EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XX - Page 41
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
I ask that no one discuss this anymore so that scum can come up with the best decision based on reading all our brainstorming. No more is needed | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Mackin - Votes for YourHarry randomly, does not post again until late in N1 LazerMonkey - Votes for JingleHell, posts lynch "wish-list" supspecting Jingle/JieXian/Hope/TMG, then changes vote to Hopeless when the vote total gets close at the end. Slightly suspicious, but his posting tone/analysis has been very pro townie so far, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. BassinSpace - Voted for Hopeless early, pushed for his lynch, no vote changes. Hapahauli (me! =D) - Voted for Hopeless early, pushed for Hopeless's lynch, no vote changes. The one voting pattern that sticks out to me is YourHarry's: YourHarry - [List][*]Votes for Hopeless, "Hopeless is flailing, kill it with fire" (right before I post my formal case) [*]Half a day later, unvotes Hopeless and votes for TMG. This is after Hopeless posted his defense, and two votes were placed on Lazermonkey (lazermonkey is leading 2-1). Furthermore, this is not too long after JieXian reads Hopeless's defense, is "convinced," and switches votes from Hopeless to Lazer [*]1 minute after TMG vote, posts that "JieXian and Hopeless are prob town" with no reasoning. [*]A few minutes later, posts: "Guys, go after TMG. I will take responsibility, if mislynch. :D " [*]With 4 hours to lynch deadline, asks Lazer to declare if he's blue (Lazer is leading 4-3 in vote total) [*]Posts that he will re-evaluate my case against Hopeless after I get into a huge argument with Jingle over the D1 lynch. Also states that he is "OK" with the Lazer lynch on the basis that Lazer claimed townie. Also posted that he'd try to find a better target if possible. [*]Votes Hopeless a couple of minutes later (ties the vote 4-4 with Lazer set to get lynched). So I ask YourHarry to explain his actions before the D1 lynch deadline. His vote pattern follows the strengthening/weakening of the lynch-Hopeless movement on Day 1. In addition, his vote on TMG has almost no reasoning behind it. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
YourHarry -
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On July 07 2012 14:57 YourHarry wrote: I am OK with JingleHell lynch day2. After my initial quick vote on Hopeless beginning of day1, JingleHell quickly tried to reverse the bandwagon against me. He also belongs to the possible scum list, outlined in my previous post. LINK | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
In regards to the quote above, YourHarry did quickvote Hopeless, but ignores the fact that he jumped off the bandwagon after some players jumped on Lazer. Read the whole story of events in my YourHarry voting timeline. FOS: YourHarry | ||
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On July 10 2012 13:04 Hapahauli wrote: YourHarry -
So I ask YourHarry to explain his actions before the D1 lynch deadline. His vote pattern follows the strengthening/weakening of the lynch-Hopeless movement on Day 1. In addition, his vote on TMG has almost no reasoning behind it. Sure, I will try my best. When I initially voted for hopeless, I believe my post was sandwiched between your three long posts accusing Hopeless. Actually I remember finding your arguments somewhat interesting. They were so long and had bunch of links, etc, but I was not quite convinced by it. My voting on hopeless and "kill it with fire" trolling was more to pressure hopeless to see how he would respond. Your meta argument that came after my vote was more convincing than the first two that came before my vote. Still, I thought hopeless defended himself well (although turned out that he was scum) and I removed my vote. I recall someone else also removing his vote from Hopeless. This should actually make me more suspicious because, now knowing that hopeless is scum, me being his scum partner would have had easier time unvoting my partner hopeless when others are also unvoting him. With this, I have no defense but to say that it was based on my change in belief that hopeless was town. And if you ask me what about hopeless defense was convincing, it would be difficult for me to answer. My decision was based on overall feel of the defense. No one else does that?  I did provide a reason for for voting TMG, though the reason may have sounded stupid. TMG expressed his intimidation to play the game of mafia in a foreign language: [B]TMG wrote So basically you guys are acusing me based on my heplessness and the lack of new content in my post... Ok, its my very first game here, and i only played mafia twice on a totally different community and on a different language, so its a litle bit natural to me to be a litle bit "scared" I guess I did not quite buy that he would be a bit "scared." He was either lying or he was not. If he was lying to defend himself, it would make him a likely scum. Townies sometimes lie to when defending or accusing someone, but I think in average, scums are more likely to lie in their defense. And if he was not lying, and if he was actually scared, I reasoned that he was likely scum. I am usually only nervous when playing scum in real life and to a lesser degree on the forums. I am never nervous as a townie. You may ask "Well, if a scum is actually scared, why would he actually say that he is scared?" Well, I have done something similar. When I am scum and get nervous and scared. at least partially being able to express the truth about my being scared can help me sound more genuine and help me come across as more genuine - allowing me deceive others that I am town. But maybe now I am just arguing for the argument's sake. I just thought TMG was scum. And when you don't have a strong read in anyone else (and I didn't at the time), it takes something small like this to convince yourself. Overall, Hapha, I think, for you to have a reasonable ground to accuse me, there should have been a motive for me to choose TMG over lazer. I could have easily fabricated reasons to hop on lazer badnwagon instead of providing seemingly stupid (but personally genuine) reasons to go after TMG, whose wagon was much more difficult to complete. And since we know that lazer and I both cannot be scums, there is no logical reason for me to insist on TMG lynch over lazer lynch. Scum Harry simply would not have cared between TMG or lazer mislynch (lazer is town assuming I am scum). My reason for asking lazer to claim was based on lazer's initial post. His first post made me think that he was likely a power role. I was wrong, but my effort to not disclose this information until lazer was projected to be lynched should award me some townie points. If I was scum, hoping that lazer's first post hinted likely power role, I would have kept quiet and chose lazer over TMG or hopeless. And ultimately, I did choose lynch hopeless over lazer in the end. And while my vote only tied lazer vs. hopeless vote, given that it was made hours before the deadline where more votes were sure to come, it is hard to disagree that my vote was projected to make a difference. In addition, my previous posts outlining my lack of certainty for either lazer or hopeless lynch, I could have easily chose lazer and avoided suspicion. And as you mentioned, I even expressed that lazer was probably not the worst lynch after lazer's claim that he was not a power role. Yet, I still voted hopeless. And while my post analyzing my town and scum reads LINK I have included TMG as one of the townies, whom I suspected on day 1. This should make me suspicious, especially with TMG NK'ed on night 1. I don't have a good excuse for it, but no matter how you look at it, TMG voting for hopeless did make him strong townie. Here are some reasons you should think I am probably a town: - I prevented from medic from claiming, initially. Right now, actually, I don't think medic claiming makes much of a difference, but the fact that I thought about the different strategies to maximize town victory should provide reasons for you to believe my townness. - I also strongly pushed for two claim phase, so that the power roles would not claim unless they provided additional information would be provided. - I insisted many times for whoever got roleblocked to claim. If I was a scum, knowing that I either did not roleblock anyone or roleblocked TMG, I would have fake-claimed roleblocked. Considering I was the one who posited the possibility of scum skipping roleblock to claim roleblock, it would have been a rather safe way to be cleared - especially when the current state of the game so unfavorable to scum. Scum Harry would have claimed roleblocked. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I also have some questions regarding the end of your defense. On July 10 2012 14:41 YourHarry wrote: --SNIP-- Here are some reasons you should think I am probably a town: - I prevented from medic from claiming, initially. Right now, actually, I don't think medic claiming makes much of a difference, but the fact that I thought about the different strategies to maximize town victory should provide reasons for you to believe my townness. - I also strongly pushed for two claim phase, so that the power roles would not claim unless they provided additional information would be provided. - I insisted many times for whoever got roleblocked to claim. If I was a scum, knowing that I either did not roleblock anyone or roleblocked TMG, I would have fake-claimed roleblocked. Considering I was the one who posited the possibility of scum skipping roleblock to claim roleblock, it would have been a rather safe way to be cleared - especially when the current state of the game so unfavorable to scum. Scum Harry would have claimed roleblocked. The first two points don't give me a strong town read because they're fairly non-controversial/non-original issues. Multiple people in the town were posting similar ideas, and its not like Mafia would give bad advice on blues in the first place. As for the Roleblock thing, I've been thinking about that a lot for the last hour or so, and there are only two situations that I can come up with. 1) You (assuming you're mafia) didn't Roleblock because you had no good targets. Instead, you saved it as a ploy to gain trust as a townie and brought it to light as early as possible. 2) Mackin's (assuming he's mafia) 24 hour IRL issues was rushed to send in a lynch PM and forgot about his roleblock action. While this is all speculation, most of the points above are fairly non-controversial and would have been brought up at some point by another townie. Lastly, this post is just really really strange: On July 08 2012 18:50 YourHarry wrote: Anyways town victory is almost a certainty. Even if we randomized all of our actions, as long as we lynch from unconfirmed list, we should cruise to victory. According to my calculations, something like 3% chance of losing. Additional strategy. Both detective and tracker should publicize who they will target. They should pick two different players. The medic can randomly protect tracker or detective, but if either detective or tracker makes it known that he will target the medic, do not protect that person (for example, detective plans to target A and tracker plans to target B, and if A turns out to be the medic, medic should protect the tracker who's targeting someone other than medic). Guidelines on day 3: Tracker and detective should immediately report. The perfect scenario is if any power role receives "innocent" or "no visit". As long as we have one additional confirmed townie, we are guaranteed a 100% victory. If detective is alive and he received "guilty" on player X, we should lynch X regardless. If detective is dead and tracker targeted the player Y who "visited Z", we should kill Y as long as Z got lynched at night. Again, Y cannot be the medic here because nurse should have protected the detective if tracker publicized his plan to target the medic (And yes, tracker is more powerful than detective at this time). I really want to play through this game, but I feel the responsibility to volunteer to lynch myself. I am a vanilla townie and I do not want to risk having to force the medic to claim. Good job Hapah, if you are town If not, you lose Good game everyone and good luck!! ##Vote YourHarry I can't follow the logic of you voting for yourself to not force the medic to claim. On top of that, how is lynching yourself (from a VT perspective) pro-town? | ||
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
Hapha wrote: I can't follow the logic of you voting for yourself to not force the medic to claim. On top of that, how is lynching yourself (from a VT perspective) pro-town? At the time, I thought medic not claiming was so important that I determined that it is okay to sacrifice one unconfirmed townie. My reasoning for the importance of medic's anonymity was based on the false assumption that scum would target the medic (scum would actually target DT and tracker). Under this assumption, there is a chance that we may attempt to lynch the medic amongst the unconfirmed townies, who would then have to claim. Scum would then roleblock the medic and NK the tracker. DT can still have a chance to check one person, who most likely will guarantee us the victory, but this still will not be as desirable as scum having to guess the medic to roleblock or NK. Regarding my lack of analysis on players: Since the modkill of god father and our successful lynch of mafia rolecop in hopeless, there really hasn't been much motivation to scum hunt based on scummy behaviors or actions. The more important thing at that point was to establish an optimal protocols for role-claims and night actions. When the victory seems so obvious, it is easy to lose motivation. We still have all of the power roles intact, and there is only 1 scum amongst 10 total townies. Kudos to you, actually, for persevering to continue your scum hung. Hapha wrote:The first two points don't give me a strong town read because they're fairly non-controversial/non-original issues. Multiple people in the town were posting similar ideas, and its not like Mafia would give bad advice on blues in the first place. When you first proposed power roles claiming, no one else has brought up the idea of medic claiming vanilla until needed to. Sure, you can say it's non-controversial and maybe scum Harry predicted someone else would try to stop the medic from claiming. And when I attempted to tell the power roles to claim one at a time, again no one else had brought up the idea. And sure, you can again say that it is common practice and common sense to avoid claiming until required to. Yet, these kind of reasoning can be applied to dismiss almost any pro-town actions. For example, you consistently pushed for hopeless lynch even as others expressed doubts. You did not waver once. Simple argument would be that you did your job as a townie correctly to lynch the scum. Same reasoning as above can be applied to dismiss your actions as something a scum would do win townie points. As far as my possibility of scum Harry not roleblocking anyone and deciding not to claim "roleblocked": it is not an action that I would take as a scum. Asking people to claim "roleblocked" may indeed win me some town points. But at the time, the scum's hope of winning is so bleak, winning some town points is almost futile. However, claiming "roleblocked" would have provided scum Harry with some decent chance of being cleared. It would simply be a sub-optimal play for scum Harry to choose not to claim "roleblocked". | ||
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
And when I attempted to tell the power roles to claim one at a time, again no one else had brought up the idea. And sure, you can again say that it is common practice and common sense to avoid claiming until required to. Yet, these kind of reasoning can be applied to dismiss almost any pro-town actions. This is the problem with your current play, and why people may have problems with your defense. "Pro-town actions" includes hunting for mafia, which you haven't been doing. This has already been mentioned but I'd just like to stress that telling the medic not to claim does not count as pro town. It's obvious that the medic shouldn't claim; they can't give us information on town players, so we have no reason to get them to claim to prove their credibility. In fact, an attitude like yours, where you just take a town victory for granted without trying to actually hunt scum, creates the optimal environment for you if you are mafia. You wouldn't need to worry about being found out if no one's actively looking for you, and you would only need to worry about getting lucky with your roleblock/shot and dodging a DT check or track. Also, you were not the first to ask whoever got roleblocked to come forward with that information. Release was, on page 26: On July 08 2012 10:39 Release wrote: anyone got roleblocked, claim now. is it possible that we have more than 1 DT/Medic/miller/tracker? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
As for Evul and Jiexian. In case you guys didn't get it, pick a name from here: Me Hapa Mackin Bass Harry And investigate him. Do not tell who you've investigate untill the day tho. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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BassInSpace
Australia165 Posts
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The_Zen_Man
Sweden202 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Day 3 ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_l5VpZWTDVlw/TBjwdjxOaOI/AAAAAAAAApQ/9_vCdL7yo2M/s400/prince_of_persia_concept_6.jpg) The townsfolk of Liquidia had returned to their homes. There was an uneasy air about the place; they had managed to get rid of so many of the interlopers, but they knew one remained. Clouds of mistrust swirled around their heads as most of town fell into an uneasy slumber. Out in the streets, the shadows from the streetlights loomed large. A newspaper rustled by with Release's face on the front page, a memory of the comrade who met his maker at the hands of his own people. Not everyone was asleep though. Shadowy figures sliced through the night, making barely a sound. JieXian knew his task. He wanted to make sure that the person he sought lay resting in his bed. He made his way down the street, a dark cloak shielding his body. The leaves rustled and perhaps he heard a step? He turned round and saw nothing. As he headed towards his target, JieXian felt a swish of air, and suddenly a piece of rope pulled tight around his neck. He gasped for air and desperately tried to turn to see who his assailant was, but to no avail. "I will not go down without a fight," hissed his attacker. And with that a knife slid across JieXian's throat, and he crumpled to the ground, blood pouring out of his neck. Town would have a nasty surprise to wake up to. JieXian, town Tracker, has been killed! It is now Day 3! You have just under 48 hours until the next lynch! | ||
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