EPTIf anyone knows what I'm talking about please quote the post I made this game that is relevant.
Storm Mafia - Page 69
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If anyone knows what I'm talking about please quote the post I made this game that is relevant. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 28 2012 07:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: K man, if you guys really want to lynch me go ahead. I'm not arguing a stupid uphill battle anymore against the dumbass town and scumteam when I have school work to do among other things. If you think killing me will help then win then glhf k | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 28 2012 07:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: K man, if you guys really want to lynch me go ahead. I'm not arguing a stupid uphill battle anymore against the dumbass town and scumteam when I have school work to do among other things. If you think killing me will help then win then glhf sounds like you shouldn't have even joined this game | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
From the beginning of the game, the play of WBG can be summed up with one word. Adaptive. On February 21 2012 09:59 wherebugsgo wrote: VE stfu you suck Everyone else sucks marginally less ATM. Mostly chaoser is doing the least sucking. Blazinghand learn to play I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl. Till then I suggest you all brush up on Ver's guide since the last page has made my eyes bleed. This was WBG's first post in-game. I've bolded the line I find to be incriminating. I brought this up earlier, but this post is indicative of one of two things: 1) WBG is not reading the thread closely 2) WBG is reading, but ignoring facts to buddy chaoser. Whatever is your opinion of chaoser's play up until this point, he was certainly not doing "the least sucking". He made a decent point on Dirkzor and then fixated on something DocH had said (I think) that he had attributed to me. Was calling me to respond to it and stuff. In fact, the one doing the 'most' sucking up to that point wasn't even me, as he implied (jokingly I assume.) It was in fact redFF, the one he was notoriously wishy-washy on. Posts like this: On February 21 2012 10:01 wherebugsgo wrote: I beg to differ on that first statement, IMO redFF is god awful at this game …and this: On February 21 2012 10:54 wherebugsgo wrote: redFF=bad=I have no idea what his alignment is atm. If you want a general idea of how I deal with redFF, look at Resurrection (in which I call him bad repeatedly and then actually defend him from the onslaught of Ace) or at XLVII where I completely ignore him. He was opposite alignment in those two games and honestly I could barely tell the difference. I guess part of that stems from not wanting to read/decipher his posts. Since I believe redFF is going to be comparatively unreadable to some of the other players here (read: syllo, kita, chaoser, you, RoL, Jackal, Toad, risk) I think it's more fruitful for us to be pushing players who will react in ways we expect them to react depending on their alignments. As of now, yes, that means I think chaoser is scummy because he called it strange for me to buddy him and then turned around and buddied you in the next sentence. Remember: need to know basis. Why does anyone need to know chaoser's town reads? …and this: On February 21 2012 14:36 wherebugsgo wrote: you're still wrong, but whatever. My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true) I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding. …all very clearly illustrate that WBG was unwilling to commit to a read on redFF. It wasn't until his next post, On February 22 2012 06:37 wherebugsgo wrote: syllo can you give me your opinion on redFF? I think I was completely wrong about him. …that he actually alludes to what read he might have on redFF, but note the actual language he uses: I think I was completely wrong about him. Up until this point, wherebugsgo had only made one solid statement about redFF: he is bad. He makes it very clear to everyone that he wasn't calling red town or scum (because he's capable of being bad regardless of his alignment). So which part was he wrong about? It implies, subtly, that he used to have a badTown-read on redFF, but that he's having second thoughts and wants a second opinion because he then goes on to vote for redFF because he's "scum". But he was VERY clear about his stance on redFF: Just Bad. Interestingly enough, his very point on redFF proves that he's being manipulative in this post: On February 22 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote: about redFF. he's too much of a liability to town atm to keep him alive, and everything he's been done can actually be explainable from a scu perspective. Almost none of it can be explained from a town perspective. When I reread the thread this morning I took note to look for redFF's motivations for the things he was posting and I can't really justify anything he's done from town perspectve. I was wrong; I now think he is readable. Tell me, do you think a blue claim @ 5 votes, 24 hours into day 1 is something town would do? While it's true that "scum motivations" could feasibly explain some (all) of redFF's actions, it's equally feasible to explain them with simply "bad town play". I can absolutely see redFF playing that poorly as town, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't played many games with redFF. Regardless, he even throws in there that "he's too much of a liability to keep around" even if he's somehow mistaken in his "read" and redFF flips town. This is just evidence from D1, and his manipulation only intensifies. He's manipulating town, from the background. He's jumping on town sentiment rather than push his major scum-reads. wherebugsgo is scum | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
How am I jumping on anyone's sentiment when my vote is on Toad? Or that I think you're scum? Name another person who is agreeing with me about you right now, since it certainly seems like I'm playing a game with no support at all. Where have you been the last 48 hours? Clearly not helping town win. And you come in now with a bullshit case, 1/3 of which is based on the first post I made, one which was half troll. I'm done for a while, this is too frustrating. Now I know why syllo told me he wanted to die. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:01 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm jumping on town sentiment...how do you know what town sentiment is? How am I jumping on anyone's sentiment when my vote is on Toad? Or that I think you're scum? Name another person who is agreeing with me about you right now, since it certainly seems like I'm playing a game with no support at all. Where have you been the last 48 hours? Clearly not helping town win. And you come in now with a bullshit case, 1/3 of which is based on the first post I made, one which was half troll. I'm done for a while, this is too frustrating. Now I know why syllo told me he wanted to die. Blazinghand. "RebirthOfLegenD". redFF. All pushes you made AFTER suspicion had been on them from other players in-game. Don't worry about where I've been. It's irrelevant because I'm here now, and my case on you is strong. Your redFF push was a fucking joke bugs, and while I was with you on Blazinghand, your little "lynch-limiting" move where you can "guarantee hitting scum" is a fucking farce because I'm included in them and I know I'm fucking town. Your manipulation ends. Today. We're lynching you. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
if WBG was scum looking to kill RedFF (and had prior knowledge of the noflip) why would he pussyfoot around it when his scum meta is super confident?? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Let me get this straight VE. In order to be town you must be the first person to ever make a case on someone? I don't recall you doing much of that if WBG was scum looking to kill RedFF (and had prior knowledge of the noflip) why would he pussyfoot around it when his scum meta is super confident?? DoctorHelvetica falling back on meta? Say it isn't so Doc. I don't know why - maybe he's aware of his 'super-confident' meta and wanted to subvert it? Maybe he thought redFF was the very best mislynch possible and didn't want to spook townies by building a wagon too fast? There are a lot of factors coming into play as scum - take your pick as to why he wouldn't "follow his scum-meta". | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:14 VisceraEyes wrote: DoctorHelvetica falling back on meta? Say it isn't so Doc. I don't know why - maybe he's aware of his 'super-confident' meta and wanted to subvert it? Maybe he thought redFF was the very best mislynch possible and didn't want to spook townies by building a wagon too fast? There are a lot of factors coming into play as scum - take your pick as to why he wouldn't "follow his scum-meta". I don't think it's scummy to not make first analysis or anything like that. I've hardly been pushing my reads either. WBG is pretty high on my list of people I think are scummy in this game but your analysis is bad and coupled with your play earlier in the game I'm inclined to think it's more likely that you're scum. I'm going to reread WBG's filter later but I really think we should lynch Toades today. You agree that it's scummy to vote based on town perception right? A main point in your analysis is WBG asking syllo for his opinion before pushing his case, thus implying WBG is more concerned about how town will view his opinions rather than his own instincts. Toades publically announced his reluctance to vote for BH based on nothing except for how town might view the vote. Nobody at the time was very concerned with Toadesstern and if BH flipped town I would have immediately rechecked BC and Dirkzor but not Toadesstern. The fact that he was so concerned with how town viewed him and also the fact that he was trivial in the BH lynch/case but yet saw himself as important enough to warrant a town reaction is the kind of implicit guilt and fear that mafia reek of. If you are town and you really suspect WBG is scum keep pressuring him and I'll see what happens, but for now Toades is the best lynch. RoL is uninterested in the game and should just be shot at night, I'd rather not waste a lynch on someone who isn't pressured by it and is too immature to play a game in which some people are suspicious of him | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I pushed redFF at a time when everyone was UNVOTING HIM. Why the fuck would I do that as scum? That literally makes no sense, as scum if redFF was town that would just make me look bad. Why the hell would I knowingly subject myself to that shit? I'm aware of my own play, it's not like I'm so bad at scum that I'd go back on everything I said about a player just because I thought town would lynch them. I rarely, if ever, change my mind as scum, because it's dangerous as fuck. Your redFF push was a fucking joke bugs, and while I was with you on Blazinghand, your little "lynch-limiting" move where you can "guarantee hitting scum" is a fucking farce because I'm included in them and I know I'm fucking town. Says the guy who called redFF scum for half of day 1. And you admit that you agreed on Blazinghand but you are somehow not scum for that. Real great, pushing responsibility for the BH lynch off yourself and onto me. Yeah, I really capitalized on town sentiment when I was the first fucking vote on BH. Lastly, anyone and their mother can call themselves town, but in this game 4 of those players are liars. Up until this point, wherebugsgo had only made one solid statement about redFF: he is bad. He makes it very clear to everyone that he wasn't calling red town or scum (because he's capable of being bad regardless of his alignment). So which part was he wrong about? It implies, subtly, that he used to have a badTown-read on redFF, but that he's having second thoughts and wants a second opinion because he then goes on to vote for redFF because he's "scum". But he was VERY clear about his stance on redFF: Just Bad. Interestingly enough, his very point on redFF proves that he's being manipulative in this post: You accuse me of not reading the thread but are privy to it yourself. Maybe next time you try to forge a case on a townie you could read so you don't make yourself look scum. Up until this point, wherebugsgo had only made one solid statement about redFF: he is bad. He makes it very clear to everyone that he wasn't calling red town or scum (because he's capable of being bad regardless of his alignment). So which part was he wrong about? You call me manipulative yet you're manipulating my words right here. I called him UNREADABLE BECAUSE HE WAS BAD. Not just bad. Unreadably bad. Which part about it was I wrong? THAT HE WAS FUCKING UNREADABLE. LOL how hard is this to comprehend? You can easily answer your own fucking question, but the reason you don't is because you're trying to make me look bad. fail. It implies, subtly, that he used to have a badTown-read on redFF, but that he's having second thoughts and wants a second opinion because he then goes on to vote for redFF because he's "scum". And here's the manipulation. No, scum, it does not imply that I had a bad town read on redFF. It implies that I thought he was unreadable. I asked syllo his thoughts yet I later rationalized my disagreement with syllo's opinion. If I were scum why the fuck would I choose to disagree with the best townie in the game? But he was VERY clear about his stance on redFF: Just Bad. Interestingly enough, his very point on redFF proves that he's being manipulative in this post: I was very clear, and yet you're trying to change what I said. LOL. While it's true that "scum motivations" could feasibly explain some (all) of redFF's actions, it's equally feasible to explain them with simply "bad town play". I can absolutely see redFF playing that poorly as town, and anyone who says otherwise hasn't played many games with redFF. Regardless, he even throws in there that "he's too much of a liability to keep around" even if he's somehow mistaken in his "read" and redFF flips town. So what I said was true. But it wasn't true? the hell? Lastly; why would I include, as scum, the caveat that you claim would make me look better in the case that redFF flips scum, if I'd know that he wouldn't flip? Presumably as scum I'd know redFF wouldn't flip, so why the fuck would I care? This is just evidence from D1, and his manipulation only intensifies. Translation: this is all the stuff I've been able to fake from day 1, but if people don't believe me I can start bullshitting more stuff from day 2.But I won't now because I want to wait and see if anyone takes the bait. And I'm the manipulative one. rofl. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote: WBG is pretty high on my list of people I think are scummy in this game but your analysis is bad and coupled with your play earlier in the game I'm inclined to think it's more likely that you're scum. I'm going to reread WBG's filter later but I really think we should lynch Toades today. You agree that it's scummy to vote based on town perception right? A main point in your analysis is WBG asking syllo for his opinion before pushing his case, thus implying WBG is more concerned about how town will view his opinions rather than his own instincts. If I was scum and I asked syllo his read on redFF to make myself look better I would've chosen to agree with syllo. Instead I completely disagreed with him and did the exact opposite. So how exactly was I voting according to the perception I got from syllo? If I was actually doing what VE is insinuating I was doing, I would have simply followed syllo's vote. In fact, I think as scum that's actually a very viable strategy and I'd be more than willing to do it. I've seen sandro do it himself. But again, I didn't do that...so what's the point here? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
[QUOTE]On February 28 2012 08:14 VisceraEyes wrote: [QUOTE]On February 28 2012 08:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Let me get this straight VE. In order to be town you must be the first person to ever make a case on someone? I don't recall you doing much of that if WBG was scum looking to kill RedFF (and had prior knowledge of the noflip) why would he pussyfoot around it when his scum meta is super confident?? [/QUOTE] Toades publically announced his reluctance to vote for BH based on nothing except for how town might view the vote. Nobody at the time was very concerned with Toadesstern and if BH flipped town I would have immediately rechecked BC and Dirkzor but not Toadesstern. The fact that he was so concerned with how town viewed him and also the fact that he was trivial in the BH lynch/case but yet saw himself as important enough to warrant a town reaction is the kind of implicit guilt and fear that mafia reek of. If you are town and you really suspect WBG is scum keep pressuring him and I'll see what happens, but for now Toades is the best lynch. RoL is uninterested in the game and should just be shot at night, I'd rather not waste a lynch on someone who isn't pressured by it and is too immature to play a game in which some people are suspicious of him[/QUOTE] wat? That's not why I unvoted him and you know better, at least I hope so oO Yeah shooting RoL would be a nice idea. I already asked why noone shot him yesterday and think we either got no vigs or the guy got mafia protected because he was the target-to-hit last night. So no I'm not really convinced telling people to "just shoot RoL" is going to solve our problems. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:14 VisceraEyes wrote: DoctorHelvetica falling back on meta? Say it isn't so Doc. I don't know why - maybe he's aware of his 'super-confident' meta and wanted to subvert it? Maybe he thought redFF was the very best mislynch possible and didn't want to spook townies by building a wagon too fast? There are a lot of factors coming into play as scum - take your pick as to why he wouldn't "follow his scum-meta". LOL in the face of logic, VE resorts to speculation. Your case is shit. Die now. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 28 2012 08:26 Toadesstern wrote: wat? That's not why I unvoted him and you know better, at least I hope so oO Yeah shooting RoL would be a nice idea. I already asked why noone shot him yesterday and think we either got no vigs or the guy got mafia protected because he was the target-to-hit last night. So no I'm not really convinced telling people to "just shoot RoL" is going to solve our problems. EBWOP | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 25 2012 11:56 Toadesstern wrote: the sad part here is that I'm not getting out here alive no matter what's going to happen, because it's the very same situation we had in L d1 with Palmar. If BH flips town and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafa and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me because I was "defending" him. If BH flips town and I vote him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafia and I vote vote him everyone is going to rant about how I only voteswitched after I had to. Sad story, isn't it?  However, I'm going to rethink this whole thing when I wake up tomorrow. Should be plenty of time. For now I'm sticking with RoL. | ||
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