EPTNewbie Mini Mafia IV - Page 38
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
 it sucks when you get treated like scum because you act like scum but don't get the powers.Also you said yourself the case against phagga is weak which is why I haven't attacked him till now, hopefully it'll get stronger when/if I flip green. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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NightFury
Canada114 Posts
On March 02 2012 06:23 Chocolate wrote: 2. Nightfury- still suspicious of him. see my previous analysis @Chocolate I know you still think I'm suspicious, but please elaborate on why. I replied to your case and asked if you had anything further you wanted to bring up. I'm interested if there's anything else you'd like to add. Otherwise, I'm beginning to think this is another empty accusation of yours. On March 01 2012 09:54 gumshoe wrote: The real reason I defend alderaan? because I think hes an active poster and i dont think he would lynch his primary suspect, also his style is totally different from last game where his mafia worked so well(and he was mafia last game so I could just be naive thinking he's town this time ) : I defend him because I think there are way worse players, lurkers finger pointers, people who wifom(like yours truly) and Alderaan seems to legitimately contribute. One thing I will say is that my lack of suspicion is a personal decision, if I flip green please don't consider him absolved of any of your qualms, an efficient town works in all directions, aldraan just dosent happen to be in mine, there are 4 mafia after all. I also don't like how much he's being tunneled and attacked by people who haven't provided there own cases on him, but more on that soon. I really appreciate you actually asking me a question instead of just accusing me night fury ( : @gumshoe Thank you for the reply. I can see where you're coming from on Alderan's play itself. However, a personal reason for your lack of suspicion isn't valid. The only way I can see you trusting him from a non-personal standpoint is that you know something we don't. ##Vote: gumshoe I'm going to sift through filters now. Maybe I'll find something. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
NF I will post a better reasoning at home but basically I thought the fact that you dropped ghost because he defended himself but not me was scummy. Especially considering his short post. You talked about this but I still think it's scummy. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
However, the reason I think k2hd is the better choice for us to lynch today is because gumshoe's play does not look planned or careful, it does not look like he is playing to an agenda. I accept the fact that gumshoe has a certain style, and it is entirely possible that he is using that to mask his scum play. That is why I'm willing to vote for him if it comes down to it. But the gumshoe of this game looks a lot like the gumshoe of SNMM7. I don't see him as acting particularly anti-town with the exception of dealing with zelblade and asking for a replacement. k2hd on the other hand makes a few posts every so often. They do have the sense of being planned and careful. He fits the profile for me of someone who is staying off the radar, while spreading lots of weak suspicion around. I also really don't like how he treated his vote in this post + Show Spoiler + On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote: Right then. First off, FourFace. His posts sound like a town player who is very enthusiastic about playing things his way, and having fun with his writing style, hence the kooky posting, so I agree that we should take the heat off of him just for now... As for chocolate and ghost, I must say I have my suspicions regarding them as well. I'm not going to quote too much because I think others have done enough of that already while I've been away. Ghost seems VERY insistent on lynching. He's even against using FOS and wants to straight out lynch anyone he considers suspicious, as some have already pointed out. Then, when FourFace places a vote on jekyl just to "pressure" them, ghost posts this: It doesn't really say much about WHY FourFace is doing it wrong, and conveniently places another vote on jekyl. Then, FourFace presents himself as a better, and more possible target for a mislynch. Ghost accuses FourFace of scummy/crazy play, and it seems to me like he is out to get the easy mislynch again. Does he actually just think that FourFace is playing a very weird and seemingly nonsensical style? Maybe, but he has yet to unvote FourFace in the voting thread. Now for chocolate. I don't have as much to go on for chocolate aside from what's already been said, but I think it's interesting that he is voting for FourFace with ghost as well, perhaps hoping to start some sort of bandwagon? This part of his post: I'm going to vote for you for the time being because that was really weird. If you sufficiently explain yourself and start to make sense I will unvote you. Seems like a way of joining ghost in starting the bandwagon, while at the same time giving him the option of pulling out if the bandwagoning fails. I'm just not sure why you would actually put your vote into the voting thread at this stage, instead of just posting the thought and leaving it at that till FourFace actually DID post more so he could decide. To be fair to him though, he (seemingly) hasn't had the chance to read why posters such as alderaan and jekylandhyde don't think FourFace is scum yet. For now, I will remain suspicious of these 2 without voting yet, for reasons that will be explained below. I'm also very curious though to know why everyone is ignoring igabod. Up until now, his contributions have been these 2 posts: All he has done is agree with what has been said so far (without even bothering to put it into his own words, or back his agreement up with his own logic), and since then we have heard nothing from him. Now I should say that this will likely be my last post from now until the voting deadline (the real one) because I have to head off to bed soon for class tomorrow, and will be in uni when the deadline is up. I have pretty much no breaks tomorrow either in between classes. Because of this, I will vote for a no lynch for today only. Since I will be away for so long, I'd rather not vote for a lynch on someone who posts a proper defense when they wake up, or if a better target presents themself and I'm not available to change my vote. Just to confirm, can I ACTUALLY vote for a no lynch, or does that only occur when there is no majority? I will actually probably come online tomorrow during a lecture just to check this post (and change my vote if I have to), wouldn't want to be modkilled for a stupid mistake like this Just fyi, If I cannot vote for a no lynch, I will be voting for igabod no matter what, because I won't have time to go through posts properly in a lecture to consider what everyone has to say. It seems like a safe enough option for now because I am sure I will not get a majority on him anyway at this stage, so this vote shouldn't have an effect on tomorrow's lynch. I'll be able to post more as I have Wednesday and Thursday off (GMT +11). ##vote: no lynch | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On March 02 2012 09:55 Chocolate wrote: Why can't we vote nttea? If he prevents himself from getting modkilled we should lynch him, gum contributes more than him. NF I will post a better reasoning at home but basically I thought the fact that you dropped ghost because he defended himself but not me was scummy. Especially considering his short post. You talked about this but I still think it's scummy. Cou-lynching me will give more information-gh Ehhhh what a cough, i totally agree with you chocolate we should lynch ntte, his behaviour is way scummier. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
Have you guys read the thread? I can throw a dart on page 38 and hit a post that paints gumshoe in a scummy light. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 06:50 gumshoe wrote: Seeing as lurking is the theme of this game I've conducted an analysis of this games second biggest lurker(not much to read out of nttea)! To start heres some fun facts, in his grand total of 11 posts test has stated that he is a newb on five diffrent occaisons, each time with more emphasis than the last. + Show Spoiler + This is my first online game of mafia, but I've played some in person Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play Sorry if this is a really newbie question, but what should we be trying to accomplish during this night phase? I think you are misunderstanding the rules. (Or I am, lol.) Is he claiming blue? I don't think he is. Everybody can calm down. (I think. I an after all the newbiest one here it seems, so I may be eating these words.) The second interesting thing is that test has not said one original thing, period, everything he's commented on has either been irrelevant or has been stated by someone else first. I will now laboriously set out to prove this, post by post( not too difficult though post count considered). 1)+ Show Spoiler + Hey guys! As you know, I'm replacing Steveling. This is my first online game of mafia, but I've played some in person. I'm still catching up on the thread (a little over half way through right now). I'll be up to speed and in the discussion a few hours from now. Not much here, just letting us know hes in the game, his next post comes roughly four hours later. Responded to this already here # + Show Spoiler + 2) Heres his only real notable post, it deserves some analysis so here we go!+ Show Spoiler + Ok guys, I've caught up on the thread now. Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play. Anyway, on to my thoughts.. So a few lines of him saying hes new and pretty much that we shouldn't take his opinion seriously. + Show Spoiler + Thoughts on Day 1 Voting I was torn between thinking that all of the push to vote igabod was useless and counter-productive, and thinking that it was a good alternative in to a no lynch in a spot where we didn't have a lot of information. When I had only read up to the end of Day 1, I was definitely suspicious of Chocolate, but knew his case was far from 100%. As such, I want to look back and say a no lynch was clearly the right move, but if I had had to cast a vote, it probably would have been for Chocolate, since he seemed to be the most likely to be scum at that point in time. This opening post is fascinating because he really says absolutely nothing while discussing a very important topic, he says he's torn about the iga switch and hes not sure whether it was right or wrong and then dosent make any conclusions, he just says he's thought about it, then he says that we should've lynched chocolate, so clearly it was the wrong decicion right? But he never makes this conclusion, he seems to say that what happened yesterday was ok but today we gotta get the job done k guys? Also it naturally follows that accusing choc is the easiest decision he can possibly make. Moving on to his suspicions. gumshoe attacks my indecision on day 1 voting. (Note that I was not in the game for day 1.) I am honestly undecided on what the right move was. We won't know until the game ends or Chocolate dies whether or not that no lynch > Chocolate lynch, so I'm not sure why indecision here is a problem. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + Current Reads + Show Spoiler + Alderan - He is definitely the player I'm most suspicious of right now. In addition to the other points mentioned in the recent cases against him, his attempts to get players to move from igabod to steveling make me think he has some information about igabod that everyone else doesn't. He makes it sound like the point about alderaan making the switch to steve is his point, its not, DYH and sloosh brought it up long ago, yet test specifically tries to make the point his own, basically his suspicions of alderaan are founded on other peoples suspicions, he is in essence bandwagoning a player who looks likely to be lynched without providing his own reasons. I'm not trying to assert that it is my point, only that it is the reasoning that backs my opinion. He's just putting words in my mouth here. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + nttea (igabod) - I really wish I had more information here. Right now its basically a null read, but if Alderan flips red, my suspicion of him goes up drastically. This is incredibly interesting, the exact opposite in fact of my earlier reasonings, earlier I grew suspicious of sloosh and felt that if I could lynch a lesser player with ties to sloosh I could ascertain his alignment, here test is suggesting the opposite, he says if we lynch an active player we can figure out a lesser ones alignment, why risk an active player in a game with so few commuters? Why not lynch nttea to get a grip on alderaan's alignment? Well the answer is a fascinating one if test is scum, because if he knows alderaan's town and lynches him, according to his reasoning applied backwards that should absolve nttea right? The reason he dosen't want to lynch nttea first is because nttea is scum, and if alderaan flips green before nttea flips red than nttea gets a pass, according to this post at least, this coupled with nttea's later proposition to default lynch alderaan is suspicius enough to warrant a case on one of them I would think, but neither have been brought to light, I will adress why I think that is the case later. Again putting words in my mouth, gumshoe assumes that my remarks mean that I want to lynch Alderan for the sole purpose of getting information about nttea/igabod. This is not what I said nor what I beleive. I had already stated my other reasons for being suspicious of Alderan, and the fact that gumshoe had clearly just read them makes me question how he could have even thought that I was proposing "if we lynch an active player we can figure out a lesser ones alignment" + Show Spoiler + Next part! + Show Spoiler + Janaan - Someone suspicious, but he seems to be getting a decent amount of scrutiny right now, so I'm confident we'll have the information we need before the next lynch comes around. I think he also looks scummier if Alderan turns out to be mafia. Did you know that test like alderaan was both suspected and suspicious by and of janaan? Earlier we wondered why janaan would kill his own suspect, what if it wasn't alderaan killing his own suspect, what if it was the other guy who had barely given and received pressure from janaan that ordered a hit that would seem only relevant to alderaan? This is a brilliant move regardless of wether or not town thinks alderaan did or didnt do it, because either way the wifome will only ever be relevant to Alderaan, because hes in the spot light, not test. This has nothing to do with wifome, its just a fact that if a guy dies you suspect his nemesis before you suspect his quarrelsome neighbour. Alderaan is test's cover. Also in case its relevant janaan had been called out long ago for flying under the radar by four face and a few other people, this idea is not his own. Also another thing, he says that if alderaan flips janaan looks scummy, why? Alderaan is pressuring janaan, wheres this connection? It really just sounds to me as if test is just trying to do everything in his power to get janaan lynched. Janaan already asked me about my hunch that Janaan/Alderan were connected (here). In fact, later in his post, gumshoe even quotes that very post! Other than that, this is all WIFOM that is so speculative that I don't even know how he expects me to respond. If anyone has specific questions here, feel free to ask. + Show Spoiler + next! + Show Spoiler + Chocolate - As has been noted, he's been pretty aggressive and someone willing to target anyone. This makes me want to keep an eye on him. Again another useless post, just says other people have found him suspicious and thats why he finds him suspicious. g+ Show Spoiler + umshoe - For as active as he has been he hasn't really said that much meaningful. I think he probably deserves more scrutiny than he has gotten, although I'm far from ready to lynch him. wont comment, I'm biased, will say though that alderaan suggested a case on me long before test did for these exact reasons. next! + Show Spoiler + sloosh - His early inactivity had me suspicious, but I'm back to a null read on him after his posts lately. Again nothing new, just stating the obvius, wont comment on any alliances or anything because once again I am biased twoards sloosh. + Show Spoiler + zelblade (FourFace) - I feel like he may have been put in a hard spot here. FF's posts seemed pro-town to me, but I don't know how much to trust that info given the crazy/troll nature. I'm definitely leaning townie on him, but new info could change my opinion quickly. pro town is a stretch, basically he's defending a whole new player on the basis of the old players insanity, still though by saying new information can change my opinion he leaves himself safe in case zell is brought under scrutiny. + Show Spoiler + I wish I had more information on: JekyllAndHyde, phagga, k2hd Some of these are time zone/RL issues, but the jury is still out on these 3 for me. I could definitely still go either way. Nothing to note really. + Show Spoiler + Basically neutral reads: DoYouHas, NightFury, ghost_403 Early suspicions of ghost seemed to get cleared up pretty well. I'm not ready to call pro-town on anyone this early, but these three are on the right track. again not much to say, he doesn't provide reasoning for why these guys are ok, just says they are. He tells me my opinions are unoriginal again, which isn't inherently bad, in a post intended to recap my opinion of the first day. He also disagrees with my speculative reads that are presented as speculative. + Show Spoiler + Next post! one minute later. 3) + Show Spoiler + P.S. Everytime I seem someone use the term WIFOM I can't help but laugh as I recall that scene from The Princess Bride . fluff 4) this post comes 3 hours later. + Show Spoiler + Sorry if this is a really newbie question, but what should we be trying to accomplish during this night phase? I want to contribute, but I feel a bit directionless right now. I feel like I should be making a case, but I can't come up with a lot that's conclusive. Is it just a waiting game until we see the results of the night actions and then work from there? This is an interesting post, two possibilities. a) Test is town: Hes just a newb struggling to contribute. b) Test is scum: Hes trying to justify his inactivity with his growing newbie persona and perhaps trying to suggest that there is no alternative to inactivity for the moment. Again nothing of note here, he has contributed absolutely no opinions in so far. WIFOM/addressed in my previous post. + Show Spoiler + Next post 5) + Show Spoiler + 1. I think that Chocolate seemed the most scummy then, not that it was enough to thoroughly convince me he was 100% red. I'd still say he's scummy, but I think there are enough people after him right now that by the time the next vote rolls around we'll have a lot of conclusions drawn about him to work from. 2. It just seems like you are posting enough to get by without being considered as a lurker, and not really saying anything incredibly bold. Very under-the-radar kind of play. As far as not pressuring, I don't feel confident enough in any of these reads to act without interacting a little more with the involved parties first. Despite having read everything, I haven't actually interacted with anyone in a back-and-forth manner yet. We'll see how I feel about these reads after I'm actively involved in the discussions. 3. Well, Alderan seems to keep mentioning you as someone he is suspicious of without really going too hard. It just gave me a vibe of him trying to appear hard on you without actually being. Honestly after looking at it more closely, I'm not as confident about it anymore; its more of a hunch than anything. 4. I'm feeling like phagga is pretty pro-town, but the hydra thing for JekyllAndHyde and throwing me off I think. Still can't tell you how I feel about him/them. Like I mention in 2, those were more of initial reads, I'm sure I'll change my mind on some things eventually. Let me know if you have any more questions. Heres his interaction with janaan, His first comment on chocolate is nothing, he just says he looks scummy and by tomorrow people will have reasons that he looks scummy, but of course I'm not sure about chocolate he says, because only scum are sure right test? His next comment towards janaan is that he says he feels janaan has just been trying to be under the radar, Janaan has posted as much as the next guy could in this stagnant game, so I find his suspicion unfounded, especially because janaan actually flipped town, its also interesting here that test once again feels compelled to justify his inactivity by saying he hasn't had enough back and forth with other players to start pressuring, you get back and forth by pressuring, by asking questions, neither of which has test bothered to do then or since. He talks about my need to justify my inactivity in a post I made less than 9 hours after entering the game. At this point I had been posting at a rate of over 12 posts/day. gumshoe is either not thinking through his argument, or intentionally presenting an invalid one. + Show Spoiler + It's also interesting that the behaviur test has suggested janaan is exibiting(just barely flying under the radar) is the typical behaviour of a blue why would you pressure someone as town if you they exhibited blue behaviur? That can only spell disaster for said blue, the only time its recommended is if you are scum trying to bait said blue into revealing his alignment. The next part we see that phagga has gone from post more/null to pro town, what? How? When did this occur? He quickly moves on and says he cant bother to read jeckyl and hyde because they are a hydra, again he leaves the heavy lifting to us. Finally he says that his reads don't mean anything and are want to change to suit his needs, conviction is a townie mark, test has none. His 6th 7th and 8th and 9th posts happen around the same time frame three hours later, all of them are in critique of me for pressuring zell, not much to note as wrong for that, just on thing struck me as odd in this whole exchange Zell says, + Show Spoiler + Test so good at understanding my posts <3 Umm this is the first time the two of you have interacted,youve never played with test before, yet you sound grateful here, your warmer to test in this one sentence than you have been to anyone this whole game, just seemed odd to me but its not much to go on I admit. His 10th post involves him agreeing with other people and saying I am the best lynch suspect, his 11th is much the same. Why has there not been a case put out against the second biggest lurker available? A lurker who does not provide his own opinions continually proclaims himself a humble newb and tunnels the likeliest suspects? This is deeply worrying for me, I feel that if town was in control of this game test's name would've come up by now, yet somehow it hasnt. He ends my skipping over my posts about him, including this one, in which I am in fact the first one to present the opinion that gumshoe may just be wanting to quit the game because he was caught blue-fishing. In the end, his post comes off as looking for an opportunity to divert attention from himself onto an easy target: the obviously inexperienced and hesitant replacement. He harps on my number of posts, despite the fact that I haven't had as much time in the game as everyone else. His poor case reaffirms my opinion that gumshoe is the correct lynch today. | ||
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NightFury
Canada114 Posts
On March 02 2012 09:47 gumshoe wrote: e tu night fury? Out of curiosity do you intend to absolve him when when/If I flip green? If you flip green, then it's the event where you could not have known his alignment. That is not basis alone to absolve him. | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On March 02 2012 09:56 ghost_403 wrote: @chocolate chime in on Gumshoe, right now. You want my opinion? I'll vote on him if necessary but my #1 vote goes to nttea. He has done nothing at all but isnt going to get modkilled. I'd much rather lynch him. On my phone right now by necessary I mean if it makes the difference between a nolynch and a lynch | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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