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United States2186 Posts
On June 21 2011 03:57 LSB wrote:
Has there ever been a problem with handing out the role lists?
There have been cheating incidents in the past. I don't know the full details but handing out the role list is only going to cause problems.
In my recent game somebody tried to cheat in it, though I don't know who and didn't really care enough to lead a witch hunt. Some random guy who didn't have mafia forum access (probably a friend, as IP revealed nothing) asked me for the role list even though he had no way of knowing the game was even happening and never replied when I questioned him.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:14 Ver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 03:57 LSB wrote:
Has there ever been a problem with handing out the role lists? There have been cheating incidents in the past. I don't know the full details but handing out the role list is only going to cause problems. In my recent game somebody tried to cheat in it, though I don't know who and didn't really care enough to lead a witch hunt. Some random guy who didn't have mafia forum access (probably a friend, as IP revealed nothing) asked me for the role list even though he had no way of knowing the game was even happening and never replied when I questioned him.
That's the lamest thing ever 
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On June 21 2011 08:56 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 07:14 Ver wrote:On June 21 2011 03:57 LSB wrote:
Has there ever been a problem with handing out the role lists? There have been cheating incidents in the past. I don't know the full details but handing out the role list is only going to cause problems. In my recent game somebody tried to cheat in it, though I don't know who and didn't really care enough to lead a witch hunt. Some random guy who didn't have mafia forum access (probably a friend, as IP revealed nothing) asked me for the role list even though he had no way of knowing the game was even happening and never replied when I questioned him. That's the lamest thing ever
Indeed. The PM was so obviously from a friend who hadn't seen the game too. They didn't even spell the name of the game correctly.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On June 21 2011 07:14 Ver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 03:57 LSB wrote:
Has there ever been a problem with handing out the role lists? There have been cheating incidents in the past. I don't know the full details but handing out the role list is only going to cause problems. In my recent game somebody tried to cheat in it, though I don't know who and didn't really care enough to lead a witch hunt. Some random guy who didn't have mafia forum access (probably a friend, as IP revealed nothing) asked me for the role list even though he had no way of knowing the game was even happening and never replied when I questioned him.
Wow that's kinda hilarious yet really disappointing at the same time =/
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United States22154 Posts
On June 21 2011 12:49 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 07:14 Ver wrote:On June 21 2011 03:57 LSB wrote:
Has there ever been a problem with handing out the role lists? There have been cheating incidents in the past. I don't know the full details but handing out the role list is only going to cause problems. In my recent game somebody tried to cheat in it, though I don't know who and didn't really care enough to lead a witch hunt. Some random guy who didn't have mafia forum access (probably a friend, as IP revealed nothing) asked me for the role list even though he had no way of knowing the game was even happening and never replied when I questioned him. Wow that's kinda hilarious yet really disappointing at the same time =/
I only find it sad, but that's just me.
I just don't see the point of cheating at Mafia of all things, we play because its fun, what fun is it if you have a role list? To "prove" you are awesome? How would you ever get better if you cheated?
*shakes head sadly*
Anyway, I understand the reasoning behind that rule a little better now.
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I thought of another one!
If you plan on following the ban list, check your player list carefully for banned players before starting your game.
Most people do it, but there have been mistakes in the past and it is usually is the newer hosts.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
And don't talk about game-related stuff when you're drunk.
Even if you're dead.
Just don't talk about it.
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On June 25 2011 14:55 Qatol wrote:
I thought of another one!
If you plan on following the ban list, check your player list carefully for banned players before starting your game.
Most people do it, but there have been mistakes in the past and it is usually is the newer hosts.
*raises hand*
I think you must message me one very game I host telling me to ban people.
also flamewheel, lowblowbro :O!
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On June 25 2011 15:20 flamewheel wrote:
And don't talk about game-related stuff when you're drunk.
Even if you're dead.
Just don't talk about it.
Don't try to update the thread or deal with game issues when you're drunk too. It usually doesn't end well.
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On June 25 2011 16:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 14:55 Qatol wrote:
I thought of another one!
If you plan on following the ban list, check your player list carefully for banned players before starting your game.
Most people do it, but there have been mistakes in the past and it is usually is the newer hosts. *raises hand* I think you must message me one very game I host telling me to ban people. also flamewheel, lowblowbro :O!
Well I can't help that you always seem to need it (though that isn't always your fault)!
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Bumping this for general knowledge and updates....assuming that works so I can edit it again....
dangit. GM, can you do something so I can edit the OP of this post?
Everyone just ignore this until I get it updated and freshly looking 
Edit: just going to put the new version here and update the OP later when I'm allowed to:
The purpose of this thread is to lay down some general guidelines to hosting mafia games. After talking with a variety of hosts, I have assembled a list of "rules" that all hosts should be abiding by in their games.
As a disclaimer, I am not trying to single out any particular person as a bad host or whatever. We are all human and mistakes are bound to happen; even flamewheel, Incognito, and GMarshal can attest to their fare share of causing shitstorms because they messed something up.
The list is not all inclusive, nor does it address specific situations.
1) Keep your OP updated.
This is rule number 1 because hosts very frequently neglect this. It is much easier to see the current status of the game and how far along a game is when you only have to look at the first page and see who and what roles are dead. Otherwise one has to check up on all the day/night posts, which can be tedious.
And speaking of which, make sure to link to all the day/night posts as well. Also make sure you have the players' filters somewhere in your OP.
Personally, I like ghost_403's style of OP (see here.) The very first post has the filters and player list (as well as coach information) and then has the flips and important posts in the spoilers. I like this because it's the first post and near the top; I don't have to scroll down and look through the first three posts to find this information. While you don't not have to copy this exactly, it should give a good idea on how to format your OP.
And again, make sure you keep it updated as the game progresses.
2) Do not make unnecessary posts.
As the host, your job in the thread is to answer player questions and make the respective day/night posts (and whichever ones may be required by your game). Occasionally posting is okay, but it is obnoxious when a host is contributing to spam because they are talking unnecessarily.
3) Do not interfere with the game.
Hosts exist to move the game along and not to help players find out the mafia. Things that a host should not be doing include: choosing night actions for afk players, helping players analyze others, and helping mafia pick their targets.
4) Players will try to fish information out of you. Do not help them.
Let's not mince words...some people are jerks, and they will do whatever they can to get an edge so that they can win. You, as the host, will have a hard time giving an unbiased opinion because you know the role list and most everything occurring in the game. This leads to number 4...
5) Avoid discussion with players in the game.
See number 3. Unless a player is asking you a game related question, there is no need to be sharing a cup of coffee while discussing the latest happenings in the mafia game.
6) Send the game setup to Foolishness for balance.
Nothing would suck worse to play in a game only to find out afterwards that your chance of winning was so low you might as well not have played. Someone experienced needs to verify your setup to make sure there are no shenanigans. Make sure to PM me your setup when your game goes up (if not, earlier).
Also keep in mind it's important to build a game that's fun for the players, not just fun for you. Sure it'd be hilarious if there weren't any mafia in the game and you randomly killed people at night, but the players would not be happy when they found out.
7) Do not volunteer information not explicitly asked for.
This rule applies more to crazy game setups (such as pick your power) than to normal games, where it is near impossible to account for every crazy scenario that may happen in a game. The player is responsible for asking the right question, not the host for providing the outcome the player wanted/expected.
8) Do not hand out the role list.
Multiple hosts have agreed with me on this point; role lists should not be distributed to anybody. This includes, but is not limited to: players outside the game, coaches, and dead players. Most everyone is guilty of this (which is okay) but it is for the best if the role lists are not handed out until the game is over. In case of a mishap, it's okay to give it to someone like GMarshal or Foolishness to help resolve an issue.
9) Make sure you check the banlist thread before starting the game.
Should be self explanatory
10) Have a cohost for your game. Make sure your cohost actually does some work (however little).
This is already stated in the Active Games thread, but I wanted to put it in here for emphasis.
11) Double check, triple check, and get your cohost to check the vote count.
A good way to mess up a game is to accidentally kill the wrong person because the vote count was messed up. As there is never an easy solution to this that all parties are satisfied with, it is best to avoid this situation altogether.
12) PM Foolishness when your game ends (or make a post in the Active Games thread).
It helps me to know these things right away to make sure new games are up at the appropriate time.
13) Have fun!
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United States22154 Posts
You can now edit the OP foolishness
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Okay thank you.
IF YOU ARE A HOST YOU SHOULD READ THE OP AND MAKE SURE IT IS INGRAINED IN YOUR HEAD!
And update your OP's after every death! On the double!
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One thing that I'd like to add is for the host to update the full list of roles after the game is completed. Half of the battle in analyzing another players meta is to figure out what role they had in the game you are reading. Adding all the roles to the OP after the game is done is hugely useful to the community as a whole.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back and make sure I did that in my games ^^
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that role list... you all would have been amazed to see mine, flamewheel
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
Holy bump but...when and how as a host should you start hinting that one side should concede? Let's say you're at 10 town and 4 scum, with all the blues dead and the town wandering in circles. Would it be acceptable to ask the town to consider conceding?
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11589 Posts
Always let them play it out.
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Never, ever ask any team to concede. Immediately end the game if they are mathematically eliminated. If mafia all ask you to concede, usually let them. If town members ask you to concede, decline unless many players are asking, then PM each one privately about it.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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On December 09 2013 08:35 P-body wrote:
Never, ever ask any team to concede. Immediately end the game if they are mathematically eliminated. If mafia all ask you to concede, usually let them. If town members ask you to concede, decline unless many players are asking, then PM each one privately about it.
I am sure this (me) is might just be trollin or rollin the barrel, but...
When computing if they are mathematically eliminated, even though forgetting to send in actions actually happens :o, and scum might choose to with hold their shot under some conditions, and sometimes might get when to do that wrong, you are I believe entitled to assume scum don't forget to send in their night kills every night forever. When winning is reducto absurdum trivial from here and basically a waste of peoples time (A mechanical process), the fat lady sings.
A possibility exists (theoretically at least that), while it is obvious to the host that the scum team trivially won from here, you need to be sure that the scum team really know what to do. Hmmm. (artificial example)
A double roled, veteran doctor exists and the scum team really ought know this as its in the open OP (doh).
Scum have 2kp (1 scum vig shot) and must get 1 kill tonight to win. (as then they will also control the lynch)
For Me.
Scum can if they choose fail to realise or think to double stack for the required certain 1 kill. if they get really unlucky and shoot the vet/doc and his protect... they can still lose.(epically)
(I do discount the possibility of scum mistakenly shooting their own team member.... This too has been done, as in yeah N1 boom sucker scum kill a team mate... accidentally.. no purpose at all. He didn't read his Pm properly and didnt open his eyes when scum chose who to shoot. T_T.)
TLDR: be real careful what you assume, as it is possible to think game is over by underestimating how bad the scum teams decisions might be from here. Id err on the side of caution.
It can get little trickier with 3rd parties, in that you need to before the game decide if 3rd parties with special win conditions need to complete those before scum reach "inevitability". I believe it is normally so. I believe I have seen games where it was 'innevitable' that a 3rd party would reach their condition during the process by which the scum would innevitably win(kill all town), but the 3rd party was defined as not winning. (seems little artificial in terms of role playing it out but, as a game, that seems to generally be the best way that i have seen.)
TLDR: be double real careful if you have 3rd parties with weird win conditions such as collecting 3 items or ... if you do that then you will need to know you have very defined end conditions to be sure you know exactly when the game is over and thus the 3rd parties time to achieve that goal is up.
More generally.
The players drive the game the host just built the roads it travels on by decisions that are as far as possible all made before the game begins. I think of it like building titled board with all sorts of obstacles attached to it, then pouring a bag of marbles(players) in at the top(d1) and saying 'weeeeee'. Then you do it again but different if it did not work out so well or you just like fiddling with things.
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EPT
