|
On March 02 2012 08:24 ghost_403 wrote:
Okay gumshoe, got a question for you.
Let's pretend for a moment that you are a vigilante. It's the end of night 2, and you just know that you are gonna die. Mafia figured it out, and you're as good as dead. You have one shot.
Who do you shoot?
Hard mode: nttea and test are not valid responses.
It comes down to phagga or sloosh, but in the end I'd end going with phagga because I dont like how aggresive he is and how he tries to destroy his opponents regardless of wether they are lynched.
|
wow looking like another no lynch, personally I would prefer me getting lynched(dont really mean it qatol) to there being another no lynch, this is ridicules,preferably lets just lynch a lurker and be done with it, look nttea just voted, hes here hes just not talkingl
|
On March 02 2012 03:11 Alderan wrote:
Your vote is on gumshoe, would you consider switching it to k2hd?
I'm really inclined not to. Why?
I gave consideration to it because I thought DYH had a case and wanted some feedback. It is less than 4 hours to the lynch deadline and still no explanation for his vote. I don't have as strong a read on him as I do gumshoe, so there really isn't reason to switch over unless people can give me reason to.
And what's with the straw man arguments on phagga? Read his filter and it is very clear that he has expressed issues with gumshoe prior to his vote, and his change was his effort to help us consolidate today's lynch.
What the heck nttea? Can you explain yourself before casting votes in secret?
|
I'm going to assume that nttea has a good reason for that, and he'd better spit it out rather quickly. Also, he's not the only one with a ninja vote. XD
|
@gumshoe Over the last day, you have said next to nothing about either of those players, other than you think phagga is aggresive. Tell me why you're so eager to shoot him with your only bullet.
|
On March 02 2012 08:46 ghost_403 wrote:
I'm going to assume that nttea has a good reason for that, and he'd better spit it out rather quickly. Also, he's not the only one with a ninja vote. XD
?? Did I miss something?
|
On March 02 2012 08:40 gumshoe wrote:
##Vote: TestSubject893
|
I've got a party tonight, will be unable to be here for the end of the vote. Is gumshoe the only shot of a lynch we have?
|
On March 02 2012 08:52 ghost_403 wrote:
He did it top of last page
|
Yeah, we're lynching gumshoe. I'll post my reasoning in just a sec.
|
On March 02 2012 08:55 Alderan wrote:
I've got a party tonight, will be unable to be here for the end of the vote. Is gumshoe the only shot of a lynch we have?
As it is it looks like its between k2hd or gumshoe (3 votes on each).
|
On March 02 2012 08:47 ghost_403 wrote:
@gumshoe Over the last day, you have said next to nothing about either of those players, other than you think phagga is aggresive. Tell me why you're so eager to shoot him with your only bullet.
because Ive been in no condition to attack them, I built my case around the person I was surest to lynch,
sloosh is more a gut thing
phagga basicaly said he was ok with a no lynch at the start of the game, saying we should only lynch scum, not lurkers
phagga attacked chocolate earlier and hasnt let up despite the fact that at points chocolate had at least look as if he had improved, he always remaind suspicius of him, which leads me to bilieve it dosent matter to him if players improve he only cares about what mistakes theyve made
I dont like how he contenuesley framed my pressuring zell as fishing for blue, I pressured zell because I dindint like that he gave us that information,
I dont like that he placed his vote on chocolate and then said I was next, because what that basicaly means is that he postions himself perfectley to see a lynch through on either of us no matter what, sure enough as it seems im the more likely lynch things he switches to me. Also by saying im next he basicaly says theres no chance of me bieng town, which isnt a townie out look.
Calls me pathetic ) : hurt my feelings,but also suggests that hes trying to destroy character regardless.
Says he wont switch his vote no matter what and that towns only bet is me.
Seems to be the most aggresive active poster and if I had to kill someone important it would be him.
|
On March 02 2012 08:55 ghost_403 wrote:
Yeah, we're lynching gumshoe. I'll post my reasoning in just a sec.
because I attacked my primary accusers 
|
Or is it because I'm trying to lynch lurkers instead of scum? Because to be honest I don't think I can tackle scum but whateves, give my reads some consideration when/if I flip green k? Gl to town. Sloosh message for you soon.
One thing though, please don't let this be a half measure, if you want to see this through do so, I don't want to hang around town another day so long as everyone's caught tunnel fever.
|
Basically, there are two reasons that I feel comfortable lynching gumshoe today.
1) He asked for it. (Well, he took it back, but more on that in a sec.)
2) He hasn't brought anything new to the table.
The first point is rather weak. While he did ask for it, he ended up taking it back. As I pointed out earlier, playing against your win condition is very, very bad. He offered a not terrible reason for this request, saying he didn't want to play. That's fine, mafia isn't for everyone. phagga (I think it was phagga) offered another explanation: he had managed to dig himself into a hole with the rolefishing (kinda/sorta/not really), and thought that he couldn't figure a way out. Playing scum in my last game, I felt the same way. It's not a bad argument to make. It wasn't enough to sell me though.
The second point is the reason that I'm a lot more comfortable casting my vote on him. Scroll through page 36, and carefully read the dialog. All gumshoe really wants to do is lynch people not playing the game. nttea hadn't posted anything in two days when he made his post against him, showing me that he wasn't really playing. I consider him someone who should be modkilled, not a lurker. Honest mistake, but not the least bit helpful. He had a bit better case against test, but nothing earth shattering.
That's when I asked him this.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 08:24 ghost_403 wrote:
Okay gumshoe, got a question for you.
Let's pretend for a moment that you are a vigilante. It's the end of night 2, and you just know that you are gonna die. Mafia figured it out, and you're as good as dead. You have one shot.
Who do you shoot?
Hard mode: nttea and test are not valid responses.
His response?
On March 02 2012 08:37 gumshoe wrote:
It comes down to phagga or sloosh, but in the end I'd end going with phagga because I dont like how aggresive he is and how he tries to destroy his opponents regardless of wether they are lynched.
This response of his is based on nothing. Since the end of night 1, he has barely mentioned either of these players. There's no reason for this. I asked why. In his post, he has mostly personal reasons (sorry gumshoe  ). I'll respond to his case in another post.
Combine the fact that he dug himself into a hole yesterday, only wants to lynch people who aren't around to defend themselves, and the fact that when pressed he can't provide a proper opinion on a single scummy player in the game, and I you have a good enough reason for me to do the following.
##vote gumshoe
Aside: nttea, if you don't tell me why you voted, I'm lynching you tomorrow.
|
On March 02 2012 08:45 slOosh wrote:
I'm really inclined not to. Why?
I gave consideration to it because I thought DYH had a case and wanted some feedback. It is less than 4 hours to the lynch deadline and still no explanation for his vote. I don't have as strong a read on him as I do gumshoe, so there really isn't reason to switch over unless people can give me reason to.
Oh crap, I forgot I promised to make that case. ugh.... sorry everyone.
I really do see k2hd as a better lynch than gumshoe atm, but as I mentioned before gum is on my list of acceptable lynches for today. The main thing is we don't no-lynch again. I'll try and type up a quick side by side comparison of those two ASAP, but I need to finish the dishes first.
|
I'm going to be in and out. I think k2hd is the one that needs to die tonight, I will be back in an hour to place my final vote.
|
Post by k2hd
I really like the fact that in this post, you bring up the fact that Chocolate made this post, saying that lynching him would give the town info, then bringing up this post, where I say the same thing, only earlier. For some reason, it's good enough to lynch me, but not him.
I had already said after phagga's post, that you had less pressure on you than chocolate, so it was safer for you to make such a claim when the chance of you being lynched was lower.
As for this:
K2hd has still not provided anything of value, under the guise of being a "noob town". Quite frankly I'm sick of responses like this. WE'RE ALL NOOBS.... hence the title of this game. Read filters and make cases. I say from this point forward we stop accepting responses like this.
His vote is currently on Ghost_403. His reasons:
- He thinks Chocolate is town.
- Ghost voted for Chocolate.
- Ghost made a slightly suspicious post (a point that I actually brought up initially)
- Therefore Ghost is scum.
What? It doesn't work like that.
##vote K2hd
I'd rather you not devalue my post like this. I voted for ghost because of his day 1 posting, AND his recent interactions with phagga concerning ghost. You may argue that what I said about day 1 was already covered, but not day 2 posts. I have read filters, and my vote stays on ghost. I'm willing to take the chance that gumshoe flips red and I look even more suspicious than I already do, but I do not think he is scum.
Phagga
+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 01:44 phagga wrote:Generally: I don't care if this is anyones first game on TL Mafia. This is a newbie game, noone has a lot of experience with TL Mafia. This game is here to learn, so please stop making excuses like that. I have already skipped several paragraphs who start with that, and I will continue to skip them in the future. DoYouHas: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 14:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Alright people, this is getting a little ridiculous. We can't let this thread stagnate midday.
Ghost and Phagga, do you agree with how I handled NightFury? No, I don't agree. You accused him of not generating content. He agrees, but then only writes an excuse, and you are already giving him a free pass. Now there is no more pressure on him to generate real content, which is what would have given us more information on him. You left him of the hook way to early. Instead, I would have liked to see you call him out on his confession of not generating content, and pressure him more at least until he starts generating content. I noticed several times that people don't want to pressure someone anymore after the target went from scummy to towny. Why not? If you already started, pressure some more. Townies don't need to be afraid to get pressured. After all, they have no reason to lie, and if they write what they think and observe, than they have nothing to fear. And it will generate more information which will enable more people to judge better if someone is town or not. But if you let Nightfury of the hook like that, and nightfury gets lynched anyway and flips red, I will immediatly get suspicious about your reluctance to pressure him after making a case on him. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 14:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Who is your greatest suspicion right now?
- Chocolate - Gumshoe - Alderan k2hd: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 22:16 k2hd wrote:Show nested quote +I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game. Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first. This is just not true. On the first day, my vote was on Chocolate the whole day. After this vote + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2012 07:36 NightFury wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Chocolate there were 5 votes on Chocolate for roughly 4 hours, with 8 votes he would have gotten lynched. I wrote the following two posts during those 3 hours: + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2012 08:36 phagga wrote:
So, folks, I will be offline for the night in about 20 minutes. So far my vote stays on Chocolate. I have read a few interesting things about others (specially steveling), but so far nothing could convince me to switch my vote to another person. I still think Chocolate is our best lynch. On February 28 2012 10:00 phagga wrote:
I'm off to bed now. My vote stays on chocolate. That was 2 hours before the deadline. There was still the possibility that he would get lynched. 40 minutes before the deadline JekyllAndHyde unvoted Chocolate. Chocolate: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 20:58 phagga wrote:To k2hd: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote:I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:26 Chocolate wrote:
You do realize that is basically a vote swing, which you state is bad? Stand by your words. If I get lynched we will get good info on alderan, gum, dyh, sloosh, Phagga, and night. Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him? 1Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghostI currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. 2 He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate 3, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they areGhost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. 1bI also do not trust this post made by ghost: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:03 ghost_403 wrote:
You see, this is how I see it.
We could vote to lynch Igabod. That's not even really a bad idea. He's been lurking hardcore. Kinda scummy if you ask me. And I don't like scummy. However, his flip doesn't tell us anything. Maybe, we'll get lucky and lynch a scum. Odds are about, what, 28%? You can do worse than that.
Other option: You lynch either me or chocolate. I think it's pretty well established, one of the two of us is scum. If whoever gets lynched flips red, awesome! Lynched a scum! If not, guess who the first person on the chopping block is tomorrow. The guy who wasn't lynched. Either way, going into day 3, the town is down one scum. Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. You are aware that later in your post at 1b you quote ghost_403 who wrote against a vote switch away from him and chocolate, and say that that post is a reason you don't trust ghost_403? This is contradictory. 2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that.
Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do?
- Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you
- let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target
I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
Nothing Chocolate said so far convinced me that he is not scum. That's why I still want him lynched.3 I am aware that I am prone to tunneling Chocolate, and I am currently reading through several filters (again) to give an update on who else I think is fishy. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 21:50 Chocolate wrote:
Don't have much time to post but my style last game was very passive and lurky, k2hd. Phagga 1b is a good point, 2 is looking pretty wifom, and I'm glad to hear about 3.
K2 I'm really glad to see you posting. Keep it up I disagree. Scum does not want to be in the spotlight. People in the spotlight get analyzed more, and scum has to play a role / lie to look townie, so the chance that people will reveal their true role is higher. You will not often find scum that is going to play aggresively, and most of the time they won't get far with it because they have to hide too much.
I think there's some confusion here, I'm talking about the vote count and low chance of mislynching chocolate on day 2, and how hard you were STILL pushing chocolate up until now, with the change to gumshoe. Notice I typed in the present tense in that post.
|
On March 02 2012 09:14 ghost_403 wrote:Basically, there are two reasons that I feel comfortable lynching gumshoe today. 1) He asked for it. (Well, he took it back, but more on that in a sec.) 2) He hasn't brought anything new to the table. The first point is rather weak. While he did ask for it, he ended up taking it back. As I pointed out earlier, playing against your win condition is very, very bad. He offered a not terrible reason for this request, saying he didn't want to play. That's fine, mafia isn't for everyone. phagga (I think it was phagga) offered another explanation: he had managed to dig himself into a hole with the rolefishing (kinda/sorta/not really), and thought that he couldn't figure a way out. Playing scum in my last game, I felt the same way. It's not a bad argument to make. It wasn't enough to sell me though. The second point is the reason that I'm a lot more comfortable casting my vote on him. Scroll through page 36, and carefully read the dialog. All gumshoe really wants to do is lynch people not playing the game. nttea hadn't posted anything in two days when he made his post against him, showing me that he wasn't really playing. I consider him someone who should be modkilled, not a lurker. Honest mistake, but not the least bit helpful. He had a bit better case against test, but nothing earth shattering. That's when I asked him this. + Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 08:24 ghost_403 wrote:
Okay gumshoe, got a question for you.
Let's pretend for a moment that you are a vigilante. It's the end of night 2, and you just know that you are gonna die. Mafia figured it out, and you're as good as dead. You have one shot.
Who do you shoot?
Hard mode: nttea and test are not valid responses. His response? Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:37 gumshoe wrote:
It comes down to phagga or sloosh, but in the end I'd end going with phagga because I dont like how aggresive he is and how he tries to destroy his opponents regardless of wether they are lynched.
This response of his is based on nothing. Since the end of night 1, he has barely mentioned either of these players. There's no reason for this. I asked why. In his post, he has mostly personal reasons (sorry gumshoe ). I'll respond to his case in another post. Combine the fact that he dug himself into a hole yesterday, only wants to lynch people who aren't around to defend themselves, and the fact that when pressed he can't provide a proper opinion on a single scummy player in the game, and I you have a good enough reason for me to do the following. ##vote gumshoeAside: nttea, if you don't tell me why you voted, I'm lynching you tomorrow.
You should be sorry ghost, but its not because your right
|
+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 09:07 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 08:47 ghost_403 wrote:
@gumshoe Over the last day, you have said next to nothing about either of those players, other than you think phagga is aggresive. Tell me why you're so eager to shoot him with your only bullet. 1because Ive been in no condition to attack them, I built my case around the person I was surest to lynch, sloosh is more a gut thing phagga basicaly said he was ok with a no lynch at the start of the game, saying we should only lynch scum, not lurkers 2phagga attacked chocolate earlier and hasnt let up despite the fact that at points chocolate had at least look as if he had improved, he always remaind suspicius of him, which leads me to bilieve it dosent matter to him if players improve he only cares about what mistakes theyve made 3I dont like how he contenuesley framed my pressuring zell as fishing for blue, I pressured zell because I dindint like that he gave us that information, 4I dont like that he placed his vote on chocolate and then said I was next, because what that basicaly means is that he postions himself perfectley to see a lynch through on either of us no matter what, sure enough as it seems im the more likely lynch things he switches to me. Also by saying im next he basicaly says theres no chance of me bieng town, which isnt a townie out look. 5Calls me pathetic ) : hurt my feelings,but also suggests that hes trying to destroy character regardless. Says he wont switch his vote no matter what and that towns only bet is me. 6Seems to be the most aggresive active poster and if I had to kill someone important it would be him.
1 Either bad play or desperation. I would expect a good town player to point out scummy play when they see it, not pretend that it was there all along when pressed. Unfortunately, bad play and scummy play are indistiguishable.
2 That means that phagga either is a jerk, or really thinks that Chocolate is scum. An opinion I happen to share.
3 That was (probably) very useful information, and I'm glad zelblade shared that. Of course, we can't confirm that the mafia has a roleblock until zelblade flips or a lot of people come forward, but still good info. Again, bad town play or scummy play on your part.
4 Again, that means he probably thinks you're scum. I would assume that he would change his mind if presented with a good argument made by you that you're town.
5 Sorry, that was a bit of a rude thing to do on his part
6 Lynching an active player who you're not sure is scum is a bad idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
