Newbie Mini Mafia VIII - Page 49

On April 20 2012 06:23 KharadBanar wrote:
The main reason why I don't think of willz as that likely scum anymore is that he actively helped me defend myself and get out of Dittert's fake accusation when he could have easily switched his vote over to me and more or less assured a scum victory if any townie had taken the bait and voted for me.
No scum would have ever done that. Not even Dittert. They would have thrown their victory away.

On April 17 2012 04:30 Xatalos wrote:
Why Am I Town?

I'm the first to admit I have had many faults, the greatest of which are these:

- Tunnel Vision: ignoring a lot of stuff, especially alternative explanations for events (such as yomi voting for Willz to save himself not being a Mafia-specific action)
- Confirmation Bias: focusing on proving myself right more than on finding the truth (I had a pretty hard time letting go off my ArcticFox suspicions, although my reasons for suspecting him weren't very good to begin with)
- Paranoia: mentioning every little suspicious detail from pretty much every player so far (I even mentioned specifically Acrofales for lurking the Day 1 lynch, although he was far from the only lurker in that situation and wasn't even otherwise suspicious at all)
- Stupidity: misunderstanding rules, posts and even pronouns (my greatest moment of stupidity was thinking yomi claimed doctor while he was just talking in general)

Through these faults I have caused anti-town atmosphere, which is an understandable reason to believe I would be Mafia. But I want you to take a moment and consider: is that the only explanation?

- Tunnel Vision is not really a Mafia trait, since Mafia would be happy to lynch any townie, not a specific townie
- Confirmation Bias is plausibly a Mafia trait, since Mafia know the roles of everyone and thus want to prove themselves right instead of finding the truth
- Paranoia is not really a Mafia trait, since Mafia don't have any need to be suspicious of their fellow players or to gather too much attention
- Stupidity is neither a town or Mafia trait

In conclusion, only one of the reasons for my sometimes anti-town play is a Mafia trait. Even so, it's not exclusively a Mafia trait, but rather a trait of a person emotional about something (in this case, lynching Mafia).

Now, what pro-town have I done to redeem these faults?

- Activity: I have posted a lot, more than anyone else - perhaps not as much useful content as Acrofales or KharadBanar, but definitely among the most even in that category
- Transparency: I have been like an open book, giving my opinion on everything without hesitation, never being afraid of suspicious slips or being proved wrong in the end
- Focus on Mafia Hunting: most of my posts consist of accusing a player, noticing suspicious behaviour, giving my Mafia reads, demanding explanations, demanding activity or analyzing possible Mafia&Mafia / town & Mafia / town & town interactions between two players

All of my anti-town plays are (at least somewhat) explainable from a town perspective, but are these pro-town plays explainable from a Mafia perspective?

- Activity is definitely not a Mafia trait: Mafia would prefer to fly under the radar and plan inside their own chat, not to be on the spotlight of the discussion all the time
- Transparency is the opposite of a Mafia trait: Mafia would never want to give more information and thoughts to the discussion than necessary
- Focus on Mafia Hunting is again the opposite of a Mafia trait: Mafia want to delay and distract Mafia hunting, not to focus on it in their own posting

So none of these pro-town plays are really explainable from a Mafia perspective. Of course Mafia would love to look as pro-town as possible, but not at the cost of losing the game because of it. Willingness to establish your innocence at the cost of advancing town agenda and probably having to bus your teammates along the way is not strong Mafia play - it's ineffective Mafia play.

On April 20 2012 06:32 Xatalos wrote:
That logic is so horrible it hurts. I was the first to mention why Dittert's claim wasn't genuine, and I didn't definitely vote for you or even think about doing that. Willz not voting for you either makes me Mafia exactly how?

On April 20 2012 04:14 willz22912 wrote:
I am calling for all the real town to vote Xatalos instead now, including KB, to show that Dittert was being bussed by his teammates Xatalos and imallinson. The game is going to go on regardless if Dittert gets bussed by his teammates, the only information we will get is who gets shot N3, but gleaning information based on who Mafia shoot is completely WIFOM for town.

On April 20 2012 04:27 willz22912 wrote:
@ KB if you agree with my reasoning, please change your vote off Dittert and give town a chance to lynch Xatalos instead.

On April 20 2012 06:23 KharadBanar wrote:
The main reason why I don't think of willz as that likely scum anymore is that he actively helped me defend myself and get out of Dittert's fake accusation when he could have easily switched his vote over to me and more or less assured a scum victory if any townie had taken the bait and voted for me.
No scum would have ever done that. Not even Dittert. They would have thrown their victory away.

On April 20 2012 06:36 KharadBanar wrote:

I have this to say about that:


He actively gave me a chance to prove that I was not the scum in that situation by being willing to actually scumhunt. That's what I was referring to.

On April 20 2012 05:31 willz22912 wrote:




So basically, he says Dittert is his #1 scumread for his fake-claim and Dittert is also the leading lynch candidate with 3 votes, but now he's willing to switch and support me because my judgement seems sound, except for the fact that imallinson says himself that he thinks I'm more scummier than Xatalos in his mind. I have put imallinson as the 3rd scummiest/member of the scum team in mind (after Xatalos at #1 and Dittert at #2 now for his DT case) Anyone else want to make sense of this, I would like an objective opinion on how this looks to all of you.

On April 20 2012 06:45 willz22912 wrote:
@Xatalos, if you believe Dittert's DT claim to be real, why not vote KharadBanar since a DT check is also "100% confirmed Mafia" and Dittert also voted him as well, giving you +1 vote, making it more likely to save yourself?

Why vote me instead if you believe Dittert's claim (and do you think I'm also town considering Dittert is not willing to vote me anymore and he's a DT?)

On April 20 2012 06:48 KharadBanar wrote:

He isn't considering Dittert's check to be real, he considers it to be very likely fake but you even more likely mafia. Even though I don't agree with him as much as he'd probably like, my opinion has since swung again in favour of him because you haven't been quite as active in saving me as I originally thought.

On April 20 2012 06:48 KharadBanar wrote:

He isn't considering Dittert's check to be real, he considers it to be very likely fake but you even more likely mafia. Even though I don't agree with him as much as he'd probably like, my opinion has since swung again in favour of him because you haven't been quite as active in saving me as I originally thought.

On April 20 2012 06:42 Xatalos wrote:
At this point, I'm even ready to consider the possibility that Dittert's claim was actually genuine, but you abused his going AFK and turned it somehow into lynching me. Why do I think it might have been genuine?

A) KharadBanar was praised a lot from his previous game.
B) In this game, KharadBanar has been mostly sheeping and using horrible logic, not actively pushing much of anything.

In that case, the only good option now would be to lynch Willz (since Dittert wouldn't be Mafia after all).

On April 20 2012 06:51 funcmode wrote:
If there's one thing I've come as close as possible to convincing myself of tonight, it's that Dittert can't have been telling the truth with his DT claim.

If Dittert was telling the truth and he was town, and if Willz is scum would have known Dittert was town, and would have been happy for Dittert to be lynched (especially so if he was DT). The fact that he didn't, and went to all this effort to instead get people to switch to vote you instead (citing he'd still be happy for a Dittert lynch) suggests to me that Dittert can't possibly be telling the truth.

I might even vote for Dittert right now but I'm unsure of any implications this might have in regards to other people switching votes and what might result.