EPTDeath Factory Mafia - Page 19
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On March 19 2011 11:34 Keifru wrote: My thoughts on pretty much everything I've missed, but first... Here is a big point about using the voting system before burning: It allows the lynched person to state their claim. If we just push them into the fire or throw them off the belt, they have no chance to really claim- bringing people INTO burn/push range would waste our PoP's should we decide to not lynch them post-claim. And I'm against disallowance of claims. What motivation does a townie have to allow claims, if people start claiming it just provides a sniping guide for the mafia. This is even worse in this game when we don’t know the roles; mafia can invent anything that sounds protown as long as it’s plausible. You say that “If we just push them into the fire or throw them off the belt, they have no chance to really claim” come on dude, claiming a powerful role is like the oldest mafia trick in the book to get out of a lynch. A better argument would have gone like this, If we just push them into the fire or throw them off the belt, they have no chance to Defend themselves. If you had made that argument then I would have replied that it’s going to be REALLY hard to kill people because everyone will be hesitant about using their only action. I doubt there will be any massive bandwagons that suddenly appear and sweep someone from the game. On March 19 2011 03:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Your'e relying on the town having a unanimous vote and everyone who votes for different people from the majority are scum. Let's take a look at some past voting charts. <snip> Hey do these votes look unanimous? Imagine if a day ended like this, it's very possible that a person who doesn't have the majority wins the vote. I never said unanimous in any of my posts. I have continuously said majority. And from what I see, all your lists had a majority vote on one person. On March 19 2011 03:20 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Alright I'll try to explain what I mean (again for Keifru). Say I get the majority of the vote but only just the majority. That wont be enough to kill me. Suppose for a second that I'm mafia, it would be soooo easy for them to prevent me from dying even if I won the lynch. Now say that there are a couple of holdouts who think originalname is mafia. They get to kill him because he's so close to the edge. There are always dissenting townies so what is all three people voting for ON are town. They believe that he is scum so they vote him and he dies because of his place. This is what I'm trying to say THE VOTING WONT DETERMINE WHO DIES. [QUOTE]On March 19 2011 03:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: No it's not  How many more times do I have to say this. The person who is voted to be lynched may not be the person who dies. If someone reaches majority they will die. If it takes two days, so be it, but they will die. I've played in games (and actually am involved in another game) with a psuedo-similar method of 'lynching'. If a majority is reached, and they don't die, we arn't going "okay, now who's up"...they're going to get killed. You're taking what I'm saying to specifically; No, voting will not be like any other game and DIRECTLY kill someone, but the majority vote will still end up dead. THE MAJORITY WILL NOT KILL EVERYONE HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT. [QUOTE]On March 19 2011 04:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Let's use this voting tally as an example <snip> Let's say that Pandain is where I am and LSB is where OriginalName is. Look, I won the vote but I'm not dying because of where I am on the chart. Oh look, LSB is dying even though he didn't win the vote, he's dying because of where he is on the chart. [/QUOTE] Again, there is no majority, and therefor I believe there shouldn't be a PoP period. This keeps close people from being sniped by scum or town who are wrong. I would rather a No Lynch than people just pushing to get someone killed. Fair enough so you say that if there is no SUPER majority we don’t lynch?(because in a case like the one above there was someone with more votes than everyone else and therefore would have died.) That’s about the scummiest thing I’ve heard out of you so far (and that’s saying something since you’ve been hardcore tunneling which I consider to be pretty scummy). In a game like this we may never reach a majority, so your advice is to not lynch anyone? Cool! Mafia picks us off one by one till lylo. Dude you need to start reading what I post and stop tunneling, this debate is really getting the town nowhere other than spamming the thread with me saying the exact same thing to you every time you post. I’m moving on. Unfortunately I’ll be gone for the rest of the day so I’ll take this opportunity to ##Pull Rean ##Push Keifru My reasoning is that Keifru has been hardcore tunneling the moment I engaged him. This may seem like a bit of an OMGUS but I would be voting him regardless of who he was tunneling. He’s basically attacked the same point over and over even though I’ve already answered it. I find this repetition to be pretty scummy because it’s just helping the mafia by spamming the thread with useless stuff. Pages of him and me arguing are not very conducive to an active and engaged town. This alone didn’t qualify him as scum in my book until his last post (the one I quoted). He reveals two very antitown sentiments in this post, he is for claiming and supports going no lynch if an absolute majority can’t be made. Claiming is bad. End of story. We’ve seen it punish TL towns sooo many times it ceases to be funny. In this game it’s even worse because everyone has a role but nobody knows what the roles are, thus it’s easy for the mafia to fake a role and blend in. Going no lynch is also bad. If we refuse to use our KP then we just let the mafia shred us every night. It’ll take a while but if we don’t start lynching then the mafia will laugh all the way to lylo. I’m not saying we lynch indiscriminately but we need to start using pushes and pulls. Ace even said at the beginning of the game that the only way to win is by utilizing them. In my mind we have a pretty good target right here. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
 The one thing edits should be allowed for. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 20.[___________] [___________] 19.[___________] [___________] 18.[___________] [___________] 17.[___________] [___________] 16.[___________] [___________] 15.[OriginalName] [___________] 14.[Mr.Wiggles] [Kenpachi] 13.[chaoser] [Eiii] 12.[darmousseh] [bumatlarge] 11.[RoL] [___________] 10.[Meapak_Ziphh] [___________] 9. [kitaman27] [Rean] 8. [Keifru] [___________] 7. [GGQ] [___________] 6. [annul] [___________] 5. [Insanious] [___________] 4. [CubEdln] [GMarshal] 3. [___________] [___________] 2. [___________] [___________] 1. [___________] [___________] PoPs- Day 1 + Show Spoiler + Mr. Wiggles GGQ Push bumatlarge OriginalName Kenpachi Meapak_Ziphh Push Keifru Pull Rean annul Waiting bumatlarge kitaman27 Keifru Insanious Waiting chaoser darmousseh RoL Push kitaman27 GMarshal Push darmousseh Eiii CubEdIn Pull darmousseh Rean Waiting Day 1 ends at 12AM ET/13:00 KST Sunday March 20th | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
It works wonders when adding huge posts. It's RIGHT NEXT to the post button! | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Like others have said, mass claim is stupid. We have no idea what the roles are, and I don't think there's any use to it. Also, question, how many kills should we try to go for today? 1 scummy target and 1 lurker? 1 scummy target, no lurkers? Any one wanna chime in? | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
 ##Pull Keifru ##Push annul | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 20.[___________] [___________] 19.[___________] [___________] 18.[___________] [___________] 17.[___________] [___________] 16.[___________] [___________] 15.[OriginalName] [___________] 14.[Mr.Wiggles] [Kenpachi] 13.[chaoser] [Eiii] 12.[darmousseh] [bumatlarge] 11.[RoL] [___________] 10.[Meapak_Ziphh] [___________] 9. [kitaman27] [Rean] 8. [Keifru] [___________] 7. [GGQ] [annul] 6. [___________] [___________] 5. [Insanious] [___________] 4. [CubEdln] [GMarshal] 3. [___________] [___________] 2. [___________] [___________] 1. [___________] [___________] PoPs- Day 1 + Show Spoiler + Mr. Wiggles GGQ Push bumatlarge OriginalName Kenpachi Meapak_Ziphh Push Keifru Pull Rean annul Waiting bumatlarge Push annul Pull Keifru kitaman27 Keifru Insanious Waiting chaoser darmousseh RoL Push kitaman27 GMarshal Push darmousseh Eiii CubEdIn Pull darmousseh Rean Waiting Day 1 ends at 12AM ET/13:00 KST Sunday March 20th On March 20 2011 03:26 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Hey Ace, he pushed Keifru too. I know ^_^ | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 20 2011 03:28 bumatlarge wrote: Oh ok, I think meapak's push on keifru was negated? And I think you want to pull him the other way, and pull him off the edge since it's a shorter distance with much less collision from everyone. I need to test this out and I wouldn't mind killing keifru either ##Pull Keifru ##Push annul No Bum, it's faster out the front, because if queues are full he goes to the next available spot. So that pull actually did more harm than good if you want to kill him. So to kill by pushing, you'd have to pull on ON, and push him keifru 5 times. To kill by pulling, you have to pull 6 times now, to knock him off the edge. You want to use collision to your advantage. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
People really need to utilize preview function more. Am I the only one who does it for the every single post I make? Alright, leaving now before Ace comes after me with beating stick for posting. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 20 2011 04:01 Hesmyrr wrote: Lurker's Post People really need to utilize preview function more. Am I the only one who does it for the every single post I make? Alright, leaving now before Ace comes after me with beating stick for posting. I use the preview button all the time. [quote.] [/quote.] goes in, quotes come out, never a miscommunication. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
So I'm back, sorry for disappearing last night, I do think this merits attention. so Keifru, care to explain why you aren't moving when pushed? Are we going to have to pull you off the edge if we want to kill you? Or is it something entirely different? Also RoL refused to vote but cast a FoS on Keifru and seid he's cool with pushing him so I'm going to count that as a vote, wiggles cast two votes so I'm only going to count the second one. + Show Spoiler [ vote tally 4] + Vote Tally 1.4 Current Vote Tally 1. Mr. Wiggles (0) 2. GGQ (0) 3. OriginalName (0) 4. Kenpachi (1) CubEdIn 5. Meapak_Ziphh (1) Keifru 6. annul(0) 7. bumatlarge (0) 8. kitaman27(0) 9. Keifru(3) GMarshal Meapak_Ziphh RoL 10. Insanious (0) 11. chaoser (0) 12. darmousseh (2) chaoser GGQ 13. RoL(0) 14. GMarshal (0) 15. Eiii(0) 16. CubEdIn (1) darmousseh 17. Rean(1) Mr. Wiggles Not currently voting: ,OriginalName Kenpachi annul bumatlarge kitaman27 Insanious Eiii Rean Current Vote Leader is: Keifru with 2 votes a majority has NOT been reached Should I count Pushes as votes as well, or not? Alright, I'm off to continue watching the TSL | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 19 2011 20:19 Keifru wrote: I love you too. Hrm, even with 48 hour days, you feel that is still insufficient time for the use of voting to work? What would you say constitutes as 'enough' time? If you have ever seen a democracy actually try to work through an issue you would know that is a fool's question. We could have week long days and would be lucky if we actually resolved exactly what the hell we wanted to do. 48 hours is definitely better, but I still think the proposed voting system is irreparably flawed. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 20 2011 06:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: If you have ever seen a democracy actually try to work through an issue you would know that is a fool's question. We could have week long days and would be lucky if we actually resolved exactly what the hell we wanted to do. 48 hours is definitely better, but I still think the proposed voting system is irreparably flawed. I'm wondering what you propose then? I'm not disagreeing, just wondering what your opinion is, out of curiosity. Should we try to enforce any system, or just go for total anarchy? My only reservation with complete freedom, is that it makes it more easy for us to achieve a situation where no one's lynched, because everyone disagrees, and all the pulls counteract the pushes. Then again, that's just in theory, maybe people will listen to reason in scumhunting. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 20 2011 05:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: So Keifru, since you're fine talking about roles then why don't you explain why we can't seem to move you or put anyone next to you. Also, this. | ||
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Keifru
United States179 Posts
On March 20 2011 04:33 GMarshal wrote: So I'm back, sorry for disappearing last night, I do think this merits attention. so Keifru, care to explain why you aren't moving when pushed? Are we going to have to pull you off the edge if we want to kill you? Or is it something entirely different? Hrm...I can be moved. Its a continous ability that I have no say in turning it off/on. However there is the downside that I divide the pushable to death and the pullable todeath. Make of that what you will- thats about as much as I'm willing to divulge unless I see the usual "L-2, Claim Time" | ||
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Keifru
United States179 Posts
On March 20 2011 02:44 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: What motivation does a townie have to allow claims, if people start claiming it just provides a sniping guide for the mafia. This is even worse in this game when we don’t know the roles; mafia can invent anything that sounds protown as long as it’s plausible. You say that “If we just push them into the fire or throw them off the belt, they have no chance to really claim” come on dude, claiming a powerful role is like the oldest mafia trick in the book to get out of a lynch. A better argument would have gone like this, If we just push them into the fire or throw them off the belt, they have no chance to Defend themselves. If you had made that argument then I would have replied that it’s going to be REALLY hard to kill people because everyone will be hesitant about using their only action. I doubt there will be any massive bandwagons that suddenly appear and sweep someone from the game. From where I come from, it is insanely scummy to lynch someone without their claim. I don't care if its a shoe in or not, I want any person to claim their hypothetical role before they are killed, period. That makes no sense, a "sniping guide"? If we don't believe their claim, they die, woop. If we believe their claim, and they're important, then they could be a prime target for protection and the like. And mate, just because someone claims they're a cop/doctor, etc...that doesn't mean they won't get lynched. THE MAJORITY WILL NOT KILL EVERYONE HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT. "With 17 alive, its 9 to lynch" Fair enough so you say that if there is no SUPER majority we don’t lynch?(because in a case like the one above there was someone with more votes than everyone else and therefore would have died.) That’s about the scummiest thing I’ve heard out of you so far (and that’s saying something since you’ve been hardcore tunneling which I consider to be pretty scummy). In a game like this we may never reach a majority, so your advice is to not lynch anyone? Cool! Mafia picks us off one by one till lylo. Dude you need to start reading what I post and stop tunneling, this debate is really getting the town nowhere other than spamming the thread with me saying the exact same thing to you every time you post. I’m moving on. Ah, just because I believe something different doesn't mean I must be scum. And I'd argue I'm not tunneling, as I'm still paying attention and asking others questions as well- we've just had a continous back-and-forth dialogue that I feel most of the time I'm not getting through to you myself. Its hardly spam at all- quite used to huge walls-of-text back-and-forths between multiple people. My reasoning is that Keifru has been hardcore tunneling the moment I engaged him. This may seem like a bit of an OMGUS but I would be voting him regardless of who he was tunneling. He’s basically attacked the same point over and over even though I’ve already answered it. I find this repetition to be pretty scummy because it’s just helping the mafia by spamming the thread with useless stuff. Pages of him and me arguing are not very conducive to an active and engaged town. This alone didn’t qualify him as scum in my book until his last post (the one I quoted). He reveals two very antitown sentiments in this post, he is for claiming and supports going no lynch if an absolute majority can’t be made. Claiming is bad. End of story. We’ve seen it punish TL towns sooo many times it ceases to be funny. In this game it’s even worse because everyone has a role but nobody knows what the roles are, thus it’s easy for the mafia to fake a role and blend in. Going no lynch is also bad. If we refuse to use our KP then we just let the mafia shred us every night. It’ll take a while but if we don’t start lynching then the mafia will laugh all the way to lylo. I’m not saying we lynch indiscriminately but we need to start using pushes and pulls. Ace even said at the beginning of the game that the only way to win is by utilizing them. In my mind we have a pretty good target right here. Hrm I think I've already adressed the claim point. And the No Lynch one. | ||
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