|
also LOL @ mafia spend kp on Kenpachi
|
Yeah, I liked that too. I was very suspicious of him.
|
Vancouver14381 Posts
On February 28 2011 09:04 Ser Aspi wrote:god what a mess. I go away for the weekend and this is what's happened? How did we ever get annul Lets break this down and look at it objectively. 1. We lynch annul. 2. Mafia are incapable of getting the lynch off of annul. This means they do not have players who are prominent or have a lot of influence. 3. Suspicion turns on the most prominent players who are active and have influence. Logic does not compute. We should be targeting the INACTIVES, or the fakers at least because they would be the ones who could not get the lynch off annul. But no of course not you have to go for the most prominent people on the off chance that annul might have been bussed. Why the hell would mafia deliberately sacrifice a member on day 1 when they have an assured green lynch normally. Town cred is really not that important. Shut up with the conspiracy theories. Yes LSB/etc might be mafia. But what is more likely. LSB/Barundar, PROMINENT PEOPLE, are scum, or joe2 posts is scum? Simple solutions work best. Granted LSB has a bit of a negative influence on the town because he keeps trying to hype himself up to absurd proportions far out of alignment with what he did, seriously hes like a professional marketer, but that's not remotely worthy of a lynch. How about this. I got someone better.
##vote: jbrightWhy? He only has 4 real posts, a dodger vote, and he likes to talk nonsense and ignore the big arguments. Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 12:07 JBright wrote:
So far the game has been dominated by a few very vocal players, but I'm not sure how much progress we are making since it seems they're mostly arguing the about the same thing again and again.
Yes, there are a few inactive players (myself included up to this post). I will probably give one of them a pressure vote until they post or a substantially better candidate pops up. Maybe I'm a bit naive or just inexperienced at this game, but none of the posts so far seem too scummy to me. Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 14:27 JBright wrote:
Yay town. Looks like I ended up wasting my vote on myself since I forgot to change my vote.
If annul did slip up and there are up to 5 members in a mafia family...does that mean we could potentially have 1/3 of the players as mafia with only 2 families? Since this is a punishment game in some sense, I think that there must be more difficulties than just the special scum powers. Having potentially 10 scum means that it'll be more dangerous to trust the people in PM circles than expected if we do get around to forming them. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how night 1 goes and play from there. Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 15:36 JBright wrote:On February 25 2011 15:16 seRapH wrote:On February 25 2011 14:27 JBright wrote:
Yay town. Looks like I ended up wasting my vote on myself since I forgot to change my vote.
If annul did slip up and there are up to 5 members in a mafia family...does that mean we could potentially have 1/3 of the players as mafia with only 2 families? Since this is a punishment game in some sense, I think that there must be more difficulties than just the special scum powers. Having potentially 10 scum means that it'll be more dangerous to trust the people in PM circles than expected if we do get around to forming them. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how night 1 goes and play from there. Do you seriously believe this? Do you really think annul would "accidentally" let slip how many mafia there are? I know its wifom but I'm more inclined to believe that there are more than 5 mafia. Two families... I have no idea where you came up with that. 2 families of five pretty much DOOM the town of twenty completely. Also no I don't actually believe icemac's mafia, but was happy to see the pressure rising on him. I was not, however, pleased with the lack of reaction he gave. Icemac, please prove me wrong this game and don't be useless. This is my second game and I really have no idea what to expect... I've read somewhere that there could be games with competing mafia families, but I guess that not a common occurrence here. As far as the "slip" goes, I guess it really is going to be wifom. If that gave away too much information (as to spoil the game), one of the mods could have potentially edited it out. But now that so many people have seen it, any modifications would be extremely suspicious. As a general rule, it is probably true that scum lie a lot. But even 5 mafia members seem like a good approximation (if 10 is too much), although it is definitely safer to assume that 5 is the lower limit of the number of scum. Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 23:04 JBright wrote:
A lot of interesting arguments are being thrown around, but none of them are particularly compelling enough to throw any one person to the top. For now, I'll go with the possible scum slip and vote for icemac.
##vote: icemac You reference multiple times how newbie you are. Gee, why would you do that. I saw this a lot on other mafia sites and guess what, scum almost every time. Townies wouldnt need to do that, but scum sure might. Next, what have you actually said. WAit, I got it. NOTHING. In your several paragraphs you have written absolutely nothing zilch nada of value. You pressure vote some safe inactive lynch and dont take a stand, note that you are inactive very early on, and don't do anything about it. Inconsistency much? You don't take sides, you dont have an opinion that means anything, and you dont really care about whats going on. It's like you're off in your own little la-la-land aka scum irc channel chortling. Half of your "contribution" involves hypothesizing about some fantasy where there are two mafia teams lol and maybe a mod edit or something but you dont really know? That alone doesnt mean enough, you could just be stupid, but with everything else, it aint looking good brodooski. You then do absolutely nothing with your vote today. You dont take a standard, you dont take a side, you just say "HRM I DUNNO ILL VOTE THIS GUY CAUSE I DONT KNOW AND DONT CARE ABOUT THE TOWN TO WANT TO KNOW" To top it off I looked at the last game you played, orgah mafia. You were a town so far as i can tell with those screwy rules, and none of these habits showed up. You posted decisive stuff man. You didnt bullshit about how new you are. You didnt make excuses. But now you are. Guess why? Cause you're scumHere are some portions from his town play: + Show Spoiler [orgah] +On February 12 2011 10:56 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2011 02:47 kitaman27 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 11 2011 15:35 JBright wrote:
Since everyone has a specified role to take, will looking at past games still be important for analysis? People could be playing up their characters and forcefully change their posting habits, but that's hard to tell. Can you guys cut it out? I'm starting to think you're doing this on purpose..... Show nested quote +On February 12 2011 10:36 Misder wrote:
To all those that have played pevergreen's previous games- are there any chars that are assumed scum? Whoa there. Don't know if those are just part of your characters, but you don't have to start accusing people as mafia just because of it. A character and someone's alignment should be completely separate things (at least that's what I think), so no need to jump the gun. Hmm, so far the votes are still looks to be pretty distributed other than Zerroth. Unless something drastic happens within the next 7-8 hours, he will probably be lynched. I guess I'll just vote for someone who is inactive but still have no votes yet. Vote: Insanious On February 13 2011 03:31 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 02:37 deconduo wrote:Interesting. Twins are usually of opposing alignments so I had a look at Lunar's Posts: + Show Spoiler +On February 11 2011 10:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
Ok. I got a fucked up pm. AND my character happens to be gay. WTF. On February 11 2011 10:07 LunarDestiny wrote:
Everyone, first find your character here.
forums.totalwar.org/vb
I found mine pretty easily. Also will name claiming be any help in this game? On February 11 2011 13:01 LunarDestiny wrote:
Coag is actually very good at scum hunting. He played ton of games.
He just don't like to write long post to convince others. On February 11 2011 13:13 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2011 13:03 thefluffyone93 wrote:
I say pever, you didn't burden someone with the role that forces the player to write in huge, multi-colored text, and occasionally post meme pictures, did you?
Because that would be very.....annoying. Put foot in mouth.I herd you liek me, so I put me into me to make meme. On February 11 2011 13:28 LunarDestiny wrote:
There are also no ‘joker’ or ‘actor’ roles. No one will obtain victory by being lynched.
Just want to restate this because I will be force to do a couple of things very silly. My character is fucking stupid. On February 12 2011 05:17 LunarDestiny wrote:
I will be busy throughout the first day. I'll catchup on monday (day2?).
I see people are exerting huge pressure on one person. To me, Zerroth is playing the lurking/inactive style like the last game. It'll be great if it will make him more active but it is like mafia can slip by unnoticed if it stays like this.
Also placing a vote to avoid modkill.
Vote: LunarGotNoDestiny
He made no particular effort to change the lynch which leads me to believe that he didn't know he was linked to zerroth. Considering it took a measly 5 votes to lynch zerroth it doesn't look like mafia (or any other party) made a significant attempt to redirect the lynch. Another point to notice is that there was only 16 real votes placed out of 30, and these were spread out over 11 candidates. This is shockingly bad play. We need to be a lot more united to make any headway in this game, especially considering that there are probably several ~3 person factions with alternative victory conditions. If we allow scum/3rd party to lead the lynch wherever they want we are totally screwed. I know this was day one and there isn't a lot to go on, but we seriously need to pick it up a bit. I've thought about the different alignments for twins as well, but it will be hard to determine anything, other than suspicious play, until the first night is over. The activity so far in this game has come in waves...a whole bunch of posts in a short period and then nothing for a few hours. I'm still curious as to why Coagulation didn't put down a vote. Several players' votes were discounted (late or wrong format) but they at least tried. A second day without votes would mean a modkill, so I'll be looking closely at those people for the second day. On February 14 2011 08:23 JBright wrote:
It's been surprisingly quiet for this day cycle. That makes the voting a bit harder. Since the first set of modkills can potentially happen tonight, I'll try to vote for someone who has a counted vote for day 1. Hmm, the OMGUS votes from beefy and thefluffyone seems kinda weird to me (they responded in a similar manner, but could be part of their characters). Since fluffy already has a vote, I'll go for beefy.
Vote: Beefy187 Look how he actually takes a stance. Yes he has weird penchants but he doesn't vote the bandwagons and has the guts to state his own opinions and make real choices. Folks this is a guy trying to hide and pulling it off because you are so concentrated on trying to chop off any blade of grass that grows above the rest. Im coming for you scum. Annul[ and his broomstick Jbright
I would consider a pretty accurate analysis of my personality...indecisive and outspoken. Just to clear up the difference in play during Orgah, that was a game where we have to roleplay as a different character. I was supposed to complain about being mafia since I've been unlucky about drawing mafia for the past few games. Although I was more active during that game, I do believe a lot of my posts were questions and not analysis.
On March 01 2011 12:56 GMarshal wrote:Alright my friend JBright you posted a little something that makes my blood boil, namely this Show nested quote +On February 28 2011 23:08 JBright wrote:
There isn't all that much for me to say in this situation. I think my play so far have been a hindrance to town - at best a bad townie and at worst a lurking scum. Both situations won't bring me to a situation of being nightkilled, so I'll assume that I'll be up for a lynch by the next day cycle if there are no better candidates. Why would you do this? if you really are town then you are making us waste a lynch on you and you are wasting your vote, remember every townie we lynch brings us four deaths closer to lylo, so if what you are saying is your real attitude, then not only are you wasting your potential to analize or at least think, but you are wasting town KPs on you when we badly need them to kill mafia. I can undertand that the thread is intimidating, especially when you see people with 6000 posts posting these biblical length posts, but in the end your vote is worth the same yours is, all you have to do is think critically and post what you think. No one is demanding you be right, no one is demanding you post homeric epics that clearly prove who is scum, all I want you to do is use logic, and post what you come up with. Please if you really are town then dont make us sacrifice 4 townies (you + 3 night kills) because you don't want to think, or post your thoughts. Its ok to be wrong, its not ok to not commit. So I'll ask you JBright, what do you think of LD as a lynch? If you had to lynch someone within the next hour and your vote decided it who would die? Is there anyone who you think is certainly town, anyone you think has to be scum? Come on man, the game is no fun if you give up on us.
I'm not giving up on the game, just keeping things in perspective. I consider myself better at thinking about the situation than doing psychoanalysis on forum posts; there are just too many subtleties in writing that I can't pick up.
As to what I think about LD? I believe the main arguments against him by Foolishness were 1) not as active in a previous game and 2) inaccurate PMs. I'm not really sure how useful #1 is since people do do things outside of TL mafia and we cannot control that. I believe someone else already mentioned that most people show tendencies in their play, but an experienced(?) player such as LD should know better. #2 is more damning and his subsequent responses were not that strong. I suppose this is as close of a "read" as we've got on a player other than the back and forth between LSB and Barunder.
If I had to go and pick someone to lynch under pressure, I supposed I would actually go with you, Ser Aspi, or gryffindor. I don't have anything to back it up since it's just a gut feeling, so this is just throwing my random FoS out there. Actually, it could just be a delayed omgus feeling for you and SA...
There should still be ~4-6 scum left (depending on which numbers are used - bum's possibility states 4 while chaoser's possibility states 6) out of 19 remaining players, I don't feel ~66-80% is a good enough probability to be certain of who's town. Anyway, confirming town isn't as useful as hunting scum since it'll lead to worshiping.
On February 16 2011 05:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
TL Meta is based around roleclaiming, worshipping "confirmed" townies, and sheeping under an experience player
LD could potentially be a good vote but I want to hear more from him to really decide if he's scum.
|
That just confirmed it scum. You're going down. I am not letting you out of my sight
Let's break down exactly what you said. Cause most of it is just irrelevant fluff and we need a translator for scum posts.
1 "my personality is indecisive and outspoken." Except you arent outspoken this game at all, you are the opposite. Mafia are also much more inclined to deflate themselves to compensate for any guilt or to avoid suspicion in my experience.
2 "im not giving up im just useless but dont blame me for it!" You say you are better at thinking about the situation, but you have given almost no input about situations. In other words you are bullshitting to save your ass.
3 "ima restate foolishness's arguments and add a little confusion to them. I need to make sure i say 'im not sure' a lot so people dont call me out on anything i might say"
4 "ima put doubt on some people with absolutely no reasoning to back it up but wait dont take it too seriously i dont want any backlash!1!111!!"
5 "random probability crap." wtf this doesnt mean anything just more nonsense
6 "add in some completely unrelated dr h quote and talk about worshipping confirmed innocents to make your post look cooler and longer"
7 "LD might be good to kill but i dunno ill wait for him to post so i can change my stance without looking bad"
You said that little in one of the largest posts in this thread. WTF?
You post no real strong opinion and you don't want to take a stance. You just stated a bunch of garbage and tried to avoid getting blamed for how useless you are. You still don't care about the town, but, this time, you are trying a lot harder to make it look like you are.
In the same vein that is a post considerably longer than any post I have found of yours in any game. Like, many times larger. Guess what, you felt the heat and OVERCOMPENSATED. You probably even had your buddies help you out in constructing it.
##vote: Jbright
Don't worry about LD, Seraph or anyone else. This guy just gave himself up and we can only kill one guy at a time. Don't split the vote and let the mafia choose who to kill. One guy at a time.
I am coming for you.
|
As to what I think about LD? I believe the main arguments against him by Foolishness were 1) not as active in a previous game and 2) inaccurate PMs. I'm not really sure how useful #1 is since people do do things outside of TL mafia and we cannot control that. I believe someone else already mentioned that most people show tendencies in their play, but an experienced(?) player such as LD should know better. #2 is more damning and his subsequent responses were not that strong. I suppose this is as close of a "read" as we've got on a player other than the back and forth between LSB and Barunder.
Again, I have no response to my irregular posting behavior. I usually post a lot in the thread but I tried to cut my spam to minimum in this game. Comparing this game's activeness and aggressive of scumhunting to my previous game (XXXVII) is tricky. First, I was SK in that game who was protown(reason is TL town generally sucks). Also look at my posts that game. I believe a huge portion of them are me trying to scum hunt with clues. I didn't do much analysis that game. I ask any of you to look at my past games (my profile includes them) and compare them to this game. Compare how many analysis there are and how many of the posts are just spams.
The second part is the pm thing. I'll describe what happened, Foolishness can disprove me. If you want the pm chain, refer back near end of day 2.
-I found out that I received a pm from Foolishness asking me to vote annul to pressure him. The reason of this pressuring is to compare his playing style here to XXXV where he was scum.
-That point, I didn't do much research about annul and explained to Foolishness I can't wagon him because I spent most of my post talking about hating bandwagon. However, I DID say this "However, I can help call Annul out by posting how he is playing like he was in XXXV where his postings are similar since they are not logical.".
-He gave an apology pm saying he should read a bit of my post before asking.
-This is where I screwed up, I did not do what I said about relating my post to call annul up to XXXV. I just look back at the easily post to call annul out which was the little explained vote change and used that to call him out.
-There was no reminder from Foolishness that I didn't do exactly what I said and I quickly forget about it. It is not what I don't want to do. If he give another pm me about I didn't talk XXXV and annul's behavior, I would write another post calling annul out.
Man if you guys think that is scum-like, I have nothing to say.
|
Vancouver14381 Posts
Hmm. You're right, that was a pretty long post...with half of it being a quote from you. Just can't win with you. Show a bit of inactivity (actually a lot)...scum. Post a defense of myself....scum. You know what, I'll just have fun for the remainder of my time in this game. I suppose only town would really care so much and be this aggressive, but what do I know.
Don't really know why you keep posting that pic, but I kinda wish I could be a badass prof too.
|
On March 01 2011 14:16 Coagulation wrote:
also LOL @ mafia spend kp on Kenpachi
That's exactly what I thought when I read the post. 
And no, I did not shoot Original Name.
GM is right though, I did suspect him a lot, mostly because of that bus-vote on LSB, but I didn't shoot anyone.
If I were a Vig, I would save my hit for someone more important, who I couldn't get lynched by making a case towards the town.
|
@JBright if you are town, then you keep fighting. Popping up making 1 post defending yourself and then giving up isn't good enough. Why don't you start contributing instead?
If I were a Vig, I would save my hit for someone more important, who I couldn't get lynched by making a case towards the town.
I lol'd
|
"one of the largest posts of the thread" just looks that way due to quotes
it is really only around 21 lines of actual content
|
On March 01 2011 18:18 JBright wrote:
Hmm. You're right, that was a pretty long post...with half of it being a quote from you. Just can't win with you. Show a bit of inactivity (actually a lot)...scum. Post a defense of myself....scum. You know what, I'll just have fun for the remainder of my time in this game. I suppose only town would really care so much and be this aggressive, but what do I know.
Don't really know why you keep posting that pic, but I kinda wish I could be a badass prof too.
"only believe town could care"
yet you're acting like you don't care, here
contradiction!
|
On March 01 2011 13:04 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 11:53 Ser Aspi wrote:Some more bad posts: On March 01 2011 04:42 LunarDestiny wrote:On March 01 2011 00:31 deconduo wrote:On March 01 2011 00:19 Jackal58 wrote:On February 28 2011 20:13 deconduo wrote:First of all we have Jackal. He claimed posting PMs is scummy. When asked to explain the logic behind it he dodged the question twice then posted this gem: On February 25 2011 01:06 Jackal58 wrote:
Decon- We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the posting of PM's. I think it's a bad idea. You don't. I'm over it. It's not an issue worth arguing. I didn't dodge it. You just didn't like my answer. Ya the one you skipped. And now you're in a pissing contest over the content of a posted PM. Have fun. We got scum here folks. Here was the post in question: On February 25 2011 00:46 deconduo wrote:On February 24 2011 22:41 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 22:35 deconduo wrote:Jackal, you haven't clarified this: + Show Spoiler +On February 24 2011 05:31 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote:On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote:On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote:
I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him.
But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin.... What is your logic behind telling people not to quote or post PMs? It honestly does not make any sense to me. It feels an irrational conclusion to jump to. I did explain it. Go ahead and post PM content. Go ahead and get comfy with it. Go ahead and watch scum use that to destroy town at end game. I think it's a horrid idea. I honestly 100% don't understand your logic. From what I can gather you are saying the following. In a lylo situation, 2 mafia 3 town say. Person A + B post PMs showing C is mafia. C denies it and says they are faked. Now according to you, i)If no PMs were posted previously, people A+B would be lynched. ii)If a couple of PMs had been posted previously, and people were 'comfy' with it, C would be lynched. How you managed to get here I have no clue whatsoever. There must be some huge step in logic that I'm missing as to what universe you think this would happen in. -Your 'explanation' was mafia would use it to destroy town at end game. I gave you an example of your supposed endgame situation. You completely ignored it and simple put it down to opinion. I'll give my take on this... Posting pm for no reason is a bad thing because it will reveal information to mafia. However, there are many circumstances where posting pm is good. For example, look how Foolishness post his pm with me and find that I didn't do what exactly I promised. That generated one point saying why i am mafia. If he is mafia and I town, and edited the pm, I can denied it and there goes 1 mafia of the two. If I am mafia and he town. If I denied the pm and same 1 mafia out of the two. If both are town, I shouldn't lie. If both are mafia, mafia is stupid. Icemac also gave out all pm before he died. It give additional information for town to work with and town can use those to accuse or defend people. Taking those pms into the grave is not as useful. Your case describes that mafia edit the pm and use them for the late game. This situation only works if the other person mafia is editing the pm from is afk and don't claim the pm is edited. This is huge risk from mafia and certainly mafia would take unless they are desperate. Your other case say that 2 or more mafia talk in circles and post pm to make themselves look good. This case stands because it would be hard to prove these pms wrong. Also even revealing one of them mafia doesn't prove that the other is mafia believe it could very well be legit pm between mafia and town. But if we just compare the pro and con of post pm. i find it is beneficial for them to be posted given there is a reason. So I have to agree with deucenuo on this subject and asking you to describe why it is bad to post pm. Also give your reasons why posting pm is bad. (Does the con outweigh the pro?) So much you could weigh in on, and you write an essay that boils down: "posting pm's when theres a reason that gives town more reliable information is good" Of all the things you could have posted on LIKE SUSPECTS AND WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA AND WHY, you said something as useless and obvious as that, and make it look like you are good Sir Sherlock Holmes solving cases left and right. You sir are trying to blend in. Who might want to blend in? DRRR I wonder. Maybe scum? This post's purpose is to ask jackal to describe what he meant. If I respond to you now, that would just make my post pointless. I promise you (not going to forget this time), that I will give you an explanation after jackal respond to my post or deuceuo's post relating to this subject. ok?
Respond to what? A pointless argument that I decided was a difference in opinion? Respond to a question I already answered? And then said fuck it when decon didn't like my answer? I felt at the time it wasn't worth having a pissing contest over. You just had an argument with gryff over alleged PM content. That's why I think it's a bad idea. But I said that already.
Only scum would attempt to continue making an issue out of a non-issue.
##VOTE: Lunar Destiny
|
I'm actually leaning towards Jackal's opinion of keeping PM content seperate, except like in IceMac's scenario where you're about to be killed and it would benefit the town, assume you are town. In his case, I might do that, but in my case now I actually believe that we are sort of on the backfoot as a town with all these modkills. It's really a pity, since we're 1/2 on lynches, and shouldn't be as punished as we are.
Tight spot... we gotta keep fighting.
|
On March 01 2011 19:31 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 13:04 LunarDestiny wrote:On March 01 2011 11:53 Ser Aspi wrote:Some more bad posts: On March 01 2011 04:42 LunarDestiny wrote:On March 01 2011 00:31 deconduo wrote:On March 01 2011 00:19 Jackal58 wrote:On February 28 2011 20:13 deconduo wrote:First of all we have Jackal. He claimed posting PMs is scummy. When asked to explain the logic behind it he dodged the question twice then posted this gem: On February 25 2011 01:06 Jackal58 wrote:
Decon- We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the posting of PM's. I think it's a bad idea. You don't. I'm over it. It's not an issue worth arguing. I didn't dodge it. You just didn't like my answer. Ya the one you skipped. And now you're in a pissing contest over the content of a posted PM. Have fun. We got scum here folks. Here was the post in question: On February 25 2011 00:46 deconduo wrote:On February 24 2011 22:41 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 22:35 deconduo wrote:Jackal, you haven't clarified this: + Show Spoiler +On February 24 2011 05:31 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote:On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote:On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote:
I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him.
But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin.... What is your logic behind telling people not to quote or post PMs? It honestly does not make any sense to me. It feels an irrational conclusion to jump to. I did explain it. Go ahead and post PM content. Go ahead and get comfy with it. Go ahead and watch scum use that to destroy town at end game. I think it's a horrid idea. I honestly 100% don't understand your logic. From what I can gather you are saying the following. In a lylo situation, 2 mafia 3 town say. Person A + B post PMs showing C is mafia. C denies it and says they are faked. Now according to you, i)If no PMs were posted previously, people A+B would be lynched. ii)If a couple of PMs had been posted previously, and people were 'comfy' with it, C would be lynched. How you managed to get here I have no clue whatsoever. There must be some huge step in logic that I'm missing as to what universe you think this would happen in. -Your 'explanation' was mafia would use it to destroy town at end game. I gave you an example of your supposed endgame situation. You completely ignored it and simple put it down to opinion. I'll give my take on this... Posting pm for no reason is a bad thing because it will reveal information to mafia. However, there are many circumstances where posting pm is good. For example, look how Foolishness post his pm with me and find that I didn't do what exactly I promised. That generated one point saying why i am mafia. If he is mafia and I town, and edited the pm, I can denied it and there goes 1 mafia of the two. If I am mafia and he town. If I denied the pm and same 1 mafia out of the two. If both are town, I shouldn't lie. If both are mafia, mafia is stupid. Icemac also gave out all pm before he died. It give additional information for town to work with and town can use those to accuse or defend people. Taking those pms into the grave is not as useful. Your case describes that mafia edit the pm and use them for the late game. This situation only works if the other person mafia is editing the pm from is afk and don't claim the pm is edited. This is huge risk from mafia and certainly mafia would take unless they are desperate. Your other case say that 2 or more mafia talk in circles and post pm to make themselves look good. This case stands because it would be hard to prove these pms wrong. Also even revealing one of them mafia doesn't prove that the other is mafia believe it could very well be legit pm between mafia and town. But if we just compare the pro and con of post pm. i find it is beneficial for them to be posted given there is a reason. So I have to agree with deucenuo on this subject and asking you to describe why it is bad to post pm. Also give your reasons why posting pm is bad. (Does the con outweigh the pro?) So much you could weigh in on, and you write an essay that boils down: "posting pm's when theres a reason that gives town more reliable information is good" Of all the things you could have posted on LIKE SUSPECTS AND WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA AND WHY, you said something as useless and obvious as that, and make it look like you are good Sir Sherlock Holmes solving cases left and right. You sir are trying to blend in. Who might want to blend in? DRRR I wonder. Maybe scum? This post's purpose is to ask jackal to describe what he meant. If I respond to you now, that would just make my post pointless. I promise you (not going to forget this time), that I will give you an explanation after jackal respond to my post or deuceuo's post relating to this subject. ok? Respond to what? A pointless argument that I decided was a difference in opinion? Respond to a question I already answered? And then said fuck it when decon didn't like my answer? I felt at the time it wasn't worth having a pissing contest over. You just had an argument with gryff over alleged PM content. That's why I think it's a bad idea. But I said that already. Only scum would attempt to continue making an issue out of a non-issue.
##VOTE: Lunar Destiny
First of all, the pm thing I had is with Foolishness and I did not say his posting of the pm to call me out a bad thing. I am fine with it and glad to explain it.
Now I ask you to give reason why you think posting pm is bad.
To restate my question, give your reasons why posting pm is bad. Does the con outweigh the pro? (find my counter arguments from my post in the pm chain). This is just a simple question.
|
Again, I also pointed out that posting pm without a reason is bad. But jackal's mentality toward pms is don't post them at all.
|
It's relative to the situation.
If player A releases a PM from player B, it is key on their alignments.
If both are town, player B will be more apt to vote player A, which is bad
If both are scum, it looks as if they aren't both scum together, creating distancing
If the one releasing is scum, and the one who is in LD's shoes is town, it looks bad on town
If the one releasing is town, and the one who is in LD's shoes is scum, it's not bad for the town
|
so, from my perspective, 75% of the time it is bad... but that isn't correct
it really just depends on how you use it, and the commitments it takes to do it properly. Usually the commitments outweigh the benefits, so it shouldn't be done.
|
On March 01 2011 19:47 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 19:31 Jackal58 wrote:On March 01 2011 13:04 LunarDestiny wrote:On March 01 2011 11:53 Ser Aspi wrote:Some more bad posts: On March 01 2011 04:42 LunarDestiny wrote:On March 01 2011 00:31 deconduo wrote:On March 01 2011 00:19 Jackal58 wrote:On February 28 2011 20:13 deconduo wrote:First of all we have Jackal. He claimed posting PMs is scummy. When asked to explain the logic behind it he dodged the question twice then posted this gem: On February 25 2011 01:06 Jackal58 wrote:
Decon- We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the posting of PM's. I think it's a bad idea. You don't. I'm over it. It's not an issue worth arguing. I didn't dodge it. You just didn't like my answer. Ya the one you skipped. And now you're in a pissing contest over the content of a posted PM. Have fun. We got scum here folks. Here was the post in question: On February 25 2011 00:46 deconduo wrote:On February 24 2011 22:41 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 22:35 deconduo wrote:Jackal, you haven't clarified this: + Show Spoiler +On February 24 2011 05:31 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote:On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote:On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote:On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote:
I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him.
But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin.... What is your logic behind telling people not to quote or post PMs? It honestly does not make any sense to me. It feels an irrational conclusion to jump to. I did explain it. Go ahead and post PM content. Go ahead and get comfy with it. Go ahead and watch scum use that to destroy town at end game. I think it's a horrid idea. I honestly 100% don't understand your logic. From what I can gather you are saying the following. In a lylo situation, 2 mafia 3 town say. Person A + B post PMs showing C is mafia. C denies it and says they are faked. Now according to you, i)If no PMs were posted previously, people A+B would be lynched. ii)If a couple of PMs had been posted previously, and people were 'comfy' with it, C would be lynched. How you managed to get here I have no clue whatsoever. There must be some huge step in logic that I'm missing as to what universe you think this would happen in. -Your 'explanation' was mafia would use it to destroy town at end game. I gave you an example of your supposed endgame situation. You completely ignored it and simple put it down to opinion. I'll give my take on this... Posting pm for no reason is a bad thing because it will reveal information to mafia. However, there are many circumstances where posting pm is good. For example, look how Foolishness post his pm with me and find that I didn't do what exactly I promised. That generated one point saying why i am mafia. If he is mafia and I town, and edited the pm, I can denied it and there goes 1 mafia of the two. If I am mafia and he town. If I denied the pm and same 1 mafia out of the two. If both are town, I shouldn't lie. If both are mafia, mafia is stupid. Icemac also gave out all pm before he died. It give additional information for town to work with and town can use those to accuse or defend people. Taking those pms into the grave is not as useful. Your case describes that mafia edit the pm and use them for the late game. This situation only works if the other person mafia is editing the pm from is afk and don't claim the pm is edited. This is huge risk from mafia and certainly mafia would take unless they are desperate. Your other case say that 2 or more mafia talk in circles and post pm to make themselves look good. This case stands because it would be hard to prove these pms wrong. Also even revealing one of them mafia doesn't prove that the other is mafia believe it could very well be legit pm between mafia and town. But if we just compare the pro and con of post pm. i find it is beneficial for them to be posted given there is a reason. So I have to agree with deucenuo on this subject and asking you to describe why it is bad to post pm. Also give your reasons why posting pm is bad. (Does the con outweigh the pro?) So much you could weigh in on, and you write an essay that boils down: "posting pm's when theres a reason that gives town more reliable information is good" Of all the things you could have posted on LIKE SUSPECTS AND WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA AND WHY, you said something as useless and obvious as that, and make it look like you are good Sir Sherlock Holmes solving cases left and right. You sir are trying to blend in. Who might want to blend in? DRRR I wonder. Maybe scum? This post's purpose is to ask jackal to describe what he meant. If I respond to you now, that would just make my post pointless. I promise you (not going to forget this time), that I will give you an explanation after jackal respond to my post or deuceuo's post relating to this subject. ok? Respond to what? A pointless argument that I decided was a difference in opinion? Respond to a question I already answered? And then said fuck it when decon didn't like my answer? I felt at the time it wasn't worth having a pissing contest over. You just had an argument with gryff over alleged PM content. That's why I think it's a bad idea. But I said that already. Only scum would attempt to continue making an issue out of a non-issue.
##VOTE: Lunar Destiny First of all, the pm thing I had is with Foolishness and I did not say his posting of the pm to call me out a bad thing. I am fine with it and glad to explain it. Now I ask you to give reason why you think posting pm is bad. To restate my question, give your reasons why posting pm is bad. Does the con outweigh the pro? (find my counter arguments from my post in the pm chain). This is just a simple question.
Which I answered. Perhaps my answer was too simple. Posting PMs in my opinion is an easy way for scum to influence town. Particular at end game. That is "IN MY OPINION". If you disagree with my opinion fine. It's not worthy of an argument. Unless you are scum and wish to appear that you are contributing. Because that's all it is. Appearance. And
![[image loading]](http://www.powderblueorbit.com/2wm3x36.gif)
|
Alright alright enough with the pictures, mine are much funnier.
And cube, foolishness has medics too so vig won't work either 
|
Vancouver14381 Posts
On March 01 2011 19:14 Barundar wrote:@JBright if you are town, then you keep fighting. Popping up making 1 post defending yourself and then giving up isn't good enough. Why don't you start contributing instead? Show nested quote +If I were a Vig, I would save my hit for someone more important, who I couldn't get lynched by making a case towards the town. I lol'd
Well, that was something I wrote right before I went to sleep, so I wasn't going to answer any more until later.
Going back to SA's axis of evil, I already gave my (non)opinion on LD, but what about Seraph? Since I haven't been too active myself, I can hardly point my fingers at another low activity player. He seems to come on in spurts during each day/night cycle and didn't have very much to say except for his latest post. I didn't think too much of it, but I suppose the part about the icemac analysis seems strange. There was only ~20 min before the end of voting, so who was he really trying to convince?
Won't be reading this until at least 9pm Eastern, so I'll place my vote now. Since I've already thrown around some FoS, might as well vote for one of them. I believe that townies tend to play more aggressive in terms of scum hunting, so I'll keep my vote off GM and SA for now. If LD does post before voting ends, I could be persuaded to vote for him. I'll just go with gryffindor since he's the third of my gut picks.
##Vote: Gryffindor
|
On March 01 2011 23:52 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2011 19:14 Barundar wrote:@JBright if you are town, then you keep fighting. Popping up making 1 post defending yourself and then giving up isn't good enough. Why don't you start contributing instead? If I were a Vig, I would save my hit for someone more important, who I couldn't get lynched by making a case towards the town. I lol'd Well, that was something I wrote right before I went to sleep, so I wasn't going to answer any more until later. Going back to SA's axis of evil, I already gave my (non)opinion on LD, but what about Seraph? Since I haven't been too active myself, I can hardly point my fingers at another low activity player. He seems to come on in spurts during each day/night cycle and didn't have very much to say except for his latest post. I didn't think too much of it, but I suppose the part about the icemac analysis seems strange. There was only ~20 min before the end of voting, so who was he really trying to convince? Won't be reading this until at least 9pm Eastern, so I'll place my vote now. Since I've already thrown around some FoS, might as well vote for one of them. I believe that townies tend to play more aggressive in terms of scum hunting, so I'll keep my vote off GM and SA for now. If LD does post before voting ends, I could be persuaded to vote for him. I'll just go with gryffindor since he's the third of my gut picks. ##Vote: Gryffindor
Of course we do. You don't have to hunt for your scum buddies. You get a list from the host.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://hubba-u.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/professor_badass.jpg)
