EPT1
On November 24 2012 04:59 goodkarma wrote:
Yes, it had solely to do with his roleclaim. I maintain what I said in the earlier post, but what makes him a town read for me is how absolutely stupid it would be for him to fakeclaim frog (of all people) as scum. Scum would have to fear a counter-claim, and as a newbie scum I'm very skeptical he'd have made such a move on his own.
Yes, it had solely to do with his roleclaim. I maintain what I said in the earlier post, but what makes him a town read for me is how absolutely stupid it would be for him to fakeclaim frog (of all people) as scum. Scum would have to fear a counter-claim, and as a newbie scum I'm very skeptical he'd have made such a move on his own.
I highly suspect not all party members are present, in order to give scum some safe fakeclaims. How did this not cross your mind, especially as Kita had already brought it up early in the game?
Getting an inkling of a non-town mindset from this justification, as I would always suspect scum safeclaims. Please expand how simply claiming "Frog" allowed you to go from suspecting that he was deliberately shitting up the thread to one of your strongest town reads. At best this seems gullible, at worst a scum justification.
2
D2 scumhunting. No real questions here, but more a general observation.
GK seems to be taking the easy way out on a number of occasions. Most specifically I find his behaviour regarding Sandroba and Toad puzzling:
There's two reasonable justifications for his behaviour re: Sandroba. The first is that GK is town, wanted Sandroba to prove he was town and that ultimately never happened. The second is that he parked his vote on a bus, but really didn't want to bus. A suspicious mind definitely sees the latter shining through in the tone of GK's posts:
+ Show Spoiler [GK on Sandroba] +
On November 24 2012 05:39 goodkarma wrote:
@Z-Boson:
Long story short I was starting a writeup on my thoughts on TheChronicler. I was going to state something along the lines of "Making contradictions isn't something that only scum does, and is not inherantly a scumtell." This may still ring true, but I'm going to take a closer look before this is my conclusive answer. He seems to be piling on more stuff that leads me to stop and think, such as his latest quote:
Wat?
But you can definitely expect from me a more definitive look at whether I think he is scum, and for me to list my top scum suspect tonight. I know my vote right now is on Sandroba, but given my unfamiliarity with his meta I can't really say it's anything other than a pressure vote on a lurker... You can expect it will probably change.
@Z-Boson:
Long story short I was starting a writeup on my thoughts on TheChronicler. I was going to state something along the lines of "Making contradictions isn't something that only scum does, and is not inherantly a scumtell." This may still ring true, but I'm going to take a closer look before this is my conclusive answer. He seems to be piling on more stuff that leads me to stop and think, such as his latest quote:
Wat?
But you can definitely expect from me a more definitive look at whether I think he is scum, and for me to list my top scum suspect tonight. I know my vote right now is on Sandroba, but given my unfamiliarity with his meta I can't really say it's anything other than a pressure vote on a lurker... You can expect it will probably change.
I find this especially damning because earlier on he wanted Sandroba on his party, because the few posts Sandro had made gave him a strong town read. While I will not underestimate Syllo's influence in this lynch, I do not get the feeling from this post that GK even cares about discovering Sandroba's true alignment.
On November 24 2012 13:34 goodkarma wrote:
I can understand the excuses that Sandroba has provided, but I find the complete lack of followup on who he would consider a prime scum suspect to be disturbing. It's as though he is holding back, maybe... because he's scum, and as scum making up even a half-baked scumread is hard for him. I would really like to see him take some initiative and actually help town out. He continues to fail to deliver in this department, which would leave me to believe that his complete apathy and lack of involvement in this game is indeed scum-driven.
I will keep my vote on Sandroba for the time being. Syllo has all but proven himself to be town at this point, and I will change my vote from Sandroba only if he somehow believes he isn't scum after his latest post. This only because I don't feel my scumread on Sandroba is strong enough without the reaffirmation. And yes, sheeping makes me a hypotwit...
I am going to now focus my attention on TheChronicler and Kitaman
I can understand the excuses that Sandroba has provided, but I find the complete lack of followup on who he would consider a prime scum suspect to be disturbing. It's as though he is holding back, maybe... because he's scum, and as scum making up even a half-baked scumread is hard for him. I would really like to see him take some initiative and actually help town out. He continues to fail to deliver in this department, which would leave me to believe that his complete apathy and lack of involvement in this game is indeed scum-driven.
I will keep my vote on Sandroba for the time being. Syllo has all but proven himself to be town at this point, and I will change my vote from Sandroba only if he somehow believes he isn't scum after his latest post. This only because I don't feel my scumread on Sandroba is strong enough without the reaffirmation. And yes, sheeping makes me a hypotwit...
I am going to now focus my attention on TheChronicler and Kitaman
This is just incredibly disingenious and an insult to Sandroba. I know I've said this before, but I cannot believe a relatively new player like GK can honestly think this. Once again, it seems like an invented justification, rather than a sincere thought.
Regarding Toad: I do not get the feeling GK is trying to discover Toad's alignment. He is willfully ignoring the main point of the case. I am having a hard time deciding whether this is indicative of alignment due to my own involvement at this point. However, I don't see any reasons in his filter for thinking Sandroba is more likely to flip scum. I just see reasons for not switching the vote. This makes sense from a scum viewpoint if Toad does indeed flip scum (which I do not doubt he will): better to stick with the wagon you've already supported and look decisive in your bus.
At the end of the ordeal I don't feel GK has been particularly decisive in the vote. It could be a scumster hoping for a way out and never being offered one (although he declined the Chronicler lynch). The alternate explanation is a townie who is not too convinced in his own reads and prefers to sheep Syllo than me. This is the way he eventually justifies his vote, and I find that an acceptable explanation. However, the lack of conviction is something that troubles me a lot. The last-minute switch to Toad because of a modkill tells me absolutely nothing.
Finally, there is this:
On November 25 2012 05:49 goodkarma wrote:
This is a good point, but it's not like Sandro has been perma-afk or anything. He has been incredibly inactive, but when he has been here he has had nothing to contribute except in defense of himself. This has been brought up before, but it is the same kind of scumtell as you're using for the case against Toad.
I won't be upset if Toad is lynched. However, that syllo is on Sandro, and I know that syllo is town, is enough to tip the scales in favor of lynching sandro for me.
This is a good point, but it's not like Sandro has been perma-afk or anything. He has been incredibly inactive, but when he has been here he has had nothing to contribute except in defense of himself. This has been brought up before, but it is the same kind of scumtell as you're using for the case against Toad.
I won't be upset if Toad is lynched. However, that syllo is on Sandro, and I know that syllo is town, is enough to tip the scales in favor of lynching sandro for me.
Scumslip? Or a townie just being far too confident in his town read? This has been pointed out by Keirathi at the time and the response was what I would expect. In general, I find this type of "scumslip" to be bad tells: townies screw this up way too often for it to be reliable.
3
During D3 you were advocating coordinating kill actions, in order to take out scum:
+ Show Spoiler [coordinate shots] +
On November 26 2012 14:10 goodkarma wrote:
I'm like 12 pages behind right now, and catching up. I figured I'd bring this particular quote up right now.
Assuming everyone has HP similar to the two players that have flipped, several of the claimed damaging abilities are nowhere close to enough to kill off a player. As such, it would be worth coordinating a target that all of us devote our efforts toward for this night and all future nights. I'm under the impression that it's highly unlikely scum have a second busser, so even if scum know what's coming I doubt there's much they could do about it.
What does everyone think?
I'm like 12 pages behind right now, and catching up. I figured I'd bring this particular quote up right now.
Assuming everyone has HP similar to the two players that have flipped, several of the claimed damaging abilities are nowhere close to enough to kill off a player. As such, it would be worth coordinating a target that all of us devote our efforts toward for this night and all future nights. I'm under the impression that it's highly unlikely scum have a second busser, so even if scum know what's coming I doubt there's much they could do about it.
What does everyone think?
On November 26 2012 14:59 goodkarma wrote:
@Acro:
What do you think of this plan for coordinating vigi shots? Since so far it looks like no one is going to die without multiple people shooting him, it would make sense for us to more actively discuss who is shot each night in addition to scumreads, no?
@Acro:
What do you think of this plan for coordinating vigi shots? Since so far it looks like no one is going to die without multiple people shooting him, it would make sense for us to more actively discuss who is shot each night in addition to scumreads, no?
Yet at the end of the day you advocate the exact opposite approach. What changed your mind?
+ Show Spoiler [don't shoot toad] +
On November 26 2012 23:56 goodkarma wrote:
So you're claiming a vigi role? All right...
I would say that Toad is a low priority target, as in, please don't shoot him. From the two flips we've seen, and based off the abilities that have claimed that can do damage, there is no reason to think we could one-shot Toad. So targeting people we won't be able to get to lynch anytime soon is definitely a better option.
Now to be a bit of a pessimist: There's a reason that people lurk. Maybe they're busy, or maybe they just don't give a shit about this game. Whatever the reason, I wouldn't expect vigis this game to motivate them to change their gameplay. Especially with an uncoordinated assault against multiple lurkers that will take multiple turns to have any chance at killing someone...
I have one question for you:
If you could narrow the lurker field down to 2-3 targets, who would you propose that town target and why?
So you're claiming a vigi role? All right...
I would say that Toad is a low priority target, as in, please don't shoot him. From the two flips we've seen, and based off the abilities that have claimed that can do damage, there is no reason to think we could one-shot Toad. So targeting people we won't be able to get to lynch anytime soon is definitely a better option.
Now to be a bit of a pessimist: There's a reason that people lurk. Maybe they're busy, or maybe they just don't give a shit about this game. Whatever the reason, I wouldn't expect vigis this game to motivate them to change their gameplay. Especially with an uncoordinated assault against multiple lurkers that will take multiple turns to have any chance at killing someone...
I have one question for you:
If you could narrow the lurker field down to 2-3 targets, who would you propose that town target and why?
4
Lack of scumhunting. GK pretty much breezes through days 3 and 4 without doing any serious scumhunting. While this is somewhat justified by the lack of a lynch and the confirmation of Toad as scum, it is definitely not winning him any townie points on my scumometer. His defense of Prom seems genuine and well thought-out. However, his defense of H1 does not.
This is the FIRST mention of either SnB or H1 in GK's filter ALL GAME:
On November 28 2012 08:01 goodkarma wrote:
This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious...
This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious...
And immediately afterwards:
On November 28 2012 08:12 goodkarma wrote:
@Djo:
While you're here:
StrongandBig is scum. Please discuss.
@Djo:
While you're here:
StrongandBig is scum. Please discuss.
Whence came this extremely strong scumread on SnB? Why was he never mentioned before? More importantly, why the town read on H1? You said yourself that we needed to figure out who was scum between TC, H1 and myself. Why the town read on H1? Even with my 3P claim, there seems to be no justification. I asked for clarification at the time and got no response. I'll just ask again: explain your town read on H1.
4
The list post. I actually like him backing down off SnB. Deluded townies going apeshit happens.
However the list post...
I don't actually mind list posts when done properly. However, this list is full of NULL reads and things that say you point to town without explaining ANY of it. It is so easy to fake this as scum, that it makes red flags appear all over the place. Redo your list post, this time explaining why you have the read you have. Also, explain your read on risk.nuke: imho the most notable absentee from that list. Your QT has been blown wide open, so you can explain it now.My conclusions so far
I am getting a very marginal town read on GK. It's perfectly possible that between Keir and me the party failed. That makes GK an unfortunate casualty. The way he has been playing is definitely not strong town, and I really want to see him step it up, but I don't get a clear scum vibe from him either. There are, imho, scummier candidates who could serve as the "second" lynch target. GK: please answer the questions all the same. Explaining your thought process can only help you, if you are in fact town.
