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On September 27 2012 03:35 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 00:16 phagga wrote:On September 26 2012 06:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
sup. how about that LoL? I fear we may all be out of a job soon On September 26 2012 06:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
i would be down for rando lynch
i will flip a coin.
heads it's me, and tails it's you? On September 26 2012 11:34 thrawn2112 wrote:
most boring start to a mafia game i've been a part of yet. at least we're not spending forever talking about lurkers tho
who wants me to write walls of text barf text this game? don't test me, i'll do it. On September 26 2012 23:10 thrawn2112 wrote:
yeah but I'd assume that goes without saying So much for talking about "useless shit". Also I was trying to shut the discussion about time zones down immediatly. Meanwhile all you have done (besides the quotes above) is talking about hammering someone, and you are just echoing others. How about you start contributing some? Do you actually think those posts aren't contributions or are you just jumpy because I ragged on something you were posting about? I see you've made a nice spin-doctored and out of context version of my filter. Serious question btw
Texting from mobile cause cable modem is broken.
Yes they are out of context, but they don't improve when read in context. . I quoted them because you said I was posting useless stuff, when you had done exactly that yourself. I just wanted to show that you were contradicting yourself.
But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone?
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On September 27 2012 04:45 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 03:35 thrawn2112 wrote:On September 27 2012 00:16 phagga wrote:On September 26 2012 06:07 thrawn2112 wrote:
sup. how about that LoL? I fear we may all be out of a job soon On September 26 2012 06:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
i would be down for rando lynch
i will flip a coin.
heads it's me, and tails it's you? On September 26 2012 11:34 thrawn2112 wrote:
most boring start to a mafia game i've been a part of yet. at least we're not spending forever talking about lurkers tho
who wants me to write walls of text barf text this game? don't test me, i'll do it. On September 26 2012 23:10 thrawn2112 wrote:
yeah but I'd assume that goes without saying So much for talking about "useless shit". Also I was trying to shut the discussion about time zones down immediatly. Meanwhile all you have done (besides the quotes above) is talking about hammering someone, and you are just echoing others. How about you start contributing some? Do you actually think those posts aren't contributions or are you just jumpy because I ragged on something you were posting about? I see you've made a nice spin-doctored and out of context version of my filter. Serious question btw Texting from mobile cause cable modem is broken. Yes they are out of context, but they don't improve when read in context. . I quoted them because you said I was posting useless stuff, when you had done exactly that yourself. I just wanted to show that you were contradicting yourself. But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone?
You guys have spent several posts shifting around blame for nothing. I'm just making a note of it.
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On September 27 2012 04:42 Sinensis wrote:
SNIPPED
This is the other post I got a red flag from and that's because I personally don't believe it's worth it for Boxer to claim D2 or D3 for no reason. Hypothetical situations if Boxer claims:
The best that could happen is that we luckily have a medic, Boxer is safe, and there is no role blocker leaving us with a confirmed townie; there is a 33% chance of this outcome. The other possibility is that there isn't a medic and Boxer(s) are vulnerable; there is a 66% chance of this outcome.
All things considered I think if Boxer is among us he needs to stay anonymous until he can save himself/someone else by claiming.
I know I mentioned earlier this game having value in "confirmed townie," but the more I think about it, the less I like that and the less value I see in boxer claims at...any time?
Is a boxer claim really going to save someone? It's the easiest fakeclaim in the world, "Guys I'm blue but can't do anything so there's no actions you can confirm." "Guys I know that other guy also claimed boxer, maybe we're in the 2-boxer setup." I guess we'll see how this plays out, but now the whole claiming boxer thing feels weaker at any point in time. It's essentially claiming "Guys I'm town" except with the potential to give town some info about the setup?
You suggest that a claim would be best in the setup with a medic who can keep Boxer "safe." But do we care if a/the boxer(s) die, moreso than we care about a VT dying?
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what about vt's fakeclaiming boxer
lets all claim boxer
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hey okay so i just reread the whole thread
it is assfuckingly short lets get some more shit out there,
okay terrible mixing of metaphors there but whatever
anyway here's what I think
- at first I thought sinensis was scum because he's not being a huge dick but then i realized i was confusing him with sinani. there goes that whole post.
so now i think ottoxlol is maybe scum because he posts a bunch of short posts but doesn't really say much of substance.
austinmcc always posts like a billion things.
shiaopi i am calling you out. last game we played together you derped your way through because you were blue, then you solved the game but it was too late. If you're town I call on you to play this whole game for reals even if you are blue, you've shown you can do good analysis (even if your case wasn't very well presented, you did solve the game) so people are going to want you to keep doing it now. what do you think about ottoxlol.
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On September 27 2012 04:45 phagga wrote:But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone?
This post struck me as weird:
On September 27 2012 05:27 strongandbig wrote:shiaopi i am calling you out. last game we played together you derped your way through because you were blue, then you solved the game but it was too late. If you're town I call on you to play this whole game for reals even if you are blue, you've shown you can do good analysis (even if your case wasn't very well presented, you did solve the game) so people are going to want you to keep doing it now. what do you think about ottoxlol.
When I read that it seemed like it could be a cleverly written request for better play and it's hiding that strongandbig's actually fishing to try and make a blue read. Like if strongandbig is mafia, and he knows shiaopi is town (which is what I'm getting from the way strongandbig talks to shiaopi) and he's got a meta blue-shiaopi read, then he's baiting shiaopi who he considers might be blue into posting more in order to get his blue read. And his random lynch post seemed pointless... enough people have seen random lynch suggestions in games to know why they're made so if he's town I don't see why he'd think it'd work. And as a discussion starter, same thing. It's been seen enough that when it's made people will instead just talk about the meta of random lynch suggestions.
strongandbig what is your read on shiaopi?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
@SnB:
He is as null as you can get. Nothing remarkable in his filter yet, positive thing is he is not shitting up the entire thread like last game.
Would like to get some more activity in here sooo, let's point out something that struck me as really weird:
Sinensis
How did you go from this
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2012 10:33 strongandbig wrote:
I thought there might be enough new players in the game that the scum team wouldn't have seen palmar do it in the past and would thus take it seriously. It only needed one or two townies to go along with it to get them freaked out, but I guess the townies in this game don't know why palmar does it, either. I asked why YOU wanted to random lynch not why Palmar sometimes random lynches. Palmar isn't even in this game. Why are you dodging? I'm not going to go searching for a random Palmar post about mafia and I'm not going to let you drop Palmar's name like that's an excuse to do something that is widely reguarded as a bad move.
to this:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 27 2012 03:51 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:35 strongandbig wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2012 17:23 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 15:28 phagga wrote:
Wow, 9 hours into the game and we don't even have 2 pages.
I am against a random lynch because in an instant majority game it might shortcut the discussion and therefore won't be helpfull. Also, there is the trust issue.
Sinensis, why dont you want the Boxers to claim?
Also, where is Bluelightz? 4am has long past. I've been thinking of Boxer as a mayor type role. Claiming Day 1 is bad cause then Boxer probably dies night 1 and ESPORTS along with it. It's better to save it for later in the game when we're in a pinch. Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 10:33 strongandbig wrote:
I thought there might be enough new players in the game that the scum team wouldn't have seen palmar do it in the past and would thus take it seriously. It only needed one or two townies to go along with it to get them freaked out, but I guess the townies in this game don't know why palmar does it, either. I asked why YOU wanted to random lynch not why Palmar sometimes random lynches. Palmar isn't even in this game. Why are you dodging? I'm not going to go searching for a random Palmar post about mafia and I'm not going to let you drop Palmar's name like that's an excuse to do something that is widely reguarded as a bad move. .... Ugh So the thing about random lynching is you never want to actually random lynch, it doesn't give you enough info for layer. But what you can do is, if you can get a little momentum going for a random lynch, it freaks scum the fuck out if they don't know what's going on. They know that unless they fuck up, there is little chance for them to get lynched normally on day 1. The information advantage and the ability for their teammates to push other bandwagons guarantee that. So when they think a random lynch might actually happen, they start to behave weirdly and you can pick that out. Makes sense. I'll try to remember that for future games.
when SnB basically did the same explanation twice in a row? I did not like the idea and Snb's explanation particularly either, but you are spinning 180 degrees like mad. You say it is something regarded as bad move, something you got crucified for and then it is something sane which you will remember for future games?
Also why did you call out austin for saying the random lynch idea is "stupid"? Iamperfection said it too, I did as well. So why do you FoS austin? Only for the Boxer thing? If so that would come down to personal belief as I think there would also be a time when a Boxer claim might be useful for town.
Anyway your on my watchlist now, can't yet decide between bad townie or scum. Off to uni now!
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On September 27 2012 07:14 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 04:45 phagga wrote:But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone? This post struck me as weird:
why did you find this weird?
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oh nvm i see what your saying
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On September 27 2012 07:14 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 04:45 phagga wrote:But tell me, thrawn, who is a scummy person in this game, and why? Do you already see someone? This post struck me as weird: Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 05:27 strongandbig wrote:shiaopi i am calling you out. last game we played together you derped your way through because you were blue, then you solved the game but it was too late. If you're town I call on you to play this whole game for reals even if you are blue, you've shown you can do good analysis (even if your case wasn't very well presented, you did solve the game) so people are going to want you to keep doing it now. what do you think about ottoxlol. When I read that it seemed like it could be a cleverly written request for better play and it's hiding that strongandbig's actually fishing to try and make a blue read. Like if strongandbig is mafia, and he knows shiaopi is town (which is what I'm getting from the way strongandbig talks to shiaopi) and he's got a meta blue-shiaopi read, then he's baiting shiaopi who he considers might be blue into posting more in order to get his blue read. And his random lynch post seemed pointless... enough people have seen random lynch suggestions in games to know why they're made so if he's town I don't see why he'd think it'd work. And as a discussion starter, same thing. It's been seen enough that when it's made people will instead just talk about the meta of random lynch suggestions. strongandbig what is your read on shiaopi?
To your overall point i don't think its weird to call out a poster if you know he can contribute as a town player. Ive done something somewhat similar in a previous game in the opposite way with regards to a player named yourharry. Which leads me to my next point
Mr. Bluelightz whats your overall plan for this game do you plan on lurking hardcore like usual or do plan on contributing and being useful?
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iamP, my overall plan for this game is to post when I can, I'm at school right now but I can't post more besides this till later.
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On September 27 2012 10:46 Bluelightz wrote:
iamP, my overall plan for this game is to post when I can, I'm at school right now but I can't post more besides this till later.
i hope so
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@ ShaoPi: SnB explained himself perfectly clearly and without being a dick. That goes a long way. All I wanted was for him to explain why he wanted to rng, and he did. And honestly it makes sense and is something I may try in future games myself. It has produced discussion.
This is what I said about austinmcc reguarding "Random lynch still dumb.":
"While I disagree with a random lynch, it is how it's presented that I have a problem with. He just says it's "dumb." Not why it's dumb or better why -he- thinks it's dumb. Just dumb. This is not indicative of alignment and I think it's dodgy."
I don't know if I can explain myself any more clearly than that. The reason I didn't pressure you about it is because you did exactly what I did, you asked SnB to explain himself and he did. That made you look like you had a town agenda. Iamperfection also went on to explain why rng is stupid here:
On September 26 2012 08:38 iamperfection wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2012 07:59 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 06:56 iamperfection wrote:On September 26 2012 06:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
i would be down for rando lynch
i will flip a coin.
heads it's me, and tails it's you? As someone who has suggested random lynches in the past i will be against it this game because it is stupid. Why did you suggest it in the past and why is it stupid now i cant talk about why i did in rockband because its an ongoing game but from my exp when palmar suggested it in my previous game it seems to be somewhat good generator of discussion but it seems to catch more stupid townies then it does scum.
austinmcc just sort of said rng was "dumb" and gave no indication of a town agenda or a desire to communicate. He didn't ask SnB to explain why he suggested an idea he thought was dumb. He just said it was dumb. Period.
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Ideal: "I think your idea is dumb because <reason>, please explain why you want to do your idea."
Good: "I think your idea is dumb because <reason>"
Good: "I think your idea is dumb. Please explain why you want to do your idea."
Bad: "I think your idea is dumb."
Maybe this will help. This is my thought process.
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Missed this the first time. Looking for more responses austinmcc.
On September 27 2012 05:01 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 04:42 Sinensis wrote:
SNIPPED
This is the other post I got a red flag from and that's because I personally don't believe it's worth it for Boxer to claim D2 or D3 for no reason. Hypothetical situations if Boxer claims:
The best that could happen is that we luckily have a medic, Boxer is safe, and there is no role blocker leaving us with a confirmed townie; there is a 33% chance of this outcome. The other possibility is that there isn't a medic and Boxer(s) are vulnerable; there is a 66% chance of this outcome.
All things considered I think if Boxer is among us he needs to stay anonymous until he can save himself/someone else by claiming. I know I mentioned earlier this game having value in "confirmed townie," but the more I think about it, the less I like that and the less value I see in boxer claims at...any time? Is a boxer claim really going to save someone? It's the easiest fakeclaim in the world, "Guys I'm blue but can't do anything so there's no actions you can confirm." "Guys I know that other guy also claimed boxer, maybe we're in the 2-boxer setup." I guess we'll see how this plays out, but now the whole claiming boxer thing feels weaker at any point in time. It's essentially claiming "Guys I'm town" except with the potential to give town some info about the setup? You suggest that a claim would be best in the setup with a medic who can keep Boxer "safe." But do we care if a/the boxer(s) die, moreso than we care about a VT dying?
It's not the -easiest- fake claim in the world. More hypothetical situations:
- If 1 Boxer claims and no other Boxers claim then there is either a doctor OR a parity checker. The parity checker can check Boxer and since he is a unique class, it should come back as different from everyone. There is a probability of failure since the parity checker is not a full investigator but it's better than nothing. The doctor can protect Boxer and we will have a confirmed townie to work with.
- If two Boxers claim and one is fake, then the doctor/parity checker will know since there are no doctors/parity checkers in the 2 Boxer setup.
- If zero Boxers claim, then none of this applies, so yeah.
If VTs fake claim, then we can not use this information for our benefit.
@Austinmcc: Also, you wrote:
Hammering someone makes you stick out. Hammering someone with no warning whatsoever makes you stick out. If scum want to stick out and be visible, I don't have a problem with that.
In my FoS post against you I pointed this out. This post implies you don't mind the last person to vote hammer voting. Most of us have expressed we are against this because all it does is cut discussion short. I am against it and I think your reasoning parallels "too scummy to be scum" logic. You still haven't responded to my criticism about this.
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On second thought that first bullet, this:
The parity checker can check Boxer and since he is a unique class, it should come back as different from everyone. There is a probability of failure since the parity checker is not a full investigator but it's better than nothing.
I didn't understand the parity checker role so disregard that.
The point I'm trying to make is that as long as town doesn't fake claim Boxer, then if mafia does fake claim Boxer we should be able to figure it out. The other blue roles will know, this is how:
3 Boxers claim -> 1 or 2 Boxers are mafia; if there is a non-boxer blue, 1 boxer is fake; if there are no non-boxer blues, 2 Boxers are fake
2 Boxers claim, no other blue roles -> no fakes
2 Boxers claim, 1 non-boxer blue role -> exactly one boxer is fake
1 Boxers claim, 2 non-boxer blue roles -> Boxer is fake
1 Boxers claim, 1 non-boxer blue role -> no fakes
Sorry for spamming but no one wants to talk so... this is what you get.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
on phone:
@Sinensis:
there is a crucial mistake in your thoughts regarding the boxer claims. you are assuming that the blue roles know who each other are, but they do not, therefore a boxer claim is the "easiest" fakeclaim in the world. There is no way to out a fake boxer without having other blues counterclaiming (or claiming) immediately.
Let's go through your scenarios:
3 boxer claim: I doubt that in a 9 player setup both scum would be fakeclaiming so it would probably at most be 1 scum between them. How do you plan to confirm who? We do not know if we got 1, 2 or 0 boxers, if there is a boxer he also does not know if there is another one.
2 boxer claim: The same problem, boxers don't know if there is another, other blues would know, but they would have to out themselves. How do you want to confirm the fact that there is one or more boxer without blowing the cover of our blues or lynching amongst the claimers?
I would say we discuss further the topic of boxer if a claim shows up, there is not much use to speculate around it right now.
@ottoxlol:
What is your read on SnB?
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
Vote count
Not Voting (9): ShiaoPi, Bluelightz, iamperfection, austinmcc, strongandbig, Ottoxlol, thrawn2112, Sinensis, Phagga
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 1 ends in ~37 hours at Friday, Sep 28 9:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 21:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
To clear up any confusion: this game uses Instant Majority Lynch. All players must have voted by the end of the day. If a majority is reached before the deadline, that player is lynched and the day ends instantly. Please refrain from posting until the Night Post goes up. If the deadline is reached without a majority, the result is a no-lynch.
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My take on SnB is that he really has to step up his game or I will vote him.
First he suggest a random lynch, he doesnt reply to why would anyone do that, then comes out with this "scum would freak out", I ask him why would they, he doesnt reply. Then says I am scum because I write short posts and doesnt contribute:
SnB, out of all the players why did you choose me? At that moment there was plenty of players with less or around the same content/posts as me. For example you had only one post (the last one, calling shiaopi and me out) other then the whole random lynch thing.
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EPT
