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On October 29 2012 20:57 Dandel Ion wrote:
Dear Djo,
I wasn't 100% sure about Inig.
I said you were either SK or scum (this time I made it the "right" way around, just for you) because I had a scumread on you, and you posted this NK speculation nonsense you like so much. The way you were going on about how it was impossible that scum shot kush made me think you killed him, after you didn't claim Vig when I asked you about it, I thought SK was more likely.
It is not really a matter of lynching a SK OVER scum. You had a good chance of flipping either, and since Kush died, I didn't really have any strong scumreads left.
So in the end, you were my strongest scumread AND a SK candidate.
Lynching you was a win-win situation in my mind.
Now that the shot on Kush is accounted for, you are back to "only" being my top scumread.
@ dandel
I think you are forgetting about this post.
On October 28 2012 08:54 Dandel Ion wrote:
If I'm dead, please lynch Kush.
2nd priority would be Inig.
- I would be tremendously surprised if there isn't at least one scum between the two of them.
I get a strong town feeling from Rad. Once he learns how to make a proper case, you should (at least) listen to him.
debears I'm leaning town, Djo I'm leaning scum, but those reads are not as strong.
Everyone else is pretty null to me, with only slight feel-reads in either direction, or real proper null reads.
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On October 29 2012 21:00 Dandel Ion wrote:
/snip
Do you think formatting is a suitable substitute for scumhunting?
No, but it is useful to actually promote your lynch. You should be concise and clear as town.
Presenting your case with the main points is helping you for both.
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What?
No I'm not, lol.
That was BEFORE the daypost. My suspicions on you, I pushed AFTER the daypost. Because that's when they got a foundation.
I also had a FoS on you before that. Did YOU forget that?
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On October 29 2012 21:03 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2012 21:00 Dandel Ion wrote:
/snip
Do you think formatting is a suitable substitute for scumhunting? No, but it is useful to actually promote your lynch. You should be concise and clear as town. Presenting your case with the main points is helping you for both.
Okay.
I am leaving the thread now, because you try to make me flame you again.
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No, but it's quite strange that you forgot about Ini while tunneling me for being a SK. I told you that accusing me of both is bullshit. I don't think that this could be the same playstyle.
Lynching a SK over scum matters. This is the key 
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Okay guys, I cannot stress this enough, here are the key reasons why I think that dandel is scum. They are not so much easy to find in the case so I'm gonna write them again in plain sight here.
[list]
[*]Dandel scumhunting is lacking of content (against me as SK, against Ini as scum)
[*]Dandel has not pushed his top scumread Ini for the lynch at the end of D1
[*]Dandel casts a FoS on me because of my "scumslip" then accuses me of being a SK. Big contradiction here
[*]Dandel prefers to lynch a possible SK to a possible scum
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Okay guys, I cannot stress this enough, here are the key reasons why I think that dandel is scum. They are not so much easy to find in the case so I'm gonna write them again in plain sight here.
- Dandel scumhunting is lacking of content (against me as SK, against Ini as scum)
- Dandel has not pushed his top scumread Ini for the lynch at the end of D1
- Dandel casts a FoS on me because of my "scumslip" then accuses me of being a SK. Big contradiction here
- Dandel prefers to lynch a possible SK to a possible scum
Sorry guys
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On October 29 2012 21:04 Dandel Ion wrote:
What?
No I'm not, lol.
That was BEFORE the daypost. My suspicions on you, I pushed AFTER the daypost. Because that's when they got a foundation.
I also had a FoS on you before that. Did YOU forget that?
@ dandel
Ok, let's have a look at your FoS.
On October 27 2012 22:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
Okay, so here goes:
Djo is looking really scummy now.
Remember the slip calling daoud a townie? By now, I'm thinking that it actually was a scumslip. Djo just said "dw guise, it was a slip, but not a scumslip. Trust me!" And people actually did that.
My take on that: He wanted to buddy up daoud, and slipped in the process.
The day 1 cases against him didn't hold much ground in my eyes, but daoud's flip changes things.
##FoS Djo
/snip
##FoS Kush
@ dandel
Your key point for FoSing me is the slip I have made regarding daoud alignment. You take it as a scumslip here. This is what has made you reconsider the previous cases on D1 according to you. This kind of thing is supposed to make me a definitive mafia player.
How could you have changed your mind and accused me of being a serial killer ?
A serial killer would have never made this slip because he would have had no information about daoud alignment at that time. My guess is that you switched from mafia to SK because you knew that I couldn't flip red.
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On October 29 2012 12:46 Rad wrote:
I'm leaning hard towards Djo.
@ Rad
A townie should always have an open mind and bla bla bla bla
Shall we discuss this issue when you come back to the thread ? I'll try to present you some good arguments.
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Could we have some news about the fate of nackhtjogger and Roco ?
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I'm awake. I'd just like to state that if you look at my post carefully, the WIFOM is not with regards to Dandel. It just contains my reasons for not entirely condemning Djo just yet.
In my opinion my case against Dandel stands entirely on its own. That being said, debears did indeed point out some interesting points with regards to Dandel's meta which I need to consider.
To be honest, I'm getting the distinct feeling that even IF Djod is scum, his scum buddies almost has to be roco + nackh, or one of them and one of the players that has been playing "safe", although who that would be I have no idea.
Lastly, while I think we can't discount the possibility that Djod is SK and that both him and scum/Rad shot the same target, I find it extremely unlikely. I have no idea why an SK would shoot either kush or sylver.
I think I need to consider just what our chances would be if I'm to go along with a Djod lynch over Dandel. I'm almost at the point where I'm starting to get worried that both of them will flip green - however unlikely that is - and scum has been fooling us all along. Although if that is indeed the case, I don't think we stand much of a chance to be honest.
I'll get back with some non-ramblings soonish, I really just wanted to point out that you can't just look at my case against Dandel and dismiss it just because I'm WIFOMing wrt Djod.
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Also, I'd actually like to know just what the win conditions are for a potential serial killer. Do they really need to win by being 1v1 with scum and night killing them? Since that seems to be implied by the "town wins if all mafia are dead" in combination with "serial killer wins if he is the last person alive".
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On October 29 2012 21:56 Alsn wrote:
I'm awake. I'd just like to state that if you look at my post carefully, the WIFOM is not with regards to Dandel. It just contains my reasons for not entirely condemning Djo just yet.
In my opinion my case against Dandel stands entirely on its own. That being said, debears did indeed point out some interesting points with regards to Dandel's meta which I need to consider.
To be honest, I'm getting the distinct feeling that even IF Djod is scum, his scum buddies almost has to be roco + nackh, or one of them and one of the players that has been playing "safe", although who that would be I have no idea.
Lastly, while I think we can't discount the possibility that Djod is SK and that both him and scum/Rad shot the same target, I find it extremely unlikely. I have no idea why an SK would shoot either kush or sylver.
I think I need to consider just what our chances would be if I'm to go along with a Djod lynch over Dandel. I'm almost at the point where I'm starting to get worried that both of them will flip green - however unlikely that is - and scum has been fooling us all along. Although if that is indeed the case, I don't think we stand much of a chance to be honest.
I'll get back with some non-ramblings soonish, I really just wanted to point out that you can't just look at my case against Dandel and dismiss it just because I'm WIFOMing wrt Djod.
Alsn, the problem with your case is that you base how the scum would push Djo if Djo is town. Before that, you WIFOM into thinking Djo is town based on the fact that no one defended him (when he was not under serious threat to be lynched d1).
@Djo
The second scumslip I was talking about
On October 26 2012 12:18 debears wrote:@DjoDo you believe that Inig fits the category of lurker? His filter is less than a page. Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 26 2012 10:08 Clarity_nl wrote:So.... you're trying to get a strong response by asking what Alsn thinks Inig, which he has done to two other people before him. So what's the reason you brushed off his FoS? Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 01:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
@debears
You've used the word confidence an excessive amount of times. When someone mentioned day 1 policy lynches you immediately dismissed the idea. In fact, whenever anyone suggested something you turned it down, pushing your idea of "if you have a read, push it hard"
Policy lynching on day 1 exists for a reason. Lurkers hurt the town, whether they are mafia or town. If no one takes action mafia will win. Town needs to be organized and decisive, yet you are suggesting to basically follow your gut and push hard.
You follow that up by voting for Rad WAAAAAAY too early in the day.
You are advocating chaos.
If something is fishy, or a comment seems off, make a read or ask a question about it, but big bold statements like "be confident guys!!!" don't actually mean anything.
##FoS debears @ClarityI don't think that debears is advocating chaos. In my point of view, he is certainly promoting discussion. We could as well being still discussing policy lynches if he wasn't here. And please remind that it's quite easy for mafia to avoid a policy lynch. By the way, do you believe that we can lynch a scum on D1 ? What do you think of Inig ? Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 02:04 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 01:45 Dandel Ion wrote:On October 26 2012 01:42 Djodref wrote:@RadMy comments in red in your quoted post. On October 26 2012 01:28 Rad wrote:On October 26 2012 01:21 debears wrote:
Ok. But what individually makes us stand out as scum?
I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out.
##Unvote This is some of what I've got from you and/or djo 1. Pushed the confidence theme hard, as if to make it seem like we NEED to have a scum lynch d1 rather than a policy lurker lynch. FUUUUUuuu. You are doing it again. Policy lynching is just an option and it is a bad option in my opinion because mafia can avoid it easily, especially when town decides to apply this strategy from the beginning. Lynching a suspicious player get us more chances to lynch mafia. We should start to scumhunt in order to do so, not throwing FoS at each other for disagreeing over policy.2. Acted overconfident as if it was easy to make a scum read on d1 (is it? doesn't seem like it, and that's not due to lack of confidence, it's due to lack of information). I'm not saying it is easy, I'm saying it is totally possible and you should have this mentality rather than the policy lynch solution mentality. Would you like to comment about Inig by the way ?3. Twisted people's statements, either responding with something that had nothing to do with the original statement, or focusing heavily on a particular statement as if to give it more importance than it really should have. Please be more specificAll of these things feel scummy to me. You don't get it. You establish a lurker-lynch policy early. Potential lurkers see it and go all "oh shit if I lurk I'm gonna die" So they don't lurk. If you say "nah I'm completely against lynching lurkers" or "We should lynch the most active people" What do lurkers do when they see that? They'll tell themselves "cool, I'm set" And then they lurk. I'm not against a policy lynch but I think it would be better to bring it up when the right time comes (like 6 hours before the lynch ? anyway at a time we can finally identify some serious lurker). Taking an early decision against or for policy lynches is just going to help mafia to use this decision on their favor. Anyway, a lot of people seem to favor a policy lynch for today. I'm not going to go against it but I would appreciate these people to get into super scumhunting mode right now. I'm not going to forgive laziness at all, especially if you are supporting a policy lynch. By the way, what do you think about Inig ? On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote:On October 26 2012 02:40 Alsn wrote:My reasons for thinking Djodref is slightly scummy so far is that he is asking a lot of questions. That in itself isn't particularly scummy(in fact, done right it's pro-town as it pressures people into sharing their opinions and such). The problem I have with it so far is that you keep asking people to answer you, yet your own statements so far amount to picking on the people who are being lurky(Ini, Roco) while at the same time criticising Rad for supporting lurker policy lynch?! This makes no sense to me. This in combination with the slip leads me to believe that you are trying to make yourself look good by being active. I can definitely see the possibility of there being town motivations for your actions so far, but I'd just like to point out that I have my eye on you. So, with that in mind, FoS Djodref. I'll see if I can't take a look at some of the other things said so far before I go to bed but if not, I'll do it first thing tomorrow as I will have a lot more time then. @AlsnI would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me  What do you think about Inig ? Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini. Djo, why would Alsn be able to come up with something consistent if he thought you were scum? This sounds like scum with a guilty conscience. Scum know they are guilty. Their posts are made with the intention to mislead town, meaning that they know that traces of their deception are in their own posts. If you were townie, you would feel that your filter is not filled with scummy things, since you would be honest and sincere. This post definitely does not give that read of honesty.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 29 2012 21:58 Alsn wrote:
Also, I'd actually like to know just what the win conditions are for a potential serial killer. Do they really need to win by being 1v1 with scum and night killing them? Since that seems to be implied by the "town wins if all mafia are dead" in combination with "serial killer wins if he is the last person alive".
Actually the setup is a little misleading, which is probably my fault. Town wins when all threats to town are eliminated - this includes the Serial Killer. Therefore Serial Killer simply has to kill everybody.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 29 2012 21:46 Djodref wrote:
Could we have some news about the fate of nackhtjogger and Roco ?
nackhtjogger hasn't done anything I need to comment on, Roco will either be ... not sure right now
EDITED
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Alright, thanks for the info.
I guess that means we need to consider nackh a player, but Roco at the very least doesn't "count" as it is right now.
Nackh did say that he was going to try and post something today, although he wasn't exactly convincing when he stated such. I'm hoping he at least tries to post something.
As of right now my top scum read is still Dandel as I think his attitude towards kush is extremely incriminating. Declaring right off the bat that he's not going to give someone the benefit of the doubt in my mind clearly means that he will hold everything against him, no matter what. That's just not pro-town play at all.
What I really need to consider however is just how scummy I think Djod(and to some extent Inig) really is. I'll get back on that subject later today, hopefully well before lynch.
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EBWOP with regards to marv's edit: Doh, ok, then ignore my second sentence.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 29 2012 22:26 Djodref wrote:
what about roco's vote ?
thrawn and I will get back to you asap, I can't make unilateral calls, I might get shouted at ^_^
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@ debears
Regarding this slip, I've felt that I didn't really deserve this FoS by Alsn. I've been insulting and provocative because it didn't fit Alsn town meta to cast a FoS so easily on someone. I was expecting more from him so I thought his FoS was not a serious one.
I thought he was a mafia player casting a FoS for the sake of casting a FoS.
Also, I was not comfortable with my play so far. I had slipped already with daoud at this time I think and I knew I had some bad posts. I was expecting a mafia Alsn to commit more to attack me and then be able to catch him this way.
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EPT
