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Paranoia Mafia - Page 20

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Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
November 30 2012 18:14 GMT
#381
On December 01 2012 03:10 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 03:09 debears wrote:
Marv,

I will wait til answer that when dandel gives me a response to the above question


what has dandel's responses got to do with it?

you're fundamentally contradicting yourself and that has nothing to do with what dandel responds with...

You may as well let him wait for a little, though I'm pretty sure what he comes up with will be not relevant to the contradiction.
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
November 30 2012 18:14 GMT
#382
On December 01 2012 03:03 debears wrote:
@Xatal

I don't think the problem is giving reads so much, as long as you have good reasoning behind them.

Saying "X is town because I like his posting", for instance, not beneficial. You're follow up explaining why was good though. That's the important part


Hmm, I guess so. Certainly it'd be more useful to give a town read with strong evidence backing it up. I've been in a situation where I placed a town read on the most active Mafia player and never believed he was Mafia until it was already too late. My intuition isn't infallible after all... Even so, it seems more productive to focus on those players who don't appear interested in pushing the discussion.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
November 30 2012 18:15 GMT
#383
On December 01 2012 03:14 Zealos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 03:10 marvellosity wrote:
On December 01 2012 03:09 debears wrote:
Marv,

I will wait til answer that when dandel gives me a response to the above question


what has dandel's responses got to do with it?

you're fundamentally contradicting yourself and that has nothing to do with what dandel responds with...

You may as well let him wait for a little, though I'm pretty sure what he comes up with will be not relevant to the contradiction.


why?

why do you want him to wait to explain a contradiction which only relies on what he's posted and nothing to do with what dandel has posted? why would you want that?

explain yourself, cretinous fiend.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
November 30 2012 18:21 GMT
#384
On December 01 2012 03:15 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 03:14 Zealos wrote:
On December 01 2012 03:10 marvellosity wrote:
On December 01 2012 03:09 debears wrote:
Marv,

I will wait til answer that when dandel gives me a response to the above question


what has dandel's responses got to do with it?

you're fundamentally contradicting yourself and that has nothing to do with what dandel responds with...

You may as well let him wait for a little, though I'm pretty sure what he comes up with will be not relevant to the contradiction.


why?

why do you want him to wait to explain a contradiction which only relies on what he's posted and nothing to do with what dandel has posted? why would you want that?

explain yourself, cretinous fiend.

Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day.
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
November 30 2012 18:21 GMT
#385
On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?

Everyone scared or something?

Ace care to share with the class?


Actually, I don't think it means anything. I've seen veteran players casting random votes before just to possibly get a reaction or something. A vote without any reasoning is basically a throwaway vote in any case.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
November 30 2012 18:22 GMT
#386
On December 01 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 03:13 austinmcc wrote:
On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?

Everyone scared or something?

Ace care to share with the class?

I actually wasn't interested by it. Not currently inclined to vote marv.


care to commentate on what you provoked with me and debears?

I still don't think debears has good reasons for his vote, no matter how many times he references vets or DYH trying to undermine Ace, or anything like that. Nothing...new generated from him, so right now he's still on the scummy side of things for me.

As to you...mild town read based on your pursuit of this and your dislike of his votes.

There's not a lot of substance yet that's come out of this though. You're pursuing something I sort of did last night, and he's answering, so far, in more or less the same way as he has been. It's more of the same, and so nothing has dropped out of the conversation yet that really triggers a reaction from me.
Fe fi fo fum.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
November 30 2012 18:24 GMT
#387
On December 01 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote:
On December 01 2012 03:13 austinmcc wrote:
On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?

Everyone scared or something?

Ace care to share with the class?

I actually wasn't interested by it. Not currently inclined to vote marv.


care to commentate on what you provoked with me and debears?

I still don't think debears has good reasons for his vote, no matter how many times he references vets or DYH trying to undermine Ace, or anything like that. Nothing...new generated from him, so right now he's still on the scummy side of things for me.

As to you...mild town read based on your pursuit of this and your dislike of his votes.

There's not a lot of substance yet that's come out of this though. You're pursuing something I sort of did last night, and he's answering, so far, in more or less the same way as he has been. It's more of the same, and so nothing has dropped out of the conversation yet that really triggers a reaction from me.


I don't really agree it's more of the same. He's making post-hoc explanations that contradict his earlier ones, which he had not done previously.

I'm curious you don't pick up on this.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
November 30 2012 18:26 GMT
#388
On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote:
Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day.
Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday.

So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday.

I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
November 30 2012 18:30 GMT
#389
On December 01 2012 03:24 marvellosity wrote:
I don't really agree it's more of the same. He's making post-hoc explanations that contradict his earlier ones, which he had not done previously.

I'm curious you don't pick up on this.

"made little sense for a scum to do it also" and "DI doing blah blah does make sense from a scum perspective" aren't as super-contradictory to me.

The rest of his posting today, the stuff concerning vets, sheeping, Ace, all that jazz, are more of the same to me. I see less contradiction and more harping on the same stuff that I didn't like before.
Fe fi fo fum.
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
November 30 2012 18:33 GMT
#390
On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote:
Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day.
Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday.

So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday.

I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not.

Well, from what I gather, it's something to do with, depending on what guides he's read on TL, there are different pieces of advice written. One piece of advice in one of the guides is about how town players should never state their "Noobiness" due to the fact it won't benefit them at all. Presumably, if he had answered Debears question saying he had read that particular guide, Debears would then assume he was using the info from said guide in a mafia way.

Or something along those lines. I may be wrong, and it's almost certainly easier if Debears answers it himself...
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
November 30 2012 18:35 GMT
#391
I warn, I'm watching IPL and playing dota, so it might be a little while before I post again
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
November 30 2012 18:38 GMT
#392
##Vote: dabears

Frankly I don't care about further explanation from dabears regarding this whole mess. I think he's said enough. The whole exchange between dabears and DYH is ridiculous in my opinion. People don't SHEEP Ace because he's known almost exclusively for his SCUM play. I've seen him really fucking own as town, but people don't know or care about that. Ace is known as a top-tier SCUM player, and so that's the image Ace conjures.

The fact that dabears is all up in arms about DYH "discrediting" Ace is nonsense...not only had Ace barely posted anything at the time, but DYH explained his motivation TWICE and dabears still didn't relent, or verily even acknowledge said explanations.

Also this post rings scumbells for me.

On November 30 2012 10:39 debears wrote:
Actually marv I have a slight town read on you

Ok guys I looked up Marv's previous games for games where he says he is town early on.

He has not done in his last few games as scum. He has done it twice as town

What does this mean? Something so small as saying you are town is most likely a subconscious thing. Sure, marv could have decided to do it this game, but it was right at game start. No one else had said anything like it

Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 08:01 marvellosity wrote:
Hi all.

Totes town ^^


Boom look at that pro analysis.

Links in the spoiler

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=140487

Town. Here is Mario Mini Mafia, Marv does not make any mention of being town

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=239&topic_id=382922

Town. Here marv states his posting is pro town, but does not call himself town in chrono trigger

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=140487

Scum. Here marv does not state town in his scum game is GSL

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&user=140487

Scum. Death note- no mention of being town when marv is scum

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=140487

Town. States he is outright town


Like...I don't know if it was meant to be a joke, but I think I know EXACTLY when marv started saying he's town at the outset of games, and it had nothing to do with his alignment at the time. Yet he's trying to pass off this post as some sort of actual analysis of marv's play? Simply by calling it analysis? Give me a break. Let's just kill it with fire, yeah?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
November 30 2012 18:44 GMT
#393
On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote:
Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/

Beyond debears and Ace's marv vote, did anything, or the lack of some things, interest you?



Fe fi fo fum.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
November 30 2012 18:44 GMT
#394
VE so handsome
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
November 30 2012 18:50 GMT
#395
Lack of pretty much anything from Bugs and BH interested me. In BH case, it's evident that he was around even.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
November 30 2012 18:51 GMT
#396
One player I find suspicious is VisceraEyes. He hasn't been merely trolling or lurking, but rather posting pseudo-productive posts that make him look somewhat active - without actually accomplishing anything. This playstyle in between useless and useful is the one I'm always suspicious of.

On November 30 2012 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
Good stuff guys. Good, good stuff.

For anyone who hasn't played with him before, Ace is going to pop in about twice or thrice a cycle. He's not going to try and lead anyone. He's also not going to FOLLOW anyone. He's going to play Mafia. If he's scum, he's going to fucking own us. If he's town, he's going to be right but will probably lose because he can't stand people not playing on his level and will lose interest.

That about sum it up sir?

So let's just drop the topic of Ace as he's made all of what...1 one-liner post? We'll resume discussion of the man once he throws some content up in this piece.

dabears, I'm more interested in you damning DYH for having an opinion on Ace. The guy doesn't even HAVE any posts to discredit, so why are you so concerned about him trying to do so this early anyway? Do you know something I don't about Ace's alignment?

That's the only thing that's jumped out at me so far - everything else is chaff and while I don't necessarily mind it, it's certainly not helping anyone find scum (happy Bugs?)

I'm going to bed guys.


This post does actually have a point about debears... But VisceraEyes doesn't pursue it anyhow, just points it out (like some other players did) and never speaks of it again. The rest is pretty much safe-to-say meaningless fluff.

On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 02:33 Lazermonkey wrote:
On December 01 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:
austin, I agree that I don't like this vote:

On November 30 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
On November 30 2012 10:38 DoYouHas wrote:
On November 30 2012 10:29 debears wrote:
On November 30 2012 08:25 DoYouHas wrote:
Hi everyone, looking forward to an active game. It's nice to recognize many of the names on the playerlist even though I haven't played in a while.

I'm happy to see Marv/BH/VE in here. With those 3 there is no reason the thread should be inactive.

I'm perhaps overly cautious of Ace. His reputation obviously precedes him. Never having played with him paired with the knowledge that he can be a devastatingly effective scum leader makes me a little paranoid.

As always, I am in favor of lurker lynching on day1 unless a better candidate shows up (which it inevitably will).


DoYouHas

Why are you trying to paint such a picture on ace? Sure, he is a forefather of TL Mafia, and I'm sure all of us are aware of his ability. But why try to focus on his scumplay so much over his town play?

As I recall, he is also a pretty darn good town player. Stating how you are overly cautious of him (implying somewhat to others that they should also be) just because he's a good mafia player doesn't seem like something a townie would do


Because it does the dual job of accurately explaining my feelings towards him to start the game and hopefully stirring up a little fear towards him so that people don't sheep him quite as readily. If he ends up taking a town leader role, I want him to earn it instead of being ushered into it on his reputation.


That doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to sheep someone cuz of their reputation. I'm going to sheep if their case

1) makes sense
2) is good
3) I believe they are town

If he takes a town leader position, it'll be because of those things. Not because of his reputation

##Unvote
##Vote DoYouHas


Just because debears himself won't sheep someone on reputation doesn't mean people don't, and it doesn't make it inherently scummy to think that people do.

I can find various instances of townies basically just sheeping me (e.g. Clarity, iamperfection)
To be frank, I do think almost everyone are more willingly to sheep players who are considered to be stronger rather than newbies even if they deny it. At least to some extent. I think it's a part of your subconscious.


Truth. Something to do with pack mentality, wanting to fit in, etc. etc. Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/


A quite unnecessary and forgettable post.

On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?

Everyone scared or something?

Ace care to share with the class?


Actually an "original" topic, but yet again safe to say and not really that productive. Feels like something Mafia might say to look like they're doing something, while actually not doing anything. I also dislike how none of his posts are connected... It's like he's posting the minimum required amount and avoiding commitment to anything.

Overall, nothing decisive, but all of this leaves an uneasy feeling about VE for me.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
November 30 2012 18:52 GMT
#397
On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote:
Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day.
Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday.

So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday.

I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not.


Very well. My thought process

Dandel said he's noob in vet game

Town - Refer to Djo's first game if you know what I mean
Scum - Wants town to ignore him

Ok, so I thought of this: Dandel is a newish player to TL Mafia. Newish players usually read the guides. My whole "saying your noob" read is from Ver's XXX analysis. Which, thinking back, almost everyone I've played with is familiar with it

On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.



Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly)


So, I was thinking, with Dandel being a new player, and most likely reading the guide, why would he do that as scum? Most of us would pick up on it. It'd be dumb

Also, based on that, it would put him in the spotlight (even if it is just mine)

See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
November 30 2012 18:54 GMT
#398
On December 01 2012 03:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote: dabears

Frankly I don't care about further explanation from dabears regarding this whole mess. I think he's said enough. The whole exchange between dabears and DYH is ridiculous in my opinion. People don't SHEEP Ace because he's known almost exclusively for his SCUM play. I've seen him really fucking own as town, but people don't know or care about that. Ace is known as a top-tier SCUM player, and so that's the image Ace conjures.

The fact that dabears is all up in arms about DYH "discrediting" Ace is nonsense...not only had Ace barely posted anything at the time, but DYH explained his motivation TWICE and dabears still didn't relent, or verily even acknowledge said explanations.

Also this post rings scumbells for me.

Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 10:39 debears wrote:
Actually marv I have a slight town read on you

Ok guys I looked up Marv's previous games for games where he says he is town early on.

He has not done in his last few games as scum. He has done it twice as town

What does this mean? Something so small as saying you are town is most likely a subconscious thing. Sure, marv could have decided to do it this game, but it was right at game start. No one else had said anything like it

On November 30 2012 08:01 marvellosity wrote:
Hi all.

Totes town ^^


Boom look at that pro analysis.

Links in the spoiler

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=140487

Town. Here is Mario Mini Mafia, Marv does not make any mention of being town

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=239&topic_id=382922

Town. Here marv states his posting is pro town, but does not call himself town in chrono trigger

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=140487

Scum. Here marv does not state town in his scum game is GSL

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&user=140487

Scum. Death note- no mention of being town when marv is scum

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=140487

Town. States he is outright town


Like...I don't know if it was meant to be a joke, but I think I know EXACTLY when marv started saying he's town at the outset of games, and it had nothing to do with his alignment at the time. Yet he's trying to pass off this post as some sort of actual analysis of marv's play? Simply by calling it analysis? Give me a break. Let's just kill it with fire, yeah?


Hey VE. It's a trend in marv's townplay. It's called meta. You should read up on it
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
November 30 2012 18:54 GMT
#399
Is this a curse or what... Always when I post about someone, they leave a new post while I'm typing it.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
November 30 2012 18:58 GMT
#400
On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote:
On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote:
Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day.
Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday.

So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday.

I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not.


Very well. My thought process

Dandel said he's noob in vet game

Town - Refer to Djo's first game if you know what I mean
Scum - Wants town to ignore him

Ok, so I thought of this: Dandel is a newish player to TL Mafia. Newish players usually read the guides. My whole "saying your noob" read is from Ver's XXX analysis. Which, thinking back, almost everyone I've played with is familiar with it

Show nested quote +
On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:
On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.



Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly)


So, I was thinking, with Dandel being a new player, and most likely reading the guide, why would he do that as scum? Most of us would pick up on it. It'd be dumb

Also, based on that, it would put him in the spotlight (even if it is just mine)

See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys


the point is, debears, this 'town' explanation only appeared later and was not present in your mind at the time that you voted for DYH over Dandel. At the time you said there was zero town motivation and yet you moved your vote off him for spurious Ace-related reasons.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
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