TL Mafia XXXVII

On February 10 2011 16:48 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Nothing in this set up is final as of yet. Before the game starts some OP information may change.

On February 23 2011 13:33 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Also, I'm just going to point this out, the number of GFs is limited. There is no way there would be 6 GFs, as that would mean 6 mafia KP, which seems a bit ridiculous. The GF is worth 1 KP it says in the OP, so if you assume a set-up of 3 KP for mafia, that means 3 GFs max, 1KP each.

Speculation:
If a grunt is worth say, .5 kp, so not the same as a GF, and fits in line with power costs, possible set-ups become something like:

3GF, 3 mafia total (3kp)
2GF 2grunts, 4 mafia total (3kp)
1GF 4grunts, 5 mafia total (3kp)

I think the last two are more likely, but we should be able to tell more accurately after the first night kills and then after RB claims are in.

On February 23 2011 13:19 GMarshal wrote:
for arguments sake going to create analysis cells, use them for informational analysis
(even assuming I were scum there is no way) I could ensure each has a mafia member in it as there isn't enough mafia to go around (I am trying to put at least 1 TL vet in each) as the game progresses and people die we can have new cells form. (also you are free to create your own parallel cells)

1. Coagulation, LSB, gryffindor
2 GMarshal, seRapH, OriginalName
3 Mr. Wiggles, ICanFlyLow, kevconsim
4 Barundar, LastArgument , why
5 darmousseh, Ser Aspi, Kenpachi
6 Gofarman, chaoser, ohN
7 astroorion, CubEdIn, Jackal58
8 Beneather, annul, Conversion
9 icemac, Foolishness, LunarDestiny
10 deconduo, kitaman27, JBright

This is just a suggestion, but I think it is a good one, discuss

On February 23 2011 15:26 Foolishness wrote:
Did anyone else find something odd about the above post?

On February 23 2011 15:38 Coagulation wrote:
well if gryffindor is bill murray than hes probably making shit up for attention as far as his role claim goes

On February 23 2011 15:38 LunarDestiny wrote:
Voting inactives are bad, but there are people who will only reply if their names pop up. I understand the game just started, but I think pressure voting to get someone start talking is good.

What's bad is that if the person don't respond and bandwagon on that person happens.

On February 23 2011 15:43 Coagulation wrote:
gryffindor ARE YOU BILL?

On February 23 2011 15:46 LastArgument wrote:


As you asked what I found troublesome about this post.

as per the town guide found
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188179

You did what would be as general talking. Rather than being specific with the use of the roles you mention you instead mention generalities. It also a post that lacks emphasis on the fundamental skill in which it has been suggested towns need to play by which is behavioural analysis. This and factoring in your earlier claim makes it seem fairly odd no?

On February 23 2011 15:46 Coagulation wrote:
looks like kenpachi is town this game.
thats a shame.
hes a good day 1 lynch

On February 23 2011 15:59 Coagulation wrote:
i see what your saying.
i see it more as bait for a desperate mafia to bite.

On February 23 2011 15:57 LastArgument wrote:



In your following posts after the one I quoted you only center on GM for a possible red, who is following suggestions found in the link I provided. I also glanced through your posts and you so far have only insinuated that GM as well as mrwiggles.

Your list of "reads" is responding to foolishness, but is also a summary of information found in multiple spots within the mafia forum. Most of it is all spoken generalities, rather than specifics. I know I am not very experienced and running purely on what I have read from threads here but based on that it all seems off.

On February 23 2011 16:29 Coagulation wrote:
Im as pro town as it gets baby

On February 23 2011 16:52 LunarDestiny wrote:
@gryffindor


You are saying that Ser Aspi read you as mafia and tried to convince town and not sucessful in doing do. While I agree that mafia won't recklessly risk themselves at leading lynches, I believe that they want to form a quick bandwagon on town.

But you also said Ser Aspi tried to create a bandwagon which is what mafia wants to do. That should be a scum tell instead of a defense why he is town.

On February 23 2011 16:58 Coagulation wrote:
this early in the game.. and with this level of pressure... mafia tend to wait and jump on town formed bandwagons.. i cant see mafia rising up and starting a bandwagon at this point.

On February 23 2011 17:20 chaoser wrote:


Can you explain why this is a bad idea gryff? Your previous posts on why it's bad (weird, can lead to role reversal) don't really cut it. Roles aren't being revealed and people don't have to follow the list. Isn't it just making this 30 man game into many team mini games? Also, would being in a group with a mafia help a townie or not? More interactions in a more private setting might mean more likely for mafia to fuck up

On February 23 2011 18:01 LunarDestiny wrote:

Ser Aspi attempted to make a well formulated case after putting an FoS out on me.
This is exactly what you said. Then you say that it isn't what happened exactly.

So you put in misinformation on purpose to catch people off guard. Also you can get away with it because afterward you say that it is done on purpose.

If your kind of play is classify as a pro town move, then mafia can use this excuse to slip away after getting caught. Your posts got a lot of lies in them if you keep this up. I know there are pro town lies but consistent lying will just degrade the value of your posts.

On February 23 2011 17:46 chaoser wrote:


Except in this situation if the groups are known publicly, then a blue getting dicked over by role reversal will immediately give town two very big suspects in the form of his circle mates. There's some pitfalls in the plan obviously, but i can see it working if we play it right. It cuts down on lurking/inactivity too and that's usually a big help. Also, why am I not on your list =[

Do you have a plan for town and can you comment on foolishness' statement about now anyone asking for his opinion means they're mafia?

On February 23 2011 23:13 GMarshal wrote:


If you want feel free to RNG the groups, I just made it so each group had at least one veteran player so that new players could get good feedback, if you want you could slide one of the columns up or down a random number to change the groups around

also



I have issues with this post of your gryffindor, 1 it looks suspiciously like the plan that ended up with town getting raped in salem, 2 what benfit do you get from a mass claim when the DTs can be easily fooled? All the other roles don't require any kind of exposure as Vigi and Hatters can use their own discretion and medics should have clear cut choices. What does mass claiming to a "confirmed" (you still haven't set out a mechanism to confirm a townie) do for them other than expose them to getting hit by mafia?

Also I agree that if you want scumhunting you should do it yourself, but like many other things it benefits from peer review, again this is partially to stimulate activity as in PM games newer players often feel left out of the backstage conversations and post less for that reason, its extremely frustrating in that situation.

Also assuming the setup is 5-7 mafia they still have 3-4 kill points which is average for a 30 person game, this means that they don't need to use their role reversing powers successfully to win, they just need to slaughter the town, if they can do that by using role reversal then it will be faster, but ultimately they don't have to.

TBH I think you are town, I just think your plan would cost us the game if we were to follow it

On February 23 2011 23:25 kitaman27 wrote:




PMs are a town weapon. The fact that multiple people are discouraging their use is concerning. Town should be able to extract information from mafia, not the other way around. You force the scum to give an opinion when you directly contact them 1:1. People complain that mafia have too much influence through PMs. How about you use that against them and identify the motives behind what they are saying instead? I don't like the idea of being told which two people I should talk to, but I certainly wouldn't advocate keeping all discussion in the thread.

On February 23 2011 17:26 gryffindor wrote:
The general plan for a town in a whisper/PM setup is
1) Wait on a confirm
2) Massclaim to the confirmed
3) Profit

On February 24 2011 06:29 annul wrote:
also hi. am out of class now

why arent we killing chaoser or GM?

im gonna go ##vote chaoser now myself.

On February 24 2011 10:22 icemac wrote:
Also, I just want to say that these cell things is either big balls move by mafia or the workings of bad play.

On February 24 2011 10:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote:


Quoting so it doesn't get buried. What do people think of this? I find it very interesting for sure. Would any more experienced player like to point out if this is a slip, or if gryf is misleading town?

On February 24 2011 15:14 Coagulation wrote:
I Should mention i talked with ROL in PM and he may have shared some information relevant to the nature of this setup and from what little i could decipher or gather of it so far claiming seems to be the wrong way to go.

On February 24 2011 15:31 LSB wrote:
PMs are great for purposes other than trying to make some kind of ill fated town circle which is going to fail and loose the town the game.

For example, in PM gryffindor just defended Iceman/annul. When annul flips red this will prove very useful information.

On February 24 2011 15:31 LSB wrote:
PMs are great for purposes other than trying to make some kind of ill fated town circle which is going to fail and loose the town the game.

For example, in PM gryffindor just defended Iceman/annul. When annul flips red this will prove very useful information.

On February 25 2011 04:36 deconduo wrote:


You can't get a read on me so you threaten to get me lynchd if I annoy you? Right. Here are our PMs, please tell me what my scummy plan is.

+ Show Spoiler +

On February 25 2011 04:56 annul wrote:
1, bandwagoning. by whom? by you, you mean? because i am entirely certain that i began the wagons on chaoser and GM. called them out ridic early in the game and continued to question the cells idea logic all game. so... ?

On February 26 2011 12:48 Jackal58 wrote:

Unless of course you're gryffinder. Then by all means claim some thing else.

##VOTE: Gryffindor

On February 27 2011 03:18 chaoser wrote:


Wouldn't mafia, if they were trying to redirect off annul, find it easier to pick gryf to stack on? He lied multiple times, changed from no to the PMs to yes to PMs but with his own list. I mean, that's a much easier case to be made than to do it on jackal right? It doesn't make sense to try to push jackal is a viable lynch candidate for mafia when the big juicy target of gryf is there.

On February 27 2011 04:54 chaoser wrote:
I don't agree with you LSB, Jackal wasn't an easier choice than Gryf or icemac. I think at that point, no one had voted for Jackal yet, so for mafia to start a completely new bandwagon instead of using one that already had a decent amount of people in it is weird and not what mafia would do.



So basically you claimed town, you didn't even say "good players" you said "proven scumhunters" aka keep us around cause we'll help town win please don't lynch us or town is fucked. Not to mention you scream for medic protection, making it seem like you're town.



If we're wrong about you being town and you're actually mafia then it's far worse for the town as well.

The whole time you've been building up this image of, don't lynch me town, you're going to get dicked cause you need me via subtle threats to town. BC's guide has stated that we need multiple leaders and not to depend on one guy. By trying to consolidate power in a way that's subtle and a bit underhanded, aren't you just making the town depend on you? That's the worse possible thing for town to do, especially since there's a decent amount of newbies who will sheep. What are you trying to pull? I don't know if you're red but I do know that if barundar flips green, you're the first one on my lynch list.

On February 27 2011 05:03 chaoser wrote:
EBWOP (is that how you abbreviate it? lol):



The only reason mafia would pick jackal over BOTH grfy and icemac is if both of them were mafia and they had to start a new one. So if barundar does flip red, we should pay attention to those two

On February 27 2011 10:29 bumatlarge wrote:
Well I read into the whole annul thing, and it doesn't seem to be an organized bus. Especially with that little squirming performance, but then dropping it quickly in a manner I'd expect from him as scum. I didn't find much to point out on who was leading the accusations, but it does give me a nice ladelful of confidence for the town. Deconduo is not scum I feel, and mostly everyone behind it is likely not. GMarshal is a bit tricky because he seems a little too apologetic, but I've only played with him as town, and he would tend to get apologetic when he isn't inquisitive. Maybe he's just more confident?

Anyway, I think annul is probably the better catches for town to get early. I think town would be better served in pressuring the more reserved since that roster seems fairly slim in this game. I like icemac as a lynch target, and others like him that don't quite cut the bill. They are much easier to tell apart then good townie players that keep their mouths in check but speak when it is right, such as ohn.

LSB is silly.

On February 27 2011 11:45 Kenpachi wrote:
Lynch Targets i feel are Barundar and maybe LSB is Barundar provides good evidence pointing the LSB that hes scum. I dont want to vote Barundar yet cause i thought Annul was townie but ended up being Mafia. We have to pressure the inactives but the one i want to participate is astroorion. he is doing absolutely nothing and should ask for a replacement.

##vote: Astroorion
do something yo.

On February 27 2011 12:29 Jackal58 wrote:
C'mon man. You've been reading every page of this game. What more do you want me to say about Gryf? He's nuts.

On February 27 2011 14:19 Coagulation wrote:



Anybody see the scum slip?

"if im town"

..

On February 27 2011 14:44 LunarDestiny wrote:
Back. Catchup time...

So mafia are targeting experienced players like they always do.

People are talking about annul's lynch and there is a bus on annul. First of all, I don't think mafia would sacrifice one of their member to make others more safe. So those who voted annul early or greatly accused him aren't likely to be mafia. Those who jump onto the bandwagon or voted late without giving good reasons should be looked at.

On February 28 2011 02:36 why wrote:
At the moment I am actually thinking that both Barundar and LSB are town and are just at each other's throats. I just didn't find Barundar's arguments all that convincing, as I read through it I was like "sure, but he could also be town with that behavior". But I don't think Barundar would have posted something that long without being town (and he is fitting his town m.o. of long analysis + conspiracy theories). Of course, now that LSB is defending himself, I feel he is more likely mafia because he isn't considering the possibility that Barundar is town and his only defense is that we should lynch Barundar (really?)

To me, the best explanation of the annul lynch was simply that icemac and possibly gryff are mafia and it was difficult to lynch anyone else. LSB may be mafia but I think icemac being mafia would open up that case a lot (if icemac is mafia then LSB is likely mafia opportunistically taking credit for busing annul after its clear he is going to die). Icemac has also done nothing today and soft defended annul a lot yesterday.

Anyway, for now:

##Unvote
##Vote: Icemac

On February 28 2011 07:00 Jackal58 wrote:

Mod PM's he didn't receive.

On February 27 2011 22:21 Jackal58 wrote:
Barundar, I was strongly suspecting you as being scum creating a "false" argument with LSB. A tit for tat that would sew enough doubt in everybody's mind to allow a 3rd candidate to get pushed to the lynch. But after your Homeric epic on LSB I feel that I must dismiss that idea. I don't believe Scum would go that far in a charade. Instead of believing you both to be scum I am fairly certain one of you surely is. However I am not 100% sure which.
However I will be after today's lynch. As I've said before this is a numbers game.
I am playing them now. Town still has a large numerical advantage. If LSB flips green you are surely scum and will be dealt with tomorrow.

UNVOTE: Gryffindor
VOTE: LSB

On February 27 2011 23:04 JBright wrote:
A lot of interesting arguments are being thrown around, but none of them are particularly compelling enough to throw any one person to the top. For now, I'll go with the possible scum slip and vote for icemac.

##vote: icemac

On February 28 2011 01:55 LSB wrote:
So people are voting for me because I'm too good?

Wow, good job TL Town! Great job!

On February 28 2011 02:01 LSB wrote:

In case you haven't realized, I've already analyzed Annul before, I know how he plays. Secondly, I will say it right now.
I put the most comprehensive analysis on Annul, and without my constant badgering and pushing, annul probably wouldn't have died.


In addition, you completely ignore my town play. My town play = find mafia and kill. There is a reason why I usually don't live to see day 2. Because mafia take me out early.

Your attack is all WIFORM: You are saying "hey what if LSB was scum", well he would play that way. Only problem is it is a complete misrepresentation, my scum play and my town play are completely different, here is a link for how Incog describes it http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190444&currentpage=21#415

On February 28 2011 02:04 LSB wrote:

Hey guys, lets just use our lynch on Barundar, once he flips red, I'll be cleared.

Ezpz.

In addition, this is the same problem with Barundar's push against Jackal58,

+ Show Spoiler +

On February 28 2011 02:04 LSB wrote:
EWBOP

He just reads too much in individual posts.

I know annul red, ezpz. I know Barundar is red. Lynch him and clear me.

On February 28 2011 02:08 deconduo wrote:
Good analysis, I agree with most of the points. However, I can't vote LSB ahead of someone who has repeatedly lied, changed his opinions from black to white and posts like this:





I would also be vary wary of ANYONE posting like this:





Why have the two of you completely discounted the possibility of both of them being town?


@LSB
Thats not much of a defense.

On February 28 2011 02:10 LSB wrote:

Go lynch Barundar and once he flips red that will be my defense.

On February 28 2011 02:17 deconduo wrote:
Yeah, thats enough for me but I'm still lynching gryff tomorrow.

##Unvote
##Vote LSB

On February 28 2011 02:23 Jackal58 wrote:

I haven't. But pressure works better than praise. I'm still favoring gryffindor.

On February 28 2011 02:36 LSB wrote:
I don't like this "I think both of them are town" argument.

Barundar is red. Lynch him.

On February 28 2011 02:42 Jackal58 wrote:

I'm wondering if team scum is ballsy enough to bus two members two days in a row in order to create the illusion that one of you is so freaking town that he can become almost immune to scrutiny.

On February 28 2011 02:44 LSB wrote:
Idc if you think I'm scum as long as you kill Barundar. And then I'll kill another scum for you day three. We cool?

On February 28 2011 02:48 why wrote:
@LSB What exactly is your argument again? As far as I can tell it is "he forced analysis on Jackal to shift the lynch from annul" and now "Barundar's case on me isn't that good". You seem awful sure for that to be your evidence.

Barundar seems to be playing his pretty usual town self, and the conspiracy theory is totally town from him (see XXXV Barundar believes RoL bussed annul).

I have a question: If Barundar is red, then why did he do analysis on Jackal rather than on icemac or gryff yesterday? Both of them had more heat on them and would have been an easier lynch than starting something on jackal.

On February 28 2011 02:49 LSB wrote:


Everyone read this ^

On February 28 2011 02:51 LSB wrote:

He was the one who tried to redirect the lynch from annul, and this is shown as he forced analysis on Jackal.


I've already explained why gryff is a harder lynch. As for iceman, well... it would be interesting if iceman was red. That could explain why annul was reluctant to lynch him.

On February 28 2011 03:20 kevconsim wrote:


I suggest we do this or lynch Icemac.

We can move forward by
1) lynching Barundar
2) lynching LSB
3) lynching Icemac

Those are the only viable ways of moving forward i can see.

I suggest we lynch Barundar today and if he turns out to be town we lynch LSB

If you think they are both town then we should lynch Icemac

Anyways

##VOTE Barundar

On February 28 2011 03:42 chaoser wrote:


Think he's talk about you kev.

Also, LSB, shame on you. Your whole defense has been lynch him first! he's mafia! I'm not! when he flips red you'll see how I'm green. You claim all he's doing is WIFOM but you're doing the same by linking to old games. We can't trust "play style" analysis 100% since smart players will obviously change it up. Or not change it up. That's WIFOM too. Respond to his individual points please, until you do my vote will be on you. He was willing to write a fucking essay; if he was mafia trying that hard, and you're really town, you would try just as hard. So far you're not and so you scumminess is getting higher for me.

On February 28 2011 04:16 deconduo wrote:
Why does everyone ignore me...

On February 28 2011 04:25 LSB wrote:

There is a difference, and it's not what you say.
They arguments are similar as both of them
1) Make assumptions on RoL's picks
2) Assume that Foolishness is mafia

There is a few differences.
My support of foolishness is weak, I recongnize that the argument shouldn't go far
Barundar uses this assumption as central of FOS of me. His argument is that between LSB and Foolishness, foolishness is probably town so LSB must be mafia.


In addition another difference is that I'm not accusing Barundar of being scum because of this argument. The difference is I'm pointing out that Barundar made the exact same argument and it is hypocritical of him to try to accuse me of being scum for using my argument.

On February 28 2011 04:32 LSB wrote:

Of course annul's lynch was a bus at the end. I even agree to that.

The reason why it was a bus was because I shot down all alternatives, and so the mafia couldn't bus anyone.

You are making the flawed assumption that I was just another mafia on the bus. You are trying to figure out my actions based off what others were doing. That's a flawed form of reasoning.

In addition, seriously, LSB bussing Annul? That sounds dumb. Think of it again. If it was DocH bussing LSB that sounds reasonable, but LSB bussing Annul is impossible.


Considering I've been shot night one of every single game where I didn't yell out for medic protection, me yelling for medic protection is perfectly reasonable


What do you mean? I posted lots of good analysis. Do I seriously need to link them for you?

I'm sure your mafia. Why is to scummy to be sure that your mafia? Are you saying that stating my beliefs is a bad thing?


My case on you is based on your forced analysis which is evident through your contradictions and flawed reasoning.

Boom


I've had more than 5 extensive post arguing my case and other things
So if you want to make this a bottle collected game of "see who has lots of good posts", I win.

On February 28 2011 05:49 GMarshal wrote:
I looked through and saw there weren't any great analysis out on you icemac, so for your convenience I decided to write one! no need to thank me!

ok I'm only going to take the relevant posts as people seem to dislike my posts where I look at every post (as usual my commentary in bold)

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +


Verdict: despite some mistakes and somewhat new play I don't think he is scum (last person I said that about was annul, so take it with a grain of salt), so for now I'm going to put him under sheeping town really though you need to start providing reasons for your posts.

On February 28 2011 05:57 icemac wrote:
Oh boy here we go again with the over-analysis. Why so compelled to "defend" me?

On February 28 2011 06:00 icemac wrote:
I just think you're shady.

On February 28 2011 06:43 LSB wrote:

He always plays like this, I'd rather have a DT check used on this.

Case in point, Haunted Mafia. He tried to get people to claim to him, pretended a DT claimed to him when there was none, and then lied repeatedly, gotmodkilled and flipped town.

On February 28 2011 07:07 chaoser wrote:
He ask lied about his PMs with deconduo

On February 28 2011 07:45 chaoser wrote:
AHHHHHHHHHHH GAH!

fuck it, i'm going to vote for the guy i've been suspicious of instead of this LSB/Barundar bullcrap

vote: icemac

On February 28 2011 07:50 LSB wrote:
Voting Icemac because I want to move the lynch off of just 4 people.

Also because Annul was reluctant to move the lynch onto Icemac

On February 28 2011 09:04 Jackal58 wrote:
Well I suppose there is no such thing as a policy vote.
Fair enough.
##unvote
##vote Icemac

He's been doing post and ghost similar to divinek in XXXVI.

And after a day of LSB and Barundar declaring No You! No You! I will take a dim view of people telling me I tunnel.

On February 28 2011 10:52 Jackal58 wrote:

Up until an hour ago neither had you.

On February 28 2011 10:55 Kenpachi wrote:

It's the foolishness way. Do nothing for a long time to avoid getting killed by scum and spring and attack when you least expect it

On February 28 2011 11:01 Jackal58 wrote:

I believe it's my first game with him. How does he play when he's scum?
Do nothing for a long time to avoid getting lynched?
Honest question. This looks like a diversion off of icemak.
Except everybody is jumping on board.
I'm confused.
I don't like being confused.

On February 28 2011 11:34 Coagulation wrote:
neither of them are mafia.

at this point i would say best bet would be to lynch jbright

On February 28 2011 11:35 Coagulation wrote:
he was active somewhat in orgah mafia
hes completely inactive here

Unvote
##vote jbright

On February 28 2011 11:57 Coagulation wrote:
kenpachi vote jbright

On February 28 2011 12:01 Coagulation wrote:
shit

id rather lynch icemac
than LD

On February 28 2011 12:11 Coagulation wrote:
foolishness your case against LD was pretty week.
hes normally an active poster and not acting like that in this game but that is a big can of wifom.

On March 01 2011 18:18 JBright wrote:
Hmm. You're right, that was a pretty long post...with half of it being a quote from you. Just can't win with you. Show a bit of inactivity (actually a lot)...scum. Post a defense of myself....scum. You know what, I'll just have fun for the remainder of my time in this game. I suppose only town would really care so much and be this aggressive, but what do I know.

Don't really know why you keep posting that pic, but I kinda wish I could be a badass prof too.

On March 01 2011 23:52 JBright wrote:


Well, that was something I wrote right before I went to sleep, so I wasn't going to answer any more until later.

Going back to SA's axis of evil, I already gave my (non)opinion on LD, but what about Seraph? Since I haven't been too active myself, I can hardly point my fingers at another low activity player. He seems to come on in spurts during each day/night cycle and didn't have very much to say except for his latest post. I didn't think too much of it, but I suppose the part about the icemac analysis seems strange. There was only ~20 min before the end of voting, so who was he really trying to convince?

Won't be reading this until at least 9pm Eastern, so I'll place my vote now. Since I've already thrown around some FoS, might as well vote for one of them. I believe that townies tend to play more aggressive in terms of scum hunting, so I'll keep my vote off GM and SA for now. If LD does post before voting ends, I could be persuaded to vote for him. I'll just go with gryffindor since he's the third of my gut picks.

##Vote: Gryffindor

On March 02 2011 03:45 LSB wrote:

The lynch sucks

Again, I feel like its another "iceman" esq lynch. This time I don't even think he supported Annul.

On March 02 2011 06:34 Coagulation wrote:


someone doesnt want jbright lynched?

On March 02 2011 07:32 bumatlarge wrote:


Considering all the games in the last few months where I survived past night 2 I've been scum, isn't this a good thing? ;D

I like this post a lot though, I'll be using the voting pattern list you made.

On March 02 2011 09:01 LSB wrote:
I agree 4 KP is overpowered, but I do believe that Jackal is telling the truth.

I still think we should lynch Barundar.
My points about him forcing analysis still stands.

Or we should check out the Iceman lynch day 1 to see if it was actually a bus by mafia.

On March 02 2011 09:04 LSB wrote:
If we trust Annul, and assume that there is one godfather.
4 Mafia left, 1 of which is godfather That leaves mafia with 2.5 KP. Which is a bit suspect, especially since 3 people died night one.

A more standard setup would be 6 mafia, 1 of which is godfather
5 Mafia left, 1 of which is godfather That leaves mafia with 3 KP. Mafia would have used all their KP on hits night one, meaning if they roleblocked both me and Jackal, that means a vig should have hit.

On March 02 2011 09:17 LSB wrote:
Why was the first to point out Icemac, coincidentally he did this after my assault on annul.

At the same time though, he wasn't really a annul supporter and did attack him a few times.

On March 02 2011 11:53 Jackal58 wrote:
JBright is town. kevconsim is scum.
Don't even ask me to explain, analyze, prove.
It is what it is.
UNVOTE: LD
VOTE: kevconsim

On February 24 2011 10:24 gryffindor wrote:

Annul is teamed with gmarshal. When mafia fos someone d1 and vote someone else they are teamed with their fos. On my phone, will catch up more later. This is a huge slip for d1 though, two scum caught possibly.

On March 03 2011 05:02 CubEdIn wrote:
Let me put it another way:

I don't think Jackal is particularly suspicious, I find that other players are suspicious for not trying to make a case against Jackal as well (particularly bum & chaoser).

On March 03 2011 05:22 LSB wrote:
In addition, if I was mafia, why would I claim to be roleblocked? It would only cause more suspicion to myself, especially since (assuming Jackal isn't lying) Jackal would also be claiming

The reason why I claimed to be roleblocked is because it is standard practice for town to claim when they are roleblocked.

In addition, I'm disappointed by the day 3 lynch. When we have very attractive scum such as SeRapH, instead people decide to 'vote for information'?

Lynching for information is horrible. What useful information would you guys get when I flip green?

On March 03 2011 05:24 LSB wrote:

I didn't talk with Seraph, but Gmarshal did say he had a conversation with him.

On March 03 2011 05:36 Coagulation wrote:
I just want to point at that I STARTED THE DAY WITH VOTE ON JBRIGHT People followed and he had a good amount of votes and suddenly suspects are being brought up left and right now

THE AMOUNT OF SUSPECTS THAT POPPED UP FOR DEBATE SO EARLY INTO THE LYNCH INDICATES JBRIGHT IS SCUM.

On March 03 2011 05:41 Coagulation wrote:
HEY Barundar I GOT MY EYE ON YOU AND YOUR AGGRESSIVE SCUM PLAY

On March 03 2011 06:44 deconduo wrote:


I was just about to say that theres a lot of lurkers, especially ohn and LA.

On March 03 2011 09:02 chaoser wrote:


please post more lists that have no meaning because they take out all the context.

On March 03 2011 09:09 deconduo wrote:


I like lists. I'm not very good at doing huge long analyses on people, so I look at little things that other people tend to gloss over. Like voting patterns. Like what wagons people were on and why they changed.

In this case, the three of you have voted the exact same way so far in all lynches. Might be a coincidence but what harm does it do to post it? FYI you are one of the few people I have pegged as probably town.

Also its not out of context because there is no context. It is what it is.

Cover: Cost .5KP makes a player appear as townie 1 night cycle.

Godfather: Night 1 mafia must choose their Godfather(s). The godfather(s) will then choose what role/alignment they will appear as for rest of the game. If not chosen will be RNG'd. The Godfather is worth 1KP.

On March 03 2011 12:53 LSB wrote:
Hmm
That actually would make sense.
4 Grunts, and 1 Godfather.

That is 5 mafia total, so 2.5 KP + the godfather KP, giving them 3.5 KP.

They didn't use their power night one, so that means DT checks from night 1 are mostly reliable.
By using 1+ roleblocks night two, we can soft confirm both me and Jackal

Foolishness
Ser Aspi
LSB
Gryffindor

On March 03 2011 16:40 Barundar wrote:
I like your list gryff, and on the whole I pretty much agree. I also think you are town. Difference between me and you is I look more at tone and arguments than at votes, but both have their right in scumhunting. Your list is objectively strong, it's only if you accept my argument on a day 1 bus on annul, that LSB moves to the bottom of it.

Kevcon voted icemac day 1, but suddenly decided to change to annul. I see him as a mafia busser.

GMarshal, Cubedin and LunarDestiny are players that I am leaning town on from their arguments and tone, but who I have problems with objectively. What have they actually done?

I have been defending OhN and LastArgument in PM's, LA based on day 1 PM behaviour, OhN beceause of his posting. But as they fall inactive and doesn't contribute, my suspecion increases.

On March 03 2011 19:28 CubEdIn wrote:
Good Yob town.

However, as I said before the lynch, we should not lose focus on either of the two.
Also, I think we should have a short discussion of who the Vig should hit (IF he were to hit someone tonight).

Do we have a solid target for a vig hit? I'd like to see people who are lurking go belly-up, JBright included.

I also don't like how Gryph is adding himself on the medic protect list just because he voted for both scum. I mean, I know it's up to the medics in the end, but I find that that move was almost as to say "I'm confirmed town".
Right now, I'm not putting it past anyone to be red, as Mafia seemed to have no issue with busing so far.

On March 04 2011 01:43 bumatlarge wrote:


I assumed when he said round-up, that you could get 4 kills if it was at 3.5. I didn't think you could throw in two roleblocks and squeak out 3 kills with 3.5.

You want to take this outside bro?

On March 04 2011 02:48 LSB wrote:

I don't think Rol would have allowed it.
I think he just said that he would give them an 'extra' .5 action, rather than using an entire KP which is just mad and abusive

On March 04 2011 12:05 Jackal58 wrote:

Why not kevinconsim?

On March 04 2011 12:19 Foolishness wrote:
GG

On March 04 2011 12:53 bumatlarge wrote:
gg lol high fives foolishness o/

On March 05 2011 08:20 LSB wrote:
I'm fine with that
##Vote GMarshal

On March 05 2011 00:17 CubEdIn wrote:
Ok Gryff, answer me only this:
If you were mafia and you wanted to kill Foolishness, would you only use one KP?

I don't know who's putting you on Solid town, as I didn't hear people around here coming to defend you at any point. I'm just saying, you're not addressing any of the accusations I made recently, you're using pure WIFOM "If I were mafia, would I not shift vote"??! Well I don't know man, is JB green??!? Because if they're both red it doesn't really matter who you voted for, right?

Cuz I'm sitting here trying to defend against people that automatically assume that JB is green/blue, and I have no freaking idea why that is.

On March 05 2011 07:10 chaoser wrote:
Lynch LSB. If he's vigi then we have 100% confirmed in LA being a vet since I doubt medics protected him. If LSB is red then LA is red too.

On March 05 2011 07:14 GMarshal wrote:


Also LSB I call shenanigans if you wanted a vigi to shoot Barundar then you could have done it yourself, why didn't you? You have been calling for that shot for two days now, interesting that you didn't take it.

I suspect you aren't a vigi at all but a mafia godfather

On March 05 2011 07:16 LSB wrote:
Um... why would I shoot Barundar if another vig was going to do it?

On March 05 2011 07:27 LSB wrote:
We were clearly discussing vig hits, and I'm going to put my suggestion of Barundar in there. It's a waste of town KP I shot Barundar twice. -.-
What's so hard about that? It's my dominate strategy

I have no idea about a second vig, but hey, I didn't have any problem with shooting LA at the time so I did it.

On March 05 2011 08:40 LSB wrote:
green=town aligned?

I don't understand why you guys are making these silly points -.-

On March 06 2011 02:10 kevconsim wrote:
im not scum
im townie
the one with the green text

On February 23 2011 13:47 gryffindor wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
This would get us raped by the role reverser, and is really a scummy idea
unvote;
##Vote: GMarshal

On February 23 2011 13:50 GMarshal wrote:


did you not read the part about it being only for analysis? There will be no roleclaims in those circles, unlike you not all players feel the urge to announce their blue status to make themselves targets for mafia.

Are you tired or are you playing stupid intentionally?

On February 23 2011 14:09 gryffindor wrote:
Oh, so now you have to dip into Ad Hominem
Go ahead and crossvote with me, mafia
I'm onto you
You are playing completely differently than I saw you as town

On February 23 2011 16:11 gryffindor wrote:
initial reads:

people to keep alive:
gryffindor
foolishness
coagulation
kenpachi
ser aspi
-cut-

On February 24 2011 19:21 gryffindor wrote:
-cut-
I would rather lynch someone through my proper sleuthery in finding tells that they have made, such as the associative tells between GMarshal and Annul that I found, which is enough for me to be happy with where my vote is.

Couple that with the fact that both have had wishy-washy voting/pushing, and with the incrimination of icemac, and I'd be surprised if two out of three weren't scum. Foolishness, however, disagrees with me on this.

His loss!

On February 24 2011 10:24 gryffindor wrote:

Annul is teamed with gmarshal. When mafia fos someone d1 and vote someone else they are teamed with their fos. On my phone, will catch up more later. This is a huge slip for d1 though, two scum caught possibly.

On February 24 2011 20:42 gryffindor wrote:
Deconduo, do you see how a scum could propose a cell idea?

On March 05 2011 17:40 gryffindor wrote:
-cut-
The only thing that is making me hesitant is the quickness of this wagon
-cut-

On March 06 2011 08:06 GMarshal wrote:
Well, at this point I'm 100% chaoser isn't scum, if he is he has put in so much effort into making his pms consistent and logical that he deserves to keep my vote. Sorry LSB, but I refuse to let you get away with this justification for lying, if it really is an elaborate town plan then you should have tested it for inconsistencies before posting it, the whole hanging the vet proves nothing point is pretty strong.

Now if I'm wrong again and choaser flips red well then on my head be it. But I dont think thats going to happen

On March 06 2011 08:10 GMarshal wrote:


Night 1 you say?

assuming the poor sod is still alive though, you have no reason to kill him, you get to "suggest" who he protects, and look that way you don't have to double stack foolishness. or really worry about his protects.

On March 06 2011 08:16 Barundar wrote:
Lolololol, I can post Skype conversations from the entire game with Chaoser for us discussing targets. Now you are really trying hard

On March 06 2011 08:18 LSB wrote:

I could post AIM conversations from the entire game with BC discussing targets. Now you are really trying hard.

Oh wait, I was mafia that game.


I could post PMs with Doctor H from the game discussing targets.

Oh wait, I was mafia that game.

Posting PMs to try to prove your town does not work and is a common mafia tactic.

On March 06 2011 09:53 GMarshal wrote:


That should be a pretty good hint that its a desperation ploy rather than an actual plan, good plans are planned with time to actually work rather than pulled out of thin air with a few hours left. LSB of all people should be well aware of this

On March 06 2011 09:54 Coagulation wrote:
IM THE MEDIC I MEDIC PROT HIM LAST NIGHT AND BLOCKED A HIT.
LSB IS CONFIRMED TOWN.

On March 06 2011 10:05 Ace wrote:
hahahahahahahahahahahaha

On March 06 2011 12:06 Coagulation wrote:
people who voted to lynch LSB
LSB
Barundar
gryffindor
deconduo
why
chaoser
kevconsim
GMarshal
ohN

On March 06 2011 12:07 Coagulation wrote:



DUDE IF YOUR NOT MAFIA THIS GAME YOU HAVE HANDS DOWN PLAYED WORST TOWN GAME EVER POSSIBLE.

DEFEND ANNUL SOME MORE?
DEFEND CHAOSER SOME MORE?

On March 06 2011 12:07 LSB wrote:
^you forgot Seraph

On March 06 2011 21:31 CubEdIn wrote:
Wow, 10 pages.
That was a desperate attempt to keep lynch on LSB.
Almost too desperate, compared to what happened so far in the game. Makes me think that GM/Barundar could just be really stubborn townies.

But on the other hand, the mafia would put up a fight when there are only four people left, so at least some of the "anti-LSB" band must've been red. I'm still highly suspicious of gryffindor and kev atm.

On March 07 2011 13:29 LSB wrote:
LAL? Well, Mr. Vet/Medic/Greenie, we have a liar here

I don't care what you think Bus means. Here I call it, and the majority of players call it what I mean. We are not MS. There's no silly 'tells' we go by, weird acrynoms are generally frowned on, and gameplay here is a lot more fun.

Oh yeah, I forgot about you soft defending annul day one. Thanks for pointing that out

And I don't see why you are resorting to the 'I do more work than you so I am town"
If I recall correctly, that was last used to defend Barunder. I swear chaoser was the one that said it

Unfortunately for me I'm practically the only person that can do that (LSB ain't that good yo).

On March 07 2011 23:34 Jackal58 wrote:


You've claimed Medic and Veteran. If you were a medic you would have died last night. The hits from mafia last night make absolutely no sense. Almost like you picked them.

You've asserted that LSB is a liar and should be lynched for that after you became a MOD confirmed liar yourself. I put on a push to save LSB and lynch a red yet you still float accusations of LSB and I both lying. Why would a townie do that? Oh that's right he wouldn't.

You have chosen a brilliant way to play scum but like I said before an insanity defense rarely works.

Oh and we have 36 hours to mourn your upcoming demise.

On March 08 2011 00:13 LSB wrote:

Don't try metaing the godfather. Its impossible

If you think that the mafia is dumb enough to place an entire KP on someone who would be an obvious gf choice, you must not have been playing with the right people.

If I was mafia this game, I'd hide the KP with a lurker. Someone like oHN or kevcousin. Lurkers usually don't get killed after day 1.

The only potential 'godfather' in you perception os Cubed1n, but I fhinj its a horrible idea to start lynching active members when we need to prepare for lylo.

Btw, called it, you still think I am mafia.

On March 08 2011 09:58 ohN wrote:
Seems to be a pretty strong case against gryff.

##Vote: gryffindor

On March 08 2011 09:41 GMarshal wrote:
well since coag PMed me such a convincing argument I may as well

##Unvote
##vote gryffindor

I'll just note for the postgame that the LSB, coag circle hasn't actually been confirmed, but the chances of LSB busing 3/5 or 3/6 of his teammates is rather slim, no?

On March 08 2011 11:57 GMarshal wrote:
well gryff I *was* going to defend you, but I realized that that would probably not be doing you a favor.

On March 08 2011 12:08 Coagulation wrote:
and i still dont understand why you sat out the whole LSB vrs Chaoser thing

On March 08 2011 12:05 Coagulation wrote:
you shoulda defended yourself sooner.

On March 08 2011 12:08 Coagulation wrote:
and i still dont understand why you sat out the whole LSB vrs Chaoser thing

On March 09 2011 03:16 Jackal58 wrote:

All scum admit they're green.
All scum claim atrocious town play.
You are dead.

On March 09 2011 03:33 CubEdIn wrote:
And if you're red, then I'm pretty sure ohN is red as well, because you're trying pretty hard to act like you want him dead. Either him or LunarD.

Original Message From Coagulation:
i dont want to lynch you if your town. i need to organize a mass claim to me
whats your role and how did u use it?

On March 08 2011 02:28 gryffindor wrote:
now that's a stretch if i've ever seen one
i'd like to see instances where he FoSed every person on that list
he voted chaoser, not fos
he definitely did fos gmarshal... in the same post he votes chaoser... why is WHY I LYNCHED HIM.

his push on me was really, really late. Why would mafia counterwagon mafia? Why would I vote for scum if I was scum when it was 5-5 and icemac is proven to have been a townie, now? he was at 5 votes when I voted annul who was at five votes, and I wouldn't vote mafia at five votes when I have a perfectly good townie to wagon at five votes if I was mafia. I don't bus, sorry bro, that's not in my meta.

The only time I would bus would be a hammer, when all is completely hopeless, but TL doesn't work that way. The wagons are usually pitifully small and shift with a small breeze.

I am ashamed of your play so far today, Jackal.

On March 08 2011 04:03 Jackal58 wrote:
Who would claim veteran on day 1 and ask people to claim to them?


Scum would.

Who would claim medic openly?


Scum would.

What medic would survive such a claim?

Scum would.

Who would continuously quote their own nonsensical posts to prove points that were made at the last lynch?

Scum would.

What Godfather would not hit a confirmed medic in Coagulation?

A crazy one.




If you're town vote gryffindor

On March 09 2011 08:16 Jackal58 wrote:

I never said you were abrasive. Your game play is for lack of a better word - weird. Actually I think I called it insane.
And yes if it is for the better good of town I will gladly die.