TL Mafia XXXVII

On February 23 2011 15:23 gryffindor wrote:
with 30, i doubt there are 8
5-6 is much more likely, with 6 being more likely, unless they start with roles (which I doubt)
due to the mechanics

5 with an SK I would believe would be balanced as well, but i'm seeing 6 and 2.5-3kp, or something like "you may not kill 3 people" as 3 kp is a bit much right now

we will learn soon enough. It is also possible they get to pick to be permanent, or nightly. I'm not quite sure on the mechanic. Lets assume it is permanent, and they pick a GF and a role reverser
they'd still have 1.5kp which would round up to 2 afaik

The best thing to do is to not come out if you're a hatter, for sure
If you're a cop, I wouldn't come out unless you have a guilty, or are pressured
I wouldn't ever claim as medic, unless someone you protected and saved is up for lynch
Veteran is OK to claim, many setups have bulletproofs claiming first
Vigilante is OK to claim TOMORROW if you claim who you are going to kill - Don't claim today, as you can't kill tonight

uh has this game started? i dont see a day 1 post or even a role PM

ok, we can discount this post

okay hi peeps

vote chaoser. that post reeks of redness.

p.s. still no role PM!

Ok, two things throwing around FoS without justification is a big no-no, if you think something is scummy give a reason, I won't comment about role PM timings as I do believe it is against the rules, still no way to call this a contribution at all

also where is the voting thread?
ok

nobody in this game should trust gryffindor whatsoever. i read orgah and i have NO IDEA how he didnt die like 5 days before he did

also, he's a smurf and if you read this forum you should already know who he is ;\

I agree I have no idea why he didn't die earlier in Orgah, however that is neither here nor there, although I will agree about not trusting him, too bad annul is going to essentially agree with everything Gryf says

it reeks of red because he is like "hey so theres weak powers in this game lol" which can only be known if he is a red, since if he was green he cant make that blanket claim and if he was a blue, he'd even be less inclined to make that claim

the only way he can do that is if he is red and he sees the red team has weak or no powers

finally a justification of his FoS on chooser, lets analyze it shall we? so essentially because chaoser thinks that mafia powers aren't that powerful (and cost for cost they may not be) this means he must be scum, faulty logic at best. Also the powers are in the OP, so no need for him to be red to make comments on them, all in all its a really weak reason to FoS someone

yeah that would be... foolish

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

spam, lovely, although it did get a small grin from me

what?

that post makes no sense. like, i dont mean the logic, i mean the grammar (though the logic probably sucks too)

I don't know what he is referring to, and I dislike the snarky comment, also not a contribution

Meme in response to my cells idea

well it was a funny picture, but hardly a contribution

same reason you knew the mafia was weak?

repeating bad logic does not make it into reality

pretty sure its better for people to post things in the thread -- much easier to catch red slips that way.

if people only post in these mini town circles, then people are probably more inclined psychologically to trust their town circle and not consider them red, etc.

actually a decent argument! +1 to his contribution count! Still I've said and emphasized that PMs are a tool to be used for scumhunting and that the purpose of the circles is to promote activity, and not to trust anyone still I like to see that annul is at least thinking

(/snip)
(Me asking what the purpose of claiming vet is)

wifom

one word response that fails to really address the question, still though gryffindor can at least rest easy that he will not be killed, not because he is a vet but because he is disrupting town

I'M A VET TOO

I BROKE THE DAM

...ok...moving on

but for real lets kill chaoser and GM

the level of depth to this argument is breathtaking, I do wish it came with an index so I could properly format my response to each of his well made points

(/snip RoLs first clarification about DTs)
mafia and townie are not roles, they are alignments...

I thought RoL made sense, still I guess having things clarified is never a bad thing, lets call it .5 of a contribution

also hi. am out of class now

why arent we killing chaoser or GM?

im gonna go ##vote chaoser now myself.

hi! when voting please provide reasons, otherwise I might think you are just trying to get people lynched for no reason, we wouldn't want that, now would we?

(/snip chaoser asking for a vote justification)
i already did, you should probably read the entire thread

I addressed your "reasoning" already, now do me a favor and try harder, also if someone asks its not that hard to go back and quote your post

actually in fact, the only way you can claim "ive been really scummy so far" is if you saw my play last night, and if you did, then you know i already explained that vote. interesting.

what? color me confused. what vote? guess what? spamming useless one liners and not contributing is scummy!

(/snip me sarcastically saying that its a good idea to lynch chaoser and I)
its brilliant when you post the dumbest shit possible yeah

harmful activity isnt exempt on day 1

so, please go over in detail what "the dumbest shit possible" is. Maybe if I had suggested a mass claim or perhaps the formation of a circle of confirmed blues rather than independent scum hunting teams that would have made you happy? please tell me what harmful posts I've made, I really want to know so I can rectify my play in the future. I'll say it one more time; do not make unsupported statements and expect me to take them at all seriously

To: deconduo [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Mafia XXXVII
Date: 2/24/11 00:13
Hi!
So,I'm curious as to what your reads are this game, care to share?

he following need to step up their game:

Gofarman - 8 posts
astroorion - 3 posts
JBright - 4 posts
ICanFlyLow - 2 posts
ohN - 3 posts
why - 6 posts
CubEdIn - 6 posts
LastArgument - 7 posts

Fewer that 10 posts this far in is inexcusable.

I'm going to have to start linking my games here as meta...
I haven't ever bussed someone on teamliquid; it isn't how mafia is played here. If you expect people to be bussing, you are playing very poorly as town. WI'm going to have to start linking my games here as meta...
I haven't ever bussed someone on teamliquid; it isn't how mafia is played here. If you expect people to be bussing, you are playing very poorly as town. Would I really go out of my way to push the lynch of my mafia buddy? Would said mafia buddy THEN counterpush me? Who have I had interactions with that would look like my scumbuddies?

ok so here you say bussing is not how mafia is played here, which is blatantly wrong, in minimafia V, node jackal and I were on the same scum team and we bussed jackal day 1, with Node leading the analysis against him. There are other examples like the game (I don't rember the #) where LSB ran for mayor with a scummy plan and Dr.H decided to bus him, LSB survived that day by persuading RoL that he was town in PM's, but still bussing is a technique that is used on TL so that use of meta is downright wrong. Also everything besides that last question is WIFOM , as if you thought it was likely annul was going to be lynched with LSB pushing him it would be a great idea for you to get on the wagon early. As to who would you have had interactions with? annul actualy seemed to agree with most of what you said, and from a town perspective our argument about the plan may have been a good way to confirm us as town if we are both mafia. Icemac also seemed to be on your side aggressively pushing against my plan without any sold reason

IF I am lynched, this is a very laughable town

oh ok, you clearly prove your townness with that

Annul had associative tells with both GMarshal and Icemac, both of whom we should pursue lynches on, but you all are so hurt that someone is a better player than you, you can't get over the fact that OMGUS/bussing is just senselessly being thrown at me when both aren't relevant to this particular scenario. The OMGUS relatedness isn't relevant because some OMGUS is very-town, especially when the goal of it is to point out that I'm part of the reason why Annul got lynched.

ok, if you were really town your OMGUS would have looked something like "wtf voting against me with no reason jackal?" also what associative tells did i have with annul? that he pushed to lynch chaoser after FoSing me? and what I have no idea what associative tell you want to use to associate Icemac and me, still I appreciate the effort to at least do some scumhunting. and how are the terms OMGUS and bussing not relevant, they clearly are.

Apart from GMarshal or IceMac, Seraph would also be a good lynch from my perspective, due to the recent post he made sounding like goading/fake-sincerity regarding the medic/cop snipe, and considering his excuse for lurking in the same post... well, it just reads forced and overly defensive.

ok, I like that you are at least thinking, Seraph however I have a town read on, due to the fact that he has been at least moderately active in PM land, still I wouldn't mind getting more from him

GMarshal looks like Annul's buddy to me, because Annul gave him a casual FoS in a post that he failed to try make look real, followed by voting someone else. It was way past where the RVS should end, and it was a lackluster post saying "Well, i'd lynch gmarshal or ___". He listed GMarshal first, talked about him like he was suspicious, then failed to vote him, voting someone else.

ok, a decent point, wrong unfortunately, but a decent point, this at least seems like active scumhunting so kudos for that, but I think you are reading far too much into annul's aggressiveness, as IIRC he later voted for me (I dont really remember though)

Now, I see I have a few votes on me now, so unvote

I'm not convinced, you uncomfortable in the heat gryffindor?

If you're unfamiliar with me, go read Orgah mafia.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186653
I am a Serial Killer in this game, and obviously scum. I say obviously, because my play there as scum is contrasted with how I am playing in this game. In that game, I was generally unhelpful, lurking, and inactive. This game, I am very active, and dedicated to the town teching up

alow me to point out that changing your style is not that hard, compare my current active planning to my rather more crappy posting style in XXXVI. usually quoting other games and saying "see im nothing like this" is a scum tell, as changing ones style is not that great of a challenge

thanks guys, love you all

Seems like shit's hitting the wall pretty hard without any real leads so far. Since its too early, why not just get a semi-active who is probably smart enough to keep their heads in the game but not smart enough to post big as a mafia. I guess this is ironic coming from me seeing as how I've just got up to date & posting.

this is an interesting point considering the fact that the people in suspicion at the time were me, gryff, annul and chaoser, if icemac flips red then we should scrutinize chaoser and gryffindor (and me actually) I'm not really sure of what to make of this post one way or another, seems just like a general town post

Also, I just want to say that these cell things is either big balls move by mafia or the workings of bad play.

here is a post I take issue with, not because it goes against my plan, but because it provides no reasons for it, it just labels it as bad play. I have no problem with discussion, its when there is no reasoning behind it that I start to suspect people. Also its rather aggressive play for a player who just got here (not that that's a bad thing), but it is mimicking annul's "arguments"

Analysis doesn't mean shit Day 1. I don't see why you feel so compelled to pull stuff out of your ass and call it high level analysis.

and here is a damning post, anyone who argues against analysis gets an automatic scum point in my book, and the rebuff saying it was pulled out of my ass in no way actually addresses any issues he may have with the analysis itself, +2 scum points

(~snip, gryffs mention of a possible link between me and annul)
I doubt mafia is this stupid.

Thats an interesting post actually, notice how this isn't constructive at all? I'm seeing a pattern here of not actually contributing and just dismissing things in general, now I know I'm town but if I were scum it could easily be a slip on annuls part, never dismiss a possible scum slip +1 scum point

I'm proposing we kill 0 of annul, GMarshal, gryffindor, chaoser and play it by ear afterwards.

you were asked to clarify if you meant 1, if you did then this is a null contribution, as that was where the town was tending anyway and you failed to provide any reason why any of us was a compelling choice at all, +1 contentless posting!

(~snip me calling him out on the above posts)

Alright, let's just say you are being productive, what conclusions are you actually arriving at?

its a good question but he fails to substantiate his arguments, I think I call him out on dodging my questions later

(~snip, list of inactives by kita)

Where are these people?

thats not a contribution, at least put a vote on them to pressure them ,+1 meaningless posting

(~snip why's arguments against icemac)

So by responding to posts, I'm up for lynch? I've said a lot: the current way we're analyzing data isn't optimal. I don't think we should be you using scant data on Day 1 such as you, yourself, are doing. The reason I'm not listing any names other than the inactives is because I have no reasoning against anyone. I don't think I'm forcing myself at all; instead, I'm making meaningful posts on how town should act on Day 1 which is lynching inactives and semi-actives trying to stay in the covers.

Ok, so lets see that actual substance of your defense, basicly it is "I dont like analysis day 1" and "I dunno who to vote for" and you make a pretty basic mistake, you say town should go for lurkers day 1, which is a mistake, town should pressure lurkers day 1 and only lynch them if there is no better alternative, becuase it is easy for mafia to move votes onto a town inactive, rather than a scum lurker, still an easy mistake to make

(~snip do not claim message)

seriously

not a real contribution, but people have been doing this all game long (reinforcing the don't claim message)

What I mean is that we shouldn't lynch any actives because they're at least contributing. We'll be able to see their alignment or slipups in the future via posts/ pms/ hit patterns/ lynch patterns/ etc. If it's really that important, then I say ICanFlyLow for not talking at all. First person in the list I found that wasn't talking at all.
##Vote: ICanFlyLow

so after deciding that my plan is scummy and 1 of gryffindor annul GMarshal or chaoser should be lynched you switch to an inactive? I already explained why voting for inactives to make them post is good, but after agroing on me so hard this seems like an abrupt change

(~snip ON making a FoS on him)


How the heck am I red? Just because I'm smart enough to take a bipartisan approach to day 1 and not listen to over analysis and red-analysis doesn't mean I'm scum playing the middle of the road. Right now I'm pretty convinced you're either a baddie or straight up mafia.

this is an OMGUS attack without the actual vote, since ON accused him he must be scum, this is bad play from icemac

Also, I'm not jumping into this Jackal58 bandwagon because I'm not bad. Lynch me if you will.

this actualy merits a townie point, refusing to jump on an easy bandwagon to take votes and suspicion off himself

(~snip, Ser Aspi posts an accusation at wiggles)
I like. Also, I hate how me and annul are cast with 100% of the blame for just being active holy shit. I think Ser Aspi is got something here.

Trying to jump on an easy bandwagon or just easily persuaded? hard to tell, also you weren't taking the blame for being active, but rather for being aggressive without arguments.

What do you mean by a huge dive. I changed my vote from an afk-player who just stopped going afk to some major bandwagon scum. Playing it by ear.

so you admit that you are essentially sheeping, that is terrible town play (see minimafia VII for an example of why), if you had at least said it was for reason 1,2 and 3 then it would have been but that just points to either bad play or something more sinister +.5 scum points

Fair analysis. I just want to ask about the lynches. Haven't played with TL before
How significant are Darmousseh, Kitaman27, Mr. Wiggles as players? Are the known for being good players, etc. ? Also, is there any of their caliber that "should be dead" but isn't?
I'm okay with
##Vote Barundar
for now.

stop sheeping , or if you are going to at least point out which points swayed you the most , ok LSB posted a good analysis but think critically about it, I will admit you weren't the only one swayed by it, so I'll give you a pass on that one. Also good questions, I'm glad you are thinking/asking them

Oh boy, if ohn is mafia and i'm town, i'm going to quote the hell out of this afterwards.

it could be a slip, but we all make mistakes, Im willing to give him a pass

while I'm wishing for the impossible I also want a complete list of the scum team and 5 free daykills please

Original Message From seRapH:
Well I hit a pretty number so I'll stop posting in the thread and move to PMs ^_^

Anyways, what's your take on chaoser and gryffindor?

Original Message From GMarshal:
chaoser is an active poster, so even if he is mafia I would let him be for now, as he is likely to slip up later, right now I want to see who is going to be inactive and pressure the hell out of them. gryffindor sets off my scum radar because of his vet claim, especially after I said not to claim, however I just don;t think he would be stupid enough to post that if he were mafia.

annul is annoying me due to what I see as his intentional stupidity, which could be a scum tell, coag is being his usual unreadable self, so I may consider proposing him as a lynch target

your thoughts?

Original Message From seRapH:
Chaoser strikes me as a panicking scum, but I could be wrong. Selfish townies like staying alive too. At the very least he's made my list to watch. Gryffindor is either really bad or is playing a game with some sort of intricate plan. I'm looking at the setup though, and I don't see how a mass claim could benefit town within reasonable probability.

Honestly, I'm really afraid of annul, since the two games I've played with him he's been godfather XD. And both times he's won. So who knows. If he starts an unreasonable bandwagon though I'm going to push for his lynch.

Coag I've learned to ignore. If we really get nothing better at the end of the day though may as well kill him because he really won't be giving us anything In any case, we have a lot of time. We should be able to dig up something better than coag.

Original Message From GMarshal:
The thing with Chaoser is that he gets targeted day1 almost every game so he takes poorly to it, I'm in a PM circle with him however and he seems like he is pro town at the moment, however I will keep my eye on him. Gryffindor i dont understand, he is top of my scum list ATM, there is no way claiming vet is a good idea, and I honestly don't believe him, mass claims generally don't help town except in really specific setups, so it wouldn't help here

Annul I haven't played much with so I'll believe your read of his playstyle when you get one, I actually really respect coag's scum hunting abilities, despite his occasional slip up (Guts and Glory, ugh >.<), so if only for that I'd like to keep him around

barring any solid scum reads today I'm going to go for an inactive/lurker lynch
however we still have 46 hours or so, so we'll have more to analyze tommorow.

Original Message From seRapH:

Oh ok. Not too familiar with chaoser, first game with him (I think?). You're in a whole circle with him? Huh. Well I'm sure you know what you're doing.

Gryffindor... His votes thus far have been on who? Foolishness and you? He's piling on the scumminess. The only thing he's got going for him is that no one's even trying to defend him. But maybe his scumbuddies just haven't had time to voice themselves.

Original Message From GMarshal:
So, since you seem to be shy of posting in the thread or something I thought I'd PM you

So, what are your thoughts on the current situation?

Lol sorry I'm not exactly on top of my game right now
There is definitely experience in the mafia. If annul gave up because his team sucked it was not because everyone on his team sucked. Look towards veterans and good players, at least one of them is scum, I wouldn't be surprised if it were someone who's usually much more active too.

Who are you thinking about lynching, or are you content with staying back and watching people's reactions for now?

I might have to end up trusting your judgement by the end of the day, depending on how sober I am in 48 hours >_>

At this point I want to see how people react to pressure, I'm starting to light a fire under the inactives, (i've PMed most of them), and the OMGUS by gryff was really suspicious. Also cube is lurking which is really rare in him, so I would look to him as a potential scum. I can understand being busy on a weekend, (I have exams next week, its going to be glorious -_- ) so no worries, we still have 48 hours to see how things play out

Original Message From GMarshal:
Well Hi there!

This is just a friendly PM from a fellow player in Mafia XXXVII, I noticed you aren't posting much so I decided I'd ask what you think of the current situation in the game. Are you getting any scum tells from anyone? Do you have any thought on any of the arguments that have been going on?

Original Message From kevconsim:
Hello the reason I havent been posting is because i sleep and i go to school so i will be reading the rest of the forum right now and answer your questions after that. Sorry i go to high school 30 mins away from my high school and i have to get up at 5:00 in the morning for practice.

Original Message From GMarshal:
Its fine ^^
its just that inactivity often ends with the town losing horribly, so I'm making every effort to make people post and think

Original Message From kevconsim:
Most likely gryffindor is Mafia, vet or (Mad Hatter) because he seems to be trying to Control the conversation and he is not answering a lot of questions he is just trying to deter them. I doubt he will get killed tonight and i think that if he is MH and can get the bombs placed i think it would be good to keep him around


I dont know about Coagulation he seems to be hiding in the back more than the other games that i have read.
This is also my first time playing Mafia so i am kinda getting used to how to play.

Jackal saying that he will post peoples pm makes me not want to trust him.

If i had to vote right now i would prolly vote for annul because he is pointing out several people but he is
1)not giving reasons for why people are scum

I am pretty sure you are town. I am pretty sure you are blue too but i do not know which one.
Thats all so far!

Original Message From GMarshal:
Good thoughts, I suggest you post at least some of them in the thread, especially the comment about coag, I think it is insightful. gryffindor's play is hard to read, my only comment on it is that I dont think mafia would play that stupid, although feel free to press him on any of these issues.

Good thoughts, I approve, keep it up!

if you want to bounce any more ideas of me I'm around

Original Message From kevconsim:
Could a tell be voting for yourself to make people think that you dont care if you get voted and by saying incase you forget.

I guess i feel like i would never vote for myself ever

Ex JBright

Original Message From GMarshal:

Its usually just a placeholder vote, mafia usually never vote for themselves, I wouldn't read much into that vote at all, as its standard practice

Original Message From kevconsim:
ok i guess if you were to do that you would want to do it later in the game.
jw who are you going to vote for?so far

I am thinking Annul

Original message from GMarshal;
Sure annul seems like a good vote, right now I'm still mulling over the options, I'm not sure that annul is scum, but it will be interesting to see how he reacts to pressure, that will probably be a tell one way or another

Original Message from kevconsim;
See we got him. That was my best guess and i was right.

Next i think Icemac should go.

I am a regular townie so i dont really do anything at night right?

Original Message from GMarshal
Besides talk and discuss no, you have no special powers at night (or during the day ), this is when people like the Detectives and the Mafia send in what their actions are going to be

Original message from kevconsim:
Thats what i thought thanks
who do you think should go next

Original Message from GMarshal
To be honest I really don't know, give the night some time to go by, wait till morning to see who dies, take a good look at who voted for who today, most important, THINK, you'll never get anywhere just following peoples advice, so go ahead take a look and form an opinion. A good player to look at would be Lunar Destiny, another good one to look at might be SerApH.
When you have an opinion PM me and we can discuss it, and also post it in the thread.

GMarshal
Hi! Would you like to be the first member of my analysis circle? if so I'll be PMing you with my thoughts and bouncing analysis off you! I hope you can do the same with me. If you *are* scum, I don't care, as this will just give me more to analyze, if you aren't then this will be good for the both of us.

So yeah, RoL already warned us these would be necessary so I think we might as well start one, I think you should pick a 3rd member just so we can have the most unbiased analysis possible, if you don't want to pick a 3rd member then we can just go with a two person circle or I can choose.

chaoser
You choose lol, and yes, lets, same to you.

GMarshal
So, I'm going to go with darmousseh, on a whim. that good with you?

chaoser
sure, i'd rather have a newbie in our group though since we're both decent players and I think by inviting a newbie in we prevent them from 1) lurking if they're mafia and 2) makes them feel more "part of the game" and so they'll actually want to play and help town instead of doing stupid shit/not saying anything so that by day 5 when we post analysis they'll come off as horrible red when they're just bored town, I know when I first started I chilled a lot and came off as that

GMarshal
I already sent him the invite, we can add a newb if you want though, go ahead and pick one randomly and we can incorporate him

chaoser
I picked icemat. I don't quite understand the cells. Sorry, running on pure coffee right now

Original Message From GMarshal:
The cells are just a group of people you bounce ideas off, this encourages more active posting as you feel obliged by more active players asking you questions and bouncing ideas off you. This also leads to people posting more and more stuff to analyze

Did you send him a PM btw?

chaoser
yeah, i told him I was in a group with you

GMarhsal
ok, thanks

chaoser
What do you think about annul's mafia count thing? also people need to get off my back, wish this was guts and glory again...

Original Message From GMarshal:
annul is playing stupid and I would lynch him just on that

it is true you seem to always be picked on day 1... sorry?

Its a fair assumption to assume 6 mafia in a 30 player game, but it could also be a scum slip, right now I'm unsure, if we did lynch him and he flipped red then I would believe we have a 6 mafia team to deal with

chaoser
Mr. Wiggle's post is exactly what I was thinking, we don't know the GF set up so it could be that there's 4 players only, or 5 for KP. Usually 6 mafia is standard when the KP is calculated as 3 for 6, 2 for 4, 1 for 2. But this is like some crazy addition thing with GF being 1 KP so the math would be off? 6 is like 1+2.5 so 3.5. I guess it's not that off since that means 3 KP + 1 power. Maybe I'm just too tired ugh. I think I'mm go back to studying and then turn in for the night

chaoser
While I do like the idea of cells, I think you should back off of it, it's detracting from everything else town needs to do, feel like it's just two town (you and BM) butting heads over an issue you won't agree on. It gives a chance for mafia to seem like they contributing too by just dropping in and commenting. Let's just work on our own circle, it seems some have thought it was a good idea too. At the very least, activity is at an all time high this game lol. I'll post this idea in thread too.

GMarshal
Ok, I'm done talking about cells then. Lets get scum hunting/poking inactives

Original Message From GMarshal:
gryffindor is really aggravating! Anyway I doubt the town is stupid enough to lynch me off his accusations, so I guess its best we consider real targets. Any thoughts on annul?

chaoser
holy crap i'm busy for a day and the game turns into a shit fest...wtf annul...I'm willing to vote him just cause spam is BAD for the game, especially if it's just two people yelling at each other. At least you and grfy were talking about plans, he's just spamming with LSB...going to make it hard to play endgame when there's like 60 pages to go through...i'll catch up tmr morning, just wrote a 6 page paper in 2 hours. I aced my test btw lol.

Original Message From GMarshal:
I made a quick topic for our little circle, I still mistrust icemac, so keep an eye on his posts

http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/hTug9L8PrCD

chaoser
Actually I was just about to pm you about that dude.

Annul:
At present, annul is bad for town whether he's mafia or not...I mean there's not helping town and there's being detrimental to town. Making the thread into a heated mud slinging battle=not very good atmosphere to be catching red in. Promoting discussion is fine, promoting flaming is not. It just lets mafia blend in and take sides and have an easy way of "contributing to discussion". I know he can do better too, it's just a question of why isn't he i guess. I hate policy lynches but if it keeps going this way...

I'm willing to have him as a fall back lynch if no one else comes up.

Icemat:
That being said, icemat is looking pretty scummy to me. He's not saying anything at all, he's saying there's nothing to analysis day 1 so he won't do it, doesn't take a real stance on anything. And then he votes an inactive when clearly we have A LOT to go on? come on now...what's your opinion on him?

Original Message From GMarshal:
Annul I don't have a very good read on, he is either an aggressive/stupid townie or just scum. I agree though, he would make a fine fall back lynch, although I think LSB is pushing for him a little too hard.

Ice is playing faaaar to aggressive for a new player, its interesting how his PM to me is rather apologetic, which makes me think he is possibly flip flopping scum. Also notice how he didn't post all that much,yet he took annul/gryffindors side so he could have expected to go by kind of unnoticed yet noted as a contributor, also this would keep annul/gryffindor from jumping on him. Right now I have a minor scum read on him, hopefully we can bait out more information. Also anyone who says analysis isn't worth anything day 1 just looks scummy in my eyes

thoughts on Jackal?

chaoser
LSB just doesn't like him lawl lol. They got history. Can i see the PM from ice?

Gmarshal
Sure

"Hey chaoser told me that you me Darm and him are in the same circle or whatever. Just Pm'ing it up to get acquainted. My bad for shitting on your idea earlier. Still not a big fan of it but if it helps us win then so be it. talk to you later."

Original Message From GMarshal:
Damnit, and I was sure he was town too... alright, thoughts? From the votes I would take a look at LD amongst others.

chaoser
dude...i don't trust icemac...he's in the group but hasn't said anything. He doesn't do analysis, gives shit reasons for not doing it, I think he's red, two bandwagons formed on him and annul, mafia couldn't do anything and bussed annul while trying to semi trying to see if they could get it off him and onto other targets. what do you think?

Original Message From GMarshal:
Its possible, but what *really* concerns me is the ridiculous blue sniping that took place, this makes me almost certain that a really good player is on the scum team, also notice how they used up all their KP (I'm assuming 3). The other possibility is those blues were stupid and claimed to someone (if wiggles claimed then it was probably to LSB, IMO), just my general thoughts.

icemac we can go after if no better lynches present themselves

chaoser
if it's a 6 man setup and annul died, it's 5 men, meaning 3 KP. I don't know if RoL is using 1 KP per kill or rounding up system, I just PMed him. If it's rounding up then 2.5 KP can still kill 3 people and they can still frame/cover so if that's the case then i still wouldn't trust DTs, it could even be mafia claiming, and then when the person gets lynched, they can say he got framed...

GMarshal
I agree, I'm not saying to trust DTs, I'm pointing out that whoever mafia is feels confident enough to not care to use frames/covers that much day 1

Chaoser
hey, what are you thoughts on __________? I think we can trust him. Talking to him on skype, if you got skype, get on and we can start a chat, I think we can get somewhere with this

(moved onto skype from there on)

Original Message From chaoser:
what's with the flip flopping on the votes dude, I come back to everyone on LD...wtf. what happened to icemac vote?

Original Message From GMarshal:
I'm a really indecisive voter! I really don't think icemac is scum, if he is from now on I'll vote for whatever you do

anyway it was too late to deter the vote from ice anyway at this point we force LD to post more and can analyze the vote lists

Original Message From chaoser:
if he is i might start thinking you mafia...don't sheep after foolishness...he comes in and basically everyone goes, ok, ignore our day of talking, we'll follow you. i'mma channel anthoy weiner, representative from new york. VOTE IF YOU THINK HE'S MAFIA! DON'T VOTE IF YOU THINK HE'S NOT! DON'T SAY YOU'RE VOTING CAUSE SOMEONE ELSE SAID TO VOTE LIKE SO!

Original Message From GMarshal:
I made it pretty clear earlier that i did not think icemac was mafia, and him voting for himself pretty much convinces me of it, but LD voted for himself too to save icemac, at this point Im tempted to do like coag and jump on someone else entirely, but thats going to be a waste

chaoser
damn...looks like i was wrong =/