Pick Your Power Mafia 3! - Page 66

On December 11 2010 17:10 Eiii wrote:


holy shit

Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect!

On December 12 2010 11:19 Eiii wrote:
Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :D

I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death, but what I really don't like is this:



Zero response to DC's attacks, just semi-claims to be blue to avoid a lynch. Obviously he takes it back a post later, but I just can't get over how disruptive a move this is.

On December 13 2010 07:40 Eiii wrote:


Yeah, I said that calling ken out as a major target so early was a bad plan because he always played spammy. I stand by that.



They were mostly attacks on your posts-- alright, they got a little personal, I'm sorry about that. But seriously, in one part of that post you outright state that you can't possibly be mafia because you explained your vote-- you admit you didn't have 'good logic' behind the vote, but hey since you offered an explaination then nothing could possibly be wrong. I don't understand this line of thinking at all, and it really put me off at the time.
I don't have any defense to node's call out. Those were two posts where I just attacked you because I really, really didn't like you style of posting. I'll avoid things like that in the future.



Because three posts later, I went back and actually made the effort to understand your post on zeks instead of just tossing it out as another grasping-at-straws analysis post by you. I rethought my position on you-- You were being way too aggressive to be mafia, like I kind of alluded to in my 'too bad to be mafia' post, and once I stopped focusing on your questionable logic at times it looked like you were actually trying to root out mafia. Like I said-- as long as there's *actual* content for you to analyze, I think you'll keep putting out pretty good analysis posts. At the beginning, there wasn't any content and you just kind of attacked people-- *that's* what set me against you at first.


I didn't use even remotely the same logic you did for calling kenpachi out, and you should know it if you've read my posts.


Sure, if you actually throw some content inbetween those two posts they make a lot more sense!

At first, ken was just spamming. Gabe called him out for it. Ken always spams (or he did in salem when he was medic, at least), so it's not really a huge mafia tell in my book (for him, of course).
What really tipped me off was when he semi-claimed blue at the last second when it was clear he was under significant pressure. In salem when he was about to be lynched he just busted out with 'I'M MEDIC' out of nowhere, and got his ass saved. He *was* medic, of course, but I don't have any doubt that he remembered how quickly the town opinion on him turned around in salem once he floated that piece of info. What I saw here was someone really, really afraid of getting lynched who knows that claiming blue has saved him in the past, so he goes for the same tactic again.
That's the reason I voted ken-- I didn't vote because he was spammy, I didn't vote because he posts didn't have any content, I voted because considering his history in salem and that quoted post's reaction to major pressure, I thought he was trying really hard to get out of being lynched.



I really didn't like your posting at first, and that stuck with me even as it got better. I explained my thought process more above.



Darth's post on me focuses on about me focuses on my turnaround on ken as well. I didn't lynch ken becuase his posts were spammy or bad, like both have pointed out I defended ken for being spammy and bad earlier in the game. It's specifically his reaction to pressure that got him my vote-- I don't think defending someone for doing one thing and then later lynching them for a separate thing they've done is a contradiction in the slightest.

On December 14 2010 19:36 Eiii wrote:
This town is just full of drama, isn't it?

Gabe, I'm having something of a love-hate relationship with you, just as you have a love-hate relationship with being useful. Look, you're very suspicious of zeks and zeks is very suspicious of you, but both of you are acting out so badly now that neither really looks any better than the other. There's almost no good that can come of this, but let's go through your post point-by-point:

ONE: Zeks has a reasonable point here. Even if you are completely 100% totally certain that zeks is mafia for whatever reasons, I don't get the feeling that the rest of us feel quite as strongly and you should respect that as long as you don't have the solid reasoning to back up such a claim. Zeks is suspcious and we certainly should be keeping an eye on him, that's for sure-- especially after he just barely missed being lynched day one, but not getting lynched doesn't make him mafia automatically. It makes him very worth looking in to, at least. We'll do that, don't worry. The more you two go back and forth fighting like this the less credible each of you get. This isn't gabe vs zeks, assuming you're aiming for a town win. Zeks is suspicious, we will keep an eye on him. If he continues to act suspicious, he's a prime lynch candidate. That's it. Thanks for bringing it to our attention, you did a good job with that at least.

TWO: Good observation from zeks. Regarding hesmyrr's role, taking the cautious route here isn't a bad thing, but I don't understand what mafia would gain from claiming one-life-down vet. They don't know who the bomb hit-- if hesmyrrs is mafia and the real vet out there knows who took the hit, than all mafia's done here is out one of their members. If mewtwo actually took the hit, then he just knows who to kill when he wants to cut down mafia numbers (which will probably be pretty soon, given the way the game's going so far). Or, the only way this move doesn't hurt mafia is if they know that the bomb was on one of the already-dead townies. But whichever way, mafia has no way of knowing which situation is actually taking place! I'm inclined to say that hesmyrrs is town, but caution never hurt anyone.

THREE: Calling your arguments 'solid' and treehuggers' 'stupid' is a little self-serving, don't you think? Both arguments had decent grounds, prentending that your argument was perfect and his was shit so obviously mafia must have intervened doesn't get us anywhere and shows exactly the kind of bad attitude that makes you look suspicious.

FOUR: This is just another story about how gabe's fantastic arguments and debating skill triumphed over the pathetic jcarl on page twenty, leaving him with only an angry face and blah blah blah. This is pointless and gets us nowhere, please stop this kind of posting.

FIVE: Alright.

SIX: This is a mostly baseless attack from zeks, if I understand correctly.

SEVEN: Zeks uses my change in stance on gabe to show that the whole gabe bandwagon disappeared, when there wasn't really a good reason for the gabe bandwagon to keep going. He got votes early on because of agressive and attention-grabbing posting, then lost those votes as more suspicious people were found. I don't think that's an unreasonable shift. Gabe's response to this is, again, 'I defended every argument against me and am a fantastic debater and am not one of the crying idiots like you.' This is seriously not helpful. Good point about context, though.

EIGHT: zeks, his accusations against you amounted to a couple posts that could be taken as scummy. It wasn't much of a stretch, and there isn't much to be questioned there. Not everyone instantly bought in to gabe's *conclusion*, but his evidence spoke for itself. Gabe, how can you say zeks was never bandwagoned when he was prime candidate to be lynched for the majority of the day? And again with the 'my argument is perfect and no one has yet to stand up to it, so clearly it is entirely correct'...

...anyway, the point is:
Gabriel, you clearly have the ability to strongly influence the town's focus and direction. Please start using this ability to actively hunt for scum or investigate recent events rather than abusing it to win your ego-war with zeks. Zeks is suspicious. Everyone understands that by now. By fighting like this you're hurting your reputation, you're hurting your argument, and you're hurting the town as a whole. Please look at the big picture, and put more effort in to make your posts constructive for the town as a whole instead of just for yourself.

On December 15 2010 07:33 Eiii wrote:
Sorry, I can't stick around for much more than just a vote today-- I've read through the thread, and zeks has yet to do anything to seem less suspicious to me. I think he's our best bet.

On December 17 2010 11:44 Eiii wrote:
I feel the same way as kita-- I'm following along for the time being, but I just don't know what I can contribute -_-. It's worth noting that admitting to poor play doesn't make the posts in question any less poor or scummy or whatever they are. d3 is my lynch target of choice for the time being, but it seems like all of the arguments flying around (from all sides) aren't anything more than "You're spammy! You've been lurking! This post isn't optimally helpful!" I don't know if that's the right track to be on, but it certainly doesn't feel like a helpful discussion to me.
The double lynch doesn't feel like a good idea to me because I don't think we have enough good leads on scum. It's the end of salem all over again, with slightly lower stakes.

On December 17 2010 19:02 Eiii wrote:
I wasn't aware we were in such a situation. :S Double lynch it is!

On December 19 2010 20:00 Eiii wrote:
I've been lurking recently because after reading through the thread each day, I just haven't found myself with any reason to post. You guys gave me a reason this time around, though..

...because today I learned that either I'm miller or node is scum! Given how fragile the current situation is I'm more inclined to believe node is just lying and trying to throw off our double lynch to all but secure a mafia victory. DC's actions recently don't make him look 100% clean, but neither do node's-- plus, I don't think it's totally believable that a dt would be lucky enough to hit mafia twice on his first two tries. :/

On December 20 2010 06:08 Eiii wrote:


yep

On December 01 2010 08:34 Eiii wrote:


Yeah, this whole lynch party is based off of ghrur switching to BB from ken last minute. Between that, PM weirdness, and general unhelpful or odd behavior, I think he's our best choice. Without the ghrur switch, I don't think people would be seeing ken as anything but an annoyance. It's not a great lynch, but it's the best we've got for now.

It seems like this whole thread has either been focusing on DrH's attempts at organization and pleads for roleclaims and the ghrur/ken situation. Both are important and worth discussing, but they've mostly served as huge distractions. The only reason we got ghrur was because our hatter was suspicious and got lucky (afaik)-- neither discussion has really produced anything of value.

On December 01 2010 10:09 Eiii wrote:
If it turns out that ken is actually medic, then he's a huge idiot. Could just have been a last-ditch attempt to save his ass, though. :/

On December 01 2010 10:19 Eiii wrote:
Darth may not have been to active, but his posts were good -_- Now we have to waste even more time/resources dealing with ken however he's to be dealt with.

On December 01 2010 10:25 Eiii wrote:


How confirmed is south? All we have is that he said a DT checked him. Are you saying you have more, or is this just blind (not entirely unjustified) trust?

On December 01 2010 10:29 Eiii wrote:


Either way, it saved you. You claimed medic, so you lived.

On December 01 2010 10:35 Eiii wrote:
DT checking ken is the best idea I guess-- if he turns out to just be a townie then we can pretty safely ignore him for the rest of the game-- he's either chaos or willing to fuck up town to save his own ass. If he's medic, he's an asset all of a sudden, and if he's mafia that's a free kill.

On December 01 2010 10:48 Eiii wrote:


Why are we assuming that if there's another medic ken can't be medic? It might be a reasonable assumption but it's not something to bet a blue on.

Honestly, I don't like how this is playing out. Ken has a clear lead, there's a last-second push to a townie thanks to ken's medic claim and some help from a few others, and now you're advocating that DTs shouldn't check him, because you say that another medic claiming to you proves ken isn't what he say he is.

It's tough to know anything for sure in this game, but if a DT checks ken and he turns up red I'm sure something'll happen.

On December 01 2010 11:32 Eiii wrote:


I might be behind on this or just clueless in general, but I'm more concerned with how DrH can be trusted. I know setting up a circle and doing what he does isn't scummy at all, but if he's the elder (and if he's mafia, he's the elder for sure) then he's put himself in a fantastic position to really fuck town up.

On December 01 2010 11:56 Eiii wrote:
I really like the idea of a mass claim-- but I think it should wait until we have someone who's 99% sure to be town. DrH has only his actions going for him, but he knows that as well as we do. Mass claiming to a mafia would, as far as I can tell, lose the game for us immediately.

On December 01 2010 12:03 Eiii wrote:
Oh, I assumed you meant mass claim to DrH. DrH has said a few times he has 13/30 or 12/30 or however many people claimed to him, but we only have a handful who have actually shown it in PMs or something.

On December 01 2010 16:14 Eiii wrote:



I've claimed to DrH. Can we get all of these people to chime in, though? No one's raised a fuss so it's probably cool, but if there are any lies here they're worth looking into. A big circle like this is really really powerful, but also potentially really really dangerous.