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On July 05 2010 16:18 Bill Murray wrote:
We are going to claim. This is gonna be cool. Claiming would help us coordinate the blues, would pressure the Godfather, and would just simply be more fun.
We can't have a safehouse for our DT? Who says? With claims we can! If L is a jailkeeper and BC is a DT we can have BC staying on L's couch checkin up on the internet to see if YellowInk is money laundering. We could have a "veteran" claimer roleblocked if we have more than one vet claim! IMAGINE the POSSIBILITIES. Hatter putting bombs on "townies"? np. Veterans claiming Jailkeeper? NP NP. Dreamcatchers claiming when they get a role such as jailkeeper and detective? amazing. P.S. if you're the coroner say you're the traitor and laugh while linking to an article about Christopher Walken dancing on Broadway
Claiming definitely pressures the Godfather through making him claim something he isn't. It would make him lie to exist, or lurk. Either one of them could potentially be dissected as scummy play. By pressuring him, we can kill him, and by killing him, we can eliminate that stupid ass recruitment factor. You have to cut the head off of the snake for it to quit growing in this sense. Roleclaiming in a limited factor, with certain roles still hiding (coroner, for instance), would possibly benefit the town through finding the godfather via a dt being kept alive or through having him make a mistake via the pressure.
Roleclaiming will be more like actually fighting a war, using maelstrom and storm, as opposed to playing Russian Roulette. This is a GAME. It is meant to be FUN. Let's have fun and roleclaim together :p
@youngminii: address this, and give me a way we can create a situation in which we have a 50% chance to lynch the godfather without a method such as this, please, then we'll talk.
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On July 05 2010 18:48 Bill Murray wrote:
that's what i said, ace, thanks for being my yes man here
yes I saw it and was already thinking along those lines too, Good idea imo. I'll read more into it later.
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We don't have much time. Anyone after this point needs to roleclaim in their post.
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On July 05 2010 18:52 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 16:18 Bill Murray wrote:
We are going to claim. This is gonna be cool. Claiming would help us coordinate the blues, would pressure the Godfather, and would just simply be more fun.
We can't have a safehouse for our DT? Who says? With claims we can! If L is a jailkeeper and BC is a DT we can have BC staying on L's couch checkin up on the internet to see if YellowInk is money laundering. We could have a "veteran" claimer roleblocked if we have more than one vet claim! IMAGINE the POSSIBILITIES. Hatter putting bombs on "townies"? np. Veterans claiming Jailkeeper? NP NP. Dreamcatchers claiming when they get a role such as jailkeeper and detective? amazing. P.S. if you're the coroner say you're the traitor and laugh while linking to an article about Christopher Walken dancing on Broadway
Claiming definitely pressures the Godfather through making him claim something he isn't. It would make him lie to exist, or lurk. Either one of them could potentially be dissected as scummy play. By pressuring him, we can kill him, and by killing him, we can eliminate that stupid ass recruitment factor. You have to cut the head off of the snake for it to quit growing in this sense. Roleclaiming in a limited factor, with certain roles still hiding (coroner, for instance), would possibly benefit the town through finding the godfather via a dt being kept alive or through having him make a mistake via the pressure.
Roleclaiming will be more like actually fighting a war, using maelstrom and storm, as opposed to playing Russian Roulette. This is a GAME. It is meant to be FUN. Let's have fun and roleclaim together :p @youngminii: address this, and give me a way we can create a situation in which we have a 50% chance to lynch the godfather without a method such as this, please, then we'll talk.
Well I certainly wouldn't mind if everyone agrees. I'm just of the opinion that role claiming is more effective in lesser numbers.
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OK, the truth..
I really don't know anything. I just have guesses. All my theories could be wrong. Even the message that I could have possibly decoded. I still think the theory of Darth confirming that we have lovers since he admitted that he used the queen of hearts for Juliet is true though.
But still! I'm just a fluffy brown creature.. I just want to be something greater than I really am. It is Day 2, mafia have communication at least in part. It is a time of chaos. We don't have many confirm innocents. People are losing focus on are main objective. We need to kill the Godfather. I would advise everyone to look back on the Day 1 posts. Look for the godfather and focus not on the goons. We must kill the Queen. We must find the source. I know some may argue that we need to treat the symptoms before we can get to the cure. But I tell you we must look for the cure and then the symptoms will cease! Let us set order to this chaos!
It will not be easy. We will have to dig through old posts - something I myself I have not fully done. That is my weakness, I'm not as talented and hard-working as others here. But let my failures not stop you from finding the Godfather. Together we can win! But each of us must use their ability. If you are inactive, how can you contribute? Tell me, please tell me? Oh wait, you can't inform me because you are inactive.. I know that most of us are in a state of confusion. We must get through these dark times, by focusing on what is to come. We have an opportunity today to kill the Godfather! We still have a chance! Let us speak sanely and organize. Let new plans emerge! Blues don't follow the path that the our coroner took. He did not take my advice to stick around.. Listen to my advice blues! Live! Live until the time comes to kill the Godfather! For those of you who have a partner, much more will be expected of you. Make sure you communicate well and come up with plans that no one can ruin.
To the scum, traitors, and the Godfather:
Please, become divided and disorganized. Don't talk to each other. We will see how well that will be for you. Let the scum kill the Godfather. Let the Godfather lynch the traitor. Let the traitor kill both the scum and godfather out of ignorance.
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Alright, there has been a lot of poor thought process in this game, but this one takes the cake. If this were a normal game I would say lynch Bill Murray! But it isn't, so I'm not, read on...
This is what you should be doing if you have a role.
Since with Ace and BC entering the game there has been some renewed discussion, let me add some clarification to the idea of the 'modified Korynne plan'. The strength of Korynne's plan was that you could know who was being roleblocked without having to out the roleblocker. If you select 3 people and make the roleblockers block among them, you're getting the worst of both worlds. You're encouraging overlap between multiple roleblockers, and you're not getting the information of who was blocked. Roleblockers should stick to complete non-disclosure as indicated in the linked post above.
To those who counter my hanging Abenson - I am not interested in hanging him because I think he's a likely recruit. I don't even care about hanging recruits right now! The godfather needs to be targeted first and foremost. The godfather needs to find a way to blend in. If Abenson is getting defended, then clearly his strategy is effective. Tomorrow will be the same - we're going to find someone who hasn't been contributing and hang them.
Now back to our fine Bill Murray. He would be an excellent target for role blocking and mad hatter bomb laying. This is how we deal with people who are fresh recruits - not lynch! Lynches should be targeted at those whom you think are going to hit a godfather candidate and nowhere else until we get confirmation or choose to assume that the godfather is dead.
Also note that just because Bill Murray is an excellent roleblock target doesn't mean that as a roleblocker you should definitely block him. With the state of the game, if I were a roleblocker, I'd probably put 30-60% on blocking him, 40-70% on blocking someone else of my choice. You always want to have some uncertainty in your decisions so that you can maximize your effectiveness since it is, of course, uncertain whether Bill Murray is red and whether there are other blockers besides yourself. Overlapping blocks on a town aligned or traitor BM is a significant loss for the town.
I believe Abenson is still an excellent godfather candidate. Furthermore, if he is town aligned, we get the extra bonus of hanging someone who we won't be able to read should he be recruited in the future. I agree that Abenson would be an unlikely recruit for night 1 or 2, but night 4 or 5 if we're at each other's throats and he's still alive for some reason, he could be an excellent recruit.
Regardless of if you agree with me about Abenson, you should choose your lynch based on who you think is likely to be godfather. While the choice of godfather was random, the players each choose their own play style to match their role.
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I don't think that we should roleclaim just yet because we have more blue roles that we want to protect than jailkeepers. So far the DT's have not been able to do anything, but starting tonight they will be able to gather important information. I would rather have them sit back and investigate for a day or two, as long as possible, before coming out. If one of them dies with a mafia name they can use their death post to inform us. The only thing that I am worried about is that if/when we roleclaim it is very likely that a mafia will announce that he is a DT and player X(townie/blue) is really a mafia. I suppose that is what double lynches are for, but I see no other way around this situation. Anyone who claims DT (esp. if they point fingers at blues) is likely to be a mafia trying to mislead us, because at that point in the game it would be favorable for the mafia to trade with a blue role.
I am not sure that Abenson is likely at all to be the godfather or recruited. It seems too risky to try to balance that close to the edge of lynching for so long. I don't think that the godfather would want to try to recruit someone who is so close to being lynched.
I will place my vote on BM because I think that it is too early to roleclaim, and I have not made up my mind yet on who to lynch. (not an omgus)
I will be back in a few hours to post some more and probably change my vote.
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whoops that was BC not bm that voted for me
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On July 06 2010 01:43 YellowInk wrote:Alright, there has been a lot of poor thought process in this game, but this one takes the cake. If this were a normal game I would say lynch Bill Murray! But it isn't, so I'm not, read on... This is what you should be doing if you have a role.Since with Ace and BC entering the game there has been some renewed discussion, let me add some clarification to the idea of the 'modified Korynne plan'. The strength of Korynne's plan was that you could know who was being roleblocked without having to out the roleblocker. If you select 3 people and make the roleblockers block among them, you're getting the worst of both worlds. You're encouraging overlap between multiple roleblockers, and you're not getting the information of who was blocked. Roleblockers should stick to complete non-disclosure as indicated in the linked post above. To those who counter my hanging Abenson - I am not interested in hanging him because I think he's a likely recruit. I don't even care about hanging recruits right now! The godfather needs to be targeted first and foremost. The godfather needs to find a way to blend in. If Abenson is getting defended, then clearly his strategy is effective. Tomorrow will be the same - we're going to find someone who hasn't been contributing and hang them. Now back to our fine Bill Murray. He would be an excellent target for role blocking and mad hatter bomb laying. This is how we deal with people who are fresh recruits - not lynch! Lynches should be targeted at those whom you think are going to hit a godfather candidate and nowhere else until we get confirmation or choose to assume that the godfather is dead. Also note that just because Bill Murray is an excellent roleblock target doesn't mean that as a roleblocker you should definitely block him. With the state of the game, if I were a roleblocker, I'd probably put 30-60% on blocking him, 40-70% on blocking someone else of my choice. You always want to have some uncertainty in your decisions so that you can maximize your effectiveness since it is, of course, uncertain whether Bill Murray is red and whether there are other blockers besides yourself. Overlapping blocks on a town aligned or traitor BM is a significant loss for the town. I believe Abenson is still an excellent godfather candidate. Furthermore, if he is town aligned, we get the extra bonus of hanging someone who we won't be able to read should he be recruited in the future. I agree that Abenson would be an unlikely recruit for night 1 or 2, but night 4 or 5 if we're at each other's throats and he's still alive for some reason, he could be an excellent recruit. Regardless of if you agree with me about Abenson, you should choose your lynch based on who you think is likely to be godfather. While the choice of godfather was random, the players each choose their own play style to match their role.
roleblock me and plant bombs on me? because i'm encouraging roleclaims? you make me sick.
you are definitely a scum slot this game, or are at least acting like one. "overlapping blocks on a town aligned bm is a significant loss to the town" YA THINK? you're acting like a moron. You've been acting like a moron since your first few posts on day 1.
Lets roleblock the guy who is trying to help the town and provide good ideas
you're so smart yellowink
i wish i could be as smart as you
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Oh BM. lol
DCLXVI did you read my post just before yours? It's unlikely that BM is godfather playing like this - much more likely he's an aggressive goon. If you really think BM is godfather, I'd like to hear your argument.
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I don't think that is likely that BM is GF, I thought he might be the traitor or as you suggested an aggressive goon. However, I don't think his playstyle changed all that much between the days so if he was mafia I would think that he was recruited on day one. I think that it is likely that he or youngminii is the traitor. I would suspect youngminii more because he is adamant about what he says and tries to cut off all conversation about something once he states his opinion. Unfortunately, I agree with him on his positions so far and the traitor wouldn't be so helpful.
BM recently tried to force everyone to roleclaim with the support of only one person
On July 05 2010 18:50 Bill Murray wrote:
ace and i are calling for a roleclaim
On July 05 2010 18:53 Bill Murray wrote:
We don't have much time. Anyone after this point needs to roleclaim in their post.
I cannot be sure that he is just an aggressive player normally, but this sort of play is not beneficial to the town. Trying to get everyone to reveal without the support of at least most of the town could force us into a bad position. Had other players posted their roles then the town might be forced into roleclaiming to protect the few who claimed. Even if he does think his plan is beneficial, it is dangerous to try to force that play especially without support.
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So my point is that I don't have a clear idea on who the GF is, but I have a list of possible traitor/mafia. My vote was on BM till I decided who is most likely GF. At this point I would suspect Divinek more than abenson because divinek is playing a little more active and a little less scummy. Abenson at least seems like he tries to help a bit, whereas Divinek is posting enough to hide well. I don't think that the GF would be as inactive as Abenson, he would post more like Divinek does. Youngminii posted some of divinek's spammy and useless posts earlier, Abenson doesn't even try to spam to seem active.
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Trying to be objective here, this is what I see as pro/cons with the role claim.
This is working on the assumption of 1 of each role, there could be more or less but I will take it as an average.
of the 20 people we have 9 roles (2 anti-town) we also have 4 mason/lovers that may or may not overlap.
if we do role claims we can expect ~11 townies and 7 blue roles when claiming.
PROs - Mafia will be forced to blend and decide what roles to use, will probably need to claim later so as not draw attention to themselves. Will allow us to better direct blue roles
Cons - Blues killed, blues recruited, some characters made useless (veteran and mad hatter to a degree), no way to confirm roles
It is a risky play. If we net the GF first round then it would be worth it, but we don't have that assurance making this a big risk/reward play.
I am a new player, but in this style of game no one has much experience. This makes it difficult because we can't look back and say well roleclaiming day 2 has been successful or failed. This applies to all of our plans. I think the big thing is to decide if a plan is useful or not.
Currently due to the confusion the only real plan that is in use is the 1 mason roleclaim. The reason that worked is only 1 person (the mason) had to be on board for it to work. The issue with plans comes back again to not having a definitive way of deciding if a plan is good or bad. This is equally true of the mafia, which is why it is hard to find scum tells since they don't know if the plan is good for them or not. The GF doesn't know which is better either or which will make him less likely to be caught.
Right now if we lynch 1 tonight and 2 the next 2 nights we have just over 1/3 chances of getting the GF. Now besides that we also have the blues, which means that a lot of the game is up to chance.
If a plan doesn't give us better odds or more information than no plan then it is obviously a bad plan. Looking at the role claim Idea, it hurts the odds, but gives us more information. Since we can't verify that information, I have to think that it isn't worth the cost.
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Another concern of mine is that today's deadline is July 06 11:05, namely five hours from now. In order for this mass role-claim plan to be effective we need to have enough time for ALL people to claim, then organize the mess and confusion to specifically target unclear Townies; thus I propose an alternative: We mass-claim tomorrow immediately after the day begins, and vote for double lynch consecutively for two days. I know effectiveness of mass claim in this setup decreases over time, but I think this provision is necessary since partial claiming by select number of townies right before the day is about to end (followed by recruitable night) is kinda bad. I rather have one investigation off rather than none anyway.
I have to leave at 7:10 so voting for Abenson. My reasoning is that, like some have said, he is confusing Townie and his probability of being godfather is just as equal as anyone else. Since I expect the game to reach critical point on d3 with all the mass claims, I rather take mysterious Joker card out of the deck before that time arrives.
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Mafia objective for tonight:
Try finding the Godfather. The Godfather has two night lives so it is ok to hit him. Also try not to kill the people you think the godfather is trying to recruit... It makes the Godfather sad..
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On July 06 2010 06:25 Hesmyrr wrote:
Another concern of mine is that today's deadline is July 06 11:05, namely five hours from now. In order for this mass role-claim plan to be effective we need to have enough time for ALL people to claim, then organize the mess and confusion to specifically target unclear Townies; thus I propose an alternative: We mass-claim tomorrow immediately after the day begins, and vote for double lynch consecutively for two days. I know effectiveness of mass claim in this setup decreases over time, but I think this provision is necessary since partial claiming by select number of townies right before the day is about to end (followed by recruitable night) is kinda bad. I rather have one investigation off rather than none anyway.
I have to leave at 7:10 so voting for Abenson. My reasoning is that, like some have said, he is confusing Townie and his probability of being godfather is just as equal as anyone else. Since I expect the game to reach critical point on d3 with all the mass claims, I rather take mysterious Joker card out of the deck before that time arrives.
I agree with waiting, though I will leave it up to more experienced minds on if we should role claim tomorrow.
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My hope is that mass claim will hopefully put an end to some confusion since I don't have to worry about "is this guy acting this way because he is scum or blue?"
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Well for now, do you guys want to quickly switch your votes to Divinek? 'Cause I think it'll be a better lynch than Abenson.
Also, if we are doing this roleclaim thing, what do you say we activate Coroner's (if we have one) ability tonight?
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Last post for today: Does coroner ability activate before mafia recruitment and NK? Don't have time to look it over, but if so we can reserve it for n3 to bring some sort of confirmed validity into possibly upcoming conflicting role-claims. If not, I suppose so...
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Wait, it depends on whether you are confident there are no other person to protect since if there turns out to be coroner, we can still jail him as long as there are no higher protection priority. I think in the OP it said that jailing A doesn't prevent A from using his/her ability. Am I correct?
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EPT
