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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:10 marvellosity wrote: what has dandel's responses got to do with it? you're fundamentally contradicting yourself and that has nothing to do with what dandel responds with... You may as well let him wait for a little, though I'm pretty sure what he comes up with will be not relevant to the contradiction. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:03 debears wrote: @Xatal I don't think the problem is giving reads so much, as long as you have good reasoning behind them. Saying "X is town because I like his posting", for instance, not beneficial. You're follow up explaining why was good though. That's the important part Hmm, I guess so. Certainly it'd be more useful to give a town read with strong evidence backing it up. I've been in a situation where I placed a town read on the most active Mafia player and never believed he was Mafia until it was already too late. My intuition isn't infallible after all... Even so, it seems more productive to focus on those players who don't appear interested in pushing the discussion. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:14 Zealos wrote: You may as well let him wait for a little, though I'm pretty sure what he comes up with will be not relevant to the contradiction. why? why do you want him to wait to explain a contradiction which only relies on what he's posted and nothing to do with what dandel has posted? why would you want that? explain yourself, cretinous fiend. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:15 marvellosity wrote: why? why do you want him to wait to explain a contradiction which only relies on what he's posted and nothing to do with what dandel has posted? why would you want that? explain yourself, cretinous fiend. Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right? Everyone scared or something? Ace care to share with the class? Actually, I don't think it means anything. I've seen veteran players casting random votes before just to possibly get a reaction or something. A vote without any reasoning is basically a throwaway vote in any case. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote: care to commentate on what you provoked with me and debears? I still don't think debears has good reasons for his vote, no matter how many times he references vets or DYH trying to undermine Ace, or anything like that. Nothing...new generated from him, so right now he's still on the scummy side of things for me. As to you...mild town read based on your pursuit of this and your dislike of his votes. There's not a lot of substance yet that's come out of this though. You're pursuing something I sort of did last night, and he's answering, so far, in more or less the same way as he has been. It's more of the same, and so nothing has dropped out of the conversation yet that really triggers a reaction from me. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:22 austinmcc wrote: I still don't think debears has good reasons for his vote, no matter how many times he references vets or DYH trying to undermine Ace, or anything like that. Nothing...new generated from him, so right now he's still on the scummy side of things for me. As to you...mild town read based on your pursuit of this and your dislike of his votes. There's not a lot of substance yet that's come out of this though. You're pursuing something I sort of did last night, and he's answering, so far, in more or less the same way as he has been. It's more of the same, and so nothing has dropped out of the conversation yet that really triggers a reaction from me. I don't really agree it's more of the same. He's making post-hoc explanations that contradict his earlier ones, which he had not done previously. I'm curious you don't pick up on this. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote: Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday.Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day. So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday. I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:24 marvellosity wrote: I don't really agree it's more of the same. He's making post-hoc explanations that contradict his earlier ones, which he had not done previously. I'm curious you don't pick up on this. "made little sense for a scum to do it also" and "DI doing blah blah does make sense from a scum perspective" aren't as super-contradictory to me. The rest of his posting today, the stuff concerning vets, sheeping, Ace, all that jazz, are more of the same to me. I see less contradiction and more harping on the same stuff that I didn't like before. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote: Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday. So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday. I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not. Well, from what I gather, it's something to do with, depending on what guides he's read on TL, there are different pieces of advice written. One piece of advice in one of the guides is about how town players should never state their "Noobiness" due to the fact it won't benefit them at all. Presumably, if he had answered Debears question saying he had read that particular guide, Debears would then assume he was using the info from said guide in a mafia way. Or something along those lines. I may be wrong, and it's almost certainly easier if Debears answers it himself... | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
Frankly I don't care about further explanation from dabears regarding this whole mess. I think he's said enough. The whole exchange between dabears and DYH is ridiculous in my opinion. People don't SHEEP Ace because he's known almost exclusively for his SCUM play. I've seen him really fucking own as town, but people don't know or care about that. Ace is known as a top-tier SCUM player, and so that's the image Ace conjures. The fact that dabears is all up in arms about DYH "discrediting" Ace is nonsense...not only had Ace barely posted anything at the time, but DYH explained his motivation TWICE and dabears still didn't relent, or verily even acknowledge said explanations. Also this post rings scumbells for me. On November 30 2012 10:39 debears wrote: Actually marv I have a slight town read on you Ok guys I looked up Marv's previous games for games where he says he is town early on. He has not done in his last few games as scum. He has done it twice as town What does this mean? Something so small as saying you are town is most likely a subconscious thing. Sure, marv could have decided to do it this game, but it was right at game start. No one else had said anything like it Boom look at that pro analysis. Links in the spoiler + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=140487 Town. Here is Mario Mini Mafia, Marv does not make any mention of being town http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=239&topic_id=382922 Town. Here marv states his posting is pro town, but does not call himself town in chrono trigger http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=140487 Scum. Here marv does not state town in his scum game is GSL http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&user=140487 Scum. Death note- no mention of being town when marv is scum http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=140487 Town. States he is outright town Like...I don't know if it was meant to be a joke, but I think I know EXACTLY when marv started saying he's town at the outset of games, and it had nothing to do with his alignment at the time. Yet he's trying to pass off this post as some sort of actual analysis of marv's play? Simply by calling it analysis? Give me a break. Let's just kill it with fire, yeah? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/ Beyond debears and Ace's marv vote, did anything, or the lack of some things, interest you? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On November 30 2012 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Good stuff guys. Good, good stuff. For anyone who hasn't played with him before, Ace is going to pop in about twice or thrice a cycle. He's not going to try and lead anyone. He's also not going to FOLLOW anyone. He's going to play Mafia. If he's scum, he's going to fucking own us. If he's town, he's going to be right but will probably lose because he can't stand people not playing on his level and will lose interest. That about sum it up sir? So let's just drop the topic of Ace as he's made all of what...1 one-liner post? We'll resume discussion of the man once he throws some content up in this piece. dabears, I'm more interested in you damning DYH for having an opinion on Ace. The guy doesn't even HAVE any posts to discredit, so why are you so concerned about him trying to do so this early anyway? Do you know something I don't about Ace's alignment? That's the only thing that's jumped out at me so far - everything else is chaff and while I don't necessarily mind it, it's certainly not helping anyone find scum (happy Bugs?) I'm going to bed guys. This post does actually have a point about debears... But VisceraEyes doesn't pursue it anyhow, just points it out (like some other players did) and never speaks of it again. The rest is pretty much safe-to-say meaningless fluff. On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Truth. Something to do with pack mentality, wanting to fit in, etc. etc. Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/ A quite unnecessary and forgettable post. On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right? Everyone scared or something? Ace care to share with the class? Actually an "original" topic, but yet again safe to say and not really that productive. Feels like something Mafia might say to look like they're doing something, while actually not doing anything. I also dislike how none of his posts are connected... It's like he's posting the minimum required amount and avoiding commitment to anything. Overall, nothing decisive, but all of this leaves an uneasy feeling about VE for me. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote: Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday. So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday. I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not. Very well. My thought process Dandel said he's noob in vet game Town - Refer to Djo's first game if you know what I mean Scum - Wants town to ignore him Ok, so I thought of this: Dandel is a newish player to TL Mafia. Newish players usually read the guides. My whole "saying your noob" read is from Ver's XXX analysis. Which, thinking back, almost everyone I've played with is familiar with it On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote: Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) So, I was thinking, with Dandel being a new player, and most likely reading the guide, why would he do that as scum? Most of us would pick up on it. It'd be dumb Also, based on that, it would put him in the spotlight (even if it is just mine) See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:38 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: dabears Frankly I don't care about further explanation from dabears regarding this whole mess. I think he's said enough. The whole exchange between dabears and DYH is ridiculous in my opinion. People don't SHEEP Ace because he's known almost exclusively for his SCUM play. I've seen him really fucking own as town, but people don't know or care about that. Ace is known as a top-tier SCUM player, and so that's the image Ace conjures. The fact that dabears is all up in arms about DYH "discrediting" Ace is nonsense...not only had Ace barely posted anything at the time, but DYH explained his motivation TWICE and dabears still didn't relent, or verily even acknowledge said explanations. Also this post rings scumbells for me. Like...I don't know if it was meant to be a joke, but I think I know EXACTLY when marv started saying he's town at the outset of games, and it had nothing to do with his alignment at the time. Yet he's trying to pass off this post as some sort of actual analysis of marv's play? Simply by calling it analysis? Give me a break. Let's just kill it with fire, yeah? Hey VE. It's a trend in marv's townplay. It's called meta. You should read up on it | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote: Very well. My thought process Dandel said he's noob in vet game Town - Refer to Djo's first game if you know what I mean Scum - Wants town to ignore him Ok, so I thought of this: Dandel is a newish player to TL Mafia. Newish players usually read the guides. My whole "saying your noob" read is from Ver's XXX analysis. Which, thinking back, almost everyone I've played with is familiar with it So, I was thinking, with Dandel being a new player, and most likely reading the guide, why would he do that as scum? Most of us would pick up on it. It'd be dumb Also, based on that, it would put him in the spotlight (even if it is just mine) See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys the point is, debears, this 'town' explanation only appeared later and was not present in your mind at the time that you voted for DYH over Dandel. At the time you said there was zero town motivation and yet you moved your vote off him for spurious Ace-related reasons. | ||
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