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btw I don't have any special way of knowing whether my hand is town or not. I have a green check on marv, but it doesn't mean much - Kira is probably a godfather considering this setup (lack of RB/framer and the source material).
So you guys should consider him too when you're thinking.
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Yeah I'm still good to lynch Ghost. Zentor's case makes sense to me given the flips so far, then there was ghost's inability to come back with a case against zentor and of course the existing case against him. Unless someone has a solid defense for him or an excellent case on someone else, I'm pretty much leaving my vote where it is.
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forget the connection business. what about ghost makes you think he's scum other than that?
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Well first, I want to flesh out the connection business a bit more:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 31 2012 22:35 ghost_403 wrote: Risen's play this game is a little off from the Risen we all know and love. Not sure exactly why as of yet. Could be it's just been a while since he's played. On August 31 2012 23:27 ghost_403 wrote: Risen is very aggressive in Mafia when he plays town. He's abrasive and abusive and plays hard. In this game, I haven't seen that quite yet. I'm still trying to decide why that is. It could just be that we're 12 hours into the game, and he hasn't had an opportunity to call anyone stupid yet. On September 01 2012 03:49 ghost_403 wrote: Can't change my mind on Risen until he comes back and starts acting more or less Risen. On September 01 2012 09:04 ghost_403 wrote: Next, Risen is a bit off. Everyone said that. Next!
On September 02 2012 00:23 ghost_403 wrote: Hey guys!
Scum: MMToss, Risen, and S+B. I'm not convinced that's the scum team by any stretch, but those are the people in the thread I think are acting scummy. (Side note: I have no idea how many scum there are in this game at all. I'm assuming there is a team?) MMToss is a carry over from yesterday. No part of how the day played out makes me change my opinion on him. S+B, I'll comment on that at the end (new stuff in thread between when I started writing and finished writing).
As far as Risen, Node is right. We have to hold him accountable for his part in the Palmar lynch. As town, Risen is aggressive and abrasive. As scum, Risen worships chaos (See TLM LIII). This is looking a lot more like scum Risen. Pressure him today and watch what happens.
On September 03 2012 04:47 ghost_403 wrote: Also, he completely missed the reason that I though Risen was scum. Risen is not playing to his meta. Based on my own time constraints, I didn't have time to write out to the thread exactly why I believed that. I was putting it out there and hoping someone else would take the time to decide if I was right or wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +Hoping someone else would do my dirty work OH MAH GAD A SCUM RISEN APPEARS. Oh wait: On September 03 2012 04:57 ghost_403 wrote: Risen still seems off to me, and I need to put some time into reading his filter in order to figure out what's going on with him.
NEVERMIND NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
Really soft view of Risen, pretty much all game long. Finally commits to the vote when all seem lost:
On September 04 2012 05:28 ghost_403 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 02:53 Risen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +IAMA Scum Team Member. Ask me anything! ((On a more serious note, gg scum, I honestly didn't see it coming)) 8 hours to endgame? ##vote HiroPro so I can claim I did my best to play to my win condition. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:43 Risen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +EBWOP: I'm L and thought I could trust the cop claim, but didn't want to make him my rhm b/c then a single scum shot wipes out my rhm and my "cop". I'm a "mason" who gets one use per day and only to my rhm who is selected and then can't be changed unless he dies. Picked mamba b/c he was my strongest town read who wasn't liable to get offed immediately. Then I chose marvel b/c I was just hydra'd with him last game and I was getting town vibes off him. The problem with my power is that I only get to send a message for the next day the day before.
I know HiroPro is one of the remaining scum b/c cop checks on me return detective. There are no framers in this setup. There are a lot of ways I could have played this differently and honestly I wish I hadn't been made L b/c I raged a lot day 1 at Palmar. I'm willing to accept a lot of the blame for that lynch and subsequently losing the game, but I think Palmar is just as equally to blame.
Turns out it ISN'T mylo or lylo, but the game is over after I'm lynched by my reasoning.
There's 7 of us left. I think there's 2 scum left (two scum, one traitor makes sense to me balance-wise)
So that makes it 5-2. Mislynch today makes it 4-2, they get one kill tomorrow (I'm sending up fifty prayers it's only one and the other kills the past two days have been traitor and a hidden vig somewhere), makes it 3-2 (Ghost is getting shot if he's town for reasons explained one paragraph down). HiroPro gets lynched, makes it 3-1, now scum just needs one mislynch. 2-1, scum shoots someone, 1-1, game over.
So it turns out it isn't mylo. The remaining townies are going to have a 33% chance if they RNG their target. Odds are that the final four are going to be Node, marvel, fuba, hopeless. Who do you lynch out of that group? None of you have contributed jack shit. It's going to be "Let's play a game called RNG the lurker lynch woooo!"
I screwed up this game. I admit it fully, but at least I didn't screw us over by lurking and creating this stupid situation in the endgame where everyone remaining is a lurker or by trolling day 1 so I get lynched stupidly. Dat pause. ##vote risenAnother stupidly busy day. I'm hoping to be back before the deadline. I'm really interested to know how a town Marv is still alive. FYI, he's my day 4 policy lynch. Gotta look into that.
Ghost still hasn't provided a solid case in this game. We waited too long for his read on MMtoss for that to count. He's planning to 'policy lynch' Marv on Day4. dafuq man. When I said I'd need to see an excellent case on someone else, I'd still consider one if its ghost who makes it, but he's my strongest scumread at the moment.
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Going out now and I'll probably be dead when I wake up tomorrow so last post I guess. I'm not familiar with the play of hopeless, fuba, or Node at all and I don't think I've ever seen ghost play mafia so just keep that in mind.
I think fuba is almost definitely town.
I'd say that hopeless1der is the last scum due to the way that his reads (on Shady/Zentor/ghost) have formed - it doesn't seem natural to me at all.
I'm less sure about this than either my read on s&b or Risen though, and I don't really have the time to fully go through the thread/filters. I already gave you guys the two checks I have.
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I'm incredibly suspicious of Node. His general lurkiness as well as his sudden vote for HiroPro drew me to his one page of filter.
For starters, I'd like to draw attention to these two posts, which I feel were his most substantive posts regarding the SnB lynch. I actually previously felt like they were his most substantial posts of them all (particularly the first one). It seemed to have been well thought out and insightful.
On September 02 2012 11:05 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 10:54 HiroPro wrote:On September 02 2012 10:53 MrZentor wrote: Na, I don't think scum knew he was the traitor. No I don't think so either. But they would have thought he was town and that's where it gets interesting. I disagree strongly. I think s&b's claim was made at least partially to alert scum that he was a traitor. Put yourself in Kira's position -- you're probably aware that you have at least one supporter hidden among the detectives. Who looks most likely? I'd have to imagine it's the person who claims they're going to start appearing red at some point to checks.
On September 02 2012 11:30 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:24 Shady Sands wrote:On September 02 2012 11:21 Risen wrote:On September 02 2012 11:20 Shady Sands wrote:On September 02 2012 11:17 Risen wrote:If I can find something that tells me sab is traitor, that means anyone else can as well. I swear I'm the only one who puts effort into these games. From a game I watched called Bureaucracy. The second I saw HiroPro call sab out for lying/inconsistency I reread sab's filter and the green red thing clicked in my mind so I searched for traitor in the TL search bar. Lo and behold. + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:Awesome on two counts! I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust. Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop: Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote: Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote: I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx. Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge. + Show Spoiler +On August 31 2012 17:27 strongandbig wrote: Good morning, everyone!
So I've been reading some discussion about this from past games, and I've decided to come forth and claim. I am a self-aware miller.
I'm going to use this post to explain myself and my claim. Hopefully I'll do it well, but I'll also do my best to respond to questions, as well as just to establish my townieness through my play.
So first off, why claim now? Well, it's clearly now or never. Millers claiming after they're checked are completely useless - in fact, they're worse than useless since they give actual scum cover to hide and potentially waste a lynch.
Second, why claim at all? Well, the main reason is that everyone in this game is a detective.
Usually, the main miller mechanic is that the presence of millers puts some doubt on a DT check and people actually have to discuss it. In a game with 30 people and one or two each of detectives and millers, it's pretty unlikely that the miller actually gets targeted with a DT check. (Unless you have a troll host who makes like the best three townies non-self-aware millers, thank you very much BC.)
But, like I said, in this game everyone is a detective. I know VTs don't get to actually make DT checks - I guess Zeph wasn't lying when he said he would send everyone in the game a copy of the VT role PM. However, in a setup where everyone is a "detective", I expect that there will be a large number of roles which actually do have DT checks. This means that it's much more likely than normal for a miller to get DT checked.
So, it's more important than usual for millers to claim early in this setup. If a non-claimed miller gets DT checked and returns scum, it just fucks with the town and could potentially waste an entire day's lynch. It's much better for the millers to claim on day 1 and then show they're town through their behavior. Like I said before, people claiming miller after day 1 are actively playing anti-town and should be destroyed.
So finally, what should this mean for the town and for me? Well, it obviously puts an onus on me to show I'm town through my play. That's fine, I'm going to do my best to live up to that. It is a very exciting time for my experiment, but I can and will post as much as I can from work, as well as both before and after work. I'm also going to do my best to find scum (although historically I tend to be more successful at judging other peoples' cases and less at making my own, but that's why we have other players to judge my cases as well).
For the rest of the town - it means you have to think critically about what I say. Am I pushing scum objectives? If so, lynch me. Am I promoting useful discussion that gets info out into the thread, or am I promoting trolling, spam, and ragefests? If any of the latter, lynch me. Are my cases good or bad? If they're bad, don't lynch me - bad cases =\= scum. Just tell me why you think they're bad, and see how I respond.
It also means you have to think critically about what other people are saying about me. Putting myself out as a miller should naturally draw attention to me, and that's something scum could try and piggy-back or bandwagon on. If people say I'm scum, think critically about their cases and their motivations.
So let's go town!
PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all.
PRE-EDIT TWO: I AM IN EUROPE. This means I will be asleep for deadline; it's at 4:30AM my time. I'll do my best to compensate for this during the days here.See any similarities? I wasn't going to say anything, though, because I wanted to see whether a save attempt would come, and guess what? Come it did. Had it built any real steam I would have pointed this out and we would have gotten the sab lynch. Now we have scum who tripped over themselves to try and save the traitor. I'm not even convinced there wasn't a scum guy on sab waiting for one of us to unvote sab so they could come in and be "convinced" as well. I think the clear lynch is going to be among the list of people who were trying to save sab, though. What makes you think the scumteam would want to *save* a possible traitor? I can't even tell if this is a real question or not. This is a real question. Let's say scumteam saves a traitor by going all out and all voting for an innocent townie. Townie flips green. Wouldn't the town then proceed to lynch the traitor the next day, and the proceed to lynch the rest of the scumteam for that? Now think about it this way: scum always needs to build towncred. But building towncred via bussing means sacrificing a contributing scum member. Instead, why not sacrifice a traitor whom the team can't communicate with, and whom the town already suspects? Well, for starters, it's entirely possible that s&b was, in fact, communicating with the scum team. Show nested quote +Every cycle, you can check a player by PMing all hosts. If that player is Kira, you gain rights to communicate with him and his allies. If that player is the Head Investigator, however, he will be notified that you were stalking him. It's also possible (though less likely) that Kira had some method of checking if someone is a traitor, which the claim would've baited out quickly. They appear to be meant in an attempt to help town, but if given even 5 minutes of thought I feel like most town would see following this course of reasoning to be full of unsupportable WIFOM. Trying to gain anything from the speculation of whether SnB found Kira, and then on top of that speculating on how the scum would react to SnB's impending lynch is a complete waste of time.
This may not point to Node being scum, but it does pretty much indicate that these posts were useless despite appearing to be meaningful contributions (at least to little old newbie me). They also support Risen's strong pursuit of that line of reasoning, and as we know he was scum. As for its insightfulness, it's not particularly insightful to give reads from Kira's point of view when you are Kira. He could support the misleads that Risen was encouraging without actually sticking his head out while appearing townish at the same time.
Most significantly, there's also the fact that earlier in the game he says that he doesn't see anything scummy about Hiro, then votes for Risen. In the most recent vote, when we're all diving on top of Risen, he suddenly finds Hiro to be more scummy. He doesn't explain this, or at least tries to explain it extremely poorly in his single post from yesterday. Why is he suddenly not believing HiroPro when he states in his reasoning for the MrZentor lynch that he's "...going to have to go with L and Hiro on [that] one."? His reads are completely inconsistent, his reasoning is incredibly lacking, and he is supporting discussion that doesn't lead to catching scum.
Node is scum.
##Vote Node
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posting from my phone. leaning town on ghost/marv btw. kinda mixed on Node. realized I didn't mention those.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 04 2012 14:11 mkfuba07 wrote:I'm incredibly suspicious of Node. His general lurkiness as well as his sudden vote for HiroPro drew me to his one page of filter. For starters, I'd like to draw attention to these two posts, which I feel were his most substantive posts regarding the SnB lynch. I actually previously felt like they were his most substantial posts of them all (particularly the first one). It seemed to have been well thought out and insightful. Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:05 Node wrote:On September 02 2012 10:54 HiroPro wrote:On September 02 2012 10:53 MrZentor wrote: Na, I don't think scum knew he was the traitor. No I don't think so either. But they would have thought he was town and that's where it gets interesting. I disagree strongly. I think s&b's claim was made at least partially to alert scum that he was a traitor. Put yourself in Kira's position -- you're probably aware that you have at least one supporter hidden among the detectives. Who looks most likely? I'd have to imagine it's the person who claims they're going to start appearing red at some point to checks. Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 11:30 Node wrote:On September 02 2012 11:24 Shady Sands wrote:On September 02 2012 11:21 Risen wrote:On September 02 2012 11:20 Shady Sands wrote:On September 02 2012 11:17 Risen wrote:If I can find something that tells me sab is traitor, that means anyone else can as well. I swear I'm the only one who puts effort into these games. From a game I watched called Bureaucracy. The second I saw HiroPro call sab out for lying/inconsistency I reread sab's filter and the green red thing clicked in my mind so I searched for traitor in the TL search bar. Lo and behold. + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:Awesome on two counts! I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust. Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop: Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote: Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote: I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx. Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge. + Show Spoiler +On August 31 2012 17:27 strongandbig wrote: Good morning, everyone!
So I've been reading some discussion about this from past games, and I've decided to come forth and claim. I am a self-aware miller.
I'm going to use this post to explain myself and my claim. Hopefully I'll do it well, but I'll also do my best to respond to questions, as well as just to establish my townieness through my play.
So first off, why claim now? Well, it's clearly now or never. Millers claiming after they're checked are completely useless - in fact, they're worse than useless since they give actual scum cover to hide and potentially waste a lynch.
Second, why claim at all? Well, the main reason is that everyone in this game is a detective.
Usually, the main miller mechanic is that the presence of millers puts some doubt on a DT check and people actually have to discuss it. In a game with 30 people and one or two each of detectives and millers, it's pretty unlikely that the miller actually gets targeted with a DT check. (Unless you have a troll host who makes like the best three townies non-self-aware millers, thank you very much BC.)
But, like I said, in this game everyone is a detective. I know VTs don't get to actually make DT checks - I guess Zeph wasn't lying when he said he would send everyone in the game a copy of the VT role PM. However, in a setup where everyone is a "detective", I expect that there will be a large number of roles which actually do have DT checks. This means that it's much more likely than normal for a miller to get DT checked.
So, it's more important than usual for millers to claim early in this setup. If a non-claimed miller gets DT checked and returns scum, it just fucks with the town and could potentially waste an entire day's lynch. It's much better for the millers to claim on day 1 and then show they're town through their behavior. Like I said before, people claiming miller after day 1 are actively playing anti-town and should be destroyed.
So finally, what should this mean for the town and for me? Well, it obviously puts an onus on me to show I'm town through my play. That's fine, I'm going to do my best to live up to that. It is a very exciting time for my experiment, but I can and will post as much as I can from work, as well as both before and after work. I'm also going to do my best to find scum (although historically I tend to be more successful at judging other peoples' cases and less at making my own, but that's why we have other players to judge my cases as well).
For the rest of the town - it means you have to think critically about what I say. Am I pushing scum objectives? If so, lynch me. Am I promoting useful discussion that gets info out into the thread, or am I promoting trolling, spam, and ragefests? If any of the latter, lynch me. Are my cases good or bad? If they're bad, don't lynch me - bad cases =\= scum. Just tell me why you think they're bad, and see how I respond.
It also means you have to think critically about what other people are saying about me. Putting myself out as a miller should naturally draw attention to me, and that's something scum could try and piggy-back or bandwagon on. If people say I'm scum, think critically about their cases and their motivations.
So let's go town!
PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all.
PRE-EDIT TWO: I AM IN EUROPE. This means I will be asleep for deadline; it's at 4:30AM my time. I'll do my best to compensate for this during the days here.See any similarities? I wasn't going to say anything, though, because I wanted to see whether a save attempt would come, and guess what? Come it did. Had it built any real steam I would have pointed this out and we would have gotten the sab lynch. Now we have scum who tripped over themselves to try and save the traitor. I'm not even convinced there wasn't a scum guy on sab waiting for one of us to unvote sab so they could come in and be "convinced" as well. I think the clear lynch is going to be among the list of people who were trying to save sab, though. What makes you think the scumteam would want to *save* a possible traitor? I can't even tell if this is a real question or not. This is a real question. Let's say scumteam saves a traitor by going all out and all voting for an innocent townie. Townie flips green. Wouldn't the town then proceed to lynch the traitor the next day, and the proceed to lynch the rest of the scumteam for that? Now think about it this way: scum always needs to build towncred. But building towncred via bussing means sacrificing a contributing scum member. Instead, why not sacrifice a traitor whom the team can't communicate with, and whom the town already suspects? Well, for starters, it's entirely possible that s&b was, in fact, communicating with the scum team. Every cycle, you can check a player by PMing all hosts. If that player is Kira, you gain rights to communicate with him and his allies. If that player is the Head Investigator, however, he will be notified that you were stalking him. It's also possible (though less likely) that Kira had some method of checking if someone is a traitor, which the claim would've baited out quickly. They appear to be meant in an attempt to help town, but if given even 5 minutes of thought I feel like most town would see following this course of reasoning to be full of unsupportable WIFOM. Trying to gain anything from the speculation of whether SnB found Kira, and then on top of that speculating on how the scum would react to SnB's impending lynch is a complete waste of time. This may not point to Node being scum, but it does pretty much indicate that these posts were useless despite appearing to be meaningful contributions (at least to little old newbie me). They also support Risen's strong pursuit of that line of reasoning, and as we know he was scum. As for its insightfulness, it's not particularly insightful to give reads from Kira's point of view when you are Kira. He could support the misleads that Risen was encouraging without actually sticking his head out while appearing townish at the same time. Most significantly, there's also the fact that earlier in the game he says that he doesn't see anything scummy about Hiro, then votes for Risen. In the most recent vote, when we're all diving on top of Risen, he suddenly finds Hiro to be more scummy. He doesn't explain this, or at least tries to explain it extremely poorly in his single post from yesterday. Why is he suddenly not believing HiroPro when he states in his reasoning for the MrZentor lynch that he's "...going to have to go with L and Hiro on [that] one."? His reads are completely inconsistent, his reasoning is incredibly lacking, and he is supporting discussion that doesn't lead to catching scum.Node is scum. ##Vote Node
I agree with a lot of this case. But why would Node draw attention to himself by voting Hiro when it was clear a switch off Risen wasn't going to happen?
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That is one thing that I'm really not too sure about. It's possible that it was just so that we would ask that question, though that's just WIFOM. Essentially, I see little reason for him to vote for HiroPro as town, and I see some good reasons for him to not vote for Risen as scum. I need to catch a bus to class atm, but I'll try to add some theory for Node's Hiro vote when I get there. It would be easier to figure this out if Node posted to explain his sudden switch, but I'm not letting him off the hook just because lurking appears to be part of his meta. As it stands, I think my answer will be pretty WIFOM-y, but the question marv raised had been on my mind as well.
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HiroPro is town.
Node is town.
Hopeless1der is on the scummy side of null.
Marv is on the "why the hell is he still here" side of null.
mkfuba07 is on the newbie side of null.
I'm going to spend some time reading through hopeless' previous games. I know he rolled town in NMM XXII, so that's gonna be the first place I look.
Sorry again for my activity this game. Life, the universe, and everything has conspired against me.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Any explanation on why you think Node is town?
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Between posts like this:
On September 01 2012 12:35 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 12:07 Risen wrote: I'm going to be auto-voting lurkers after today (or maybe even today if the low posting keeps up from you, Node, Marvel, and anyone else I'm missing) >says he's going to start voting for lurkers >voted for Palmar Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 11:35 Risen wrote: Well I can't say I'm surprised. Hope you learn your lesson. ahahahahahahahahaha You're mafia trying to distance yourself from the lynch. Hell, you were trying to do this before Palmar even died, when you were the person who made the initial case on him... yet your vote stayed where it was. You made literally a single post against Shady Sands, and from then on it was nothing but Palmar -- then you said oh-said-regretfully that you weren't moving from Palmar because your "real read" never got traction. Ridiculous. ##vote Risen
And his general demeanor all game, I think it's kind of obvious. Like I said before, Node has been assertive and aggressive all game. His thread presence has been lackluster, but he's made an effort to think critically about the game every step of the way. When scum lurk, they come back stating the obvious to make it look like they're contributing. Node thinks too much to be lurking scum.
Marv, what are you thinking about hopeless? Weren't you the cohost in NMMXXII?
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That, and he's right about Hiro. It's really fucking strange that he's not dead yet. If he really is scum, and he got here by bussing literally his entire team, I'll give him the win.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 04 2012 23:26 ghost_403 wrote:Between posts like this: Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 12:35 Node wrote:On September 01 2012 12:07 Risen wrote: I'm going to be auto-voting lurkers after today (or maybe even today if the low posting keeps up from you, Node, Marvel, and anyone else I'm missing) >says he's going to start voting for lurkers >voted for Palmar On September 01 2012 11:35 Risen wrote: Well I can't say I'm surprised. Hope you learn your lesson. ahahahahahahahahaha You're mafia trying to distance yourself from the lynch. Hell, you were trying to do this before Palmar even died, when you were the person who made the initial case on him... yet your vote stayed where it was. You made literally a single post against Shady Sands, and from then on it was nothing but Palmar -- then you said oh-said-regretfully that you weren't moving from Palmar because your "real read" never got traction. Ridiculous. ##vote Risen And his general demeanor all game, I think it's kind of obvious. Like I said before, Node has been assertive and aggressive all game. His thread presence has been lackluster, but he's made an effort to think critically about the game every step of the way. When scum lurk, they come back stating the obvious to make it look like they're contributing. Node thinks too much to be lurking scum.Marv, what are you thinking about hopeless? Weren't you the cohost in NMMXXII?
On September 04 2012 23:27 ghost_403 wrote: That, and he's right about Hiro. It's really fucking strange that he's not dead yet. If he really is scum, and he got here by bussing literally his entire team, I'll give him the win.
Hopeless didn't play in XXII? You're attributing to Node a playstyle based on how you think scum 'would' or 'should' play. My first bold in your post is practically a contradiction. What's the use in being assertive/aggressive in the occasional post if you're not going to actually push anything through? Why does he have to be stereotypical lurking scum?
To the 2nd, yeah, Hiro's not dead yet. What I find disconcerting about your posts is that you twice took the time to insidiously stress "why is marv alive" and yet this is the first time you mention that Hiro, claimed cop/L/mason/vigi/poobah is still alive.
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I definitely hosted a game with Hopeless1der... maybe it was NMMXIX. brb.
And yes, I am basing my opinion on node based on how I think scum 'would' or 'should' play. I'm pretty sure all of the guides tell you that's a pretty good way to hunt for scum. And I don't see a contradiction between those two bolded parts. Node isn't here often, but when he is, he's loud.
And Marv, you'll always be my Day 4 policy lynch <3
But seriously, why are you still here? You made such a fuss replacing into Wiggles Mafia that after 28 hours in the game, you were shot by scum. Your filter this game is about the same length as that one, but you've been here for significantly longer. What's up with that, Marv?
Still haven't answered my question. What are your thoughts on Hopeless?
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Hopeless did play in NMMXIX. Rolled VT. His filter looks substantially different, but I haven't had time to figure out why yet.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On September 04 2012 23:51 ghost_403 wrote: I definitely hosted a game with Hopeless1der... maybe it was NMMXIX. brb.
And yes, I am basing my opinion on node based on how I think scum 'would' or 'should' play. I'm pretty sure all of the guides tell you that's a pretty good way to hunt for scum. And I don't see a contradiction between those two bolded parts. Node isn't here often, but when he is, he's loud.
And Marv, you'll always be my Day 4 policy lynch <3
But seriously, why are you still here? You made such a fuss replacing into Wiggles Mafia that after 28 hours in the game, you were shot by scum. Your filter this game is about the same length as that one, but you've been here for significantly longer. What's up with that, Marv?
Still haven't answered my question. What are your thoughts on Hopeless?
Easy to pop into the thread, shout about stuff, but not stick around to push it, hmm?
Why am I still alive? Why is Hiro still alive? How am I supposed to answer that? Why are you comparing incomparable games (large normal vs mini themed). Given that you know of the game, you should also know that I came into that town with the town in TOTAL disarray, and I had to work like fuck to get a lynch and try to get town being productive, a case not similar to here.
Hopeless' filter reads less scummily to Node's for me. His Palmar vote was bad but was explained by him as that he had a townier read on Mementoss (something I firmly agreed with). His scummiest action is lazily voting for you based on Zentor's connection theory.
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His scummiest action is lazily voting for you based on Zentor's connection theory.
yaaaaaa
hm, if I was part of the scum team, I wouldn't put everyone on Palmar. At the same time I wouldn't not want to lynch Palmar.
Hmmmm
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One thing that did occur to me - and this may just be me being self-centered - but Node's vote came after I removed my vote from Risen but before I had replaced it. This was in no way a plan on my part, but you can see where scum may be motivated to try to save their scumpartner and essentially win the game when someone shows signs of potentially letting them do it. He may have been distancing himself from Risen earlier without feeling as though Risen was actually going to be lynched, but later when Risen's head was on the block, he saw an opportunity to save his scumpartner and went for it.
I see this possibility - WIFOM-y as it may be - more likely than a townie just flip-flopping completely on his read (hiro-town/Risen-scum -> Risen-town/Hiro-scum) for any of the reasons Node presented in his single post from D4. The reasons for town Node doing what he did are almost non-existent compared to the reasons that scum-Node would have done so.
As for Hiro still being alive all this time, he said they tried to kill him last night. Until D4, he was just the "cop". The fact that L previously mentioned a "servant" may have made them think that Hiro wasn't actually L, but one of his underlings. After he roleclaimed and subsequently revealed that there was no servant, they tried to take him out. The fact that there was no scumkill confirms this for me. The only other option is that Hiro is an absolutely diabolical mastermind, the real L was killed and for some reason has left behind a VT role PM (hence no one else to claim L from him), AND Hiro decided to give up his scumkill today in order to claim that he was shot but didn't die. Far more likely: scum was confused, and Hiro is L.
As an aside, I'm wondering if there are actually 2 scum remaining. My first paragraph only grows stronger if the scumteam felt that they only had to convince one person instead of two (making the vote 4-3 for Hiro with one less town vote). I'm also not sure what the balance would be in a game like this, so maybe someone experienced could provide some input as long as it doesn't distract from scumhunting. It could make sense to me in a setup with 15 players that there are 4 scum as long as one is a traitor.
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They shot me yesterday not today.
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