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On June 06 2012 05:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So, you can't say that Toad and MZ are scum, unless you believe Kita is as well. In that case, you're claiming you just caught the entire scum team. Not quite as simple, but yeah.
If we don't get a third name, I'm suspicious of that group of 3. Everything rested on MZ getting shot, which may or may not have happened. Kita's medic claim rests on it. MZ's towniness rests on it. Toad's towniness rests on MZ's towniness.
If we do get a third name, then either that's the entire scumteam OR MZ and toad are confirmed. Unclaimed vig shot is possible, but I don't find it very likely.
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no need right now. Lynch kita and we're fine
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On June 06 2012 05:17 Toadesstern wrote:
no need right now. Lynch kita and we're fine
Posts like these add nothing to the thread. The mafia team are sitting back and laughing as the dt(?) and mason are pushing the mislynch on the medic. I already explained how the medic-claim is optimal. No medic has claimed and therefore I'm town. Even so, why am I the only player to have delivered an analysis today? You guys do realize that in addition to deciding whether or not I'm scum, we still need to come up with an alternate candidate. Waiting until tomorrow does not leave us enough time to gain a majority. Post from me incoming shortly.
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On June 06 2012 05:17 Toadesstern wrote:
no need right now. Lynch kita and we're fine What's the downside?
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On June 06 2012 05:58 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 05:17 Toadesstern wrote:
no need right now. Lynch kita and we're fine What's the downside?
being shot?
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Do you think that's a real risk considering neither you nor MZ (after being mentioned as masoned) has been shot at, and considering we've got 1, if not 2, blues claiming today?
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well WBG just recently got shot 
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We really don't need to kill kita today.
Anyone else feeling up for a wiggles lynch?
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Eliminating myself, Toad, and Meapak we have a pool of 11 players where the remaining four scum players reside. I have also removed Prob and Hassy. While he has not been confirmed 100% as a detective and the alignment check on hassybaby may be masked by a godfather cover, I do not believe they should be considered for lynch today. Additionally, as an anti-scum lyncher has already flipped, I think it is extremely likely that an anti-town lyncher is still in play. That leaves 5 out of 9 anti-town players in the following pool:
6. Hyaach
7. marvellosity
10. austinmcc
12. MajuGarzett
18. papapanda
22. Mr. Wiggles
24. Manason
26. EchelonTee
30. Kenpachi
I have read throug each player's filter and removed the players I have some degree of town read on.
austinmcc has shown signs that he cares about town and has shown motivation to scum hunt, he has defended zealos in order to push a gambit lynch. It seems unlikely that a mafia player will defend a scumbuddy, while pushing another scumbuddy. Finally, his silly conspiracy theory about a toad, meapak, kita scum group seems town to me.
marvellosity shows signs of frustration with inactivity and looks good after pushing the zealos lynch. In addition, he is the only player to have a back and forth conversation with zealos. His recent play has been less convincing, but I'm willing to put him off for later.
6. Hyaach
12. MajuGarzett
18. papapanda
22. Mr. Wiggles
24. Manason
26. EchelonTee
30. Kenpachi
I'm strongly considering pusing Kenpachi for the following post:
On May 30 2012 11:03 Kenpachi wrote:
shall we roll the metagame die?
I firmly believe 2-3 of the mafia team is made of Mafia veterans namely Wiggles Kitaman and even myself. I personally believe Wiggles is mafia cause he should have known better than to lynch Sinensis for day 1. poor as hell of a choice honestly.
So you might be asking why am i doing this? simple: im fucking good at doing this. after i pulled this shit off months ago, i noticed a trend in a lack of balanced mafia teams but i was able to point out players such as BloodyC0bbler with this method. but i figure, why the hell not try this again since im pretty sure hosts started going back to their balancing ways.
Look at this list carefully. They can all be potent mafia or town players. likely 2 or 3 are mafia. Why? If i was a host, id sure be unhappy if my entire team was 6 grushes.
2. Blazinghand
7. marvellosity
14. Toadesstern
15. Supersoft
21. Wherebugsgo
22. Mr. Wiggles
26. EchelonTee
27. kitaman27
28. VisceraEyes
29. Meapak_Ziphh
30. Kenpachi
well thats it. i havent actually read anyone's post on this list lawl
It seems pretty clear that the mafia team has a limited number of players with 20+ games experience based on the flips and identities of confirmed power roles. Pushing this sort of policy as a member of a mafia team of players such as gambit and zealos allow the vets to be at each others throats, while the quieter players sneak by.
On May 30 2012 10:30 Kenpachi wrote:
did i start the Zealos wagon? im gonna read his filter and give my thoughts.
On May 30 2012 10:34 Kenpachi wrote:
wait who added onto my Zealos analysis?
Furthermore, Kenpachi wants to remind us that he found zealous scummy, without actually pushing a zealos lynch.
The last two cycles he has done nothing but taunt me about my lynch, with no consideration that I could be town. He is always a tough read, but he is not a player I want around for endgame.
Wiggles I still feel is a good lynch. As I look through his posts, I really strugle to find town tells that show that he has the towns best interest in mind. Every single cycle he has taken a backseat role, only taken the time to comment about irrelevant information, lacking in true contribution. I would like to do a follow-up post to my previous analysis of wiggles, but this took too much time.
Please everyone respond to this post. The day is nearly half way over and we have gone absolutely nowhere. Does nobody care about this game?
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
I actually agree with kita right now. If there is someone else who protected MZ, then they really should claim right now. It's 100% more important to prevent a misslynch. As it stands its 10v4. That leaves us with two misslynches away from losing.
Also I terms of your check Prob, it's completely viable for scum to keep framing kita. He's been a lynch target for basically the entire game, so one would assume people would DT check him to check their sanity.
For the record kita, I still think Manason should die first. Have a look at the filter and seriously give me a reason as to why he isn't scummy.
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I am not going to vote Kenpachi. Let's assume we push for someone else instead of Kita which I am generally not willing to do but for the sake of it, let's assume I had to do it:
I'd be willing to lynch Maju instead.
Not going to vote someone else.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Earlier I said I would post on my top 2 reads, Manason and papapanda, so voila.
Manason, the brazen newbie scum
Taking a slightly different tack on this one. I'm about to take up a bunch of room with some quotes, but I put them here specifically to illustrate my point. Manason was quite willing to openly discuss and engage in the debate for mayor:
On May 27 2012 13:54 Manason wrote:
Assuming that Grush is going to be a bad townie is in my opinion a bad move. Give everyone a chance and the fact that your so set on killing this guy makes me wonder as to how easily you'll decide someone else is guilty. I'm all fine with someone who is set on making town lose die, but give him a chance first and condemn later. Rash decisions are what makes town lose.
On May 27 2012 14:03 Manason wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 13:55 Blazinghand wrote:
You clearly didn't read the LIV filter I linked if you think somehow Grush wasn't given a chance to be a good townie. I did indeed, and regardless I still believe that every game is different and it is only fair to disregard previous player actions. As I said before if there is no change in the way Gush conducts himself on the first day, by all means the mayor may lynch him. But I believe in a mayor that makes an informed decision based on actions in the current game rather than lynching him based on what he "might" do.
So here we have Manason taking a stance on the 'lynch grush' mayoral campaign(s).
On May 27 2012 23:52 Manason wrote:
I'm leaning more towards Mr. Wiggles at this point. He's the only one who has given complete sound reasoning on why he should be vice-leader. He promises to basically never use it. So if he does he's either just a bad townie, or scum. And he knows we'd lynch him. There is only one reason I can find not to trust him which is, Assuming he is scum he wants the position so a townie can't get it and so that closer to the endgame it can become the difference between a scum win and a townie win.
Also I don't know if this has already been brought up, but assuming the mayor is a good townie I think it's reasonable to believe that they'll be killed the first night, after all why would scum want a good townie in a position with double votes, it can only be bad for them. So we should start looking a little bit more closely at our mayor candidates, because if any of them have brains they've already figured it out they'll be dead the first night unless they're scum of course.
A reasoned out post on why he thinks Wiggles is the best candidate. Points here and there explaining his actions.
Next we have the setup for his subsequent play. Not sure why so little was made of this at the time:
On May 29 2012 13:25 Manason wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 12:53 jaj22 wrote:On May 29 2012 11:17 Manason wrote:
Perhaps we should be focusing on people that aren't posting a lot? Or at least taking a closer look. The scum reads I've seen so far are only for people that have been actively posting and while more posts does help you when figuring out someones alignment, the smaller posts can be more telling.
Been staring at those, failed to find anything worth mentioning except papapanda's abdictation of responsibility on the Grush/Sinensis thing, which is probably in character for him. Honestly I'd be happy to kill anyone with fewer than five posts, because they're killing town. It's a long list. On May 29 2012 11:17 Manason wrote:
I'd also like to see a bit more sureness in your lynch possiblities Wiggles. While I understand you just lynched a townie and might be hesitant to be so quick to pounce on someone, I'd be curious to hear who's on your radar. Why? He's just a guy with two votes. Who's on your radar? I voted for Mr. Wiggles because I trusted that he would make a good lynch, so I'm curious as to who he would want to lynch because to be honest I don't have the time nor will power to sit here and analyze everyone. I'd rather someone who I know is better than me to be suspicious and then I can form my own opinion on the matter. The people on my radar I would rather not say because I have zero evidence to back up my claims other than pure intuition, which could be wrong. So no use making enemies when no one will believe me anyway.
Read: I will not make cases and I'm probably not gonna make cases. Jeez. This is townie? No.
It's been said before, but I'm trying to consolidate here:
On May 31 2012 15:43 Manason wrote:
Sorry VE, but theres a lot of evidence making you look bad.
##Unvote: Kitaman
##Vote: VisceraEyes
However I still do look forward to what you have on Kita, If it's good enough you might have a chance to not get lynched.
On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote:
Ok well there is something I want to make clear right now. I never thought VE was Scum.
Little explaining needed. As elsewhere in my filter, last game in Magic I caught Zealos scum for saying he lynched someone he thought was a townie day 1.
On June 02 2012 10:31 Manason wrote:
##Vote Kitaman
I will post a case later.
Do we get a case?
On June 05 2012 06:04 Manason wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 05:59 marvellosity wrote:On June 05 2012 05:56 Manason wrote:
I am confused,
can someone please tell me what's going on with Toad and his circle? I am confused, I'm sure you said you were going to make a case on kita but I can't for the life of me find it I started to make a case, but it took to long and I decided to go play Skyrim.
This is the brazen I'm talking about. Refusing to make cases and no-one is suspicious of him. I'd like to note an earlier comment he made here:
On May 29 2012 11:17 Manason wrote:
I know I haven't posted a lot you guys, which is mostly due to the fact that I've been on vacation and hardly have found the time to read all the posts much less post myself.
This was quite near the start, explaining his not-great deal of posting on vacation. Except now he's not on vacation, he's posting even less of content, using other terrible excuses (playing Skyrim?!)
Conclusion: Sheeps a vote on VE, explaining he thought he was town
Does not scumhunt, or promises to and fails to deliver
Posts with good explanations and points during the mayoral debates, but the sum total of his scum analysis is this:
On any fucking time at all Manason wrote:
Scum.
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papapanda, the wishy-washy scum:
It's harder to pick out posts for wishywashyness here, but posts like these:
On May 30 2012 07:46 papapanda wrote:
Supersoft,
I feel like you have been contradicting yourself through the game. You changed your own priority for targets quite a bit. Vigging Wiggles, are you serious? He said he was lynching sinensis, if he had changed target last second, that would have been more alarming.
Sorry what is your position for toad once again? I don't feel like we forced him to claim anything. You seem to be one of the few that is OK with his play. What is the "obvious" reason for him to mason you?
Claiming vig is tough. As there is really no way to confirm you in terms of methods as toad is using, you can't call the shot beforehand.
As Toad already picked his buddy, I just want to say that I will be worried if you are the one who claims mason for him.
Lots of questions as with much of his filter in general. This is the kind of post that's a post for the sake of it.
On June 01 2012 06:12 papapanda wrote:
Grush, if you starsense is telling you VE is not scum, don't vote for him...vote for who you believe to be scum; I would recommend wriggles(long as its not me)
Gambit didn't respond yet, if he ninjas today he is dead tomorrow.
The only reliable way I can think of to confirm VE is 1)tell him who to shoot 2)someone protect the target 3) target tells us whats up.
Before you post comments on why this is a stupid plan, I want to say that I agree it's a stupid plan and this is not going to happen tonight because so many things can go wrong.
#Vote:VE
This post is obviously the big one. It just screams scum. Don't vote for VE! Wiggles is more likely scum, vote for him! Except I will vote for VE! The reason he's voting for VE? The plan to confirm his vig shot is flawed. Well where the fuck does that say VE is scum? It just doesn't. As far as single condemning posts go, this one is pretty high up the list.
The saga goes on, because he's pressed on it:
On June 01 2012 06:43 papapanda wrote:
Both you and I have read MZ's cases, as well as other posts, can we agree that his points are valid?
However as I was reading it, I was, using your term, on the fence for VE's lynch.
What I didn't like was how he responded to the pressure. He claimed vig, one the the toughest role to prove at this stage of the game. Ofcourse it's possible he is vig, and what ticked for me was what he said about if he was the mafia leader, the mafia would try more to save him...(can't find the post, but I'm pretty certain that I read it today). Wifom doesn't work as defenses...(learned that the hard way last game, marvellosity;p).
Anyhow, my point is I find VE scummy and people trying to spread the vote are also worth looking at(hi kenpachi).
More bad, just everywhere. At the start, he's just saying "MZ made a good case no? didn't he just?" But still NO explanation from him on what HE finds particularly scummy. Then again we have him talking about vig for most of his post. Between his last post and this one we have him spending most of the time talking about the vig part, which is actually relatively pretty unimportant. He concludes by saying 'I find VE scummy'. Why? How? ...
On June 01 2012 07:12 papapanda wrote:
VE has been contradicting himself through the game. The thing about playing completely different playstyle, day-game and night-game, is just bullocks.
VE's vote-jumping I dislike.
VE's responses are inappropriate as a town.
Marv,
May I ask you what part of the case you find invalid?
The day-night game difference. I'm pretty sure that was supersoft that said this, not VE. So we can scratch that as a non-point. VE's vote-jumping is null, and the third point, his responses are 'inappropriate'? What does this even mean? I'm going on a bit now but everything about papapanda's vote on VE and his subsequent explanation reeks of scum.
For further reading, here is his filter from LIV where he was town. He's more open, more engaging, less afraid to post. There's an honesty and lack of deception in his filter in LIV that does not seem present here.
Conclusion: wishy washy
Terrible, terrible vote and subsequent explanation on VE (main point!)
less contributory than as town in LIV
Scum.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
kitaman: the problem I have with Kenpachi and Wiggles is this.
Kenpachi always plays low content and generally 'scummily'. The post you quoted that you found scummy came before we were aware of where several of the power roles lay.
Mr Wiggles hasn't been as active as I'd like, especially after he ran for mayor. But I followed the entirety of Liar game and Wiggles was always on that same cusp of not posting very much, and with a lot of questions, that didn't look great. Except he flipped town.
Basically those two players haven't made me go 'bazing! scum!' like Manason and papa.
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On June 06 2012 07:14 kitaman27 wrote:I'm strongly considering pusing Kenpachi for the following post: Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 11:03 Kenpachi wrote:
shall we roll the metagame die?
I firmly believe 2-3 of the mafia team is made of Mafia veterans namely Wiggles Kitaman and even myself. I personally believe Wiggles is mafia cause he should have known better than to lynch Sinensis for day 1. poor as hell of a choice honestly.
So you might be asking why am i doing this? simple: im fucking good at doing this. after i pulled this shit off months ago, i noticed a trend in a lack of balanced mafia teams but i was able to point out players such as BloodyC0bbler with this method. but i figure, why the hell not try this again since im pretty sure hosts started going back to their balancing ways.
Look at this list carefully. They can all be potent mafia or town players. likely 2 or 3 are mafia. Why? If i was a host, id sure be unhappy if my entire team was 6 grushes.
2. Blazinghand
7. marvellosity
14. Toadesstern
15. Supersoft
21. Wherebugsgo
22. Mr. Wiggles
26. EchelonTee
27. kitaman27
28. VisceraEyes
29. Meapak_Ziphh
30. Kenpachi
well thats it. i havent actually read anyone's post on this list lawl It seems pretty clear that the mafia team has a limited number of players with 20+ games experience based on the flips and identities of confirmed power roles. Pushing this sort of policy as a member of a mafia team of players such as gambit and zealos allow the vets to be at each others throats, while the quieter players sneak by. Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 10:30 Kenpachi wrote:
did i start the Zealos wagon? im gonna read his filter and give my thoughts. Furthermore, Kenpachi wants to remind us that he found zealous scummy, without actually pushing a zealos lynch. The last two cycles he has done nothing but taunt me about my lynch, with no consideration that I could be town. He is always a tough read, but he is not a player I want around for endgame. Wiggles I still feel is a good lynch. As I look through his posts, I really strugle to find town tells that show that he has the towns best interest in mind. Every single cycle he has taken a backseat role, only taken the time to comment about irrelevant information, lacking in true contribution. I would like to do a follow-up post to my previous analysis of wiggles, but this took too much time. Please everyone respond to this post. The day is nearly half way over and we have gone absolutely nowhere. Does nobody care about this game?
oh you read me completely correctly.
It was all planned
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oh god I woke up in a panic thinking I missed deadline. phew.
let's get this show in the road 
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On June 05 2012 16:37 kitaman27 wrote:
With the roleblocker dead, its likely that the scum team cannot stop my save. Therefore, if I protect prob, it takes both of their kp to take him out. If we lynch a secondary scum suspect other than myself today, I can prove to the thread that both Prob and an additional townie cannot die while I live. It's possible that the mafia team will double stack prob and then push my lynch the following cycle, but that opens up the risk of a watcher or tracker, which is potentially game ending for them.
OK Kita, I am willing to give this a try. If myself and someone else die overnight, you get lynched tomorrow. If it is just me than the rest of the town can decide what to do with you (I would suggest he swings). This is the right play given the circumstances and much as I dislike giving Kita a break, I am having doubts.
So my other targets, well I've spoken about them previously. Maju, Manason and possibly papapanda but I would prefer one of the first two. I won't be voting for Kenpachi, he has posted, which is more than he normally does. Wiggles is a possibility but for this lynch I would be happier with one of the other three. Everytime I read his filter I come away feeling that he has been reasonable but ineffective. He clearly isn't putting in the effort we want of him but right now, I would be more comfortable with either Maju or Manason. I know it isn't a logical position to take, but my brain hurts and I am feeling pretty shitty for how I have been played. So give me a break. We can lynch him tomorrow if necessary.
Toad, I share your sentiments. The evidence for Kita being scum is huge and the only thing saving him is the possibility that he got framed on night 2. People seem to forget that he looked scummy to most people at some point and has never looked outright townie. Before his claim we were all sure he was scum but now based solely off a claim which scum could make, he is suddenly town.
If we have another medic, I now agree that he should claim. I wanted to lynch Kita with out our medic being revealed but that is not going to happen, so he if he is out there, he needs to claim. It would prove Kita is scum (well depending on who claims but it is highly likely) and so we would go into the night with only three scum left. Yes, the medic would probably die but that would give me the opportunity to check one more person. Given the number of cleared players that is huge. If I get doublestacked, that means more of you "probably townies" survive which is OK.
Sorry guys, I think I fucked up yesterday by claiming. Everything lined up for Kita being scum that I felt I had to do it to ensure his lynch. The possibility of a framer did enter my calculations but that was one source of doubt against a tide of confirmatory information. I got played, or I am being played and it feels real shitty.
Let's lynch maju and get us back on track.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
gonna have to take a closer look at maju, plenty of people are suspicious of him and he's slipped me by a little while i was hunting for other scum
Prob, opinions on my cases?
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I don't see why people want to lynch me over Mana. Unless I missed anything, the case on me is that I have a low post to content ratio. While I may not have scumhunted as much as I should have, as Marv pointed out earlier on this page Mana has not scumhunted at all and has made numerous suspicious plays other than that.
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So if we agree on giving Kita a chance
##Vote: Manason
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Since you are around, could you provide your opinion on everyone else you find noteworthy? Those couple of sentences arent sufficient if you hope to live.
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EPT
