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I am going to consolidate my vote onto gravan. Some extremely negative personal shit happened this evening. I don;t really want to get into it but mafia is not high on my priorities right now. Should be somewhat better tomorrow.
##Unvote
##Vote: Gravan
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On September 14 2012 22:56 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 22:46 Bill Murray wrote:
It is a reaction test. Gravan is possibly blue, and is so in 33% of the scenarios I can think of
However, you are 100% scum, Shady Sands You said Gravan was town and blue, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. No possibly, nothing like that. So the question is: why do we not lynch Gravan?
I was reaction testing you in relation to the two lurkers
you failed
youre scum
we're lynching you, not gravan.
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Darthpunk, Shady Sands, Sloosh
all scum
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ANOTHER PLAYER WHO LOOKS SCUMMY:
hopeless1der
he has been generally inactive, only to sheep onto wagons.
Most of his longer posts are nightkill analysis, as opposed to scumhunting
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Ok, time to catch up on things....
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taken directly from the votethread:
On September 15 2012 00:45 Quatol wrote:
Vote Count:
Gravan (6) : imallinson, Shady Sands, slOosh, ShiaoPi, Toadesstern, Darth Punk
Maverick32x (4) : strongandbig, Hopeless1der, grush57, Mementoss
Shady Sands (2) : Gravan, Bill Murray
ShiaoPi (1) : Maverick32x
Yet to vote: Rewok, Kreb
Currently Gravan is set to be lynched. 6 and a quarter hours to deadline!
What this tells me is mainly that I don't necessarily want to lynch into Mementoss or Mav today.
That leaves us with Gravan or a voteswitch to Shady Sands from my point of view.
What it also tells me is that I really don't like any of you guys right now, which makes it quite hard for me and I'm getting paranoid as well, which probably is the reason why people get the "Toad is seemingly willing to lynch a bunch of people" feel today, because it really is that way.
The people I'm not willing to lynch aren't on the "do not lynch"-list because I've got townreads on them at all. They're on that list for different reasons.
I'm gone in roughly two hours from the time of this post. If you want to say something, say it now. I am interested in hearing your thoughts about todays lynch. I don't mind if you repeat yourself and re-post cases or something like that. I want to know what people are doing right now.
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This is ridiculous. Nobody else is being looked at except for Maverick and I. The case against me is, quite frankly, weak - it is based on a poor day one post and a low-activity level. My activity level when I actually had time (the BKE lynch) was quite a bit higher - this is completely ignored.
By the logic presented here, we should be lynching Rewok before me (has contributed less, similar shifty day one posts). Or, at the very least, if the lynch is SET on me, other targets should be considered for the same reasons. Why is there a shift to pseudo-policy lynching on day four?
In the last few pages, Shady Sands has contributed nothing. He repeadedly says "Why not Gravan" as if there is no burden of proof on the accuser. This isn't a proper lynch; this is a scum driven lynch hunt, or a very confused and sheepy town mindlessly following Shady.
His attempts at keeping the lynch on me are absolutley baseless - he is abusing the fact that this town likes to sheep.
Point #1:
On September 14 2012 20:09 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 12:14 slOosh wrote:
Guhh ... why do you guys wait until now to play properly?
What Maverick did just now was a very very town thing. Feigning activity and making cases is easy. Calling the runner up lynch candidate town when you have the most votes is not. The only motivation to do that is that you are town, and you think this person is town. You can see that he doesn't value his specific survival over the town's interests. His case really shows his thinking process and also clarifies past contradictions (e.g. he left out Graven from his scum reads) - consistency like this is hard to setup as scum.
Gravan ... it's really weird with him. As Maverick points out he is playing consistently (regardless of quality). I remember thinking he was newbie town making lots of mistakes, and it could be he is scummy because of this. Also strange is the nature of the maverick counter wagon. Still thinking this one through.
ShiaoPi: his treatment of Mav is townish. Timezones are timezones. Select stuff in his filter make me think he is town and explain his actions but will not divulge unless there is a large enough body of evidence against him.
This leaves me with two people:
SnB has not cared at all about the past two lynches. You can see from his filter that he jumps on the Forumite lynch with little to contribute while also discrediting Rewok. He jumps on the maverick lynch with little to add and also makes sure people know that everyone could be scum ("MMT made the case on Mav but you never know maybe he is scum"). His latest posts are pure setup speculation. He treats Toad very strangely - I'm not sure if he thinks Toad might be scum and hunting for reactions or he is pretending to engage in meaningful conversation.
Toad is someone who has flared up upon a proper reread of the Z-Boson mad hatter business. I originally thought him town after our little spat at the start of the game. However if you reread his filter carefully, you will notice that he uses "vet balance" to get Forumite lynched, but after that he says "oh I guess I was wrong, oh well". He seemed to taunt Z-boson near deadline and called for vig shots on him even if he was town because he would die anyway. I know I said mafia wouldn't kill a potential mad hatter but I forgot that there is a very good chance of a roleblocker in the game, as we still don't know about austin's 2nd shot. I find the explanations for his dismissal of SnB and BM to be beyond just strange, as he is ignoring possible scum on raw setup speculation.
Thoughts please, we need to get this lynch right. Sloosh, I don't get your read on Gravan. Why is your view shifting to town? Also, why are you making town less focused and urging town to examine different candidates with less than 24 hours to go in the votecycle? Are you deliberately trying to spread the votes out so you and your scumbuddies can wagon better?
Tries to close alternate lynching discussion.
Point #2:
On September 14 2012 20:16 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 20:13 Bill Murray wrote:
As for ACTIVE players, I'd like to lynch Kreb. He flip flopped saying I'm town, then went to wanting to lynch me and grush... over our PLAYSTYLE? Seems like scum pushing policy as opposed to having any semblance of logic. He also wants to lynch Gravan, who, while I suspected early is still primarily a policy lynch... but days after it should have occurred, if it was going to. It just seems like he's sheeping the reads he picks up on in the thread on townies/Power Roles.
in Kreb's scumhunting case, you don't see him focus on 1 candidate as a town role would, but rather highlight players black like scum would, as per hunting assassins. He does put players like myself and Gravan in red.
Another point is his interaction with Austin. He was getting information off Austin in response to his read on me (which he flipflopped on in 10 minutes? get real), and Toad. It just feels really fishy. Sometimes, words fall short.
Would love to lynch Kreb
BM, I'm not sure why you're so certain that Grav is a policy lynch. As I've said before, he lies, he actively lurks, he sheeped a mislynch with super-poor reasoning--what else do you want? Furthermore, even if your view is that Kreb is scum, let Kreb wait until tomorrow. Today is for Grav, and we lynch the bastard.
I have not lied anywhere. Once again, the evidence for this is simply lacking - he is trying to make a case with a goal in mind, not make a case based on strong evidence.
Point #3:
On September 14 2012 21:49 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 21:46 Toadesstern wrote:
I read it and he's right you are.
I doubt you'd be rolefishing so openly as mafia though.
Obviously a mafia would want to know whether the townie (assuming you are mafia and BM is town) is right or just found some bullshit to figure out if a kill is on *supposed to be blue* is needed or good. I'd say a mafia is going to read the filter or tell his buddies about it so that they read it (because people are lazy).
Townies sadly end up rolefishing quite a lot in games because they think that will somehow improve their reads on someone or they think that everything somehow makes sense once you figured that out.
So I'm not giving to much into you rolefishing although you are. Toad, how am I rolefishing? I've been pushing a Grav wagon for 20+ hours now, and BM said we shouldn't lynch Grav because he is blue. I went in and asked why he thought Grav was blue, because if BM doesn't give me any reasons why he thinks Grav is blue AKA not scum, then how can I persuade BM that Grav is scum?
He role fishes, then hurriedly tries to hide it by repeating, over and over again, his question at Bill Murray.
Seriously guys, this is straight-up silly.
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My best guess is that the scum Shady is suicidally trying to get me lynched (reading his posts, he is absolutely hell-bent and immovable on lynching me) so that mafia can gently bus him tomorrow. This way they'll be able to blend in by casting suspicions on him and a day will be wasted.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
@Gravan
Why do you keep insisting that the case against you is only based on day 1 and lurking when that isn't true. Also Shady isn't the only one to make a case against you.
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On September 14 2012 20:12 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 14:06 strongandbig wrote:
We should be killing Mav today.
He hasn't made a real read all game, and now comes out with a town-case on Gravan. We still don't have any scumhunting out of him, and town cases are easy for scum to make. I think he saw the writing on the wall and this is a ploy, and we shouldn't fall for it. It's not a case where the only motive was town; it's also very smart scum play, regardless of Gravan's alignment. A push on Gravan by Mav would just be dismissed, so this is his top option. Good point. But I think we should still lynch Grav first, and Mav later. My read on Mav has slipped into scum territory after his soft defense of Gravan. I don't understand why he would try so hard to cast Grav's actions in the light of being a newbie town... then at the very end say Grav is either town or scum trying to look newbie, and he can't tell which. Soft defense at its finest.
SnB's point is awful and you have fallen into confirmation bias at this point. If you are gonna go calling all town actions as "very smart play", then you disperse doubt and mistrust between players.
I'm finding him to be much more likely to flip scum. And you also look terrible for getting so jumpy that I'm shifting my view. If I think the lynch candidates are all town of course I'm going to look elsewhere.
Need to review later when I get time but right now my lynch preference is SnB, then SS then Gravan.
##Unvote: Gravan
##Vote: Shady Sands
On September 14 2012 17:48 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 13:00 slOosh wrote:
For Rewok it's looking a lot like Graven. It's his first game and he does show uncertainty at the earlier stages. My feeling is that he is overwhelmed by the unnatural amount of things in this game (flipping scum N1, getting multiple washout mislynches , people like Grush and BM getting ignored) that he has just given up and fallen back on sheeping, which is a very understandable thing for a lost townie to do.
SnB and Toad are not as easily excused as they have many games under their belt and are capable of so much more, and yet are completely apathetic and are not contributing to finding and lynching scum. How am I getting ignored, when you even talking about Rewok to Sloosh comes from MY case on him?
Cause I think you are town? What?
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I find it interesting that the two top candidates for a lynch haven't voted for each other. This doesn't really make sense from a town perspective. If you are town you know 100% you are town and the same cannot be said for the other person. Surely in that case it is better for town to lynch the person you are not 100% sure is town. The only reason you wouldn't want to vote for the other person close to being lynched is if you were both scum. It's very unlikely at this point that shady or shiao are going to get lynched yet mav and gravan have their votes on them.
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On September 15 2012 01:36 imallinson wrote:
@Gravan
Why do you keep insisting that the case against you is only based on day 1 and lurking when that isn't true. Also Shady isn't the only one to make a case against you.
Then what is it? Really? What are the strong points out there?
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
... and then sloosh ninjas me and makes a shady lynch much more possible.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 15 2012 01:51 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 01:36 imallinson wrote:
@Gravan
Why do you keep insisting that the case against you is only based on day 1 and lurking when that isn't true. Also Shady isn't the only one to make a case against you. Then what is it? Really? What are the strong points out there?
Well I'd like to know about this. + Show Spoiler +On September 13 2012 03:04 imallinson wrote:I was really suspicious of him night 1, he was one of my top scum reads due then. I kind of forgot about him after that because he started actually contributing a bit and the BKE case was much stronger. The way he dealt with the day 3 voting has made me suspicious of him again. Before the start of day 3 he says how much he dislikes the meta arguments + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:
There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. . The first thing we get day 3 is this + Show Spoiler +On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote:
At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows?
Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. which seems to be the opposite of what he said in the previous post. If you look at what BM, Z-Boson and Forumite actually posted this game BM is by far the most scummy looking. It's only if you look at the meta argument that this changes. Yet Gravan votes for Forumite anyway. I look at that and see someone who tried to look like they were contributing in the first post then trying to hide and sheep the popular vote in the second which seems awfully scummy.
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Ok, first my vote so thats clear to the rest of you: #Vote Gravan
Because
- I already mentioned him in my previous post
- His defense was, imo, lacking
- The main voting targets are Mav and SS, which I already explained I dont wanna vote on. I'll also add to Mav that his defense was much better than Gravans (mainly this post)
+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2012 09:00 Maverick32x wrote:Read through the case on me- There is a LOT of tunneling going on.... Also why are people STILL bringing up Matt?? My 'soft defense' occurred prior to any confirmation that he was lying... once that was confirmed.. I switched. Simple enough. As for my "blaming the lurkers is an easy strategy"- There is something unique about those top 3 that I find is different than just 'lurking'.... there is something about the frequency of posts and the disappearance of them.... I know thats not the concrete answer you guys want, so I'll try to get some 'science' to back that feeling up. Voting me is a mistake. I am a plain boring vanilla town. I just really can't understand how ShiaoPi is not scum to more people? Okay, his 'timezone' presents as an issue to discussion.... and I'll even move past the lurking to be more specific in his posts. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:17 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? no...that kind of defeats the purpose Lets bring it ALL the way back... He is backing up Matt's encouragement for others to claim. How is this LESS scummy than me soft defending someone who I didn't know I was lying? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 15:17 ShiaoPi wrote:
No disrespect meant to you rewok, but what the fuck is a list full of null-reads supposed to do? It is on the first hand piling up the the thread like crazy and secondly it gives us 0 information...you are simply rehashing what happened in the thread so far.
That entire post can be summarized into: "I have no clue about you guys, mind helping to lynch scum?"
Seriously.....dafuq Right, Rewok's decision to do this sucks. Doesn't seem like Rewok and him are connected based off that post. I highlight this post mainly due to the relationship that is seen here. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:39 ShiaoPi wrote:
can you just shut up ottox, it gets annoying to see you harping around the same obvious nonsense all thread long.... Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:55 ShiaoPi wrote:@Ottox: thanks, have a good night and just cut it >_> @Hapa: Besides the ones that have been called out already (e.g. Ottox, goodkarma, Milton, all leaning scum for me, maybe with the exception of Ottox...) I do not really have some at the moment. Austin is way more inactive from the town-austin I know but that's a kind of weak meta argument right now. Also I am still waiting on Gravan On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:
The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. Both of these posts were made prior to Ottox's (town) death. ALSO, His statement of Ottox (town), Goodkarama(scum) and Milton (personally I think town) are leaning scum... but he 'excuses' Ottox.... LIKELY because he knows that Ottox is on the chopping block. Also, as pointed out previously, it is typical for scum to post a list, and sprinkle in scum buddies. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 16:53 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Shiaopi
Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Internet is unstable as of now, dunno if it will get better. If you are concerned about my meta you should probably read TL Mafia LV instead, since dwarf fortress was a mini, but anyway. Gravan has gone to sleep apparently without doing his promised post, which is something I really don't like... Comments made about his lack of meta- these are covered up by "Internet problems" However, observations made about his meta. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 11:23 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP:
I just woke up and read through.
Matt flipped red as everyone (bar Ottox) expected, so I'll be talking about him first.
To be honest I thought for a while that Ottoxlol is just bad townie, but having caught up with the thread, naaah he is like 99%
red. Hopefully a vig shoots him tonight, so he's gone.
Also Gravan has finally done some contribution beyond Mattchew stuff, but I am not impressed at all. It feels like it was a
case for sake of writing a case on somebody to get off some pressure which has started on you. He should either be a town
kill at night or lynched tomorrow if it stays this way with all the points in thread already.
Ending the post with some comments on the cases we got this night so far. DYH brought up Hopeless1der as a candidate. Reading Hopeless' filter there is some merit to DYH's accusation, but I am not entirely sold on him being scum.
Hapa also brought out quite a switch from DrH/Blackmamba in opinion so I am interested in hearing his answer to it as well.
Looked a lot like his town play though so maybe he got some good explanation for it.
Also shouldn't lvdr be modkilled by now? no posts at all.
Him and lvdr are likely not connected- again, just another relationship point. Also, Hapa becomes his new target at this point. Similar to Ottox, he starts to pick up speed on targeting him. -He goes into a string of 1 liners at this point- likely due to my confrontation with him.- But then Hapa makes a decent post attacking him. On September 09 2012 12:44 Hapahauli wrote:
1) ShiaoPi has a reasonably active town-meta. ShiaoPi has no scum meta.
2) ShiaoPi is hardcore lurking this game, "internet issues" cited, but were not mentioned pre-game (odd, considering severity). His activity is very different from his 6 town games.
He certainly hasn't posted anything that makes me think he's town. Some other newer players have posts that show effort, but ShiaoPi has shown none. As far as I'm concerned, the above makes him scummy. If he'd like to defend himself and convince me otherwise, he should take the opportunity to do so.
Should I hold your hand too, or will that suffice?I don't want to post the WHOLE quote from Shiao- you can look it up, but again with an excuse of internet problems and a post pretty much just defending himself from Hapa who attacks him pretty hard.... Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 19:27 ShiaoPi wrote:
I would see Hapa as town. His reasoning was solid for most parts and I can understand his frustration with the game since he led a mislynch. Also his "selectiveness" reads to me as focusing on one read at a time which does not sound too bad with me. Got to go now though Similar with Ottox- ShiaoPi decides to absolve Hapa and declare him TOWN. oh ya... Hapa dies that night..... .... .... ..... Seems similar to the Ottox? Ottox attacks him.. Dies... Hapa attacks him... Dies... Something tells me this is more than just a bad feeling.... Get your votes off me you dummies. Vote Scum. Vote ShiaoPi.MAVERICK OUT!
And this:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 14 2012 10:18 Maverick32x wrote:Doop-de-doop, I'll look at Grav. Before I dig into filters, my gut feeling of Grav is that he has been on the side lines throughout the game and that he's a new player. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote:
This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me. Passive. Very passive and apologetic. This sounds like subtle fear of being 'found out' (scummy) Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway  ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. Wants to blend in. Still apologizing. Pretty bad first couple posts. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling. This was my perspective as well when I played the Portal Mafia, which is making me wonder if a lot of this is kind of 'new town' sort of stuff? My perspective was "Kill everyone that is not town" I didn't care if you were 3rd party, 4th party or mafia.... if you weren't green... you needed to die. So his thought that- "Well, he's 3rd party, so we're good to lynch him" makes a lot of sense to me. He connects Ottox and Toad loosely... but I think he digs in a bit with his reads considering his post history. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this:
Matt got caught
Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was
Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was
A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier
So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list
so is gravan
you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter
On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU.
Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him?
2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. I ALMOST like this post. He target BM which is cool. Very straight forward, non-apologetic. The only problem is, its only because he's being called out and feels threatened. So again with the fear response. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:39 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 10:26 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:18 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this:
Matt got caught
Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was
Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was
A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier
So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list
so is gravan
you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter
On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU.
Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him?
2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. This is the worst case I've ever seen. Typically, when one argues against another, a counter-argument has to be presented. Since it appears as though I am on some people's chopping blocks, some discussion could be useful. Just denouncing my case gets town no-where. You chose a poor person to analyze. Bm is like chezinu and incredibly hard to pin down normally. You typically have to rely on things like scumslips to catch either of them or take look at the overall effort they put into a game. Now given that. You're analysis is very lacking, and looks like cherry picking. You don't include examples or even a link to his filter to prove your case. It seems rushed and made by someone backed into a corner. If you are town you should have no reason to feel rushed, you have plenty of time to post your thoughts. First off, while I understand a player's meta is something to consider, I really have no idea what you are talking about with respect to how Bill plays or whoever this chezinu is. I included at least three examples. See those quotes/spoilers? All of them include quotes from Bill Murray. As to being rushed, well, I am just trying to not lurk. Apparently that is a bad thing to do - working on putting my thoughts out there and trying to stimulate discussion. I like this post actually. It speaks to me well. I also am not up to speed on the "meta" of other players... This indicates to me that he really IS a new player.. trying to find his way and get the swing of things. He wants to put his thoughts out and get something going, but seems unclear as to how to do it. Okay, as I'm going through the filters from this point to the end of his page 1- he all of a sudden starts to pick up a LOT more momentum. He is being more assertive with his claims and is getting more involved. Here are some posts. Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:02 Gravan wrote:On September 09 2012 00:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 09 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote:
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim... Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything. I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts. Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops. Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim. I have to be honest, Im just laying it out. In XIII Newbie, I was One-Shot and didn't claim and everyone said I should've. I don't want to make the same mistake. I know me getting GK back is useless, but I need town to know what you guys will be lynching. Medic should not claim definetly(if we have one and they acted), else we both die. I picked BC primarily for the reason that Matt was his first pick and he was using the lynch to look around for other scum. He was speaking with really solid logic and had a few scum reads already. DrH was under a bit of fire, so I wasn't sure if scum was going to let that sit and develop. I didn't think Toad was active enough to be killed that night, but he had by then moved to my town list due to his response to my case. Just to make it clear I think Shady and Mav are scum I would actually like to hear what you suspect happened on N1 - who did what, from your point of view. What was the scenario? Also, unless I am missing it, did you actually make any kind of case against Shady? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:50 Gravan wrote:
I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question.
Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides.
Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim? Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. It could be a mafia tactic to draw away from the discussion, or it could just be a little too much focus on outside/less relevant factors, but either way I encourage everyone to focus more on filters from this game and less on filters from other games. Also: On September 10 2012 02:56 strongandbig wrote:##vote: toad for mayorNo but actually, you bring up a very good point. I played in WoF and Forumite this game does remind me of his play from that game. That said, I think austin's case on z-boson is pretty good as well - he's hedging a lot, and his reasoning around the BKE vote really doesn't make much sense. So toad and austin, since both of you are pretty decent players and regardless of your own alignments are gonna be pretty good at mafia logic, what do you make of each others' cases? One last thing - I don't have all that much time so I was looking through some shorter filters. What do people think of hopeless1der? His filter can be described as - kind of a scummy waffle around the mattchew lynch - tunneling forumite Now, on the one hand I think forumite is a decent scum candidate; but seriously I don't think hopeless has talked about anything else for more than one or two lines. This is a contradiction for me from past games, where hopeless's filter has looked well-thought-out and where it's easy to get a town read on him. Also I feel like there might be a contradiction here: On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 05 2012 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion. A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night. I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared. On September 08 2012 16:06 Hopeless1der wrote:
Unless someone claims a vig shot on GK, you're supposed to be dead right now. That was worse than Mattchew's claim. insta-reaction was to throw water on bke's claim, even though he already knew a scum with a role could also deliver a factional kp. Now, I also didn't believe bke's claim, but it's not just that he didn't believe it - he discounted it with a reason that he already knew wasn't airtight. Not sure how bad of a contradiction that is but I think it is a contradiction. I do get the feeling (as I implied/made light of earlier) that Hopeless' claim was a little too absolute. I would like to hear a little more of Hopeless so that I can get a bit more of a read on him - especially since his favourite target (forumite) is in the spotlight/sights right now. Ok, this next post I think is REALLY important. Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 05:48 Gravan wrote:On September 12 2012 05:39 Forumite wrote:On September 12 2012 04:27 Hopeless1der wrote:If you're going to respond, could you not cherry pick?
Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson?
Why do you want me to die?
Make an effort to explain yourself.
I don´t know, stuff you´ve done. I´m not as sure on you as on Z-boson and BM though, and sometimes I get the feeling you are more likely town. I have 80 minutes left in the game, why do you want me to spend it on making a case on you? On September 12 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote:On September 12 2012 04:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Also, eagerly awaiting your case on mav: On September 11 2012 22:12 Mementoss wrote:
I am at work and don't have much time. Catching up is hard, from my reading so far I think Maverick is scum and will vote him I read the most recent case on forumite but I just don't see it. Hopefully I can finish filling in the gaps of reading tonight and actually post a worthy post of why maverick is scum. I'm hoping I can make deadline today busy day. When I posted this I was at page 40. I'm at page 59 now. So I still have half the game to catch up on. At this point it won't change whose going to get lynched, but I still have to find out who is scum so I can be helpful day4 Mementoss is SCUM SCUM SCUM! Noone cares about Mav, so stop wasting your vote and actually put it on someone that might get lynched tonight. There are only 3 candidates: Forumite
Z-Boson
Bill MurrayPut it on one of them, or I´ll scream at vigis to kill you tonight! On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote:
At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows?
Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. FML You explain how all three candidates are scummy, and then vote the one with the biggest wagon. You are SCUM! too. This kind of posts only strengthens the need to vote for you, in my mind. Down to the wire, all you are doing is pointing as many fingers as you can, as aggressively as you can (in big red letters, hehe), with the bare minimum amount of evidence or effort. It seems desperate instead of simply defensive. Why not try to clear your name and answer the accusations about yourself as best you can in an attempt to lift votes off you (no matter how futile, at this late hour)? Hopeless (the first person in the game to point a serious finger at you) has even given you this opportunity on a silver platter. Yet, all you continue to do is dodge and slip around, shouting at other people and being selective in your question answering and case-making. This is something that I think he was TRYING to do early game. However, he kind of violates his own rule when he decided to turn on BM in an attempt to 'clear his name'. In fact- his quoted posts above clearly indicate that he felt he needed a counter argument... which was to point fingers to clear his name????? Other than that, he has started to contribute a lot more which I can relate to. I hate posting early in the game. It sucks. Its confusing. There are too many people talking. You have people like BM saying things like "This person is scum" and everyone just listens to them for seemingly NO reason... Now though- he is posting significantly differently than he was at the start.... Why would a scum INCREASE his posting.. when there are plenty of lurkers for him to hide amongst? He is putting himself out there in more assertive ways... This speaks more to Gravan's personality as a person.. probably awkward in groups- has to get to know people more before opening up...probably only has a few close friends.. etc etc... (Also yes, I am a therapist ha) tldr: Gravan appears to be a new player(town)- or a mafia pretending to be new.. and doing an absolutely awesome job at it.
I'll add to SS too in my next post, but I got an additional town read on him too. Not 100% related to my vote so putting it in next post.
- I also did, at least at first glance, Mavs case on ShiaoPi looked good, gonna read through it, but as Shiao is so far to catching up on votes im not gonna vote him anyway.
- BM is still on my list of people to consider, but no votes on him = my vote goes to Gravan quite clearly.
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On September 15 2012 01:50 imallinson wrote:
I find it interesting that the two top candidates for a lynch haven't voted for each other. This doesn't really make sense from a town perspective. If you are town you know 100% you are town and the same cannot be said for the other person. Surely in that case it is better for town to lynch the person you are not 100% sure is town. The only reason you wouldn't want to vote for the other person close to being lynched is if you were both scum. It's very unlikely at this point that shady or shiao are going to get lynched yet mav and gravan have their votes on them.
it makes no sense no matter of alignment.
You usually don't want to be lynched no matter of alignment, as town because as you mentioned the other guy is at the max a 99% sure town, which still leaves a 1% chance to flip mafia while you're a 100% town.
As mafia you want to survive because, therefore you want the other guy to die, therefore you vote him.
If both are mafia you bus hardcore and make it look like it's only one of you two who is mafia while the other guy is town.
Yes it's not making sense at all. That's the point here.
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On September 15 2012 01:54 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 01:51 Gravan wrote:On September 15 2012 01:36 imallinson wrote:
@Gravan
Why do you keep insisting that the case against you is only based on day 1 and lurking when that isn't true. Also Shady isn't the only one to make a case against you. Then what is it? Really? What are the strong points out there? Well I'd like to know about this. + Show Spoiler +On September 13 2012 03:04 imallinson wrote:I was really suspicious of him night 1, he was one of my top scum reads due then. I kind of forgot about him after that because he started actually contributing a bit and the BKE case was much stronger. The way he dealt with the day 3 voting has made me suspicious of him again. Before the start of day 3 he says how much he dislikes the meta arguments + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:
There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. . The first thing we get day 3 is this + Show Spoiler +On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote:
At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows?
Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. which seems to be the opposite of what he said in the previous post. If you look at what BM, Z-Boson and Forumite actually posted this game BM is by far the most scummy looking. It's only if you look at the meta argument that this changes. Yet Gravan votes for Forumite anyway. I look at that and see someone who tried to look like they were contributing in the first post then trying to hide and sheep the popular vote in the second which seems awfully scummy. Why were you so against meta lynches before day 3 but happy to lynch forumite based on toad's meta argument?
On September 15 2012 01:54 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 01:51 Gravan wrote:On September 15 2012 01:36 imallinson wrote:
@Gravan
Why do you keep insisting that the case against you is only based on day 1 and lurking when that isn't true. Also Shady isn't the only one to make a case against you. Then what is it? Really? What are the strong points out there? Well I'd like to know about this. + Show Spoiler +On September 13 2012 03:04 imallinson wrote:I was really suspicious of him night 1, he was one of my top scum reads due then. I kind of forgot about him after that because he started actually contributing a bit and the BKE case was much stronger. The way he dealt with the day 3 voting has made me suspicious of him again. Before the start of day 3 he says how much he dislikes the meta arguments + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:
There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. . The first thing we get day 3 is this + Show Spoiler +On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote:
At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows?
Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. which seems to be the opposite of what he said in the previous post. If you look at what BM, Z-Boson and Forumite actually posted this game BM is by far the most scummy looking. It's only if you look at the meta argument that this changes. Yet Gravan votes for Forumite anyway. I look at that and see someone who tried to look like they were contributing in the first post then trying to hide and sheep the popular vote in the second which seems awfully scummy. Why were you so against meta lynches before day 3 but happy to lynch forumite based on toad's meta argument?
Well, I don't like meta lynches alone. They are great as a supporting arguments (a position I have stated before). What really sold me on Forumite, though, was the way he defended himself. I am all for pointing fingers (aka building cases) when you are on the chopping block - but he took it to an extreme I considered scummy.
He used giant red text, and apparently thought half the thread was scum. His reads changed as people shut down his old ones. I thought he was trying to waste as much time as possible before dying - I thought he was trying to go out with a bang.
What finally did it for me (combined with the meta argument) is when Hopeless asked:
On September 11 2012 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 23:16 Forumite wrote:
I dislike most of the case (Z-boson's case on BM), especially him calling BM out for lying, often a "lie" is the player simply forgetting something instead of scum-motivated. What I do agree with is that it´s very bad of BM to have been gone during the BKE lynch. My opinion of BM is that he doesn´t try to help. We want him to be a town leader and all he does is short posts, cryptic or irrelevant passages, FoS on me, taking back FoS on me, saying he actually always suspected me, back and forth.
The old cases on me during N1 were weak, and both BM and Toades said so, so I didn´t do much about them except resolving to get more active, and yet it´s those same reasons that are used to get me lynched today. =/ - You want BILL MURRAY to be the leader? The voice of reason, a beacon for us to rally around? Are you kidding me? - Where is this so called activity? Why is it that my posts are never responded to? Am I lurking to hard? For the last time: Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote:
And there goes D3.
Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add? Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 01:09 Hopeless1der wrote:
Forumite, could you perhaps flesh things out a bit more on Z-Boson, besides his interactions regarding Mattchew? Why is he a better lynch than you right now?
Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson?
Why do you want me to die?
Make an effort to explain yourself.For reference, a case on Forumite that is not based on Meta: + Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 02:43 Hopeless1der wrote:First, my original case on Forumite: + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:46 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 09:27 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase: On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. Dat Over-reaction: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote:
Cool ... you wanna talk about something else? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. I reacted strongly because there was no grounds for the vote / read. I still have a problem with the fact that he keeps emphasizing the uselessness of the post (it isn't, because as clearly seen that people can miss setup information), which I take as soft discrediting of my posts in general. I'm not claiming my opening post is super useful, but to call it useless is unwarranted. That said I can see this coming from a town perspective, so my problem with his play thus far is a matter of taste rather than alignment. On September 04 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? There is a difference in someone discrediting me and someone being deliberately disruptive. Forumite phrased the question in a way that seemingly put words in my mouth as I said the former but not the latter (or never intended to so I checked with my question). Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite+ Show Spoiler +Pregame answer for Rewok, I got curious when going through Forumite's filter: On September 03 2012 01:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote:
There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + Eristic My followup, continuing my journey through his filter: His entire reasoning for voting matt is to sheep BC: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 21:11 Forumite wrote:
Still catching up with the posts made while I was asleep.
For now:
##Vote: Mattchew
He´s a scummy liar and I´m 100% behind BC for calling him out. He didn't even read the entire thread through...He initially just tossed his vote in there because BC was so sure of himself, but that wasn't really the case. How do I know this? Because in his next post, he's defending his 'out of place' vote in the spoilered post below: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. Why do people fakevote, then say "lol, I never really voted!" It´s irritating. Making a vote in this thread might not count but I think it´s bad form. Similarly it´s bad to stealthvote in the other thread without confirming it here. If you want to pressurevote, do it for real. @BMShow nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. With Matt looking more and more scummy, do you still accuse me of fishing for his role? Your FoS seem to rely on Matt being a townie, which he´s probably not. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:48 Rewok wrote:
Been keeping up my reading. Here's how the situation seems to me:
We're voting Mattchew today. Pretty much no getting out of that. If he turns up scum, Ottox and a few others could be on the chopping block. If he's town, we've got a whole new set of reads.
But it seems to me that our whole strategy hinges on how Mattchew turns up after he's killed. Is there any way we can get another read / another kill set up for D1? One which doesn't hinge on Mattchew's alignment?
I'm asking because you guys are way more familiar with the way TL mafia runs. One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. More specifically, pulling from the spoilered post above: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:
Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. It didn't look strange. Feel free the check the timestamps, his vote came after Palmar confirmed the lie. Forumite says he got mod confirmation anyways, but to what avail? This is a defensive statement when there is nothing to defend against. This is scummy behavior. Why did he have to sheep BC if he had mod confirmation? More scummy behavior. Next, he's reading things between lines that I have a hard time seeing. Read BM's post and show me how you came out of that thinking "Well BM is accusing me of bluefishing": Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Forumite's response to BM: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:
I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. Next is him stifling active discussion and being wishy-washy: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:
One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. He's kind of hedging his bets on what Matt's flip is going to be. This is a step back from when Matt was a scummy liar in his previous post. So what if we can't lynch more than one target at a time? I disagree with the concept of shutting up at night, but I don't necessarily see that as scum motivated. What is scummy is that we can "worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later." This isn't shutting up at night, this is shutting up in general. Rewok phrased his question poorly as an "alternative D1 target", but the basic concept of CONTINUE TO SCUMHUNT is completely valid to me.
In the next post: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 21:19 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched.
What can we conclude if he flips scum or town?
In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch?
My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum.
If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched.
Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game.
@Shiaopi
Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Basically that, if Matt flips town, then BC could be anything, but if Matt flips scum then BC is most likely town, and everyone who defended Matt until Palmars confirmation looks kind of bad. People who defend Matt after Palmars confirmation look bad for creating a disruption over something that is allready decided, that Matt lied and needs to die, but I think most scum jumped on the bandwagon long ago. If Matt is an Assassin then we get rid of both the 3rd Party in return for 2 townies dead. Not a good trade, but I think it´s unlikely that Matt is an assassin. There´s no point in not defending yourself to the end as a 3rd Party, while scum often shut up to avoid giving away any of their buddies. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote:
No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying? , He basically says that if Matt flips red (which he has) then everyone looks kind of bad sometimes because of disruption and bussing something something waffle. Don't count on finding scum using Matt's flip is the message I got from that. This, in addition to his "find scum later" response to rewok reads very scummy to me. He also pushes his luck with BM regarding the bluefishing, which I don't think actually happened and Forumite is twisting the situation to make BM look bad. For the most part, he's shut up other than to call Mav scum and neglect to address the ottoxlol issue. This is null since he said he'd wanted to shut up at night, but with everything else, I'm reading heavily into Forumite being scum.
And forumite didn't really give a satisfactory response. It reinforced my idea that he was trying to muck up the thread on his way out.
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On September 14 2012 20:13 Shady Sands wrote:
These are my top lynch candidates at the moment:
Gravan
Maverick
I also have a strong townread on SnB, and my previous townread on sloosh is slipping into null territory after his weak list above.
How do you have a townread on SnB let alone a STRONG townread, wtf, this guy hasn't done shit all game.
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30 more minutes until I've got to leave. Shady Sands or Gravan?
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On September 15 2012 01:59 Kreb wrote:Ok, first my vote so thats clear to the rest of you: #Vote GravanBecause - I already mentioned him in my previous post - His defense was, imo, lacking - The main voting targets are Mav and SS, which I already explained I dont wanna vote on. I'll also add to Mav that his defense was much better than Gravans (mainly this post) + Show Spoiler +On September 14 2012 09:00 Maverick32x wrote:Read through the case on me- There is a LOT of tunneling going on.... Also why are people STILL bringing up Matt?? My 'soft defense' occurred prior to any confirmation that he was lying... once that was confirmed.. I switched. Simple enough. As for my "blaming the lurkers is an easy strategy"- There is something unique about those top 3 that I find is different than just 'lurking'.... there is something about the frequency of posts and the disappearance of them.... I know thats not the concrete answer you guys want, so I'll try to get some 'science' to back that feeling up. Voting me is a mistake. I am a plain boring vanilla town. I just really can't understand how ShiaoPi is not scum to more people? Okay, his 'timezone' presents as an issue to discussion.... and I'll even move past the lurking to be more specific in his posts. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:17 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? no...that kind of defeats the purpose Lets bring it ALL the way back... He is backing up Matt's encouragement for others to claim. How is this LESS scummy than me soft defending someone who I didn't know I was lying? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 15:17 ShiaoPi wrote:
No disrespect meant to you rewok, but what the fuck is a list full of null-reads supposed to do? It is on the first hand piling up the the thread like crazy and secondly it gives us 0 information...you are simply rehashing what happened in the thread so far.
That entire post can be summarized into: "I have no clue about you guys, mind helping to lynch scum?"
Seriously.....dafuq Right, Rewok's decision to do this sucks. Doesn't seem like Rewok and him are connected based off that post. I highlight this post mainly due to the relationship that is seen here. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:39 ShiaoPi wrote:
can you just shut up ottox, it gets annoying to see you harping around the same obvious nonsense all thread long.... Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:55 ShiaoPi wrote:@Ottox: thanks, have a good night and just cut it >_> @Hapa: Besides the ones that have been called out already (e.g. Ottox, goodkarma, Milton, all leaning scum for me, maybe with the exception of Ottox...) I do not really have some at the moment. Austin is way more inactive from the town-austin I know but that's a kind of weak meta argument right now. Also I am still waiting on Gravan On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:
The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. Both of these posts were made prior to Ottox's (town) death. ALSO, His statement of Ottox (town), Goodkarama(scum) and Milton (personally I think town) are leaning scum... but he 'excuses' Ottox.... LIKELY because he knows that Ottox is on the chopping block. Also, as pointed out previously, it is typical for scum to post a list, and sprinkle in scum buddies. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 16:53 ShiaoPi wrote:On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Shiaopi
Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Internet is unstable as of now, dunno if it will get better. If you are concerned about my meta you should probably read TL Mafia LV instead, since dwarf fortress was a mini, but anyway. Gravan has gone to sleep apparently without doing his promised post, which is something I really don't like... Comments made about his lack of meta- these are covered up by "Internet problems" However, observations made about his meta. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 11:23 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP:
I just woke up and read through.
Matt flipped red as everyone (bar Ottox) expected, so I'll be talking about him first.
To be honest I thought for a while that Ottoxlol is just bad townie, but having caught up with the thread, naaah he is like 99%
red. Hopefully a vig shoots him tonight, so he's gone.
Also Gravan has finally done some contribution beyond Mattchew stuff, but I am not impressed at all. It feels like it was a
case for sake of writing a case on somebody to get off some pressure which has started on you. He should either be a town
kill at night or lynched tomorrow if it stays this way with all the points in thread already.
Ending the post with some comments on the cases we got this night so far. DYH brought up Hopeless1der as a candidate. Reading Hopeless' filter there is some merit to DYH's accusation, but I am not entirely sold on him being scum.
Hapa also brought out quite a switch from DrH/Blackmamba in opinion so I am interested in hearing his answer to it as well.
Looked a lot like his town play though so maybe he got some good explanation for it.
Also shouldn't lvdr be modkilled by now? no posts at all.
Him and lvdr are likely not connected- again, just another relationship point. Also, Hapa becomes his new target at this point. Similar to Ottox, he starts to pick up speed on targeting him. -He goes into a string of 1 liners at this point- likely due to my confrontation with him.- But then Hapa makes a decent post attacking him. On September 09 2012 12:44 Hapahauli wrote:
1) ShiaoPi has a reasonably active town-meta. ShiaoPi has no scum meta.
2) ShiaoPi is hardcore lurking this game, "internet issues" cited, but were not mentioned pre-game (odd, considering severity). His activity is very different from his 6 town games.
He certainly hasn't posted anything that makes me think he's town. Some other newer players have posts that show effort, but ShiaoPi has shown none. As far as I'm concerned, the above makes him scummy. If he'd like to defend himself and convince me otherwise, he should take the opportunity to do so.
Should I hold your hand too, or will that suffice?I don't want to post the WHOLE quote from Shiao- you can look it up, but again with an excuse of internet problems and a post pretty much just defending himself from Hapa who attacks him pretty hard.... Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 19:27 ShiaoPi wrote:
I would see Hapa as town. His reasoning was solid for most parts and I can understand his frustration with the game since he led a mislynch. Also his "selectiveness" reads to me as focusing on one read at a time which does not sound too bad with me. Got to go now though Similar with Ottox- ShiaoPi decides to absolve Hapa and declare him TOWN. oh ya... Hapa dies that night..... .... .... ..... Seems similar to the Ottox? Ottox attacks him.. Dies... Hapa attacks him... Dies... Something tells me this is more than just a bad feeling.... Get your votes off me you dummies. Vote Scum. Vote ShiaoPi.MAVERICK OUT! And this: + Show Spoiler +On September 14 2012 10:18 Maverick32x wrote:Doop-de-doop, I'll look at Grav. Before I dig into filters, my gut feeling of Grav is that he has been on the side lines throughout the game and that he's a new player. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote:
This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me. Passive. Very passive and apologetic. This sounds like subtle fear of being 'found out' (scummy) Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. Wants to blend in. Still apologizing. Pretty bad first couple posts. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling. This was my perspective as well when I played the Portal Mafia, which is making me wonder if a lot of this is kind of 'new town' sort of stuff? My perspective was "Kill everyone that is not town" I didn't care if you were 3rd party, 4th party or mafia.... if you weren't green... you needed to die. So his thought that- "Well, he's 3rd party, so we're good to lynch him" makes a lot of sense to me. He connects Ottox and Toad loosely... but I think he digs in a bit with his reads considering his post history. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this:
Matt got caught
Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was
Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was
A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier
So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list
so is gravan
you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter
On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU.
Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him?
2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. I ALMOST like this post. He target BM which is cool. Very straight forward, non-apologetic. The only problem is, its only because he's being called out and feels threatened. So again with the fear response. Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:39 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 10:26 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:18 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this:
Matt got caught
Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was
Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was
A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier
So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list
so is gravan
you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter
On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote:
Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU.
Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him?
2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. This is the worst case I've ever seen. Typically, when one argues against another, a counter-argument has to be presented. Since it appears as though I am on some people's chopping blocks, some discussion could be useful. Just denouncing my case gets town no-where. You chose a poor person to analyze. Bm is like chezinu and incredibly hard to pin down normally. You typically have to rely on things like scumslips to catch either of them or take look at the overall effort they put into a game. Now given that. You're analysis is very lacking, and looks like cherry picking. You don't include examples or even a link to his filter to prove your case. It seems rushed and made by someone backed into a corner. If you are town you should have no reason to feel rushed, you have plenty of time to post your thoughts. First off, while I understand a player's meta is something to consider, I really have no idea what you are talking about with respect to how Bill plays or whoever this chezinu is. I included at least three examples. See those quotes/spoilers? All of them include quotes from Bill Murray. As to being rushed, well, I am just trying to not lurk. Apparently that is a bad thing to do - working on putting my thoughts out there and trying to stimulate discussion. I like this post actually. It speaks to me well. I also am not up to speed on the "meta" of other players... This indicates to me that he really IS a new player.. trying to find his way and get the swing of things. He wants to put his thoughts out and get something going, but seems unclear as to how to do it. Okay, as I'm going through the filters from this point to the end of his page 1- he all of a sudden starts to pick up a LOT more momentum. He is being more assertive with his claims and is getting more involved. Here are some posts. Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:02 Gravan wrote:On September 09 2012 00:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 09 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote:
Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim... Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything. I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts. Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops. Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim. I have to be honest, Im just laying it out. In XIII Newbie, I was One-Shot and didn't claim and everyone said I should've. I don't want to make the same mistake. I know me getting GK back is useless, but I need town to know what you guys will be lynching. Medic should not claim definetly(if we have one and they acted), else we both die. I picked BC primarily for the reason that Matt was his first pick and he was using the lynch to look around for other scum. He was speaking with really solid logic and had a few scum reads already. DrH was under a bit of fire, so I wasn't sure if scum was going to let that sit and develop. I didn't think Toad was active enough to be killed that night, but he had by then moved to my town list due to his response to my case. Just to make it clear I think Shady and Mav are scum I would actually like to hear what you suspect happened on N1 - who did what, from your point of view. What was the scenario? Also, unless I am missing it, did you actually make any kind of case against Shady? Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 01:50 Gravan wrote:
I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question.
Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides.
Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim? Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. It could be a mafia tactic to draw away from the discussion, or it could just be a little too much focus on outside/less relevant factors, but either way I encourage everyone to focus more on filters from this game and less on filters from other games. Also: On September 10 2012 02:56 strongandbig wrote:##vote: toad for mayorNo but actually, you bring up a very good point. I played in WoF and Forumite this game does remind me of his play from that game. That said, I think austin's case on z-boson is pretty good as well - he's hedging a lot, and his reasoning around the BKE vote really doesn't make much sense. So toad and austin, since both of you are pretty decent players and regardless of your own alignments are gonna be pretty good at mafia logic, what do you make of each others' cases? One last thing - I don't have all that much time so I was looking through some shorter filters. What do people think of hopeless1der? His filter can be described as - kind of a scummy waffle around the mattchew lynch - tunneling forumite Now, on the one hand I think forumite is a decent scum candidate; but seriously I don't think hopeless has talked about anything else for more than one or two lines. This is a contradiction for me from past games, where hopeless's filter has looked well-thought-out and where it's easy to get a town read on him. Also I feel like there might be a contradiction here: On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 05 2012 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion. A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night. I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared. On September 08 2012 16:06 Hopeless1der wrote:
Unless someone claims a vig shot on GK, you're supposed to be dead right now. That was worse than Mattchew's claim. insta-reaction was to throw water on bke's claim, even though he already knew a scum with a role could also deliver a factional kp. Now, I also didn't believe bke's claim, but it's not just that he didn't believe it - he discounted it with a reason that he already knew wasn't airtight. Not sure how bad of a contradiction that is but I think it is a contradiction. I do get the feeling (as I implied/made light of earlier) that Hopeless' claim was a little too absolute. I would like to hear a little more of Hopeless so that I can get a bit more of a read on him - especially since his favourite target (forumite) is in the spotlight/sights right now. Ok, this next post I think is REALLY important. Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 05:48 Gravan wrote:On September 12 2012 05:39 Forumite wrote:On September 12 2012 04:27 Hopeless1der wrote:If you're going to respond, could you not cherry pick?
Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson?
Why do you want me to die?
Make an effort to explain yourself.
I don´t know, stuff you´ve done. I´m not as sure on you as on Z-boson and BM though, and sometimes I get the feeling you are more likely town. I have 80 minutes left in the game, why do you want me to spend it on making a case on you? On September 12 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote:On September 12 2012 04:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Also, eagerly awaiting your case on mav: On September 11 2012 22:12 Mementoss wrote:
I am at work and don't have much time. Catching up is hard, from my reading so far I think Maverick is scum and will vote him I read the most recent case on forumite but I just don't see it. Hopefully I can finish filling in the gaps of reading tonight and actually post a worthy post of why maverick is scum. I'm hoping I can make deadline today busy day. When I posted this I was at page 40. I'm at page 59 now. So I still have half the game to catch up on. At this point it won't change whose going to get lynched, but I still have to find out who is scum so I can be helpful day4 Mementoss is SCUM SCUM SCUM! Noone cares about Mav, so stop wasting your vote and actually put it on someone that might get lynched tonight. There are only 3 candidates: Forumite
Z-Boson
Bill MurrayPut it on one of them, or I´ll scream at vigis to kill you tonight! On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote:
At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows?
Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote:
To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. FML You explain how all three candidates are scummy, and then vote the one with the biggest wagon. You are SCUM! too. This kind of posts only strengthens the need to vote for you, in my mind. Down to the wire, all you are doing is pointing as many fingers as you can, as aggressively as you can (in big red letters, hehe), with the bare minimum amount of evidence or effort. It seems desperate instead of simply defensive. Why not try to clear your name and answer the accusations about yourself as best you can in an attempt to lift votes off you (no matter how futile, at this late hour)? Hopeless (the first person in the game to point a serious finger at you) has even given you this opportunity on a silver platter. Yet, all you continue to do is dodge and slip around, shouting at other people and being selective in your question answering and case-making. This is something that I think he was TRYING to do early game. However, he kind of violates his own rule when he decided to turn on BM in an attempt to 'clear his name'. In fact- his quoted posts above clearly indicate that he felt he needed a counter argument... which was to point fingers to clear his name????? Other than that, he has started to contribute a lot more which I can relate to. I hate posting early in the game. It sucks. Its confusing. There are too many people talking. You have people like BM saying things like "This person is scum" and everyone just listens to them for seemingly NO reason... Now though- he is posting significantly differently than he was at the start.... Why would a scum INCREASE his posting.. when there are plenty of lurkers for him to hide amongst? He is putting himself out there in more assertive ways... This speaks more to Gravan's personality as a person.. probably awkward in groups- has to get to know people more before opening up...probably only has a few close friends.. etc etc... (Also yes, I am a therapist ha) tldr: Gravan appears to be a new player(town)- or a mafia pretending to be new.. and doing an absolutely awesome job at it. I'll add to SS too in my next post, but I got an additional town read on him too. Not 100% related to my vote so putting it in next post. - I also did, at least at first glance, Mavs case on ShiaoPi looked good, gonna read through it, but as Shiao is so far to catching up on votes im not gonna vote him anyway. - BM is still on my list of people to consider, but no votes on him = my vote goes to Gravan quite clearly.
How was Mav's defense good? He basically said why are people bringing up my scummy post from day 1. If you say something SO scummy on day 1, it doesn't magically get unscummy by day 4. He's trying to discredit things he did in the past as non relevant. Also, the way that slo0sh immediately mentioned how Mav's statement on Grav made Mav look town is really discomforting. It looks like slo0sh told him to write that about Grav looking townie, and then for him to tell the rest of the town that it makes Mav look town. Hm. I still like the Maverick lynch personally.
I don't think the BM stuff on shady really shows anything.
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