EPTNewbie Mini Mafia IX - Page 10
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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Pure-SC2
United Kingdom1440 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:20 Daymor wrote: EBWOP: @ Pure-SC2 I probably should have included this in my last post also. But another post from Nova that is bugging me is; First of all I have no idea as to who this post was aimed at, maybe Therapist? But to me this post gives me a bad vibe. It seems like quite an aggressive defense (in particular the first two lines), and the tone seems that of exasperation or aggression. I don't think you mentioned the post in your case, but what kind of impression does that post leave you with? Thanks for highlighting this Daymor, I did read the post when I did my filter review, but as I wasn't reading it "in-line" with the thread, I didn't look at the context, just the tone. And the tone is very defensive. After a review, I believe this post was in response to TheRavensName, who pointed out that he thought Nova was rather lynch happy - which at that point was 100% true as he was "pressure" voting without actually adding anything himself (part of the 14 initial posts he made which I commented on in my initial case against Nova). His response to this doesn't calmly state the nature of his pressure voting, but is a very defensive post and again he relates it back to the fact that he was scum in a previous game and how he's playing it different this time. This just adds to my initial suspicions. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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oneplus
Malaysia34 Posts
Lorant is right about english is not my mother tongue so I try to explain everything in a simple way and hope everyone can understand it. I feel that lazer vote on nova is very questionable, the way you change your vote is too sudden. But this is a good move, if you both are scum after you lynch your scummate, you will earn 100% trust from the town. Now everyone has started to review post and analyzise more after I make my view on Nova, when I am the only one against him he sound like everything i said doesn't make sense at all but now when there is more and more people agasint him, he started to apologize and try to agree with each others. I would like to explain in this way "he is someone in the platinum league but try to act like he is a grandmaster but now he retract and saying actually he is a platinum" | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Pure-SC2
United Kingdom1440 Posts
The comments I made about your posts before the game started were expanded on in my EBWOP. They are applicable because you were already trying to distance yourself from your previous mafia roles, which is fine. But, then you continued using that same approach once the game started which immediately rang scummy to me. You haven't claimed to be a town leader, but from the outset of the day you placed yourself as the post monitor, telling us who was posting fluff, and how hard you were going to be on them, re-iterating the lack of activity (without contributing). That comes across to me as someone who is trying a little too hard to appear active. You already have my thoughts on that. Regarding your comment towards oneplus: Oneplus posted no real reason to suspect me that was good. That sounds a lot like you in regards to your suspicious of Solohan50, don't you think? We're still waiting for this insightful explanation as to why his first post was scummy. I've re-read oneplus's filter and agree with the assessment made by Lorant, that oneplus obviously doesn't speak english natively and as such his posts take a bit more reading. Even so, I can see that he does provide some reasoning as to why he suspects you: - Notes that Lazer and Nova are very firm to lynch someone - Picks up on the fact that Nova constantly refers to mafia role in previous games - Highlights Novas over reactive defensive posting to his suspicions - Picks up on the association between Nova and Lazer that I noticed also. * This is significantly more reasoning than you've given for your suspicions against Solohan50. Also, sick connection case. Nothing quite like suspecting people because they share a similar view in early game. It's not just a similar view, Lazer (and to a lesser extent Crossfire) supported you in your suspicions of Solohan50 without one shred of reasoning, just like you. Rather than offer any reasoning as to why you think there is no association between you, or even offering your reasoning for suspicions on Solohan, you take a further defensive stance without offering anything. At this stage, I don't have a scum read on Crossfire, only noted the association. I'll be looking at Lazer more closely as he has several things in his filter now that tend towards scum. Also, When did this go from lynching Lurkers to voting for people who actually contribute and provoke discussion? because you cant disagree that voting for someone who is creating discussion is a terrible idea with the state of the current town. For me, this occurred when I was able to build a case I had a reasonably high level of confidence in. Which is quite a sensible approach if you think about it. And voting for someone who is suspicious (for several reasons) is a great idea if you have that read on day 1. Using the fact that you've created discussion as a reason not to lynch you is not a defence. Also i love how everyone is jumping on the sick bandwagon. really good play This just sounds anti-town to me. I reviewed everyone's filter, and when I looked at my notes afterwards, I had you as the most suspicious based on the reasons already stated. I noticed that in the time I'd put that together, Oneplus and Daymor has posted a similar read. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On April 17 2012 00:07 Pure-SC2 wrote: An interesting post Nova. I've taken some time to go through it and see how it relates to my case against you. The comments I made about your posts before the game started were expanded on in my EBWOP. They are applicable because you were already trying to distance yourself from your previous mafia roles, which is fine. But, then you continued using that same approach once the game started which immediately rang scummy to me. You haven't claimed to be a town leader, but from the outset of the day you placed yourself as the post monitor, telling us who was posting fluff, and how hard you were going to be on them, re-iterating the lack of activity (without contributing). That comes across to me as someone who is trying a little too hard to appear active. You already have my thoughts on that. Regarding your comment towards oneplus: That sounds a lot like you in regards to your suspicious of Solohan50, don't you think? We're still waiting for this insightful explanation as to why his first post was scummy. I've re-read oneplus's filter and agree with the assessment made by Lorant, that oneplus obviously doesn't speak english natively and as such his posts take a bit more reading. Even so, I can see that he does provide some reasoning as to why he suspects you: - Notes that Lazer and Nova are very firm to lynch someone - Picks up on the fact that Nova constantly refers to mafia role in previous games - Highlights Novas over reactive defensive posting to his suspicions - Picks up on the association between Nova and Lazer that I noticed also. * This is significantly more reasoning than you've given for your suspicions against Solohan50. It's not just a similar view, Lazer (and to a lesser extent Crossfire) supported you in your suspicions of Solohan50 without one shred of reasoning, just like you. Rather than offer any reasoning as to why you think there is no association between you, or even offering your reasoning for suspicions on Solohan, you take a further defensive stance without offering anything. At this stage, I don't have a scum read on Crossfire, only noted the association. I'll be looking at Lazer more closely as he has several things in his filter now that tend towards scum. For me, this occurred when I was able to build a case I had a reasonably high level of confidence in. Which is quite a sensible approach if you think about it. And voting for someone who is suspicious (for several reasons) is a great idea if you have that read on day 1. Using the fact that you've created discussion as a reason not to lynch you is not a defence. This just sounds anti-town to me. I reviewed everyone's filter, and when I looked at my notes afterwards, I had you as the most suspicious based on the reasons already stated. I noticed that in the time I'd put that together, Oneplus and Daymor has posted a similar read. Okay, so yes, i know that oneplus probably not native english speaker. I have explained the think about wanting to lynch someone multiple times now. He highlights my defensive posting? I called OMGUS on him because he OMGUS'ed. Suddenly i have a defensive reaction. Hit too close to home, did i? Call out a defensive reaction because i truthfully point something out. Also the association between me and Lazer is a result of that OMGUS in his eyes, as well as the fact that we agreed with eachother. Do you know how often people reference other mafia members on day 1 in a newbie game? not often. Therefore it is WIFOM to speculate on a connection case right now, especially in this situation. However, it may be true that Lazer and Crossfire jumped on a potentially weak player in Solohan, but that is unrelated to me except for the fact that i brought up solohan to begin with. The fact that i have provoked discussion is a perfect way to defend myself on day 1, when this many players have said that they want a lurker lynch AND when its completely truthful. And yeah, im being sarcastic and cynical. Pretty much because im mad and i find a lot of this bandwagoning annoying. And as he isnt posting, i'll be voting Solohan50. I never said that i think he is scum for sure or anything, just that the posts were scummy. However, as he is not responding, i will be going for him. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
##Vote: Solohan50 | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
The reason why I think solo is a little suspicious is because he hasn't said much, but with those few words he has said, he has tacitly supported a no lynch by saying + Show Spoiler + My analysis is based on the Mafia guide that I've been reading which says that lynching Town members generally doesn't give much information. This would be doubly true if we lynch a lurker who hasn't said much, because there's no information about that person. The whole point of the post was to encourage people to post more, so we can avoid having to lynch a lurker. In my eyes, unless we get lucky and the lurker is Mafia, we benefit very little and we're down one more player. Now I am curious about you, though. Why vote for me when it seems that you thought lazer or nova was more suspicious? You also say that your entire argument is based on a gut feeling. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2012 17:33 Lorant wrote: This suspicion on Crossfire is mainly coming from my gut | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On April 15 2012 00:46 Solohan50 wrote: Yeah, lynching lurkers isn't a terrible idea (it's not spectacular either though), especially if you make it known ahead of time. That (should) inspire everyone to post at least a little bit, giving us more information on Day 1 and hopefully leading to better lynches. With any luck though, everyone will be active and we can avoid having to lynch a lurker. If the lurker that gets lynched Day 1 is Town, then we gain almost no information, because they haven't posted anything. tl:dr Post, people! As i am voting for him anyway and theres no reason not to as i am voting for him, heres why i found his 1st post suspicious. Okay, so first, Solohan50 does not present an opinion that is clear and to the point. you cant even tell really if he does support lynching lurkers because of it. The main think in this post is the presence of all the parts i highlighted red. Note how he continuously adds things to make his post seem agreeable and something he can fall back on later. It seems as if he is trying to play so that he cant be suspected for his opinions because he notes how it also isnt good. Trying to be Mister Agreeable is scummy. Also, this post is pretty much recycled opinions from other people. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On April 16 2012 15:35 Lazermonkey wrote: Morning everyone! So I wake up, read the thread and tbh I'm quite dissapointed in the progress made during the night. We are getting nowhere atm. We really need to stop discuss the possibility of no lynches. I agree with you, but this would only occur if everyone had posted really good opinions and cases. We aren't even close to that point right now. The following effects of a no lynch atm would probebly be something in line with: 1. Noone is lynched 2. Mafia most likely get a kill since there is such a small chance that the roleblocker/jailer would hit the right target due to little information. 3. The killed target townie and is a lurker/person who only posted that no lynch is a good opinion. 4. No info is have been archived. I'm not sure if noob or scum, but This has been said over 9000 times in this thread. Please post something new... Also im working on a brief post analysis on Lazer but i have to note small chance that the roleblocker/jailer would hit the right target Scum slip scum slip, says that we have a Roleblocker! Not a town role everybody! | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:19 Lazermonkey wrote: Wow, that is some really nice analysis, Pure! Here are my random thoughts about it Up untill this point I was quite sure that Nova wasn't scum, but now I'm starting to question it. An aspect that I think that you havn't brought up is his early game. The one thing that reallty is Pro-town about him is that he really tried his best to get the discussion going. He did some pressures and tried to get the lurkers to speak. He also was very clear about that he didn't like any fluff, although it is true he have been posting lots of posts that havn't really addded anything at all. This could be explained by the fact that we all pretty much agreed upon that lynching lurkers would be possible on day 1 and that he tried to get immune to lynches the very first day be being active. So with that in mind I think that his early game plans isn't very telling. It could've been done outof both perspectives. I'm writing as I am thinking, which is why the text above at first looks very fluffy ^^. Still think it is nice to know. As for Solohan50, The one thing I thought was that the 2 very short posts he actually made were basically echoing what everybody had said a dozen times before him. For me, this looked like a nice way to put some pressure at him and make him contribute and post some more material, rather than actually saying that he was 100% scum. As for Nova intention tho, I have no idea. The only thing that is problematic with your post is how late it is. I know this could be because of a thousand reasons but it does in fact make a difference. To me, most of thoose reasons could be broke down into; 1)You are a townie/blue and just havn't had the time to post. 2)You are scum and want to protect your scum-bro macheji, who I think got the most votes atm(although that seems quite unlikely to me as you set him up on your list of lurkers of people that you are fine with lynching). 3)You are scum, macheji is a townie/blue but you would rather kill Nova as you see him as a bigger threat. I think 1 is the most likely, but all should be considered. Atm I think the most interesting lynch would in fact be Nova. Not because he is confirmed scum in any way, but because of the possible information we could be given. If he flips town, we really need to think about Pure intention with his post. ## Unvote ## Vote Nova_Terra Seeing as this is an important post, i want to note a couple things i do not like about it. You note a couple things in this post about my play that seem pro town, and you seem to want to go for an information lynch. You do not vote for an active thought provoking player for information. you vote an active thought provoking player if you think they are scum. And that doesnt seem so much the case here as you are defending some things i do. With the current activity, if you mislynch me you lose a lot more than if you mislynch some lurker. Wouldnt it be interesting if you KNEW i was townie, then made remarks slightly defending me to distance yourself from this lynch, still voted for the easy target without adding anything bad against him, Saw that me and him were being connected and then voted because he knew it would make him seem more town when i flipped, and then said that we would have to look into Pure more when i flip town? Also, as a townie you dont suggest much about blues. You shouldnt. This looks almost like Blue Fishing, which is scummy. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Solohan50
37 Posts
After looking through some filters, we definitely have a fair amount of lurkers floating around. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell if they're just busy people or if they're lurking in a scummy way. So far, the list appears to be: Crossfire - 3 posts after the game has started, and all regarding Day 1 lynches. Hasn't contributed anything else though. He did post that he was unsure of how you lynch a person on Day 1 at the beginning of the game. His last two posts, however, had a much more confident tone about who and why we should lynch on Day 1. Is this scum that's playing coy, or did he just read up on the subject? Since it's a newbie game, I'm inclined to give him a pass on the change of tone (for now), and assume that he went out and read a Mafia guide or something. Macheji - Hasn't posted in 2 days. Likely getting modkilled. Not much else to say since he hasn't posted anything. BlueyD - Has 3 posts since the game started. Tacitly supports Nova based on information from previous games. Gets a little caught up on the No Lynch debate, but provides more analysis than most have. TheRavensName - A handful of one-liner posts and a safe vote for the lurker who's likely to get modkilled (though to be fair, the modkill wasn't on the table until recently). Oneplus - He's lurked to a lesser extent. He's come out of hiding in the last day and started becoming more active. Since Mecheji had more votes than oneplus did at the time oneplus reappeared, I'm inclined to say that the lurking wasn't a scumslip. If Oneplus had more votes than Mecheji at the time Oneplus returned, I would be more inclined to say that he started posting due to pressure, but that's not the case. Therapist - Has only really posted about the No Lynch and hasn't posted since. I'd like to see him post more so I can get more of a feel on him. The confusion about the No Lynch is understandable, but it's hard to get a read when that's all he's posted about. ----------------------------------- And then there's Nova. He decried spam and fluff posts at the beginning of the game, but a good portion of his posts have been one liners, such as: On April 16 2012 19:35 Nova_Terra wrote: LOL whaaaat? and what is a FourFace doing in this thread o.o On April 16 2012 19:39 Nova_Terra wrote: FourFace, what N word?! Newbie? Did I? damn. just meant bad. apologies On April 16 2012 21:47 Nova_Terra wrote: Also i love how everyone is jumping on the sick bandwagon. really good play He's also been overly aggressive and defensive, moreso than a Townie should be, even going so far as to say: On April 16 2012 18:09 Nova_Terra wrote: ROFL. Thats fine, dig your own grave. I can't tell if that's a veiled threat or if Nova is just an asshole (or both?). On top of that, his whole argument against me was an argument reminiscient of an old, married couple. I ask what I did wrong, and he responds with "You know what you did wrong!". Hyperbole aside, even after I replied, saying that I didn't know what he found wrong with my post, he continued with his line that he wanted to see what I said first. This seems like he was just trying to waste time with his accusation while not having to bother backing it up. He only started substantiating his argument against me once he had multiple votes on him, some of which stemmed from his accusations of me. This seems like he's being overly defensive and trying to save his own skin once his accusation got him in hot water. Because of this, I'm going to vote for Nova. ##Vote: Nova_Terra | ||
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Solohan50
37 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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