspicions then lurking his way through the rest of the game.
Vote: Austinmcc
cool story bro. Anyone voting for austin is voting for the same dude as this guy. Or even this guy:
On January 21 2013 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
So many people sheeping 'Fivetouch'
Gonna be a good game huh.
On January 21 2013 11:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
So you made up your mind that town was useless after 12 hours?
Why didnt you push to be mayor before? Cause you wanted to see how you could manipulate town? Or cause you are lazy and wanted other town to have the responsibility?
On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else.
FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him.
On January 21 2013 17:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
Who is currently running for mayor other than the retards who want to lynch me?
On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok on to FiveTouch,
He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads.
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FT for mayor, that's out of discussion. Screw austin and gonzaw, they have to stay in put positions.
Just make me his second hand and this town is set for victory.
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Quick analysis of Stutters in past games:
Newbie XXVI
Stutters is a vigi. Active D1, not so much after that, gets a small amount of pressure. Says this being active was the anomaly? (That's what I got from a quick, quick filter dive). Noted that he had read past games, asked to have someone's filter added to the OP, had a plan for when and how he claimed as vigi. Shows me that he's read games, was actively reading/trying to read through this game (asking for filters to be added), and had a general game plan.
Newbie XXVII
Modkilled D2 for not voting. However, again shows signs of activity and ... playing the dang game - Filter. He gets on kush early, sees something and finds it scummy + asks questions. Then stays on kush. Follows up, asks more questions, even when he says he has become unsure on kush, he's still actively poking kush and trying to get a read. He also has Real Thoughts. There are others, but I've pulled that one out as a decent example. He's reading thread, gives his own opinion with reasoning to back it up, participates even in a game where he got modkilled later for not voting.
Newbie XXVIII
Town again. Modkilled again for not voting  . Based off the vote counts, he picked up 0 votes on D2 and 0 votes on D3, which leads me to believe that people DID NOT interpret him as scummy while being town. More short posts, a lot of "i have to go because of x" and "i'm back from x." Not nearly as much participation, not as much meat, but a little.
Whose Line
Replaced in. Basic thoughts. Seems to be getting pressured some. Responses have actual reasons. responds to some cases and pushes them forward. Did have suspicion on him. Did get mislynched. I wasn't in the game and didn't read along. Replaced into the game though, so I'm not giving this a ton of credence.
YANMM
Again town. Survived til endgame. I see him having 1-2 votes for a couple days, but those votes were ONLY from bugs and vivax, and vivax was scum that game.
Okay, I'm done with this nonsense. The #1 trend I see in Stutters town play is that he won't vote and he'll get modkilled. I DO NOT see the suspicion that Bugs mentioned, except in the two most recent games, and I don't see the votes corresponding with that suspicion in YANMM. It was just bugs and vivax. I DID NOT PLAY YANNM OR WHOSE LINE. I HAVE NOT FULLY READ THEM. NOR HAVE I READ ANY OTHER FULL STUTTERS GAME.
However, in looking at his filters, I see much more play than here. When he's gone, he says so, comes back, posts actual thoughts. He has suspicions, he makes cases, he is playing the game. Here, he has not played the game. His posts look like empty questions and nothing, which goes directly against his play in other games. I do not buy "he looks scummy as town" based on a replacement game and a game where only scum and bugs voted for him. Bugs, you're more than welcome to refute this and give me some other people who thought stutters was scummy, but upon scanning his past games I'm MORE convinced he's scum this game.
Everyone else, there are the games he's played. You're welcome to check them for yourselves. I find stutters scummy this game, and more scummy after reading his other games.
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On January 22 2013 01:45 Vivax wrote:
I am used to stutters playing like that day1. I remember pushing him myself for behaving like that when I was scum in YANMM. Why pick him out of other lurkers, austin?
See the very first post I made on him. He asked some dinky nothingquestions, and didn't follow them up. I'm not "picking him out of other lurkers," I actively read his posts and didn't like them, he comes off scummy. Upon reading up on him, he comes off scummy.
"Picking someone out of other lurkers" is a silly phrase. If you think I'm scummy, say so, but "picking someone out of other lurkers" is a scummy thing to do. It implies that I looked through the lurkers, found one to pin a mislynch on, and rolled with it. When in actuality, his post is just bad and his play since then hasn't changed my mind.
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11589 Posts
Austin, Stutters definitely plays like this day 1 as town, I played with him in YANMM and it looks identical.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
The fact you're not taking issue with Oatsmaster, austin, is worrisome.
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On January 22 2013 02:11 FiveTouch wrote:
The fact you're not taking issue with Oatsmaster, austin, is worrisome.
I AM BUT ONE MAN. Looking at prplhz a little now, oatsmaster comes after. But I wanted to look at stutters and gonzaw.
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On January 22 2013 02:11 yamato77 wrote:
Austin, Stutters definitely plays like this day 1 as town, I played with him in YANMM and it looks identical.
Did you play with him in the other three games linked above?
If so, does his play this game look identical to those?
If not, does his play this game look identical to those?
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Austin
I would rather stutters be vig shot. He is lurky as town also and hasn't contributed much as town in the games I've been with him. He's one of those hard to read guys.
A lynch on him doesn't give us much to work with even if he is scum due to his lurkiness
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11589 Posts
On January 22 2013 02:13 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 02:11 yamato77 wrote:
Austin, Stutters definitely plays like this day 1 as town, I played with him in YANMM and it looks identical. Did you play with him in the other three games linked above? If so, does his play this game look identical to those? If not, does his play this game look identical to those?
The problem is that you have failed to show how any perceived difference in his play from those newbie games equates to him being scum, when I have firsthand experience with Stutters as a town player and he looks very similar to this game.
He doesn't have a scum game for you to show similarities to, but your case on him is weak in its current form.
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Austin, 3 of us have said that he plays the same, and all three of us have played at least one game with him. I personally don't hold newbie games to that high of a regard when considering meta, and the fact that you found multiple instances of him being modkilled simply furthers the idea that he plays inactively as town.
I wouldn't say I'm confident he's town, but I will certainly say that you cannot call him scum based on meta. He's definitely a worse pick than even slightly scummy players in this game, and I would warrant that he is much worse than both Oats and prplhz.
Gonna catch up on reading since all I caught was the last page.
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On January 22 2013 02:11 FiveTouch wrote:
The fact you're not taking issue with Oatsmaster, austin, is worrisome.
Okay, swapping to actually look at oats over others, because he's more interesting and you're going to give me grief here.
Oats has an asston of one-liners. Lots of one-liner questions, snarky one-liner comments.
His town game in Newbie XXXV, died N1 as vigi, generally has more commentary and it's not just one liners. But there are still a decent amount of small questions, lots of little brief posts.
He was scum in Newbie XXXII. That filter is FULL of small questions. Jesus that filter is horrendous. Link. It's all short, it's all quippy, lots of dinky little questions. Also managed to rack up a 7-page filter of one-liners and crap.
Chrono was heavily themed, but his posts are slightly longer there from what I can see. However, his filters in both newbie games are full of little quips and questions, but slightly more when he was scum (imo).
That's all past games, though. This game...
I find him to be really inconsistent in his stuff about his early defense of JX. Saying there was pressure, saying there wasn't but a wagon might form, etc. That stuff doesn't look good.
He's also nicely inconsistent on you, fivetouch. To some extent that may be connected to your wanting to lynch him, which I'll admit would make me not want to vote someone for mayor.
I find this post townie - + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote:What made you change your mind Fivetouch? I thought your answer to why you didnt want to be mayor was So what changed? Yamato Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 13:51 yamato77 wrote:On January 20 2013 13:49 grush57 wrote:
Well I think he meant that everyone is running and whoever is the best scumhunter should get elected. Basically this. Which makes sandroba's "I'm not running for mayor" post a huge fucking red flag in my eyes. Why would any town player not want the chance at being mayor, especially someone with his reputation? It offers protection, something he sorely needs if he is town. Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 20:32 yamato77 wrote:
I find my suspicions on Toad unwarranted. I may have to look at some Sandroba scum games to get a better read on him. His excuse is convenient but honestly it means nothing. So red flag became null read? Why?
He's commented more on JX than anyone else, imo. Lots of bringing that up and using it. Just an interesting thing in his filter.
I'm not as clear-cut on oats as you guys are. He's not just null, there are definitely townie and scummy parts of his filter. Just not sure how I'm weighing them atm. To the extent you find him scummy based off posting style, his posting in past games looks scummy to me regardless of alignment, at least in terms of how much of it is one-liners, small questions.
Someone who thinks he's scummy, talk with me about that yamato post. Does it do anything for you at all, even if it doesn't change your mind?
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On January 22 2013 01:23 Vivax wrote:
I don't care if the elected roles are smurf, they have to be vets, and they have to be trustworthy.
Gonzaw isn't trustworthy for shoveling shit at me for being absent after my candidacy like JX did + trying to be overly politically correct to everyone.
austin isn't trustworthy for using artificial reasons to defend JX and picking stutters as lynch candidate.
Austin used the argument: "Slight paranoia is townie" cause he wrote something about a Toad jester. Austin clearly didn't give a shit about JXs alignment from the start. That's my interpretation. FT already pointed out that this was a mistake.
Seriously, stay the fuck away from gonzaw and austin. I'd rather have Chezinu mayor than these two.
On January 22 2013 01:55 Vivax wrote:
FT for mayor, that's out of discussion. Screw austin and gonzaw, they have to stay in put positions.
Just make me his second hand and this town is set for victory.
Those two statements are a huge contradiction
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On January 22 2013 02:26 DearestSnot wrote:
Austin, 3 of us have said that he plays the same, and all three of us have played at least one game with him. I personally don't hold newbie games to that high of a regard when considering meta, and the fact that you found multiple instances of him being modkilled simply furthers the idea that he plays inactively as town.
I wouldn't say I'm confident he's town, but I will certainly say that you cannot call him scum based on meta. He's definitely a worse pick than even slightly scummy players in this game, and I would warrant that he is much worse than both Oats and prplhz.
Gonna catch up on reading since all I caught was the last page. I don't think he should be lynched off of meta. But you, specifically, noted that he felt scummy as town. I wanted to check up on that and make sure.
What I found was that he may have felt scummy to you guys last game, but that both doesn't seem to be the case in his earlier games AND the votes in YANMM don't line up with strong suspicion. He survived until endgame, and in the votecounts never had a vote from someone not you or scum. There's some kind of line between looking scummy and looking scummy enough to garner votes/get lynched. Maybe you guys always had better candidates, I don't know, but I don't think the looks scummy while being town defense holds at all.
Which leaves me still finding his play THIS GAME to be scummy, and worth lynching him over. I don't want to lynch him on meta, but the only positive comment I saw flung his way was your meta-comment, which just doesn't check out for me. I'd disagree that he's a worse lynch than other players, and he remains my top candidate.
When you catch up, talk to me about oats. In a vacuum, how does that post of his on yamato read?
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On January 22 2013 02:05 austinmcc wrote:
Okay, I'm done with this nonsense. The #1 trend I see in Stutters town play is that he won't vote and he'll get modkilled.
He's an inactive player and yet you want to lynch him for inactivity? What?
On January 21 2013 15:35 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 15:32 mkfuba07 wrote:On January 21 2013 15:26 debears wrote:On January 21 2013 13:38 Toadesstern wrote:On January 21 2013 13:21 yamato77 wrote:On January 21 2013 09:14 yamato77 wrote:On January 21 2013 09:03 Vivax wrote:
## Vote Sandroba
If he's town, he won't be killed and be of great use.
If he's scum, he won't be able to hide it for long in that position.
Don't choose based on some mood. Even if sandro doesn't want it, a good town should want him in that position.
I don't like austin, I don't like gonzaw. Clarity didn't post his reads and he's usually not the guy who wants to take the lead. Voting Chezinu, are you fucking kidding me?Oatsmaster? Nah. Vivax wtf kind of post is this? Vote for a guy who doesn't want to be mayor, with really shitty "if he's scum" logic. There's never a good reason to give a free lynch to a player you don't have a really good town read on. You're proposing to trade the office of mayor, with the protection and the powerful synergy with mason roles, for a read on a single player that can easily be ascertained otherwise. Why do you seem to care so little for who becomes mayor if it isn't you? You "don't like" Austin or gonzaw, but you don't say why. You seem ready to discredit Chezinu on a moment's notice, when I see him as a valid candidate. This is not constructive town posting, Vivax. You've done very little but worry about your own image so far this game and it's worrisome to me that you're reacting so negatively to people not wanting to elect you. Yes, Toad, this is totally me just saying Vivax doesn't think like me and is there for scum, you got me. I think I did a pretty good job equating what he's doing with this post to scum motives in posts in my filter, and you brushing it off as him not agreeing with me is retarded and a malicious misrepresentation. You're just trying to make me look bad and get me angry at the same time. Do you honestly think Vivax would be send out by his (supposedly) mafia team for a candacy as mayor? Do you honestly think Vivax would be so carefree as mafia to candidate for mayor and not post for the next *idk* bunch of hours? Don't you think Vivax would have been way to scared to candidate for mayor as mafia? Especially given his recent game as mafia that he, against all odds still won due to massive town modkills. Do you honestly think Vivax would be dropping a vote like that if he has multiple people in irc / QT / whatever to ask on who to vote? With that "reasoning" he provided? Sure it's bullshit, it's one of the most retarded posts I've seen in this game so far but do you really think he'd do that as mafia? Mafias think about what they're posting and while it might happen that they slip it is an incredibly far fetched assumption to believe team mafia would send out someone like vivax, who is a very new player, who isn't particularry known for being good as mafia + Show Spoiler [anecdote] +remember YANMN? He was busted on d2 or something like that and got 2 more spare days because we had debears claiming SK in the thread and modkills that made people think it's better to no-lynch once to get one more cycle in case Vivax SOMEHOW ended up flipping town to stay in the open, getting heat from everyone and do all that on purpose? You've got to be kidding me if you think those are mafiatreats. This is wrong. So wrong. Vivax had an extensive mayoral post written up before the game, as shown by how quickly he posted it after daypost. His mayoral election run is a null tell But the fact that he posted it so quickly after the game started is, to some people, indicative of his towniness. I agree with them. A scum player would likely wait to post, until after he's discussed it in the QT. I don't think it's 100%, but it has me leaning town for him, and nothing has particularly tipped him back to scum yet. Scum has nothing to risk from him running and everything to gain. He looks like he cares about town with it. Everyone will disregard him because he doesn't have good reads as town. As town, he cares about town. He wants to become mayor despite his reads
On January 21 2013 15:43 debears wrote:
Gonzaw
Do you honestly believe a town vivax would see himself good enough to be a good mayor?
Hell I purposely didn't post a mayoral election because I decided it wouldn't be beneficial for town when there are vets who are much better than me
So is running for mayor as a townie who knows he's bad actually a townie sign or not? You can't seem to make up your mind >_>
I can't decide between gonzaw and Fivetouch as mayor for now.
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On January 22 2013 02:37 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 02:05 austinmcc wrote:
Okay, I'm done with this nonsense. The #1 trend I see in Stutters town play is that he won't vote and he'll get modkilled. He's an inactive player and yet you want to lynch him for inactivity? What? Negatory.
He was actually quite active in the games he got modkilled. It looks more like he didn't vote, or got caught up last minute and missed voting, then got modkilled. It's odd, but oh well.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
austin, why did you fail to address the point that Oatsmaster didn't even look into the case on prplhz or comment on it, saying that he was against any mayor who wanted to lynch a lurker, and then further ended up voting for you because he liked that you were killing this particular lurker?
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EPT
