EPTPick Your Power Mafia 2! - Page 57
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On August 30 2010 05:24 Ace wrote: BrownBear United States. August 29 2010 08:54 He's got about 3 hours to post I have posted... or do I need to vote? If so, ##vote: BrownBear And yes, I've been gone. My bad. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
 It's night time | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On August 30 2010 08:47 Radfield wrote: I found this post Jeejee, so I think it's setup properly It seems to take some micro management though, as it only loads the next page once I scroll to the bottom of the page. It doesn't just keep going all the way automatically you can set it to load several pages, i think the default is 1 though usually i just tap my scrollwheel and it keeps on scrolling by itself until i stop it so it loads the whole thread in like 30sec | ||
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SouthRawrea
Canada608 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Brownbear you've got a warning. Next time it's a modkill. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On August 30 2010 06:40 Radfield wrote: The issue I was thinking of, was that if LSB flips town, we still have to decide between chaoser and Southrawrea. BulletBill is useless on chaoser. Chaoser also has a useful town role right now(if he's not the traitor). By having CV on LSB, and BulletBill on SR, my thought was that we could resolve the traitor issue tonight. Then it was pointed out that if SR was the traitor, then there is a good chance he hasn't flipped to red yet, so the BulletBill would be useless. Which is a good point. BUT Does anyone actually think Southrawrea is the traitor? I don't. I think he's either a truthful town, or a mafia trying to screw with us(vengeful player, etc). Him actually being the traitor would be a bit bizarre in fact. My big hope was that we could resolve the traitor issue tonight. I'm not sure if that can happen anymore, so I'm open to other plans. Either a SR or LSB CV hit is fine with me. Hold on a second here. Opz just claimed tracker, OK. I guess he didn't follow the plan after all, that's OK, there are good pro-town reasons he might take tracker instead. Fishball claims he visited Opz, which presumably he did, since Opz tracked him. One question Fishball: Why would you ever, EVER investigate Opz. Of all the people in the game, Opz is absolutely the worst for a pro-town player to BulletBill. Why? Because even if he has a gun, he is the most likely player to be the JOAT. Southrawrea had already admitted not following the plan, so that means Opz is a 50/50 shot at being the Joat. Of any player in the game, his result tells you the least, since if he shows up with a gun, you still have no idea of his alignment(unlike every other player in the game, with the possible exception of Jeejee, the other potential Joat). You either made a very stupid move, or one of two things happened:
You now have two strikes fishball: You picked Bullet Bill in the wrong slot You investigated Opz One more strike and you're out. In fact, we might be playing with a two strikes rule this game  I'd like to hear what other people think.LSB, you still have yet to explain why you were so certain that zeks was the SK. + Show Spoiler [LSB's Defense] + On August 30 2010 03:09 LSB wrote: 1. You know that sounds dumb. I had this conversation with SR and Pandian before. Start here and read down http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141431¤tpage=48#951 2. You know that is dumb too. Why in the would would zeks fake claim role cop? We already told him. If you claim role cop, we're going to kill you. The only reason why he claimed role cop was because he knew he had no other claim. 3. If he had a legitimate reason, he wouldn't have messed up. Okay, so your basic premise is that I am a converted traitor right? (because there was no way I could know this) BulletBill investigating me should take care of that. 1. It's dumb?? That's your defense? How did you KNOW that subversion drafted role cop, and not one of the other three very good mafia roles: CV, PoD, BS. You're acting as if this was a fact, when it was nothing of the sort. I will admit that Sub taking rolecop now seems more likely, but back then it didn't. 2. Zeks claimed rolecop because he didn't realize that it put him in a position of being only scum. Obviously had he realized this, he wouldn't have claimed it and sealed his fate. He just didn't realize. Similarly, if he was the traitor he could have made the same mistake. He had to claim something. He just made the mistake of not claiming the defensive role. Please explain why zeks was NOT the traitor. That is what I don't understand. Also, I think you are the traitor, doesn't matter if you are converted or not. Being traitor means that you could be sure that zeks was not. The only other option was Serial Killer. This is why I suspect you. To put it again: The only way you could KNOW zeks was the SK, was if you were the traitor(hence zeks could not be the traitor and could only be the SK). Because he had a decent chance of being either traitor or SK in my eyes. If I can vote to lynch citizen in Micro Mafia due to the fact I didn't want to deal with him, and hit BC in another game just because I think it was funny, then checking ~Opz~ with the reasons I mentioned on the other page should be more than enough to suffice. You can question all you want, but just let me point out the following since the majority of Town seems not to realize the following about ~Opz~: On August 29 2010 15:27 ~OpZ~ wrote: You've even picked Bullet Bill way early. Why? On August 24 2010 07:49 Ace wrote: 9. ~Opz~ On August 23 2010 11:11 Radfield wrote: #9 50% Joat.........50% Defensive role On August 28 2010 12:18 ~OpZ~ wrote: Hi FIshball!!!!!!!!!!! On August 30 2010 04:36 ~OpZ~ wrote: I was wondering why you visited me last night =/ Talk about a hypocrite. (To those who still don't get it, he is the Tracker) Damn right I have my reasons to investigate him. I've already done too much explaining. Whether you take it or not is not my call. So if Town wants to lynch the BulletBill, I will gladly cast a vote on myself. On August 30 2010 06:40 Radfield wrote: You now have two strikes fishball: You picked Bullet Bill in the wrong slot You investigated Opz One more strike and you're out. One last thing Radfield, and please keep this in mind; Never use a commanding tone on me ever, again. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:15 Radfield wrote: Autopager is awesome. I had to set something on my page down key and walk away for a couple minutes, but I now have all 56 pages in a saved file on my comp, so I can check it out anytime I want. Hooray! I recommend all serious scum hunters do the same Do we have any way to find out Fishball's alignment? Bullet Bill, nope. Role Cop, nope. Tracker, nope. Alignment Cop, maybe. JOAT! Joat, you absolutely must use your check on Fishball. You are the only one that can. Alignment Cop should also check fishball just in case. Once we establish Fishball's alignment, he can do the rest. However, we need to be prepared for the possibility that Fishball's alignment cannot be ascertained. AC might be naive or paranoid, Joat may have already used his check, or one or both may not be in the game. In which case, we may need to lynch Fishball if he doesn't produce results. btw, you were already town in my books opz  What do you make of Fishball checking you and not a different player?Medic check too Radfield...Weak will die, but I want you med prot'd too, so...Sorry... Fishball shouldn't of checked me anyway... -___- But, hey...I didn't follow the plan, neither did he, right? | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
On August 30 2010 09:46 JeeJee wrote: you can set it to load several pages, i think the default is 1 though usually i just tap my scrollwheel and it keeps on scrolling by itself until i stop it so it loads the whole thread in like 30sec Stop posting about that, and post something useful. Off topic, take it to PMs I do appreciate the link though, and the rest of it. But, I think it just adds to you appearing scummy, the off topic discussion. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
Also, why would you track a 50% role cop if you were town anyway? | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
And aren't you supposed to be analyzing shit? Oh, and one more thing Citizen. Fishball checked me, and I came up NOT holding a gun. a.k.a. CONFIRMED TOWN. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 30 2010 19:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: Fishball was 50% role cop eh? And he's BulletBill? Maybe because he's...I dunno...Acting fishy as fuck. Not to mention when I'm in a game with Fishball I always use whatever night action I have on him Night One (seriously, it's like I have a thing for him or something, he attracts me on night one) And aren't you supposed to be analyzing shit? Oh, and one more thing Citizen. Fishball checked me, and I came up NOT holding a gun. a.k.a. CONFIRMED TOWN. Of course it needs to be mentioned that you could still be scum if both you AND fishball are scum. Seems highly highly unlikely though. So unlikely in fact, that it's really not worth discussing. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Basically, the bottom portion is what you need to know. + Show Spoiler + Looking over the original PYP makes me feel bad for all my unintentional spam. I'll try to group stuff more together. Sorry guys Anyway, The Plan for Tonight: For reference, Radfields plan: + Show Spoiler + On August 29 2010 21:26 Radfield wrote: My proposal for tonight: Compvig LSB Bullet Bill(Fishball) check Southrawrea Tracker follow Fishball Medic protect Fishball Once Fishball reveals who he looked at, the Alignment Cop should check that person, as it will help to establish his sanity(at least it will once Fishball becomes confirmed). Fishball you need to reveal your pick as soon as you can, to give the Alignment Cop time to get his night action in. Joat do your own thing, you either protected or investigated last night. If you investigated, you should Talk tonight and let someone know the alignment of who you checked. If you protected last night, you should investigate Fishball tonight, as knowing his alignment is highly beneficial to the town. Again, if you ever find a red you should claim in the thread. If your talking tonight, go with whomever strikes you as most pro-town. Keep in mind that SK is dead, so pro-town means town at this point(as opposed to a SK who is playing pro-town) Chaoser, you should reveal your list the moment someone on it gets NKed Now first and formost a couple of roles will be dedicated to the conclusion of the Traitor crisis. I vouch for Radfield's plan, as noted above and right here. Do we have any way to find out Fishball's alignment? Bullet Bill, nope. Role Cop, nope. Tracker, nope. Alignment Cop, maybe. JOAT! Joat, you absolutely must use your check on Fishball. You are the only one that can. Alignment Cop should also check fishball just in case. Once we establish Fishball's alignment, he can do the rest. However, we need to be prepared for the possibility that Fishball's alignment cannot be ascertained. AC might be naive or paranoid, Joat may have already used his check, or one or both may not be in the game. In which case, we may need to lynch Fishball if he doesn't produce results. Fishball is bulletbill, but we need to confirm him so that we can confirm what he says is true. We know he's not traitor(zeks role checked him), so he is either town or scum. In doing this we can kill two birds with one stone and solve another problem: Finding the Alignment cop's identity. The Joat and the alignment cop should check Fishball. In addition to finding out his alignment(leading to the win-win situation of either town bullet bill or scum) the Alignment Cop will have a sane check to compare his sanity with. But this of course leads to the question: What if there's no alignment cop? This is why I offer an idea to the town: the watcher should also watch Fishball. The watcher is pretty useless anyway and only was useful because Bumatlarge watched the hit target. That is really the only situation the watcher is helpful, and that is very unlikely anyway. I feel this to be more important than that 1/14 chance. Moving on,as long as a certain variable is isolated(I shall explain later) we can find out this answer. How? The watcher should find 3 people visiting Fishball. Me(martyr), the Joat, and the alignment cop. If there are 2 people than there is no alignment cop. In addition, if However, this plan can be fallible if the medic will follow Opz and RNG between Fishball, Radfield, and himself. Then the watcher will not be able to know whether finding 3 people means there is an alignment cop, or that there is none but a medic protected fishball. Any ideas/sides on this? I am unsure as to whether the result of finding whether there is an alignment cop is worth the possible chance of Fishball getting hit. + Show Spoiler + Some notes to keep in mind while considering that 1. The chance there is no mafia roleblocker(no one claimed to be roleblocked last night) 2.Whether we want to reveal to the town(thus mafia as well) that there is/is not an alignment cop. 3. Future plans that will involve the alignment cop. Feel free(and please) comment on that. However, some further thoughts on Radfield's plan in particular. To resolve the traitor situation we need to have Fishball check one of the three possible traitors(SouthRawrea, Chaoser,LSB) and the town has to know that it can be trusted. Fishball could very well lie and say (for example) LSB was carrying a gun when in reality Chaoser was the mafia. Now, that's where we brought in finding Fishball's alliance(via the Joat). But in order to reveal the result of Fishball's alignment, the Joat will have to out himself. Indeed, even the alignment cop will be unsure as to his own sanity until the Joat either claims outright the result in the thread, or waits till the next night and pms him via the use of his "Talk" ability. Radfield, I'm somewhat new here, but I'm trying to think this out logically and I'd like to here your thoughts on whether the Joat should reveal himself, or face the fact we may have to wait for the next night to find out Fishball's alignment(because the Joat can talk to someone revealing results(for example confirmed townie opz)). A way I think of negating the effect of waiting two nights is making it so mafia is unable to contact/recruit the traitor(as long as the mafia has not recruited the first night.) We have tracker track Chaoser, and watcher watch LSB. If the tracker finds Chaoser leading to anyone, or the watcher sees anyone, then we know they were targeted by a mafia action. But I would encourage people to find a new plan as this relies on both that the mafia did not spread out there actions in an attempt to find the traitor night one(aka hit zeks, roleblock someone else.) and that the mafia will not roleblock the watcher. In case your getting lost, right now we are at the situation of deciding how to resolve the traitor situation. In order to do this, we must incorporate two things into any plan: 1.Who the BulletBill(Fishball) should check. 2.Who the CV should hit. These two will give us the info needed to determine whether any of the three are traitor. However, Fishball is the most important part of this. Fishball's alignment is uncertain and his check may not reveal anything if the mafia do not target the person that night. I think the plan should revolve around having the mafia unable to recruit the person this night, rather than finding the traitor tonight(as it will be impossible and I believe dangerous) to know that tonight. Plans should revolve around this idea. Everyone should realize the traitor situation will have to be resolved by night three(next night) as well as finding out the alignment cop's sanity. How will stopping the mafia be caused? I bring you.... The Pandain Plan: Helped by in spirit by the Brotherhood of the SFA. First off, we need to decide who the CV should shoot. The CV will have to shoot anyway, so why not help resolve the traitor situation. LSB dying is prefered because he is Prince of darkness, and if he is town the role is useless, and if he is mafia the role is deadly. So here's what we do: 1. Tracker tracks Chaoser 2. Fishball checks south. 3.Joat/alignment cop checks fishball. Watcher watches Fishball. 4.CV shoots LSB If the mafia tries to recruit chaoser, tracker will find chaoser visiting someone. In addition, if Chaoser had already been recruited, then the tracker will STILL find chaoser visiting someone. If they try to recruit LSB, they will be stupid because LSB will be dead. Figuring out whether South is mafia may be harder to solve. This is because of the aforementioned uncertain alignment of Fishball. In this scenario we will have to wait for night three for the Joat to safely(see:use Talk ability) reveal the results of fishball. But I have a slight variation we should do. Based on the results of Fishball's alignment check. 1. If Joat sees guilty he speaks up and says something. Whatever Fishball claims to have found via his Bulletbill check is questionable and a joat for a mafia will be good.(especially consider the Joat may not even die since he can protect himself the next night. In addition, we have me(martyr) and doctors.) 2. If Joat see's innocent he remains silent. Alignment cop will know of the result outcome and the town will know Fishball's alignment. However, there are some issues that need to be adressed in here: 1.If the Joat is mafia. Wait... #1 Comp Vig #2 Bad Santa #3 Prince of Darkness #4 33/33/33 CV, Bad Santa or PoD #5 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role(Vet, Meth Man, or Bulletproof. 33% chance of each) #6 50% Joat......... 50% Defensive role #7 50% Bullet Bill, 50% Defensive role #8 50% Role Cop, 50% Defensive role #9 50% Joat.........50% Defensive role #10 50% Bullet Bill, 50% Defensive role #11 25% Role Cop, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #12 25% Joat, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #13 25% Bullet Bill, 25% Defensive role, 25% Doctor, 25% role of your choice(not tracker) #14. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other(Alignment Cop, Mason, Martyr, etc.) #15. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other #16. 50% Tracker, 25% doctor, 25% Copy Cat(recommended) or Other #17 50% role cop, 50% other #18 50% Joat, 50% other #19 50% Bullet Bill, 50% other #20 50% tracker, 50% other On August 28 2010 00:58 Radfield wrote: whoops, messed up the list command(always preview!). Should look like this: [list=ordered] [*]rastaban---- Comp Vig [*]Chaoser ---- Bad Santa [*]LSB ---- Prince of Darkness [*]Hesmyrr ---- Vanilla [*]Zeks ---- Role Cop, Defensive role or Copy Cat(??) [*]Southrawrea ---- Traitor ------> Vanilla [*]Subversion --- Picked whatever, Did not follow the plan [*]Fishball [*]Opz ---- Tracker [*]Citizen [*]BrownBear [*]JeeJee [*]DarthThienAn [*]siNiquity [*]Divinek ----- Day Vig [*]Radfield [*]Bill Murray ---- Mason [*]Bumatlarge Watcher [*]Pandain ---- Martyr Everyone who was supposed to pick Joat didn't. Except one person(possibly, he might've not even followed the plan.) Jeejee, the person I most suspect of being mafia. So there you go, if JeeJee is Joat AND not mafia we might have a chance. A 25% chance. JeeJee right now is very important. Let's take a look at something. I think theres no Joat. If there is, I think we need to seriously start thinking about whether he should claim because with a high chance of our bulletbill being stolen, the rolecop taken by sk(and dead), and the current claims of roles and the plan everyone was supposed to follow, there should be a 25% chance of someone having picked Joat. So you know what, Screw that plan. Yeah, fadoodle it. All of our plans tonight revolve around finding out fishball's alignment. If we can't do that, we need a new plan. I'm seriously considering whether we should have JeeJee claim whether he is Joat. In fact, I think we should just ignore this whole traitor situation. Unless someone can resolve this, we have no way of really finding anything. All we have is a confirmed town aligned tracker. Oh my gosh... he might be our most valuable asset if there is no alignment cop(high chance there is none too). I say we use the CV to go scum hunting, and we just try to weed everyone else out. + Show Spoiler + Also, some interesting notes: Opz claims to have followed the plan, and yet did the exact opposite. As in, he was told specifically NOT to pick tracker, yet he did. Yet at the same time he's confirmed townie(according to fishball. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
One last thing Radfield, and please keep this in mind; Never use a commanding tone on me ever, again. Really? C'mon now. I try hard in every game I play to be respectful of other players and acknowledge that this is a game of mafia and that at times people are actively trying to stir shit up. If you are trying to pick a fight with me, I refuse to bite. If you actually felt somewhat offended by my post, I apologize for that, but I fail to see any commanding or arrogant tone in my post. I asked you some questions and stated my opinion on you. If I tried to be cheeky at the end, at least acknowledge it for what it is, and don't take it as an insult. It's like you deliberately cut off this line "In fact, we might be playing with a two strikes rule this game I'd like to hear what other people think." in order to make me look more serious and condescending than I was.Anyways, your basic reasoning for why you chose opz is that a) you thought he was scummy and b) you have a history of doing illogical things for the fun of it. Neither of those really satisfy me, but again, I'd like to hear some other opinions. Talk about a hypocrite. (To those who still don't get it, he is the Tracker) Damn right I have my reasons to investigate him. It seems like you're trying to softball suspicion onto opz. That makes no sense. You yourself investigated him and found him to be town aligned, so why are you trying to paint him in a bad light? And if your trying to give him being the tracker as a reason why you investigated him, that makes no sense. Are you saying you suspected him of not following the draft picks? I've already done too much explaining. I'm not really sure what this means. How can you do "too much" explaining? If you're town you should be doing everything you can to prevent yourself from getting lynched. Honestly, I feel like LSB has done a decent job defending himself, and I'm getting a more and more townie vibe from him. Do you mean this discussion taking up too much of the thread and that we should be moving on to other issues? That's probably true if that's the case. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On August 30 2010 22:46 Radfield wrote: Of course it needs to be mentioned that you could still be scum if both you AND fishball are scum. Seems highly highly unlikely though. So unlikely in fact, that it's really not worth discussing. The one interesting thing in this scenario is you'd have 3 mafia picking sequentially and getting the 7, 8, and 9 spots, and picking role cop (failed), bullet bill and tracker. Pretty unlikely, but who knows. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
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