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Germany2686 Posts
On December 27 2012 23:38 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 13:42 shz wrote:
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This is really hard to get a grip on and in no way I am confidend in this days lynch. Fuck. Were you more confident in the other lynches? Seriously, this is the definition of the "hand-wringy scum thing" that marv talked about with Kickstart in XXXI. It's a lot easier to take a stand as scum if you act really uncertain about it, and that's exactly what he's doing when he's pressed for reads. Shz hasn't been confident in a single lynch all game. He nearly completely ignored the lynches d1 and 2, and didn't even vote for someone d2. Not only is this the scum trait of being uninvolved in lynches, it shows how the above quote is bs. There's no reason for shz to act all uncertain about todays lynch when he hasn't participated in any other lynch. By doing this, he also excuses himself from giving any confident scumreads, like he's been avoiding all game. He's being pressed for reads so he chooses the easy one but acts nervous to make himself look better when he flips town. I would be up for a shz lynch. At the very least, I'd have a very hard time voting Kickstart because of this.
I explained why I'm not confidend. But being not confidend seems to be scummy, so if I just pull something out of my ass you will be satisfied? I don't think so, thats why I will not do it. I see the points on all the candidates, but I don't feel overly strong towards anyone. FC still didn't contribute anything. I would lynch kick and FC at least for t
he lurking and on top of them for leaning towards scum. But I'm not vonfident that they will flip scum, but at least flip lurker.
I will not spam two pages of player X IS 100% SCUM. That seems like your approach to his game.
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The other three includes me, so that narrows it down to the other two.
I don't feel strongly towards shz, and didn't even think him a possibility until I was asked to play devil's advocate for him.
I don't understand Kickstart's play either, it doesn't emulate being a townie, really. But neither does it scum.
FC seems to be benefiting from not being pressure most. He has really not contributed much on the voting front, just hopping on the Omni bandwagon and also voting threesr D1. Scummy?
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On December 28 2012 02:27 Orangeremi wrote:
FC seems to be benefiting from not being pressure most. He has really not contributed much on the voting front, just hopping on the Omni bandwagon and also voting threesr D1. Scummy?
I feel like everyone kind of hopped on the Omni bandwagon, not just FC. Voting Threesr Day 1 is not a scummy move in my eyes, it was choosing between me(when there wasn't much conclusive evidence I was scum), Spag (who flipped town), and Threesr. I feel like Threesr was the best vote there, and voting for him was not a scummy move (I voted for Threesr as well).
However, that does not mean that he is 100% town, his scumhunting has been really bad, and has not responded to any suspicions placed on him. While I feel like he should be lynched, I still think Kick is a safer option today.
Good job getting into the discussion, now keep it up and it might change the way we think about you.
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I understand everybody hopped on that bandwagon, I was just point out that he did too, and that's all he did.
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On December 28 2012 02:14 shz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 23:38 Chromatically wrote:On December 27 2012 13:42 shz wrote:
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This is really hard to get a grip on and in no way I am confidend in this days lynch. Fuck. Were you more confident in the other lynches? Seriously, this is the definition of the "hand-wringy scum thing" that marv talked about with Kickstart in XXXI. It's a lot easier to take a stand as scum if you act really uncertain about it, and that's exactly what he's doing when he's pressed for reads. Shz hasn't been confident in a single lynch all game. He nearly completely ignored the lynches d1 and 2, and didn't even vote for someone d2. Not only is this the scum trait of being uninvolved in lynches, it shows how the above quote is bs. There's no reason for shz to act all uncertain about todays lynch when he hasn't participated in any other lynch. By doing this, he also excuses himself from giving any confident scumreads, like he's been avoiding all game. He's being pressed for reads so he chooses the easy one but acts nervous to make himself look better when he flips town. I would be up for a shz lynch. At the very least, I'd have a very hard time voting Kickstart because of this. I explained why I'm not confidend. But being not confidend seems to be scummy, so if I just pull something out of my ass you will be satisfied? I don't think so, thats why I will not do it. I see the points on all the candidates, but I don't feel overly strong towards anyone. FC still didn't contribute anything. I would lynch kick and FC at least for t he lurking and on top of them for leaning towards scum. But I'm not vonfident that they will flip scum, but at least flip lurker. I will not spam two pages of player X IS 100% SCUM. That seems like your approach to his game.
Uh, two posts. I said that in two posts. Not spam.
The problem is that you haven't been confident in anything all game long. You have not taken a single stance all game. You didn't even vote on d2. D2 you blamed lurkers to excuse yourself for not having a a single strong scumread. There is NO reason for a townie to not even try to push their preferred candidate to lynch, but you didn't even vote. And now, you excuse yourself from having a scumread by talking about how unconfident you are. I would rather you spam "100% scum" than do what you're doing now.
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Vote Count
Kickstart (3) Aquanim, Sylencia, cDgCorazon
FatChuck (3) Chromatically, Cakepie, Orangeremi
Note Voting (3) Kickstart, FatChuck, shz
Currently Kickstart is set to be lynched, deadline in a bit more than 4 hours. Everyone must vote; if you see your vote or any other player's vote out of place please contact your friendly hosting staff.
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On December 27 2012 18:22 cakepie wrote:
The town who may be among the lurkers are in fear that whatever they can bring to the table now will not be enough, and they fear getting mislynched, what with how we did on the first two days. So ironically while we are pressing them for substance, we cannot hope for much substance anyway. If they have been playing lazily, the task of catching up, and then stepping up to the plate, can be too daunting.
I literally just kept delaying posting for this reason. I have been quite lazy. OMGUS?
First, I'd like to address something that gave cakepie a scumread on me:
Me lynching omni for information. In that post of mine I prefaced the post with such a statement. I later began to develop why I think this would be a good lynch, followed by stating that I had a scumread on him. The town flip on omni makes us doubt Mocsta's cases on chrom and cakepie, and helps us look at relationships omni has with other players.
My scum reads are for Kickstart, and orangeremi, and sHz. Followed by Sylencia. basically, the lurkers. Now i realize this is hypocritical because i lurk too. I think that mafia have let town go crazy and lynch themselves while they wait in the back on a weak LAL policy. But I think we're all learning now - posters that are coming active NOW are the ones trying to establish themselves as town (sHz, orangeremi,). I guess kickstart is an exception though, busy holidays? no defense whatsoever can't be smart.
Kickstart:
-Basically in the early game he makes the vote on the spag train to a town lynch.
-Is very narrow-minded in whom he suspects scum. Poor scumhunter, makes a small effort in the vein of "I'll make a weak case against someone for them to shut it down, so that i look like a scumhunter!" against cakepie, shz.
-His reads are basically shz. nobody else except a well-deflected stand against cakepie. Kick: who are your other two scum reads besides sHz and why?
-bandwagonner
-no effort to help town
sHz:
-One of the players who is attempting to establish themelves as town.
-after 2 days of afk from christmas, shz posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2012 13:42 shz wrote:
while Orange declared him scummy on a few occasions but never actually voted or applied any real pressure. I don't think that anyone actually looked into Kick because of him, which could be a very clever scum-play. But is it? I don't know.
I'm not sure if we could actually get any information on their relation if we lynch any of them. But I don't know if we actually could gain more information by lynching anyone else, and out of all the lurkier players, he seems to be the scumiest. I will probably vote for him. At this point, no one is a safe bet, but the safest seems to be Kick.
This is really hard to get a grip on and in no way I am confidend in this days lynch. Fuck.
-very mild reads, not confident in his scumread on kick. basically 50/50 read. What happens if Kick turns town, he looks like scum. if kick turns scum he looks like scum because he tried to save kick.
Orangeremi:
-my third suspect, basically the same as all the other lurkers
-suspects me early on, with no explanation why. He just agrees with the case that Chrom put forward, and then claims that its his suspicion. why? because he has to pick another player in the lurkers to keep the attention off himself and his team. Is forcing it now to get pressure off his back.
-one-sentence scum reads on players who are already under suspicion.
-forced town-sympathetic posts of frustration.
And regarding the discussion question:
Chrom: i used to have suspicions on because he would aggressively twist my words and throw them back in my face. but I now realize that this can just be the aggressive nature of a towny. Has had some pretty good logic and scumhunting, however, like everyone else, has been wrong 100% of the time. Honestly, the effort put into this game makes me think he's town.
From what I can tell he is the best scum read for alot of us:
##Vote: Kickstart
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Now a voting trend like this is going to give us a lot more information when the lynch turns and we see who voted (and didn't vote) for it. So much better than us having ganged up on a single player both days before.
Please, those of us who have not voted, VOTE! And do it for the player you think will benefit us most. It is crucial. We need to be productive today or else this game is over.
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On December 28 2012 01:59 Orangeremi wrote:
I'm really curious if that's the best course of action, Corazon. You seem to just have a hit list that ultimately will lessen the size of town more than anything. Doesn't seem all too beneficial to me.
The overwhelming vote count for Kick right now leads me to believe the scum are just hopping on his wagon. If he was actually scum, wouldn't the mafia would find another player to try and start a wagon for to save him. But that isn't happening. I think we need to reevaluate.
In the meantime I'm going back to one of my initial reads.
##Vote: FatChunk
On December 28 2012 02:27 Orangeremi wrote:
FC seems to be benefiting from not being pressure most. He has really not contributed much on the voting front, just hopping on the Omni bandwagon and also voting threesr D1. Scummy?
This is not even nearly good enough. JUSTIFY this vote. Show me exactly what in FatChunk's play is scummy.
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There's not much more than two hours before lynch. I want an answer Orange and I want it now.
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Can someone debunk my crazy theory:
If we assume that all three scum are in this group (excluding myself, Aqua, Cora, and cake):
Kickstart
FatChunk
Orangeremi
Syl
shz
and we assume that certain people are not in a scumteam:
shz + Kick (Kick's top scumread was shz, pushed shz a little, shz will probably vote for Kick)
Syl + Kick (Syl was one of the first to vote for Kick, still voting for Kick)
Orange + FC (Orange is voting FC, has also voted him in d1)
The only possible scumteam left is:
shz + Syl + (Orange/FC)
I don't see any scumteam that doesn't include shz and Syl, and I see no scumteam that includes Kick.
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I have one word: bus.
Nothing about Orange's votes for FC screams "not scumbuddies" to me.
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I agree Shz and Syl are more unlikely to be buddies with Kick though, which might make Orange or FC a better lynch today. I'll have a think about that.
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But why would scum be bussing today? There's no reason to; a town lynch today practically guarentees a scum victory. Scum, especially new scum, wouldn't risk voting their buddies when the votes are this close and the victory is so near.
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If scumteam is Kick/Orange/FC, say, they don't really have a choice - one of them's going down today.
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On December 28 2012 07:10 Aquanim wrote:
If scumteam is Kick/Orange/FC, say, they don't really have a choice - one of them's going down today.
EBWOP: And the time taken realising that might be why we heard nothing of worth from any of them for the first 36 hours of the day.
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On December 28 2012 07:10 Aquanim wrote:
If scumteam is Kick/Orange/FC, say, they don't really have a choice - one of them's going down today.
But if the scum team is so, why would they be trying to bus each other?
Orange is voting for FC, and FC is voting for kick. It wouldn't make sense for them to all bus each other at the same time. They would be trying to bus one single person.
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That's a good point. I think it's less likely though, given that Orange has voted FC before. Also, I think that Kickstart would have been a better bus candidate, given that he has 0 influence with the town.
In fact, I think that this, along with his other scummy posting, is enough to warrant a shz lynch today:
##Unvote
##Vote: shz
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Oh yeah, I actually forgot that FC voted Kick. FC's also probably not in a team with Kick, then, making my team more likely.
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On December 28 2012 07:22 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 07:10 Aquanim wrote:
If scumteam is Kick/Orange/FC, say, they don't really have a choice - one of them's going down today. But if the scum team is so, why would they be trying to bus each other? Orange is voting for FC, and FC is voting for kick. It wouldn't make sense for them to all bus each other at the same time. They would be trying to bus one single person.
If Kick just isn't here at all, the only one they could both bus would be Kick - and that might be a little too obvious.
On December 28 2012 07:25 Chromatically wrote:
That's a good point. I think it's less likely though, given that Orange has voted FC before. Also, I think that Kickstart would have been a better bus candidate, given that he has 0 influence with the town.
In fact, I think that this, along with his other scummy posting, is enough to warrant a shz lynch today:
##Unvote
##Vote: shz
Could you explain Shz scum to me? I mean, the refusal to make cases isn't great, but when I read his filter I read an thought process looking for answers. Which is not the feeling I get when I read posts made by Orange, FC or Kick.
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EPT
