Newbie Mini Mafia XXI

On July 16 2012 09:06 calgar wrote:
I have to disagree with you here. We saw firsthand how hapa crushed hopeless last game with a thorough meta-analysis. This means it is at least worth something. Having said that, I think it will be less useful this game since those who saw what happened will be more careful to avoid similar mistakes. And some players (like me) have no history to analyze.

On July 16 2012 09:06 calgar wrote:
---SNIP---
And some players (like me) have no history to analyze.

On July 16 2012 09:40 tube wrote:
whats the point of fos btw doesnt that just make the fos'ed person more careful in their posts if they actually are mafia

i mean i would rather just gather more evidence then outright accuse them

On July 16 2012 10:26 tube wrote:
in a game this small where everyone said "i will be active" i dont think lurking is a good idea for anyone, esp mafia

On July 16 2012 23:25 tube wrote:

idk what igmeoy means but i just didnt do any analysis

On July 17 2012 04:30 tube wrote:

what lol
maybe i just dont see anything to analyze in day 1 with no information

On July 17 2012 05:04 tube wrote:
half of the people in the game have already been accused and i literally dont agree with any of the arguments that were made yet because they're all too speculative
yeah those are my thoughts i guess im mafia

On July 17 2012 05:22 tube wrote:
i didnt martyr myself i thought making a sarcastic statement like that would make people realize how pointless it is to lynch me

On July 17 2012 05:39 tube wrote:
the points against me are that im being an active lurker and thats supposedly our best lynch
how am i supposed to respond to that other than "i just felt like posting" because i didnt want to be inactive

from my point of view im not attracting suspicion to begin with

On July 17 2012 05:45 JingleHell wrote:


And if you flip town, I'll consider them as plausible targets. If you flip scum, I'll consider them confirmed townie. Deal?

On July 17 2012 05:51 JingleHell wrote:


I was actually fishing for a reaction more substantial than his current posting, thanks for interfering.

And you're one to talk, remember XX N1 where you were like 72 hours away from deadline planning to lynch me until DT confirmed me on D2?

On July 17 2012 06:09 JingleHell wrote:
No, it's not a scum slip. It's what I said earlier, if we don't have anybody who really screams "scum" at us, we can just lynch the person who might just be actively bad town. The "noob game" excuse doesn't fly with me, we're all newbs, thus being in the game.

This game is plurality lynch. Most votes at the end of the day dies. So yes, someone who's actively not contributing can be a severe detriment. Ask Hapa about the town win in XX. Where the guy I would have lynched for being such a PITA was trying to coerce people into not voting for the guy we ended up lynching. Who flipped red and won us the game.

Actively bad town are scum's best friend. And if they make it to MYLO or LYLO, they can cause a town loss, because they look scummy.

In XVIII I won as scum because of an actively bad town player who I was able to lead a mislynch on and walk away from it because he was so scummy sounding. Scum had all 3 alive at endgame.

On July 17 2012 06:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
Lynching a bad townie in absence of scum to choose from is the best play town can make (unless its MYLO) imo.
Are we allowed to Vote: No Lynch?

There's some theoretical crap about even numbers of town-vs-scum being better for a potential mislynch or something to that effect. I might have it backwards in some way, but anyways, mislynching still gives information and the entire process leading up to getting tube (mis)lynched will give us information as well. If along the way someone makes a scumslip well guess what, I'll probably be voting for the scummy player. We need to do something to force reads from people who refuse to contribute. Almost getting them lynched should work as reasonable motivation I'd hope.

On July 16 2012 14:07 YourHarry wrote:
##Vote Obvious.660

Obvious scum

BTW, "wait and see" does not mean that we should actively stop what we are discussing to see what happens. It could mean, carry on with discussions and finger pointing and see where our scum hunting leads us.

On July 17 2012 11:31 YourHarry wrote:
Obvious.660 is obviously mafia. Kill with fire.

On July 17 2012 11:36 YourHarry wrote:
KILL OBVIOUS.660!!!

Despite what I said about needing to start voting, I don't know who to vote. I will reconsider tomorrow morning

##Unvote

On July 17 2012 14:59 YourHarry wrote:
With 17 hours left, we should start making votes - just to allow us to see the direction of the lynch.

On July 17 2012 14:56 YourHarry wrote:
Based on meta alone, I find Hapha suspicious. He hasn't yet to post his signature lengthy analysis on players he find suspicious.

Of course, the easy answer is that he hasn't found anyone suspicious.

On July 18 2012 00:02 JingleHell wrote:


And Hapahauli kicks off his usual behavior of trying to railroad the town, based on his oh so exemplary record of finding one whole scum in Newbie XX, and conveniently ignoring all the bad cases he personally had going there while knocking any cases he disliked from it.

/yawn

I'll just stick with ignoring you, thanks.

On July 18 2012 00:18 JingleHell wrote:


Are you blind, or just ignoring everything you disagree with again? I already provided my reasoning for voting on Obvious, and you dismissed it completely, based purely on WIFOM and assumptions. You're a brick wall in an argument, so I'm not going to bother. Would you like me to link some posts (which you ignored completely) explaining why you're at the very least not worth the bother of arguing against, and in some ways, have the potential to be bad for town?

Would you like me remind you of the BassInSpace case you were busily trying to tear to shreds? You know, the guy we lynched in part because of my ego, who was the LAST SCUM?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066&currentpage=51#1001
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066&currentpage=51#1007

On July 18 2012 00:44 YourHarry wrote:
Haph. Regards to meta. While I believe that meta is very useful in determining town/scum alignments, I do not think it's useful to simply compare the length of the posts. Scum Harry does know that people like you, jingle, and hopeless would keep his eyes on my posts to compare meta from our previous game. I would be motivated to emulate the types of posts I made in Newbie XX, to mislead you guys that I am, yet again, town. And it would be easy to do - especially, if the length of the posts is the one thing I need to emulate. Look for my motivation of the posts - which I admit is lacking - because I am not sure who is suspicious. But in my defense, I did read every post in this thread.

As for your accusation for wishy-washy comments and voting Obvious.660 without reason... do you really think this goes against my meta? I think I have also done quick voting in XX without much reason. It is true that in this game I practically provided 0 reason, LOL, but hopefully that should not make me more scummy. Also, sometimes I would like the person I am accusing to make a guess at why I am accusing him.

You also accused me of trying to "spread suspicion" rather the give reads. I haven't given much read, except to point out that you Hapha were suspicious for not making one of your signature analysis. In my original post, I too cited the length of the posts in analyzing your meta, so yes that would be a contradiction to what I am writing in this post.

In regards to Obvious.660, I don't know why people find that suspicious. He was simply giving out his reads on all of the players. Non-noncommittal, you say? Just because he didn't vote? As a town, you often do feel unsure about town/scum alignments of players. Just because I express that I am not sure player X is town or scum, should not make me scummy. It's true.

On July 18 2012 00:50 JingleHell wrote:
Considering he's accusing me of tunneling too much, and you of spreading too much suspicion, I'd just assume it's yet another case of Hapa being Hapa.

On July 18 2012 01:37 JingleHell wrote:


I'll cut it out the second you stop thinking that cardboard crown you got from Burger King proves you're king shit. Did you actually read the posts I referred you to, and try being open minded about them, or were you too busy trying to decide how best to subjugate others to your ego?

On July 18 2012 03:51 JingleHell wrote:


And if the two of us are agreeing on it, you'd think it would be obvious as all hell to anyone else, right?

On July 18 2012 04:36 Evulrabbitz wrote:
I will throw my vote on Obvious.660 based on his eagerness to vote for Tube for something that didn't even occur.

##Vote Obvious.660

On July 18 2012 05:25 calgar wrote:
@hapa Will you consider swinging your vote to iamperfection? We can potentially bag him over obvious.660 if we can convince people. I think the argument against iamperfection is stronger than YourHarry now. He made some points and if his posting shapes up and continues like it has then we'll know more. At least we've 'aired the dirty laundry' on him, so to speak.

On July 18 2012 05:25 calgar wrote:
@hapa Will you consider swinging your vote to iamperfection? We can potentially bag him over obvious.660 if we can convince people. I think the argument against iamperfection is stronger than YourHarry now. He made some points and if his posting shapes up and continues like it has then we'll know more. At least we've 'aired the dirty laundry' on him, so to speak.

On July 18 2012 08:37 JingleHell wrote:


I wouldn't count someone claiming vet as confirmed townie unless they actually survived an attack. That's like claiming VT, with the exception that if they're telling the truth, it means scum won't waste an NK on them, and the only ways to confirm it are to have a Vigi shoot them or have a DT investigate them.

I can't say GG, myself, when, even if we assume that 100% of the scum voted for him, which we have no way of knowing for sure, he still seemed scummy to enough townies to be in serious danger without scum voting on him.

On July 18 2012 08:45 YourHarry wrote:
Of course he should have claimed. Though claiming may or may not have saved him, since this is semi-open set up. I am probably going to guess that he would have lived.

On the positive side. I AM POSITIVE THAT FULLA IS TOWN.

On July 18 2012 07:10 Fulla wrote:
Where the hell is obvious? Sigh.. It seems it's all down to me, I hate it when this happens.

Let obvious be lynched or vote tube and force a no lynch.



Good point, I overlooked that.

Let's see what he flips then.

## Vote Obvious.660

On July 18 2012 08:55 YourHarry wrote:


This vote was made 50 minutes before the deadline. At this time, Obvious.660 had 6 votes vs. iamperfection's 3 votes. Fulla could have voted on someone else or not voted and the Obvious.660 lynch was VERY IMMINENT. There is no way scum Fulla would have risked looking suspicious knowing that he will be a part of a mislynch that was going to happen ANYWAY.

On July 18 2012 09:09 YourHarry wrote:


Lurking is not excusable behavior for TOWN AND SCUM. And in the absence of strong scum/town read, it may be OK to start a bandwagon against a lurking player. But when a player is obviously townie (and in my opinion, Fulla is obv townie), deciding to lynch a lurking townie may not be the best play for town. Hopefully he would start posting more.

On July 18 2012 11:02 JingleHell wrote:
Hapa, (yes, I'm about to ask your opinion, maybe the two of us will do better working together, since we operate from different angles), how do you feel about this notion, pure hypothetical: Scum tube, finally gets people off his case, sees Jingle as "aggressive townie", jumps on Obvious to try and ride the bandwagon.

My primary reason for thinking this is plausible, tube was too happy to jump behind me, but once the heat on him dies down, and people start remembering "he made an effort", his posting starts regressing mostly.

Thoughts?

On July 18 2012 11:08 calgar wrote:
@vigilante – I believe our next lynch has a high likelihood of being iamperfection. A number of people currently consider him the best choice now. It doesn’t look like he is bothered to respond to accusations or post much in general. I strongly advise to (carefully) consider a hit on him to save us a day, imo. Then on to the bigger fish.

On July 18 2012 12:13 tube wrote:
You just stated all the consequences of vigi shooting a townie, which are inherent and already known to everyone.
However, the much more likely scenario is that he actually is mafia and should therefore be taken out as early as possible.

If you disagree with all of Mufaa's, Hapa's, and calgar's cases against him, then you should explain where the reasonable doubt comes from, because "it's too easy" doesn't really convince anyone.

On July 18 2012 07:31 Probulous wrote:


Obvious.660 (6): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz, YourHarry, Fulla

Tube (2): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s,

YourHarry (0): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgar

Fulla (1): Hopeless1der

iamperfection (3): calgar, Mufaa, Hapahauli, calgar

JingleHell (0): YourHarry

Obvious.660 set to be lynched

On July 18 2012 02:56 YourHarry wrote:


If you think this, then uh-oh, you would be even more suspicious of me.

I forgot to mention that when 3 people suddenly stacked on Obvious.660, I had my vote on him also, which made 4 votes. 3 sudden votes in the course of one hour, when Obvious.660 made it clear that he won't be able to comeback to defend himself, makes the voters scummy. And I - of course being town- can't help but suspect that scums are pushing Obvious.660 mislynch and then blame me (the first person to accuse Obvious.660 with little reason) for the mislynch.

And I am not exactly accusing Jingle for not being logical. I find it suspicious that Jingle is quickly dismissing your defense of Obvious.660 though.

So if I am right and some of the scums are quickly targeting Obvious.660, their motivation could be two fold. Obviously to mislynch Obvious.660. And to distract the town from suspecting one of the scums. Who was being accused at the time? Tube.

FOS Tube and Jingle.

I am OK with either lynch. Maybe we should go with Tube since Jingle has history with some of the players here, which would hopefully make it easier for townies to read if he is mafia indeed.

##Unvote
##Vote tube

On July 18 2012 22:50 iamperfection wrote:
There have been posts that havemade me greatly question the motivation of some of the players.


What is your goal jingle? Do you want to win or do you want to be just justfied in your reasoning for when you get lynches. What purpose does this comment make? Well if perfection flips town he deserved it so dont look at me it was his fault not mine. Our goal is to win not to look good in our reasoning. It dosent matter if your reasoning is solid it has to be right.

On July 19 2012 04:32 iamperfection wrote:

So you want me to throw out fingers of suspicon that really would serve no purpose other than to be used against me later. What purpose would fos serve the game will change in a few hours and as town the very little information we get come from the result of the night actions. Why be pigenholed now during the night. Its the same reason calgar is upset that jinglehell is trying to make a final be all decesion on who vig should kill.

Also you didnt answer the question. my position on obvious was by far the worse i can do nothing to change on what i posted on day 1. Why wouldnt i just make a throwaway vote and semi bandwagon later on sombody else with less votes if i was a lurking mafia?

1. @jingle and @hapa – jesus christ guys chill out already. Your back and forth is unproductive, distracting, spammy, and most importantly, anti-town. That is reason enough to stop, immediately. Deal with your issues outside of the thread.

On July 19 2012 15:51 Hopeless1der wrote:Vigi hit: The mafia motive is to very weakly bus iamperfection, assuming they are both scum, while casting suspicion on Jingle and hoping to turn to you later to support him. The bus is the primary motive here to me.

Trying to Lynch Iamperfection: It WAS NOT completely hopeless at that point. The vote count never changed until after he'd made his statement that he was having a hard time defending Obvious.660 and gave up trying.
- You switched vote to iamperfection --> Obvious 5, iamperfection 2
- Calgar joins your vote --> Obvious 5, iamperfection 3
- Calgar half asses his defense of Obvious and fails to push for iamperfection in any meaningful manner (I know he has a lack of posts to analyze and make a case with, but there was essentially nothing done other than rehash the fact that he looks scummy without adding anything new)
- Fulla drops what could have been considered the hammer vote (plurality so not exactly, but whatever) At THIS point it is inevitable. Calgar had just about conceded his position two posts PRIOR to Fulla's vote.

Implying suspicion: There isn't a good reason for him to call Jingle town AND imply that he is being scummy. Calgar has seemingly done both, in that order. Though he maintains that Jingle is a town read, his 'elephant on piano keys' post details how Jingle's actions are scummier than calgar's, BUT Jingle is still a town read. This does not make sense to me and I considered that post to be riddled with scummy behavior.

On July 19 2012 21:53 JingleHell wrote:


1: The post was already linked. He directly implied only a scummy motive would want more evidence with perfection rather than wanting a vigi hit. You bring up WIFOM, but let's face it. At that point in time, if I was on the scum team, I'd be thinking the best possible use for Perfection would be dying to get me town credit.

2:Scum need at least one visible townie to keep around as a smokescreen for their own active players until later in the game. If they've been known to be unlucky like me, so much the better. Scum can't push an agenda if the entire thread is quiet.

3: Calgar, despite being so much more logical than me (according to himself) has yet to respond to my points with anything other than attempts to pick fights.

4: You've asked why scum Calgar would have posted telling us to stop fighting. That's ridiculous. Visible scum aiming for town leadership should do exactly that.

5: My case may seem like it's made up of tiny little things... wasn't it Calgar who, at the beginning, gave the scum a huge amount of credit saying not to look for big obvious things?

On July 20 2012 00:11 JingleHell wrote:


Haven't I already commented on the pile of WIFOM you're trying to feed me?

Shooting me would have removed the panic button of pointing fingers at me for mislynches. I already explained that twice, so if you're not going to respond to the explanation, I've got nothing further to say on this.

And your thirdly I've also answered.

Please don't respond by asking questions I answered already with no substance, all WIFOM.

On July 20 2012 00:19 JingleHell wrote:
I'm saying that if I'm alive, I'm a diversion. If I'm dead, I'm the guy who was in Calgar's face about wanting a vigi on Perfection.

If that doesn't make sense, I've given you far too much credit. In fact, I hope people won't believe you suddenly not being able to think. More than anyone else here, I can't stand your personality, but I still know you're sharp enough to understand what I'm saying, and feigning ignorance is so grossly out of character for you as a defense, that I hope others see it too.

On July 20 2012 01:24 iamperfection wrote:
--SNIP--
I think the mafia has been caught off guard by jingles claim and have resorted to logical fallicies in order to defend each other between hapa and calgar. I havent seen any suggestion by hapa and calgar in the last few pages of who we should be actively going for instead or if they have any new reads to go on they simply have resorted to attacking jingles defense. If calgar thinks im scum has he simply forgot that he should be scum hunting. If im this blatant scum read why hasent he tried to push with some more evidence. Im not buying his defense.
## vote calgar

On July 20 2012 10:47 JingleHell wrote:
Hey, Hapa. Credit where due, I also kept the situation tenable for communication to cool things down instead of going ballistic. Stroke my ego here a little

On July 20 2012 01:05 YourHarry wrote:
OH WOW. I THINK WE HAVE TO KILL JINGLE HELL........

JINGLE WHY DID YOU DRAW MAFIA..........

I WILL BE BACK LATER TO CLARIFY MY THOUGHTS

On July 20 2012 12:56 YourHarry wrote:
To summarize:

Jingle should have thought that vanillas also receive "roleblocked" notification (based on game XX).

Therefore should NOT have thought that I was role hunting.

Moreover, he continued to think I was role hunting even after our mod clarified that there was a confusion about "roleblocked" notification.

I am going to the gym. Will be back in an hour or so.

On July 20 2012 13:02 YourHarry wrote:
Before I leave, really quickly:

Evidence why Jingle is Jail Keeper

1. No one has counter claimed.
      But this is semi-open, so there may not be Jail Keeper to counter claim
2. There is no reason why Jingle should have left the breadcrumb and claim JailKeeper if he were a scum. It would be very risky and almost had to depend on absence of Jail keeper.

Small caveat. Jingle's initial breadcrumb did not actually say he is a jail keeper, it said JAILER CALGAR.

Course of action

If he is a Jail Keeper, he should be NK'ed soon enough anyway.

When I come back, I am going to outline my case against calgar, who I think should be a lynch today.

On July 21 2012 01:18 iamperfection wrote:
i might regret this but

The one thing i dont like about it is that he tries to cast suspicion on you. In my view looking at it you are basically mod confirmed townie in my view now. The only other possibilty is their would have to be a roleblocker on the scum team. However, combined with your ability to play the role of aggresive townie and the actual circumstance of the bread crumb i highly doubt your lying and combined with probulous basically confirming that their is a role block role i think its safe to assume your town.

What i dont like about is why would the scum team continue to rally against you. It seems kind of silly to me to try and waste effort to try and cast doubt on you. Maybe im giving the scum team to much credit but in my view thier efforts are better spent else where.

So basically harrys accusation are so dumb in my view that he might be town because the scum team as whole i would think would recognize it would be a lost cause to go against you.

On July 20 2012 01:05 YourHarry wrote:
OH WOW. I THINK WE HAVE TO KILL JINGLE HELL........

JINGLE WHY DID YOU DRAW MAFIA..........

I WILL BE BACK LATER TO CLARIFY MY THOUGHTS

On July 20 2012 01:09 YourHarry wrote:
But....... Calgar today, i think. Jingle tomorrow maybe.

Hapha, I do understand that the absence of counter claim is the cause of doubt in my case against Jingle. Until that happens, I am in no way suggesting Jingle lynch, at least not today.

On July 21 2012 01:25 JingleHell wrote:
Hapa, meta case please? He's annoying as town, but not this terrible. And frankly, on the incredibly off chance he flips town, I still wouldn't call it a wasted day to ditch him. Any time there's a lull he makes the dumbest possible case? Maybe in the first half of D1 you can argue for that, but that's about it.

Frankly, I find it incredibly fishy that someone who's under suspicion would try to defend Harry.

On July 21 2012 06:32 YourHarry wrote:
OMG this is a miracle, but I am OK for lynching anyone else but me of course. I think I still prefer Hopeless, but wiggles has been lurking and is trying to benefit from my lynch.

##Unvote
##Vote drwiggl3s

On July 21 2012 08:45 JingleHell wrote:
Fulla and Tube, you really need to explain your votes.

On July 21 2012 13:13 Hopeless1der wrote:
--SNIP--

Day 1, wiggles was pushing tube as his scum read. I sincerely doubt he would have tried to bus that early in the game. This is a much weaker conclusion, but the case on tube seemed like a legitimate attempt to get him lynched.
I'm not 100% convinced that tube is town, but he's now going to be one of the last players I consider as a potential scum.
--SNIP--

On July 21 2012 23:57 JingleHell wrote:
Hapa, what do you think about that directly contradictory posting by Fulla?

On July 21 2012 23:57 calgar wrote:
Careful, you know where this got me last time around lol

On July 22 2012 02:39 iamperfection wrote:
also im going to the casino for the rest of the night wish me luck.

On July 23 2012 01:09 calgar wrote:
Maybe you're right. The point that convinced me the most was that he seemed like a better player last game - let me know what you think about that.

On July 23 2012 03:17 Fulla wrote:
I've tried building a case but it just gets ignored.

If someone would point out why I am wrong or they disagree I could rethink.

On July 24 2012 03:47 iamperfection wrote:

Are you going to vote?

On July 21 2012 04:38 calgar wrote:
I'll agree with you that drwiggles is a good lynch right now. Is he better than harry though? I'm planning to move my vote away from iamperfection - I may have come up with a solution to him, I'll post more on that in a little. Harry under fire has given us good reads on how several people have reacted.

On July 22 2012 08:23 calgar wrote:
Alright townies, I’ll call it like I see it.

Sorry to see you go jingle, we'll bag the rest for ya.

@confirmed townies – I consider everyone besides iamperfection, tube, fulla, and speed to be more or less ‘confirmed’ as town. This is in varying degrees, of course, considering the fact that we're going on guesses based on our reasoning. I feel reasonably confident that there is enough info to make solid assumptions here in most of the cases.

@direction – It’s difficult to say where to go now because the remaining players are a mix of inactivity and suspicious activity which is helping the mafia hide. I think all four of them have been generally inactive, some moreso than others. I assessed what tiny bit of mufaa’s old filter was there and the vague feel I got based off of it was town. Going off of what little that is, I’m inclined to put him/speedbump on hold and go towards the other three for now.

IGMEOY iamperfection, tube, fulla

I'll kick things off with this vote since it seems to be where hopeless and hapa are leaning towards also.
##Vote iamperfection

On July 23 2012 01:09 calgar wrote:
Maybe you're right. The point that convinced me the most was that he seemed like a better player last game - let me know what you think about that.

On July 18 2012 07:40 Hopeless1der wrote:
So, am I going to get chewed out for not changing my vote? If I do, its a last minute bandwagon, and if I don't its because I Obviously (teehee) "knew" he was town.
Unless someone unvotes Obvious.660, there is no way to alter the vote at this point because he got to 6 votes first.

On July 18 2012 07:51 Hopeless1der wrote:
If he flips scum, I still look bad because I've said he looked scummy, but didn't put my vote on him. I made that post to demonstrate the fact that I think I'm screwed no matter what I do at this point.

On July 18 2012 07:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'm preemptively pointing out the fact that I'm going to look scummy regardless of what I do, before someone can turn it into a case and run with it. Perhaps I should have just stayed quiet, but I've already said I'd be around at the deadline and I can see this turning out poorly for me. I'm trying to make my situation as transparent as possible to prevent people from considering I'm scum because of my voting pattern.

On July 25 2012 11:23 YourHarry wrote:
Dude, guys. This is MYLO. We should NOT vote. You can FOS, but voting could allow scums to bandwagon and end the game immediately.

On July 25 2012 12:15 YourHarry wrote:
Hapha, are you vanilla?

On July 25 2012 13:01 YourHarry wrote:


Yea, that's what I assumed but just to make it clear.

I don't know... I suck

Someone help LOL.

On July 25 2012 18:01 YourHarry wrote:
Wait, never mind. Calgar could still be the scum, but town calgar means either hopeless1 or iamperfection (or both) MUST be scums. This is because, if both hopeless1 and iamperfection are town voting for calgar, the scums would have already mislynched calgar.

On July 25 2012 17:59 YourHarry wrote:
FOS Speedbump and Calgar for being inactive and possibly lurking. Come share your thoughts with us.

Thanks Hopeless and iamperfection for posting your reads. Please continue to chime in as well as join me in voting for no lynch.

Hapha, what do you think about other people's case on calgar?

On July 25 2012 16:48 YourHarry wrote:
--SNIP--

Hapha, when Jingle started accusing drwiggles, what made you so obviously sure that drwiggles was scum? And you felt so adamant about everyone taking their votes from me. You were so sure?

On July 26 2012 09:55 Speedbump wrote:
Bolded the logical flaw I see in your post. It's much easier to make assumptions about how replacements play, instead of actually playing the game. To answer your flawed analysis there; unless the player pre-replacement plays exceptionally poorly, I don't think that the replacement has any onus of burden to defend himself overzealously, like you're implying. In fact, overzealous play causes more problems for town, with potential mislynches.

But then, when one is reckless and grasping at straws the whole game, it would be easier to make more brash and reckless assumptions to mislynch and win. Have you got anything substantial to go on, or is this all purely WIFOM?

FoS calgar

On July 26 2012 11:57 Speedbump wrote:



@Hapahauli and calgar: So what you're claiming is that I would somehow lie about internet connections being disconnected, and then conspicuously re-appear when I defend myself? Would you say the same thing if I re-appeared and I wasn't in the situation of defending myself? I find it odd that people tend to misconstrue things that happen with unfortunate timings with less trepidation than is due.

Matter of fact is, my net cut out for two days. This was both my mobile internet and the wifi at the backpackers I was staying at during the time. There was literally nothing I can do about that. If you want to overlook hunting for mafia to rail at me for not having an internet connection at the time, then town will lose.

On July 27 2012 05:28 calgar wrote:
You still haven’t posted any analysis or reads besides your OMGUS. Any of that coming anytime? Why don't you post some of you reads?

On July 26 2012 14:09 Speedbump wrote:
Day 1, you spend all your time flip-flopping your vote between iamperfection who you had constantly railed and backflipped to the whole day and YourHarry. (who you only decided to vote for after Hapahauli made his case) This was done in a manner of a person who doesn't care which person is lynched, which is heavily anti-town.

Day 2, more time spent flip-flopping between YourHarry and imperfection. This time, you spend a slight amount of time on Fulla's inactivity, while still heavily railing YourHarry and iamperfection. Afterwards, you continue your tunneling of iamperfection. You tthen decided to sheep drwiggl3s, while still tunneling YourHarry, only voting for drwiggl3s once he had 4 votes on him.

Day 3, yet more time spent tunneling iamperfection, only deciding to follow iamperfection in voting tube, after Hapahauli and Hopeless1der had already weighed in their suspicions of tube. This sudden flip-flop on your aggression towards iamperfection looks very suspicious, considering a mislynch in that scenario leads to MYLO the next day.

On July 26 2012 03:54 calgar wrote:
My play has definitely been reckless. I’ve been aggressive and posted reads and made mistakes. That’s been the same all game long. I was grasping at straws when I tried to read in hopeless, kind of like with my attempted meta-analysis of iamperfection. Here’s my new case.

On July 28 2012 11:12 calgar wrote: Does Harry's read as town not mean anything to you?

Humor me - what if I were town? Certainly mafia would leave me alive, right? I'm an automatic mislynch because of all the suspicion on me. Are you really sure there are no blues left? I think there's one more. Look at past games - I doubt there have ever been only two. This is all WIFOM, but if no one had a strong read on me, why would I go posting my bullshit cases on several people? I think this shows the motive of desperate townie more than mafia.

Obvious.660 read me as town. So did jingle. Apparently YourHarry did too. You’re voting against all of their reads, as confirmed town. Doesn’t sound smart to me.

On July 29 2012 03:27 calgar wrote:
--SNIP—
YourHarry got his read right on me. So did jingle, so did obvious. One last mislynch and it’s game over. Am I really the best lynch?

On July 29 2012 08:35 calgar wrote:
--SNIP--

Everyone who thought I was town was shot. Is that not a little bit weird? Is mafia not trying to aim a mislynch in a certain direction? Seems like it would be really easy to do so.

I see mafia motive behind speedbumps' lack of posting. He should have been more active since he agreed to replace in. He didn't need to be, though, because the town was headed to mislynch with fingers pointing the wrong direction. He steps in soon after getting attacked, but only enough to divert attention. Where are his reads? Why isn't he posting any analysis? He doesn't need to be. I was the easiest target for him to focus on because of my recent accusation against hopeless, so he pointed the finger back to me. Well, it's worked so far so tip of the hat to him.

I think it does show me as town, though. At this point jingle is essentially ‘confirmed town’ and had most of the towns support. When I was asked if I were roleblocked, the easiest answer would have been to say yes. By saying I didn’t, I directly contradicted everything jingle had said and claimed. He claimed jailor, he claimed he jailed me, according to the rules, I should have been notified. Why would I challenge him like that if I were mafia? I posted honestly, instead, contradicting him. The mod came in and conveniently explained everything so that jingle was once again essentially confirmed, and me essentially confirmed as having no active role due to the lack of notification. I couldn’t have known that the mod was going to post the explanation though. As far as I was concerned, it could have turned into a huge “me vs. jingle who is lying about the roleblock” debate. I had less town cred so I would have lost that, guaranteed.

I’ve already explained my thoughts on iamperfection. If he flips mafia then I guess I’m the fool for falling for his antics. I’ve seen the other people playing poorly this game flip town. I changed my mind before I had to see him flip this time.


Well, this didn’t work very well considering jingle died.

On July 29 2012 10:31 calgar wrote:
You've posted twice in 60 hours - sleep has nothing to do with this. What does a different timezone have to do with that kind of inactivity? Mafia is literally lurking to victory here. A real townie would be making reads and trying to be productive. Speedbump's filter (or absence in this case) should speak for itself.

I think a lot of the case for poor voting can be made for hopeless and iamperfection. Come on guys, switch your votes! They're hoping you'll go along with the case. Try and rethink it objectively based on the facts.

On July 30 2012 08:30 JingleHell wrote:
So, would a scum mind explaining the NKs that weren't me?

On July 30 2012 09:56 Blazinghand wrote:
...
Also, iamperfection should have known calgar was town since he had a town read on hopeless-- if calgar is scum, even, one of hapa/speed had to be scum, and for them to bus so thoroughly made little sense.

On July 30 2012 10:38 calgar wrote:
Eh, I dunno. I don't think I could have overcome confirmation bias... they weren't contemplating any other possibility. Anything I said would have been (and was) twisted immediately and since they hadn't figured it out by then I don't think anything I could have said would have mattered.

To me the final giveaway was when you made the fake 'FoS' and then backed off and came at me with the huge 'case'.

On July 30 2012 13:34 JingleHell wrote:


And you told me it was too obvious.

Which is when I started coming up with tons of contingency plans for it that had NOTHING to do with the original intent. Never show indecisiveness. Even if you backtrack all over yourself, do it aggressively. It makes you townie. Like Hapa. He stayed assertive and stayed below people's most scummy spot.

On July 30 2012 23:10 JingleHell wrote:


The original plan was to RB Calgar, who I thought was shady.

The notion of "trying" to get you NKed to see if scum were after you came when I was told it was blatantly obvious by BallsinHand. Well, if it's that obvious, how can I use that?

You got to admit, from a contingency plan point of view, it was a good use. Or could have been, had it been actually noticed.

On July 31 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:


You trying to get both of them convinced me that one of them was definitely scum. I really thought it was calgar and iamperfection.
@Hapa, did you really have a train to catch day1?

On July 31 2012 10:51 JingleHell wrote:


True story. The mafia know who's who. Everyone else only knows about themselves and flips.

Best solution, never trust anybody. Never make a soft case. Even if a case is weak, make a hard sale. People seemed to think I was overly relentless early, that's actually just because if you back off from a position without a good reason, it's scummy as all hell.

Hapa, can you honestly tell me you wouldn't have had me mislynched in five minutes if I'd been similarly vocal, but with soft pressure instead of the relentless shit I did? Wishy washy, preparing busses, spreading confusion...

The only way to play active town is to be implacable. If you're really town, you should be able to explain most of your motive for actions if you get quizzed on them. That's why scum lurk a lot. Less to explain. But it does lose you the hidden benefit of having provided a town read (assuming you can stay fairly consistent).

Example - If Hapa had tried what Wiggles did, when he did, it would have turned into a last minute 50/50 OMGUS shouting match to see who got lynched. Or just a straight up success for the ploy. 50% from an OMGUS war would have been my BEST odds of living through it.