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[T] MTG Mini Mafia II - Page 90
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
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RockHydra
Pitcairn222 Posts
My suspicion of Aperture is less because I feel they would have told xfire to sac his stuff to defend himself. btw, I think if we can lynch 2 people today that'd be good. But they would have to be good targets. On the other hand I think letting everyone attack who they want might give us more information. If we kill two people and we are wrong about em.. that would put us in a pretty bad spot though. Because if everyone acts as one.. it doesnt actually give us any new information. /undecided /zebezt | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
Do you understand our logic for thinking we should double lynch? If so why do you disagree with it? If not what doesn't make sense so I can explain it to you. Who do you, Zebzet, think is scum and why? No cases or anything just a two-second-synopsis gogogo. p | ||
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RockHydra
Pitcairn222 Posts
On February 04 2013 17:52 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Do you think that is worth the trade off that comes from drawing attention to himself and diverging drastically from his past meta? Why or why not? What would you do if you rolled scum? p Tough question. I think with Aperture getting a lot of attention it doesn't hurt for Nova to lie low and play the no-time-card. You are right though if I was scum I'd probably try to stay as close to my previous games as possible. /zebezt | ||
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RockHydra
Pitcairn222 Posts
I don't have enough time to go into the double lynch question now. gotta work now /zebezt | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
Can you honestly look at my filter and find a scum motivation? | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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RockHydra
Pitcairn222 Posts
as town you want to analyse scum behavior. If you can be sure someone is scum, this helps in the analyzing of the other scum. If you hold this option open too long you limit yourself. Anyone that seriously want to analyse scum would assume xfire is scum by now. Only scum of course can really be sure who is scum. Scum knows this and might try to not appear too convinced of somebodys role. /zebezt | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On February 04 2013 18:57 RockHydra wrote: Easy, as town you want to analyse scum behavior. If you can be sure someone is scum, this helps in the analyzing of the other scum. If you hold this option open too long you limit yourself. Anyone that seriously want to analyse scum would assume xfire is scum by now. Only scum of course can really be sure who is scum. Scum knows this and might try to not appear too convinced of somebodys role. /zebezt Ok Thing is i do assume that hes scum, i just aknowledge the slight chance that he isnt (which is still growing smaller) | ||
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(DontFear)ThePoster
Guernsey584 Posts
Zeb, I still want to to answer my questions. Nova, you should answer the questions I asked zeb. p | ||
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RockHydra
Pitcairn222 Posts
On February 04 2013 19:17 Nova_Terra wrote: Ok Thing is i do assume that hes scum, i just aknowledge the slight chance that he isnt (which is still growing smaller) What you say here does not match with what you wrote here: On February 03 2013 18:45 Nova_Terra wrote: .. If Crossfire indeed flips scum, we need to take a look at these interactions: .. If you assume he is scum, you don't need to wait for a flip. is that burning smell coming from your pants? /zebezt PS: DFTP stop nagging! after work I said | ||
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Clockwork Hydra
Uzbekistan442 Posts
However, there is no reason not to blast Xfire with a healthy dose of 5 damage right now. Second, I agree that Aperture needs to die. Add this to the reasons he's scum: he is fairly active this game. Ask him a question about the mtg side of things and he will pop in and join the discussion. Ask him about mafia and he says nothing. He doesn't want to tell anybody about his reads and the two cases he made so far are both bad: one is on a confirmed town, the other on what looks to me to be very likely town. He is not pushing his cases or making new ones. In SSB I remember iGrok being very adamant about pushing his scum reads (and pushing his plan). They were completely wrong, but he was actively pushing them and appeared invested in the thread. This game iGrok's main contributions are that any time the thread goes seriously south, he's in the middle of it. Greymist I have nothing on. He came back from holiday and has, insofar as I can see, done nothing, except for his half of the stutters analysis. Why not advising Xfire doesn't make him town: if I were scum I would advise Xfire to blow shit up at the end of the attack phase (before damage resolution of course). This has 2 advantages: the first is that town might spend extra resources in killing you and the second is that you know exactly how much damage you need to prevent. The disadvantage is that town might blow up your creatures before you can blow shit up, meaning you might need to sac more lands. Why Suck is scum You know what Suck's contribution to scumhunting has been this game? He has made a bad case against Nova. The combined forces of marv and snb have managed to do 1 thing: find a load of shit that is not indicative of alignment when looking at Nova. Marv has gone into full-on lurker mode. He is not pressuring anybody, despite actually being present for a lot of the game. SnB has done nothing. Even when absent, SnB as town phoneposts to say "dudes, I'm in England, don't lynch me because I don't have internet" and then gives a quick list of reads. As mafia, he straight up lurks (although he seems to have improved in WLIIA). Evidence: SSM and Caller - Remove Incognito. Now, would scum SnB have posted the plan for Xfire in the thread? Well, he told us: never assume your opponent is too stupid to not recognize the board possibilities. In this case a scum SnB expects town to already know what needed doing (blow up Xfire's shit and then just hope for the best). He didn't want to be forced to contribute to town by casting an enchant on Nova's land and thus told town the plan wouldn't work. This allowed him to follow his own plan and cast his own useful stuff. He also scored townie points for being the herald and noticing that shit. Marv flip flops on Xfire. He spends quite a bit of his time soft-defending Xfire. + Show Spoiler [Marv and Xfire] + Original stance on Xfire is to agree with the suspicions (my early D1 case and the followups). He doesn't add anything new, but says Xfire is "suspicious". Now, the rest: On January 31 2013 04:33 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: crossfire seems overwhelmed. legitimate reaction for someone who doesnt know mtg and doesnt have a partner to ask about it. his big post about ch is interesting. hes right that theres a contradiction in the first two posts he identifies, but the contradiction is completely explainable by ch reacting differently towards crossfire (relative noob) and igrok (very vet), ch took the same question seriously from igrok. i dont see scum motivation in that contradiction, and (to both his blame (bad townie play) and credit (at least he didnt try to make up some bullshit)) crossfire doesnt explain the possible scum motivation at all. however, in his second point he is kind of pointing out a contradiction that does have scum motivation. the quotes that he has from ch do seem to indicate "beware of giving any one person too much power" "oh wait i mean, unless its me lol". everything else in his filter is either self defense or just expressing being overwhelmed. i guess i like that he tried to do some analysis anyway. overall conclusion: possible scum? hes doing a lot of defense and "oh me oh my" ing but otoh this is a fast paced game with weird ass mechanics where we are all talking about the mechanics all the time. id wait a few days before lynching him to give him a chance to feel less overwhelmed. good thing we can't lynch anyone today anyway. At the time I just skipped over this post, and read it as being wrong. Now that we know xfire is scum, Marv is going on record here saying that xfire might be scum, but probably just wait to lynch him. Classic scum behaviour: wants the town credit when his mafia buddy flips, but wants to stall the lynch as long as possible. On January 31 2013 05:42 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Yeah, but here it's... Suck is scummy, maybe for this reason maybe not, more later.... Suck still scummy, more later.... Suck still scummy, more later.... In the last game he didn't have to promise future content, he was happy just to say "yeah kill these dudes". Here he feels the need to justify his absence and his read with future promises. My read on Stutters (slightly town) remains unchanged, and Crossfire seems less scummy for it. At least he made the effort to defend himself and make a case on someone, even though some of it was wrong, some of it was correct too - marvelbabe Huh? What does Stutters being town have to do with Xfire being town? Why randomly include the scumbuddy in this town read? On January 31 2013 06:18 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I take it from your attitude that you think Crossfire is 'surely' scum then, gonzaw? Town explanation: please clarify your stance. Scum explanation: mr. town leader, is it time to bus my scumbuddy? Would marv want that confirmation to make the decision? Finally something meta can help with. In Hero, Marv's stance on Adam is really non-committal. There's the "might be scum, but lets wait and see"... but then Palmar comes in, says Adam is scum and asks why Marv isn't voting for him. 2 pages later, he is (nothing of consequence happened in those 2 pages). Scum Marv does not just willy nilly bus his buddies, he needs to be sure he'll get town cred for doing so. On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: This game's looking quite decent. In order of towniness: gonz/Prome - blates town me/s&b - town too. slightly less town than gonz because i haven't seen our role PM even though s&b promises we're town Binonfire - Minds Aglow totes pro-town, Oats being silly with it also probably town Hopeless/zebeszt - probably townish too, posts don't show any fear (lol) Stutters - let's call this dude town for now, seems kinda interested Acro/dand - have hardons for calling me mafia, but maybe they just like that sort of thing. Decent case on Crossfire, although if I was lynching for meta, I'd be lynching s&b. Crossfire seems a good deal more interested than he was in... Mario Mafia as scum. Crossfire - see above, could still be mafia Nova - scummy, see awesome burgler case Aperture - kill it with fire! see also awesome gonzaw case. The more I think about it the less I like how iGrok declared Bin scummy because Oats was disagreeing with MG on Minds Aglow. Seems really superficial. Ta-da! Heading rather fast towards giving Xfire a town read AFTER the meta case. Is Marv really bad enough to not realize that the metas match 100%? On February 01 2013 06:29 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I presume you are referring to the Aperture case and the Nova burgler case, yes? Discrediting the case on Xfire. Shortly after that Xfire claimed scum. TLDR No scumhunting. Stand-offish about Xfire. Fitting SnB's scum meta. There are still some things that I think point to a town Suck, but honestly, if we can kill both Aperture and Suck, I am 95% sure we'll hit at least 1 scum. A quick blurb on why you should get your heads out of your asses regarding the CW-Xfire mutual bus thing. Xfire fucked up his sacrifice-defense. He screwed it up by taking out my Rootwalla and enchantment, instead of my Rootwalla and a Zombie. He took out what was probably the strongest card on the board FOR NO GOOD REASON (at least from a spot defense point of view). He was then forced to gimp himself even further to actually take out a zombie. This went WAY overboard on what was necessary to make it look like a two-way-bus and went straight into "I am doing as much damage as I possibly can to your board". I mean, Dandel and I talked it over in Skype and we reckoned a two-way-bus would have been a hilarious stunt, but it didn't actually happen. What happened was, we found scum and attacked him. Then he went nuts, claimed scum and fucked up the townie with the dangerous enchant. /Acro | ||
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RockHydra
Pitcairn222 Posts
But now that you brag about it yourself that towncred is gone again. Because it might just be that you told him to kill the enchantment to give you some extra town points. /zebezt | ||
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Clockwork Hydra
Uzbekistan442 Posts
On February 04 2013 21:38 RockHydra wrote: I had noticed the fact that he killed your enchantment too. Noticed it gave you some town cred. But now that you brag about it yourself that towncred is gone again. Because it might just be that you told him to kill the enchantment to give you some extra town points. /zebezt Convenient excuse to drop a "townread" you never had anyways. Want to keep your options open, huh? ~dandel | ||
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Clockwork Hydra
Uzbekistan442 Posts
The only reason I felt it needed to be brought to your attention is because idiots keep bringing it up as if they might be seriously entertaining the idea. Like... if you want to call me scum, go through my filter and make a case. Otherwise, go bugger a goat. /Acro | ||
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SuckMyTopdeck
Guernsey314 Posts
On February 04 2013 21:19 Clockwork Hydra wrote an Extremely Terrible Post: Second, I agree that Aperture needs to die. Add this to the reasons he's scum: he is fairly active this game. Marv has gone into full-on lurker mode. When singlehandedly I have way more posts than iGrok and Aperture combined? SnB has done nothing. Even when absent, SnB as town phoneposts to say "dudes, I'm in England, don't lynch me because I don't have internet" and then gives a quick list of reads. As mafia, he straight up lurks (although he seems to have improved in WLIIA). Evidence: SSM and Caller - Remove Incognito. Yep. I told s&b myself on skype that I'd be lynching him for how he's played this game. He told me before this game he took a month+ break because he was burnt out with mafia. And unfortunately he still feels this way. This isn't really a defence per se, because it's easy to say "herp derp, explaining why you're scummy isn't townie", but it is what it is. Now, would scum SnB have posted the plan for Xfire in the thread? Well, he told us: never assume your opponent is too stupid to not recognize the board possibilities. In this case a scum SnB expects town to already know what needed doing (blow up Xfire's shit and then just hope for the best). He didn't want to be forced to contribute to town by casting an enchant on Nova's land and thus told town the plan wouldn't work. This allowed him to follow his own plan and cast his own useful stuff. He also scored townie points for being the herald and noticing that shit. This is simply creating a narrative that doesn't exist. Huh? What does Stutters being town have to do with Xfire being town? Why randomly include the scumbuddy in this town read? Nova being scummier makes Crossfire less scummy, given we were working on the hydra + lonestar theory. Simple. Town explanation: please clarify your stance. Scum explanation: mr. town leader, is it time to bus my scumbuddy? Would marv want that confirmation to make the decision? Finally something meta can help with. In Hero, Marv's stance on Adam is really non-committal. There's the "might be scum, but lets wait and see"... but then Palmar comes in, says Adam is scum and asks why Marv isn't voting for him. 2 pages later, he is (nothing of consequence happened in those 2 pages). Scum Marv does not just willy nilly bus his buddies, he needs to be sure he'll get town cred for doing so. I wasn't sure on Nova, yet gonzaw was implying he was totally sure on Crossfire, so I was questioning the certainty relative to mine. Again, creating a random narrative that doesn't exist Heading rather fast towards giving Xfire a town read AFTER the meta case. Is Marv really bad enough to not realize that the metas match 100%? Can you really not read? Aperture = hydra mafia read, then between Nova and Crossfire, leaning on Nova. Discrediting the case on Xfire. Seriously. lol. It's called a joke. My masterplan was to "discredit" >.> the case on Crossfire just before he claimed mafia? It's a fucking masterstroke! I actually chuckled when I read this bit. You know a case is silly when you actually laugh at a point in it. | ||
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Clockwork Hydra
Uzbekistan442 Posts
Either way, he lurks far more as scum than as town and he is lurking this game. Also, I am not calling both you and Aperture scum. I am calling one of you scum and can't be arsed to figure out which one. That's good enough if we can kill 2 people (assuming we can). /Acro | ||
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RockHydra
Pitcairn222 Posts
On February 04 2013 21:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Yup. I also regularly claim vig as scum and shoot my scumbuddy in the face. Oh wait. Nobody does that because it doesn't work. The only reason I felt it needed to be brought to your attention is because idiots keep bringing it up as if they might be seriously entertaining the idea. Like... if you want to call me scum, go through my filter and make a case. Otherwise, go bugger a goat. /Acro Are you guys always this defensive? /zebezt | ||
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SuckMyTopdeck
Guernsey314 Posts
On February 04 2013 22:36 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Actually, lol, now that I think of it, the whole "I'm in England" thing was in CT, where SnB was scum. I got confused with Bastard 2 or HRM where he was travelling all the time. Guess he did correct that aspect of his scum play. Either way, he lurks far more as scum than as town and he is lurking this game. Also, I am not calling both you and Aperture scum. I am calling one of you scum and can't be arsed to figure out which one. That's good enough if we can kill 2 people (assuming we can). /Acro I might deal damage to you just for being silly | ||
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