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@Debears
While I appreciate the defense, I think people have made up their minds on me for the most part. I'm that guy that spearheaded the lynch on the venerable Djodref----Inig said himself that he wants to "continue the legacy of Djo" by voting me or following whatever the hell Nack wants to do.
Speaking of which, it seems like Nack has the lurkers (or at least Inig) around his little finger if I'm not mistaken. Inig even explicitly calls Nack town "bringing down the hammer of judgement on mafia". How is he so sure Nack is even town? I find it odd that both the lurkers come out of hiding to suddenly and unquestionably listen to this guy (by voting) and that Inig puts a firm townie stamp on his head. Doesn't make any sense to me.
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On November 01 2012 10:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Debears
While I appreciate the defense, I think people have made up their minds on me for the most part. I'm that guy that spearheaded the lynch on the venerable Djodref----Inig said himself that he wants to "continue the legacy of Djo" by voting me or following whatever the hell Nack wants to do.
Speaking of which, it seems like Nack has the lurkers (or at least Inig) around his little finger if I'm not mistaken. Inig even explicitly calls Nack town "bringing down the hammer of judgement on mafia". How is he so sure Nack is even town? I find it odd that both the lurkers come out of hiding to suddenly and unquestionably listen to this guy (by voting) and that Inig puts a firm townie stamp on his head. Doesn't make any sense to me.
Eh. It started out as question the scummy things others have pointed out and turned into "that doesn't look scummy". Nevertheless, I'm going to finish with in an in depth look at Alsn's. If I come to a non-scummy conclusion, that will most likely mean nackht/roco/inig as my scumreads for today.
and yeah. They're actions literally make no sense if they are town
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On November 01 2012 09:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 09:21 Alsn wrote:
Oh well, I guess I'll go sleep. I sincerely hope that Inig and Roco show up and that you've actually done some talking to them by the time I wake up. I predict a little snippet by Inig, and I bet roco just plops down his vote with nothing else.
Well at least you got down how Roco and I post 
So uh its probably not optimal strategy to tell the mafia this, but I am utterly lost. I have no idea whos town and whos mafia, I have no idea what arguments hold merit and are worth following and which are ficticious. Didnt think it would be any more useful to say so every few hours.
Now that I have some time I am going to do what I wish I could have done since the beginning, but now it will have to be simplified: sit down and map out everyones actions (much like what debears just did for Cheese) since day 1 in the hopes of at least learning something b4 this is over.
Ill be around for quite a few hours, if you wanna give pointers, explain, ask questions, etc. Hopefully not huge discussions or ill never get this done 
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Vote Count!
If your vote is not properly formatted it will not be counted. Everyone is required to vote.
Roco69 (1) - Alsn
nackhtjogger (0) - Alsn
Dandel Ion (0) - Alsn
Not Voting (6) - debears, Roco69, Mr. Cheesecake, Dandel Ion, Inigmaticalism, nackhtjogger
Currently, Roco69 is set to be lynched! If you see that your vote is incorrect then pm me. You have about 18 hours 45 minutes left to vote! Deadline is at 00:00 GMT (+00:00)
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Right, so the minute I go sleep, activity completely stops. That's just great.
Inig, assuming you are not scum, at this point town being confused is about the perfect situation for scum, because it will undoubtedly lead to a situation where all the 4 remaining town are not voting for the same person. In a situation like that, as long as scum just consolidates on a townie, they win. There's one exception, and that's a situation where all the town votes are for scum and 3 of the town are on the same scum, unless the 3 scum have consolidated on a town before 3 townies are on one of the scum, they don't win. But I find the odds of that to be very unlikely.
For that reason, I'm going to yet again stress the importance that town needs to vote someone that makes sense. So either we need an extremely good case on someone, something which while I have my suspicions, I cannot possibly support with rock solid evidence at this time. For that reason, I think the only option we have is to hope that Roco is scum and vote him out. Remember, other than the unlikely exception I mentioned above, town needs to all vote on the same person, or scum can vote any town they like and get him lynched. If Roco happens to be town, that means he needs to be voting for a scum, which I'd say is 50/50 at best right now. Combined with the fact that the odds of the remaining three town finding scum is probably far from 100%(looking like more like about 50/50 here as well), if Roco is town we have a considerably worse than 50% chance to lynch scum.
For that reason, if we all consolidate on Roco. If he then actually is scum, tomorrow town will be in a position where we can at the very least expect everyone to participate in the discussion. The only question mark at this time is you Inig, can I expect that you will at least try to play? If not, I'm think either you are scum, or this game has been over for a very long time.
So yea, Roco 2012!
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I'll continue looking at other possible targets, but like I said, unless we can produce a good case against someone(and get three votes before people actually start voting and scum likely consolidating on a town), I expect every town to do their duty of "play to win" and vote Roco.
People really need to start voting or at the very least argue with me(although I'm not wrong this time). It's unacceptable that you are all hiding under your kitchen tables hoping that the game ends.
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Also, I'd like to state for the record that if I didn't see Roco as my only viable option, the actions so far this voting day has me thinking that the scum are debears and Cheese. They are both obviously here in the thread, yet the only thing they've done so far is post minor nit picks or "status updates" giving us next to nothing of real value. The last scum is still a mystery to me, it could be nackh, given his experience, but it could also be Roco, Inig or Dandel, I just don't have a good enough town read on anyone at this point.
The conundrum I'm facing is, how the hell am I to get any one of them lynched even if I did have a massively good case on either of them?
My reasons for thinking debears is scum:
- Wasn't NK'd N1. There are more people who are guilty of this, but sylver was far from the "best townie" at that point. It's still possible that he was blue sniped, but if debears had actually been right about anything as scum D1, I'm thinking he would have been the obvious target.
- Not wanting to lynch da0ud when he had been so outspoken during D1 in fear of being associated with lynching a green.
- Disappearing before the Djod lynch.
- At several points "soft" agreeing with me(my original case on Dandel), now with the Roco lynch. Yet never following through, only leaving it open as an option.
- He hasn't even voted Roco yet, even though he must know at this point that the only way we can get a lynch, is by 3 town being "first" on a target and hoping the last town picks scum.
Cheese I'm not so certain about, but the main points are the following(also check out my older case against him in the spoiler):+ Show Spoiler +On October 31 2012 01:49 Alsn wrote:Ok, working yet again under the theory that Cheese and Dandel are of different alignments, I'm seriously starting consider if Cheese might be the third scum. First of all, I find Cheese' explanation for why he thought Djod was scum and not SK highly suspect. Mostly because he made the clarification for why he thought so after Rad claimed vigi. Secondly, he kept Dandel open as a lynch target as soon as I made my case but he had given no indication whatsoever earlier in the thread that he really thought Dandel was scummy. The one time he actually gives his opinion on Dandel is a post giving Dandel advice that he shouldn't "act" confused. If anything, that's the very definition of scum behaviour, offering friendly advice to players they know to be town. Link here.Then after several posts of actually agreeing that Dandel looks scummy, he goes around and says here that - and I'm paraphrasing - "no wait, actually, I never thought Dandel was all that scummy, only his response to your case!" as well as saying my case sucked because the premise was bad. Yet the only thing my premise even suggested was that I thought Djod acting like a lone scum seemed weird and I looked at other possibilities because of it. Dandel tunnelling kush while in hindsight he probably only meant to do because kush is kush, at the time it was most certainly not a bad argument(and still isn't, but Dandel's other actions look much better for him at this point). Interestingly, the point that this happened at is after several posters had criticised me for WIFOMing about Djod(debears among others) so now Cheese must be feeling that he can't keep the option of lynching Dandel instead of Djod open any longer and tries to shut any non-Djod lynch down. I reckon he probably expected Djod to continue acting scummy but unless he conspired with both Roco and Inig I don't think he could have predicted the day to end like it did. The only thing I'm really questioning at this point is how exactly the pre-lynch chaos fits into all of this if both Roco and Inig are scum. Because then I don't see how Cheese could possibly be scum as unless it's an extremely ballsy bluff it just doesn't fit. I don't think scum were in any position to have to gamble on bluffing at all, getting Djod lynched seems like a pretty good result for scum to me. Basically, right now unless I find someone else that I consider more scummy, I need to decide whether or not I want to take the risk of lynching Inig or Roco(still leaning Roco in that case by the way) or to go with an actual case, because I just don't think a rock solid case can be made against either of them. I sincerely hope that they actually try and participate from this point because otherwise I still don't see how I have any other choice than to lynch one of them.
- His need to pick a target among da0ud and Inig D1. Sure, it's possible that if he had voted Djod scum could have come around and ninjaed, but the fact remains that the one getting lynched(and in danger of being lynched) at that point was a townie. So if anything, the only thing Cheese accomplished was gaining townie points for "being concerned about the Inig vs da0ud choice".
- His insistence that Djod was scum through everything, except his idea that he's "scum or SK", who he later said meant 5% SK. I don't believe that latter claim in the slightest, since at that point Rad had claimed and the only way his case against Djod still made sense then was if he didn't downplay the SK thing right the fuck then.
- His actions so far after the Djod lynch, he seems concerned with, what, exactly? I get the distinct impression that he has spent the vast majority of the time reading this thread and talking to his scum buddies. He's gonna read some filters, well great, Djod was lynched more than 48 hours ago, what have you found?
I'd reaaally like it if Dandel showed up at some point soon, because I'd like to know what he thinks now that I'm not "unfair" with my case against him anymore.
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EBWOP: Remember that my old case was posted at a point when I thought the only possible explanation for Roco/Inig voting like that was that they are scum, I don't actually think that anymore, so just take that old case as a pointer on why I think Cheese is scummy.
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On November 01 2012 23:27 Alsn wrote:Also, I'd like to state for the record that if I didn't see Roco as my only viable option, the actions so far this voting day has me thinking that the scum are debears and Cheese. They are both obviously here in the thread, yet the only thing they've done so far is post minor nit picks or "status updates" giving us next to nothing of real value. The last scum is still a mystery to me, it could be nackh, given his experience, but it could also be Roco, Inig or Dandel, I just don't have a good enough town read on anyone at this point. The conundrum I'm facing is, how the hell am I to get any one of them lynched even if I did have a massively good case on either of them? My reasons for thinking debears is scum: 1. - Wasn't NK'd N1. There are more people who are guilty of this, but sylver was far from the "best townie" at that point. It's still possible that he was blue sniped, but if debears had actually been right about anything as scum D1, I'm thinking he would have been the obvious target.
2. - Not wanting to lynch da0ud when he had been so outspoken during D1 in fear of being associated with lynching a green.
3. - Disappearing before the Djod lynch.
4. - At several points "soft" agreeing with me(my original case on Dandel), now with the Roco lynch. Yet never following through, only leaving it open as an option.
5. - He hasn't even voted Roco yet, even though he must know at this point that the only way we can get a lynch, is by 3 town being "first" on a target and hoping the last town picks scum.
1) Speculation. The fact is a blue got nked. The most logical assumption is a blue snipe. You even say other people are more guilty. So, this point holds no merit
2) I had made a case on inig. Inig's lynch had a lot of trouble gaining momentum. On the other hand, Dau0d's lynch came pretty easily
3) IRL - if you don't like it, fuck off
4) I voted Dandel. As you could see, I had looked at his filter after you made a case on him. I had a whole filter + meta telling me he's town. You seem to keep ignoring that. Also, I had found Djo scummy since d1. He had shown nothing that made me think he was townie after d1.
5) We have plenty of time right now. I'm looking into you, then I'll decide. We can consolidate five or so hours before the lynch.
Instead of making stupid half-assed cases, maybe you should try to actually find scum?
Also Alsn, whatever happened to this?
On October 27 2012 01:30 Alsn wrote:
Just one quick thing I'd like to point out. I can tell you right now that you probably shouldn't expect the kind of activity I had in my last game. I spent waaaaay too much time that game and it almost burned me out and I think I spent 6 hours just typing up a case at one point. That was probably also due to the unique circumstances of that game(only 1 scum actually posting at all causing me to be all paranoid about finding someone that actually looked scummy to me). That being said starting tomorrow evening my time I'll definitely spend more time than I have so far.
You said you wouldn't spend as much time on this game as last in the beginning, but you've been showing alot more activity since then. You've got 9 pages of filter, whereas last game thru d2 you had 5. I'd say that's about the same thru day 2.
Why is that?
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Debears you said about Cheese that..:
He became more active with the fill in of Kush. One thing I saw that he did was give kush a meta read on me. He had not been asked in any way to do so. Kush was rampaging about my meta, yet the only one to do a meta read was Cheese.
I don't know when he posted that meta analysis about you but I have a hunch it may have been at a time where he should have been busy with RL according to his excuses that you seem to consider valid:
2) He has been in the middle of a hurricane the last couple of days (honestly out of any IRL excuse, this is a pretty damn reasonable one, especially considering TL has been down twice) He's basically been forced to post when he can
Hurricane is coming yet he has time to make meta investigations? Isn't it far more likely that scum in unison would make a coordinated effort to use your meta, especially if one of them was in a game with you, rather than the one guy who has been busy and who's townieness you don't doubt for a second. Townie = alone. Scum = 3 times the investigative power and player's meta knowledge database.
So 2) and 4:
4) He has investigated meta of the players from previous games
Seem contradictory to me
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I like it how you bold my opening sentence yet ignore the final one saying: "That being said, starting tomorrow evening my time I'll definitely spend more time than I have so far". I'm busy with IRL during the morning and around noon every day, but I'm at home from early afternoon every day. I don't see how that isn't different than last game where I spent almost every waking hour at my computer.
Sure, I've talked a lot this game in spite of this, but that's mostly because I've had reason to talk to people. Last game I had no idea whatsoever as to who was scum, so I spent the majority of my time reading what people had said. This game I'm finding lots more reason to actually speak to people and ask questions.
Lastly, you voted for Dandel, yes, in this post. Yet I can see no reason that you actually had any intention of ever sticking your vote on him. This is made even more clear by the fact that you wanted him to scum hunt yet the only thing he did was answer questions and repeat himself that he "still thinks Djod is scum". In fact, looking at the end Dandel's post here he definitely seems to fit nackh's profile of bullying.
I still don't know what to make of all this, I'm still not sure why I even bother any more because no one actually seems to want to play. Consolidating 5 hours before lynch sounds like about the most scummy thing I've ever heard. With how active people are being in this game, I'm counting on at most 2-3 people posting around lynch time. Hell, for the five hours leading up to the Djod lynch, there were four of us, two of whom are dead.
Like I said, I'm at a point where Roco is the only fucking choice I have. I'm just stating my feelings on what I think is really going on here(and that's about what they are at this point, feelings, because fuck if I know what's going on in this game).
So yea, maybe nackh is right and I'm just fumbling around in the dark, or maybe nackh is your last scum buddy and has been stringing me along because NO ONE ELSE IS FUCKING TALKING TO ME.
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I'll check on that nackht. Gimme a sec
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EBWOP: talking to me any more.
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Also, one last thing. Considering the massive amount of posting both me and nackh did yesterday, I find it absolutely hilarious that both yours and Cheese' only thoughts about our discussions was to conclude that "yea, he's probably UberNinja" and that some of UberNinja's quotes were funny.
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@Alsn
What in the hell do you expect? You live in Sweden. Nackht lives in Germany. There are two fucking mega lurkers (one's acting confused and the other won't talk. Dandel had some fucking thing to do. And Cheese had something to do with classes (right?).
It's timezones + IRL
My schedule is fucking rough, but I manage to read and post when I can. Why are you assuming that everyone has bunches of time to spend on this game to be active when you are?
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On November 02 2012 00:49 Alsn wrote:
Also, one last thing. Considering the massive amount of posting both me and nackh did yesterday, I find it absolutely hilarious that both yours and Cheese' only thoughts about our discussions was to conclude that "yea, he's probably UberNinja" and that some of UberNinja's quotes were funny.
Yeah, cuz you're fucking all over the place. You vote Nackht, saying he's scummy. You vote Roco. You say I'm scummy for bullshit reasons. You call Cheese scummy. You call Dandel scummy.
You go running around in circles speculating and make the thread confusing as hell to read.
Who don't you find scummy? Inig. Holy shit. Throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks
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EBWOP
You find 5 people scummy. Unless there are 5 scum, that's not very helpful
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On November 02 2012 00:54 debears wrote:
@Alsn
What in the hell do you expect? You live in Sweden. Nackht lives in Germany. There are two fucking mega lurkers (one's acting confused and the other won't talk. Dandel had some fucking thing to do. And Cheese had something to do with classes (right?).
It's timezones + IRL
My schedule is fucking rough, but I manage to read and post when I can. Why are you assuming that everyone has bunches of time to spend on this game to be active when you are? I was asleep + away for twelve hours? My point was that if people wanted to comment on our conversation, there was ample time. Instead pretty much the only thing you guys said was that he's UberNinja and that you would read filters. Yes, lurking may be even more detrimental, but seeing as you guys actually did have time to post, I can at least call you out for seemingly not caring.
Look, I'm just as pissed that no one else is saying anything either, but what the fuck am I supposed to do at this point? All I can do is try the best I can and hope to fuck that people actually listen to me.
And if you guys are both town and the amount of work you put in at this point amount to what I consider to be almost nothing, what hope do I have? All things considered I'm still in favour of lynching Roco the lurker, for obvious reasons, because I have to assume that he's the scummiest of all. I think I've been pretty clear about that.
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EPT
