TL Mafia XXXVII
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GMarshal
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GMarshal
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On February 12 2011 18:07 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I decided to throw in a twist where half way through the game I arbitrarily decide to switch to majority lynch. Does that seem less silly? It seems equally silly, but fun nonetheless, go for either of them, or if you feel particularly cruel, go for both! Note though that the majority lynch switch is neutral as it can hurt/help mafia and town equally while the role reverser can only hurt town, as far as fairness goes, I think the change is more fair if you want to make it benefit mafia then inform them of what day it is going to happen ahead of time, watch them laugh mercilessly. Just my thoughts | ||
GMarshal
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On February 10 2011 15:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Possible Boot Camp Information Here is a small tip. If you can't tell by the set up. This game is designed so you fuckers have to learn to use PM's properly or get royally screwed. This game is ALSO designed to emphasize behavior analysis over EVERYTHING. This IS punishment for Salem Mafia. So, I wasn't in Salem Mafia, can I ask what we exactly we are being punished for? | ||
GMarshal
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On February 20 2011 14:08 chaoser wrote: I think that was the one where a PM ring was formed and infiltrated by day one and then we pretty much depended on it and that drove us to failville, population: town Sounds kind of funny, if I have time I'll go back and read it | ||
GMarshal
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*bump* I need this to start soon as Orgah is about to end, and I don't know if I can make it through the day without my daily mafia fix | ||
GMarshal
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GMarshal
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GMarshal
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GMarshal
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GMarshal
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Heck, I had 90 some posts over about 9 month before I started playing mafia a little over a month ago, now I'm almost at 500, clearly mafia is the key to getting to defiler/bc/archon quickly | ||
GMarshal
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Ok, let me discuss blues then as usual DO NOT CLAIM!!!! So, let me just point out that in this game DTs are going to be extremely unreliable, as a matter of fact they would do best to go after players away from the spotlight as any player that is at all controversial is either going to get framed if town or covered if scum. This game is going to depend on us analyzing correctly, to be blunt I think DTs are absolutely worthless in this set up. As usual vigi's should save their shot for what they consider to be confirmed scum, while medics have to be careful with their protects due to the potential for reversal, however I think they should still continue to protect the most outspoken/town players I'm going to be really harsh on punishing inactivity this game as we had 5(!) modkills due to inactivity in orgah, and the end of the game consisted of me vs 3 lurkers, my goal this game is to end the game with only active players. After all an active scum can be analyzed and caught. eh for now let me vote for an "inactive" player (30 minutes into the game ) (I rolled a 30 sided die, I got a 20, so player #20 ) ##Vote Conversion | ||
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GMarshal
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Maybe I should wait till later in the day before voting for anyone ##Unvote As for what to do in PM, I propose we all find a PM buddy and bounce analysis off him, if he is scum it gives you more to analyze, if he isn't then you have someone to scrutinize your logic. However do not trust *anyone* as we won't know if they are scum or not until we flip them with a lynch, if you are blue this means not claiming. I for one intend to leave all my PM history with an unrelated player (unrelated to whom ever I'm PMing obviously) in case I die it can be posted so town has more to analyze, [I may make an exception for claims, but you should not be claiming to me anyway]. What else? | ||
GMarshal
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GMarshal
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GMarshal
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On February 23 2011 12:45 OriginalName wrote: What if your Scum and this is a trick What If your PM buddy is scum What If your history keeper is scum This all seems rather inefficent and I remember that game where people blindly roleclaimed to Pandain which caused a town loss. Marshal I really think your an awesome player but this is not the way to go about this. PMs are good for a similer kind of thing but RNG is still random. You can accomplish the same thing by posting and then asking for PMed opinions. it's really hard for town to get information and opinions when your only confiding in one person. There are ~24 of us. We all need to make smart decisions. By a PM buddy I really mean 2-3 people, like a mini town circle, its basically what chaoser suggested, right? Also if I happen to manage to pick both a PM buddy and a History Keeper that are scum then my scum sense sucks | ||
GMarshal
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(even assuming I were scum there is no way) I could ensure each has a mafia member in it as there isn't enough mafia to go around (I am trying to put at least 1 TL vet in each) as the game progresses and people die we can have new cells form. (also you are free to create your own parallel cells) 1. Coagulation, LSB, gryffindor 2 GMarshal, seRapH, OriginalName 3 Mr. Wiggles, ICanFlyLow, kevconsim 4 Barundar, LastArgument , why 5 darmousseh, Ser Aspi, Kenpachi 6 Gofarman, chaoser, ohN 7 astroorion, CubEdIn, Jackal58 8 Beneather, annul, Conversion 9 icemac, Foolishness, LunarDestiny 10 deconduo, kitaman27, JBright This is just a suggestion, but I think it is a good one, discuss | ||
GMarshal
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Hmmm, no red text this game. Let me spell this out, I suggest that people bounce analysis on the people in their group before posting. This also allows people to bounce ideas of each other and generate more discussion and ideas. This is to 1 generate new ideas, 2 point out faulty logic, 3 give us more to analyze. You have no obligation to do this, but I think its a good idea, the groups are essentially random with the exception of including a tl vet in each group. | ||
GMarshal
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On February 23 2011 13:25 LunarDestiny wrote: i don't like this. Lets say that 4 groups are contaminated with mafia. Then mafia will know 40% of the info, that is a lot of info and influence for them to work with. The brilliance is that no "secret" information is going to be shared, its only for bouncing off ideas and analysis, this encourages more active posting as you feel obliged by more active players asking you questions and bouncing ideas off you. This leads to people posting more and more stuff to analyze At least that is my reasoning | ||
GMarshal
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Alternatively you may want to randomly shift rows of up and down to rearrange the groups, as I said even if I were mafia assuming 7 mafia (a high number, but possible) then at most I could have 3 groups with 2 mafia in each, or 7 groups infiltrated, if used properly it should not matter if the groups are infiltrated as no confidential information will be shared in it, feel free to shift the group if you with though | ||
GMarshal
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This would get us raped by the role reverser, and is really a scummy idea unvote; ##Vote: GMarshal did you not read the part about it being only for analysis? There will be no roleclaims in those circles, unlike you not all players feel the urge to announce their blue status to make themselves targets for mafia. Are you tired or are you playing stupid intentionally? | ||
GMarshal
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On February 23 2011 14:09 gryffindor wrote: Oh, so now you have to dip into Ad Hominem Go ahead and crossvote with me, mafia I'm onto you You are playing completely differently than I saw you as town No, I'm playing different than when you saw me as a DT in a no flip game, its a completely different scenario, also I don't think I'm playing that different, but it is a different scenario. You completely misinterpreted what I said about cells, I restated what i said about cells several times so if you read my posts you should have understood what the intention behind the cells was now I have a question to ask you: what was the purpose of claiming vet? Now mafia won't hit you neglecting your usefulness as a hit absorber, also requesting claims is a scum tell. What plan are you going to propose next, perhaps a nice mass claim to make it easy on mafia? You are setting off every alarm on my scumdar, my only defense of you is that I dont think mafia would play this badly | ||
GMarshal
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On February 23 2011 19:21 ohN wrote: 'Just finished catching up My thoughts: Cells are a good idea but GMarshal giving us predetermined groups that he thinks we should work with is pretty scummy. They weren't just like 1-3, 4-6 either, he moved them around to his liking. Not a good candidate for day1 lynch because I don't feel that that alone is enough to incriminate him but definitely FoS on him. I dont see how people think + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:40 chaoser wrote: Ok, so like Gmarshal said, we shouldn't depend on blues this game. Especially since RoL specifically said this game was to punish us for what happened in Salam. At the same thing, I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about. PMs are allowed but PLEASE don't just give out crazy info in them (roleclaim, etc.). The point of town is not to have 1 leader controlling everything but small circles that are separated so that if one goes down, the others can still operate. Let's all work together and not let a few players handle all the work (which always seems to happen). This means contributing pleaseee. Him noting that mafia isn't that powerful is something anybody could point out. Role reversal has huge potential but only if mafia has a confirmed blue. They still have to give up an entire kp to use it so they will not be open to using it without being absolutely sure. Role reversal on a townie does nothing except waste a kp. I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't posted anything useful or that guy who thought annul was inactive(lol). If you want feel free to RNG the groups, I just made it so each group had at least one veteran player so that new players could get good feedback, if you want you could slide one of the columns up or down a random number to change the groups around also On February 23 2011 17:20 gryffindor wrote: Easily. It leads to the sharing of information, which the mafia need in this setup to properly use their abilities of role reversing the town into submission, as opposed to straight up kill power. If they know you are a Veteran, they can make you a PGO We don't need cells, we have claiming If you want scumhunting, do it yourself The general plan for a town in a whisper/PM setup is 1) Wait on a confirm 2) Massclaim to the confirmed 3) Profit I have issues with this post of your gryffindor, 1 it looks suspiciously like the plan that ended up with town getting raped in salem, 2 what benfit do you get from a mass claim when the DTs can be easily fooled? All the other roles don't require any kind of exposure as Vigi and Hatters can use their own discretion and medics should have clear cut choices. What does mass claiming to a "confirmed" (you still haven't set out a mechanism to confirm a townie) do for them other than expose them to getting hit by mafia? Also I agree that if you want scumhunting you should do it yourself, but like many other things it benefits from peer review, again this is partially to stimulate activity as in PM games newer players often feel left out of the backstage conversations and post less for that reason, its extremely frustrating in that situation. Also assuming the setup is 5-7 mafia they still have 3-4 kill points which is average for a 30 person game, this means that they don't need to use their role reversing powers successfully to win, they just need to slaughter the town, if they can do that by using role reversal then it will be faster, but ultimately they don't have to. TBH I think you are town, I just think your plan would cost us the game if we were to follow it | ||
GMarshal
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On February 23 2011 15:23 gryffindor wrote: with 30, i doubt there are 8 5-6 is much more likely, with 6 being more likely, unless they start with roles (which I doubt) due to the mechanics 5 with an SK I would believe would be balanced as well, but i'm seeing 6 and 2.5-3kp, or something like "you may not kill 3 people" as 3 kp is a bit much right now we will learn soon enough. It is also possible they get to pick to be permanent, or nightly. I'm not quite sure on the mechanic. Lets assume it is permanent, and they pick a GF and a role reverser they'd still have 1.5kp which would round up to 2 afaik The best thing to do is to not come out if you're a hatter, for sure If you're a cop, I wouldn't come out unless you have a guilty, or are pressured I wouldn't ever claim as medic, unless someone you protected and saved is up for lynch Veteran is OK to claim, many setups have bulletproofs claiming first Vigilante is OK to claim TOMORROW if you claim who you are going to kill - Don't claim today, as you can't kill tonight I'm going to address this piece by piece ok? On February 23 2011 15:23 gryffindor wrote: with 30, i doubt there are 8 5-6 is much more likely, with 6 being more likely, unless they start with roles (which I doubt) due to the mechanics 5 with an SK I would believe would be balanced as well, but i'm seeing 6 and 2.5-3kp, or something like "you may not kill 3 people" as 3 kp is a bit much right now I agree 5-6 seems reasonable and generally scum dont get roles, at least in my experience, however this isn't that relevant. Also 3 kp would be reasonable especially considering how the mechanics of this game work On February 23 2011 15:23 gryffindor wrote: we will learn soon enough. It is also possible they get to pick to be permanent, or nightly. I'm not quite sure on the mechanic. Lets assume it is permanent, and they pick a GF and a role reverser they'd still have 1.5kp which would round up to 2 afaik you completely misunderstood the OP. Here is what happens, night 1 mafia get to choose a GF (I'm assuming one right now for explanation purposes), this does not cost them a KP, rather as long as the GF is alive they have 1 kp +.5 for every other mafia member alive (Assuming 5 others, that would be 3.5kp). These KP can be expended as usual to murder people, if they choose however they can sacrifice .5 of a kp to use certain powers and 1 kp to role reverse, in this setup its actually as efficient for them to go ahead an just shoot people as it is to reverse them, save in a few circumstances. Does this make sense? if we assume mafia is not going to use any of their powers the first night then that means 3-4 people will die tonight, barring medic saves and vets. On February 23 2011 15:23 gryffindor wrote: The best thing to do is to not come out if you're a hatter, for sure If you're a cop, I wouldn't come out unless you have a guilty, or are pressured I wouldn't ever claim as medic, unless someone you protected and saved is up for lynch Veteran is OK to claim, many setups have bulletproofs claiming first Vigilante is OK to claim TOMORROW if you claim who you are going to kill - Don't claim today, as you can't kill tonight The best thing to do if you are a blue is NOT TO CLAIM. Claiming makes you a target, vets should NOT claim as if they don't and appear pro town then they attract mafia shots and make them waste kp which is their job. Medics should never claim, Vigis can claim before they fire I suppose but since mafia also controls KP it would be easy to fake. Detectives should probably only claim if they check someone who isn't in the spotlight and get scum, since frames and covers make it easy for scum to fool them into killing town. (Actually I'm almost a proponent of lynching the DT first then the alleged scum, as this way you can check if the DT is actually a DT or a mafia trying to pull a fast one, we'll debate it if the topic ever comes up). Hatters should not claim and should be cautious with their bomb placement. generally DO NOT CLAIM TO ANYONE, claiming makes you a target, if you are an useful role then this is bad | ||
GMarshal
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So answer me this, what benefit do blues get out of claiming to confirmed townies? how can you guarantee to me that someone is a townie? (vig's aren't sure due to mafia controlling KP, medic protected people I might trust more but all it takes are two mafia willing to stick their neck out to get a nice list of all the blues in the game following your plan. I'll say it again, DO NOT CLAIM. PMs are to be used for information gathering and analysis discussion, to poke and prod and force mafia to slip up. Also "this is how you play" is not a good explanation of why its a good idea, while I gave plenty of reasons why it is a poor one. since people seem to be dissatisfied with my sorting I made new groups these are simply 1,2,3 then 4,5,6 etc. No one is obliged to use them, but for new players especially it helps to have people to bounce ideas off. It also leads to people being more pressured to post (does this make you people more happy now? Is it clear that this isn't some dastardly mafia plan to control the flow of ideas?) 1.) Coagulation LSB Barundar 2.) CubEdIn Jackal58 Kenpachi 3.) darmousseh annul gryffindor 4.) GMarshal Beneather icemac 5.) OriginalName , JBright ,seRapH 6.) ohN ,astroorion, Foolishness 7.) Gofarman ,Conversion ,kitaman27 8.) kevconsim ,ICanFlyLow ,Mr. Wiggles 9.) chaoser LunarDestiny Ser Aspi 10.) deconduo why LastArgument | ||
GMarshal
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On February 23 2011 23:48 gryffindor wrote: I love discussing the possible setups with you, but it is really giving you an easy way out of actually scumhunting, so lets direct the power roles less and actually try to scumhunt, ok? This I can agree with, although I think we are both somewhat responsible for going off on blue directing. | ||
GMarshal
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GMarshal
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##Vote why | ||
GMarshal
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This is an issue how? I could see it if my PM read something like "hey I'm a vigi, tell me your role, NOW!" but this is just asking for opinions | ||
GMarshal
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No I dont want read isolated, but people aren't posting them in the thread anyway, I may as well ask, I encourage people to go ahead and post them but by asking I'm forcing people to at least think about it, and if I see what I perceive as a scum tell or even a really good analysis then I'll tell the person to post it in the thread, or I'll post it myself. However by keeping those reads "isolated" I avoid the typical scum tactic of restating someone elses opinion in other words (e.g. If I say I think Quatol is scum for A, B and C, it usualy turns into 4-5 people saying "yeah, yeah" and scum "contributing" by saying "well Quatol is scum for B, C and A") So ON, who are your scum reads since you insist so much that all interaction should take place in the thread? | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 01:53 deconduo wrote: My issue wasn't that you sent me a PM, it was that you and gryff sent me an almost identical one within a couple hours of each other. This coupled with the fact that the two of you have been going back and forth without actually saying much makes me FOS you. Well hypothetically if we were scum wouldn't we have coordinated that better? Anyway as I said I've been PM alot of people to get their opinions so I'm not that surprised that I happened to overlap with someone | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote: Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote: I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. Ok, I can see that, I really didn't consider the possibility in an endgame scenario | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 06:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Detectives return the ROLE of a player. Assuming that mafia is not covered and the townie is not framed it will return "mafia" and "townie" respectively. so basically the framer defeats both Cops and Detectives, wonderful, now that this has been cleared up allow me to state that DTs are semi worthless then and should go after people not in the spotlight, as those results will be the most suspect | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 06:23 deconduo wrote: That lessens the power of the DT but they are still nowhere near useless. -They will can verify other blues -They still return the right alignment if role reversed -Mafia are forced to waste KP if they want to Cover/Frame Alright useless was a wrong choice, however I don't want people just going out and claiming DT just because they got red on a check on someone controversial, there has to be more substance to it, e.g. scummy posting associated with it, checked twice and got the same result, something like that Point 1 did not occur to me, great catch, although blues can still be framed Point 2 I dont quite get what you mean, can you explain it a little more Point 3 is the reason DTs should try to avoid claiming, to keep scum on their toes and force the expenditure of kps | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 06:29 annul wrote: also hi. am out of class now why arent we killing chaoser or GM? im gonna go ##vote chaoser now myself. Yep the brilliance of going after some of the most active and contributing players the first day! I guess seeing what bandwagons form will provide us with good information | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 06:32 CubEdIn wrote: When does voting end? I got home a couple of minutes ago and I'm too tired to think, so I wanna vote in the morning after I get some time to properly go through the thread, and not bandwagon randomly. I am all achy, excuse my ignorance. Game started yesterday night so the vote is tomorrow at 03:00 GMT (+00:00) | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 06:42 annul wrote: actually in fact, the only way you can claim "ive been really scummy so far" is if you saw my play last night, and if you did, then you know i already explained that vote. interesting. Actually I agree with deconduo, can you point to a single useful contribution you have made? As a matter of fact have you done anything but clamor for hanging me and chaoser? Also does anyone else get the feeling that there is a large number of lurkers/inactives right now? I think I'm going to go poke them with the PM stick. | ||
GMarshal
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+ Show Spoiler + uh has this game started? i dont see a day 1 post or even a role PM ok, we can discount this post + Show Spoiler + okay hi peeps vote chaoser. that post reeks of redness. p.s. still no role PM! Ok, two things throwing around FoS without justification is a big no-no, if you think something is scummy give a reason, I won't comment about role PM timings as I do believe it is against the rules, still no way to call this a contribution at all + Show Spoiler + also where is the voting thread? ok + Show Spoiler + nobody in this game should trust gryffindor whatsoever. i read orgah and i have NO IDEA how he didnt die like 5 days before he did also, he's a smurf and if you read this forum you should already know who he is ;\ I agree I have no idea why he didn't die earlier in Orgah, however that is neither here nor there, although I will agree about not trusting him, too bad annul is going to essentially agree with everything Gryf says + Show Spoiler + it reeks of red because he is like "hey so theres weak powers in this game lol" which can only be known if he is a red, since if he was green he cant make that blanket claim and if he was a blue, he'd even be less inclined to make that claim the only way he can do that is if he is red and he sees the red team has weak or no powers finally a justification of his FoS on chooser, lets analyze it shall we? so essentially because chaoser thinks that mafia powers aren't that powerful (and cost for cost they may not be) this means he must be scum, faulty logic at best. Also the powers are in the OP, so no need for him to be red to make comments on them, all in all its a really weak reason to FoS someone + Show Spoiler + yeah that would be... foolish YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA spam, lovely, although it did get a small grin from me + Show Spoiler + what? that post makes no sense. like, i dont mean the logic, i mean the grammar (though the logic probably sucks too) I don't know what he is referring to, and I dislike the snarky comment, also not a contribution + Show Spoiler + Meme in response to my cells idea well it was a funny picture, but hardly a contribution + Show Spoiler + same reason you knew the mafia was weak? repeating bad logic does not make it into reality + Show Spoiler + pretty sure its better for people to post things in the thread -- much easier to catch red slips that way. if people only post in these mini town circles, then people are probably more inclined psychologically to trust their town circle and not consider them red, etc. actually a decent argument! +1 to his contribution count! Still I've said and emphasized that PMs are a tool to be used for scumhunting and that the purpose of the circles is to promote activity, and not to trust anyone still I like to see that annul is at least thinking + Show Spoiler + (/snip) (Me asking what the purpose of claiming vet is) wifom one word response that fails to really address the question, still though gryffindor can at least rest easy that he will not be killed, not because he is a vet but because he is disrupting town + Show Spoiler + I'M A VET TOO I BROKE THE DAM ...ok...moving on + Show Spoiler + but for real lets kill chaoser and GM the level of depth to this argument is breathtaking, I do wish it came with an index so I could properly format my response to each of his well made points + Show Spoiler + (/snip RoLs first clarification about DTs) mafia and townie are not roles, they are alignments... I thought RoL made sense, still I guess having things clarified is never a bad thing, lets call it .5 of a contribution + Show Spoiler + also hi. am out of class now why arent we killing chaoser or GM? im gonna go ##vote chaoser now myself. hi! when voting please provide reasons, otherwise I might think you are just trying to get people lynched for no reason, we wouldn't want that, now would we? + Show Spoiler + (/snip chaoser asking for a vote justification) i already did, you should probably read the entire thread I addressed your "reasoning" already, now do me a favor and try harder, also if someone asks its not that hard to go back and quote your post + Show Spoiler + actually in fact, the only way you can claim "ive been really scummy so far" is if you saw my play last night, and if you did, then you know i already explained that vote. interesting. what? color me confused. what vote? guess what? spamming useless one liners and not contributing is scummy! + Show Spoiler + (/snip me sarcastically saying that its a good idea to lynch chaoser and I) its brilliant when you post the dumbest shit possible yeah harmful activity isnt exempt on day 1 so, please go over in detail what "the dumbest shit possible" is. Maybe if I had suggested a mass claim or perhaps the formation of a circle of confirmed blues rather than independent scum hunting teams that would have made you happy? please tell me what harmful posts I've made, I really want to know so I can rectify my play in the future. I'll say it one more time; do not make unsupported statements and expect me to take them at all seriously contribution count= 1.5 (with me being really generous with what constitutes a contribution, really more like .75) post count = 18 verdict = either aggressive scum or bad townie If his posts continue to be this poor then we may have no choice but to hang him | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 10:22 icemac wrote: Also, I just want to say that these cell things is either big balls move by mafia or the workings of bad play. What is it with you people and unsupported statements, how is it bad play? please explain While I'm at it what is your opinion on my analysis of annul? also what do you think of gryffindors alternate plan ? Who do you think is a good lynch target? | ||
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On February 24 2011 10:27 gryffindor wrote: Agree. Vote gmarshal with me, he is the one who had the.idea ok, go for it, please kill one of the most active players, the one who actually proposed a plan that is an alternative to "lets let GFs fuck us over, like in salem",if town is stupid enough to go with your plan and your lynch then I hope they realize their mistake in time to hang you. Let me be frank, I think you are town, but how absolutely terribly you are playing almost merits a lynch, ffs you can't even seem to point out a major flaw in my plan aside from "it not how this setup is played! I know because I am a mafia god!". I guess this is your master plan for surviving, make mafia unwilling to hit you by helping them along. You want to hang me? post a goddamn analysis I can at least rebuff rather than these unsupported accusations that are "GMarshal is scum, because I say so" major, major FoS on anyone who goes along with your bandwagon | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 10:39 icemac wrote: Analysis doesn't mean shit Day 1. I don't see why you feel so compelled to pull stuff out of your ass and call it high level analysis. nice defense, I love the part where you address all my questions, especially the one about why my plan is bad, also I notice you have many in depth contributions, so I guess its justified that you would criticize a poor lurker like me, and allow me to note I never once referred to anything as high level analysis, good way to dodge the questions though! Care to insult me too at this point? I mean im sure a few well aimed offensive remarks would add depth to your brilliant deconstruction of why my plan is scummy. Also post analysis is always good, at any point of the game from day one to lylo, so please take your scummy ideas and aggressive attacks to some more easily intimidated player | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 10:46 icemac wrote: Alright, let's just say you are being productive, what conclusions are you actually arriving at? Sure 1.) This is a set up that is going to emphasize using PMs to root out mafia 2.) due to the set up and conditions any plan like the salem blue circle is going to be doomed 3.) The best way I see to address this is to make small town circles and use them to gather information 4.) there should be no claiming save rare circumstances,not even in PM and not even to "confirmed" townies 5.) We need to make sure lurkers post as they often cost us the game, hence PM circles can pressure them into posting, also directing votes at them can push them into activity 6.) Gryffindor is most likely just a townie that is playing an awful game of mafia, the fact that he suggests a plan exactly like the one that cost us the game in salem is cause for alarm 7.) annul is most likely not scum either, just another stupid townie, if he were mafia someone would tell him to cut the shit out 8.) DTs are almost worthless 9.) Jackal may be mafia he is not playing his usual agressive, tunneling game, and is almost as subdued as in MiniMafia V 10.) you still failed to address my questions | ||
GMarshal
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On February 24 2011 10:43 kitaman27 wrote: The only reason to include every post is when your strongest points lack substance. If you are trying to "fluff" your argument then it probably means you came up with your verdict prior to analysis. I love "scum or town" verdicts. 1.) I always do post by post, check the end of orgah and my analysis of beefy (which ended up being dead wrong by the way) 2.) I'll retract that, thinking on it I'm convinced its just stupid townie, however I wouldn't oppose his lynch as he is playing poorly and hurting town | ||
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On February 24 2011 11:18 Jackal58 wrote: Drink beer and play pinochle. Icemac is on my "scrutinize every word" list. So are the following: Annul GMarshall Gryfindor Wonderful, as long as somone is paying attention town should win Just one thing though, isn't ironic that you are inactive until about 3 minutes after we call you out on being inactive? To me at least that seems somewhat suspicious. | ||
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On February 24 2011 11:24 annul wrote: i dont really know why it takes more than one post to inform a vote the cells idea was absolute garbage. so i am pointing at him. the whole "HEY LOL WE HAVE WEAK ROLES" is a ridic tell as well. what more analysis is there to do? let me say it again, Please explain why you think the cells idea is a bad one, its really difficult for me to actually respond to an accusation that is "lol, scummy idea, lol", hell for all I know you may have an excellent argument for it, one that destroys the idea and leaves me looking like a fool, but as of right now I dont see where you are getting that its a bad idea | ||
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##unvote | ||
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On February 24 2011 11:39 annul wrote: ok well i mean i have great reads on both of them, but i dont know what else i need to say about it. can you tell me why chaoser and GM are NOT red? the cells idea is horrible. why do we want to keep analysis private? there is no point in "bouncing off ideas" to a RNG "town circle". this only hurts us. why keep analysis of any type from the town? also, the point of these town circles is what exactly? to have people critique any analysis before "revealing" it? ok assume that is the case, then what happens when the mafia are in these cells? player A says "OK so i got an analysis on player D (outside the cell), who i think is mafia" player B says "no thats horrible, ________" and convinces A. A now doesnt say anything, to not look stupid (that IS the point of these cells, after all!). oops, B and D are mafia. we're fucked. if A just came out and said "hey i have this analysis" B is probably less likely to defend D if it's blatant redness No, the point is to cause otherwise inactive players to feel obliged to post, it is to increase the amount of information available, when I ask a general question like "what do you guys think about GMarshal" lurkers are free to either ignore it or jump on what one person says. By using these circles people are actually forced to voice an opinion if you guys want there is nothing stopping you from posting all the analysis you do in the circle and every random thought you have in the general thread, also its important for people to remember that it is possible that people in their circle are scum, thats part of the goal of the circle. Also nothing is stopping a player who writes a good analysis from bouncing it off people outside their circle. Although I will agree that the weakness of this circle plan is the fact that a 2 scum circle can adversely influence the townie tldr: the point of the circle is to force people to think rather than sheeping with other peoples opinions | ||
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On February 24 2011 12:01 annul wrote: i dont think circles actually force people to think. they inhibit it. and circles with mafia in them can really fuck with the townies. how do they inhibit thinking? I'm curious as to why you think that | ||
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On February 24 2011 12:06 OriginalName wrote: Inactive in thread will still be inactive in PMs. but its less likely to happen if you have someone asking your opinion and thoughts every day or so, I mean I know that when I was new I didn't post as much because it was terrifying, I'm not saying it will magically make everyone active but it should at least encourage activity, at the very least the other members of the circle will realize the person is inactive and will make sure it dosn't go by unnoticed I still dont see how the circle inhibits thinking, part of playing mafia is being confident in your analysis, if someone thinks your analysis is awful you go ahead and post it in the main thread, if others think its good then congrats you may have uncovered scum, if they also think its awful then its a learning experience... | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + To: deconduo [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Mafia XXXVII Date: 2/24/11 00:13 Hi! So,I'm curious as to what your reads are this game, care to share? | ||
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On February 24 2011 12:49 annul wrote: more like you are a name ive never seen before and you have 45 total posts and are playing TL mafia and what you said didnt even merit a reply, tbh. it looked like some random attack to gauge reaction. not to quibble but I had like 90 posts when I started playing mafia... I don't see how you can possibly make a judgment based on that. | ||
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FoS on you, not for accepting the idea but for your hand picked cell list Allow me to point out a list that cannot be biased or affected by mafia, I posted it earlier, it consists of grouping players #1,2,3 into group 1, player 4,5,6 into group 2 etc. While it won't have the advantage of natural leaders and it dosn't guarantee we have experienced leaders in each cell it is guaranteed not to have hand picked scum teams in each. (Not that it would matter if they *did* but its better to always hinder scum's plans) | ||
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On February 24 2011 23:31 Jackal58 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:46 gryffindor wrote: I'm a veteran claims to me On February 24 2011 15:20 gryffindor wrote: the HOST actually told me it was a good idea. Actualy Jackal brings up a good point, dont we have a LaL policy in place? I'd hate to see it ignored just because jackal seems like a good lynch target, especially after gryffindors sudden change of heart | ||
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On February 25 2011 01:45 chaoser wrote: This statement by him is pretty good, I agree that both can be combined if needed. Makes me think he's green cause he's willing to compromise instead of just toeing the line which is much easier to do as mafia than to reach across the aisle. Actually I missed that part of gryffs post when reading it, fine then its not as abrupt a change as I thought, and I can understand the urge to put out a list to counter my original list, I'll retract my FoS on you gryff. I think you are probably town. Personalty I would never claim, to anyone, but people are free to do as they wish, and if you do get a working town circle out of it then more power to you. Now lets try to reach a consensus on a day 1 vote | ||
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##Vote annul come on people only a few hours left and we have to lynch someone, it may as well be someone who's death will provide us with key information | ||
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1.) He is playing poorly, if he is town then I don't want to bring him with me into situations in which I need to be able to scumhunt without being tunneled the entire time. I am perfectly fine with people writing accusations and analysis against me, and when an excellent analysis pops up that "proves" I am scum I will be the first to praise it, despite it being wrong. My only objective this game is to get people to think for themselves rather than accept what they are told, this is the surest way to ensure town victory. Face it, what annul is doing is not scumhunting its tunneling and accusation without solid base, if he were kind enough to actually provide a decent amount of support for his accusations then, yes I would have no issue taking him with me to the late game, and would retract my vote now 2.) I would rather not lynch a new player that has the balls to go out and post, sure he is new and learning, but I'd rather hang a vet who I know can do better and is playing intentionally poor than a new player who has a chance to learn. I would rather *not* lynch annul, so I will propose an alternative target, a lurker who just bandwagoned, without providing a reason ICanFlyLow | ||
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I still dont think annul is scum, hence I will not contribute to hanging him, if you guys want to feel free, but I'm going to trust LD's experience with this player, heck I'm slightly pissed at annul for tunneling on me, but still I don't want to waste my vote killing a player I think is town, and while I wouldn't be happy to have annul with me at lylo, I would be even unhappier to have ICanFlyLow with me ##Unvote ##vote: ICanFlyLow | ||
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If I am wrong and annul flips scum this is going to look terrible for me, but w/e we all have to commit to something | ||
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here let me do it for you: FoS on GMarshal for defending him But hey on the bright side, FoS on LD as well | ||
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First thing take everything I say with a grain of salt, I am a very suspicious player now Medics: Protect LSB, Mr.Wiggles and Foolishness DTs; check inactive players and players away from the spotlight, people like SerApH and ICanFlyLow is probably a good idea, if you want to check me that's fine but realize that I could be covered if I am scum, framed if I am town, or just a very stupid godfather, so this in no way clears me. Take all your results with a grain of salt Mad Hatters; Place bombs on the most suspicious players (LD, me, really inactive players, etc), and people who you think are probably mafia, careful though if you are mistaken and die you take out two town players. Vigi's; Nothing tonight Anyone else have any thoughts? | ||
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On February 26 2011 17:37 gryffindor wrote: ##Vote: Jackal58 I was on the Annul wagon, a wagon on mafia. Were you? I didn't think so. Its called bussing, its a basic scum strategy to appear pro-town by, when the lynch of a team mate appears probable or inevitable jumping on the wagon. I shouldn't need to tell an experienced player like you this gryff, the fact that people were wrong in thinking annul was town does not make them scum, and conversely voting for him does not make you town. allow me to ask, do you still stand by your vet claim? I won't quibble about your sarcasm or lack thereof. it looks like a OMGUS vote to me, and your reasoning is weak to say the least, as this single vote can be quite revealing but it alone in no way makes a case against someone. | ||
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I like this list because it thinks longterm, while it won't be terribly useful for scum hunting now, when day 5 rolls around it will be much more useful. Thinking critically I can't really find anything really at fault on this list other than it seems like List 1 players are being given perhaps a little too much of a protective treatment, which could be a scum move to ensure they get to late game/waste medics, still it seems like a solid thought process | ||
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##Vote: MaxwellE He has yet to post anything at all, I think I made my dislike of inactivity abundantly clear earlier, so here have a vote, now post something of value! | ||
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So the first real development is Coag posting a vote against cube, which is an ok move as we need to pressure the more inactive players, jackal does the same a little bit later, because it bears repeating here is Jackal's handy list of players with few posts + Show Spoiler + he following need to step up their game: Gofarman - 8 posts astroorion - 3 posts JBright - 4 posts ICanFlyLow - 2 posts ohN - 3 posts why - 6 posts CubEdIn - 6 posts LastArgument - 7 posts Fewer that 10 posts this far in is inexcusable. note that IcanFlyLow was replaced then I post with a little bit of thought as to what the kills mean for us, and repeate my NO CLAIM message, which chaoser and LSB repeat in the following posts, still at this point nothing exciting has happened and then we get the first real interesting post Jackal after saying not to claim goes ahead and points a FoS at gryffindor, he dosen't provide any backing for me to comment on, so I hope he takes the time to make a post with some actual analysis other than "he claimed vet" which is actually a scummy move, but not enough on its own to make a judgment one way or the other. Grryfindor then does an OMGUS vote against jackal using as his defense "I voted for annul" which is at best a flimsy defense, but then again the attack was flimsy too. My only concern is that gryffindor dosn't point this out an demand an explanation (the rational choice to defend himself) but rather resorts to an OMGUS, which is a poor defense most times. Coag then points out that gryffindor is emphasizing the fact that he voted for scum way too much and that that may be a scum tell, I am inclined to agree with coagulation on that one, in fact I would really like it if jackal fleshed out his attack against gryffindor to see what kind of defense gryffindor might try to put up. Gryffindor then goes ahead and defends himself, since I want to really analyze his defense I'm going to quote his post and go point by point + Show Spoiler + I'm going to have to start linking my games here as meta... I haven't ever bussed someone on teamliquid; it isn't how mafia is played here. If you expect people to be bussing, you are playing very poorly as town. WI'm going to have to start linking my games here as meta... I haven't ever bussed someone on teamliquid; it isn't how mafia is played here. If you expect people to be bussing, you are playing very poorly as town. Would I really go out of my way to push the lynch of my mafia buddy? Would said mafia buddy THEN counterpush me? Who have I had interactions with that would look like my scumbuddies? ok so here you say bussing is not how mafia is played here, which is blatantly wrong, in minimafia V, node jackal and I were on the same scum team and we bussed jackal day 1, with Node leading the analysis against him. There are other examples like the game (I don't rember the #) where LSB ran for mayor with a scummy plan and Dr.H decided to bus him, LSB survived that day by persuading RoL that he was town in PM's, but still bussing is a technique that is used on TL so that use of meta is downright wrong. Also everything besides that last question is WIFOM , as if you thought it was likely annul was going to be lynched with LSB pushing him it would be a great idea for you to get on the wagon early. As to who would you have had interactions with? annul actualy seemed to agree with most of what you said, and from a town perspective our argument about the plan may have been a good way to confirm us as town if we are both mafia. Icemac also seemed to be on your side aggressively pushing against my plan without any sold reason IF I am lynched, this is a very laughable town oh ok, you clearly prove your townness with that Annul had associative tells with both GMarshal and Icemac, both of whom we should pursue lynches on, but you all are so hurt that someone is a better player than you, you can't get over the fact that OMGUS/bussing is just senselessly being thrown at me when both aren't relevant to this particular scenario. The OMGUS relatedness isn't relevant because some OMGUS is very-town, especially when the goal of it is to point out that I'm part of the reason why Annul got lynched. ok, if you were really town your OMGUS would have looked something like "wtf voting against me with no reason jackal?" also what associative tells did i have with annul? that he pushed to lynch chaoser after FoSing me? and what I have no idea what associative tell you want to use to associate Icemac and me, still I appreciate the effort to at least do some scumhunting. and how are the terms OMGUS and bussing not relevant, they clearly are. Apart from GMarshal or IceMac, Seraph would also be a good lynch from my perspective, due to the recent post he made sounding like goading/fake-sincerity regarding the medic/cop snipe, and considering his excuse for lurking in the same post... well, it just reads forced and overly defensive. ok, I like that you are at least thinking, Seraph however I have a town read on, due to the fact that he has been at least moderately active in PM land, still I wouldn't mind getting more from him GMarshal looks like Annul's buddy to me, because Annul gave him a casual FoS in a post that he failed to try make look real, followed by voting someone else. It was way past where the RVS should end, and it was a lackluster post saying "Well, i'd lynch gmarshal or ___". He listed GMarshal first, talked about him like he was suspicious, then failed to vote him, voting someone else. ok, a decent point, wrong unfortunately, but a decent point, this at least seems like active scumhunting so kudos for that, but I think you are reading far too much into annul's aggressiveness, as IIRC he later voted for me (I dont really remember though) Now, I see I have a few votes on me now, so unvote I'm not convinced, you uncomfortable in the heat gryffindor? If you're unfamiliar with me, go read Orgah mafia. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186653 I am a Serial Killer in this game, and obviously scum. I say obviously, because my play there as scum is contrasted with how I am playing in this game. In that game, I was generally unhelpful, lurking, and inactive. This game, I am very active, and dedicated to the town teching up alow me to point out that changing your style is not that hard, compare my current active planning to my rather more crappy posting style in XXXVI. usually quoting other games and saying "see im nothing like this" is a scum tell, as changing ones style is not that great of a challenge thanks guys, love you all next decon posts he calls out gryffindor on a couple of the things I mentioned + on lying, which is a good call also in reply to "GMarshal, I feel you gotta step up. It looks like you tried to save annul near the end." I have no real defense, I did try to save annul as I thought he was town and it was LSB going for a grudge lynch, but let me say that being wrong about someone does not make me scum. chaoser then says he likes ohN's posts although there are only 3, which is dissapointing, still a contribution by chaoser, not much to say on it barundar then casts a FoS on LSB, I think LSB is playing pro-town and knowing LSB if he is scum he will continue to be active and slip up eventually, so I wouldn't wast a vote on him yet, although keep your eyes on him and watch out for scummy plans. LSB then does a pretty in depth analysis of barundar, however I think LSB is wrong, although he says its not OMGUS, I get the feeling that it really is, barundar defending annul does not make him scum, and bar was convinced jackal was scum before the wagon started (we discussed it in PM) he just did not want to leave an analysis early to be buried in the discussion between Gryffindor and I, while he was away. So I think LSB's point 1 is just outright wrong. Point 2 is interesting but I would not read too much into contradictions although I feel they aren't as contradictory as LSB thinks they are. Barundar promises a case against LSB, which I am anxious to see and analyze. More back and forth between LSB ensues, I'm going to wait on Barundar's analysis of LSB before really discussing it why then agrees with LSB to pressure Barundar which is ok, and then does something really good, he calls an inactive out, specifically he pegs Beneather, gj why although I still want to see you post more as you still feel lurkerish to me LSB then makes his list post, which I fully endorse, its a great idea and I give LSB +1 karma point for it, makes him seem like town in my eyes, some debate back and forth about it but we all agree it seems like a good idea, chaoser points out possible scummyness with LSB taking a leadership position, and questioning leaders is important for outing scum so chaoser seems more townie in my eyes for it just my general responses to things, feel free to question me/debate anything I say in here, as the point of this is to get some discussion going | ||
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##unvote ##vote Astroorion (Also I didn't realize I wrote that much for my post...) | ||
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e.g. 1.) proposed and pushed a terrible plan 2.) argued against a good plan 3.) lied 4.) set my house on fire even if we all know what they are it gives him room to respond and makes your case look better | ||
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As I see it right now this is a case of two townies tunneling on each other, so why don't we go after the player who seems to be trying to slip under the radar? Hi icemac, some people made arguments against you! Care to reply to them? ##Unvote ##vote icemac | ||
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ok I'm only going to take the relevant posts as people seem to dislike my posts where I look at every post (as usual my commentary in bold) + Show Spoiler + Seems like shit's hitting the wall pretty hard without any real leads so far. Since its too early, why not just get a semi-active who is probably smart enough to keep their heads in the game but not smart enough to post big as a mafia. I guess this is ironic coming from me seeing as how I've just got up to date & posting. this is an interesting point considering the fact that the people in suspicion at the time were me, gryff, annul and chaoser, if icemac flips red then we should scrutinize chaoser and gryffindor (and me actually) I'm not really sure of what to make of this post one way or another, seems just like a general town post + Show Spoiler + Also, I just want to say that these cell things is either big balls move by mafia or the workings of bad play. here is a post I take issue with, not because it goes against my plan, but because it provides no reasons for it, it just labels it as bad play. I have no problem with discussion, its when there is no reasoning behind it that I start to suspect people. Also its rather aggressive play for a player who just got here (not that that's a bad thing), but it is mimicking annul's "arguments" + Show Spoiler + Analysis doesn't mean shit Day 1. I don't see why you feel so compelled to pull stuff out of your ass and call it high level analysis. and here is a damning post, anyone who argues against analysis gets an automatic scum point in my book, and the rebuff saying it was pulled out of my ass in no way actually addresses any issues he may have with the analysis itself, +2 scum points + Show Spoiler + (~snip, gryffs mention of a possible link between me and annul) I doubt mafia is this stupid. Thats an interesting post actually, notice how this isn't constructive at all? I'm seeing a pattern here of not actually contributing and just dismissing things in general, now I know I'm town but if I were scum it could easily be a slip on annuls part, never dismiss a possible scum slip +1 scum point + Show Spoiler + I'm proposing we kill 0 of annul, GMarshal, gryffindor, chaoser and play it by ear afterwards. you were asked to clarify if you meant 1, if you did then this is a null contribution, as that was where the town was tending anyway and you failed to provide any reason why any of us was a compelling choice at all, +1 contentless posting! + Show Spoiler + (~snip me calling him out on the above posts) Alright, let's just say you are being productive, what conclusions are you actually arriving at? its a good question but he fails to substantiate his arguments, I think I call him out on dodging my questions later + Show Spoiler + (~snip, list of inactives by kita) Where are these people? thats not a contribution, at least put a vote on them to pressure them ,+1 meaningless posting + Show Spoiler + (~snip why's arguments against icemac) So by responding to posts, I'm up for lynch? I've said a lot: the current way we're analyzing data isn't optimal. I don't think we should be you using scant data on Day 1 such as you, yourself, are doing. The reason I'm not listing any names other than the inactives is because I have no reasoning against anyone. I don't think I'm forcing myself at all; instead, I'm making meaningful posts on how town should act on Day 1 which is lynching inactives and semi-actives trying to stay in the covers. Ok, so lets see that actual substance of your defense, basicly it is "I dont like analysis day 1" and "I dunno who to vote for" and you make a pretty basic mistake, you say town should go for lurkers day 1, which is a mistake, town should pressure lurkers day 1 and only lynch them if there is no better alternative, becuase it is easy for mafia to move votes onto a town inactive, rather than a scum lurker, still an easy mistake to make + Show Spoiler + (~snip do not claim message) seriously not a real contribution, but people have been doing this all game long (reinforcing the don't claim message) + Show Spoiler + What I mean is that we shouldn't lynch any actives because they're at least contributing. We'll be able to see their alignment or slipups in the future via posts/ pms/ hit patterns/ lynch patterns/ etc. If it's really that important, then I say ICanFlyLow for not talking at all. First person in the list I found that wasn't talking at all. ##Vote: ICanFlyLow so after deciding that my plan is scummy and 1 of gryffindor annul GMarshal or chaoser should be lynched you switch to an inactive? I already explained why voting for inactives to make them post is good, but after agroing on me so hard this seems like an abrupt change + Show Spoiler + (~snip ON making a FoS on him) How the heck am I red? Just because I'm smart enough to take a bipartisan approach to day 1 and not listen to over analysis and red-analysis doesn't mean I'm scum playing the middle of the road. Right now I'm pretty convinced you're either a baddie or straight up mafia. this is an OMGUS attack without the actual vote, since ON accused him he must be scum, this is bad play from icemac + Show Spoiler + Also, I'm not jumping into this Jackal58 bandwagon because I'm not bad. Lynch me if you will. this actualy merits a townie point, refusing to jump on an easy bandwagon to take votes and suspicion off himself + Show Spoiler + (~snip, Ser Aspi posts an accusation at wiggles) I like. Also, I hate how me and annul are cast with 100% of the blame for just being active holy shit. I think Ser Aspi is got something here. Trying to jump on an easy bandwagon or just easily persuaded? hard to tell, also you weren't taking the blame for being active, but rather for being aggressive without arguments. + Show Spoiler + What do you mean by a huge dive. I changed my vote from an afk-player who just stopped going afk to some major bandwagon scum. Playing it by ear. so you admit that you are essentially sheeping, that is terrible town play (see minimafia VII for an example of why), if you had at least said it was for reason 1,2 and 3 then it would have been but that just points to either bad play or something more sinister +.5 scum points + Show Spoiler + Fair analysis. I just want to ask about the lynches. Haven't played with TL before How significant are Darmousseh, Kitaman27, Mr. Wiggles as players? Are the known for being good players, etc. ? Also, is there any of their caliber that "should be dead" but isn't? I'm okay with ##Vote Barundar for now. stop sheeping , or if you are going to at least point out which points swayed you the most , ok LSB posted a good analysis but think critically about it, I will admit you weren't the only one swayed by it, so I'll give you a pass on that one. Also good questions, I'm glad you are thinking/asking them + Show Spoiler + Oh boy, if ohn is mafia and i'm town, i'm going to quote the hell out of this afterwards. it could be a slip, but we all make mistakes, Im willing to give him a pass Verdict: despite some mistakes and somewhat new play I don't think he is scum (last person I said that about was annul, so take it with a grain of salt), so for now I'm going to put him under sheeping town really though you need to start providing reasons for your posts. | ||
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##unvote ##vote astroorion | ||
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On February 28 2011 08:25 Ace wrote: ## Vote CubEdIn ##Vote Ace he seems like kind of a lurker, almost as if he weren't playing in this game or something | ||
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##unvote ##vote icemac | ||
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On February 28 2011 09:04 Jackal58 wrote: Well I suppose there is no such thing as a policy vote. Fair enough. ##unvote ##vote Icemac He's been doing post and ghost similar to divinek in XXXVI. And after a day of LSB and Barundar declaring No You! No You! I will take a dim view of people telling me I tunnel. go and look for the game where Ace and L yell at each other for a few pages, they defined tunneling that game (anyone remember which one it was?) | ||
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##unvote: icemac ##Vote: LunarDestiny | ||
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On February 28 2011 11:35 Coagulation wrote: he was active somewhat in orgah mafia hes completely inactive here Unvote ##vote jbright I fully agree, but I don;t think there is any way in hell we can get the vote off either of them, however I'm willing to try, if icemac flips scum after voting for himself I'll vote for myself from here on out. Unvote ##vote jbright | ||
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On March 01 2011 11:57 LSB wrote: I was role blocked last night. This is interesting, it hints at mafia having 3 kp or else they cannot afford to rb anyone. Also do any vigi's claim to have shot last night? because if you did then we know that mafia spent a whole KP doing something else, if no-one claims the vigi hit then we have to work on the assumption that there wasn't one. Also gryff you seemed pretty convinced you were going to die... | ||
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Instead lets take a look at Ser Aspi's Axis of Evil post, shall we? | ||
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##Vote Jbright | ||
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On February 28 2011 23:08 JBright wrote: There isn't all that much for me to say in this situation. I think my play so far have been a hindrance to town - at best a bad townie and at worst a lurking scum. Both situations won't bring me to a situation of being nightkilled, so I'll assume that I'll be up for a lynch by the next day cycle if there are no better candidates. Why would you do this? if you really are town then you are making us waste a lynch on you and you are wasting your vote, remember every townie we lynch brings us four deaths closer to lylo, so if what you are saying is your real attitude, then not only are you wasting your potential to analize or at least think, but you are wasting town KPs on you when we badly need them to kill mafia. I can undertand that the thread is intimidating, especially when you see people with 6000 posts posting these biblical length posts, but in the end your vote is worth the same yours is, all you have to do is think critically and post what you think. No one is demanding you be right, no one is demanding you post homeric epics that clearly prove who is scum, all I want you to do is use logic, and post what you come up with. Please if you really are town then dont make us sacrifice 4 townies (you + 3 night kills) because you don't want to think, or post your thoughts. Its ok to be wrong, its not ok to not commit. So I'll ask you JBright, what do you think of LD as a lynch? If you had to lynch someone within the next hour and your vote decided it who would die? Is there anyone who you think is certainly town, anyone you think has to be scum? Come on man, the game is no fun if you give up on us. | ||
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@Mods is there any significance to ON's role being in green rather than black (outside of what his alignment is I mean) | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + while I'm wishing for the impossible I also want a complete list of the scum team and 5 free daykills please | ||
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Also chaoser you neglected to consider that perhaps mafia is only allowed to kill up to 3 people per night. ##Unvote Jbright ##Vote LSB | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH: Well I hit a pretty number so I'll stop posting in the thread and move to PMs ^_^ Anyways, what's your take on chaoser and gryffindor? + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: chaoser is an active poster, so even if he is mafia I would let him be for now, as he is likely to slip up later, right now I want to see who is going to be inactive and pressure the hell out of them. gryffindor sets off my scum radar because of his vet claim, especially after I said not to claim, however I just don;t think he would be stupid enough to post that if he were mafia. annul is annoying me due to what I see as his intentional stupidity, which could be a scum tell, coag is being his usual unreadable self, so I may consider proposing him as a lynch target your thoughts? + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH: Chaoser strikes me as a panicking scum, but I could be wrong. Selfish townies like staying alive too. At the very least he's made my list to watch. Gryffindor is either really bad or is playing a game with some sort of intricate plan. I'm looking at the setup though, and I don't see how a mass claim could benefit town within reasonable probability. Honestly, I'm really afraid of annul, since the two games I've played with him he's been godfather XD. And both times he's won. So who knows. If he starts an unreasonable bandwagon though I'm going to push for his lynch. Coag I've learned to ignore. If we really get nothing better at the end of the day though may as well kill him because he really won't be giving us anything In any case, we have a lot of time. We should be able to dig up something better than coag. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: The thing with Chaoser is that he gets targeted day1 almost every game so he takes poorly to it, I'm in a PM circle with him however and he seems like he is pro town at the moment, however I will keep my eye on him. Gryffindor i dont understand, he is top of my scum list ATM, there is no way claiming vet is a good idea, and I honestly don't believe him, mass claims generally don't help town except in really specific setups, so it wouldn't help here Annul I haven't played much with so I'll believe your read of his playstyle when you get one, I actually really respect coag's scum hunting abilities, despite his occasional slip up (Guts and Glory, ugh >.<), so if only for that I'd like to keep him around barring any solid scum reads today I'm going to go for an inactive/lurker lynch however we still have 46 hours or so, so we'll have more to analyze tommorow. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From seRapH: Oh ok. Not too familiar with chaoser, first game with him (I think?). You're in a whole circle with him? Huh. Well I'm sure you know what you're doing. Gryffindor... His votes thus far have been on who? Foolishness and you? He's piling on the scumminess. The only thing he's got going for him is that no one's even trying to defend him. But maybe his scumbuddies just haven't had time to voice themselves. And conversation two on 2/26/11 18:25 + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: So, since you seem to be shy of posting in the thread or something I thought I'd PM you So, what are your thoughts on the current situation? + Show Spoiler + Lol sorry I'm not exactly on top of my game right now There is definitely experience in the mafia. If annul gave up because his team sucked it was not because everyone on his team sucked. Look towards veterans and good players, at least one of them is scum, I wouldn't be surprised if it were someone who's usually much more active too. Who are you thinking about lynching, or are you content with staying back and watching people's reactions for now? I might have to end up trusting your judgement by the end of the day, depending on how sober I am in 48 hours >_> + Show Spoiler + At this point I want to see how people react to pressure, I'm starting to light a fire under the inactives, (i've PMed most of them), and the OMGUS by gryff was really suspicious. Also cube is lurking which is really rare in him, so I would look to him as a potential scum. I can understand being busy on a weekend, (I have exams next week, its going to be glorious -_- ) so no worries, we still have 48 hours to see how things play out So yeah, nothing in there that I see as incriminating, in fact I think it points at seraph being town. Thoughts? | ||
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as a request can you link to a game where town lynched for information and it worked out poorly? I'm not doubting your statement, but I would like to read it for myself. For now I'm going to vote for an inactive/lurking player, I offered him a chance to reform, but I guess it wasn't good enough ##unvote ##Vote: JBright | ||
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like this? | ||
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On March 03 2011 12:16 bumatlarge wrote: Damn, now I feel like a failure lol. Good job town. But if 3 deaths come in the morning with no vigis, I HAVE THE ANSWER!... Care to explain it now in case you die? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=70#1391 | ||
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On March 03 2011 12:28 LSB wrote: If it wasn't for this I'd have you right now Gmarshal + Show Spoiler + Cheating: 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. I'm confused... | ||
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conversation 1 + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: Well Hi there! This is just a friendly PM from a fellow player in Mafia XXXVII, I noticed you aren't posting much so I decided I'd ask what you think of the current situation in the game. Are you getting any scum tells from anyone? Do you have any thought on any of the arguments that have been going on? + Show Spoiler + Original Message From kevconsim: Hello the reason I havent been posting is because i sleep and i go to school so i will be reading the rest of the forum right now and answer your questions after that. Sorry i go to high school 30 mins away from my high school and i have to get up at 5:00 in the morning for practice. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: Its fine ^^ its just that inactivity often ends with the town losing horribly, so I'm making every effort to make people post and think + Show Spoiler + Original Message From kevconsim: Most likely gryffindor is Mafia, vet or (Mad Hatter) because he seems to be trying to Control the conversation and he is not answering a lot of questions he is just trying to deter them. I doubt he will get killed tonight and i think that if he is MH and can get the bombs placed i think it would be good to keep him around I dont know about Coagulation he seems to be hiding in the back more than the other games that i have read. This is also my first time playing Mafia so i am kinda getting used to how to play. Jackal saying that he will post peoples pm makes me not want to trust him. If i had to vote right now i would prolly vote for annul because he is pointing out several people but he is 1)not giving reasons for why people are scum I am pretty sure you are town. I am pretty sure you are blue too but i do not know which one. Thats all so far! + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: Good thoughts, I suggest you post at least some of them in the thread, especially the comment about coag, I think it is insightful. gryffindor's play is hard to read, my only comment on it is that I dont think mafia would play that stupid, although feel free to press him on any of these issues. Good thoughts, I approve, keep it up! if you want to bounce any more ideas of me I'm around Conversation 2 + Show Spoiler + Original Message From kevconsim: Could a tell be voting for yourself to make people think that you dont care if you get voted and by saying incase you forget. I guess i feel like i would never vote for myself ever Ex JBright + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: Its usually just a placeholder vote, mafia usually never vote for themselves, I wouldn't read much into that vote at all, as its standard practice + Show Spoiler + Original Message From kevconsim: ok i guess if you were to do that you would want to do it later in the game. jw who are you going to vote for?so far I am thinking Annul + Show Spoiler + Original message from GMarshal; Sure annul seems like a good vote, right now I'm still mulling over the options, I'm not sure that annul is scum, but it will be interesting to see how he reacts to pressure, that will probably be a tell one way or another + Show Spoiler + Original Message from kevconsim; See we got him. That was my best guess and i was right. Next i think Icemac should go. I am a regular townie so i dont really do anything at night right? + Show Spoiler + Original Message from GMarshal Besides talk and discuss no, you have no special powers at night (or during the day ), this is when people like the Detectives and the Mafia send in what their actions are going to be + Show Spoiler + Original message from kevconsim: Thats what i thought thanks who do you think should go next + Show Spoiler + Original Message from GMarshal To be honest I really don't know, give the night some time to go by, wait till morning to see who dies, take a good look at who voted for who today, most important, THINK, you'll never get anywhere just following peoples advice, so go ahead take a look and form an opinion. A good player to look at would be Lunar Destiny, another good one to look at might be SerApH. When you have an opinion PM me and we can discuss it, and also post it in the thread. Notice the bluefishing and the green claim Again this is in the likehood that a vigi decides to perforate my skull in the name of the town, it should at least give you a decent lynch for tomorrow | ||
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On March 03 2011 13:19 gryffindor wrote: ....................................... AND THIS IS FAIR? You just completely made me believe LSB or Jackal had to be scum because of that, yet you didn't clarify what you were doing before you did it? Half of my posts today have been influenced by that. This is terrible........... No need to get angry about it, people make mistakes sometimes, nothing bad happened, we got scum, so lets just concentrate on getting more scum tommorow, rather than getting pissed off at a mod forgetting to tell us something, shall we? | ||
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On March 04 2011 13:24 kevconsim wrote: Too bad im not mafia! so it will take 3 days for us to win What? Explain this please? Do you happen to know how many mafia are left? | ||
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##unvote LastArgument ##Vote: kevconsim | ||
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On March 05 2011 04:09 LunarDestiny wrote: First of all, Vig who hit LastArgument, please claim. ------- I find it weird that LastArgument is a veteran. What should a veteran do? Absorb hit from mafia. In this game, LastArgument didn't post a lot and lurked like hell. He makes very little effort to take an hit from mafia. I believe that it wasn't mentioned that mafia could have used a KP on him. One might argue that it make no sense for mafia to hit a hugely suspected town. But look at kenpachi's death. Although Kenpachi is less suspected than LastArgument, Kenpachi was still consider as bad target to use KP on. The reason reason for mafia to use KP on LastArgument is that mafia just want to lower the amount of players. Right, but why hit someone who is likely going to be lynched the next day, thus wasting the towns kp? A better target would have been someone like gryffindor or chaoser, who despite having some suspicion on them did not have two huge posts written up on them that are likely to lead to their untimely deaths. Generally mafia KP go after active players who are a threat to them or likely blues, not players who are going to be hung the next day. If mafia did shoot LA then they are obviously high, if a vigi shot him then its in our best interest for him to claim. More likely then not however LA is a panicked scum who is lying, and mafia either reduced their kp by using powers or double stacking on foolishness (or they are just down to two kp) | ||
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So, people what are your thoughts on the topic? If we lynch LA we confirm LSB as town or scum depending on the flip, alternatively we could just ignore that and go after kevinconism/others as our lynch of the day and worry about LSB and LA tomorrow, hoping that a mafia hit would flip one of them for us. | ||
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On March 03 2011 12:48 LSB wrote: Again, I think we should just suggest night 3 actions Medics, please protect Me and Foolishness. Vigs, if you want, you should shoot Barundar. There isn't enough on Gmarshal to justify a kill. DTs, continue checking Priority 3 people Also LSB I call shenanigans if you wanted a vigi to shoot Barundar then you could have done it yourself, why didn't you? You have been calling for that shot for two days now, interesting that you didn't take it. I suspect you aren't a vigi at all but a mafia godfather | ||
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On March 05 2011 07:16 LSB wrote: Um... why would I shoot Barundar if another vig was going to do it? Well, why didn't you just shoot him instead of calling for a vigi to do it? Why did you shoot tonight rather than yesterday night? Do you know for a fact that there is a second vigi that could have overlapped with you, or is that just a guess? | ||
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My only condition is if you want to take me up on this the entire town has to agree to hang you tomorrow | ||
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##unvote ##Vote GMarshal Now town come tomorrow don't let LSB persuade you that "it was all a mistake" and "oh look at this much better target" tomorrow you fucking hang LSB | ||
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##unvote GMarshal ##Vote: LSB | ||
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1. LSB is town 2. LSB is vigi. 3. LSB shot bumatlarge not LA. 4. I am speaking for one of our medics. 5. LSB was hit on the last night cycle. 6. LSB is protecting LA for reasons that none of us in the circle truly understand. 7. LSB believes LA to be town. That is his belief alone. I am not defending LA. 8. Nobody in our circle is defending LA. 9. I cannot name any of the others in our circle without throwing medics and others to the wolves. I will not do that. Do not ask Gryff. I will not answer. 10. I have been in contact with people that were in a circle with Foolishness. !!. Their scum list matches ours on 3 out of 4 names. 1.) right... 2.) ok... 3.) then why the hell did he lie about it? and why bum? EXPLAIN!!! 4.) ok... 5.) and why didn't he claim that this morning, it would have been nice to know? 6.) Then I want an explanation out of him, PM will suffice 7.) LSB believes alot of strange stuff 8.) ok... 9.) fine, I can accept that, I don't know how much of your circle is imaginary though. 10.) really now, that dosn't clear them at all though, being in a circle with someone means very little. 11.) and this list is? this proves nothing to me you provide no evidence, and no backup after LSB playing the way he is i'm not going to just take your word for it jackal sorry. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + GMarshal Hi! Would you like to be the first member of my analysis circle? if so I'll be PMing you with my thoughts and bouncing analysis off you! I hope you can do the same with me. If you *are* scum, I don't care, as this will just give me more to analyze, if you aren't then this will be good for the both of us. So yeah, RoL already warned us these would be necessary so I think we might as well start one, I think you should pick a 3rd member just so we can have the most unbiased analysis possible, if you don't want to pick a 3rd member then we can just go with a two person circle or I can choose. + Show Spoiler + chaoser You choose lol, and yes, lets, same to you. GMarshal So, I'm going to go with darmousseh, on a whim. that good with you? chaoser sure, i'd rather have a newbie in our group though since we're both decent players and I think by inviting a newbie in we prevent them from 1) lurking if they're mafia and 2) makes them feel more "part of the game" and so they'll actually want to play and help town instead of doing stupid shit/not saying anything so that by day 5 when we post analysis they'll come off as horrible red when they're just bored town, I know when I first started I chilled a lot and came off as that GMarshal I already sent him the invite, we can add a newb if you want though, go ahead and pick one randomly and we can incorporate him chaoser I picked icemat. I don't quite understand the cells. Sorry, running on pure coffee right now + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: The cells are just a group of people you bounce ideas off, this encourages more active posting as you feel obliged by more active players asking you questions and bouncing ideas off you. This also leads to people posting more and more stuff to analyze Did you send him a PM btw? chaoser yeah, i told him I was in a group with you GMarhsal ok, thanks chaoser What do you think about annul's mafia count thing? also people need to get off my back, wish this was guts and glory again... Original Message From GMarshal: annul is playing stupid and I would lynch him just on that it is true you seem to always be picked on day 1... sorry? Its a fair assumption to assume 6 mafia in a 30 player game, but it could also be a scum slip, right now I'm unsure, if we did lynch him and he flipped red then I would believe we have a 6 mafia team to deal with chaoser Mr. Wiggle's post is exactly what I was thinking, we don't know the GF set up so it could be that there's 4 players only, or 5 for KP. Usually 6 mafia is standard when the KP is calculated as 3 for 6, 2 for 4, 1 for 2. But this is like some crazy addition thing with GF being 1 KP so the math would be off? 6 is like 1+2.5 so 3.5. I guess it's not that off since that means 3 KP + 1 power. Maybe I'm just too tired ugh. I think I'mm go back to studying and then turn in for the night + Show Spoiler + chaoser While I do like the idea of cells, I think you should back off of it, it's detracting from everything else town needs to do, feel like it's just two town (you and BM) butting heads over an issue you won't agree on. It gives a chance for mafia to seem like they contributing too by just dropping in and commenting. Let's just work on our own circle, it seems some have thought it was a good idea too. At the very least, activity is at an all time high this game lol. I'll post this idea in thread too. GMarshal Ok, I'm done talking about cells then. Lets get scum hunting/poking inactives + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: gryffindor is really aggravating! Anyway I doubt the town is stupid enough to lynch me off his accusations, so I guess its best we consider real targets. Any thoughts on annul? chaoser holy crap i'm busy for a day and the game turns into a shit fest...wtf annul...I'm willing to vote him just cause spam is BAD for the game, especially if it's just two people yelling at each other. At least you and grfy were talking about plans, he's just spamming with LSB...going to make it hard to play endgame when there's like 60 pages to go through...i'll catch up tmr morning, just wrote a 6 page paper in 2 hours. I aced my test btw lol. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: I made a quick topic for our little circle, I still mistrust icemac, so keep an eye on his posts http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/hTug9L8PrCD chaoser Actually I was just about to pm you about that dude. Annul: At present, annul is bad for town whether he's mafia or not...I mean there's not helping town and there's being detrimental to town. Making the thread into a heated mud slinging battle=not very good atmosphere to be catching red in. Promoting discussion is fine, promoting flaming is not. It just lets mafia blend in and take sides and have an easy way of "contributing to discussion". I know he can do better too, it's just a question of why isn't he i guess. I hate policy lynches but if it keeps going this way... I'm willing to have him as a fall back lynch if no one else comes up. Icemat: That being said, icemat is looking pretty scummy to me. He's not saying anything at all, he's saying there's nothing to analysis day 1 so he won't do it, doesn't take a real stance on anything. And then he votes an inactive when clearly we have A LOT to go on? come on now...what's your opinion on him? + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: Annul I don't have a very good read on, he is either an aggressive/stupid townie or just scum. I agree though, he would make a fine fall back lynch, although I think LSB is pushing for him a little too hard. Ice is playing faaaar to aggressive for a new player, its interesting how his PM to me is rather apologetic, which makes me think he is possibly flip flopping scum. Also notice how he didn't post all that much,yet he took annul/gryffindors side so he could have expected to go by kind of unnoticed yet noted as a contributor, also this would keep annul/gryffindor from jumping on him. Right now I have a minor scum read on him, hopefully we can bait out more information. Also anyone who says analysis isn't worth anything day 1 just looks scummy in my eyes thoughts on Jackal? chaoser LSB just doesn't like him lawl lol. They got history. Can i see the PM from ice? Gmarshal Sure "Hey chaoser told me that you me Darm and him are in the same circle or whatever. Just Pm'ing it up to get acquainted. My bad for shitting on your idea earlier. Still not a big fan of it but if it helps us win then so be it. talk to you later." + Show Spoiler + Original Message From GMarshal: Damnit, and I was sure he was town too... alright, thoughts? From the votes I would take a look at LD amongst others. chaoser dude...i don't trust icemac...he's in the group but hasn't said anything. He doesn't do analysis, gives shit reasons for not doing it, I think he's red, two bandwagons formed on him and annul, mafia couldn't do anything and bussed annul while trying to semi trying to see if they could get it off him and onto other targets. what do you think? Original Message From GMarshal: Its possible, but what *really* concerns me is the ridiculous blue sniping that took place, this makes me almost certain that a really good player is on the scum team, also notice how they used up all their KP (I'm assuming 3). The other possibility is those blues were stupid and claimed to someone (if wiggles claimed then it was probably to LSB, IMO), just my general thoughts. icemac we can go after if no better lynches present themselves chaoser if it's a 6 man setup and annul died, it's 5 men, meaning 3 KP. I don't know if RoL is using 1 KP per kill or rounding up system, I just PMed him. If it's rounding up then 2.5 KP can still kill 3 people and they can still frame/cover so if that's the case then i still wouldn't trust DTs, it could even be mafia claiming, and then when the person gets lynched, they can say he got framed... GMarshal I agree, I'm not saying to trust DTs, I'm pointing out that whoever mafia is feels confident enough to not care to use frames/covers that much day 1 Chaoser hey, what are you thoughts on __________? I think we can trust him. Talking to him on skype, if you got skype, get on and we can start a chat, I think we can get somewhere with this (moved onto skype from there on) | ||
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On March 05 2011 07:23 GMarshal wrote: Well, why didn't you just shoot him instead of calling for a vigi to do it? Why did you shoot tonight rather than yesterday night? Do you know for a fact that there is a second vigi that could have overlapped with you, or is that just a guess? you didn't reply to this question with the natural response "I was roleblocked" which would have been a perfectly logical response, instead you dodge the question. Having a difficult time keeping track of your lies? Or is there something im missing? | ||
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Also its nice to see a blue circle formed, seems like we learned nothing of salem. I hope for all your sake's that LSB dosn't flip red or the streets will probably run with blue blood tonight. Lynch LSB because he lied and town has no need of lies. If he flips blue then its his own damn fault, if he wanted to defend LA he should have used logic not lies. | ||
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Like the absolute lack of a bandwagon against chaoser we are seeing right now... oh...wait... | ||
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I'm just going to stand here and think about that for the next 20 minutes or so... That is either an absolutely brilliant Town plan or the most diabolical piece of BS i have been graced with seeing... | ||
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Now if I'm wrong again and choaser flips red well then on my head be it. But I dont think thats going to happen | ||
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On February 10 2011 15:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: 7. darmousseh - Medic, Night 1 . Night 1 you say? assuming the poor sod is still alive though, you have no reason to kill him, you get to "suggest" who he protects, and look that way you don't have to double stack foolishness. or really worry about his protects. | ||
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On March 06 2011 08:20 LSB wrote: So you agree that Jackal/Cogulation/The medic are townies? Sweet. So then why are all these townies supporting me? Well, I think it's because when they got their role Pm, it didn't start with "You are mafia your scumbuddies are Annul/Seraph/Chaoser" You know repetitively saying "you are scum!!!" is a rather poor argument. | ||
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On March 06 2011 08:23 LSB wrote: Why not 100%? Give me one solution. LA is Vet, and I get him to claim that he was hit when he wasn't. Again, you are falling for the bait. Instead of evaluating like a townie with "which one is better if we lose it", you evaluate it like a mafia. Which one is better for us to kill? Which one won't hurt us if he is a confirmed townie. In fact, it still shows because instead of trying to lynch LA. You still try to push me. Ok time to draw a word picture from a town perspective, without knowing you shot someone else and were protected Scenario 1 LSB is Vigi LA is scum LA should have died and didn't , this is near impossible, discard this possibility Scenario 2 LSB is scum LA is vet LSB decides to waste a kp on a minor target to claim vigi, ok its doable, but odd, I guess if the scum team thought LA was a blue or really wanted to confirm LSB, this is a real possibility although unlikely here the best scenario is hang LSB Scenario 3 LSB is vigi LA is vet it makes no sense for LSB to waste his shot on LA but it could happen, if we hang LSB then LA could still be red and lying Scenario 4 LSB is scum LA is scum They are both lying double hang. if we hang LSB we prove nothing Whatever happens hanging LA and having him flip blue dosn't necessarily confirm LSB, although having him flip red confirms LSB as scum as it could still be a scum KP. If we lynch LSB and he flips anything but vigi it tells us nothing about LA. this actualy smacks of an LSB power play. if it were anyone else I would have a hard time believing it TLDR: from a logical town perspective lynching either LA or LSB would not necessarily tell us anything about the other players. This means that anyone who wanted to hang LSB was just as valid as anyone who wanted to hang LA as it gives us different and probably inconclusive information depending on the flip. | ||
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On March 06 2011 09:05 deconduo wrote: So last night the following happened: 1) Mafia hit Foolishness, LA, LSB. LSB shot bumatlarge. LSB was medic protected. LA is vet. 2) Mafia hit Foolishness, LA, bumatlarge. LSB is lying about being vig. LA is vet. 3) Mafia hit Foolishness, bumatlarge. LSB, LA lying. 4) Something I'm missing. If it is situation 1 or 2, why would mafia hit LA? 4.) Mafia hit bumatlarge, foolishness, LA and LSB are lying 5.) mafia hit foolishness, LSB, LSB was medic saved, LSB hit bumatlarge, LA lied at LSB's request so did LSB. | ||
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LSB is most likely scum, lynch him | ||
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On March 06 2011 09:51 deconduo wrote: @LSB, Jackal whoever. I'm up in 6 hours, I need my sleep. You have 10 minutes to convince me to vote for chaoser, otherwise it goes back on LSB. I'm sorry but next time you want to make a big fuckoff play like this, town or mafia, don't do it 4 hours before the deadline. That should be a pretty good hint that its a desperation ploy rather than an actual plan, good plans are planned with time to actually work rather than pulled out of thin air with a few hours left. LSB of all people should be well aware of this | ||
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Sorry guys you know LSB is town 100% yet I know chaoser is town 100%, just by his behavior, gimmics aside. | ||
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yes... yes I would... I think chaoser is a better scumhunter then I am and thus a better resource to leave alive. | ||
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On March 06 2011 10:15 Coagulation wrote: No its not I "THINK" HES TOWN there is no way for me to have blocked a hit for him if he is mafia UNLESS A VIGI SHOT HIM THERE WOULDA BEEN A VIGICLAIM BY NOW. there aint no VIGI CLAIM. H E I S T O W N Or he had his scum buddies shot him to prove his towniness or you ARE JUST LYING But it should be easy to check, if you are the medic you are almost 100% guaranteed to die tonight, I'm willing to put off the LSB lynch if everyone else can agree to not lynch chaoser. I don't see this happening though, and even if we did mafia might not shoot you to make us lynch LSB... | ||
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On March 06 2011 10:18 Coagulation wrote: SCUM CANT TARGET EACH OTHER I PM HOST AND ASK THIS MYSELF AFTER I FOUND OUT I PROT HIM. Is this true mod? (Scum cannot target scum) | ||
GMarshal
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MOVE YOUR VOTES OVER TO ME ##unvote ##Vote: GMarshal | ||
GMarshal
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I dont think chaoser is scum so ##unvote ##vote LSB | ||
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On March 06 2011 10:53 LSB wrote: Translation. Meapak admitted to Coag that LSB was mafia. what? | ||
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/sigh | ||
GMarshal
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##vote ohN Boy am I going to feel silly if LSB ends up being the gf | ||
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The die is cast. f5f5f5f5f5f5f5 for the next 25 minutes or until the f5 key falls off | ||
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I revoke PM privileges from myself for next game. I am now going to go hit myself with the stupid stick | ||
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Still, it got scum and I have a hard time arguing with results. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Original Message From chaoser: what's with the flip flopping on the votes dude, I come back to everyone on LD...wtf. what happened to icemac vote? Original Message From GMarshal: I'm a really indecisive voter! I really don't think icemac is scum, if he is from now on I'll vote for whatever you do anyway it was too late to deter the vote from ice anyway at this point we force LD to post more and can analyze the vote lists Original Message From chaoser: if he is i might start thinking you mafia...don't sheep after foolishness...he comes in and basically everyone goes, ok, ignore our day of talking, we'll follow you. i'mma channel anthoy weiner, representative from new york. VOTE IF YOU THINK HE'S MAFIA! DON'T VOTE IF YOU THINK HE'S NOT! DON'T SAY YOU'RE VOTING CAUSE SOMEONE ELSE SAID TO VOTE LIKE SO! Original Message From GMarshal: I made it pretty clear earlier that i did not think icemac was mafia, and him voting for himself pretty much convinces me of it, but LD voted for himself too to save icemac, at this point Im tempted to do like coag and jump on someone else entirely, but thats going to be a waste chaoser damn...looks like i was wrong =/ | ||
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1.) This isn't the main point but it is an issue. it revolved around false logic and any good townie is going to consider all the possible angles, it would have been much, much better if either someone who wasn't lsb claimed the vigi shot OR there weren't any holes that made lynching one not necessarily prove anything about the other, for example if jackal had claimed the vigi shot I may have well believed it without hesitation. Still before putting out such a risky plan it would have helped if you had considered the angles, specifically that lynching you 100% proved LA either way while the converse was not true. 2.)This is what pisses me the hell off about the plan. It involves lying, any plan that requires a townie to lie is bad by definition. Why? because from this point on no one is going to touch anything LSB says with a ten foot pole, because for all we know lsb is putting up some elaborate plot to catch scum and if our reactions dont match his preconceived notion of what an ideal townie would react like, well then, you are royally fucked. So grats LSB you confirmed yourself and got scum in exchange for making no one able to trust anything you say. I mean next time you say "a dt claimed to me and said RoL is scum" we wont know weather its actually true or some devious plot to see who jumps on the bandwagon vs who doubts your word vs who stands and dances a jig and for that reason people will try to avoid touching it or commenting on it, EVERYONE will be noncommittal about it, because if their reaction isn't what you expect well... then they must be scum, hang them. Lying is bad for town. I can't say it enough, yet some people seem to be unable to grasp it. I mean I had doubts when LSB claimed vigi and stuff but that was out of fear he was a scum lying, trying to confirm himself. Now whether I believe his alignment or not I cannot believe his words. there is a reason for LaL and its not only "scum tend to lie" Was the plan clever? yes, yes it was, it gets applause from me for brilliant theory and decent execution. however I think you are going to find that it was overall detrimental to the town. Have fun with your blue circle, remember that its just like the one in salem that screwed town over, except successful. I congratulate you guys on successfully braking everything this game was supposed to be about, not claiming, avoiding having one single strong leader, having people operating in small independent cells. Everything. I guess this is proof that no one learned anything from salem after all . Also shout out to chaoser for awesome scum play. He certainly fooled me, and while you 'got' him with the bait and switch plan he got you by getting two townies to support him, ensuring you are going to waste at least one lynch, probably two. I think this is going to be my last real contribution, I obviously suck at scumhunting and the town has the game well in hand with their wonderful circle of blues and confirmed townies. /end rant | ||
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##Vote GMarshal | ||
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On March 08 2011 08:58 deconduo wrote: I'm pretty sure gryffindor is town, JBright or LD are two people that people seem to have forgotten about somewhat after day 3. I know there are two votes for LD but there isn't any discussion about it really, just that 'he might be GF' While I'd be less suspicious of JBright over the suicide thing, doesn't mean he's cleared at all. Well JBright is dead, you can feel free to try to kill him again if you please though For now I'm moving my vote to LD, as from my PM history with chaoser he seemed upset when foolishness almost lynched him. Of course with my luck LD will be a vigi or cop or something. ##unovte ##Vote LunarDestiny | ||
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##Unvote ##vote gryffindor I'll just note for the postgame that the LSB, coag circle hasn't actually been confirmed, but the chances of LSB busing 3/5 or 3/6 of his teammates is rather slim, no? | ||
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##unvote ##Vote: ohN | ||
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if you two have not real points to bring up then for the love of god stop spamming going back and forth saying "im town" "no you aren't" helps NO ONE. If you want to do analysis is fine, but I'm tired of spam. stop. | ||
GMarshal
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*sigh* I guess I can't afford to sheep/be inactive. Time to lynch some scum! | ||
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Never give up, never surrender! | ||
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On March 09 2011 13:14 LSB wrote: I think it does save us a lynch though. It does shed some light on GMarshal's day 1 actions. Day 1 GMarshal was pushing pretty hard for the Gryff lynch, and shying away from Seraph and Annul. I said in the thread that I thought gryff was town, albeit annoying, where did I "push" for a gryff lynch? | ||
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my personal dislike for a certain play style =/= me trying to lynch someone | ||
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On March 10 2011 08:17 CubEdIn wrote: Ummm, let's have "the talk" after the night kills. Don't give scum reasons to kill someone or another. This is bad for town, the town gets the maximum benefit from talking as much as possible, I like to consider the night like an extra 24 hours to talk, remember each post is information and the town benefits the most from gaining additional information. Some people disagree with me on this, but I see the night as just another opportunity to keep discussing. Also happy birthday | ||
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##Vote:LunarDestiny I will avenge you coag! | ||
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##Vote Cubedln unless he can provide some compelling arguments to defend himself, I also think I know who the third mafia member is likely to be if there is one (which I assume there is), I need to go back and do some research before I'm willing to post an argument on it though. | ||
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why is scum | ||
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but its not, so I'm just fail-town Insane will be my redemption then! | ||
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Dammit, why do I always survive till the late game? | ||
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Also decon you would make a fine godfather, and why did say he thought you were scum However I don't want to vote yet in case kev is the gf and immediately jumps on the wagon, ending the day with a majority lynch | ||
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On February 10 2011 15:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: [/b]Role List Godfather: Night 1 mafia must choose their Godfather(s). The godfather(s) will then choose what role/alignment they will appear as for rest of the game. If not chosen will be RNG'd. The Godfather is worth 1KP. | ||
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Still its a moot point, one of you two is a GF and I will make sure you hang today | ||
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"So...where do you stand on things? I have been assured that kevconsim is town by Jackal and I believe him. Cubed I am convinced is scum and everyone agrees that you are town as well. That makes the remaining mafia deconduo. Let's do Cubed today and deconduo tomorrow. Does this sound like a good plan?" the thing is, why isn't infallible, and I'm not going to use a dead-mans word's to determine the game. Between the two of you however you seem like a better mafia candidate than kev... but figuring out who the scum team might have chosen as the GF is kind of wifom, so I'm going to go back and look at actual posts | ||
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*sigh* | ||
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Alright decon, why I'm NOT mafia: If I am then I am a moron, I mean I defended every single scum and wasted all my votes, I think I was in 1 or two actual lynches, in all the others my vote was somewhere else, hell I wasn't even on the annul bus (And it was a bus, 3 scum were on it early on). Generally if I'm the GF then I've played it terribly. Hell I defended chaoser to the bitter end, convinced that he was town, if I were scum than that would have been a really stupid move. So yeah, I guess my incompetence as a townie is what proves I'm not scum. Much like you I was utterly flabbergasted that coag would claim to LSB day 1, as a matter of fact until Mepack confirmed it I didn't believe a word of it. And in my defense I did defend icemac and gryff as being townies. As for cases against you and kev its going to have to wait till tomorrow morning, I have a crapton of work left to do, although I'll keep the thread open to see what develops | ||
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##Kill Kevconism ##Kill deconduo Town wins + Show Spoiler + don't I wish Really though I'll think about my vote tonight and get back to you guys before the deadline | ||
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So let me analyze this from a killer's perspective shall I? Lets assume I'm kevoconism and I am the scum GF, now I'm looking at who is left as a viable target and its Why Decon GMarshal now as kev I have this wonderful PM from why sitting in my inbox saying that if I survive the night I'm going to hang decon, and I have nothing from GMarshal except suspicions from earlier in the thread. Why in the 9 hells of bator would I choose to hit why, who THINKS I'M TOWN? that kill makes absolutely no sense from that perspective, instead I would hit GMarshal and have the game in the bag... but notice how I the gullible one survived the night Lets look at it from a deconduo perspective shall we? I am decon the mafia GF and I'm looking at my targets for the night: Why Kevconism GMarshal Now, I could go after GMarshal who I know to be both gullible AND scummy looking, an easy lynch is I can persuade kev, which should not be a challenge. So why would I kill him? Kev would be an ok target but then I have to convince GMarshal that why is scum or why that GM is scum and why has said that GM is probably town, now that would be a challenge, considering why is a pretty decent player who might make good arguments against me. Or I could take out why, who is clearly the best player from those who are still left alive, as insurance I'll even use .5 kp to reverse him first. Then its a simple task of convincing kev that GM is scum because he has defended scum all game long. That was a mistake, you should have hit kev, I was more than willing to believe why as a scum player, however I didn't post it to avoid him targeting me at night For completness sake lets consider it from GMarshal's view point as well. Lets say I am the GF and I'm looking at possible targets for tonight Why Decon kevconism I could go after why who has already told me that he thinks Decon is the GF but that would be eliminating a very useful ally. I could also take out Decon who is my likely lynchee for tomorrow but that would be moronic, or I could take out kevconism who is a useless player who's vote I'm unsure of. There the logical move would be to eradicate kev and count on why following through with his plan. So logically the only person who would kill why at this point in the endgame is you deconduo Which means you are deconduo the Mafia Godfather | ||
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##Vote deconduo Town Victory! | ||
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On March 15 2011 03:42 Jackal58 wrote: I now pronounce you man and wife. Silence foul undead! don't make me break out the holy water and stakes. | ||
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Sorry deconduo, but I've proven that every time I trust my thoughts on posts I end up siding with scum, so until i train my scum sense its down to voting analysis and logic and kill logic says you preformed the kills. | ||
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Assume I am sheeping then. Its irrelevant, i've already proven that my judgment is suspect. every single independent decision I've made this game has sucked, I chose to trust the wrong people, I defended and sided with scum on every occasion. I've proven that I have to leave the big guns to analyze while I limit myself to what I'm good at. | ||
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Satisfy my curiosity, what role are you? | ||
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So yeah I would have no difficulty believing that you bussed, well pretty much anyone, also your "I'm torn" vote with chaoser was pretty interesting, almost as if you knew what he was going to flip and jumped ship ahead of time | ||
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##Vote kevconism something is rotten in the state of Denmark | ||
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On March 15 2011 07:37 kevconsim wrote: i will never play another mafia game again. Your choice and that is a modkillable offense IIRC, hopefully you'll only get a warning damnit, bad kev, don't you recognize a gambit when you see it? decon wants to vote with me so bad he is probably salivating, he is just waiting to make a decent post where he justifies it, and then bam, I have him in the bag, I coudn't just tell you on the off chance you were scum *fumes* ##unvote ##Vote deconduo | ||
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If I do poorly tomorrow I'm blaming the TL Mafia forums as a whole | ||
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Also, in that case the game should have been over at the beginning of this day, you guys made me suffer for an additional 24 hours. I'm going to go pout in a corner now | ||
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Chaoser: Sneakiest Bastard, seriously I was convinced he was town LSB: Most dubious play (bait and switch, really?) Coag: Most reckless play, seriously day 1 claim? Kevoconism and Ser Aspi, best "new" players Foolisness: Most obviously pro town player Gryff/BM: Worst Modkill GMarshal: Most scum defended and most unsuccessful defenses, seriously every person I defended got lynched this game those are just the ones that stick out oh and the winner is The Mods , they got to watch us slaughter each other | ||
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yay? Next time at least pretend that I am a SK or something cool | ||
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On March 15 2011 11:22 kevconsim wrote: u sure? Unless you are a female with a pulse then yes. Otherwise I might reconsider | ||
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I need to cut back on my spam posts | ||
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Seriously though scum played an awesome game, I was impressed @coag http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165414 its mentioned in there somewhere Oh and thanks to Mepack and RoL for hosting, this was really fun | ||
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I want to see the mafia QT too actually. | ||
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