/in
(I'll pull out if a newbie wants in and just be on the replacement list)
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heist
United States720 Posts
/in (I'll pull out if a newbie wants in and just be on the replacement list) | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
The issue isn't with the unknown setup. It doesn't matter. No matter what the setup is, we should always go through with a Day 1 lynch. The flaw with your logic is that the lynches are not pure probability. We are not condemning some poor soul to death from a name in a hat. It is based on people's reactions to pressure, contradictions, activity level, and other information generated by discussion. When someone dies, most of us should be feeling comfortable with it. If anything, the purpose of a Day 1 lynch is not some slim chance of lynching mafia, but for information. Information we can use to lead the course of Day 2 and onward. In your scenario, every lynch is an isolated incident. The lynches of each day are not independent. The outcome of a Day 1 lynch WILL affect the outcome of the Day 2 lynch, and only for the better because of all us will have a clearer picture of the situation. --- In other news: I wanted to suggest a few things to town that you may or may not find useful: 1. DO NOT claim you are a vanilla townie. We won't believe you AND you should be glad to die in place of a blue. We don't want to limit the pool of possible blues. 2. Attention DT (if we have one) - Let's say you get a lucky check on scum. Do not reveal yourself day 2. Do not come screaming into the thread with your pants still at your feet. You are not guaranteed a medic. Breadcrumb your result. Look at their behavior and create an accusation. Anything is better than a reveal. 3. This is a newbie game. Most people don't know what to do as a blue role. Pretend you don't have it. Seriously, most people with a blue role are afraid to stick their head out and, as a result, are often mistaken for scum. We don't want to hang you so please don't give us a reason. Be active. 4. Try not to bandwagon with a simple "I agree with ___". We want to limit our lynch candidates. The voting patterns of Day 1 may end up leading us to an excellent mafia candidate day 3 or later. If we have people voting all over the place, the usefulness of the day 1 lynch becomes diluted. That's not say don't be aggressive. Don't be afraid to poke the bear right in the eye if you feel good about an accusation. --- @Cattivik "Sciberbia is the most active poster so far, also he's not promoting a NL, he's questioning day1 lynch. Whatever, I'm pretty sure he's clean, no mafia would go for the first post in a newbie game." That defense is borderline scummy. There is nothing that mafia won't do. Do not assume he's clean because he's the first post in a newbie game. Obviously this is only your first impression, but your reasoning is a little off here. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
Your reasoning makes sense, sciberbia, it also allows to choose a lynch with more information available, however returning less information in the beginning. I would still go for the lynch. At least to get rid of pesky lurkers and inactives, in case there's noone stinking of scum already. Look at this beginning statement. He agrees with Sciberbia's plan, but decides to support the complete opposite? CONTRADICTION. To me, this looks like he's going with the popular opinion (afraid to rock the boat) while simultaneously seeming to offer him support and defense. Either you agree or you don't. Show nested quote + On May 31 2012 07:59 Miltonkram wrote: With all that said, sciberbia has awakened my suspicions. He spends a lot of time with his first post promoting a no lynch. Notice that he weakly pushes his assumption that a no-lynch might be optimal so that he can back down from that assumption later without too much fuss. I think he knows that lynching is the best play, but he wants to divide town into discussing policy instead of actively scumhunting. Thoughts town? Sciberbia is the most active poster so far, also he's not promoting a NL, he's questioning day1 lynch. Whatever, I'm pretty sure he's clean, no mafia would go for the first post in a newbie game. That said, I'm pretty sure Miltonkram is one of us aswell, although I think he makes a mistake pointing the finger at one of the most active in here. O.Golden_ne posted nicely already aswell. As for solstice, i'm not sure. His first post reflect a certain indecision whispering: 'Do whatever you want, I'm in for it.' Then he points the finger at the most active player. I won't say you're scummy, but you aren't clean yet in my book as opposed to the others.Why do you question our most active townie. Ange777's post makes him look like he's bandwagoning if you look at the majority of the pro-lynch responses before.A pretty thin post. Still, all of those don't stink scummy until we get information from people who didn't post already. He seems to really trust Sciberbia based solely on his activity and the notion that "first post can't be mafia" (I mentioned this before). His further reasoning: "Sciberbia is not promoting a NL, he's questioning a day 1 lynch". No. Sciberbia is definitely promoting a NL. It's been obvious since his reasoning. He attempts to remove heat from Sciberbia, over promoting his townie-ness and attacking others who place suspicion on him. He tries to deflect all opposition from Sciberbia, which at this point, is frankly strange. (look at his analysis on Solstice and Miltonkram). He goes out of his way to defend him and his plan while being careful not stick his neck out by staying with the town majority. | ||
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United States720 Posts
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United States720 Posts
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United States720 Posts
On May 31 2012 13:18 Eishi_Ki wrote: Sorry for delaying, I was washing the blood off me knife. Skinning a pig can be tiring work.... Anyway, so far what I've got is that Cattivik seems the most likely candidate for scum (overuses collectives such as 'us' and 'we') and doesn't provide any evidence for initially supporting Scib and then saying he wants to LD1 anyway. However, I'm also cautious of Milton. Sciberbia seems like the obvious guy who is going against the grain here and I feel that was jumped on at the first available opportunity. Promoting Townies to be active for more information helps everyone, not just the Townies but his post was tendered towards the Townies which I feel may be a guise. Needz moar infos I agree with needing more information. And by no means should you blindly follow any accusations. I take it you agree with me on Cattivik but can you clarify your first point about the overuse of the "collective". How exactly is this a scumtell? I'd like some further responses, especially, especially from you, Cattivik. Overall, it's looking as if we aren't going to be plagued by inactivity and lurking although I would prod Superouman and Ange77 to post more and be active. @Sciberbia thanks for the discussion generator, but I'm sure it's apparent that the town majority heavily favors a Day 1 lynch and we should proceed to do so. So enough about policy, I'm curious as to your your thoughts on the other players and suspicions. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On May 31 2012 20:20 Cattivik wrote: I'll answer to some of the accusations towards me here, also revealing more important information: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 11:47 O.Golden_ne wrote: @Cattivik Your posting reads so early, with not alot of actual content to date. Early days yet, though remember i'm watching you. Miltonkram what a great post before work. I agree with all points you've said and want anyone who want's to discuss policy to just read that post. I slightly agree with your position on sciberbia as he is promoting policy discussion about no-lynch, however i agree that mafia first post is improbable. My main suspicion lies with Cattivik, though once sciberbia posts some responses to your accusation i will consider a vote on him. ##FOS: Cattivik Miltonkram has finally understood the point sciberbia was trying to make, you also agree on my point about him most likely not being mafia due to first post. His post has generated most discussion so far. Probably more than by just voting for someone based on a gut feeling. From the start of the game the majority, including me, was for D1 lynching, making sciberbias post obsolete cause we won't be discussing policy anyway.It is clear that someone will hang at the end of the day. + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 12:27 heist wrote: Let's have a look at Cattivik. Show nested quote + Your reasoning makes sense, sciberbia, it also allows to choose a lynch with more information available, however returning less information in the beginning. I would still go for the lynch. At least to get rid of pesky lurkers and inactives, in case there's noone stinking of scum already. Look at this beginning statement. He agrees with Sciberbia's plan, but decides to support the complete opposite? CONTRADICTION. To me, this looks like he's going with the popular opinion (afraid to rock the boat) while simultaneously seeming to offer him support and defense. Either you agree or you don't. I never agreed to a plan: On May 31 2012 07:48 Cattivik wrote: Giovanni Falcone reporting in. Pro lynch, any information better than no information. Also, Sciberbia, the blue font is reserved for the mods. Let's see who's active, i also remember a guy announcing exams, anyone silent will hang from the towns' tree. On May 31 2012 07:58 Cattivik wrote: Sounds like he thought that a medic setup could save a townie from being lynched, but what for? As far as i know the alignment isn't revealed unless the target dies, in this case it won't. But I was able to understand his logic concerning the difference between D1L/NL once he explained it. Also, there is one more tell for him being actually town: It's unlikely that such a mistake would happen to three mafia at the same time, who without doubt know each others' posts before they are out. In fact, posting in blue font confirms him as townie. Aswell as the fact that it would require a pretty solid plan for mafia to start with the first post, I don't see anything unfolding here though Obviously I took him into defense cause I don't want the most active posters to die first cause they have the balls to expose their neck to easy triggers who do all the work for the mafia by doing so. First and foremost, the lurkers and cautious ones have to get votes, else they can just keep lurking. On May 31 2012 12:27 heist wrote: He seems to really trust Sciberbia based solely on his activity and the notion that "first post can't be mafia" (I mentioned this before). His further reasoning: "Sciberbia is not promoting a NL, he's questioning a day 1 lynch". No. Sciberbia is definitely promoting a NL. It's been obvious since his reasoning. He attempts to remove heat from Sciberbia, over promoting his townie-ness and attacking others who place suspicion on him. He tries to deflect all opposition from Sciberbia, which at this point, is frankly strange. (look at his analysis on Solstice and Miltonkram). He goes out of his way to defend him and his plan while being careful not stick his neck out by staying with the town majority. Based on the response to the previous quotes, I'm not just 'with' the majority, I've been part of it from the start of this game (for a D1 lynch before even knowing what sciberbias reasoning was). And it's in the best interest of the town to keep productive townies alive, sciberbia among them. I also don't like all this fingerpointing between active townies, if there are mafia still lurking, they can lean back. + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 13:18 Eishi_Ki wrote: Sorry for delaying, I was washing the blood off me knife. Skinning a pig can be tiring work.... Anyway, so far what I've got is that Cattivik seems the most likely candidate for scum (overuses collectives such as 'us' and 'we') and doesn't provide any evidence for initially supporting Scib and then saying he wants to LD1 anyway. However, I'm also cautious of Milton. Sciberbia seems like the obvious guy who is going against the grain here and I feel that was jumped on at the first available opportunity. Promoting Townies to be active for more information helps everyone, not just the Townies but his post was tendered towards the Townies which I feel may be a guise. Needz moar infos You confused something, first I said i want to LD1, then i defended sciberbia. I've never even considered a NL in this game, but I don't claim that it doesn't make sense in any situation. In summary, the controversy about the policy talk seems to be dead to me. There is gonna be a D1 lynch. This is also a tl;dr version of the post for people who trust me anyway. Here, my updated statements regarding some of the players posting so far: Heist: I'll wait to see how he reacts to his arguments' dismissal now that sciberbia should be a confirmed townie. If I was scum, I'd know about his status and wouldn't have taken him into defense against a majority. However, given that i suspect others more for their passivity, I dont think that Heist is scum. Ange777: Stop lurking. I'll vote for you. Superouman: Stop making fun of a tragedy and sleeping all day, but more especially, stop lurking. I'll vote for you too when the time is ripe. Eishi_Ki: Pretty poor arguments to accuse me, but blends in well with the opinions of the former posts.You also say you have a reason to keep lurking. A win/win situation for mafia. You also suspect those who are most active here. Then there's this: Show nested quote + On May 31 2012 14:04 Eishi_Ki wrote: Yeah just a note on my activity times, I live in Korea so 7am KST actually 7am (whodathunk) and I gotta work, so activity time before the deadline will be minimal I'm afraid (or maybe it's a good thing, hmm) Dude, what. How is it a good thing? You are basically saying that you won't contribute much to the scumhunt while the scumjuice flows out of your every pore. I don't even want to go on with other players cause I think you should start telling us more about your thought processes: ##VOTE :Eishi_Ki I'll try to break it down. Sciberbia is NOT a confirmed townie. I think that's what the rest of us has a hard time seeing. Your faith in him is just ridiculously high at this point that it's creating a lot of suspicion. You keep using these short justifying statements such as "he posted first, he can't be mafia" "he accidentally used blue font, he can't be mafia" that in all honesty don't say anything at all about alignment. Just because someone mistakenly uses blue font, you cannot confirm them as town. Sciberbia doesn't even need to be mafia. You can be scum, trying to win over a fellow townie by being the only one coming to his defense. And the one time you branch out of Sciberbia defense, you hastily vote to lynch someone that is accusing you. Your subsequent attack on eishi seems really out of place and reactionary. I'm just not seeing how after all this he's the one you think is most scummy. Sciberbia I would really like your opinion on Cattivik. Go through his filter, almost every single one of his posts is him defending you. Naturally I'm still quite suspicious. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
@ Superouman: I'd love to hear your thoughts on some candidates, more than a simple "let's kill lurkers, they ruin town atmosphere". It sounds good in theory, but.... no names, no analysis, just something easily said and ultimately something town can't really use. So looking forward to some more posts from you @Ange77: I hope you blow me away to make up for not contributing much. No pressure | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
Typo. Don't want to seem like an idiot. | ||
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United States720 Posts
And its.......... a wild vote on Sciberbia from nowhere. I want a reason. A good reason. heist: One of the things I notice is that you didn't acknowledge my defence so far. You also didn't post a definite opinion in form of a vote or FoS. You gave general hints at the start. I can't tell if you are mafia or town. Cattivik, I did respond. Filter me in case you missed it. And make no mistake you are still my #1 candidate, which I hope you got from the content and tone of my posts. I just don't like cementing early reads Day 1 with a formal vote, which in all honesty is pretty useless this early. It's enough for me to present my case against you to the town. Alright, now to my next defense: I'm one of the most, if not the most active poster in this game so far. Assuming that I survive this day or night while being mafia, my posts make me so transparent that I wouldn't survive day 2 for certain. In that case, I would have played mafia like an idiot. Also cause I'm exposing myself quite extremely. Whoever should be proven wrong for promoting the case against me in case I get lynched will most likely get in trouble the next day, cause I will flip town. Cattivik, what this argument amounts to is: I'm really active and because of that I'm bound to slip up as Mafia. Therefore, I can't be mafia since I wouldn't be so active to prevent slip-ups. Careful, you are very close to admitting that you are using your activity and extreme opinions as a shield to deflect every suspicious thing you are doing. Essentially you want us to disregard anything suspicious you might do because of how vulnerable you are putting yourself. Activity is protown, but by no means does it determine alignment. I would take note of this: Solstice, Xatalos, & Sciberbia. I understand your arguments. You feel no mafia would put himself so out there with such a sustained defense. I'm not so convinced that mafia won't be so "extreme". I also don't have the benefit of knowing your alignment as you do Sciberbia. The only thing tempering my opinion on Cattivik is actually my mostly town reading on Sciberbia. However, among the two leading candidates, unforgiven_ve and Cattivik, I am not really convinced of unforgiven's scumminess. He promised another post, and I'll reserve judgment till then. So I'll be sticking with Cattivik for the time being, BUT Superouman is rapidly rising in my suspicions. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
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United States720 Posts
There is no reason that one townie should be that sure of another townie, Day 1 especially. For me, there is absolutely no one that I'm so convinced of as Cattivik seems to be. So any attempt to deflect every single accusation on a fellow player is of course highly suspicious on my mind. Mafia tend to find it much safer to create a stance defending someone rather than accusing someone. Fewer repercussions. It suggests to me an ulterior motive. And now he's starting to suggest that any indication of his scumminess needs to be disregarded precisely because he defends you to such an extent. It's convenient and not out of the realm of mafia possibilities. He is simply my most suspicious player especially since the alternatives are not very convincing at this point. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 01 2012 07:56 sciberbia wrote: @heist So it seems you find it most likely that I am town, Cattivik is mafia, and he is just trying to gain townie cred. This is a reasonable hypothesis, but imo it's not that likely. The tone of Cattivik's posts suggests to me that he is a very confident, aggresive player. And therefore it is in character to be more sure about his beliefs than most people would be. Also, he went out of his way to defend me. Nobody even asked his opinion. The reason I ask is that under your hypothesis, your town-read of me should reinforce your mafia-read of Cattivik, rather than 'temper' it. I guess this is a bit counter-intuitive. My town read of you is definitely something that tempers my evaluation of Cattivik. The alternative of you being mafia, and Cattivik being your scumbuddy is a much more damning alternative and i would be pushing HARD, much harder than now, for a lynch. On June 01 2012 08:16 Vivax wrote: Show nested quote + On June 01 2012 07:34 heist wrote: @ Sciberbia There is no reason that one townie should be that sure of another townie, Day 1 especially. For me, there is absolutely no one that I'm so convinced of as Cattivik seems to be. So any attempt to deflect every single accusation on a fellow player is of course highly suspicious on my mind. Mafia tend to find it much safer to create a stance defending someone rather than accusing someone. Fewer repercussions. It suggests to me an ulterior motive. And now he's starting to suggest that any indication of his scumminess needs to be disregarded precisely because he defends you to such an extent. It's convenient and not out of the realm of mafia possibilities. He is simply my most suspicious player especially since the alternatives are not very convincing at this point. Townies not being sure of each other is ideal for mafia, it doesn't limit the pool of suspects, which is actually what I'm trying to do and you are disrupting. When we lynch with no read and maximum pool of suspects, we shoot fish in a barrel. When we limit the pool of suspects, the barrel gets smaller, the fishes might get louder. You might aswell say, we don't know anything except for me defending people who i believe are townies, which is incomplete, I have already pushed my case against Eishi_Ki but will obviously have to focus on other cases since I won't find a majority for that one in day 1. I create my stances in all possible ways on restricted cases, that's how a townie should play. Mafia creates stances maybe even defending townies when it's possible for them to blend in while doing so (notice how I am actually the first guy supporting sciberbia?). It also causes A LOT of repercussions for me, as opposed to your generalized argument. Also, when mafia gives advice, they will try to not adress problems in the thread, but try to give more generic advice everyone probably knows already. That also helps them blend in without creating vulnerable points for later. With all that said, heist, you're either badly informed about the game or scum. Pick one. Also, start voting for a lynch if you think I'm mafia. Town won't like you for being opportunistic and go for votes you didn't push by yourself, that allows for jumping on the most convenient bandwagon. Townies not being sure of each other Day 1 is natural. There is almost no information to go. You, on the other hand, are almost completely convinced of Sciberbia's alignment almost from the first minute of this game. Again, this lynch is not a matter of probability. Our goal isn't to eliminate suspects by placing them in pro-town status and "shooting blindly" into the rest. Our goal is to actively find suspicious, scummy people. I think this is crucial. Do not try to find townies, try to find mafia. Townies not being sure of each is much better than blindly following one player, being so seduced that you will automatically disregard everyone who attempts to argue with you or that person. I too am making and have been making my stance. And by now, I'm hoping you can see that spending Day 1 just defending one person is not helping town at all come lynch time. Even if you are right, eliminating the possibilties from 11 to 10 (excluding ourselves), this just isn't very useful. And before you keep going on and on about how my posts are generalized, that was isolated to my first post, which if you look at was not limited solely to generalized tips but also my take on the policy brought up by Sciberbia and my mention of you. Finally, I don't need to vote yet. Day 1 is literally only half done. We have about 23 hours to further clarfiy the situation. As you've notced your single vote on Eishi isn't doing much. So yes, I'll reserve my vote. But I'll tell you exactly how I'm going to vote. Depending on how Superouman and Unforgiven post, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this early on. But should they come back and start wowing me with subsequent posts and start establishing a better town atmosphere, you will be getting my vote. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 01 2012 05:38 Superouman wrote: Since it's getting late in europe and not much time remaining, i'll vote now ##Vote sciberbia Is no one going to force Superouman to be liable for his really random, thoughtless vote on Sciberbia? He must be ecstatic to see almost the entire town become focused on the our other resident lurker. He has an early vote and I'm concerned that he's purposefully saying away precisely because everything is going his way. On May 31 2012 23:29 Superouman wrote: For the first day, i think we should lynch one of the lurkers. They maybe think if they do nothing, they will pass under the radar. Or if they are townies, well... they should just have said something to be less suspect My reasons exactly. Solstice you're right. Lurkers don't have content to analyze. There is no point in waxing on. I think Superouman is a better candidate than Ange77, who frankly has gotten a lot of votes in a short amount of time right at the deadline. Vote##: superouman | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
I just went through sciberbias, Eishi_Ki's and Miltonkrams' post. I'll first tell you who I'm going to vote for now: Ange777. He hasn't been contributing anything whatsoever, and while I think that sciberbias posting on suki was quite good, so was his defense. Right now there are a lot of votes for a lot of different people. The weirdest one coming from superouman, no explanation whatsoever. If there's a majority the town can get without fear of hitting blue, it's Ange777. It's a day 1 with lots of information from almost everybody with exception of him, and I can say for sure that this day 1 has been a fingerpointing match like it shouldn't have been for a good town. Let's at least try to finish it with something we have an agreement on: Like most of us stated, the lurkers should get lynched first unless we already have strong scumreads. And if this guy is mafia, he doesn't have to contribute anything as of now to remain unharmed. Vivax, you still have my suspicions but I promised you the benefit of the doubt for a more promising candidate. Every thing you've said can also be said about Superouman. You even call out Superouman's weird vote. I ask you, why Ange77 over Superouman? | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
##Vote: Superouman | ||
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United States720 Posts
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United States720 Posts
Quite frankly at this point, after reading your defense, it basically comes down to a question of deliberate lurking=mafia vs lack of time commitment. And that's just going to devolve into a pointless "I said, you said" game. We have many hours remaining. Give us your best analysis of the town so far. I want your reads. I want you to put yourself out there if you have to. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 04:29 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Danm...i thought this language thing would not be a problem, i see im mistaken... I see my first post still is a problem for some players, i will try to summarize my response (for the last time) taking this post... Show nested quote + he states that you shouldn't use past games as a guide, yet he references two past games in the same post. He states that blue people shouldn't roleclaim, and yet they should roleclaim (as a last resort!). He states that mafia is more active during the last hours of the day, yet he slips in that he'll save his vote for the last hours as well, as if by stating it early he alleviates all suspicions on his actions later on. He's really against bandwagons, yet he asks for a town leader for people to follow. when i say "dont use past game as a guide" i mean personally, dont look for the other games some especific player has played (¿sp?), they can change their way of playing very easily. I just had played 1 game, blue roleclaiming at the end of the game is pretty obvious for me. I said i will save my vote for the last triying to show the town how is my style" of play, like i said, watching all the post, getting information, etc...but i see maybe i was wrong, one should adapt to the way the TOWN plays. When i say town leader i ment someone who are good at making indepth anaysis and posts, who could get people thinking, who can sumarize 10 pages in one post... i think i did not made it very clear, but for a mafia this would be VERY hard to do, thats what i ment when i said "structure" just one or a couple of good players, not someone we will blindly follow...i forgot im in a newbie game ;D. Now to all the new information... __________________________________________________________________________ This extended mayority lynch will fuck us pretty bad, mafia are theonly ones benefiting from this i think... This new case (and votes) against Ange777... i did told you mafia would come at last hours for some activity uh? She's is now on my list, but suki remains number one, specially after this Show nested quote + On June 02 2012 01:45 suki wrote: I feel that lynching unforgiven at this point would give us a sure mafia lynch, but from the tone of the thread it doesn't seem like it will pass. I'll put off this discussion until day two. Ange777 already has four votes on him, and by lynching him we rid ourselves of a lurker. To guarantee a Day 1 lynch I will vote for Ange777. ##Unvote Unforgiven_ve ##Vote Ange777 Same random blind vote agains a case someone's else started. s0Lstice: + Show Spoiler + On June 02 2012 02:37 s0Lstice wrote: Xatalos asked me how I felt about Unforgiven in light of his defense. I'm leaving my FoS where it is. When he finally had a little time to scum hunt, he pointed the finger at suki. It was a novel idea at the time, but to me it lacked effort. Look at sciberbia's post compared to his. Now, not all accusations have to have a big word count to be effective, but his effort just looks lazy. Does the reasoning he laid out really warrant a vote? Not to me. He says Suki never pressured anyone, which is ironic because a big part of sciberbia's case is that he bandwagon pressured a lot of people. Whether he was first on the scene or not, he has pressured milton, unforgiven, vivix, and superouman. Saying he hasn't pressured anyone is just false. His case is just 4 short points. The first I just discussed. Past that, his other points are a short filter, safe day 1 play, and some nonsense about taunting cattivik to butter him up for a day 2 vote. It's just not a lot to go on. Keep that in mind. In his defense posts, he says we should discuss everything and nothing at the same time. Don't throw FoS around, or votes. Don't use meta arguments. What is his idea of hunting scum? Those two things are very important tools for applying pressure. He says we need structure, but never says what that is outside from some leader emerging to tell us what to do. His message remains totally unclear. Wait, be smart about scumhunting, and let people talk...but don't use half the tools in your arsenal to get them to talk. He doesn't follow his own rules. He posts a 'meh' case on Suki and then votes right away. If he was following his own rules, I'd think he'd at least wait for a defense before throwing his vote around. Bottom line is I like that he has started to make some effort to hunt scum, and I realize that he has had to spend a lot of time defending himself, but there are still so many inconsistencies in his play that my FoS stays put. I will keep watching. On refresh I see there's a lot of other stuff going on right now so I'd better hurry up and post! Some tother time would say you are not good at reading and throw a light insult ;D but at this point of the game i (think?) know is me not knowing how to make a proper post. Im not good at writing long posts thats why i try to resume and point to the precise stuff i find scummy. Suki voted for Ange77 to enforce a day 1 lynch especially since YOU had only a single vote. For me, suki is still number 1, if Ange777 flips red this will just convice me even more, i bet they are wishing for a NL. I will change my vote before deadline if neccesary, i still have a couple hour to burn. As always, if anyone has any question please ask You are literally going after everyone who has found you suspicious. And these are all pretty weak claims. You start going off on Ange77 for "siding with you too strongly"? I think you are taking bandwaggoning a bit too far. She had her own analysis. You somehow tie together both suki and ange77 as mafia scum? What??? You explicitly state that you are going to disregard Solstice and don't bother to defend yourself. I am not completely convinced about Suki and the main accusation right now seems to refer to the switch vote to Ange77. We decided we wanted a day 1 lynch. We needed a majority. Perhaps he wanted to lay down his vote incase he missed the deadline. Bandwaggoning I find is useless accusation in and of itself. In a complete body of work it can greatly support a claim. But we need this majority for a lynch and I can completely see him changing his vote with Unforgiven's case rapidly losing steam. My vote is currently useless. I will be changing to Unforgiven_ve. His recent behavior is really undermining my previous judgment. ##Unvote ##Vote: Unforgiven_ve | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 05:45 Unforgiven_ve wrote: + Show Spoiler + You start going off on Ange77 for "siding with you too strongly"? I think you are taking bandwaggoning a bit too far. She had her own analysis. My exacts words were "I forgot to put this in my last post, i also, dont like how Ange sided by me so strongly. That REALLY raised my eyebrown when i read it." My one and onyl target has been suki, saying that thing about IF Ange777 turns red was just a random thought, a possibility we cannot discard, dont you think? And i dont understand what are you saying here, please post what i said or ask me/show me if i wrote something weird to your eyes Show nested quote + You explicitly state that you are going to disregard Solstice and don't bother to defend yourself. You are implying that red Ange77 or a red Suki implies a connection. What connection? That if one is red, it's likely the other is as well? I don't understand what you are saying. About Solstice, this is your exact quote Some tother time would say you are not good at reading and throw a light insult ;D but at this point of the game i (think?) know is me not knowing how to make a proper post. Im not good at writing long posts thats why i try to resume and point to the precise stuff i find scummy. Suki voted for Ange77 to enforce a day 1 lynch especially since YOU had only a single vote. I'll try to paraphrase your words: "I don't have time to insult you right now but if I did, I would say you aren't good at reading (an insult in itself). I'm not very good at writing so I try to keep it short and simple." You don't address him at all. Just make excuses. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 05:26 Vivax wrote: Show nested quote + On June 02 2012 05:02 Ange777 wrote: And Suki IS bandwagoning. He was the 5th player to vote for me, I can't see how this counts as "the first". You are right, I've mistaken miltons' post for sukis. Still doesn't change my opinion after reading his filter. Going for the lynch as opposed to a NL will always look like a bandwagon. In fact, when there aren't any decisive reads, there has to be a bandwagon. But better that than more confusion. I've also said heist shouldn't try to disrupt the voting process against you, should it be one vote away from a majority, cause then we will end up without information. That doesn't mean I will accuse him for bandwagoning just cause he's the last to vote. There are no proper scumreads in his posts, one of the most early scumreads is inactivity, by which you shined. I've already compared the times of your posts in the other games with those in this one, and you didn't feel pressured to post in this one when you did in the other. You've either set your priorities in a way that it will make you look suspicious, or you are scum. Then this case on suki, it's just perfect for you, the contribution you are giving us concerns mostly him, and you also vote for him. Since there is already a fair amount of people suspecting him, it's just natural you're gonna try to spin momentum away from your towards his case. Also, you post a lot of small posts effectively diluting the thread. Look, I'm suspicious to a bunch of people already, I am pushing the accusation against you. Then why do you just pick sukis' case cause it's the case where you could obtain a majority and not get lynched? Cause it's gonna be too hard for you to push a case on me, heist and Golden tried, now they're silent when it won't work. Who defended you?Heist. Guess what, his first line regarding you was: 'Let us hear something from you. No pressure.' He's going pretty soft on you despite being a lurker. You are really going all out in an attempt to distort me. My only real contact with Ange77 is telling her to stop lurking and asking her to start contributing. How could I possibly go hard on her if she's only been lurking. There's nothing to analyze. My first line, if you remember, was only halfway through day 1 and there's no real need to be screaming at people to be active. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
I find the following suspicious: vivax, unforgiven_ve, superouman. I am comfortable with lynching any of them. Ange77 and Suki both read town to me, although if they are the majority, I am siding toward a Suki lynch. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 06:05 Unforgiven_ve wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'm not very good at writing so I try to keep it short and simple. pretty much you said it. Thats my response, my accusation to suki was 4 points long and i tried to make it clear, if thats not enough for him, then what more can i say? -------------------------------- change of plans, i have to go, i will say it again. VOTE FOR SUKI PLEASE! He's challenging your 4 points. But your response to the criticism is oh well... best i can do. If that's not a weak stance, I don't know what is. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 06:14 Vivax wrote: This is a blatantly ridiculous thing to do, yet it looks like I won't be able to push the case against Ange777. To me, it looks like people go extra soft on her to whiteknight. You better pray suki is not gonna flip town, which i believe he will. ##unvote Ange777 ##vote suki Ready to vote for Ange777 again once there is the prospect of a majority. Also, remember that unforgiven_ve was the first to push the case against suki. That will reveal a lot about his alignment too. OH, and Ange777 is actually following that case while suspecting unforgiven at the same time. Why exactly would you suspect someone of being mafia if he was the first pushing the case against someone you believe is mafia? Looks like we have a scumtell. The damn deadline is getting close. If it's blatantly rediculous, DO NOT DO IT. You are almost confident suki is town, why are you placing your vote on him??? We still have a bit of time, closer to an hour. Now it just looks like you are bussing. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 06:19 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Xatalos, please think this. Im risking my neck here! im goin all-in for suki, that would be a ridiculous way of play for a mafia dont you think? Its something pretty obvious, at least for me, im convinced he is mafia and when his alignment is revealed + the mafia kill at night, we will have a shitload of information, dont you think? Are you following what's been happening and the rapid bandwagon on Suki? Sticking your neck out by siding with the majority? I'm gonna call you out. And I hope you keep talking. It's just making me more convinced. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 06:34 s0Lstice wrote: This is chaos. We are badly split up right now. The only chance we have at a majority now as I see it is Suki. Ange777 made some good points about him, but then flung shit at everybody who continued to question her. I asked for analysis, there was enough time and plenty of content in the past to comment on. Instead you made a snap judgement on unforgiven and then basically insta tunneled him. I hate how this day is ending. Heist, if Suki flips scum, you're in deep. You came in late and changed your vote to another pointless vote, splitting us further. I'm in an awkward position because I've suspected both Suki and Unforgiven. Vivax makes a good point about suspecting both being logically unsound. With that said, I'm not feeling too great about Suki being lynched, as my read on unforgiven is stronger. I just don't see the Unforgiven lynch happening today. It has to be Suki, here and now, or nobody. ## unvote ## Vote: Suki I changed bacause I was not very condifent in either a Suki or Ange77 lynch and my Superouman lynch was useless. You agree that Unforgiven seems more scummy. I don't like how you are giving up to commit to a worse read. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 06:37 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Lol ange, now you understand when I said if you flip maafia blah blah??? Heist, you not helping your cause, you did not showed me my MANY ATTACKS against the people You said were attacking me...and if you really read the thread, you can see I was the FIRST one voting for suki, 24 hours Ago, so, explain to me please, siding whit who? You purposefully call yourself so brave because you are sticking with Suki. Attention, he has the majority. You are sticking with the majority. Don't attempt buoy yourself up because you were the "first". | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
##Vote: Suki | ||
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United States720 Posts
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United States720 Posts
Seriously though, if I was mafia, why would I not take the easy route and side with the Ange77 bandwagon initally? | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 03 2012 07:19 Vivax wrote: And guess who his case was: heist. -_- You don't say.... I'll have a defense of his accusation no matter that he's dead. Ugh. GG. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 02 2012 12:32 s0Lstice wrote: Concerning Heist, I want to get this case out there on the off chance that I am the N1 kill. Lets have a look at what he has been doing to hunt scum: + Show Spoiler + For most of day 1, he has had one target, and that is Vivix. His first accusation against him contained the following points: a perceived contradiction, and his views/defense of sciberbia. This is the contradiction. Vivix says he sees the reason behind sciberbia's no-lynch argument, but still prefers to lynch. Seeing the logic and worthyness of considering of an idea, but still coming down on the other side of it is not a contradiction, provided you supply the reasons for doing so. Vivix does; he says he still wants to lynch to get rid of lurkers right off the bat or act on a strong scum read, and get lynch information earlier rather than later. His views and defense on sciberbia have been covered a lot, so I'll just say one thing about this. Vivix has been steadfast in his convictions consistently. At the time, the sample size was small and no pattern had developed yet, so the suspicion is warranted. As the game goes on however, nobody should be surprised that Vivix was so sure on his first town read. He is consistently steadfast in all of his opinions. Moving on. He posts some filler before addressing Vivix again. The filler is basically asking Eishi_Ki to clarify his thoughts on Vivix, asks Vivix to post more, and pressures the lurkers. Nothing really scummy here, he is just doing due diligence on his case. His second address to Vivix has one repeated point and one new one: Vivix' sure read on sciberbia, and his hasty vote on Eishi_Ki. His read on sciberbia I've talked about already...his vote on Eishi_Ki represented his first scum hunting target. He went after him full force and voted. Again, these are consistent with Vivix' aggressive play. He defends a town read aggressively, and pursues a scum read aggressively. Next he addresses someone new, and its Unforgiven. He chimes in with his thoughts, which is fine. It's the current subject matter. He uses a lot of words to say that he agrees on the suspicions, but will reserve judgement. It's a very safe stance. He follows this up with further safe pressure on the lurkers. His third address to Vivix. He again uses a lot of words to say basically: I don't agree that your high activity and extremeness makes you absolutely town, and you may be doing it to obscure the scummy things you do. This is trumped up WIFOM + Show Spoiler + Vivix as scum thinks, I'll be careful but still contribute. But wait! That is what they are expecting! I'll be aggressive to throw them off my trail. But wait, maybe they are expecting me to expect that so I'll be more careful. But wait! etc etc His fourth address to Vivix. He harps again on Vivix' opinion of sciberbia. He keeps driving this point, and damns him for finding a townie and not hunting scum. Except....Vivix has been hunting his top scum read: Eishi_Ki. This just makes no sense. Vivix scum hunt was aggressive and obvious. There is no excuse for ignoring it in this context. You know who else kept harping on Vivix' opinion of sciberbia? Suki Something else Suki did was to drop his main suspicion in favor of another target. Heist does this too, stating that he is giving Vivix the benefit of the doubt, and then votes for a lurker. Not the lurker that has had the most buzz going for a policy lynch, but Superouman. Essentially a wasted vote. In summary: -Pursues case on Vivix on the basis of three weak point -his fast read and defense of sciberbia -WIFOM on how his aggression is a scum ruse -spending time confirming townies and not hunting scum, even though he is -Only other scum hunting is lurker pressure, and 'wait and see' on Unforgiven -Drops his main read on the basis of 'giving the benefit of the doubt' -votes for a lurker that had no policy lynch buzz as of yet Events surrounding the lynch: + Show Spoiler + I'll start here, when the votes counted thusly: + Show Spoiler + Day 1 Votecount Sciberbia (1): Miltonkram, Superouman Eishi_Ki: Vivax Unforgiven_ve: Xatalos, Suki Suki (2): Unforgiven_ve, Sciberbia Ange777 (5): Miltonkram, Vivax, Xatalos, Eshi_Ki, suki Superouman (1): Heist This is shortly after Ange shows up. She takes the time to defend herself some and promises a scum read soon. While she is away doing that, sciberbia makes a post trying to organize everyone onto one person, and the votes on Ange go to 6 when I vote. Ange comes back and posts her read on Suki. It is solid, compelling, and, as we know now, dead on. She votes Suki right away, giving him 3 votes. Xatalos responds that he likes her contribution, and sciberbia comes back trying to illustrate how lynching suki is the best option for us as a group based on our stated convictions. Unforgiven chimes in to reinforce his Suki vote. I mention as well that her case is pretty good, and combined with all else, would draw my vote if he was our choice. The atmosphere at was pretty anti-Suki, and only getting worse. With Ange posting a very solid scum read, and a couple people suggesting she should live. If this goes further, Suki would definitely replace Ange as the consensus choice. Now Ange pursues Unforgiven, and pretty hard too, dropping a quick FoS. Xatalos follows up with his earlier suspicions and votes for him. This is a shake and bake counter movement to the building case on Suki. While this is going on, Suki draws another vote from Milton. That makes 4. This is when Heist enters, when Suki is in a lot of danger, and there is a counter-movement swelling. He jumps all over Unforgiven. He went from non-commital on Unforgiven to all out war without any in-between, right at the time when the case was countering Suki's. He flat out yells at Vivix to not vote for Suki. He removes his vote on Superouman citing it as useless, only to place it on another useless case that had the third most votes. The only conceivable use it has is to stop the lynch of Suki. With 12 minutes left, he switches to Suki once it is clear that he is the consensus choice. This gave us majority on Suki, but Xatalos had already agreed that he would vote to ensure a lynch vs a no-lynch if it came to it, so it was going to happen anyway. What it also does is give him some deniability when Suki flipped scum. Not a lot, but some. In summary: -swoops in when the pressure on Suki is getting bad -pursues a useless counter-case vigorously against a player who he has been ambivalent about -switches his useless vote from one place to another useless place -was one of the very last to come in to vote for suki I think he has tied himself pretty strongly to Suki. What do others think about this? PART 1 "Let's have a look at what he has been doing to hunt scum..." This part of your argument deals with my accusations on Vivax. If this somehow reflected on my scumminess why didn't you speak up before the events around the lynch, accusing me? Because it doesn't. You simply didn't agree with me. You dedicate quite a bit of your post defending Vivax, but I'll reiterate your take on my points and then show my thought process. My main point, as you call out, is Vivax's dedicated defense and conviction toward Vivax, which I found highly suspicious and you disregard as a townie being consistently aggressive. You even applaud his consistent aggressiveness as a fundamentally town. However, there is quite a big distinction in aggressiveness defending someone and aggressively following scum reads. Vivax is the former. Finding and trying to insist confirmed townies does NOTHING for the town come lynch time. That is the crux of my argument. He spends day 1 aggressively defending someone who he can't possibly know for sure is town, and provides very little actual substance for a lynch. His one "aggressive" scumread is on Eishi, a poorly argued accusation in which his main point is that it's suspicious that Eishi can't be here near deadline since he lives in Korea. This is hardly compelling evidence. His aggressive behavior that you cite as such a townie behavior. Ask yourselves what has he actually done for the town after all this "aggression"? The WIFOM is directed right to this quote by Vivax I'm one of the most, if not the most active poster in this game so far. Assuming that I survive this day or night while being mafia, my posts make me so transparent that I wouldn't survive day 2 for certain. In that case, I would have played mafia like an idiot. Also cause I'm exposing myself quite extremely. I've already talk about this quote before. If this isn't suspicious, then I don't know what is. I have not been spending time "not hunting scum, and confirming townies" as you put it. My main activities day 1 was actively pursuing Vivax. And just because I disagree with someone else's accusations does NOT mean I have confirmed the accused. I'm simply waiting for more information, i.e Unforgiven and Ange77. My drop on Vivax was because there was simply no momentum that would allow a lynch. I honestly feel like everyone had the one set opinion of him (oh he's so aggressive and consistent, he must be town) that they refused to read anything else in a different light. Frustrating but I agreed to drop it in order to actually have a lynch. Concerning my vote on Superouman, which you call wasted because he had "no policy buzz as of yet". Yes precisely this. Why didn't he? Why was he so much less suspicious in so many people's eyes than Ange77? Various people had superouman on their suspicions list for essentially the same reason as Ange77. Lurking. Why then was there such massive and quick Ange77 bandwagon with almost no mention of Superouman. It was suspicious to me and next I would argue that you can't waste a vote when there are still hours and hours before the lynch. I was hoping to take the bandwagon off of Ange77, which erupted almost out of nowhere without even waiting for her to respond and place my vote onto the scummier lurker in my eyes. PART 2 "Events surrounding the lynch" Your main argument is that I purposefully entered an anti-Suki atmosphere to shift the votes away from him. In fact, I was present throughout the entire time that the Ange77 bandwagon erupted. If I was mafia, I could have sealed the mislynch with my vote. Suki was the next highest candidate and he would have survived. Why didn't I? I was reserving my opinion till after she was allowed a chance to contribute and respond to her defense? I have been doing this all day 1. If I don't have a strong opinion I'll give the accused a chance to defend and contribute: I've done it with Unforgiven, ange77, Superouman. Who was the only one who never showed up, never bothered to help town? Superouman. This was my reasoning for my vote and that was who I gave my vote to. Ange77 survives and finally posts her analysis, giving her a much more town impression in almost everyone's eyes. You then state that the atmosphere turned distinctly anti-Suki. The only reason you construe the atmosphere as anti-Suki is because literally almost all the active people on at the time were the original votes behind Suki: Sciberbia, Unforgiven_ve, and Ange77 (check pg. 13) while Vivax and Xatalos still remaining unconvinced. At this point, the voting total is Ange77 with 6 votes and Suki with 3. Milton then turns against Suki to make it 4, as you said. At this point I come in. And according to you, it's only because of the atmosphere because you are solely reading my actions trying to construe everything as mafia. You fail to mention what was occurring simultaneously: Unforgiven_ve and his set of really bizarre posts against Ange77. The growing momentum against Suki is a direct result of Ange77 becoming more active and trying to clear herself as town, which is what I've been promoting the entire time. Unforgiven_ve is the reason I changed my vote. I really suggest you go through his filter and can explain his behavior. It felt off to more than just me: Even you express discomfort at his behavior but ultimately side with a Suki lynch to create a lynch, same as I. You on the other hand don't even attempt to convince us of your "stronger" read. On June 02 2012 06:34 s0Lstice wrote: This is chaos. We are badly split up right now. The only chance we have at a majority now as I see it is Suki. Ange777 made some good points about him, but then flung shit at everybody who continued to question her. I asked for analysis, there was enough time and plenty of content in the past to comment on. Instead you made a snap judgement on unforgiven and then basically insta tunneled him. I hate how this day is ending. Heist, if Suki flips scum, you're in deep. You came in late and changed your vote to another pointless vote, splitting us further. I'm in an awkward position because I've suspected both Suki and Unforgiven. Vivax makes a good point about suspecting both being logically unsound. With that said, I'm not feeling too great about Suki being lynched, as my read on unforgiven is stronger. I just don't see the Unforgiven lynch happening today. It has to be Suki, here and now, or nobody. ## unvote ## Vote: Suki Your last few points: I've already given reasoning why a Unforgiven vote was not useless (check my filter after my final vote). And of course I was last, I wasn't convinced but a NL was worse. What else could happen? Lastly, there was no guarantee that Suki would have been lynched had I not done so. Xatalos's vote and his assurance to create a lynch comes AFTER I've placed my vote, which was already last minute (look at the timing). | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 03 2012 16:03 sciberbia wrote: This will be my post about heist I'd honestly be really surprised if heist isn't mafia. Read s0lstice's case on him - it's pretty good. I've read through heist's filter and found a lot of stuff that seems scummy to me. I'm just going to highlight some previous points I find particulary damning as well as add a couple of pieces of evidence. 1. Circumstancial evidence surrounding suki's first post + Show Spoiler + Recall this part of my accusation of suki + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 11:18 sciberbia wrote: Finally, I can think of one really good explanation as to why he realized his mistake: He might have gone back to the mafia QT where his scumbuddies set him straight. Just a theory. But I'd like to hear suki explain how he realized that he had misinterpreted the rules. suki never did explain this post, made 9 minutes after his original: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 12:43 suki wrote: Oh wait, this is kind of important to my reasoning. Are you allowed to change your vote after you make it? I dont see any explicit answer in the rules. I assume you can't since we're not able to edit our posts, but just to make sure... Well, suki turned out to be mafia, which makes my mafia QT theory seem a little less wild. What does this have to do with heist? His response, 4 minutes later: On May 31 2012 12:47 heist wrote: You CAN change your vote. You aren't allowed to edit posts, but you can change your vote in new ones. So, not only do we know heist was online, but he even corrected suki in the thread. I feel like my mafia QT theory was pretty spot on. In case it's not clear, here is what I'm saying probably happened: + Show Spoiler + suki: hi guys. im roleblocker. sorry im late heist: suki you should make a post b4 you get accused of lurking *suki makes post* This takes 9 minutes: suki: okay I just made a pretty big first post *heist skims it* heist: why do you make such a big deal out of that vote? suki: what do you mean? heist: you realize he'll probably just unvote right? suki: oh shit. you can unvote? heist: yea. It's ok: you're just noob. nobody will care. suki: well should i correct myself? heist: Just ask if you can unvote. Then I'll answer it. This takes 4 minutes: suki: k. just did heist: ok I answered it. Nobody will ever suspect anything. Perhaps not conclusive by itself. But I'm pretty sure this is what happened given heist's later scummy behavior. See below. 2.Heist's comments on suki + Show Spoiler + Pay attention to the timestamps On June 02 2012 05:37 heist wrote: I am not completely convinced about Suki... On June 02 2012 06:05 heist wrote: Ange77 and Suki both read town to me, although if they are the majority, I am siding toward a Suki lynch. On June 02 2012 06:17 heist wrote: If it's blatantly rediculous, DO NOT DO IT. You are almost confident suki is town, why are you placing your vote on him??? We still have a bit of time, closer to an hour. Now it just looks like you are bussing. On June 02 2012 06:37 heist wrote: I changed bacause I was not very condifent in either a Suki or Ange77 lynch and my Superouman lynch was useless. You agree that Unforgiven seems more scummy. I don't like how you are giving up to commit to a worse read. On June 02 2012 06:43 heist wrote: BTW, a NL is possibly the worst thing that can happen right now. I promised I would change my vote, and I''ll do so if it comes down to it because I'm almost convinced Ange77 is town, much more so than Suki who has been absent. On June 02 2012 06:55 heist wrote: I don't in good conscience vote for people I don't think is mafia unless absoultely necessary like right now. In summary - he is first "not completely convinced" - now suki reads town to him - now it looks like vivax is bussing suki - now he's not very confident in a suki lynch - he's much more convinced ange is town than suki - he didn't think suki is mafia the "not completely convinced" and the bussing comments scream scum to me. Cattivik called Heist out on the bussing comment early in N1 and heist failed to address it in his defense. Xatalos also finds this scummy. 3.suki's comments on heist + Show Spoiler + nothing whatsoever 4. heist's latest slip + Show Spoiler + I just picked up on this slip that I might not otherwise think much of. But on top of the already mounting evidence, it just makes too much sense. On June 03 2012 09:53 heist wrote: That is the crux of my argument. He (Vivax) spends day 1 aggressively defending someone who he can't possibly know for sure is town, and provides very little actual substance for a lynch. Heist has "thought" Cattivik is mafia the whole game. The "crux" of heist's argument is that cattivik spends day 1 aggressively defending someone "who he can't possibly know for sure is town". If Heist actually thinks Cattivik is mafia, then in Heist's brain, Cattivik does know who is townie and who isn't. If on the other hand, Heist knows for a fact that Cattivik is town, Heist knows that Cattivik doesn't actually know for a fact that I'm townie. I'm pretty sure that heist has been attacking cattivik for confusing townie play the entire time. Heist knows it's easy to attack a townie for confusing townie play - it happens all the time. So, in heist's brain, he is trying to convince everyone that Cattivik is bad townie. But here he slips in revealing that he doesn't actually think cattivik is mafia - just bad townie. Not sure I explained this very well but I think it makes sense. Basically, I have a town-read on Cattivik and a scumread on Heist, and this little slip reinforces that notion. I'm actually interested to hear if anyone agrees with this analysis. Does anyone actually think heist is townie? I am aware that ShiaoPi has a town-read on him, but does anyone else? And ShiaoPi, would you please detail why you think he is townie? ##Vote heist It's looking more and more like I'm going to be spending day 2 defending myself with no one acknowledging anything I've written. Let's go through this shall we? I've numbered your points: 1. Suki doesn't realize you can change your vote. I correct his mistake. And that's your first point? Are you serious? Did you really just make up an entire conversation out of nowhere. Why would I reply to him in thread if I "corrected him in mafia QT" as you claim I did? If Suki doesn't respond, that's not my problem. I don't control what he's doing. Pure pure speculation. 2. When I said I'm not completely convinced about Suki, you completely misinterpreted it. I was referring to the fact I was not convinced to the accusation against him MEANING that my opinion of him was town, not mafia. So yes, Suki reads town (me staying consistent). I was never, never convinced in the Suki lynch. The dilemma for me was that both Ange77 and Suki seemed town to me. Why did I ultimately side with Ange77? because after her recent set of posts, she was leaving me a pretty big impression of town while Suki was absent the entire lynch. I looked back at the Cattivik's bussing comment. I was referring to the fact that I think Cattivik is mafia (and I have been for pretty much all D1) and that's why I used the word "bussing". 3. Great. Suki didn't comment on me. What do you want me to say? This is completely outside of my control. I can't really say anything about this and you know it. Non point. 4. I don't think I'm completely comprehending what you are trying to say here. Too many what ifs. How are you construing my argument so that I believe Vivax is a bad townie? I DO think Vivax is mafia and I've been trying to make my case all game. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
Heist Heist is the opposite of Miltonkram. His early posts look pretty decent (unlike Miltonkram), but he starts to raise my suspicions later on in his filter (while my suspicions of Miltonkram lessened later in his filter). The one I found the most suspicious is this post: On June 02 2012 06:17 heist wrote: Show nested quote + If it's blatantly rediculous, DO NOT DO IT. You are almost confident suki is town, why are you placing your vote on him??? We still have a bit of time, closer to an hour. Now it just looks like you are bussing. The feeling I get from this post is that he's in panic and trying to figure out something to save his teammate. He uses capslock, multiple question marks, and worst of all, makes a potential slip by saying "now it just looks like you are bussing". If we consider the option of Suki being town (as they both imply), how can Vivax possibly be bussing him? What if Heist already knows that Suki is Mafia and makes such a weird statement just because of that? Later Heist concedes and votes for Suki to attain the majority, which could be Mafia trying to buy credibility or town trying to genuinely ensure the lynch. This isn't a suspicious move (the opposite, actually) but his posts up to this point are pretty much desperate attempts to save Suki. This emotion and hastiness also seems pretty out of character considering his calm posting earlier. I'm going with Heist for today, and I'm still not convinced about Vivax being the correct lynch. If needed to attain the majority, I'd have to consolidate on Vivax, but there's still so much time left I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. ##Vote Heist I'm going to sleep now (finally, it's REALLY late here). I hope to see some good responses when I come back, especially from the people I took the most effort to write about (Vivax, Miltonkram, Heist). Vivax, I hope you'll take it as your goal for today to regain our trust by sharing your reads (especially your original and in-depth reads) about the players and discussion topics so far. Miltonkram and Heist, you'll need some pretty amazing Mafia hunting to convince me you're town... Look at my very first post. I use caps lock pretty frequently when I want emphasis. If you can actually pinpoint any emotion as you call it to something less circumstantial than caps lock, please point it out. I was just merely active during last phase of the lynch. The bussing comment is referring to my opinion of Vivax, whom I believe is mafia. I don't know if you've bothered to read Vivax's comment, but his vote comes close to an hour before the lynch, which is a lot of time before anything is final. I wanted to gain some momentum for Unforgiven_ve but nope. He starts off by putting distance between himself and his vote, arguing all game that Suki is certain town. But then he goes against his surest town read and votes for her anyway. This is classic bussing as mafia and I'm dealing strictly with Vivax's behavior. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
His continued odd statement like these: If there's a majority the town can get without fear of hitting blue, it's Ange777. that leave me scratching my head. It feels like he was trying to rush along an Ange77 bandwagon lynch based purely on the fact she was lurking. And when she stops and starts contributing more? And frankly, even if Ange777 would turn out to be town, all this last hour confusion is thanks to her and the decision to play games when she can't be properly active in them. You don't join a game of starcraft to go afk while you play chess either, then to come back asking others for help when the enemy is in your base, blaming one of the guys who was playing actively. If you are town, you should be really aware of the bad impact you are having on this game. I would frankly still lynch you just for that. And now activity is construed as a scumread. It's conflicting and already shows him putting distance on his Ange77 bandwagon that did not fall through. You have had only weak reads and joined both bandwagons to create a lynch. You continue to deflect accusations in a poor manner and you will have my vote. I think it's really misguided to focus on my posts when there is much more reliable information to get from sukis' posts, you look for mafiavibes from me when there are behaviors of a confirmed mafia towards other players at your disposal. ##Vote: Vivax | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
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heist
United States720 Posts
OK I can expect the backlash. But I think problem here is everyone is just trying to attribute the most scummy motivations to every action that I've been doing and ignoring everything that can't possibly construed as scum. Same to ShiaoPi, literally just for association with me. @Miltonkran: I don't think we should be policy lurker lynching anyone today. Today's lynch is way too crucial to have a mislynch on Eishi whose suspicions rest mainly on lurking, which at this point is a nulltell. And there's no way I'm voting for myself. (I don't understand you Vivax). It may be my point of view, but I think it's safe to say that mafia will be trying their hardest to get me lynched today. And from that point of view, my main suspicions are still going to rest on Unforgiven_ve. His unfounded accusations against Ange77 linking her and Suki, his quick bandwagon after ONE single off-hand comment from Solstice. Do you guys realize where all the accusations against me started? From this comment by Solstice: On June 02 2012 06:34 s0Lstice wrote: This is chaos. We are badly split up right now. The only chance we have at a majority now as I see it is Suki. Ange777 made some good points about him, but then flung shit at everybody who continued to question her. I asked for analysis, there was enough time and plenty of content in the past to comment on. Instead you made a snap judgement on unforgiven and then basically insta tunneled him. I hate how this day is ending. Heist, if Suki flips scum, you're in deep. You came in late and changed your vote to another pointless vote, splitting us further. I'm in an awkward position because I've suspected both Suki and Unforgiven. Vivax makes a good point about suspecting both being logically unsound. With that said, I'm not feeling too great about Suki being lynched, as my read on unforgiven is stronger. I just don't see the Unforgiven lynch happening today. It has to be Suki, here and now, or nobody. ## unvote ## Vote: Suki Solstice later backed up his accusation in his night post, but Unforgiven_ve, you basically hitch a ride on this bandwagon really quickly and without good reasoning of your own. You have continued to do no real analysis of me and instead state your reasoning as "it's obvious" and the rest just goading everyone else to mindlessly follow your example. ##Vote: Unforgiven_ve The remaining scum is either Miltonkram or Xatalos. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 05 2012 06:45 Unforgiven_ve wrote: It's too late for me to try and convince you guys to change your votes, i think vivax will flip town, his last post voting for himself doesnt help tho. Guys, because i think im right about heist, maybe i will die this night, the only thing in my favor is being a terrible poster (they killed s0Lstice for being good=, maybe they want me to be alive to get more people confused. You are understimating the proof against heist, i still think there's a ver high change that heist and xatalos are mafia, i see they are playing a pretty standard "active" mafia, dodging attacks and siding whit the mayority (not before making his "preference" obvious to the town) triying to gaing some town credit. Right now i would kill heist, the way he started to play the game and how he acted around the suki lynch are my main motivation. This posts Show nested quote + If it's blatantly rediculous, DO NOT DO IT. You are almost confident suki is town, why are you placing your vote on him??? We still have a bit of time, closer to an hour. Now it just looks like you are bussing. and Show nested quote + I changed bacause I was not very condifent in either a Suki or Ange77 lynch and my Superouman lynch was useless. You agree that Unforgiven seems more scummy. I don't like how you are giving up to commit to a worse read. screams mafia for me. I've bolded the important statement. "They want me to be alive to get more people confused." Is this something a townie would say? What are you trying to imply here? What you are essentially admitting is that you are purposefully following the wrong lead, directing town to the wrong target. If you are town, why are you making remarks that keeping yourself alive will only lead to town confusion? | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
On June 08 2012 06:51 Unforgiven_ve wrote: OP: if there's a no lynch toda, please kill me and reveal my role. I won't make you lose Time whit this horrible players. Are you serious... Your play is entirely NOT what a townie would/should be doing. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
Sorry for my lack of activity Day 3. | ||
heist
United States720 Posts
Only one person to thank for that: ShaoPi. Thank you for believing in me. It was really gratifying to hear someone agree with me (even if I was mafia). And hey I tried to play day 1 exactly as I would have as if I was town except for the whole Suki part. You won us the game (), that and Xatalos' late game and the modkills. My biggest mistake was trying to deflect votes away from Suki. I'm pretty sure I wasn't too suspicious before the whole lynch pressure period. At least I hope I wasn't on too many people's radars except you Vivax. Vivax: I tunnelled you mercilessly pretty much the entire game. If it makes you feel better, at least it wasn't from a fellow townie. Although I would still argue you were not playing optimally as town, which made my case much easier to push through. You down right confused me sometimes. But good play getting people to back off of you, at least some of them. Solstice: Sorry but you really just had to go. With Suki lynched N1, and me in suspicion, we knew we couldn't really use our night kills for any sneaky play. We just had to try and take out the most aggressive player against us, which was you. It must have been really annoying not being able to respond to my post defending myself against your accusation. Great job Xatalos bringing it home for us. This was my first time playing mafia, so it was quite an interesting experience. | ||
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