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On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote:
See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys
No...I don't. Because this came up last night.
On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly)
Here's marv mentioning Ver's guide
On November 30 2012 11:22 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) He's not asking to be ignored. This is the chain in which Dandel Ion speaks: Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:15 Dandel Ion wrote:On November 30 2012 09:13 DarthPunk wrote:On November 30 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote. ##Vote Xatalos Wrong. He is a noob. (no offense) you can't read too much into things like that with him. I'm a noob too, and you already lynched me  So inconsistant He says he's a noob. Discrediting was DoYouHas's word I believe, but I'd argue that (1) There can be benefits to scum in lurking (2) What Dandel Ion did (making a post calling himself a noob) =/= lurking To some extent, calling yourself a noob implies that you're going to sit back and let other people do the heavy lifting. But I don't really attribute any kind of purpose to Dandel Ion's post like that, and I don't think it makes sense for scum to point out newness, because iirc every newbie guide says apologies/hiding behind newness = scum. tl;dr I think there's a difference between lurking/being passive/playing to be ignored and Dandel Ion's post.
Here's me responding, noting the same thing, that newbie guides keep talking about hiding behind newness as a scum trait.
I also have no idea why, if DI's actions didn't make sense as scum, you'd vote him, say he was scummy as shit, and maintain that point of view.
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Given my most recent post on dabears Xata, are some of your suspicions assuaged?
Dabears, meta isn't about people making specific posts as specific alignments, that shit is so fucking easy to fake.
How about YOU read up on meta and then come and talk to me about it.
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On December 01 2012 03:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote:On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote:
Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day. Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday. So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday. I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not. Very well. My thought process Dandel said he's noob in vet game Town - Refer to Djo's first game if you know what I mean Scum - Wants town to ignore him Ok, so I thought of this: Dandel is a newish player to TL Mafia. Newish players usually read the guides. My whole "saying your noob" read is from Ver's XXX analysis. Which, thinking back, almost everyone I've played with is familiar with it On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) So, I was thinking, with Dandel being a new player, and most likely reading the guide, why would he do that as scum? Most of us would pick up on it. It'd be dumb Also, based on that, it would put him in the spotlight (even if it is just mine) See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys the point is, debears, this 'town' explanation only appeared later and was not present in your mind at the time that you voted for DYH over Dandel. At the time you said there was zero town motivation and yet you moved your vote off him for spurious Ace-related reasons.
Cuz I felt like DYH scummier. I'm sorry scumreads don't come in exact percentages and that they don't stay consistent. They're feel marv. You know that. I felt DYH = scummier, so I voted for him. Enough said
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On December 01 2012 03:58 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote:
See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys No...I don't. Because this came up last night. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) Here's marv mentioning Ver's guide Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:22 austinmcc wrote:On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) He's not asking to be ignored. This is the chain in which Dandel Ion speaks: On November 30 2012 09:15 Dandel Ion wrote:On November 30 2012 09:13 DarthPunk wrote:On November 30 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote. ##Vote Xatalos Wrong. He is a noob. (no offense) you can't read too much into things like that with him. I'm a noob too, and you already lynched me So inconsistant He says he's a noob. Discrediting was DoYouHas's word I believe, but I'd argue that (1) There can be benefits to scum in lurking (2) What Dandel Ion did (making a post calling himself a noob) =/= lurking To some extent, calling yourself a noob implies that you're going to sit back and let other people do the heavy lifting. But I don't really attribute any kind of purpose to Dandel Ion's post like that, and I don't think it makes sense for scum to point out newness, because iirc every newbie guide says apologies/hiding behind newness = scum. tl;dr I think there's a difference between lurking/being passive/playing to be ignored and Dandel Ion's post. Here's me responding, noting the same thing, that newbie guides keep talking about hiding behind newness as a scum trait. I also have no idea why, if DI's actions didn't make sense as scum, you'd vote him, say he was scummy as shit, and maintain that point of view.
Cuz i rethought it. I'm not maintaining my scumread on Dandel right now. I maintained him as my top one up until the vote on DYH
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debears,
thoughts on lazermonkey and shiaopi?
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I'll be the first to say it.
I don't think Debears is mafia
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On December 01 2012 04:05 austinmcc wrote:
debears,
thoughts on lazermonkey and shiaopi?
lazer - on a quick glance thru he's not in my scummy list
shiaopi - I don't like these two posts together
On November 30 2012 23:35 ShiaoPi wrote:EBWOP: format Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 23:16 ShiaoPi wrote:
I expect sth more thought out. There must have more than just BLs strategy behind it. I expect of xata to be smarter than whathe claims to be. Lazer, why are you so intent on stopping me from questioning xata further?
On December 01 2012 00:03 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well have fun tunneling further then, cant help you.
Since xata is gone now and nobody besides lazer seems to be here I am going to bed now...
So he makes a statement "why are you trying to stop me", which to me gives off the feeling that he believes lazer is scum. Then, in the next post he does a 180, and disengages "have fun tunneling further", which to me gives off the feel that he finds lazer townie.
If he believed lazer was possibly scum trying to stop questioning, he would keep pursuing it. If he thought not, then he would disengage.
I just don't see how he went from post 1 to post 2 in 50 minutes
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On December 01 2012 04:08 Zealos wrote:
I'll be the first to say it.
I don't think Debears is mafia
Why?
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On December 01 2012 03:38 VisceraEyes wrote:##Vote: dabearsFrankly I don't care about further explanation from dabears regarding this whole mess. I think he's said enough. The whole exchange between dabears and DYH is ridiculous in my opinion. People don't SHEEP Ace because he's known almost exclusively for his SCUM play. I've seen him really fucking own as town, but people don't know or care about that. Ace is known as a top-tier SCUM player, and so that's the image Ace conjures. The fact that dabears is all up in arms about DYH "discrediting" Ace is nonsense...not only had Ace barely posted anything at the time, but DYH explained his motivation TWICE and dabears still didn't relent, or verily even acknowledge said explanations. Also this post rings scumbells for me. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 10:39 debears wrote:Actually marv I have a slight town read on you Ok guys I looked up Marv's previous games for games where he says he is town early on. He has not done in his last few games as scum. He has done it twice as town What does this mean? Something so small as saying you are town is most likely a subconscious thing. Sure, marv could have decided to do it this game, but it was right at game start. No one else had said anything like it On November 30 2012 08:01 marvellosity wrote:
Hi all.
Totes town ^^ Boom look at that pro analysis. Links in the spoiler + Show Spoiler + Like...I don't know if it was meant to be a joke, but I think I know EXACTLY when marv started saying he's town at the outset of games, and it had nothing to do with his alignment at the time. Yet he's trying to pass off this post as some sort of actual analysis of marv's play? Simply by calling it analysis? Give me a break. Let's just kill it with fire, yeah?
Hmm... How does it "ring scumbells" that debears made a far-fetched analysis about marvellosity? I just don't see the Mafia motive in that. I don't know why debears's persistence to pressure DYH is a Mafia motive either. All of this might not be optimal play, but I don't see any grand Mafia motive behind debears's play.
On December 01 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Given my most recent post on dabears Xata, are some of your suspicions assuaged?
Dabears, meta isn't about people making specific posts as specific alignments, that shit is so fucking easy to fake.
How about YOU read up on meta and then come and talk to me about it.
Well, it's always good to post real content in my eyes. Maybe some of my suspicions faded, but I still don't have a good feeling about you (sorry  ). Something about that post just feels forced... Like it were a tactical move to look better instead of actually having a beneficial effect on the thread.
I'm used to blowing things out of proportions though. I'll have to consider my vote a lot more until I can be satisfied with having catched a strongly likely Mafia.
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It rings scummbells anytime someone tries to pass off BS as actual analysis. You honestly can't see Mafia motivation for having town believe he did something worthwhile when he really didn't do anything?
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On December 01 2012 04:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
It rings scummbells anytime someone tries to pass off BS as actual analysis. You honestly can't see Mafia motivation for having town believe he did something worthwhile when he really didn't do anything?
Do you see me screaming to the rooftops about that?
No, i made one post on it.
The "look at the pro anaylsis" was sarcastic. Dude
It's a trend, and it's notable enough to give me something to work off of. Nothing major
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Xata - Let me get this straight. You've made a case on me which you immediately stopped pursuing (yet your vote is still there I would mention). You've made a case on VE without a vote or a real conclusion and you also look like you are going to drop this one as well with a parting, "I'm watching you, boy". You have given 3 townreads which are the easiest thing in the world to change your mind on. I'm finding it hard to know where you stand or what you are actually trying to do.
What bothers me the most, what I am hung up on, and what I just can't seem to drop is your response to BH's vote and then your response to my vote.
On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out!
On November 30 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote. ##Vote Xatalos
On November 30 2012 09:12 Xatalos wrote:
Maybe I underestimated the usefulness of these fluff posts. At least it beats inactivity and gives "something" to work with, opposed to an empty thread. Every little bit of info can help later on. Although nothing even nearly decisive has been said yet.
I have already pointed out how Xata's response to BH's vote is classic avoidance behavior. Town tends to get mad when someone votes them, they tend to deny, they tend to confront their accuser. Especially since it was a vet accusing a newer person, that is the kind of reaction I would expect. Then comes Xata's response to my vote: "Maybe I underestimated the usefulness of these fluff posts." AGAIN, he avoids the confrontation, he avoids saying that I am wrong. In fact, in both cases he is essentially saying that we are right, "jokingly" of course.
Later his rather weak attempts at misrepresenting my argument against him pop up.
- Accusing me of bandwagoning - My choice of voting Xata was largely based on a reaction of his after BH's vote. This brought the count of people voting Xata to 2, some bandwagon.
- Accusing me of not providing reasoning with my vote - The reasoning was there with my vote. I thought that his way of answering BH's vote was highly suspicious. The later posts simply expanded upon that.
- Accusing me of being half-hearted - Simply because I admit the possibility that what I read as scummy could also be the result of nooby uncertainty doesn't change that I think I'm right about this one.
I also dislike the number of qualifying statements he has been putting in his posts recently:
On November 30 2012 20:05 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 12:23 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why does Xatalos seem scummy but has received the most attention, but not that many votes? Right now I see DarthPunk, austinmcc and debears as the most likely townies. I would also include marvellosity, but something is bothering me. Probably it's the fact that his posts have been too vague/fluff to really contribute so far... Although I might be just extra careful, since he was my coach earlier.And WBG, why are you only asking questions? I can't say it's either townish or scummy, really, but I'd like to see your own opinions and reasoning instead of pushing the responsibility to others. Especially since it is a Mafia tactic I've used to focus on asking questions.
On December 01 2012 03:14 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:03 debears wrote:
@Xatal
I don't think the problem is giving reads so much, as long as you have good reasoning behind them.
Saying "X is town because I like his posting", for instance, not beneficial. You're follow up explaining why was good though. That's the important part Hmm, I guess so. Certainly it'd be more useful to give a town read with strong evidence backing it up. I've been in a situation where I placed a town read on the most active Mafia player and never believed he was Mafia until it was already too late. My intuition isn't infallible after all... Even so, it seems more productive to focus on those players who don't appear interested in pushing the discussion.
On December 01 2012 04:16 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Given my most recent post on dabears Xata, are some of your suspicions assuaged?
Dabears, meta isn't about people making specific posts as specific alignments, that shit is so fucking easy to fake.
How about YOU read up on meta and then come and talk to me about it. Well, it's always good to post real content in my eyes. Maybe some of my suspicions faded, but I still don't have a good feeling about you (sorry ). Something about that post just feels forced... Like it were a tactical move to look better instead of actually having a beneficial effect on the thread. I'm used to blowing things out of proportions though. I'll have to consider my vote a lot more until I can be satisfied with having catched a strongly likely Mafia.
Many of you seem to have stopped suspecting Xata because he is accepting your coaching, or because he is starting to participate more and you are uncomfortable lynching an active poster. Xatalos is certainly not a passive mafia player (Newbie Mini XV filter).
We are allowing Xata to take up a position where he is excused from multiple bad plays, suspicious behavior, and weak cases simply because some of you think he is a noob that needs to be coached instead of scum that needs to be lynched.
You are wrong, I'm fairly confident I've found scum.
Let's lynch Xatalos
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Zealos, half of your filter consists of soft defending some guys without actually saying they are town. The other half is basically you trolling in the start of the game. Who are you in fact suspicious of?
Also, as debears pointed out... On December 01 2012 04:08 Zealos wrote:
I'll be the first to say it.
I don't think Debears is mafia
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Ace - You say, "Let's get this show on the road", yet your vote on Marv without explanation isn't getting anyone to agree with you. Do you have any intention of providing an explanation? It is almost halfway through day1 and you have yet to post anything substantial. Why should I vote marv over Xatalos, who I think I have a much better case against?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often
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On December 01 2012 05:36 DoYouHas wrote:Xata - Let me get this straight. You've made a case on me which you immediately stopped pursuing (yet your vote is still there I would mention). You've made a case on VE without a vote or a real conclusion and you also look like you are going to drop this one as well with a parting, "I'm watching you, boy". You have given 3 townreads which are the easiest thing in the world to change your mind on. I'm finding it hard to know where you stand or what you are actually trying to do. What bothers me the most, what I am hung up on, and what I just can't seem to drop is your response to BH's vote and then your response to my vote. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote. ##Vote Xatalos Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:12 Xatalos wrote:
Maybe I underestimated the usefulness of these fluff posts. At least it beats inactivity and gives "something" to work with, opposed to an empty thread. Every little bit of info can help later on. Although nothing even nearly decisive has been said yet. I have already pointed out how Xata's response to BH's vote is classic avoidance behavior. Town tends to get mad when someone votes them, they tend to deny, they tend to confront their accuser. Especially since it was a vet accusing a newer person, that is the kind of reaction I would expect. Then comes Xata's response to my vote: "Maybe I underestimated the usefulness of these fluff posts." AGAIN, he avoids the confrontation, he avoids saying that I am wrong. In fact, in both cases he is essentially saying that we are right, "jokingly" of course. Later his rather weak attempts at misrepresenting my argument against him pop up. - Accusing me of bandwagoning - My choice of voting Xata was largely based on a reaction of his after BH's vote. This brought the count of people voting Xata to 2, some bandwagon. - Accusing me of not providing reasoning with my vote - The reasoning was there with my vote. I thought that his way of answering BH's vote was highly suspicious. The later posts simply expanded upon that. - Accusing me of being half-hearted - Simply because I admit the possibility that what I read as scummy could also be the result of nooby uncertainty doesn't change that I think I'm right about this one. I also dislike the number of qualifying statements he has been putting in his posts recently: Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 12:23 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why does Xatalos seem scummy but has received the most attention, but not that many votes? Right now I see DarthPunk, austinmcc and debears as the most likely townies. I would also include marvellosity, but something is bothering me. Probably it's the fact that his posts have been too vague/fluff to really contribute so far... Although I might be just extra careful, since he was my coach earlier.And WBG, why are you only asking questions? I can't say it's either townish or scummy, really, but I'd like to see your own opinions and reasoning instead of pushing the responsibility to others. Especially since it is a Mafia tactic I've used to focus on asking questions. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:14 Xatalos wrote:On December 01 2012 03:03 debears wrote:
@Xatal
I don't think the problem is giving reads so much, as long as you have good reasoning behind them.
Saying "X is town because I like his posting", for instance, not beneficial. You're follow up explaining why was good though. That's the important part Hmm, I guess so. Certainly it'd be more useful to give a town read with strong evidence backing it up. I've been in a situation where I placed a town read on the most active Mafia player and never believed he was Mafia until it was already too late. My intuition isn't infallible after all... Even so, it seems more productive to focus on those players who don't appear interested in pushing the discussion. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 04:16 Xatalos wrote:On December 01 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Given my most recent post on dabears Xata, are some of your suspicions assuaged?
Dabears, meta isn't about people making specific posts as specific alignments, that shit is so fucking easy to fake.
How about YOU read up on meta and then come and talk to me about it. Well, it's always good to post real content in my eyes. Maybe some of my suspicions faded, but I still don't have a good feeling about you (sorry ). Something about that post just feels forced... Like it were a tactical move to look better instead of actually having a beneficial effect on the thread. I'm used to blowing things out of proportions though. I'll have to consider my vote a lot more until I can be satisfied with having catched a strongly likely Mafia. Many of you seem to have stopped suspecting Xata because he is accepting your coaching, or because he is starting to participate more and you are uncomfortable lynching an active poster. Xatalos is certainly not a passive mafia player (Newbie Mini XV filter). We are allowing Xata to take up a position where he is excused from multiple bad plays, suspicious behavior, and weak cases simply because some of you think he is a noob that needs to be coached instead of scum that needs to be lynched. You are wrong, I'm fairly confident I've found scum. Let's lynch Xatalos
At the moment I don't have a strong lynch candidate. That being the case, I haven't touched my vote for some time. You're right that it's still for you, but right now I would rather lynch VisceraEyes. Especially comparing your and his recent posts I'd say VisceraEyes is more likely Mafia. VE's vote for debears was the most bandwagony (= scummy) vote so far, but this case you present against me doesn't strike me as a Mafia play. Since my vote is clearly bothering you, I can change it immediately.
##Unvote
##Vote VisceraEyes
"Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out!"
Really... This is a big problem for you? Blazinghand's vote for me was clearly a troll and I responded to it with a troll post. I would normally have just ignored it, but the thread was full of trolling - I decided to make one joke post as well. I can't see at all why you would tunnel on a meaningless joke and base your suspicions around that. What should I say to you? There's no reasoning behind that post. You could just remove it from the thread (BH's votepost as well, in truth) and nothing of any importance would change. I didn't "avoid confrontation" by not responding to your "Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote". To be honest, I didn't even know if you were being serious. I hope that matter is now put into rest, since it's just a big waste of time arguing about it.
I guess you're right about the part where I call you "bandwagony". I just looked at it this way:
1) Player A votes for me
2) Player B eagerly votes for me soon after without a real reason
That just made me automatically think bandwagoning=scummy=lynch? But really, it's more a case of misunderstandings on both ends. You started suspecting me after that stupid post (for some reason) and I started suspecting you of bandwagoning (even though BH never even tried to get me lynched and it was only you who pursued my suspiciousness). So it's safe to say that you're no bandwagoner...
I think it was wrong to call you "half-hearted" as well. It's starting to feel more like you're *overzealous* over something as petty as a troll one-liner. I have no idea how it got to the point where I'm confidently scum in your mind, but if this response didn't appease your zeal, I'm not sure what to think. Could Mafia really be so persistent and careless? I have some difficulty imagining that right now. I find it much more likely that Mafia would carefully wait for opportunities rather than push the discussion to a certain direction persistently.
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On December 01 2012 07:20 marvellosity wrote:
jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often
You actually think I'm Mafia at the moment? How did that case of DYH convince you of anything?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
xata, have you played town other than newbie viii? coz i can't find one
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 01 2012 07:24 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 07:20 marvellosity wrote:
jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often You actually think I'm Mafia at the moment? How did that case of DYH convince you of anything?
the insane number of qualifiers you use that i saw some times in that scum filter and not at all in your town filter that i found.
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Here's my history:
Game of Thrones - Mafia - Win
Newbie Mini VII - Town - Loss
Newbie Mini XV - Mafia - Win
Newbie Mini XXVI - Mafia - Loss
Yeah, I've played a lot as Mafia. That's why I'm trying to develop myself as a town player, even though it's not working very well so far......
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EPT
