EPTSteamship Liquidia (TL Mafia 46) - Page 79
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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hyshes
Belgium428 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On November 21 2011 16:36 xsksc wrote: Just woke up and skimmed the thread, got to run for work now. Just realised I hadn't voted yet, I'll post explanations for these later, hopefully during lunch. ##Vote: Prphlz ##Vote: Nisani201 You misspelled your vote on prplhz. Zbot didn´t count it. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On November 21 2011 18:33 prplhz wrote: Ofcourse you do, now that I'm trying to get you lynched...risk.nuke Since Tyrran's post somehow he became confirmed townie. I don't think he is confirmed townie, I think he is scum. I never said "kill him", You are putting words in my mouth to make me look worse. I think there was a risk of people trusting Palmar more than they should, there are a lot of new faces in this game and at the point I wasn't very sure of Palmar's alignment and I thought he was taking his "don't worry town, I'm immortal and I'm gonna find all scum for you, just wait" to an extreme. So I warned people. In this post he is very subtly defending chaoser by telling wherebugsgo not to focus on him. wherebugsgo's tunneling style can be very effective and even chaoser could easily fall to it. I have a slight scum read on chaoser so this makes me think that risk.nuke is more scum. Here risk.nuke votes for Kenpachi while following up with logic that makes his lynch seem like the better option of the two, lynching Kenpachi and lynching lanaia. The scenario he fails to mention is the best scenario, we don't lynch Kenpachi, day2 we will have more information on him and Kenpachi hasn't been scummy at all. He never actually says that Kenpachi is scummy, he just lynches Kenpachi because they are connected and according to his own logic, we hardly even get anything out of Kenpachi's death! Here he votes for bumatlarge because he made half a case on me. He said in his post that he didn't have time to make a full case on me, then he disappears for a while, I guess because he had to tend to some other business outside mafia. Again, this is a very brittle foundation for a vote. Also, if risk.nuke thinks that I'm scum, shouldn't he think that bumatlarge should at least be more townie for making a case on me? Or does he just care about a seemingly easy target? Again, he doesn't say that he actually thinks that bumatlarge is scum, it seems like his votes are mostly because he wants to vote for people. Bolded parts, why does he feel the need to say that he is town too? Why does he say that if you get lynched, even as townie, that is always your own fault? It looks like he is trying to absolve himself of all flak that could come from him voting for townies, which is all he's done this game so far. In the second paragraph he attacks people for being dumb and half arsed, but isn't he half arsed himself? His votes so far have been half arsed and he never pushed for anything so far. Also he attacks Cyber_Cheese that I'm getting a slight townread from. also Hands up everyone who thinks I'm not pushing for anyone... In this post he defends chaoser by saying the he's starting to believe he might be town, then why did he not want wherebusgo to interrogate him yesterday? He goes on to say that RebirthOfLegend is almost confirmed town just because HiroRuby was replaced. A replacement says absolutely nothing about your alignment, he didn't just lose interest he actually went cold turkey with mafia and dropped the game. He also attacks wherebugsgo and Palmar, neither of whom are giving up on their attacks on chaoser, thus sowing mistrust in their judgment. I was unsure yesterday but today I'm starting to think that chaoser might be scum, he has been attacked for not doing anything sensible ever since day1 and how does he defend himself? He martyrs and he attacks Palmar and wherebugsgo right back. This is no way to defend yourself. Also risk.nuke is attacking xsksc whose filter I've been through without finding anything incriminating. As for Zepphird, i dno lole~. Good lynch for today. ##Vote risk.nuke Also, even though I'm getting less of a scum vibe from him than I'm getting from risk.nuke: ##Vote chaoser I'd prefer if we only lynched one today and I'd prefer if that person was risk.nuke. In conclusion this post is just a huge OMGuS-post. His arguments doesn't hold against a closer check which tells us he is trying to frame me. lynch him!! | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On November 21 2011 22:00 prplhz wrote: Can't you look for an alternative now then, so you will not end up lynching some ill-advised secondary opinion? What are you saying? That it will come to the situation Palmar described, that you will claim and we will lynch someone else in a haste? If you have anything else to defend yourself with, then post it now. I´ve allready spent most of the night and almost all of the day trying to lynch you. If you can prove I´m wrong about you then do it now, so we can put the next 12 hours to use by finding other scummy players. If you don´t have anything, then I´ll keep doing what I do, I´d rather focus on the case I built than try to follow the other weaker scumreads. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
Warning: This post is written as a flow of conciousness, so expect some weird sentences/conclusions This guy is a notoriously difficult person to read, to the point I would almost say that lynching him generally fruitless. I skimmed through some of his previous games I could remember, and he does have a reasonable history of voting for scum early as town (see mini mafia x, bc's aa etc). But he is also surprisingly reckless as scum (see his randomly brilliant claim in PYP:I). What makes this difficult is that we can't actually call him out on things we'd normally be able to call other people out for. Just for the people who are frantically trying to apply scumtells, I'm just going to tell you straight up that your game will improve dramatically when you stop looking at what people are saying and start looking at how they're saying it. As for prplhz's initial game strategy, we see him arguing against LAL, while that's obviously retarded (LAL only works if people are under the impression it will be followed through no matter what, even if in the end that might not be the case), he does seem to have valid reasons for not going through with it. Another thing I find works in his favor in day 1 is that he's actually trying to discourage too strict policies, which is something mafia generally tries to avoid, because it's questionable behavior. What scum reasons could prplhz have for arguing against early lurker lynches? I don't really see any. His early vote for Hiroruby is also very much justifiable, because well... I personally have only twice seen people write posts on how mafia would play, and both times they turned out to be scum (see for example sandroba in CCM). So once again, there is nothing from the early game that suggests prplhz is mafia. After this, prplhz goes ahead and points out that I'm "manipulating" town. Now, I do have a problem with this, because at this point he can't have a good read on me as I had posted almost nothing. This looks like an preemptive attack on my creditability. At this point all I had done was reach a conclusion and posted a quick case about chaoser, that was almost it. This is obviously bad play on prplhz's behalf (simple statistics say there's 80% chance I'm town, so there is no need to instantly attack someone like that, unless it's backed up by something), but I'm not sure it is a scumtell, he could just as well be afraid of my scum play. Finally he goes on a capsing spree. Once again it's not really telling that he's using caps, it might just as well be overenthusiastic town. However he reaches the conclusion that sinani206 is a terrible lynch. Notice that I reach exactly the same conclusion as prplhz, and neither of us actually post a case explaining why. However prplhz, does not have any previous history of making correct calls day 1 and opposing lynches vocally like that. Actually I'd go out on a limb and say he feels uncomfortably convinced in that read on sinani206. I know it's entirely hypocritical of me to call someone out for being right (I had the pleasure of being called scum for being right in XLIV, it's a terrible feeling), but now it comes down to how much credit I give prplhz for being good at town, and I don't think I can give him this much credit. I know he's a cocky bastard (welcome to the club), but I have to look at the situation from the point of view of "what would happen if prplhz is town and he was wrong". This is the reason most townies don't explicitly go out of their way to defend other townies, because they actually don't know if they're right, and the repercussions of being wrong (defending mafia) can be pretty bad for town. Following his few random comments during the night, he has to spend the next day defending himself. Which is probably the best way to deduce his alignment, because it forces him to be more honest instead of hiding behind throwaway comments like he did on day 1. There are several things of importance. He outs his caps spamming as some kind of a plan, which may rank up there with the worst ideas ever in mafia games, but once again, it's not what people are doing, it's how that matters. Does anyone here actually think that trying this, and then explaining it as a plan is a good play as mafia? It draws attention, it is ridiculous, and makes him (rightfully) the center of attention. When mafia could just as easily ride one of the several other shitstorms going on in the thread. Another thing that really works in prplhz's favor is the fact that he doesn't lose sight of the end goal while he's being scrutinized. He has all the while through defending himself kept calling people out for bullshit and attempted to create cases. And talking about the cases. risk.nuke isn't going to be lynched. After Tyrran called him confirmed town on day 1, it's going to take a bit of a stretch to get risk.nuke lynched. This is important because if prplhz was scum trying to defend himself from the lynch, he could so easily try to build a case on someone in a weaker position, but prplhz chooses to build the case against one of the most universally accepted townies in the game. That's either really ballsy or really stupid as mafia. I don't think even myself or WBG would be cocky enough to try this, and prplhz is still not as much of an asshole as I am. I think the conclusion must be that I don't want to lynch prplhz. So yeah, for transparency and people just looking for the verdict (though I would argue that reading the entire thought process is extremely helpful) I'm going to (despite never having voted him) ##Unvote: prplhz | ||
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
Your only valid argument against him are "He attacks someone I have a sligth town read on" and "He defend someone I have a sligth scum read on". Oh yeah, and he claimed town. That's not enough for me. | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
The relevant posts where prplhz defend sinani206. + Show Spoiler + prplhz defending sinani206 7 minutes before the lynch; On November 18 2011 10:53 prplhz wrote: ##Vote bumatlarge oh my god you suck MORE PEOPLE ON DRAZERK, HIRORUBY, AND CYBER_CHEESE LESS PEOPLE ON SINANI206 THANK YOU prplhz defending sinani206 2 minutes before the deadline, right after hyshes had cast the 14th vote; On November 18 2011 10:58 prplhz wrote: I don't know if Zona isn't just gonna give a warning first. I don't think I've been here for the last 24 hours either but hopefully I'm not getting modkilled. I mean sometimes you don't have all the time in the world and sometimes you forget how long it's been since last time you posted, it's not like either of us have been lurking all game. I actually think sinani206 has been surprisingly helpful to town this game compared to some of his other games. So please don't lynch him just because he's a lurker, day1 has already killed off one lurker who was most likely town. prplhz lamenting that his defence didn´t save sinani206; On November 18 2011 11:33 prplhz wrote: hahahaha that lynch was totally your fault l2p you can't expect everybody to think that your lurking oneliner style is the greatest thing ever in mafia so stop being an asshole about it After sinani was lynched, I called out prplhz on this. The first posts were the usual ignoring pressure, but eventually he took the case seriously. He says that his defence of sinani was actually meant to help (he later took this back), that he thought it could save sinani, that it was irrelevant that it was posted in ALL CAPS because Townies would take it seriously anyway. This didn´t make any sense, sinani should have known that he wouldn´t have been taken seriously for posting in ALL CAPS. Finally he resorted to defend himself by pointing out that he himself didn´t vote for sinani, saying that those who did are the ones we should be suspicious of. That is the real reason for the token defence, as Scum he knew sinani was a mislynch, he could sit back and defend sinani for Towncred, and to throw suspicion on the townies involved with the mislynch. Being under pressure didn´t allow him to go with the original plan, but he still used this argument to try and defend himself. The relevant posts of prplhz defending himself and attempts to throw suspicion on others. + Show Spoiler + prplhz saying he did what he could to stop the lynch; On November 19 2011 22:02 prplhz wrote: I highlighted the important part in bold and removed part of my post since you were apparently too lazy to read the whole thing in the first place. I thought I made my opinion very accessible but apparently not accessible enough. This was before he got hammered. Do you really think I stand out as a player who wanted sinani206 dead? Did I not make an attempt to call it off? Do I even have the power to call anything off, and in spite of this, did I not do everything I could to prevent sinani206 from being lynched? sinani206 ALWAYS sucks, I just thought he sucked considerably less in this game. Yes, I actually thought sinani206 was playing very well ... that is, compared to how he usually plays. We'd already lynched one lurker (I wanted him to perform because I know he's great at mafia, he shot two scum in XLV, and then when I came back you morons had actually lynched him on no ground at all, sucks) and as I'd already stated in the thread, lynching lurkers is something scum likes a lot more than town. I think this is very weird because I really didn't think you were this dumb. prplhz throwing suspicion at those who lynched sinani, a lynch he himself avoided taking a stand on; On November 20 2011 02:31 prplhz wrote: So ... I wasn't around and when I was around I had to go through 20 pages of chaoser and Palmar and wherebugsgo going at it and then finally when I reached the end of that shitstorm, I arrive at people wanting to lynch another known lurker. I didn't have a decidedly town read on him but I didn't think he was scummy enough at all. Look at his posts, all one liners. I just think they looked like he actually tried to contribute with his single lines compared to other games so I wrote in caps lock DO NOT LYNCH. Why the hell aren't you focusing on the moron who actually went ahead and lynched him instead, I believe it was hyshes but don't hold me up on that. Now I am defending people in the interest of getting them lynched? Well that's up hill now wouldn't you say so. I said what I meant, the guy shouldn't get lynched. Blaming me for getting him lynched is stupid when all I ever said was that he was a moron but that he was probably town and people shouldn't vote him. @hyshes Why the hell did you vote sinani206 after I had written IN CAPS LOCK that you shouldn't vote him? Why did you think it was a good idea? What kind of information did you hope to gain from it? What information did you actually end up gaining? You didn't comment on his lynch at all since it happened so it doesn't seem like you got any information from it. Also your filter is very underwhelming at first sight, didn't have time to read it through 'cause I kinda have to go cook some food right now. Again accusing the people on the lynch; On November 20 2011 04:23 prplhz wrote: This is insanity, I wrote before he was hammered that I wanted less people to vote for him. How is this subtly wanting him dead? I never called for a lynch on sinani206 at all, a lot of people voted him for shitty reasons and you should look at them instead. Look at people who voted him even though they know his meta. Look at hyshes who just ignored everything and played the newbie card voting for a guy in spite of all warnings. I'm gonna read your god damn filter later, I had to go cook food 'cause my sister was bitching at me, does that make me scum? Jesus christ. I never said that caps lock equals convincing statement, but does it equal unconvincing statement? I posted my opinion very clearly. Unfortunately I was too late and hyshes didn't give a shit anyway (who the hell doesn't take a post seriously just because it's in caps, jesus christ. If you had any doubts, why didn't you ask before you hammered?) so sinani206 ended up lynched. Not a big deal anyway, it's not like he would have scum hunted ever and his role required a lot of skill to use. Would have been useful at a mylo though. ##Unvote Drazerk For now. He has said that he made an attempt to call of the lynch, and now back off, saying he didn´t defend sinani; On November 20 2011 05:06 prplhz wrote: I never said that I defended sinani206, I honestly don't care that you killed him 'cause he would have been useless anyway, I just had a slight townie feeling about him because I thought he was trying harder than he was in PYP:I where he was scum. And there is no reason to lynch a townie, though with sinani206 there's not much reason to not lynch him either. If you would rather listen to "stop voting i think he's town" than "STOP VOTING" then what the hell. I see your logic, but I don't think that's what I did. I wrote my opinion, if you don't care about it because it's in caps then that's your fault. My statements were not hard to read at all and I made my opinion pretty clear. | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On November 21 2011 22:29 Palmar wrote: So yeah, for transparency and people just looking for the verdict (though I would argue that reading the entire thought process is extremely helpful) I'm going to (despite never having voted him) ##Unvote: prplhz That´s not transparency, that´s you trying to trick people into thinking the wagon on prplhz just stopped. If you want transparency, post that you think prplhz is Town with big green letters. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I didn't think it could save sinani206 but I didn't think that "don't vote sinani206 because i think he's town" would in any way work better than "DON'T VOTE SINANI". I think the "i think he's town" was implied. I could have said "i think he's town because of previous games" but I wouldn't be able to quote anything. This was a gut feel, and I think that's what my caps message also communicated. I wasn't lamenting anything anyway, I thought sinani206 went way over the line when he said "fuck you" to a new player so I taunted him (sorry). Also, if you look at the post I actually say that I understand people who voted for him, I never expected them to have the same gut read as me and I didn't consider sinani206 a big loss either except for his role which could have been good at a possibly mylo if he would be confirmed townie at that point or something. Somewhat unrelated to the game, it was totally sinani206's fault that he got lynched. Any townie who gets lynched should always blame themselves even though it might not be their own fault. It was in this case though. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:09 Forumite wrote: Palmar, your defence of prplhz around the sinani206 lynch is that he was uncomfortable defending a player he thought was Town? That´s still Anti-Town and something most Scum would do, so how is this a defence? It isn't a defense. I didn't defend him around the sinani206 case. As I stated, the post was written as I read through prplhz's posts. If I had stopped there I probably would've voted prplhz, because the two things that are really off on him, are what he did around the sinani206 lynch, and what he did to try to discredit me. I didn't stop reading, I went through, and in the end, despite that I think he's town. I have explained what I think about him, and in great detail how I came to that conclusion. I wasn't straight up defending him, because I only decided my conclusion right at the end of that post. On November 21 2011 23:11 Forumite wrote: That´s not transparency, that´s you trying to trick people into thinking the wagon on prplhz just stopped. If you want transparency, post that you think prplhz is Town with big green letters. Oh no, you saw through my masterplan, I was so sure I would trick people with that! Are you 4real bro? Anyway, if people don't agree with me... just lynch him. I'm not gonna support it because I think he is town. | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:25 Palmar wrote: It isn't a defense. I didn't defend him around the sinani206 case. As I stated, the post was written as I read through prplhz's posts. If I had stopped there I probably would've voted prplhz, because the two things that are really off on him, are what he did around the sinani206 lynch, and what he did to try to discredit me. I didn't stop reading, I went through, and in the end, despite that I think he's town. I have explained what I think about him, and in great detail how I came to that conclusion. I wasn't straight up defending him, because I only decided my conclusion right at the end of that post. So basically I caught his scummyness around the Day 1 lynch, but since he´s been very carefull in his posting and has managed to convince you to overlook the earlier misstep, even though there is no way to defend what he did. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On November 21 2011 22:29 Palmar wrote: Another thing that really works in prplhz's favor is the fact that he doesn't lose sight of the end goal while he's being scrutinized. He has all the while through defending himself kept calling people out for bullshit and attempted to create cases. I recall that this was used as an argument against Kenpachi, people said he was creating chaos because he was accusing people more than he was defending himself. During all this I haven´t found any defence of prplhz. Those who think him Town do this because of the rest of his posts, but noone can find a pro-Town reason for his actions around the sinani lynch, the best that has been presented is Palmar explaining it as prplhz not feeling comfortable to defend someone he thought was Town. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:51 Forumite wrote: So basically I caught his scummyness around the Day 1 lynch, but since he´s been very carefull in his posting and has managed to convince you to overlook the earlier misstep, even though there is no way to defend what he did. Yes. Why do you care? You're probably town too, and no matter how this goes down I'm going to look bad for it. You're not going to be swayed. Do you not want discussion? You asked for my thoughts, these are my thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:57 Forumite wrote: I recall that this was used as an argument against Kenpachi, people said he was creating chaos because he was accusing people more than he was defending himself. During all this I haven´t found any defence of prplhz. Those who think him Town do this because of the rest of his posts, but noone can find a pro-Town reason for his actions around the sinani lynch, the best that has been presented is Palmar explaining it as prplhz not feeling comfortable to defend someone he thought was Town. You're even misinterpreting what I said: Here's the quote: Actually I'd go out on a limb and say he feels uncomfortably convinced in that read on sinani206. I'll interpret this: "I am not sure prplhz would have the guts to defend sinani206 like that as town" <--- implying he might be scum based on this. I agree that's the most scummy thing prplhz has done this game, does it change the fact that I think he's town? No. Several people have done stupid stuff, yet I don't think they're scum for it. I've said on many occasions that my main weakness as town is to tell apart bad town play and scum play, and I am going with bad town play on this one. You're not going to convince me. But feel free to go out and try to convince others. Maybe you'll prove me wrong and get to say "I told you so". | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:59 Palmar wrote: Yes. Why do you care? You're probably town too, and no matter how this goes down I'm going to look bad for it. You're not going to be swayed. Do you not want discussion? You asked for my thoughts, these are my thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. You are scum lol. Only mafia ever make that half assumption in an attempt to draw support from a player. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:07 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: You are scum lol. Only mafia ever make that half assumption in an attempt to draw support from a player. Hi RoL. You're wrong, but that's okay, you're probably scum. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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