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On April 20 2012 03:51 willz22912 wrote:
Please town, for the love of god ignore this bus, vote Xatalos, and if he flips Mafia, then the game goes on and we can easily verify my claims of the scum-team from the 100% confirmation we get from his flip. Especially KB, if you are town and Dittert is making his case up then you don't need to vote him this minute and can ignore him, choose between lynching myself or Dittert like the original D3 was going to be.
Lynching Dittert when he's potentially getting bussed by his teammates is not the best town play we can make right now, either you believe my reasoning and lynch Xatalos, or you should lynch me because you believe Dittert is making a last second play to save me. However, how is Dittert making this claim "saving me" when he's tunneled me all game and I have defended him as well, creating an obvious connection between us. He also does nothing to deter suspicion from me, according to Xatalos if Dittert flips Mafia I should be the next obvious lynch anyway, how does this make sense if we're both Mafia, this is the worst plan ever if he's trying to deter attention from me to him, if anything he is creating MORE suspicion upon me so I become easier to mis-lynch D4.
This actually seems like the sensible thing to do. The Xatalos scum bus reasoning sounds really smart, and I admit it's not very likely that you and Dittert would be scum together. Listening to Dittert at this point in time won't get town anywhere because if ANY of you votes for the wrong guy, mafia is all over him at the last second. Whatever happens, it is in your best interest to pretend the claim has never happened and not vote for either of us.
I just hope this works out.
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OK, for whatever reason I didn't make that link between you not voting Dittert because doing so would be pointless. Makes perfect sense now.
Still leaves me in a bit of an awkward situation. Dittert's last post actually makes some sense... Though I'm still having trouble making sense of things if Dittert really is the DT...
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@ KB if you agree with my reasoning, please change your vote off Dittert and give town a chance to lynch Xatalos instead.
@funcmode, Dittert's last post is speculation, as is mine for what Mafia intend to do. However I at least have given weight to my statements to convince you to support me, what has Dittert done to convince anyone he is really the DT? Nothing.
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See it that way. If Dittert actually were the DT and I were actually scum you could win if you vote me and everybody else in town thinks that way. If not, then you just lost because scum is going to vote me.
The other way around: Dittert is lying and scum, and I'm town. You could now vote for Dittert and hope that the rest of town believes my story. Or we could just hunt some other scum. (Note that the votes already on Dittert are very likely to be mafia who want to trick town into believing they already have enough votes on him and it's not necessary to vote for someone else.)
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EBWOP: Oops, forgot to change my vote in the heat of the argument, sorry
This situation is truly nerveracking, especially if you are the accused one and have to find valid arguments to help yourself out...
##Unvote
##Vote: Xatalos
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Again @ all town, I advise you to ignore Dittert's DT claim and either vote myself or Xatalos as originally intended for D3 and by Acrofales/HiroPro.
If you think Dittert flipping scum would give weight to me being his teammate and grounds for a lynch D4, then you have your proof right now and can get rid of me instead first. Dittert's post all but incriminates us together, lynch me now then instead of lynching him.
If you think my case against Xatalos has any merit, and can see that what I'm saying about Xatalos bussing Dittert his scum teammate, then vote him instead and when he does flip, you can see his true intentions, which is so much more information than what lynching Dittert would provide for town. If town gets a choice in lynching two almost certain Mafia, town should lynch the Mafia that would give town more information, since we can only lynch one at a time and we are not completely certain of a person's alignment until they flip, unlike Mafia who already know who their enemies are.
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@willz22912: I just noticed that this (everyone voting for either you or Xatalos) is equally as futile as everyone voting for me and Dittert, with one townie on the wrong side that could break the whole vote. But I'm more confident in your reasoning on Xatalos than I am with the assumption that everybody in town will correctly vote for Dittert, so I'm staying on my vote for now.
If I hear enough voices from people I believe are likely town then I could reconsider a mass switch to Dittert. Please make up your minds so we can handle this gracefully in the limited time we have left.
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@ KB
The dynamic of voting hasn't changed, I just put pressure on imallinson and Xatalos to explain why they aren't changing their vote to me now instead of staying on Dittert.
If Dittert gets lynched instead and flips scum, then D4 will be the same thing, the deciding lynch to continue the game between myself and Xatalos. In an effort to stop repeating this cycle because it is distracting town, I am trying to get rid of Xatalos now so we can figure out the other scum.
Remember Xatalos' argument, he wants to lynch Dittert to incriminate me, and was willing to vote me before Dittert fake-claimed, and is willing to lynch me after Dittert, but won't lynch me now?
As it stands, Dittert's vote on KB is a throwaway one and won't decide things (unless he lies and changes it last minute but that can't be helped) That leaves 7 players to decide the vote leaving the votecount right now as:
Dittert(3): Yomi, Xatalos, imallinson
KharadBanar(1): Dittert
Xatalos(2): willz22912, KharadBanar
vonKlaust, funcmode will decide the vote either way, we need both of them to vote for Xatalos since Dittert is still the first person with 3 votes and will be the decided lynch unless we get 4 on Xatalos. Add something else untownlike to Dittert's play, doesn't convince anyone very well with his case against KB, and then proceeds to waste his vote, making it harder for town to lynch successfully
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
@Willz
The problem I'm having with voting for Xatalos is that Dittert is my # 1 scum read due to what I think is a fake DT claim. You are my # 2 and Xatalos is # 3. While I agree that info tomorrow would be nice, actually getting there is better.
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@imallinson: That's not as easy as you think. If we assume both Xatalos and yomi are scum bussing for Dittert, as it stands now they could switch onto me and then be the first to make 3 votes on me so I get lynched. Your play is not as safe for us as it might seem.
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On April 20 2012 04:33 KharadBanar wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, forgot to change my vote in the heat of the argument, sorry
This situation is truly nerveracking, especially if you are the accused one and have to find valid arguments to help yourself out...
##Unvote
##Vote: Xatalos
So you rather believe Willz - whose case against me is completely WIFOM and based on connections - than me and Acrofales, who have both made a good case against Willz (without relying on WIFOM or connections). Unless you're just trying to bait Mafia into voting for me (which is very risky and could possibly lose the game right now), you must be Mafia (considering you were praised for your logic in the previous game).
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I guess it's down to who hits 4 votes first. Seeing as the Dittert thing has lost all steam, I'm going to trust you because your judgement seems sound.
##Unvote
##Vote: Xatalos
Just some forwarning. I'm not going to be around if you decide to change. I've taken some strong painkillers and am now going to pass out. Sorry if this post is a bit short and incoherent.
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Xatalos, Willz's case may be based on WIFOM and connections, but I'm not voting you for some case he just now made and how you are bussing Dittert etc.
I am voting you because I have had a long time to build an opinion of both you and willz believing there is one scum between the two of you, and you have in total acted more scummy than willz. Especially the behaviour of the two of you right now speaks volumes: willz is trying with me to solve the puzzle of how to get the right votes in the right places, and you are accusing me of being scum for it. Do you believe this makes you look less scummy to the rest of town?
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On April 20 2012 05:12 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 04:33 KharadBanar wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, forgot to change my vote in the heat of the argument, sorry
This situation is truly nerveracking, especially if you are the accused one and have to find valid arguments to help yourself out...
##Unvote
##Vote: Xatalos
So you rather believe Willz - whose case against me is completely WIFOM and based on connections - than me and Acrofales, who have both made a good case against Willz (without relying on WIFOM or connections). Unless you're just trying to bait Mafia into voting for me (which is very risky and could possibly lose the game right now), you must be Mafia (considering you were praised for your logic in the previous game).
So, extending your point, if KB is mafia, then Dittert really is DT and your mafia 'read' on him is wrong? Which would mean you're currently voting for a townie to be lynched?
I'm still hesitant, but Willz's theory is making more and more sense to me.
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The Night Post might be slightly delayed. If it is not posted at the deadline please try to refrain from posting game related information, either me or Snarfs will get it up as soon as we can.
Sorry in advance
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On April 20 2012 05:05 imallinson wrote:
@Willz
The problem I'm having with voting for Xatalos is that Dittert is my # 1 scum read due to what I think is a fake DT claim. You are my # 2 and Xatalos is # 3. While I agree that info tomorrow would be nice, actually getting there is better.
On April 20 2012 05:17 imallinson wrote:
I guess it's down to who hits 4 votes first. Seeing as the Dittert thing has lost all steam, I'm going to trust you because your judgement seems sound.
##Unvote
##Vote: Xatalos
Just some forwarning. I'm not going to be around if you decide to change. I've taken some strong painkillers and am now going to pass out. Sorry if this post is a bit short and incoherent.
So basically, he says Dittert is his #1 scumread for his fake-claim and Dittert is also the leading lynch candidate with 3 votes, but now he's willing to switch and support me because my judgement seems sound, except for the fact that imallinson says himself that he thinks I'm more scummier than Xatalos in his mind. I have put imallinson as the 3rd scummiest/member of the scum team in mind (after Xatalos at #1 and Dittert at #2 now for his DT case) Anyone else want to make sense of this, I would like an objective opinion on how this looks to all of you.
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So, the current situation is:
Xatalos (3): Willz, KharadBanar, imallinson
Dittert (2): Xatalos, yomi
KharadBanar (1): Dittert
vonKlaust and funcmode have yet to vote.
I'm guessing Dittert won't change his vote anymore, since he has always been away(?) at the deadline. imallinson also said he would be away at the dealine (with a pretty weird reason).
I'd assume both funcmode and vonKlaust will vote for me in the end (vonKlaust has been ignoring Willz&Dittert and just accusing me with some WIFOM, and funcmode is probably Mafia).
This means that if nothing major happens, the vote will be like this:
Xatalos (5): Willz, KharadBanar, imallinson, vonKlaust, funcmode
Dittert (2): Xatalos, yomi
KharadBanar (1): Dittert
Does this really look like I, Dittert and imallinson are the Mafia team? It looks more like Mafia wants to lynch me now and win the game outright.
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On April 20 2012 05:21 KharadBanar wrote:
Xatalos, Willz's case may be based on WIFOM and connections, but I'm not voting you for some case he just now made and how you are bussing Dittert etc.
I am voting you because I have had a long time to build an opinion of both you and willz believing there is one scum between the two of you, and you have in total acted more scummy than willz. Especially the behaviour of the two of you right now speaks volumes: willz is trying with me to solve the puzzle of how to get the right votes in the right places, and you are accusing me of being scum for it. Do you believe this makes you look less scummy to the rest of town?
Didn't you read my case against Willz and like it? He has been semi-lurking all game, not furthering town agenda except when about to be lynched, and basing his play only on WIFOM, connections and information gathering. Exactly something Mafia would like to do. And even now his reasoning for me being Mafia is just a weird connection theory.
(And I didn't claim you to be Mafia: I just said you have bad logic or are Mafia, and I think the former is the case right now.)
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On April 20 2012 05:32 Xatalos wrote:
So, the current situation is:
Xatalos (3): Willz, KharadBanar, imallinson
Dittert (2): Xatalos, yomi
KharadBanar (1): Dittert
vonKlaust and funcmode have yet to vote.
I'm guessing Dittert won't change his vote anymore, since he has always been away(?) at the deadline. imallinson also said he would be away at the dealine (with a pretty weird reason).
I'd assume both funcmode and vonKlaust will vote for me in the end (vonKlaust has been ignoring Willz&Dittert and just accusing me with some WIFOM, and funcmode is probably Mafia).
This means that if nothing major happens, the vote will be like this:
Xatalos (5): Willz, KharadBanar, imallinson, vonKlaust, funcmode
Dittert (2): Xatalos, yomi
KharadBanar (1): Dittert
Does this really look like I, Dittert and imallinson are the Mafia team? It looks more like Mafia wants to lynch me now and win the game outright.
What else do you suggest, Willz, Dittert and me? I obviously can't possibly agree with that. You keep suspecting me even when I'm one of the few people who could possibly save your ass right now. So, if you want to appeal to me, under the assumption that I'm town, who else do you suggest? How can you back that up?
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All I can say with certainty about willz is that he's always been dead on when it counted.
Now it counts, and he's making much sense right now. I have nothing more to say about that.
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EPT
