Heya! Sorry for not posting earlier I was sleeping/reading the thread. To be honest I am still kinda shell shocked from reading 30+ pages straight makes me almost glad for the lurkers... However I skim read a lot due to the lynch time being soon.
However I now have a feel for most of the people and a few things recently popped up. First I ran into this
On January 15 2013 17:23 zebezt wrote: Ooh I found a question from Acid I didnt answer:
At this point I had forgotten that acid even existed, he seems to have picked up posting after this but if I remember correctly only after mentioned.
Also he goes straight for zebezt which seemed to be another in contention at the time (possible counter wagon not actual scum read?)
On January 15 2013 21:40 Spaghetticus wrote: @Acid I had assumed that when you did start posting, you would be continuing that pattern from now on. The Stuff you posted was seemed good, but you still have the smallest filter.
I know this is a backflip since you weren't on my list of people under pressure, but your complete lack of activity is giving you the smallest filter, and a town shouldn't feel that he needs to be pressed into doing town activity. I want to see more from you, so while this is a vote that does have intention to lynch, it is conditional in that I will remove it the second you start contributing properly again.
##Vote: Acid
I'm fine with having the smallest filter. For now, I'm reading.
I don't feel the need to make you privy to my every inane thought, so when I have something useful to say I will post.
Until then, since nothing has changed in this regard:
##Vote: Zebezt
However from what I saw his case on Trotske seemed good, by good it was set out nicely. By this point in the thread I was starting to zone out. So I will need to go back in and formulate cases.
Because I am so far behind can you link me to critical posts and arguments recently for me read? Also ask me opinions and questions on things.
Defence. Ok unfortunately due to time I have to put up a defence of mocas case based on 8 posts the lynch and previous day one lynches... So I am going to treat him like I would if I cop checked him with no framer and was trying to show you why it’s wrong. Because he is I and I know me. If this makes sense. If not ignore everything after the dots.
First “La de da” (the person I replaced cause let’s be honest he did nothing) was compared to a guy named tmil who was scum. But I would like to point out one major difference between the play styles. TeMiL made posts to seem active while not saying anything useful (going off one example that was given)
“On January 05 2013 00:02 TeMiL wrote: ive just make a chart with your connections. i want to know for each one your nationality and the country of residence, or maybe everyone are native from each country that TL says: TeMiL - Peru Sylencia - Australia Spaghetticus - Australia Mocsta - Australia StriX - Australia OmniEulogy - Canada jampidampi - Finland cDgCorazon - USA zarepath - USA
i need to make some conclusiones with this information”
While he sucked he had a scum style due to (trying) to do stuff.
Compare this to la de dar over here who posted like.
“his guys posts is full of fluff as indicated by: ________________________________________ On January 13 2013 22:40 laguerta wrote: When does voting end? ________________________________________ ________________________________________ On January 14 2013 07:08 laguerta wrote: because im going to help the town later when i stop being super tired and lazy ________________________________________ ________________________________________ On January 13 2013 00:31 laguerta wrote: k ________________________________________ ________________________________________ On January 14 2013 07:09 laguerta wrote: ##unvote ##vote no one ________________________________________ “
Complete fluff not even trying to appear active (without posting) or town like just completely disconnected from the game. If he was this bad I would assume he would do the whole. Yay town lets win this thing that scum like to do to get people on their side. The meta from scum to town is very different.
That is as much as I can say in my defence based on his posting. (yes he lied... that is all there is too say on that I am not a mind reader of ghosts past but I can assume he just forgot what he said {lol})
Secondly, while you have a point about him possibly being confusing I believe you might be complicating the issue. He had a lot of votes on him easy. This lead to nerves which caused a vote switch. If I recall correctly the last few games I played day one both people in contention were easy to get votes on. Much like this case. While it isn’t much they were both town each time? (not sure with memory) Basically a vote switch while it might seem pointless for mafia to switch lynches it creates suspicion on the one that survived the lynch. Thus making it easier to lynch people later on. (although that last section was wifom)
This guy has gone out of this way to protect La Guerta.. even now in Day 2.. Maybe I was wrong with Omni.. but for this type of protection, there must be a relationship.I cant make sense of it any other way.
Agreed, and Day 1 I thought they might both be scum. Another option is that they are masoned together...
On the other hand, the coordination of this sudden jump-on-mocsta train reeks of scum QT planning. Obviously its not certain, but I'm going to examine the circumstances very carefully. Which sucks because I had a pretty hard town read on Acid (probably because he's always had it out for Moc rofl).
If nothing else, I still support the theory behind LAL enough to look at lynching laguerta (okay his mute replacement) over Mocsta.
@Trotske at least you are posting. And really, your posts are starting to change my mind. I so wanted to lynch you.
@Mocsta that last post sounded desperate as hell, although admittedly town don't want to be lynched either.
If Trotske and I were both scum plotting together, we would be like the worst scum team ever since my case against him got him leading the vote count right now, which is interesting. Very interesting indeed. It seems my case has produced the desired results, although not in the manner that I had intended.
Well it was pretty! You had exhibits and everything. Could have been a bus style we hate each other thing gone wrong though. The whole if I were scum argument while useful sometimes often is mildly indicative of scum trying to think how a town would. (or trying to leave the impression he is town by saying if ect...)
On January 17 2013 08:52 shz wrote: @all: Did your opinions about Jacob change? Do you think he is worth keeping around for a while?
I kinda feel that he at least contributed somewhat, though the surprise that the lynch deadline is so soon is a bit strange, it is posted with every votecount, and they were already a few of them before he started.
Near the end especially I started scim reading. I think the initial time was different? Not sure why I thought it was 12 but I probably wouldn't have joined the game if I thought I had to wake up this early every lynch :/
I know you're new to the thread, but surely you see that there are much easier bus targets than Mocsta right now.
Oh? So who do you know is scum that you could bus over him?
Nice try with the loaded question.
Just look at the guys who jumped at the chance to lynch Trotske. If that's not a bus, I'm a pineapple.
Unless you take 'bus' to mean only scum voting on scum, I mean it as scum all voting on the same target after someone initiated the vote.
xD I had to give it a shot. As for the bus on trotske that isn't how it works. Bus is purely scum voting scum.
"Bussing (as in "thrown under the...", not to be confused with busdriving) is when a mafia member backstabs a fellow mafia to get the trust of the villagers, usually by supporting (and possibly even leading) a lynch against his fellow mafia. "
Congrads! I was mainly watching that lynch because I didn't want to be swayed by mafia and as it turns out that was a good thing.
Zarepath, Mocsta, Spaghetticus, Zebezt were the suspisious ones in that lynch going purely off voting. Obviously Mocsta was scum and dead himself. But spag came in without much reasoning in his vote posts (he may have reasoned before but still doesn't look good and we need an explanation)
I lost Zarepath in the confusion so I don't know who he was. Zebezt went the easy way out much like spag did but without being in contention.
so atm I am going to find out why zarepath voted the way he did.
On January 17 2013 06:59 zarepath wrote: I am leaving work right now and won't be able to check this or vote during my commute, and will be cutting things too close for the deadline. I will explain my reasoning N2, but have to vote without explanation right now for a lack of time:
I have been thinking about the game in general. While I may have read all 40 pages if you don't think about the information you have then it is pointless and it takes a while to sort. I think I have a general idea of where everyone stands and how they act.
I am kinda on the edge about Zarepath. You have done a whole lot of work bringing up rb theory and associations but you haven't given your opinion on what you think the associations mean. (although wow you just posted more this is actually quite helpful for me especially being a replacement) It's like go town make mis-lynches for me muhaha style of play. It could be just you haven't gotten around to it though. Also you post lists and lists suck
Although we should not start list discussion as that is counter productive as well but I hated seeing a phase of lists like half way though the game.
Another think I would like to note that his day two play was very... minimal? Comparing activity between the two days is odd. For example he posted 1.5 pages on day one down to half a page for the night and day 2. With his largest post being purely defense. I am not sure if you suddenly had time issues I just found with more information you talking less was odd...
although I admit your defense of your vote was kinda ok but if you could answer these points it would be good.
Oh and that is another thing I forgot. Something is happening sunday(your Saturday probably) If I did the maths right the lynch is on that day at 10 I should be around to 8:30/9 I didn't bother thinking about it when I signed up as I thought lynch was 12.
Also something else might happen that day as well still talking to someone about arrangements but at that point it will be night so it won't matter so much.
On January 17 2013 15:56 zebezt wrote: Hell yes! this game is getting to me. I dreamt Jacob was lynched and he flipped town and everyone was pointing fingers at me.
This could still happen you realise...
Have you looked at second half of my original post?
It's dumb to be happy? I'm not saying we should sit back and relax. But in my eyes the next lynch is 100% clear.
It's sad for Jacob because he didnt get to play much, but Laguerta and mocsta set him up.
Evidence against Jacob
First there is Laguerta saying he is not gonna "no vote" and then he "no vote"s. LIE
Oh don’t feel bad, even if I get lynched in 2 days time am playing till the very end mark my words.
Yes he lied... I don’t even know if he remembered what he said. I would like to say it’s more likely for scum to keep promises because they make them in order to appear town. However he basically wasn’t in this game so I can’t and it sucks. But saying the next lynch is 100% clear? Honestly?
On January 17 2013 17:24 zebezt wrote: Second there is is Mocsta's voting behaviour. During day 1 he is super late to get on the Laguerta voting train. When that train is looking like it's going to derail, Mocsta gives it the final push by jumping ship and voting Mand. There is no reason for Mocsta to make this switch UNLESS HE IS PROTECTING HIS SCUM BUDDY. Later on Mocsta claims he is 100% sure that Laguerta is scum. Yet he does not vote for him. Instead voting for somebody else. Not once, but TWICE. This looks to me like Mocsta is distancing himself from Laguerta, knowing his lie is out. However he tries to distract the vote away from Laguerta.
Ok I was theorising about this, and as I said before I know there was a double mis-lynch happening on day one. By changing he puts suspicion on me when the lynch goes bad and he probably assumed he would survive day 2 with me dying putting him in good stead. I don’t know why his voting was so funny however. Maybe he wanted to join someone elses train so he wouldn’t look so bad when I went down? Maybe he thought he could get me day 3? Or maybe he did it because hey why not? Omni isn’t here so I wonder why the vote initially was on him. It could be he wanted to get omni and then me because at that point I was likely to get modkilled? I don’t have a clue the problem is you are seeing black and white, the situation is almost never black and white it is a dynamic of really evil colours that sometimes combine for the heck of it.
On January 17 2013 17:24 zebezt wrote:
Any comparison with Temil is useless. This is more than enough PROOF THAT JACOB IS SCUM.
Would like to point out the comparison with TemiL is in my favour... I already pointed out that as far as bad lurker scum go there are several differences in behaviour.
On January 17 2013 17:24 zebezt wrote: I therefore strongly suggest that if we have a roleblocker he RB's Jacob tonight.
Hold up something I just realised. La de da (I refuse to learn his name) wasn’t a bad player.
On January 16 2013 00:44 Stutters695 wrote: Laguerta was another smurf. Same rules for voting apply that did to bring/kush. Let's leave it at that until after the game
So he was actually a veteran, now why would a veteran play like this, the obvious first thought is to troll but he hardly did. Why bother signing up and joining a game to hardly troll and do nothing? Kush(the other smurf) on the other hand was a troll, his playstyle was completely designed around trolling.
Something that is in a lot of newbie games is you run into too scummy to be scum people, they are sometimes bad town sometimes scum. I think he may have been a player who wanted to try out a too scummy to be scum play style. But couldn’t do it on his main account due to being instantly lynched.
Now the thing is he would do this as scum or town no matter what role he got but at least that means his actions were completely contrived possibly lied directly and thus Null so to speak. The reason I think this is he has obviously played and would know that lying would get him into trouble. This would make all his actions Null, which is why I would like you to give me the chance to prove I am town without harkening back to his actions.
Either he or zare or both of them are scum. This is simple logical deduction from the actions and votes of day 2. Again for the cheap seats: scum would not have split their vote 3 ways and if you think that scum bussed Mocsta it means I am scum."
Also yes Spag is full of empty promises and isn't posting as much as usual (heard someone say that) I thought his reason for his last minute vote was down to "waking up to control the lynch" but why did you pick those two? Did you think they were both scummy? We need to work out if it makes sense that those two were his targets.
For example does both of them being scum make sense? Will look into this, however acid reminded me that I didn't have time to look at Zarapath.
His night filter is mainly rb analysis, day 2 action analysis, and theorys on how many people would be left. although, he did have one or two good posts on who we should be looking at so as long as a follow though happens and he uses this information to good use I am not so bothered. It's just every single one of these is perfect scum content because it is so easy to be correct and right. While they are things that need to be discussed it's concerning at the moment.
ebwop: acid reminded me indirectly that I forgot to finish my look at Zarapath.
Also something about acid that popped up. You constantly mentioned that you didn't vote for someone you made a case on. Now either you are town being open or scum trying to appear to be open knowing someone will realise that eventually. Just if I recall correctly you mentioned it more than once. Could be trying for town cred?
on a side note my internet is pretty bad right now, I drop from 1 bar to nothing to 2 so if I suddenly disappear don't panic. If it gets really bad I will just steal a Ethernet cable.
1) - Have a vote on someone and a reason why. If you sheep (sheep:// verb meaning to follow someone else's reasoning without contributing, not a spell of polymorph )
That was funnier than it should have been, although your night posts have been lacking. While his explanation of his vote switch was good it doesn't mean it isn't suspisious.
(3) - OmniEulogy is confirmed town. He has changed his meta from scummy to actual pro-town. This is a read from a more complex dialogue outside of the game, but put simply:
- he has played deliberately scummy in previous games in order to give himself room to work with when he actually rolls scum
- I warned him that while I have been avoiding him in game I had decided to tunnel him as I could no longer take the bullshit, along as communicating several reasons for why a better player would play to the best of their ability every game
- He improved his style when he did not need to. I was not in the game to tunnel him, and if he rolled scum he would have had three games worth of established scummy play to work with, all but guaranteeing him a scum victory if he rolled scum.
If he rolled scum he would be under zero pressure to change his style and we would be looking at a clusterfuck of WIFOM and OMGUS instead of the rational play he is demonstrating.
While this turned out to be true I think this might have been a scum slip, even with all the evidence town are normally far more careful with reads. For example with this evidence I would say most likely town and would think of the possibility of having improved his play to appear more town not remaining scummy to appear more town. (although I haven't seen him play before I don't think?)
Also in general Spags meta is way off... he is the only other australian and while he has given reasons for being less active you would have thought he would have at least chimed it (it's almost 1pm Australian time)
So in other words his meta is off, he isn't posting much (which is a separate issue from meta while being connected) and he isn't following though on his non LAL policy. A LAL policy is really easy for scum to talk about because it requires no evidence beside from lack of content.
Also he posted this
I want you there on day three because you are active, and if you are scum you will slip as a result. If you downgrade your activity I will shit on you for motivated lurking. It is clear that I want you to stop wasting time being a victim, and I am not the only person with these thoughts. You are not responsible for other people lurking, but you are responsible for hiding their posts with tirades of self-pitying crap.
Is seems he has taken up the mantle of motivated lurking.... after being so bold and aggressive against them has he realised he can't keep up?
Okay there have been some developments, seemingly a lot of them on me. I have limited time (two hours before I need to be at the bus-stop), so I'm going to quickly draw your attention to my position and the posts that support it. I will be gone for at least 9 hours, finishing just before midnight, meaning when I do get back my contribution will be limited due to sleep. Once I awaken, I'm hoping my mother has better internet than she used to as it was unstable last time I was there. I should definitely be back to posting full strength by the the last half of Day Two.
I assume you mean day three
Hmm, while possibly true this doesn't bode well. For starters you could be busy as scum or town and secondly it's mighty convenient.
I did see your post justifying your vote but this still doesn't explain why the night was so quiet and with you being so inactive on day three I sense a problem. I really need a response on why you were so inactive during the night. But apparently I won't get this for another 9 hours...
I'm still trying to comprehend your trotske case I might walk around a while and think about it.
FoS on Spaghetticus I would like some other opinions on him,
I feel that most of his posts so far have been only restating that he doesn't
HAHA Oh man I missed that before....
But yeah I agree I have been walking around trying to figure out why his case on trotske works and the key point is it doesn't.
Also like you pointed out It's based around confirming someone who is already highly likely town to be 100% town with one lynch. You have to provide evidence on why someone is scum not how useful the flip would be. Sometimes yes if two people equally scummy you have to take that into account but even with that unless Trotske is scum the flip is useless practically.
While this can change if you respond amazingly or bring up a case that is better I will follow suit.
Well admittedly it could make sense. But it is such a stretch of the imagination. Now while I am the master of finding scum though stretch of the imagination cases this goes into the realm of voodoo.
There were probably three scum at the start and potentially an sk? I remember playing a game with this set up 3 scum 1 sk. The thing is Sk damages both town and scum so it's not really an advantage I don't think.
so it would probably be 5-2 or 4-2-1 or 5-1-1 (if order of most likely)
On January 17 2013 10:34 Spaghetticus wrote: Oh wow... NICE! While there was no way I was voting for Mocsta day two, I can step back and admit when I'm wrong. This worked out well. Hitting the Godfather first is also a biggy, as a Godfather would normally be the one playing for end-game.
...
I'm going to go and gorge on lasagna and cider to celebrate, this is a big win peops!
He's going to eat to celebrate something that happened in mafia? I consider this another disproportionate response of a post.
Just for the record I once attempted a backflip on a unicycle in celebration of something that happened in mafia. Although all your other points seem to make sense but this one.
On January 18 2013 22:58 zarepath wrote:
This post (mine, here) does not even attempt to go into Spag's endorsement of Mocsta's case on me, or his voting behavior, or lack of cases on who the other 2 scum are. (Really, if he were actually going after scum, he would ASSUME I were scum, because if he supposedly knows he's not scum, then he has to assume that I was backing Mocsta up by voting for Trotske. Where is Spag's case on me? Shouldn't I be the most obvious scum to him if he's NOT scum? NO, instead he has a convoluted case which main goal is to confirm someone town.) I post this now because I think people are overlooking the importance of analyzing his interactions with the one person we KNOW to have been scum.
See if he isn't scum then yes you would be obvious but even if he is scum the fact he didn't make a case on you is still unusual. Because if he was scum he would still want a case on you as you are apparently an easy townie to make a case on. My theory would be that you were both scum and he was trying to not draw attention to you.
Just for the record I once attempted a backflip on a unicycle in celebration of something that happened in mafia. Although all your other points seem to make sense but this one.
Fyi it didn't go well. Also it's nearing 1:30 am Australian time and Spag is nowhere to be seen. I can only assume he will "sleep until 12pm" again then go to the gym and try to make a last ditch case in attempt to confuse people.
On January 19 2013 07:18 zebezt wrote: Lol.. I almost miss Mocsta. It's kinda dead in here. Partly my own fault. Too damn busy. Been reading spag's filter. He doesnt say much useful stuff. He did encourage people to look into a case on Mocsta though. Slightly positive. On the whole he feels scummy to me though. For someone that said he was gonna contribute a lot, he hasn't really made that happen yet. Tomorrow i'll probably write an overview of my case against Jacob.
Hey first things first is that tomorrow game time or tomorrow irl time.
On January 19 2013 01:42 zarepath wrote:
The point is that if I were Spag and I knew I weren't scum, I would be looking very closely at Zarepath because he is the only person who voted with Mocsta that I wouldn't have confirmed as town.
I can understand why people are suspicious of me, because I voted with Mocsta. That on its own isn't enough reason for me to be scum, but I can totally understand why it would be worthy of looking through my filter and coming up with a case. I can ESPECIALLY understand why it would be worthy of doing if Spag were town -- he would think it very likely for me to be scum.
However, he did NOT do that -- that draws attention to the idea that another scum must have voted with Mocsta, and he apparently isn't very confident that I am scum. Because I am town, I am highly suspicious of the other person to have voted with Mocsta, so I looked through his filter and his interactions with Mocsta, and it all builds together (along with his votes and his cases) to a strong case of Spag being scum.
The point isn't that we're both scum -- it's that we're both very much worth looking into if you're LOOKING for scum. I submit that Spag is not looking for scum, and that, having now looked, I very much think him to be scum.
This had me in circles for a little but to be honest this looks like you are trying to gain town cred for him not looking into you. If you were really that easy to do it wouldn't scum think oh hey this guy is easy to get a lynch on lets make a case on him. I am saying the fact he was convoluted indicates that he might be trying to protect a scum buddy and going for a harder to lynch person due to his buddy being easy to lynch. This is assuming he is scum.
This is JSL's only post I could find that has any real input into who could be scum. I'm not sure if this makes him scummy or just a lazy town but I do find it odd that laguerta and JSL playing from the same role PM seem to be playing the same style.
Tbh it's kinda how I play, I have been questioning people such as acid zar and zeb and trying to get information this way. The problem is it is very dead in here for the most part and I work best in active discussion. The fact I don't say someone is scum straight up doesn't mean I am not trying to work out who is scum. (you can refer to my previous games if you want)
Zarepath - Hide Spoiler -
Does this feel like a bus to anyone else? It seems like we are pretty set up on killing spag today so why not jump on the bus and try for the late game.
Not sure if I mentioned it but yes I was getting the feeling it could be a bus.
zebezt - Hide Spoiler - I really like how he made a case on mocsta pretty early, My only problem is he makes a case on jacob based on a case against lagurata who was practically trolling instead of voting for mocsta. I would really like some more input on him so I can see other points of views on him.
To add to this not only is he making a case based on a troll (well not actually a troll as I pointed out probably an experiment) But he kinda went hard on the easy lynch. Town I imagine would be much more cautious, if you look at his early play style he seems timid and then suddenly he is like oh well lynch Lagurata game over gg.
I have something to say about zezbet after he tells me when his case on me is coming however. He still hasn't voted for anyone. The fact he was so sure I was scum and didn't vote indicates he was waiting on a bandwagon. Also delaying my case like this means he is likely buying time to not say much.
On January 19 2013 16:34 zebezt wrote: My case on JacobStrangelove
It seems a lot of people can't get with a case unless it's phrased as a long megapost with lots of quotes. POINT 1: THE LIE: Laguerta says he is not gonna "no lynch" vote but then ends up doing exactly that. People now make excuses for it saying it was just a troll. What do we know? It was a smurf. Wether it was a good or bad player is unknown. We do know there weren't many posts by Laguerta, the quality sucked and it was not funny. Would a troll play like this? If you made a smurf just for trolling wouldn't you actually want to troll? Instead of going out of your way to look suspicious and then get voted off day 1 (this almost happened). That seems to make no sense to me. Was Laguerta simply a bad townie and forgot what he said? If you say something because you actually belief it you arent gonna forget it, because you'll automatically do it right.
I think the lie still stands as strong evidence
Ok first off I already went over this.
On January 17 2013 21:31 JacobStrangelove wrote: Hold up something I just realised. La de da (I refuse to learn his name) wasn’t a bad player.
On January 16 2013 00:44 Stutters695 wrote: Laguerta was another smurf. Same rules for voting apply that did to bring/kush. Let's leave it at that until after the game
So he was actually a veteran, now why would a veteran play like this, the obvious first thought is to troll but he hardly did. Why bother signing up and joining a game to hardly troll and do nothing? Kush(the other smurf) on the other hand was a troll, his playstyle was completely designed around trolling.
Something that is in a lot of newbie games is you run into too scummy to be scum people, they are sometimes bad town sometimes scum. I think he may have been a player who wanted to try out a too scummy to be scum play style. But couldn’t do it on his main account due to being instantly lynched.
Now the thing is he would do this as scum or town no matter what role he got but at least that means his actions were completely contrived possibly lied directly and thus Null so to speak. The reason I think this is he has obviously played and would know that lying would get him into trouble. This would make all his actions Null, which is why I would like you to give me the chance to prove I am town without harkening back to his actions.
As a recap your case on me with strong evidence is on someone who was most likely not trolling (as you pointed out not funny) But who I pointed out was likely trying a too scummy to be scum playstyle. This would make him try to be scummy as town or mafia.
Point two.
I already went over that I have seen this happen before, assuming he survived it would have given him town cred when I flipped green because why would mafia vote switch like that. It was praised as one of the greatest moves there was so why not try it? If it worked he would have been set up for the whole game.
Point three
Mocca was acting super weird. His whole freakout into victimization and stuff along with making a case on a "solid" town doesn't make much sense. By saying I am 100% scum he could have noticed that town wasn't completely on board he could have been trying to get another lynch going (that would have been harder to get late game) (troske/omni) thus lynching me day three because it was easy. This however ended up revealing him as scum. (Also at this point it was possible lagu was getting mod killed, maybe he realised this and wanted to lynch someone else?) I am not entirely sure.
Point four.
Ok so I vote no lynch. How is this scummy as scum I could do one of two things. I could bus Mocca and gain town cred. Or I could vote Trotske and save mocca. Now you say it wasn't needed but while watching lynch proceedings it was pretty obvious Shz was going to vote switch. For reference.
On January 17 2013 08:52 shz wrote: @all: Did your opinions about Jacob change? Do you think he is worth keeping around for a while?
I kinda feel that he at least contributed somewhat, though the surprise that the lynch deadline is so soon is a bit strange, it is posted with every votecount, and they were already a few of them before he started.
On January 17 2013 08:50 Mocsta wrote: Snoan just.remeber what i said. If its me
ur playing a fine town game post night1 keep it up.
I hope u are.the ones that leads thenpressure on la guerta i think ur opinion isnthe least.biased.
Town needs i
EBWOP
Sn0_Man.
Your doing great.. Trust in yourself.. You can make the right decisions.
What are you doing? How victimized can someone post.
So if I was mafia (yeah I hate using these arguments but it works in reply) voting would give me the advantage both ways. And before in my initial post I said I thought the trotske case was well layed out. I could have voted for him no problems.
Point five. Well this is subjective... like you said
It seems a lot of people can't get with a case unless it's phrased as a long megapost with lots of quotes.
I made a case on the person I think is most likely mafia and I am prodding the other two people I think are most likely mafia (you and Zara)
The thing I don't get is you brought up several points I answered before. Did you even read my response? In the first point you still think lagu was a troll when I already mentioned that is a lot of work to not troll for.
Also what of the spag case? This is literally all you say?
On January 19 2013 07:18 zebezt wrote: Lol.. I almost miss Mocsta. It's kinda dead in here. Partly my own fault. Too damn busy. Been reading spag's filter. He doesnt say much useful stuff. He did encourage people to look into a case on Mocsta though. Slightly positive. On the whole he feels scummy to me though. For someone that said he was gonna contribute a lot, he hasn't really made that happen yet. Tomorrow i'll probably write an overview of my case against Jacob.
On a side note he hasn't been in the thread for at least 24 hours?
On January 19 2013 18:07 zebezt wrote: You answered most of it before, but they were crappy answers.
A too scummy to be scum playstyle. Really?? As town? This makes no sense.
I'll comment on the rest later
It. makes. sense. because. he. was. a. smurf. You still haven't read my post so of course my answers are "bad" Think of why a vet would make a smurf. To troll or try something out. If you are coming into a game to try something out it doesn't matter what role you get. He might have wanted to just survive as town because he was "too scummy to be scum".
Looks like spag exploded onto the thread. But first Zeb
On January 19 2013 21:40 zebezt wrote: The whole concept of too scummy to be scum makes no sense. Even if you don't get voted out immediately, you will eventually.
Your point 3 defense is basically that you don't know. How is that a defense?
Your point 4 defense was that it was clear shz was going to switch because of some comments he made. That's hardly a guarantee. Many people say accusing things about others, but these don't mean they will switch. Town should vote. You sound like you are very experienced. You should be able to read the cases and decide wether or not they should be good. Refusing to vote = scummy
Eventually maybe, but if there are more scummy people on the table no. He is a smurf remember, he may have been playing a normal mafia this was a throw away game for him do you think for two seconds he cared about this game?
How about because I'm not a freaking mind reader? I was implying wifom in more than many words.
Refusing to vote does = scummy in normal situations. But going into a thread, discovering lynch is on one hour and not having the time to work out who is town or not isn't. You are twisting the situation, If I had voted troske you would have gone totally scum he walks into the thread and votes trotske. If I had Voted Mocca you could have screamed bus.
On a side note it could take ages to though spags stuff....
Well I have gone though it but it will take a while to process. One major thing I am not buying though that you seemed to phase over is that you "confirmed shz town" then wanted a lynch troske to "confirm him town" This doesn't make sense at all. If there was someone who you weren't sure off at best you could have lynched someone "related to him" to maybe gain the most information possible but even then it would be a wifom move. You seemed to want to lynch for information not for actually lynching scum.
Hurm..... there is a lot of wifom especially around mafia behavior. While I admit you had meta experience you did seem pretty sure. Also there is plenty of scum motive for protecting a townie. It's called budding. Where you suck up to a town and use their arguments and ideas for your own agenda.
Now here is the interesting part you were completely right BUT why would he change a scummy meta all of a sudden. I assume you mean he was being scummy to win holistically but from the point of view of someone that doesn't know his alignment how did you explain him suddenly stopping all of a sudden? If he is playing scummy as town then he would play scummy as town this game. Now he obviously did make a meta change to try and win a town game (not sure of results of other games) but I would assume a change in his town meta from being scummy would have him as scum as he was trying too hard to compensate while having the back up plan of his meta.
That said that is kinda a past thing the main point I want answered is the one I asked in my last post. Also I am kinda glad you are here, was getting lonely.
My reasons for suspecting/voting Trotske are not only that he confirms you as 100% town, though I am someone who factors in such things into his initial estimate of a person. I believe JSL stated it should only be a tie-breaker, this is very conservative and IMHO dead wrong.
Wait what do I believe? This isn't clear
On a side note the guy got back to me so I will be going out tomorrow but I should be at lynch up till 8-9 my time lynch is at 10. Not sure what time I will be getting back though.
I woke up for this? Honestly while Zarepath does appear scummy spag still didn't answer the one main question I asked him. If he could have answered that I might have changed votes but it's obvious he couldn't. So I'm going back to bed.
I agree with your first point acid but obviously not your second one.
But let me give a summary on why Zarapath is most likely scum.
Well first up there is the obvious voting for troske and not mocca. Now town are allowed to be confused however I think both other scum would have wanted in on a troske lynch. Considering how close it was till the end and the fact neither Zebet or I voted for a “proper lynch” that would be a huge risk to take as scum as acid says for not much benefit.
Secondly his night posts. They are all easy town cred posts. Posting lists of what happened without putting out content to go with them. Talking about Rb-ing ect while this does need to be talked about just having that as your content is not a town thing to do it’s a gain town cred thing to do.
His timing of his “bus” on Spag. Acid Myself and Shz all agreed it looked like a bus. That is three (or two depending on your perspective) town all thinking. “man that looks like a bus case” and why? I think spag actually answered that question in his attempt to survive.(wifom alert) The case was wind, it appears he was scraping the bowl to try and come up with some original thought so he could appear more town. (interesting to note that spag had the most to say about zara’s case being wrong I remember on time as scum I made a 2000-3000 word case on my scum buddy because it was the easiest thing to do)
Also a wifom post from spag
(4) - Zarepath. He's active(ish) and scummy as hell. His lists are semi helpful, but they are probably his biggest contribution other than getting me mislynched with really fucking bad rhetoric. I don't blame JSL for attacking Zarepath, but I feel as though his attacks have been half-hearted and not at all real. I was actually leaving Zare alone believing that JSL was going to post a solid case, but this never eventualised, so in some way it has worked as a protection...
At this point he knows he is going to flip scum so what does he do? He calls the other person most people think is scum scum. Now why would he do this? You would think he would want to set up his partner for success so it’s possible he called him scum to get him to look town. (although this is very wifom as he could have called town scum to wifom us into lynching him)
Now I would like to point out that wifom isn’t all bad, there is a reason these arguments exist saying its wifom its bad isn’t good play. You need to analyse it and decide for yourself which is more likely.
He gave us this will probably expecting to be lynched though so reading into it too much could just confuse us. Personally I think scum is between Zara and Zeb I have already mentioned this. (if acid is scum then hats off to you) Shz nailed the vote on scum and trokse I find unlikely due to what acid said. Now I will have to look into the others more at some point but....
If we have a detective, they will have investigated 2 people already, and 3 by the end of N3. I am wondering whether it would be in town's best interests for a full role claim at the very end of N3 or the very beginning of day 4. We'll be missing our DT's reads if we let him remain silent tonight and he gets killed.
Playing league(yeah hate me) but just wanted to point out the solution to this is to have him drop reads a minute before lynch and then if he lives the other read after.
Well I think this is the second/third? time zebezt seems to have voted strangely.
so atm I am going to find out why zebezt voted the way he did.
....
Ok it seems like he voted for snowman right after mocca does and then he leaves it there for the entire day. Even when snow goes out of contention. Second day he votes me then leaves the thread to only re-enter after two entirely different people got lynched/almost lynched which he wasn't a part off.. third day he votes me again, and seems super reluctant to vote spag. He seemed to wait till after spags last ditch attempt to stay alive was over before voting for him.
What screams scum about me over zara? You have said a lot of things about me but I have refuted them. Make a new case based on my filter and take off the rose colored glasses. Think about why I would do something as town, and why I would do it as scum. Read my past games if you have to.... your recent cases on me have just been saying I think jsl is scummier.
Ok I was out unicycling so I had around 80 minutes of traveling time thinking about this. Now assuming a sk has done nothing all game is inferior logic....
Just assume there is an Sk. The most likely set up is two mafia. Now the Sk doesn't want to give himself away but as soon as two mafia die the first thing he would do is start killing people.
See you are starting with the pretext of three mafia plus possible sk (which I find interesting in the fact you seem to know there are three mafia?) But it would probably be 2 mafia one sk. Now either you tunneled onto me because I am the easiest mislynch or you didn't think about it properly.
In other words I think with doc being confirmed it is either a Mafia Zara or an Sk, Zeb. Because sk would turn up green to cop checks if he chose that ability.
Now the reason I started to think about that was I realised despite having a lot against zeb I couldn't link him to mafia. (and initially I thought cop made him town) But what was interesting how he practically avoided every lynch. Without being part of mafia he wouldn't be saving or bandwagoning and without being town he wouldn't legitimately care.
If shz is magically mafia I might kill myself.
Now what is also interesting is something I found is zebs filter, while it is before the game starts it proves he would have thought about the win conditions for sk.
On January 09 2013 20:34 zebezt wrote: How unfair, there is no coach for the person with the hardest role.
On January 12 2013 04:55 zebezt wrote: Yeah, I thought about SK kill conditions alot as well too. Seems very hard. A last night with 4 people including a vigilante also could lead to a winning scenario.
So he wouldn't have gone crazy killing people early on.
Also would like to point out you haven't responded to my case on you. While being afk for most of the day is convenient it's not exactly helpful.
In the middle of my reply but I wanted to clear something up real quick.
First off I knew it was soon. Like 3 hours or so I didn’t think it was soon as in 1 hour. You are twisting the word soon in this case considering days are 48 hours long I think I am pretty alright in saying what I thought was going to be 2-3 hours soon.
Yeah but I obviously don't want to die, and considering the possibility of sk there is a reason I don't want town wasting a lynch on me. You could use the same logic the other way around. Why are we ignoring sk? If zara and I flip town we lose the game. Ignoring the possibility is just stupid. Why doesn't zara mind getting lynched if he is town? He doesn't seem to think there is an sk so him dying to lynch me shouldn't be a problem. ......... First off I knew it was soon. Like 3 hours or so I didn’t think it was soon as in 1 hour. You are twisting the word soon in this case considering days are 48 hours long I think I am pretty alright in saying what I thought was going to be 2-3 hours soon.
I have already gone though many times about the no vote, think about it from both angles. No voting as mafia gets nothing. I already was thinking trotske was scum based off the post from acid if I was mafia I could have voted for him and got him lynched.
Not to bring up the dead but acid said this in regards to trotske.
I don't think I need to explain how a 4-3 ratio is stupidly more advantageous to scum than *maybe* getting a bit of town cred.
Why would I do that to not gain any cred?
If we look at associations with Spag, we see that Spag said literally NOTHING about Laguerta, and in fact never suspected him of lurking or anything.
Was a lurking? I think I was one of the only people in discussion most of the time.
When Mocsta flips Godfather, his first response isn't to investigate Spag's reason for switching his vote, but to go after ME for my voting with Mocsta (which is fine; it deserved explanation, but he went after me first, and not after Spag.)
Your post explaining why you voted the way you did looked far worse than spags. He turned out to just be amazing with words. But he seemed at the time to give an explanation I couldn’t refute at least not immediately.
When it's clear that Spag will be lynched, Jacob FoSes him for being a lurker (when Spag had clearly stated he wouldn't be around for a bit), and leaves his vote parked there when it's clear nothing will prevent a Spag lynch.
But most of Jacob's energy that day was spent trying to poke holes in my case on Spag and trying to suggest that I am scummy or involved in a bus.
When Jacob calls me out for busing, his arguments are that Acid and Shz ALSO thought it was a bus, that my lists were scummy, and that my arguments against Spag were timed scummily and made of wind. Note that he's hiding behind two townies for this, ignores the fact that I was the very first person to vote for Spag, and that my arguments were rigorous and, most of all, correct.
I don’t remember it being clear he was going to be lynched I was one of the first people to go at him properly if I recall correctly. Can you link to me posting holes in your case all day? Yes I am not going to sit down and ignore everyone else, if I remember I was going after you and zeb when it got to the point where spag hadn’t been in the thread for like a year. What did you want me to do sit around and wait for lynch? (wait just saw shz post you actually voted for him first? I thought I was the first (apart from trotske) to vote for him.)
So I am hiding behind two townies and spag... I mentioned that spag might have given away that you were scum by the fact your case was the easiest to refute.
On the night of the Spag lynch, Jacob really goes after myself and Zebezt, and has been after me all game without a single in-depth post of analysis. If he were really convinced I were scum, you'd think he'd do some actual investigation.
I don’t do single in depth often. You should know this if you took the time to read my previous games. I assume everyone has payed attention to my previous posts and remember the things I said about people being scummy. I am in depth but its spread over several pages as I work it all out.
And if he is so certain that I am scum, why does he even both suspecting zebezt near the end of the night? The consensus is that there's only one scum left, so if I'm scum, why is he suspecting other people as well? It's not that you can't suspect multiple people, but he's pretty dead-set on me from what I can tell.
I am fairly certain you are scum yes. But if I am wrong I need to find out. Which is why I have been going at zeb along side you. You are basically saying I can’t not know what is going on which is ridiculous.
When zebezt suggests that our RB should RB JAcob, what's Jacob's pro-town response? "No, dont' waste your RB, you should put it on a REAL scum read, like X, Y, or Z!" No, instead, it's "heh, sure thing." Town would not be satisfied with knowing that a night action is being wasted on them.
To be honest I was pretty frustrated by this point. It was the wrong thing to do though.
Mocsta's last-minute switch onto Mandalor saved Laguerta (and he was one of the later people to go for Laguerta, probably after scum coach suggested bus for Laguerta's crazy bad play) .
You are reading my filter but you obviously missed my replies to zeb, He could have thought oh Laguerta would be an easy kill later let’s kill the harder to lynch mandalor.
Mocsta's case on OE assumed Laguerta as scum, but suggested a lynch on OE first (which would potentially then clear Laguerta) Mocsta's case on Trotske, when his OE case doesn't pick up, ALSO argues that Trotske is over-protective of Laguerta and that there must be a relationship there.
Zebezt brought up the point that Mocsta stated he was 100% sure Laguerta was scum but still wouldn't vote for him -- only Mafia know 100% sure about anybody's alignment. Mocsta was constantly suggesting that Laguerta was scum but never pushing for Laguerta to be lynched; in fact, he did all he could to avoid it. In fact, whenever he argued Laguerta was scummy, he did it in the same breath as saying that that was evidence for someone else to be lynched. When it appears Mocsta may be going down, he tells Sno_Man that town will need him to "pressure on laguerta." This seems like bait to me, something he hoped we would pick up once Mocsta flips scum -- "He wanted us to pressure Laguerta! Hah! Yeah right!"
This part is so wifom, you have to realise at this point he knew he was going down. Linking Trotske to Laguerta what does this give him? Saying to pressure me when he was going to flip scum is very wifom it could go both ways. Also using someone that looks scummy and likely to get mod killed is a good tool for making cases on other people. At that point in the game I was virtually mod killed. Why would he want to kill me when he could kill someone else and likely have me out of the game as well?
I would like to point out Zara hasn't even responded to the arguments against him? Why do this? Can't he answer the questions?
So if I think about the possibility of an Sk I should wait till after lynch to mention it? Sounds like a perfect plan if I wanted to confuse people. Also if I die I want people to know that they should think about the next lynch carefully.
Because I have information you don’t. First off I guess this is the point I claim rb’er... now I want you to follow this post with a clear head.
First mocca was rb’ed night one and he claimed he was rb’ed probably in order to gain town cred, secondly I rb’ed spag which was why I focused on Zara so much (thinking I might get lucky with no kills from mafia who knows maybe I did and the sk killed that night)
Next I rb’ed Zeb but there was still a kill. So I thought I was wrong but decided not to show I had information and just push zara over him.
Last thing I did was role block zara and this was when everything was revealed. You may wonder why I went spastic about an sk. Zara lied about being rb’ed probably because he assumed I was it and a kill still went though.
Now you might think how can we confirm this? Well let me live the day and I will role block whoever you want me to. Assuming we kill either zara or zebzet there can only be one night kill. (unless sk is shz and I have just been on the wrong trail the entire time) But if that happens we can get to it when it does.
Also you might think I am mafia roleblocker but why has nobody claimed rb the entire thread? (apart from mocca) Because I hit scum everytime. There is no point for mafia to rb their own people. Apart from if they try to gain town cred from it and doing that every night is pointless.
Also I was soft claiming rb’er... “heh sure thing” was me saying sure I’ll rb myself you morons.
Now you probably don’t believe me but if you don’t think there is an sk and a mafia then there is no problem letting me live another night as it would be obvious who is scum. There is no way I would get out of it if one of these two flips town. If one of them does flip town, I probably won’t even argue just accept my fate.
Now you might think that 3 scum one sk is unlikely, but we have at least three power roles in town. We have a vig, a cop, and a rb’er. I have played in a game that was three mafia one sk before I know it happens.
Because I am not a jail keeper I am a role blocker...
You're the only one around here with hair. For some reason this means you're a Roleblocker. (once at/every) night you can roleblock someone and it will prevent them from using any of their night actions. You win when all the mafia have been killed. Your target will be aware that they were roleblocked, but nothing beyond that.
but no it wouldn't confirm you as town, because if I was rb'er and zeb was confirmed due to cop then that would make shz scum. Also you would be unsure as to who I rb'ed so the information with that would lead to your lynch.
Look you have 100% permission to lynch me if zara flips town but when I flip town you are screwed. Think about it. If Zara flips town my entire argument is based off him not flipping town and thus I am scum 100%. If I flip town then who are you going to lynch?
If you are town you can 100% hit scum by lynching zara then me. If you lynch me then you can't be sure.
I could have claimed right away but I had to go over why zarapath lied and consider everything. Also I didn't want to get Nk'ed tonight so that is why I waited until I was voted for and likely to die anyway.
Well obviously you two are against me but to the town considering there is no way I can survive day 5 if zara is town we should vote for him. You can just lynch me afterwards if I am lying. It's the only logical thing to do. This way eliminates all possibility's for mistakes.
Hey I went to bed for most of that, the main point was not wanting to get night killed.
4 scum would be ridiculously overpowered. The only way I see this is if there were a mason pair. (which aren't in this game type) 3 scum one sk however.... So like you said there is no point for me to just drag this out.
Also killing me as your biggest opponent would bring suspicion. Acid died as someone who was on my side for the most part. (which only brings wifom suspicion at best) Snow also died (someone who I think was on my side) Why does everyone who agrees with me die? I might have done it once for wifom cred but honestly...
4 scum can concentrate votes 3 scum and 1 sk can't.
How would you have gotten killed during the night if you were RB? If your story is true you'd have me and zare as scum/SK. After lynching one of us, there would only be 1 left for you to RB so you wouldnt die during night. I'm sorry your argument makes no sense.
Oh that does make sense. Didn't think of that....
In that case we should 100% lynch zara because then I can just roleblock the other scum. If that doesn't happen you can just lynch me. If I was buying for time does it matter? It's still safer for town to lynch zara first and you know it.
I'm asking you showing that you are scum. (although it would make sense from a town perspective as well though) also trying to shut me up by saying it's a waste of time is poor play. Although it's got to the point where we both know what the other person is and it's down to you say I'm scum I say your scum it seems. I just hope the town make the right choice. ie; trotske and shz.
On January 22 2013 18:59 shz wrote: One question for zebe, zare, and Trotske: If Jacob is lying and not RB, why would Mocsta lie about being RB'd on N1? Mocsta could not have known that there isn't a RB. If there isn't a roleblocker, Mocsta is fine, but if there is a RB and that RB did not roleblock Mocsta, he would have been called out for it. And town should not lie about being RB'd.
This is the one thing that I'm very concerned about.
Easy peasy Mocsta knows there is no scum RB, or if there is one, he could tell em not to use their power. So if someone else claims a RB, then it seems that there is a town and a scum RB.
The only thing that makes sense if there isn't a scum RB. What it really looks like. For a scum RB not to use their power is just dumb just to do that little claim.
So, in your opinion, it is more likely that Jacob is lying, than that Mocsta was not?
Exactly I pointed out there was no rb claims in the entire thread apart from mocca. if there was scum rb'er he would have used it on someone..... But mocca could gain cred if he knew there was no scum rb'er and obviously a town one. We can't both be lying that wouldn't make sense.
All of a sudden? I had suspicions about him for ages but I put them aside in favour of zara. The fact I rb'ed both of them on separate occasions with still a nk led me to believe that zara was mafia and zeb was sk. Scum is a universal word for both.
as sk you want to start killing later on. I imagine the last two days the sk was trying to kill but I role blocked him and mafia at separate times leaving only one nk.
Wat. Well if there was "not likely" a scum roleblocker what does that make me? "Likely" a town Roleblocker. Besides I will get lynched tomorrow anyway if I was lying.
Just dense is seems, forgive me for not being able to see myself from a perspective I wouldn't have. Almost ironic coming from you. I thought you were an idiot until recently.
But when zara flips scum I can then confirm myself via night actions. If I am town this means 100% win chance. If I am scum it still means 100% win chance for town.
-_- 4 scum would be completely imbalanced. Besides you can just lynch me if I don't rb someone. So not only do there have to be 4 scum but me not being rb'er for your theory to make sense it;s a stretch. and if I am not rb'er you find out in the night.
I am not trying to confuse you... I don't see what part of the logic doesn't make sense. I want to see what trotske thinks about it. Zebezt is saying there is more likely hood that there is 4 scum as a mafia team. Than 3 scum one sk I have never seen a 4 scum mafia team ever in a 13 player game. I actually played in a game with 3 mafia one sk... I am assuming it's c9 set up.
It comes down to what do you think is safer and more likely. It's less likely there is 4 mafia ergo If I was lying you could lynch me day 5. It's not likely what zebezt is saying is true so when I flip town your screwed. If you do vote me you are screwed because town can't win vs sk and mafia. it would be 1-1-2
If there were 4 mafia (unlikely) then it would be 2-3 and we lose this lynch with nk which I the rb'er can't stop...
On January 22 2013 20:53 JacobStrangelove wrote: I am not trying to confuse you... I don't see what part of the logic doesn't make sense. I want to see what trotske thinks about it. Zebezt is saying there is more likely hood that there is 4 scum as a mafia team.
I played a 4 scum 13 person Mafia once, but we had no Godfather or any other special powers on the Mafia team.
I am saying it's impossible to have 4 mafia and I know this because I am not mafia... actually if there were four mafia then shz and zara would have to be mafia. (and you would be town) I don't think this is the case in fact I almost know it isn't.
There isn't any point arguing with you though because I know you are sk. If trotske was to come in here or shz was to ask a question then yes. But what we are basically doing is saying each other is scum repeated times it's pointless.
Oh that was zarepath I thought that was you. (you guys need different names) But no I would have asked for a link to the game out of curiosity. (then discovering no power roles)
I am not playing my last hours like spag or mocca. For one I gave you at least 24 hours to think about what I was saying.
You are saying lynch me then Z but if you lynch me then the sk plus mafia win the game. Because you are the only one that would know if there were 4 scum then the obvious lynch would be zara first then me. Because this order proves if zeb is sk or not and proves if I am scum or not.
I lied about my role early on because it was unlikely I would be a nk and I could be useful to town. Later on it was because if I came out it would be a night kill but then realised that unless shz was scum it wouldn't because I could role block zeb after zara dies.
Why not Rb zebzet? I rb'ed you did you want me to rb shz or trotske?
I am proving my innocence via set up theory. But this only works if zara gets lynched. I can't convince you two that I an innocence because you are both mafia/sk. I already pointed out why delaying is pointless..... but you obviously don't get it (or you get it all to well) due to being mafia.
Look shz if you are town then you know it's either me lying or them lying. If I am lying then you know to lynch me day 5 as since you know your alignment I must be scum.
If you do lynch me today to find out I didn't lie you are going to get so much hate from the obs thread and lose the game, just saying.
Look if you don't get this I am talking to a wall. trotske still isn't here so i will sleep while I can and wake up early to be able to discuss any questions he might have.
On January 22 2013 23:08 Trotske wrote: Just got here I was catching up How about you explain to me again why you are the worse lynch. Why do you think there is an SK? there has been no evidence of an extra NK since D1 and the vigi died.
Did you read what I said? With the way the role blocks worked out I would have prevented mafia or sk from killing someone for a few days and sk doesn't want to kill anyone early on to give themselves away immediately without knowing who scum are.
I am the worst lynch because if you lynch me first there is uncertainty due to the sk and mafia. But if Zara was to flip town then you could just kill me and be over with the game in certainty.
See if I am lying you get to lynch me anyway. If they are lying scum wins. There is no point for me to hold onto the game needlessly as town. This is all in the conversation that just took place. Read it carefully.
Nope still not in bed, to answer your question about why rb zezbet. For the record you are trying to say night 2 when it is night 3. Remember my night 2 is your night three. I already rb spag and he died by this point. It was down to you and zeb and I thought I could clear zeb with a rb.
IF I AM TRYING TO BLUFF MY WAY OUT OF A LYNCH THEN WHY AM I MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO LIVE DAY 5!
You read him town due to him having the sk power.
What is wrong with logic and you guys! if there is no reason for me to hang on then why would I do it? If you can confirm me scum 100% day 5 then why not do it. You could even shorten the day to 25 hours if you wanted (request the mod too)
When I flip town we are screwed... you don't understand, there is no way I can win as scum none. I die today or I die tommorow. If I am scum the game is over for me no matter what.
Well to be honest I am relieved. Not because I am scum although you should lynch me first but because I realised what happened. When I flip town I want you to lynch shz.
The explanation.
Yes I fake claimed. I was just a desperate town trying to survive and lynch the one person I thought was scum. It’s almost ironic, the one argument that I didn’t believe was the one argument that made the most sense. Apart from having 4 nights (I really hoped nobody would notice that) the case was solid logically. I mean of course it didn’t appear that way to zeb and zara because they were both town I claimed I rb’ed. But is should have been to shz. (Which is why when I die lynch him) Trotske is confirmed doc but I will just put it down to being a newbie game. (Honestly if anybody can legitimately tell me why it was more logical to lynch me first go right ahead) but I guess the game is mostly about emotion though.
I can die happy though, no more need to argue as there is no more uncertainty. Just remember this post after lynch.
Obviously I was not the worst town player in the world although I wouldn’t put it past me to pull a stunt like that as town at is would probably reveal scum due to reactions. (And as town I am mildly narcissistic) Apart from the obvious wrong nk on snow and the 4 nights part (lol I can’t believe that took so long to pick up on) was there anything else I did wrong?
At the end I was playing almost purely for fun. While town obviously got the right person they didn’t seem to be thinking about it which was odd.
There isn’t much of a mafia thread as we moved to skype but the reasoning kinda went down like Gimli says.
Thanks, I thought about the situation and realised it was impossible and never in a million years would work. But hey it could have been a million years so...
Haha, I used to but as town I don't need to, it's always obvious at mylo/lylo so as long as I am town enough to not get lynched and don't put the effort in to get night killed it's fine. (may not be exactly true)
Hah yeah 2 out of three scum replaced while normally an advantage. When it was two people mostly trolling... Although it was kinda off set by omni mod kill still very hard.
Lol tbh I feel bad for Mocsta (calling him mocca was a soft town claim cause I don't know his name well ^^) He gets into a game as scum with two smurfs.
It is an advantage in a way but it meant I wasn't able to set up a late game. If mocca hadn't slipped with that one major case we would have been set but it made me so scummy him not voting me twice. Although me being an easy mislynch later is still a valid reason in some respects.
I find it amusing that there was a point everyone was calling zeb scum or bad town considering at that point he was the only one of the right track. I think the main problem was you didn't argue the point in "the right way" or something.
Also no problem replacing in! My man DP hooked me up (and spag messaged me on skype as well) Honestly if there was anybody in the thread that realised I knew both the scum coach and someone who was in the game I would have been screwed.
Well it was kinda a toss up, If I role blocked and spag died then the cop would know the last mafia was a rber and if he checked me I would be dead. I could argue that because there had been no rb's that the last mafia was probably a framer.
Probably not the best way to do it but my whole strategy coming in was messed up. I would have breadcrumbed town rb'er but what I actually did was breadcrumb cop expecting zara to be cop. Cop claiming vs trotske would be suicide even without him having breadcrumbs due to him having zero point to claim if he was mafia.
EPT
