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Now for who we should vote for....
K2hd has still not provided anything of value, under the guise of being a "noob town". Quite frankly I'm sick of responses like this. WE'RE ALL NOOBS.... hence the title of this game. Read filters and make cases. I say from this point forward we stop accepting responses like this.
His vote is currently on Ghost_403. His reasons:
- He thinks Chocolate is town.
- Ghost voted for Chocolate.
- Ghost made a slightly suspicious post (a point that I actually brought up initially)
- Therefore Ghost is scum.
What? It doesn't work like that.
##vote K2hd
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On March 02 2012 02:50 Alderan wrote:Ok guys, sorry about the absence, was going to take the afternoon off after my last post but then I got caught up with some GF shit all night last night. Let's see what we got here: I think I can address all of Sloosh and Jekyll's worries about me in one sentence: A person can have more than one case active at a time, especially when the town is as inactive as this one.Look, I posted a couple cases of people I find scummy at the end of the night/beginning of the day period to see what everyone thinks about the cases. Sloosh I used to think you were just playing poorly (while ridiculing my play nonetheless) but now I realize you are just misleading the town to cast suspicion on me. Show nested quote +Alderan puts up a case against k2hd, but as Hyde points out he drops case and suspects Janaan. I did not drop anything, I'm suspicious of multiple people, ya know, because there are more than one scum. Then you had this post: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 15:52 slOosh wrote:
Alright, gotta sleep now. DYH I don't think right now holding off too much on your case is the best choice.
Right now our votes are spread between 4 suspects, and it is critical that we rally and focus on the best possible choice. It could be the case that more than 1 of them are mafia, but even then we should be unified in which one to lynch.
Thinking about our friends in alternate timezones, they may not be able to read your case and we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily and I think in this situation a soft deadline would also be helpful.
But I trust your judgement - we need content from everyone and not just a few of us.
I just want us to be mindful of the situation that we are in. What in the hell does that even mean? Again you continue to try to discredit my name, my cases, and my contributions for seemingly no reason. You already admit that you don't find me as suspicious as you originally did with your first case, so why the blatant cut down.
Its a really big jump to say that my general agreement of Hyde's case on you is intentionally misleading the town to cast suspicion on you. I agree with the points and lean mafia on you - how is openly expressing my stance misleading?
And no I'm not discrediting your name in the second quote. Read the whole post in context. We are dangerously close to the lynch deadline with votes spread among multiple people, and I'm emphasizing the need to rally and make a decision. The bolded part is because I think some people (especially the newer ones) are timid and want to hear all the voices and cases out in the open and discussed, but I'm being realistic and pointing out that time is not a luxury.
It's not a blatant cut down and I think you are starting to take everything I say about you personally. Please look objectively.
Please read that second paragraph everyone. We need consensus or we will be driven to no lynch again. This cannot be.
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Hyde's case COMPLETELY revolved around me "dropping cases" which was clearly not the situation. I made two cases during the night period. That's it.
Please look objectively?
"we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily".... There is only one way to take this sentence, regardless of the fluff you just posted above.
I understand we need more contributions, and we need to come to a come to consensus which is why I'm dropping this fight with you.
Your vote is on gumshoe, would you consider switching it to k2hd?
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On March 02 2012 03:03 slOosh wrote:
And no I'm not discrediting your name in the second quote. Read the whole post in context. We are dangerously close to the lynch deadline with votes spread among multiple people, and I'm emphasizing the need to rally and make a decision. The bolded part is because I think some people (especially the newer ones) are timid and want to hear all the voices and cases out in the open and discussed, but I'm being realistic and pointing out that time is not a luxury.
I agree. We have votes on 5 different people at the moment. I will switch my vote to gumshoe now.
Vote gumshoe
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We are over the soft deadline of 8 hours, and only 7 of 13 people have voted. Disappointing.
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There's the same 5-7 of us circle jerking while the rest lurk. There's only so much we can do if they don't post.
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Seeing as lurking is the theme of this game I've conducted an analysis of this games biggest lurker!
To start heres some fun fact, in his grand total of 11 posts test has stated that he is a newb on five diffrent occaisons, each time with more emphasis than the last.
+ Show Spoiler +This is my first online game of mafia, but I've played some in person
Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play
Sorry if this is a really newbie question, but what should we be trying to accomplish during this night phase?
I think you are misunderstanding the rules. (Or I am, lol.)
Is he claiming blue? I don't think he is. Everybody can calm down. (I think. I an after all the newbiest one here it seems, so I may be eating these words.)
The second interesting thing is that test has not said one original thing, period, everything he's commented on has either been irrelevant or has been stated by someone else first.
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accidenttal early post my bad
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ignore till finished! (been working on this awhile)
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A while back I posted this: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 06:26 DoYouHas wrote:
I'm digging through filters atm, but something I want to throw out there while I'm working on cases is a general view on how yesterday developed. When I look at yesterday, I see a lot of parallels between it and SNMM7. The main things being that there were a few cases that did not convince a majority, general confusion going into the deadline, and the threat of a no-lynch (in our case the threat became real).
In a very general sense I think that we can draw a few bits of information out of this. The first is that it is pretty safe to assume that the mafia spread their votes over multiple people. This was something Alderan made a point of when he was scum in SNMM7. And it makes sense, without an overwhelming bandwagon, of course scum are going to split their votes up.
The second thing is that because we were so desperate for cases and content to debate over, I bet that there are at least 2 mafia that spent most of day1 just skating by. Either lurking, playing very safe, or following others' lead.
Lastly, I'm looking for players who were trying to nudge others into action. With how yesterday developed I think that just like SNMM7, the town was often heading in the wrong direction. Because of this, I think that at least a few of the mafia spent their time nudging townies further down the path of their incorrect reads.
It is time we provide large, convincing cases against people. Cases that you feel passionate about, and will create real debate. Lets go to work people.
I am particularly interested in Alderan's thoughts on what I said. If I am right and yesterday developed similarly to SNMM7, then Alderan should be able to give us an insider's perspective on scum, as well as identify 2-3 scum who are following a similar pattern to what they did in SNMM7. So Alderan, what do you think?
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EBWOP: So should zelblade.
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On March 02 2012 04:53 DoYouHas wrote:
EBWOP: So should zelblade.
If our mafia last game was looking at the situation last night, we would have split the votes equally, definitely no more than 2 on the same person so as to cut losses if some shit hit the fan. I would have set it up where it was 2 maybe on Chocolate (assuming he's town), one on igadob (assuming he's town) and one on a random other.
I think the wrench in things when comparing it to last game is the orientation of igadob. Because he was a lurker, and didn't even vote, it's highly possible he was just a scum inactive player, and because we have heard next to nothing from his replacement there's still no way to tell. If this was the case they would make sure to save igadob's life if at all possible because a replacement was almost guaranteed. In this situation I would put one on igadob and the rest on his closest competitor, who at the time was Chocolate.
As scum, I would not have wanted any of our cases to have been one of the one's leading the lynch on the first day (I know mine against Dimmuklok was, but I've already said I did not want him to get lynched at all). So that being said everyone would post soft arguments and coast into the first night.
The Day 2 was about starting casting suspicion, but again, you don't want to come out real strong against someone and them flip green. So you come out hard against people, but not necessarily put a vote on, or actually try to get them lynched.
I did this with Sloosh last game, I believe he might be doing this to me now. There were two lurkers on our team through day 2, and I would expect that to be fairly similar here. Then we had semi active noob scum, Steveling, who reminds me of K2hd from this game.
It's all WIFOM'y, nothing solid, but I certainly keep how our scum played in the back of my mind, as this game does seem to be playing out similarly.
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Gumshoe, I'm anxious to hear your case, haven't heard from you in some time.
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I'm going to post lynch targets with reasoning. Won't be too active tonight until around 8 EST. 1st is my primary goal, rest in no particular order
1. nttea- HE HAS POSTED 3 TIMES. First being about how he read through the thread and his thoughts on it, agrees with sloosh, cast suspicion on alderan. Second asking a default lynch on someone (stifles posting dramatically if everyone agrees to lynch one person at the outset of the day). third post defending himself with noobishness, still wants a default lynch because he didn't think we had any cases. If he doesn't get modkilled and is voted on by others my vote stays on him.
## vote: nttea
2. Nightfury- still suspicious of him. see my previous analysis
3.gumshoe- moment he comes under fire he says he's going to stop posting as much. Seemed to be blue fishing and was trying to deduce something from night actions (bad idea).
4. Phagga- tunnel visioning me, has since stopped but still on my radar
5. Alderan- not too sure, drove my case but near the end didn't want me to get lynched. Maybe scum not trying to look guilty?
6. k2hd- don't want him lynched, but will vote for him only if necessary. I generally agreed with his most recent analysis post. Last resort
7. ghost- not sure but seems to be in collusion with phagga maybe??
I feel confident I have at least 2-3 of 4 scum on this list.
Dreamflower, the player list w/ filters is messed up on page 1 (test subject's)
Final point for now is that I'm starting to find it a bit odd that DoYouHas has been agreeing with nearly every thing I said. Maybe trying to buddy me?
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Thanks for pointing out TestSubject's filter link. It's been fixed now.
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On March 02 2012 04:39 gumshoe wrote:Seeing as lurking is the theme of this game I've conducted an analysis of this games biggest lurker! To start heres some fun fact, in his grand total of 11 posts test has stated that he is a newb on five diffrent occaisons, each time with more emphasis than the last. + Show Spoiler +This is my first online game of mafia, but I've played some in person
Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play
Sorry if this is a really newbie question, but what should we be trying to accomplish during this night phase?
I think you are misunderstanding the rules. (Or I am, lol.)
Is he claiming blue? I don't think he is. Everybody can calm down. (I think. I an after all the newbiest one here it seems, so I may be eating these words.) The second interesting thing is that test has not said one original thing, period, everything he's commented on has either been irrelevant or has been stated by someone else first.
First of all, calling be the game's biggest lurker is blatantly untrue. nttea has only 3 posts, and has not posted reads, which I have. When you consider the amount of time I've been in the game (missing the first 60 or so hours), my posts per play time is comparable to JekyllAndHyde, phagga, NightFury, slOosh and k2hd.
Concerning my statements about my inexperience: I legitimately believe that I am the newbiest player in this game. I have never played online before, which seemingly most other players have, and the "meta-game" of the people I've played live with before seems entirely different than it is in this game, almost certainly because of the increased length of days and nights. I've been having a really hard time analyzing any of this, because all of the things I knew before and I thought might apply to this game do not. I added those statements in hope that if I was do something wrong, people would correct and help me.
Naturally, my difficulty analyzing the game has led me to not be able to come to many strong conclusions. Additionally, my joining the game late led to much of what I had to say already being said, as much of my time was spend on earlier content that had already been discussed.
Concerning my vote today:
Like I stated earlier, my early instinct was to vote for gumshoe, and despite good reasons brought up since then to vote for k2hd, gumshoe's lack of defense for his apparent blue-fishing have caused my opinion to stay the same. Additionally, although I had already made up my mind, his "analysis" of me began with false claims and harshly negative tone that were seemingly only an attempt to unfairly defame me.
##Vote: gumshoe
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I missed his ignore til finished thing :/ Oh well, I guess I'll address it when he posts it.
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On March 02 2012 06:41 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 04:39 gumshoe wrote:Seeing as lurking is the theme of this game I've conducted an analysis of this games biggest lurker! To start heres some fun fact, in his grand total of 11 posts test has stated that he is a newb on five diffrent occaisons, each time with more emphasis than the last. + Show Spoiler +This is my first online game of mafia, but I've played some in person
Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play
Sorry if this is a really newbie question, but what should we be trying to accomplish during this night phase?
I think you are misunderstanding the rules. (Or I am, lol.)
Is he claiming blue? I don't think he is. Everybody can calm down. (I think. I an after all the newbiest one here it seems, so I may be eating these words.) The second interesting thing is that test has not said one original thing, period, everything he's commented on has either been irrelevant or has been stated by someone else first. First of all, calling be the game's biggest lurker is blatantly untrue. nttea has only 3 posts, and has not posted reads, which I have. When you consider the amount of time I've been in the game (missing the first 60 or so hours), my posts per play time is comparable to JekyllAndHyde, phagga, NightFury, slOosh and k2hd. Concerning my statements about my inexperience: I legitimately believe that I am the newbiest player in this game. I have never played online before, which seemingly most other players have, and the "meta-game" of the people I've played live with before seems entirely different than it is in this game, almost certainly because of the increased length of days and nights. I've been having a really hard time analyzing any of this, because all of the things I knew before and I thought might apply to this game do not. I added those statements in hope that if I was do something wrong, people would correct and help me. Naturally, my difficulty analyzing the game has led me to not be able to come to many strong conclusions. Additionally, my joining the game late led to much of what I had to say already being said, as much of my time was spend on earlier content that had already been discussed.
Concerning my vote today: Like I stated earlier, my early instinct was to vote for gumshoe, and despite good reasons brought up since then to vote for k2hd, gumshoe's lack of defense for his apparent blue-fishing have caused my opinion to stay the same. Additionally, although I had already made up my mind, his "analysis" of me began with false claims and harshly negative tone that were seemingly only an attempt to unfairly defame me. ##Vote: gumshoe
I'm not done yet >-< man hate space buttons.
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Seeing as lurking is the theme of this game I've conducted an analysis of this games second biggest lurker(not much to read out of nttea)!
To start heres some fun facts, in his grand total of 11 posts test has stated that he is a newb on five diffrent occaisons, each time with more emphasis than the last.
+ Show Spoiler +This is my first online game of mafia, but I've played some in person
Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play
Sorry if this is a really newbie question, but what should we be trying to accomplish during this night phase?
I think you are misunderstanding the rules. (Or I am, lol.)
Is he claiming blue? I don't think he is. Everybody can calm down. (I think. I an after all the newbiest one here it seems, so I may be eating these words.)
The second interesting thing is that test has not said one original thing, period, everything he's commented on has either been irrelevant or has been stated by someone else first. I will now laboriously set out to prove this, post by post( not too difficult though post count considered).
1)+ Show Spoiler +Hey guys!
As you know, I'm replacing Steveling. This is my first online game of mafia, but I've played some in person. I'm still catching up on the thread (a little over half way through right now). I'll be up to speed and in the discussion a few hours from now.
Not much here, just letting us know hes in the game, his next post comes roughly four hours later.
2) Heres his only real notable post, it deserves some analysis so here we go!+ Show Spoiler +Ok guys, I've caught up on the thread now. Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play. Anyway, on to my thoughts..
So a few lines of him saying hes new and pretty much that we shouldn't take his opinion seriously.
+ Show Spoiler +Thoughts on Day 1 Voting
I was torn between thinking that all of the push to vote igabod was useless and counter-productive, and thinking that it was a good alternative in to a no lynch in a spot where we didn't have a lot of information. When I had only read up to the end of Day 1, I was definitely suspicious of Chocolate, but knew his case was far from 100%. As such, I want to look back and say a no lynch was clearly the right move, but if I had had to cast a vote, it probably would have been for Chocolate, since he seemed to be the most likely to be scum at that point in time.
This opening post is fascinating because he really says absolutely nothing while discussing a very important topic, he says he's torn about the iga switch and hes not sure whether it was right or wrong and then dosent make any conclusions, he just says he's thought about it, then he says that we should've lynched chocolate, so clearly it was the wrong decicion right? But he never makes this conclusion, he seems to say that what happened yesterday was ok but today we gotta get the job done k guys? Also it naturally follows that accusing choc is the easiest decision he can possibly make. Moving on to his suspicions.
+ Show Spoiler +
Current Reads
+ Show Spoiler +
Alderan - He is definitely the player I'm most suspicious of right now. In addition to the other points mentioned in the recent cases against him, his attempts to get players to move from igabod to steveling make me think he has some information about igabod that everyone else doesn't.
He makes it sound like the point about alderaan making the switch to steve is his point, its not, DYH and sloosh brought it up long ago, yet test specifically tries to make the point his own, basically his suspicions of alderaan are founded on other peoples suspicions, he is in essence bandwagoning a player who looks likely to be lynched without providing his own reasons.
+ Show Spoiler +nttea (igabod) - I really wish I had more information here. Right now its basically a null read, but if Alderan flips red, my suspicion of him goes up drastically.
This is incredibly interesting, the exact opposite in fact of my earlier reasonings, earlier I grew suspicious of sloosh and felt that if I could lynch a lesser player with ties to sloosh I could ascertain his alignment, here test is suggesting the opposite, he says if we lynch an active player we can figure out a lesser ones alignment, why risk an active player in a game with so few commuters? Why not lynch nttea to get a grip on alderaan's alignment?
Well the answer is a fascinating one if test is scum, because if he knows alderaan's town and lynches him, according to his reasoning applied backwards that should absolve nttea right? The reason he dosen't want to lynch nttea first is because nttea is scum, and if alderaan flips green before nttea flips red than nttea gets a pass, according to this post at least, this coupled with nttea's later proposition to default lynch alderaan is suspicius enough to warrant a case on one of them I would think, but neither have been brought to light, I will adress why I think that is the case later.
Next part!
+ Show Spoiler +Janaan - Someone suspicious, but he seems to be getting a decent amount of scrutiny right now, so I'm confident we'll have the information we need before the next lynch comes around. I think he also looks scummier if Alderan turns out to be mafia.
Did you know that test like alderaan was both suspected and suspicious by and of janaan? Earlier we wondered why janaan would kill his own suspect, what if it wasn't alderaan killing his own suspect, what if it was the other guy who had barely given and received pressure from janaan that ordered a hit that would seem only relevant to alderaan? This is a brilliant move regardless of wether or not town thinks alderaan did or didnt do it, because either way the wifome will only ever be relevant to Alderaan, because hes in the spot light, not test. This has nothing to do with wifome, its just a fact that if a guy dies you suspect his nemesis before you suspect his quarrelsome neighbour. Alderaan is test's cover. Also in case its relevant janaan had been called out long ago for flying under the radar by four face and a few other people, this idea is not his own. Also another thing, he says that if alderaan flips janaan looks scummy, why? Alderaan is pressuring janaan, wheres this connection? It really just sounds to me as if test is just trying to do everything in his power to get janaan lynched.
next!
+ Show Spoiler +Chocolate - As has been noted, he's been pretty aggressive and someone willing to target anyone. This makes me want to keep an eye on him.
Again another useless post, just says other people have found him suspicious and thats why he finds him suspicious.
g+ Show Spoiler +umshoe - For as active as he has been he hasn't really said that much meaningful. I think he probably deserves more scrutiny than he has gotten, although I'm far from ready to lynch him.
wont comment, I'm biased, will say though that alderaan suggested a case on me long before test did for these exact reasons.
next!
+ Show Spoiler +sloosh - His early inactivity had me suspicious, but I'm back to a null read on him after his posts lately.
Again nothing new, just stating the obvius, wont comment on any alliances or anything because once again I am biased twoards sloosh.
+ Show Spoiler +zelblade (FourFace) - I feel like he may have been put in a hard spot here. FF's posts seemed pro-town to me, but I don't know how much to trust that info given the crazy/troll nature. I'm definitely leaning townie on him, but new info could change my opinion quickly.
pro town is a stretch, basically he's defending a whole new player on the basis of the old players insanity, still though by saying new information can change my opinion he leaves himself safe in case zell is brought under scrutiny.
+ Show Spoiler +
I wish I had more information on: JekyllAndHyde, phagga, k2hd
Some of these are time zone/RL issues, but the jury is still out on these 3 for me. I could definitely still go either way.
Nothing to note really.
+ Show Spoiler +Basically neutral reads: DoYouHas, NightFury, ghost_403
Early suspicions of ghost seemed to get cleared up pretty well. I'm not ready to call pro-town on anyone this early, but these three are on the right track.
again not much to say, he doesn't provide reasoning for why these guys are ok, just says they are.
Next post! one minute later.
3) + Show Spoiler +P.S. Everytime I seem someone use the term WIFOM I can't help but laugh as I recall that scene from The Princess Bride .
fluff
4) this post comes 3 hours later.
+ Show Spoiler +
Sorry if this is a really newbie question, but what should we be trying to accomplish during this night phase? I want to contribute, but I feel a bit directionless right now. I feel like I should be making a case, but I can't come up with a lot that's conclusive. Is it just a waiting game until we see the results of the night actions and then work from there?
This is an interesting post, two possibilities.
a) Test is town: Hes just a newb struggling to contribute.
b) Test is scum: Hes trying to justify his inactivity with his growing newbie persona and perhaps trying to suggest that there is no alternative to inactivity for the moment.
Again nothing of note here, he has contributed absolutely no opinions in so far.
Next post 5)
+ Show Spoiler +1. I think that Chocolate seemed the most scummy then, not that it was enough to thoroughly convince me he was 100% red. I'd still say he's scummy, but I think there are enough people after him right now that by the time the next vote rolls around we'll have a lot of conclusions drawn about him to work from.
2. It just seems like you are posting enough to get by without being considered as a lurker, and not really saying anything incredibly bold. Very under-the-radar kind of play. As far as not pressuring, I don't feel confident enough in any of these reads to act without interacting a little more with the involved parties first. Despite having read everything, I haven't actually interacted with anyone in a back-and-forth manner yet. We'll see how I feel about these reads after I'm actively involved in the discussions.
3. Well, Alderan seems to keep mentioning you as someone he is suspicious of without really going too hard. It just gave me a vibe of him trying to appear hard on you without actually being. Honestly after looking at it more closely, I'm not as confident about it anymore; its more of a hunch than anything.
4. I'm feeling like phagga is pretty pro-town, but the hydra thing for JekyllAndHyde and throwing me off I think. Still can't tell you how I feel about him/them.
Like I mention in 2, those were more of initial reads, I'm sure I'll change my mind on some things eventually. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Heres his interaction with janaan,
His first comment on chocolate is nothing, he just says he looks scummy and by tomorrow people will have reasons that he looks scummy, but of course I'm not sure about chocolate he says, because only scum are sure right test?
His next comment towards janaan is that he says he feels janaan has just been trying to be under the radar, Janaan has posted as much as the next guy could in this stagnant game, so I find his suspicion unfounded, especially because janaan actually flipped town, its also interesting here that test once again feels compelled to justify his inactivity by saying he hasn't had enough back and forth with other players to start pressuring, you get back and forth by pressuring, by asking questions, neither of which has test bothered to do then or since.
It's also interesting that the behaviur test has suggested janaan is exibiting(just barely flying under the radar) is the typical behaviour of a blue why would you pressure someone as town if you they exhibited blue behaviur? That can only spell disaster for said blue, the only time its recommended is if you are scum trying to bait said blue into revealing his alignment.
The next part we see that phagga has gone from post more/null to pro town, what? How? When did this occur? He quickly moves on and says he cant bother to read jeckyl and hyde because they are a hydra, again he leaves the heavy lifting to us.
Finally he says that his reads don't mean anything and are want to change to suit his needs, conviction is a townie mark, test has none.
His 6th 7th and 8th and 9th posts happen around the same time frame three hours later, all of them are in critique of me for pressuring zell, not much to note as wrong for that, just on thing struck me as odd in this whole exchange
Zell says, + Show Spoiler +Test so good at understanding my posts <3
Umm this is the first time the two of you have interacted,youve never played with test before, yet you sound grateful here, your warmer to test in this one sentence than you have been to anyone this whole game, just seemed odd to me but its not much to go on I admit.
His 10th post involves him agreeing with other people and saying I am the best lynch suspect,
his 11th is much the same.
Why has there not been a case put out against the second biggest lurker available? A lurker who does not provide his own opinions continually proclaims himself a humble newb and tunnels the likeliest suspects? This is deeply worrying for me, I feel that if town was in control of this game test's name would've come up by now, yet somehow it hasnt.
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My girlfriend just called and I need to go. I'll address your post when I get back.
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EPT
