TL Mafia L

On January 13 2012 17:28 VisceraEyes wrote:

Look around you. Go on, go back to page 1 and take a good long look at the player-list in this game. I'll wait.

You'll see some familiar names, some you don't recognize, some you love playing with and some you hate playing with. You'll see seasoned veterans and raw newbies. You'll see professional e-sports figures and people fresh off super-secret-probation. This is possibly one of the most diverse player-lists since XLVII. With such a diverse cast of characters, do we really want the same ol' mayor calling the shots?

It's time for a change.

My name is VisceraEyes. Some of you might know me as 'that crazy guy who used to post insane nonsense but who has come back actually making sense at least half the time'. Others might know me as 'isn't he that guy who shot the GF on N1 of Election Mafia?' Still others of you may have never heard of me at all. It is for all of these reasons and more that I'm nominating myself for Mayor of Liquidia.

"But VE, surely you jest! No one would follow you!"

You have a point sir, but please allow me to explain. I don't intend to 'lead' the town. I intend to play the game as I always do - by being as open and transparent with my reads/thoughts as I can possibly be. I intend to lynch scum today, and I intend to relentlessly hunt for the remaining scum WITH town in the days to come. In this way, if town is interested in hunting scum, they have to follow me, because I'll already be doing that. It's called lead by example, and it's something the vets have forgotten about.

"VE, surely you can see the merit of having a proven veteran of TLMafia as the mayor, right?

At this point, no. In the games I've played, it seems to me like the vets are all mostly interested in surviving the first 2 night-kills (if they're town) before actually playing the game. I'm tired of electing someone into a position, only to have them waste it by lurking and throwing out random pro-town tidbits in an effort to avoid getting killed while they collect data. What does this serve to do? Get random players killed while the Mafia try and kill that vet before they become effective, that's what. I'll be active the whole game, not just from D3 on[. I'll be lynching scum TODAY, and I'll be hunting scum with you guys starting X pages ago…not on D3.

All right that makes sense, but I've got to know: are you going to be as effective at scumhunting as a vet would?

I'm not going to lie, here. I'm probably not as good at scumhunting as some of the vets may be. But I'll tell you what I DO know. I know that I probably try harder than all of them. It's part of the reason I've improved as much as I have since I started playing: because I relentlessly look for the scums. And here's something else to think about: go over my last couple of games and tell me that my alignment was a mystery to you. Go on, look. I bet anyone here (including some of our fresher players) could go look through my filter of any given game and accurately predict my alignment. Can you say the same about any of the vets also running for mayor? I'm talking to you too, vets: can you honestly say that I'll be harder to read than, say, BloodyC0bbler? Or Meapak?

I'm almost convinced sir, but I have one final question for you: who would you lynch if chosen to be mayor?

I can honestly say that I have no idea yet who I'm going to lynch today (and who asks that at a time like this anyway?) But I promise that I'll take everyone's input into account should you choose to elect me, and the final decision will be a town decision.

On January 15 2012 03:12 Ciryandor wrote:
Whew, finally caught up after 25+ pages. Seriously. I just got home from being away all day today and had a long day at work yesterday, and people think I'm a good lynch candidate, especially for like half the mayor candidates? That's just fine and dandy, but there are other players who fit the same criterion.

Some reads on players of interest:
I honestly think GGQ has just as bad a posting history as mine, and that he has escaped scrutiny by creating an FoS on me just because I was asking why I should be believing the early candidates like Cyber_Cheese instead of Mr. Wiggles during that time.

I also can't blame Protactinium for thinking I'm bad as well with my responses, but I wouldn't vote for him just because he thinks BC is scum, and he hasn't buttressed that argument since. As far as I've read, I think BC has townie interests at heart and is in the usual situation with leading mayor candidates, having a hard time justifying what he would do with the position beyond the Day 1 lynch power, but a point against him as well is that he has not delivered his mason partner, which he had decided to reveal in one of his posts.

Also, risk.nuke being suddenly defensive after some criticism of him making a half hearted push for mayor is IMO very newbie townie play, or a scum being baited to attract others' attention to him. This should be noted as I think risk is noob town who does not know how to defend his positions properly.

Just a question, where is Kurumi? At least sandroba has posted even if he thinks I'm scummy for asking if he's running, and Palmar has said he doesn't really care now about the vote; which is uncharacteristically sour of him. I read Palmar as trolling town more than scum because of that, as he would have probably given a token "I support someone because they're worth trusting" post (as that could influence newbies/lurkers) who see people commenting at him being a veteran voting that way at the very least if he were scum.

Finally, I have to note that Bill's post that it is likely we have a scum candidate among the front-runners leads me to think we should actually do a vote-swing to a random strong candidate, and that the votes for that person should come from people who have already voted, as IMO it is more likely for scum to have delayed voting to have more influence over the result in a close race and not waste votes in a throw-away push for their candidate if a runaway win were to happen. Right now I'm torn between Proact and Sandroba in voting, because at least they're concrete in promising ONE NAME to lynch instead of being wishy-washy in getting a list of targets up, and that I think they have plans for town after Day 1 that don't need to be publicized yet.

On January 15 2012 03:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Using the phrase "has been on my nuts all game" is more or less accurate. You are really the only person who has been against me for a decent period of time. You also have said your reasons why. Do i agree with them? No. I do understand them however. If you compare what you were doing to what VE did you would understand why he is on a radar now and you are currently not.

However, as for the upsides of my claim. Look at the specific post Incog (the hydra) quoted of mine from my town analysis thread that I believe i linked in a previous post. (if i didnt i can dig it up, its also somewhere on page 4-6 i believe of the mafia forum).

I stress that most people don't use pm's correctly. In a situation where only a few specific players have access to that domain, it gives the mafia an advantage. They will have 10 people able to work on manipulating a player. You can say "i am going to look for manipulation so it won't happen" but again. Ask what I did to VE. It was subtle and vile. All I did was plant an idea that I knew he would think on and run with, and he did it in a way I knew he would. Manipulation is not obvious and a good player will know exactly how to do it without being caught. Mafia will have 10 people making sure its done right. I know that I can freely romp in pm land, but no smart mafia is going to talk to me seriously if i mason them. Why? Because i could do to them what they would do to another player. As such I had to think. How likely is it that only top players got the mason role?

Unlikely as fw rng's roles. We are also a gimped mason as we lose contact with who we target after each cycle and can never use it on them again. This is inherently not helpful to town. Why? Because a townie benefits from bouncing ideas off one another in pms. However you need the time to build up a "trust" of sorts with the person to actually get a serious discussion on reads. People will naturally always suspect you at first when mason'd or at least they should. That is not alot of time to get by the distrust and have a discussion of who x and y think is scum. Then you have to go over all those pms and see if there is a hidden agenda there. PM's in the way we traditionally use them to "bounce ideas" or find scum are used over long periods of time with people mulling over information. As your ability to get reads is so short term they are unreliable and far more useful to manipulate or mislead which takes far less effort, and is doable in a much faster span of time.

As such I opted to want to discuss the role. However, I also knew that based on my decision to heavily push this point, I would be forced to claim my role as there would be no way I would be able to hide that fact for the game while pushing heavy on its discussion. Even if I could, it could lead masons to out and out claim and would look extremely bad if I didn't while essentially outing people in thread.

As such I did right from the get go.

On January 15 2012 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


so the belief you have for deciding a lynch is via discussion and town consensus but you are voting for a player who has made 0 posts aside from saying he would kill ciryandor if elected or kill me if elected. so You are actually in favour of having someone lynched with 0 discussion as you are strictly following the most inactive of all the candidates who sole stance currently is lynching me.

contradiction

On January 15 2012 11:46 wherebugsgo wrote:


I haven't voted.

I'm thinking about voting BC. As I've said repeatedly, I don't like any of the candidacies. Bill Murray is a bad candidate. Who is he even going to lynch?

None of the proposed lynch candidates are any good. None of the reasons for mayorship are good either. I'd like to vote BC because he looks the most townie of the people who have run and he's the most likely to get shot as well.

I would vote for Foolishness if he actually had a chance at becoming mayor. Although, at this point, as usual he has done very little so his alignment is still unknown. Mafia will definitely shoot him n1 if he's town, though.

On January 15 2012 12:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
wowowowowowow.

Alright, I was wrong. Fuck.

Here we revisit Macpo. I won't restate my previous analysis. However, I think people are not seeing the subtle differences in how Macpo is different from some of the other newbies or lurkers. The key is overemphasis on inexperience to the point that he is begging to be ignored. This is a textbook case of mafia. But for all of you doubters, here is a new piece of information. Look at Macpo's 4th post here:



and compare to his first post, where he overly emphasizes his newbiness. See the difference? Macpo doesn't apologize at all in this post, and spews a bunch of opinions. Previously, he stated that "I just feel that being confident in my claims on day 1 is kind of stupid, as there is almost no rational basis for being so." Huge contrast. Its as if its a different person posting. Its pretty obvious that Macpo is getting coaching from his mafia friends. Then his next post:



Besides the fact that Macpo doesn't follow his own advice and really doesn't "get into it and help town", notice the pleading tone. I bet its a different coach this time! LOLOLOLOL





For not having caught up yet, GGQ has a shockingly strong opinion that Macpo is newb town. What's even more interesting is that this read is his basis for urging people not to vote me in. Why does GGQ have such a strong attachment to Macpo? He never once discusses lynch targets or inquires about who the other mayoral candidates is going to lynch. But for some reason he really wants to save Macpo. Without even considering whether or not I am otherwise a good candidate for mayor. He doesn't attempt to persuade me not to lynch Macpo, he just flat out says that I shouldn't be voted in. In short, GGQ is apathetic both about who becomes mayor and who gets lynched. But for some reason he really cares that Macpo doesn't get lynched.

GGQ is also lurking hard while providing no content. Contrast to Responsibility Mafia where he is active, expresses interest in finding a good target for the lynch and gives a few detalied analyses on GMarshal and Mr. Wiggles.

On January 17 2012 08:01 ~OpZ~ wrote:

I want to lynch Lanaia. Every post is wishywashy, and that big post with probably 30 people on it was a huge attempt to appear to be doing something. Just doesn't feel right.

On January 17 2012 08:17 ~OpZ~ wrote:

I've never played with her, and regardless of it, I said I feel off. I'm trusting my gut on this one. She is mafia.

Protact is suspected strongly mafia to me and should be to everyone else, plus annoying as heck, example: They've been asked repeatedly, by multiple people, to post which one of them are posting. It's not hard or difficult to comply with that, and seems reasonable I believe. Also, THEY gained a random ass following, claimed to have had given Day one direction, when they had all of 4 posts when they claimed to have given direction to the day. Seriously. That's a load of horse manure. I don't trust protact, at all even if he pointed out ciryandor. He wasn't the first to call him out and even changed his target to BC afterwards. I won't sheep after his wishes.

On January 17 2012 03:03 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Could Lanaia be mafia? You ever consider that? I have...Not just the long post today were neutral. Almost every post. But I'll be pointing that out later, I gotta do some things real quick.

On January 17 2012 13:28 Foolishness wrote:
READ CAREFULLY! DON'T LOSE THIS POST! REPOST MANY TIMES

I am making this post as a way of compiling the thoughts of the few people in this game who are making sense and posting good analysis. A lot of it will be my own thoughts, but it's heavily based on a few people (should be obvious) who are the most transparent and the most obvious townies.

9 Mafia remaining. Here's the preliminary suspects: Macpo, GGQ, L. These are the people I feel we have the best case for and most of the transparent people in the thread seem to agree about these 3. Personally I think GGQ is town and we should avoid lynching him for now. Protact already gave viable reasons why Macpo is better than GGQ today, and I feel there is little to argue there. sandroba pointed out how L is acting like in Ver's game, and I couldn't agree more. We also have Incog's analysis against L.

Secondary suspects: Bill Murray, chaosquo, evantrees. These 3 people have garnered attention from a few people but not from everyone, so they are listed as secondary candidates. I am of the belief that all 3 of these people are mafia. evantrees is already mentioned by Incog. I think Cyber_Cheese highlighted a good summary of chaosquo here. Most of it is similar arguments to Macpo.

Bill Murray as red? I think so. Others have cast suspicion but there's not been a full analysis anywhere. A few people have commented that the election "feels" weird in some way, and I definitely sympathize. The votes for Bill Murray come across as the most suspicious: lots of random votes there. Personally I was surprised he even got into office (remember I was out all day so I saw the results without reading the previous 20 pages). I do realize I may have initially pushed him into candidacy, but I shall take responsibility for that and see to it that he's lynched in the near future. But to be simple: Bill Murray posted a lot, and got into office. Since then he's been pretty passive at the helm (so has BC I realize). That's good enough reason to warrant a ton of suspicion, as he should be actively scumhunting and posting without fear at this point.

Remaining mafia candidates: Jackal, Opz, kingjames, zeks. Incog has an analysis against Jackal as we know. I am not on board with him being mafia yet. Traditionally when he is mafia he posts paragraphs, and not one-liners. However he warrants suspicion for having an apathetic attitude.

Opz is someone who I believe Sheth was the first to cast doubt on, and I must say Sheth is definitely onto something. I know of the past Opz as a town player who is aggressive, not afraid to call people out on their bullshit. That's something we aren't seeing much of this game. He's posted a few of his own thoughts, but there is a clear lack of effort. Bored townie who is facepalming at having to read 100 pages? Possibly. Mafia hiding in the shadows? Fits better.

kingjames is called out on by Incog, and there's further analysis by BC. His last sentence is the perfect sum to kingjames: "The key thing to note is that in contrast to his town play where he is outgoing and analytical, his posts in this game are very subdued, seem artificial and feel overly planned." kingjames has yet to do anything to contradict this.

zeks I felt strongly about yesterday, he made a bad post which is nothing like his normal outspoken attitude (though it's been a while since he's played I think). He has since asked for a replacement and hasn't posted, but should still be looked at in the future.

Meapak_Ziphh is someone I would like to throw out there as a candidate (which shouldn't be a surprise from the few of my recent posts). What has Meapak done this game? Tried to get GGQ lynched, and unfortunately that's about all he's tried to do. There is a very aggressive push from him to kill this guy, which I find a little suspicious and slightly out of character.

---

Mafia: Macpo, GGQ, L, Bill Murray, chaosquo, evantrees, Opz, Kingjames, Meapak_Ziphh.

Substitute a few off candidates and I think we've found our 9: Jackal, BrownBear, zeks, Munk-E, other random inactive player goes here.

DONT LOSE THIS POST ITS SO IMPORTANT!

Writing all that I think the usefulness of this post is immediately made clear. The most prominent townies and the ones doing the analysis are all right on most of their reads. It's just each person has found 2-3 mafia on their own, and most of the time they are all different. Pooling this information together I realize it's hard to call anyone and their analysis wrong, as when you analyze the big picture everything fits together.

Anyone in their right mind would look at this game and think "wow this atmosphere is perfect for the mafia". Ver once told me that lots of times it's easier to find the mafia when the town atmosphere sucks because they will not be the ones causing chaos and disruption. Instead they will be sitting on the sidelines enjoying the show while the townies flail around. Look at all the names I've listed above. Everyone (yes everyone on that list) is guilty of apathy and does not have the interests of the town in mind. They are not thinking long term, or analyzing the big picture. They aren't playing the game, they are watching.

Macpo

Many others have said so, and though I may be biased, I still think it's best we lynch him today. I believe his case is still by far the strongest we have at the moment, especially since he has responded to his threats (with even more reason to kill him). At the time of writing GGQ has yet to say anything. We kill him (Macpo) today and spend the night figuring out who has the next best case. In the meantime, I'm going to be looking for connections between the above players to see if anyone can be ruled out or automatically included.

IF YOU HAVE FINISHED READING AND YOU ARE A COMPETENT TOWN PLAYER PLEASE READ AGAIN

Also, after sifting through this information, I feel we have a strong enough lead to start killing like there's no tomorrow.
##Vote: double lynch

On January 13 2012 15:29 ~OpZ~ wrote:

IIRC, Foolishness is one of the few people that actually....supports BM? Besides myself of course. And when you know BM...You just know BM...He's not that difficult of a read. (for Wiggs and Kita) I just think its rather funny Foolishness is pushing for someone else to be mayor, when he himself dies like almost every Day one. I would rather just vote for Foolishness to be completely honest, but Kitaman as of right now is who I'm thinking of. Past games I've played with him we was pretty damned good, and he's actually wanting the position.

Are you planning on be really active Foolishness?

Also, I probably need to go to fucking bed, 1:30EST and I work at 7...-_-

The Mason this game is more just about whispering it looks like. It really isn't that strong in the game. They can't create circles or nothing. They can disseminate roles privately I suppose but the threat is always there that the mason is mafia. As you yourself might be BC. I don't really see too much power in the role as of the moment. Especially if you play the game as such as to ignore pms.

On January 14 2012 06:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm still wondering the proper benefits to the mass mason claim. I'm neutral as again, the role seems rather bland for the town this game. Being a mason doesn't confirm you. I'd like to know the general town consensus.

So far I see Sandroba screaming for mass mason claim. Which I suppose all of the whisperers being public knowledge would be a good thing. But I don't wanna feel like sheep. I suppose theres no way around it though, or that its really important. I'm Mason #2. And I mason'd BC. But he won't talk to me. *cries*

Bill, I don't really think Sandroba is scum because he called for a mason mass claim. So did BC in a round-a-bout way. I personally don't view the role with much power, so I don't know. I've been trying all day to think of a way to make it useful, but seriously, just ignoring pms this game seems the most highly logical play I could think of. I mean, I'm still gonna try and pm you. <3 Ya Buddddddddy. Welcome back.

On January 15 2012 07:23 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I'm changing my vote to mattchew for reasons that I find completely obvious. Everyone else should also.

On January 15 2012 08:22 ~OpZ~ wrote:
I like L's direction his post carries. They like all the extraneous drama that everyone elses had. He's also a notable scum hunter, and very successful at it. I think I'm leaving my vote for him on him actually.

On January 15 2012 03:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:



Mattchew was walking to the post office to send a letter to his friend. He also had his bundle of campaign posters in his bag ready to post around the town. All of a sudden, he noticed a large shadow directly above him. Before he could look up to see what it was, he was crushed under the massive weight of the object. As a crowd gathered 'round to look at the book that fell from the sky, they knew that the Fates had taken matters into their own hands.

Mattchew the Mason has been modkilled.


+ Show Spoiler +

On January 17 2012 13:28 Foolishness wrote:
READ CAREFULLY! DON'T LOSE THIS POST! REPOST MANY TIMES

I am making this post as a way of compiling the thoughts of the few people in this game who are making sense and posting good analysis. A lot of it will be my own thoughts, but it's heavily based on a few people (should be obvious) who are the most transparent and the most obvious townies.

9 Mafia remaining. Here's the preliminary suspects: Macpo, GGQ, L. These are the people I feel we have the best case for and most of the transparent people in the thread seem to agree about these 3. Personally I think GGQ is town and we should avoid lynching him for now. Protact already gave viable reasons why Macpo is better than GGQ today, and I feel there is little to argue there. sandroba pointed out how L is acting like in Ver's game, and I couldn't agree more. We also have Incog's analysis against L.

Secondary suspects: Bill Murray, chaosquo, evantrees. These 3 people have garnered attention from a few people but not from everyone, so they are listed as secondary candidates. I am of the belief that all 3 of these people are mafia. evantrees is already mentioned by Incog. I think Cyber_Cheese highlighted a good summary of chaosquo here. Most of it is similar arguments to Macpo.

Bill Murray as red? I think so. Others have cast suspicion but there's not been a full analysis anywhere. A few people have commented that the election "feels" weird in some way, and I definitely sympathize. The votes for Bill Murray come across as the most suspicious: lots of random votes there. Personally I was surprised he even got into office (remember I was out all day so I saw the results without reading the previous 20 pages). I do realize I may have initially pushed him into candidacy, but I shall take responsibility for that and see to it that he's lynched in the near future. But to be simple: Bill Murray posted a lot, and got into office. Since then he's been pretty passive at the helm (so has BC I realize). That's good enough reason to warrant a ton of suspicion, as he should be actively scumhunting and posting without fear at this point.

Remaining mafia candidates: Jackal, Opz, kingjames, zeks. Incog has an analysis against Jackal as we know. I am not on board with him being mafia yet. Traditionally when he is mafia he posts paragraphs, and not one-liners. However he warrants suspicion for having an apathetic attitude.

Opz is someone who I believe Sheth was the first to cast doubt on, and I must say Sheth is definitely onto something. I know of the past Opz as a town player who is aggressive, not afraid to call people out on their bullshit. That's something we aren't seeing much of this game. He's posted a few of his own thoughts, but there is a clear lack of effort. Bored townie who is facepalming at having to read 100 pages? Possibly. Mafia hiding in the shadows? Fits better.

kingjames is called out on by Incog, and there's further analysis by BC. His last sentence is the perfect sum to kingjames: "The key thing to note is that in contrast to his town play where he is outgoing and analytical, his posts in this game are very subdued, seem artificial and feel overly planned." kingjames has yet to do anything to contradict this.

zeks I felt strongly about yesterday, he made a bad post which is nothing like his normal outspoken attitude (though it's been a while since he's played I think). He has since asked for a replacement and hasn't posted, but should still be looked at in the future.

Meapak_Ziphh is someone I would like to throw out there as a candidate (which shouldn't be a surprise from the few of my recent posts). What has Meapak done this game? Tried to get GGQ lynched, and unfortunately that's about all he's tried to do. There is a very aggressive push from him to kill this guy, which I find a little suspicious and slightly out of character.

---

Mafia: Macpo, GGQ, L, Bill Murray, chaosquo, evantrees, Opz, Kingjames, Meapak_Ziphh.

Substitute a few off candidates and I think we've found our 9: Jackal, BrownBear, zeks, Munk-E, other random inactive player goes here.

DONT LOSE THIS POST ITS SO IMPORTANT!

Writing all that I think the usefulness of this post is immediately made clear. The most prominent townies and the ones doing the analysis are all right on most of their reads. It's just each person has found 2-3 mafia on their own, and most of the time they are all different. Pooling this information together I realize it's hard to call anyone and their analysis wrong, as when you analyze the big picture everything fits together.

Anyone in their right mind would look at this game and think "wow this atmosphere is perfect for the mafia". Ver once told me that lots of times it's easier to find the mafia when the town atmosphere sucks because they will not be the ones causing chaos and disruption. Instead they will be sitting on the sidelines enjoying the show while the townies flail around. Look at all the names I've listed above. Everyone (yes everyone on that list) is guilty of apathy and does not have the interests of the town in mind. They are not thinking long term, or analyzing the big picture. They aren't playing the game, they are watching.

Macpo

Many others have said so, and though I may be biased, I still think it's best we lynch him today. I believe his case is still by far the strongest we have at the moment, especially since he has responded to his threats (with even more reason to kill him). At the time of writing GGQ has yet to say anything. We kill him (Macpo) today and spend the night figuring out who has the next best case. In the meantime, I'm going to be looking for connections between the above players to see if anyone can be ruled out or automatically included.

IF YOU HAVE FINISHED READING AND YOU ARE A COMPETENT TOWN PLAYER PLEASE READ AGAIN

Also, after sifting through this information, I feel we have a strong enough lead to start killing like there's no tomorrow.
##Vote: double lynch