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Yeah, I remember that post. I figured they were all fairly honest points. I have explained my reasoning for both the check claim: what was the point without a lynch? I also don't think it would have been any more convincing. I was already well on the case against Toad. Claiming a 1-shot DT check confirming him as scum would only have made the him vs. me dichotomy worse... and allowing Toad to capitalize on hypnotoad ability to completely shit up a thread.
You should, however, see that my behaviour towards TC flipped 180 degrees after that claim. During D2 I was pressuring him pretty hard about his inconsistent behaviour. At the end of D2 I concluded this about his behaviour:
On November 25 2012 03:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 03:23 TheChronicler wrote:On November 25 2012 03:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 02:20 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 19:53 Acrofales wrote:
TheChronicler
I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards.
1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads.
2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either.
2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town.
3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right.
4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game.
Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads.
Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes. Okay, moving on. I cannot fathom why you voted Syllo. Please explain it again. From my point of view: you think chance of success at the event is very small. You don't think Syllo can actually read townies, so it's like flipping a coin whether we succeed or not. All you hope to obtain from the event is information and Syllo offers you the least of it. Why vote Syllo, with as reason that CJ is opposed to Syllo. Rather than Hapa, Kita, Toad or Sandroba, who were all giving information about why they were picking their team, which insofar as I understand you, equates to more information. How did the others give more information? Every candidate's thing was "we pick town reads". Who cares if someone's reads are invisible until after event. That has no impact on the information we end up with. Cj's nonsense pushed me to a sylo vote, and that's pretty much it. I give up. You keep contradicting yourself. I don't know what to make of it. I see it as scum, but apparently I am the only one (or one of the few). Trying to figure out how your brain works is about as useful as trying to figure out Kush. The only way to make sense of you is through meta and you are deliberately withholding that. I am done talking to you. Marv, Syllo, Toad, Kita, Sand: you guys really don't get scum vibes from this guy? He has not held his story straight once. Now I know inconsistency is not a scum trait, but it makes it impossible to determine the motivation behind the actions, and the only reason I can think of wanting to do that is for scum.
D3 the first time I mention him is:
On November 25 2012 11:05 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 10:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
Chronicler.
Hmm is there a scum reason for doing this?
YES THERE IS. Toad was under pressure last cycle, chronicler was also under pressure. So fake a 'dt' check and BAM TOAD IS SCUM There is no doubt in my mind that the man is telling the truth. Lay off him.
I don't think I could have made it any clearer that I had some information that corroborated his claim. People are just so fucking terrible at taking hints in this game, though. People continued to doubt the claim. Toad counterclaimed. I tried the "I'm certain you're lying approach", but he wouldn't shut up. I felt the only way of putting the argument to rest was to provide the full information. I wanted the coffin nailed tightly shut, you will notice that he was contesting the claim at first. Since the second check he vanished from the thread completely. Pretty much the effect I wanted to get from Toad. Imagine LI, but with an unknown, but > 48 hours before we would be able to kill Toad. Shit dude, that's scary.
Regarding my not wanting to be in the party: I believe I have explained that adequately?
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On November 28 2012 04:24 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 04:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw Kei, do you agree with me on Acro or not (regarding mafia motivation for his case on Toad)? Occam's Razor says yes, you are right. I could make other assessments, but I don't feel like they are particularly super likely, nor constructive. But his claim with the assumption that someone is "hunting" him just doesn't make sense.
The assumption is based on setup speculation. Survivors are not fun unless there is a risk of NOT surviving. That risk cannot come purely from scum or town, because then there is the possibility of simply claiming D1 and going afk. That risk could come from an SK, who has to kill everybody before some other faction wins. In that case my claim made no difference. I also think SK in this setup is probably an unwinnable role, so I dismissed that. That leaves the threat of someone who has to kill me. Whether that person actually exists or not? I dunno. But the possibility is enough to make me not want to claim my name.
I don't think I increased the risk by claiming 3P, because I was already pretty much outed. If you have the wincon to kill someone you expect is 3P, you are extra-hyper-alert to that kinda thing. Therefore when Djodref blatantly throws it out there and people agree with him, you can bet your ass whoever may or may not be after me was already gunning for me.
The fact that I took no damage last night is actually an indicator that nobody is after me. I thought it was already fairly obvious by my behaviour towards Keirathi that I was 3P. I'm still not gonna risk it, though.
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On November 28 2012 04:50 Clarity_nl wrote:
I have had time to read up on TC and I agree with Dieno that he would probably be the best 4th pick right now, despite some terrible plays this game.
This makes my party identical to that of Dieno's, unfortunately, so the only thing I have to run on is the fact that iamp more than likely healed me up to full, so any item given to me will be better than having it on Dieno.
If anyone disagrees with this I would love an explanation, but until such time I expect your votes.
My vote is fine where it is. I don't care which one of you, Dieno or Keirathi leads the party. I also don't think there's a significant difference between giving you, Dieno or Keirathi the item. Therefore my vote is fine where it is.
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On November 28 2012 04:54 TheChronicler wrote:
I'm an idiot.
I'll bite: why?
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On November 28 2012 04:56 Clarity_nl wrote:
Except for the fact that we know Dieno took a boatload of damage already.
Ok. My vote is on Keir, though.
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On November 28 2012 04:59 syllogism wrote:
Looking back, the seeming "difficulty" in finding townies on day 1 might just have been due to there being many really towny players who were, in fact, town. I had too many town reads and was starting to second guess myself based on everyone being town.
It's comforting to be in a game where the majority of people are actually able to play the game decently, isn't it? You missing people like Grush? 
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Make sense already. Did you use the funnel cake on Marv? If so, why does that make you an idiot? If not, why does that make you an idiot?
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On November 28 2012 05:48 TheChronicler wrote:
Alrighty well unless Keir comes in with something that says why he needs the reward I don't see a way for Die to get his sword repaired other than the reward.
##unvote
##vote: Dienosore
In the game there's an entire questline devoted to fixing the sword. I suspect that if we wait long enough, we'll get Melchior to fix it. I don't know why the party and the sword are related.
Dieno, do you get the feeling you should do something to fix it? Or just wait around til the game fixes it for you?
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On November 28 2012 05:50 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 05:45 TheChronicler wrote:On November 28 2012 05:43 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 28 2012 05:28 Acrofales wrote:
Make sense already. Did you use the funnel cake on Marv? If so, why does that make you an idiot? If not, why does that make you an idiot? Neither of you seem to be talking so, why was putting a shield on marv a bad idea? I don't think it was. @ TCYou... realize you didn't post anything, right? I meant that as far as scum was concerned my shield could have been on anybody. I forgot I hadn't said who my target was. Ehhh, but scum didn't know marv's hp. It was still a good shield target though, I'm curious was Acro is trying to say.
That I didn't understand what he was getting at.
I think you're misunderstanding TC: he is saying that he could have left it unknown that scum had already burned through the shield. Now scum know they don't have to worry about it.
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On November 28 2012 05:46 Promethelax wrote:
I plan on targeting a member of the party or the party leader with my first ability tonight. I will not reveal my target so that mafia is forced to claim their roleblocks.
Why does this force mafia to claim roleblocks?
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On November 28 2012 08:01 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 07:24 strongandbig wrote:hey guys just caught up with teh threadzor so correct me if i'm wrong but we're picking dienosore to be party leader because he might get masamune? keirathi do you think it would help you at all to be the party leader instead of a party follower? also i think that hopeless is scum even though it turns out acro is 3p - some of the things that hopeless has done since being checked seem to me like scum in desperation like the whole thing about being on a party - this and hapa's thing and the chronicler all have done it - like i said to hapa before, i'm suspicious of anyone who says "put me in the party" instead of just relying on their townieness to be self-evident or whatever, because scum might have more information than we do and they might be starting to really want us to fail a mission some other stuff: On November 27 2012 12:49 Hopeless1der wrote:I think we've decided that our Party leader is going to be one of our previous party members. Oats cannot lead. That leaves: - Syllogism
- Keirathi
- Dienosore
- Clarity_nl
This could very well be the party that runs today's event. Only one of Dienosore and Oatsmaster can be on the party due to setup restrictions. Oatsmaster and Syllogism have already led a party before and have items to show for it. I believe the leaders receive an item upon a successful mission completion. Either we try to pool resources to one player (i.e. syllo today) or we divvy up the spoils among as many players as possible while maintaining a successful party. I don't like the idea of powering up one player for a number of reasons: Scum might be able to steal items Items may be lost upon death The player may in fact be scum I'd prefer syllo and oats not be in the party at all because they currently hold items, but if we can't identify a 4th for the team, I'd pick dieno over oats and have syllo step in to fill the last spot. My choice for party leader is one of Keir, Dieno and Clarity. As I've already stated, I'd like to be included in the party. If any of them are inclined to give me the 4th spot, I'd be delighted and they will receive my vote. In the meantime, I'm fine sheeping the current votelead on Keir. ##Vote: KeirathiAlso, I hereby state that I won't put a last-minute voteswitch onto Toad today, in case anyone suspects shenanigans. like, seriously - what is the point of saying that last bit... then there's the fact that his response to a red check from tc was "bring it bitches" like, he answers the whole case point by point and then he doesn't address the check itself... tc's long case post was actually pretty bad, but after hopeless went through the case and answered it point by point, instead of actually addressing the dt check, he's just like "bring it" - that doesn't feel very town to me then there's this "im untargetable tonight" thing. i don't understand what he's trying to head off here - townies would use negative abilities on toad, and scum would use negative abilities on pretty much anyone other than h1 or toad. the only thing that seems likely to hit h1 is maybe another dt check, so i don't see how him making himself untargetable or telling us he's untargetable are helpful to town This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious...
You feel like soft-defending H1? How about you hard-defend him instead. What the hell has h1 done that is in ANY way REMOTELY in town's best interest?
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On November 28 2012 09:11 GreYMisT wrote:4
10
12
14
11
15
10
Remove the first 10 and it makes sense. +2 -3 +4 -5. Next one should be at 24:00 KST.
Still don't ask me what the fuck this means, though.
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On November 28 2012 09:26 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 09:20 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 08:01 goodkarma wrote:On November 28 2012 07:24 strongandbig wrote:hey guys just caught up with teh threadzor so correct me if i'm wrong but we're picking dienosore to be party leader because he might get masamune? keirathi do you think it would help you at all to be the party leader instead of a party follower? also i think that hopeless is scum even though it turns out acro is 3p - some of the things that hopeless has done since being checked seem to me like scum in desperation like the whole thing about being on a party - this and hapa's thing and the chronicler all have done it - like i said to hapa before, i'm suspicious of anyone who says "put me in the party" instead of just relying on their townieness to be self-evident or whatever, because scum might have more information than we do and they might be starting to really want us to fail a mission some other stuff: On November 27 2012 12:49 Hopeless1der wrote:I think we've decided that our Party leader is going to be one of our previous party members. Oats cannot lead. That leaves: - Syllogism
- Keirathi
- Dienosore
- Clarity_nl
This could very well be the party that runs today's event. Only one of Dienosore and Oatsmaster can be on the party due to setup restrictions. Oatsmaster and Syllogism have already led a party before and have items to show for it. I believe the leaders receive an item upon a successful mission completion. Either we try to pool resources to one player (i.e. syllo today) or we divvy up the spoils among as many players as possible while maintaining a successful party. I don't like the idea of powering up one player for a number of reasons: Scum might be able to steal items Items may be lost upon death The player may in fact be scum I'd prefer syllo and oats not be in the party at all because they currently hold items, but if we can't identify a 4th for the team, I'd pick dieno over oats and have syllo step in to fill the last spot. My choice for party leader is one of Keir, Dieno and Clarity. As I've already stated, I'd like to be included in the party. If any of them are inclined to give me the 4th spot, I'd be delighted and they will receive my vote. In the meantime, I'm fine sheeping the current votelead on Keir. ##Vote: KeirathiAlso, I hereby state that I won't put a last-minute voteswitch onto Toad today, in case anyone suspects shenanigans. like, seriously - what is the point of saying that last bit... then there's the fact that his response to a red check from tc was "bring it bitches" like, he answers the whole case point by point and then he doesn't address the check itself... tc's long case post was actually pretty bad, but after hopeless went through the case and answered it point by point, instead of actually addressing the dt check, he's just like "bring it" - that doesn't feel very town to me then there's this "im untargetable tonight" thing. i don't understand what he's trying to head off here - townies would use negative abilities on toad, and scum would use negative abilities on pretty much anyone other than h1 or toad. the only thing that seems likely to hit h1 is maybe another dt check, so i don't see how him making himself untargetable or telling us he's untargetable are helpful to town This case is pretty bad. The singlemindedness with which you push hopeless without any thought for how he could have town motivations for his actions is pretty suspicious... You feel like soft-defending H1? How about you hard-defend him instead. What the hell has h1 done that is in ANY way REMOTELY in town's best interest? So apparently pro-town = town, and anti-town = scum??? O.O
Dafuq you talking about. You attack SnB over having a bad case. While I don't find his case particularly convincing, I don't see any motivation for your soft defense of H1. Enlighten us.
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Nvm, I'm a derp. Number 3 should be at 01:00 KST.
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On November 28 2012 09:32 strongandbig wrote:
i wasn't really trying to make a whole case
it's just that the way hopeless responded to having a red check on him (back when a lot of people thought acro was town) didn't seem to me like how a townie would respond
Agreed. I made that case already. I do admit that it came in the middle of my drunk spamming spree, so I don't blame anybody for missing it:
On November 27 2012 09:49 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 09:32 Hopeless1der wrote:
TC has claimed Acro and I are opposite alignments. AT LEAST one of them is scum to me. I think its more likely to be Acro. I know we don't want to lose the event and that I'm probably considered more likely to be scum than TC or Acro, but I'd like to be on the party for the sake of "proving" I'm town. Dafuq? Like seriously. DAFUQ? I cannot get my head around how mindblowingly stupid this post is. 1. OPPOSITE alignment. Unless you have reason to believe there are 2 scumteams, that means 1 of us is town, the other scum OR 1 of us is town, the other 3rd party, OR 1 of us is scum and the other 3rd party. It *might* be possible for 2 third parties to be considered "opposite alignment". No clue on the specifics there. So no, there is AT MOST 1 scum between you and me. For the record, that scum is you. 2. You think? Really? I KNOW I'm not scum. I don't have to "think that it may perhaps be slightly more likely that I am not scum", because I fucking know it. This overly cautious phrasing is you claiming scum, because you cannot figure out a town mindset. 3. Yeah, trolololol. Lets fail the event, because Hopeless1derp wants to "prove" he's town. Once again, thinking like a townie? Failed. Miserably I might add. Verdict: scumPS. The failure to think like a townie is what I caught this guy on in Acme, so it even fits his meta.
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I see I kinda fubar'd it up too. My point was: the post is way too carefully phrased to be a townie who thinks he was framed or I were scum. Seeing that check as a townie, the first thing that would come to my mind is "Hopeless1der is scum". Lets yell that as loud as I can. What we CAN see from H1's post is that he does NOT consider 3p, therefore he *should* be yelling this at the top of his lungs.
A simple: ok, TC, your check means Acro is scum or I was framed. The very lack of that is just extremely telling. Combine that with all the overly careful wording and we have a scum who cannot for the life of him imagine how a townie would react and posts this drivel instead.
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##kill Azala
##kill Black Tyrannosaur
Lets hope one of these works.
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On November 28 2012 09:42 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 09:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 09:32 strongandbig wrote:
i wasn't really trying to make a whole case
it's just that the way hopeless responded to having a red check on him (back when a lot of people thought acro was town) didn't seem to me like how a townie would respond Agreed. I made that case already. I do admit that it came in the middle of my drunk spamming spree, so I don't blame anybody for missing it: On November 27 2012 09:49 Acrofales wrote:On November 27 2012 09:32 Hopeless1der wrote:
TC has claimed Acro and I are opposite alignments. AT LEAST one of them is scum to me. I think its more likely to be Acro. I know we don't want to lose the event and that I'm probably considered more likely to be scum than TC or Acro, but I'd like to be on the party for the sake of "proving" I'm town. Dafuq? Like seriously. DAFUQ? I cannot get my head around how mindblowingly stupid this post is. 1. OPPOSITE alignment. Unless you have reason to believe there are 2 scumteams, that means 1 of us is town, the other scum OR 1 of us is town, the other 3rd party, OR 1 of us is scum and the other 3rd party. It *might* be possible for 2 third parties to be considered "opposite alignment". No clue on the specifics there. So no, there is AT MOST 1 scum between you and me. For the record, that scum is you. 2. You think? Really? I KNOW I'm not scum. I don't have to "think that it may perhaps be slightly more likely that I am not scum", because I fucking know it. This overly cautious phrasing is you claiming scum, because you cannot figure out a town mindset. 3. Yeah, trolololol. Lets fail the event, because Hopeless1derp wants to "prove" he's town. Once again, thinking like a townie? Failed. Miserably I might add. Verdict: scumPS. The failure to think like a townie is what I caught this guy on in Acme, so it even fits his meta. You were drunk when you posted that? No wonder your reading comprehension skills were so bad
My managing to properly express my thoughts was a bit of a failure, but fairly certain I got the reading part spot on.
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On November 28 2012 09:46 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 09:42 Acrofales wrote:
I see I kinda fubar'd it up too. My point was: the post is way too carefully phrased to be a townie who thinks he was framed or I were scum. Seeing that check as a townie, the first thing that would come to my mind is "Hopeless1der is scum". Lets yell that as loud as I can. What we CAN see from H1's post is that he does NOT consider 3p, therefore he *should* be yelling this at the top of his lungs.
A simple: ok, TC, your check means Acro is scum or I was framed. The very lack of that is just extremely telling. Combine that with all the overly careful wording and we have a scum who cannot for the life of him imagine how a townie would react and posts this drivel instead. The way I read his post is "So, TC has a parity check on me and Acro. Either TC is lying about his check and is scum, or Acro is scum." That seems like a pretty reasonable attitude to me. There are tons of other things in Hopeless' filter that point to the possibility of him being scum, but I don't think that is it.
You don't find the utter lack of conviction in that post at all suspicious?
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On November 28 2012 09:48 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 09:45 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 09:42 Keirathi wrote:On November 28 2012 09:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 09:32 strongandbig wrote:
i wasn't really trying to make a whole case
it's just that the way hopeless responded to having a red check on him (back when a lot of people thought acro was town) didn't seem to me like how a townie would respond Agreed. I made that case already. I do admit that it came in the middle of my drunk spamming spree, so I don't blame anybody for missing it: On November 27 2012 09:49 Acrofales wrote:On November 27 2012 09:32 Hopeless1der wrote:
TC has claimed Acro and I are opposite alignments. AT LEAST one of them is scum to me. I think its more likely to be Acro. I know we don't want to lose the event and that I'm probably considered more likely to be scum than TC or Acro, but I'd like to be on the party for the sake of "proving" I'm town. Dafuq? Like seriously. DAFUQ? I cannot get my head around how mindblowingly stupid this post is. 1. OPPOSITE alignment. Unless you have reason to believe there are 2 scumteams, that means 1 of us is town, the other scum OR 1 of us is town, the other 3rd party, OR 1 of us is scum and the other 3rd party. It *might* be possible for 2 third parties to be considered "opposite alignment". No clue on the specifics there. So no, there is AT MOST 1 scum between you and me. For the record, that scum is you. 2. You think? Really? I KNOW I'm not scum. I don't have to "think that it may perhaps be slightly more likely that I am not scum", because I fucking know it. This overly cautious phrasing is you claiming scum, because you cannot figure out a town mindset. 3. Yeah, trolololol. Lets fail the event, because Hopeless1derp wants to "prove" he's town. Once again, thinking like a townie? Failed. Miserably I might add. Verdict: scumPS. The failure to think like a townie is what I caught this guy on in Acme, so it even fits his meta. You were drunk when you posted that? No wonder your reading comprehension skills were so bad My managing to properly express my thoughts was a bit of a failure, but fairly certain I got the reading part spot on. My point is, a big part of your post calling his response out was how you seemed to think he said "One of us is scum" when it actuality he said "One of THEM is scum", meaning you or TC.
Ahhhh. I may have been missing that because I had a very strong town read on TC from the Toad check. I g
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EPT
