EPTDeath Note Mini Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
/in  | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I also think that finishes the list :D | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 30 2012 21:52 marvellosity wrote: which incidentally guarantees you will be wrong Ya lose good hats that way  | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 31 2012 11:46 Hapahauli wrote: I disagree. No one here is a newbie, and every competent town player should know that lurking is bad in a 24 hour setup. As far as I'm concerned, if someone is not putting in the effort on their own after committing to such an intense setup, they are anti-town and deserve significant suspicion. I don't want to have to let anyone know. If someone lurks, my "reminder" will be a D1 lynch hammer, and they'll have to claw their way out to survive. Guess I'm going to have to step it up from previous games. I agree though. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On August 31 2012 14:57 Shady Sands wrote: Fair enough. You still haven't posted any reads D1 yet. We're more than 12 hours in. What are your reads? We're actually only about 5 hours into the game atm. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I don't feel like BMB's case on Hapa is particularly compelling, but given the point in the game that it was written, that's to be expected. I do find it strange that he mentioned Hapa's discussion of lurker policy, again given the point in the game, since that's all there is to talk about. What should Hapa have been discussing instead? @s&b I thought Hapa's vote on Hopeless was part of the beginning-of-game banter, so I dismissed it. I actually felt the same way as Hopeless, so Hapa's vote seemed more comical than scummy. I found the entire post to be a null tell. And I will try to avoid a no-lynch at all cost. I don't like starting D2 without learning anything at the end of D1. I'll find anyone pushing a no-lynch suspicious. Even with a mislynch on a lurker (no, I'm not hoping for a mislynch), someone has to push for it, and that reveals peoples' motivations. @Hapa You probably slipped that up because I've been so lurky. I'm awake now though :D | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
HiroPro's case was convincing. Momentoss seems to be casting a wide net of suspicion without committing to anything. Even his Mr.Zentor vote is just "for now..." He seems indifferent as to who gets lynched. On September 01 2012 02:07 Mementoss wrote: I don't know what else to say to you. I don't think ghost is scum, though I didn't like the way he defended bmb. BMB has been getting constantly talked about and called scum by every second person. I want to give him a chance to respond to the thread. Voting Mr.Zentor is going to make him post something I think is worthy of him showing that he is going to make an attempt at being useful this game. You've officially went from soft defending Zentor to hard defending him, in an aggressive way against me. Guess you voting him at the start of the game was two scum buddy buddying around in the thread? + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2012 01:40 Shady Sands wrote: This post makes absolutely no sense. Momen can you further explain? Who dafuq is momen. I haven't felt like Hapa has been defending Mr.Z at all, but has instead been trying to figure out why Momentoss is voting him instead of any of the other candidates he's mentioned, or even any of the other lurkers. Momentoss then builds this "hard defense" into an associative case where neither of the players involved has flipped (naturally). These claims can be made of anyone who has responded to anything another player has said, and cannot be proven or disproven without a lynch on one of the two involved. In fact, I was lightly involved in the "buddy buddying" around in the beginning, and am now "hard defending" Mr.Z by his logic. Am I next on the scumlist? This line of reasoning may seem like scumhunting but there's nothing to base a read on. ##Vote Momentoss | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
##Vote Mementoss | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I'll start with why I didn't suspect Shady. Essentially, I find it incredibly difficult to read him this early. He's the player in this game that I have the most experience playing with (most cases against), and his behaviour is incredibly similar to this regardless of his alignment. I've mislynched him for the same reasons I've voted for him when he was scum, and I feel that more information is needed for me to consider him a good lynch. Now onto why I voted for Mementoss. HiroPro's was the first case I found to be actually convincing. Most of the reasoning is covered in my previous post as well as the original HiroPro post. But my biggest concern was when you tried to tie Hapa and Mr.Z together as a scumteam. I now understand your reasoning based on recent posts, but at the time it seemed like you were just throwing together an associative case with no basis (or at least based on very flimsy support). This was suspicious to me because such a case would require a lynch on one of the people involved to even confirm viability. It's like an "accuse two, lynch one free" case. I generally find them scummy because they're almost pure WIFOM until one of the members flip. There is nothing we can do with such a case without lynching one of them first, and I found the reasons for lynching each individual lackluster. Mementoss has since addressed my pressing concerns, so now I have to decide which of the other cases I think is most viable. ##Unvote | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
##Vote Mementoss | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 01 2012 10:23 Hapahauli wrote: Yo dawg, what do you think of HiroPro, and the strong defense being mounted for him so far? I'm not convinced by the case. It may be because I have similar feelings in terms of scumreads as HP, aside from this nagging thought that my suspicions haven't been addressed. On September 01 2012 10:24 Shady Sands wrote: This is just stupid. The only people who swapped off MMToss were you and HP. how could there be scum support? There were more people defending MMToss than the two of us who switched off. I can think of three people who defended Mementoss when he became my strongest scumread. You don't need to be involved in the vote to defend someone against being lynched. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
@Mementoss: What would you have said if ghost didn't say anything today except "I've got stuff to do so I won't be here today. I vote snb for <insert reasons here>."? I understand that these are two extremes, but ghost mentioned before that he was going to be afk most of Saturday, and as I see it what he's done is the best way for him to contribute if he can only be here shortly. He's given us what insight he can from the first day or so, and at the very least this gives us a lot of information to hold him to when he returns. If he decides to launch an attack on marv because of a potential SnB mislynch, he'll have to explain how he went from a slight town read to a scum read. I feel like I know more about him than I know about you. Your first case against Shady was dropped, apparently, simply because he agreed with you about ghost. What are your current thoughts on Shady? You seemed pretty sure about his scumminess before, but a similar shared read on a third party was able to sway your view that much? Shady is looking scummier to me. He seems particularly adamant about looking at bandwagoners, but said nothing about those who bandwagoned onto Palmar. That was the most suspicious case, as there was very little reasoning behind it and the target has actually flipped town. Who has he accused? The MMToss bandwagon: ghost, Palmar(town), BMB (town), mkfuba(town, but don't take my word for it), and HiroPro. He went so far as to say that the three of us who are still alive are a scumteam based on this unflipped bandwagon. He was so sure of our guilt when our target hasn't flipped yet, but shows no suspicion towards those on the Palmar bandwagon, a far more suspicious case. He then skips right over that bandwagon and accuses those who are voting for SnB despite there being an extremely viable reason for voting for him. It's true that both HiroPro and ghost_403 have voted for SnB, and they appear to have been his greatest suspicions D1. However, he completely ignores the ridiculous bandwagon on Palmar, who we actually know was a mislynch. There were reasons to vote for MMToss. There are reasons to vote for SnB. There were practically no reasons to vote for Palmar, and this is the bandwagon he ignores in his hunting. ##Vote Shady Sands | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Regarding SnB, I don't believe there's two different kinds of millers. I'm more inclined to believe he is a traitor of some sort (from what I understand of traitors). SnB showed evidence of having different insight into the workings of how his supposed miller role worked than one would gain from the role PM that we saw from Palmar the Suspicious Detective. I think he's scum. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Votes for SnB (7) - HiroPro, marvellosity, Node, MrZentor, ghost_403, Risen, Hopelessr1der Votes for ghost_403 (3) - Mementoss, strongandbig, Shady Sands Votes for Shady Sands (1) - mkfuba07 @Shady: You mean like this? On September 01 2012 09:04 ghost_403 wrote: This is the post done by Mementoss that makes me think that he's scum. Take a close look at what he's saying in this post.
To the first point, he points out that I've been defending BMB, which is not true. I've been trying to force a discussion about BMB with the people who have been voting BMB. I specifically point that out in this post and this post. Look at what he said real carefully. It's not that he disagrees with what I did. I think he's misrepresenting what I've done in the game up until this point in order to undermine my position in the town. Reading his position on BMB, you realize that he's all over the place in his read. "bit scummy", "make himself look town", "the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective"... All of this would make you think that given a bullet, he'd shoot BMB dead. So why isn't he voting BMB, or at the very least pressuring on him hard? If I was that convinced someone was scum, I'm going to do everything I can to make him sweat bullets and get him lynched. MMToss just kind of admits it, and leaves it hanging. Next, Risen is a bit off. Everyone said that. Next! Finally, he votes Zentor. His vote on Zentor isn't based around the fact that he think's he is scum, he's simply voting for him because he feels compelled to vote. I don't see him putting a lot of thought into his vote, which is exactly what a mediocre scum player does. TL;DR - I think MMToss is scum because of this post. I'm going to be rather upset if the town lets him off the hook. Do you not see this as reasoning behind his vote? Or do you not see it as being "independent" enough? Or did you not read his filter before saying that he didn't support his vote? As for this quote: He also tells town to pressure Risen over the Palmar lynch, which looks to me like scum trying to set town up for a second mislynch after stumbling on D1. Why not blame yourself, Ghost, for offering no independent analysis on why you voted MMToss? He provided his own reasoning for voting for MMToss, and actually voted for someone other than Palmar. How can you try to place the blame for the mislynch on him in any way? Maybe he should have been here spamming "Vote for my candidate guys! He's scum!" a few hours before the deadline. Maybe that would have stopped that mislynch that he didn't promote. @All: I'm actually not understanding how ghost's post is so scummy. Is that the general feeling when posts like this are seen? | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Why is it that every time we attack one of HiroPro/Ghost/Mkfuba, they all end up pushing other candidates/defending each other immediately thereafter? For me, it could be because I tend to disagree with most of what you say. Furthermore, if by "defending" HiroPro, you mean when I didn't vote for him when there were two lynch candidates with more votes and I wanted to make my vote count instead of wasting it on a third party with little chance of being lynched, then yes I defended him. As for ghost, I wasn't trying to defend him, though I somehow expected you to say that. I simply think your case is bad. Possibly bad. All Ghost did there was repeat what others already said on an 18 hour old post. MMToss had moved far beyond that post already by the time it was posted. It was under 8 hours old. Anyway... I keep trying to respond to this, but too much of it relies on ghost's reasoning. Instead, I'll just say that I agree that ghost could have commented more on MMToss by the time of the vote, but I don't see his vote as scummy. Not being able to reference a post because it's old seems silly to me, and not using an argument simply because another person said it first is equally silly. I see that SnB has flipped. I would have changed my vote from Shady to SnB to ensure a lynch on him, but it appears I don't have to. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Also take note that SnB's kill had to happen at least 4 hours after the PM. It could be relevant to look at when the previous two townies died and see what they were saying four hours before that. I know it wouldn't be solid evidence, but it could be pertinent. I'm getting dinner, be back later  | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Sorry, formatting errors drive me crazy. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Unfortunately, since he was a traitor on D2, I'm not sure what we can actually draw from the lynch. Whether or not SnB would have found Kira in two checks is impossible to tell, and whether or not Kira actually picked up on what SnB was up to is difficult to tell. I see any analysis beyond that to be incredibly WIFOM-y and it makes my head hurt. Analysis of the kills: It's likely that both of today's deaths were the work of scum. Unless we get a message from L (through marv) that one of them was a tow vigi shot of some sort, I'm going to assume that Kira wanted them both dead for some reason. The fact that both Shady and MMToss voted for ghost doesn't escape me, so I'm going to give a lot of thought to that. I also find it strange that this was done instead of killing Hiro when he claimed cop. If Hiro was telling the truth, then either Kira didn't believe him, or killing both of these players was simply more important to him. I'm going to start search through SnB's filter and see who he doesn't mention. I feel like he would have refrained from accusing people he suspected to be Kira. I'm also going to go through the filters of people who have flipped town and were killed by scum, but I want to check SnB's contributions first. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 03 2012 02:35 MrZentor wrote: I'm pretty confident Shady's death was a vigilante kill.... Why? | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Based on that thought it's occurred to me that Kira may still be effectively working alone, if all of those following him have to find him first. It's pretty speculative, but this may affect what I previously said about both deaths being carried out for a single purpose. Unless I hear from L, I'll still believe that both were the work of scum, but I might not believe that the Shady + Mementoss kills were collectively more important than a Hiro kill. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Pre-edit: ninja'd Fluff: I hate Zentor. I still don't know what to think of him, I just dislike his play. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Two things that seemed strange after reading marv's post: 1) This is regarding #2. Ghost says that he didn't see the need to rehash his suspicions because they were the same as Hiro's. I accept this. However, the fact that he wasn't satisfied when Hiro was and provided no alternate reasoning against which MMToss could defend himself makes me suspicious. I see this as scummy. At the same time, I provided less room for MMToss to defend himself, though I didn't really claim to have had solid reasons for voting for him. 2) Regarding #4: Ghost's explanation resonates with me. I had such feelings about MMToss D1 and voted based on it. His D2 vote was more legitimate than my D1 vote. I only find it strange that he would say that his suspicions were confirmed without having stated those suspicions beforehand. Personally, I only reiterate that I had a certain read if I mentioned having that read beforehand. It may just be a playstyle difference. I'm not sure if I'd consider it a scumtell. It feels hypocritical to vote for ghost based on reasoning that could apply to me as well, but there are some subtle differences. At the moment I would be willing to vote for him, but I want to take a look at a few other people - Mr.Z, Risen, Hopeless, and Node for the sake of transparency - before placing my vote. My last two scumreads flipped town today, so I need to broaden my search. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
##Vote MrZentor He votes almost arbitrarily for any of the potential lynch candidates with little reasoning and just about no support when his vote is questioned. I was going between MrZentor, ghost, and Node. My suspicion of Node stemed from his absence D1, his infrequent posting, and one of his comments that I had misunderstood. I do believe he could be contributing more, so some suspicion remains, but what he's said while here sounds reasonable. The fact that the 2 people in the game that I currently have a pretty good town read on are voting him too certainly helps. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 03 2012 08:42 ghost_403 wrote: Sigh. I really wish I could come back here with some amazing analysis that shows why we should be voting Zentor today. ##vote MrZentor I feel the same way. I just don't see better options and his play hasn't been very townie... | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
At the moment I have no reasons to doubt HiroPro, and fewer reasons to doubt L telling us to listen to him. The international has me in a dota-y mood, so I'm going to play a bit. I'll be online for about 5 hours before the lynch in case anything new arises. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
@Risen: Why did you trust Hiro's cop claim? Is this semi-mason power your only ability as L? | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
##Unvote I have a question about voting. does this: Scum wins when their number is equal or more than town's number. override this:5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first is lynched. I ask because if we mislynch D3 it will result in the teams being 3 town/2 scum (if I've done my math right, it's currently 5-2, with a mislynch and today's scumkill = 3-2). If the three town vote for someone before the two scum vote for someone, will the town vote have priority over the scum vote since it was the person with the most votes first? Or is it instant scum win when it's 2-2? | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 03 2012 15:40 mkfuba07 wrote: ##Vote Risen At the moment I have no reasons to doubt HiroPro, and fewer reasons to doubt L telling us to listen to him. The international has me in a dota-y mood, so I'm going to play a bit. I'll be online for about 5 hours before the lynch in case anything new arises. The bold portion sums up my recent confusion. My faith in Hiro was based on a belief that L had some way to confirm people's alignment (as that makes perfect sense, him being the Head Investigator and all). Risen's L claim was the only thing that would make me doubt Hiro's cop claim in the slightest. The fact that he claimed to have only the mason-like ability made me suspicious, though. I suspected Hiro to be L since he claimed cop, but it wasn't a sure thing. L's confirmation of it earlier made me believe him. And Hiro's recent claim fits perfectly into what I believed was likely going on. The fact that there is no "L's servant" further confirms it for me, since no one has come forward to claim having killed hapa. If you were L, Risen, how did you know that hapa's death was a town vigi kill if you didn't do it, and you didn't have any additional powers allowing you to know who did? Finally, Risen's newfound shock that we haven't been suspecting Hiro of lying about his claim this entire time, when he is only just now mentioning it, reeks of scum desperation. Especially because it was supposedly his own words that made us believe Hiro. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 04 2012 05:51 Risen wrote: This you trying to gain town cred just in case Hiro slipped up/did something else stupid like he just did? No, this was me trying to figure out if your reasoning was accurate, and if we could still survive if we mislynched you. Fortunately I don't fear a mislynch anymore. Nice fingerpointing though. When you flip scum maybe it'll support my townie status. God knows I didn't do a very good job of that myself this game. I forgot to do this in my last post, so ##Vote Risen | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
For starters, I'd like to draw attention to these two posts, which I feel were his most substantive posts regarding the SnB lynch. I actually previously felt like they were his most substantial posts of them all (particularly the first one). It seemed to have been well thought out and insightful. On September 02 2012 11:05 Node wrote: I disagree strongly. I think s&b's claim was made at least partially to alert scum that he was a traitor. Put yourself in Kira's position -- you're probably aware that you have at least one supporter hidden among the detectives. Who looks most likely? I'd have to imagine it's the person who claims they're going to start appearing red at some point to checks. On September 02 2012 11:30 Node wrote: Well, for starters, it's entirely possible that s&b was, in fact, communicating with the scum team. It's also possible (though less likely) that Kira had some method of checking if someone is a traitor, which the claim would've baited out quickly. They appear to be meant in an attempt to help town, but if given even 5 minutes of thought I feel like most town would see following this course of reasoning to be full of unsupportable WIFOM. Trying to gain anything from the speculation of whether SnB found Kira, and then on top of that speculating on how the scum would react to SnB's impending lynch is a complete waste of time. This may not point to Node being scum, but it does pretty much indicate that these posts were useless despite appearing to be meaningful contributions (at least to little old newbie me). They also support Risen's strong pursuit of that line of reasoning, and as we know he was scum. As for its insightfulness, it's not particularly insightful to give reads from Kira's point of view when you are Kira. He could support the misleads that Risen was encouraging without actually sticking his head out while appearing townish at the same time. Most significantly, there's also the fact that earlier in the game he says that he doesn't see anything scummy about Hiro, then votes for Risen. In the most recent vote, when we're all diving on top of Risen, he suddenly finds Hiro to be more scummy. He doesn't explain this, or at least tries to explain it extremely poorly in his single post from yesterday. Why is he suddenly not believing HiroPro when he states in his reasoning for the MrZentor lynch that he's "...going to have to go with L and Hiro on [that] one."? His reads are completely inconsistent, his reasoning is incredibly lacking, and he is supporting discussion that doesn't lead to catching scum. Node is scum. ##Vote Node | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I see this possibility - WIFOM-y as it may be - more likely than a townie just flip-flopping completely on his read (hiro-town/Risen-scum -> Risen-town/Hiro-scum) for any of the reasons Node presented in his single post from D4. The reasons for town Node doing what he did are almost non-existent compared to the reasons that scum-Node would have done so. As for Hiro still being alive all this time, he said they tried to kill him last night. Until D4, he was just the "cop". The fact that L previously mentioned a "servant" may have made them think that Hiro wasn't actually L, but one of his underlings. After he roleclaimed and subsequently revealed that there was no servant, they tried to take him out. The fact that there was no scumkill confirms this for me. The only other option is that Hiro is an absolutely diabolical mastermind, the real L was killed and for some reason has left behind a VT role PM (hence no one else to claim L from him), AND Hiro decided to give up his scumkill today in order to claim that he was shot but didn't die. Far more likely: scum was confused, and Hiro is L. As an aside, I'm wondering if there are actually 2 scum remaining. My first paragraph only grows stronger if the scumteam felt that they only had to convince one person instead of two (making the vote 4-3 for Hiro with one less town vote). I'm also not sure what the balance would be in a game like this, so maybe someone experienced could provide some input as long as it doesn't distract from scumhunting. It could make sense to me in a setup with 15 players that there are 4 scum as long as one is a traitor. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 04 2012 07:45 mkfuba07 wrote: The bold portion sums up my recent confusion. My faith in Hiro was based on a belief that L had some way to confirm people's alignment (as that makes perfect sense, him being the Head Investigator and all). Risen's L claim was the only thing that would make me doubt Hiro's cop claim in the slightest. The fact that he claimed to have only the mason-like ability made me suspicious, though. I suspected Hiro to be L since he claimed cop, but it wasn't a sure thing. L's confirmation of it earlier made me believe him. And Hiro's recent claim fits perfectly into what I believed was likely going on. The fact that there is no "L's servant" further confirms it for me, since no one has come forward to claim having killed hapa. If you were L, Risen, how did you know that hapa's death was a town vigi kill if you didn't do it, and you didn't have any additional powers allowing you to know who did? Finally, Risen's newfound shock that we haven't been suspecting Hiro of lying about his claim this entire time, when he is only just now mentioning it, reeks of scum desperation. Especially because it was supposedly his own words that made us believe Hiro. On September 04 2012 11:41 HiroPro wrote: T_T they shot me Check those timestamps. Almost exactly four hours after I clarified that I was still going to vote for Risen, Hiro claims to have been shot. They were no longer going to be able to push a mislynch on L, so they decided to kill him with the Deathnote. We have firm reason to believe that any kill with the Deathnote takes at least four hours to carry out (from the flip on SnB), and that is exactly the amount of time it took for the shot to happen. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Gotta get to my next class. May or may not be able to post for the next 3-4 hours, but I sure as hell plan to be here for the lynch today. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I still see no reason for town Node to have voted for Hiro instead of Risen, especially given his two earlier defenses of Hiro and his earlier vote and suspicion of Risen. Scum Node on the other hand, when given the opportunity to mislynch L and save his scumpartner at the same time, has every reason to attempt it. The scumteam as a whole had a great reason to pursue this course of action, because Risen was going down anyway, so he might as well take L with him. Now for the new stuff. Check these posts by Risen: + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2012 05:48 Risen wrote: Shady Sands: The Case of Being Really Bad or Being Bad I'm going to give Shady the benefit of the doubt here and say that he's just Bad. To start off with, I can't tell whether he just didn't read the statement properly, or whether he was trying to misrepresent what mamba was saying (in the case of one, he's really bad, in the case of two, he's just bad. See where I'm going with this? This isn't American Politics. People are going to read what you're saying and "lying" about what someone means is going to get caught by someone (me!). Now Hopeless is a town player in Shady's eyes and Hapa gets the good ole FoS for calling Hopeless out. Why is calling someone out for saying something stupid grounds for an FoS? Hopeless could CLAIM that what he did was simply meant to generate discussion but I tend to only believe such claims from people I've seen do it before. Regardless, Hopeless didn't claim that, and you pretty much FoS'd someone for calling out someone who asked to be told when he was lurking. It's too WIFOM to discuss what Hopeless was trying to do here, but it isn't WIFOM to say that calling Hopeless out for doing something stupid isn't something worthy of an FoS. Also, how do you justify your feelings that Hopeless is towny from what he's written? You use a WIFOMy argument. Sure, that might be all you have, and just saying that is fine. However, you used that to back up your suspicions of another player, which is bad. Next up we have your "defense" of lynching lurkers over liars. This is really bad. Defense is in quotes because I don't think you ever really come out and say we should lynch lurkers over liars, but the implication sure is there. And how do you support your position? One guy. But that one time BM was town! I don't care. You lynch whoever is the most scummy player, and in 99% of cases the liar is that scummy player. That's really wishy washy. No longer really bad, you're bad scum trying to appear active in my mind now. See a trend here? What's this mamba/shady back and forth really about? I'm not sure anything of substance came from this. I'm not going to hold this against you, though, because if anyone ever wants to look through my filters in just about any game I'm not hydra'd with marvel on you're in for a rough time. One thing that bugged me about you here is that you already start calling lurkers out. How long has the game really been going for? Another thing that bugs me here is Mamba's voting with your earlier FoS on Hapa. This is more an indictment against Mamba than you, though. Mamba being one of my FoS's doesn't help you at all, and neither does your guys' giant discussion earlier. Now that it is much later in the game you point out that node and mamba are not posting like they should be. Fair enough, and I can get behind that. Now then. Another really bad vs bad point. How do you not understand what Mementoss is saying? You can DISAGREE with what he's saying, but to say it makes no sense? Add this to your earlier misrepresentation of mamba and you see where I start to question the line between really bad town, and bad scum. I think you're scum trying to appear active in the thread so you try and point things out that could be suspicious in other players. Any "cases" you make aren't really that fulfilling and then you vote Node. Why Node over MrZ? Surely the "active lurker" is more suspicious than the guy who might not even be playing the game/is getting modkilled. Right? It all adds up to really bad townie vs bad scum. I think you're just bad scum. ##unvote ##vote: Shady Sands On September 01 2012 11:48 Risen wrote: And yet somehow Solar escapes this? It's posts like this that read as scummy to me. You're calling out one player when another did nearly the exact same thing. These were in response to two of the few times that Node was mentioned independent of any other lurking players. Both times, Risen tries to draw attention to other lurkers. I see this as a soft defense of Node. Anyone else being mentioned independently never drew a "well what about Node?" from Risen. He actually focused heavily on Palmar because of his lurkiness and trolling, but apparently didn't see the need to mention Node at that time. The second thing I'd like to do is remind everyone of is the argument between Hapa and Node below: + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2012 09:23 Hapahauli wrote: @ Node - Don't vote BM24, no one's going to vote for him but you and an afk Marv. Your vote is useless where it is. What do you think about my suspicions about HiroPro? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=21#401 On September 01 2012 09:49 Node wrote: I think it's incredibly silly to say that nobody will vote for BM24 when 5 or so people have already swung on to Hiro very suddenly (and with reasoning as minimal as "yeah, sure, why not?"). But as for your case: I don't think Hiro's done anything explicitly scummy. Yeah, he dropped the case against MM, but seeing as the prevailing opinion now is that MM is safe (otherwise there would be more votes on him), there's nothing wrong with that. His contributions hve been less since then, but I haven't seen anything outright anti-town in his filter (contrast with BM). I've got much stronger scum reads. I'll leave my vote where it is for now. On September 01 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote: There are 2 votes on HiroPro. Don't pull this shit about "5 person voteswing" or whatever - you're being misleading. And MM is not safe. He has 3 votes on him. Are you even reading the thread? I feel like most people ignored this as I did until going back through the filters, but Hapa has a really good point. Node used a false statement to avoid having to implicate himself in either of the mislynches (MMToss or Palmar) that day. The flow of the game was moving away from BMB, and possibly (though unlikely) towards Hiro. Node's explanation was not only exaggerated, but also misrepresented the facts. Both of these things are inadequate to prove Node's scumminess on their own, but I think they support the stronger evidence I provided yesterday. Node's actions make infintely more sense from a scum perspective, and Risen's actions regarding Node support my theory, given what we know. Hopeless1der and marvellosity, I hope you will join me as I ##Vote Node. (I think I added too much color formatting. Sorry about that.) | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I've considered a no-lynch, but in order for it to be successful I believe whoever the Framer is would have to save someone either today or tomorrow (scum has a kill today and another tomorrow, and the kills don't have to occur with the daypost). Maybe this would work, but the chances of Kira not killing the Framer the first night, and the Framer actually selecting the same person as Kira at least once aren't chances I'm particularly hopeful in taking. Do we even have a way to ensure that Hiro didn't choose Kira as the Framer? Overall, I see the best way for town to win is have all three of our votes on a single person at the end of today, so that even when Kira tries to kill one of us, he cannot manipulate the vote. Clearly I believe that that person should be Node. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
There's no way I'm risking that with a no-lynch. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Node it's too late to claim Framer, but uh...WIFOM, something, something, save the day if you're town. What does this even mean? You didn't address marv's concern. Prove that you're town, don't just sheep our votes and then place the "blame" for the lynch in our hands. Your post makes it sound like you're still unsure. I assume that means you think that Node and I are almost equally scummy still, but you're going with what marv and I have decided. You haven't explained any of your actions today aside from what I see as incorrect reasoning regarding a no-lynch. Why did you vote Node, why do you see me as scummy, and why do you seem so indifferent as to who gets lynched? | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I expect a response from Hopeless1der and I'd like to hear marv's thoughts as well. I can't trust Node's words if he's scum nor his reasoning if he's town, so I don't really care much what he says at this point. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 06 2012 10:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Sorry Fuba don't have time right now to give you a real answer and won't be back until after deadline. The game *should* be over tonight unless the Framer saves us. That's why the post you quoted is in there. As for my 2 minute 'explanation' Marv is asleep afaik. I know I'm town. I doubt you guys swap to Marv, but you can't anymore because of plurality lynch. I'm not clear on who's scummier between you and Node. Marv forced my hand by voting Node. Doesn't really matter, I had a really busy day at work (still here btw) so I wouldn't have come up with a read either way. That was part of the reason I wanted to No-Lynch. My "indifference" is guaranteeing that Marv and me CANNOT be lynched based on the voting mechanics, and I think Marv is town (and again, know I'm town). Unless Marv is still awake, there is nothing that can be done to stop this lynch anymore (Unless Kira can in fact shoot us whenever the hell he feels like it) Bolded quote: This is a huge scumslip. You say that the likely outcome is us losing. Why would a townie vote in a way he thinks will make him lose?!? You don't even say "unless Node is Kira, we've lost the game". This sounds like a Kira victory speech more than an explanatory post. Marv are you up? What do you think about this? | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
##Vote Hopeless1der The only thing that would completely throw me off at the moment is if marv is Kira. | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
GG | ||
|
mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
| ||
| ||
