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On June 15 2010 01:16 YellowInk wrote:I'm in, just have a few questions. You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion? Just to be crystal clear, rule #4 is saying that you are not permitted to roleclaim the mason? (Just seems like an odd rule, though I'm sure you have your reasons  ) Also, not clear on the definition of 'breadcrumbing'. Is this to say that you can't hint that you are a mason? Is one still permitted to otherwise encode messages within one's post? Does the Minister of Magic have 3 votes? Are you just not allowed to say you're running for MoM if you're not 18? That is to say attempting to do so is a modkill or just won't be considered when counting votes, thereby revealing that you are not 18 if you came in first or second?
1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
2) #4 = please don't tell the thread you can PM. you can breadcrumb what spell you can use, the color of your hair, WHATEVER. just don't tell people youre a mason. you can say "i'm fred weasley" even, just don't say who george is.
3) the minister of magic having 3 votes will be discussed between flamewheel and i. probably.
4) if you are running for MoM, are not 18, i will be forced to modkill you. if you have any questions about this you may pm me. the reason being is that if you did that you could sort of prove something "im running, i'm not 18, i'm one of these:"
anything else?
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I'm dumb. Which characters are over 18?
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YellowInk wrote:
You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Bill Murray wrote:
1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
anything else?
My mafia experience is limited, but every game with a complete specific character list I have seen played (I've played in two) was a devastating victory for town. At some point in the game there is mass role claiming. Assuming all townies are truthful and mafia lying, that immediately brings the number of suspicious people down to #mafia x2. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a game like this balanced, but it takes a lot away from the game when, for instance here, there's only 10 people worth scouring for mafia and you effectively have 15 confirmed townies.
To offset this, when there are characters in a given game, one common solution is to give the mafia a 'safe list' of what they can role claim without worry of being contested. There's still the problem here where say a player claims Ron Weasly and goes uncontested, they are nearly a confirmed townie because that role was almost certainly included in the game design. A crafty mod could leave one or two of these out just for the mafia's benefit though. To follow through on this with what you've already posted as well as preserve some integrity of mafia role claims, you could just list 25 town aligned roles and have 5 that just don't get assigned to town (and given to mafia as their safe list).
I'm sure there are other ways to balance this as well. I just see complete uncontested character lists given at the start of game as a huge town advantage. Just my thoughts on the matter.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 04:11 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +
YellowInk wrote:
You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Bill Murray wrote:
1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
anything else?
My mafia experience is limited, but every game with a complete specific character list I have seen played (I've played in two) was a devastating victory for town. At some point in the game there is mass role claiming. Assuming all townies are truthful and mafia lying, that immediately brings the number of suspicious people down to #mafia x2. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a game like this balanced, but it takes a lot away from the game when, for instance here, there's only 10 people worth scouring for mafia and you effectively have 15 confirmed townies. To offset this, when there are characters in a given game, one common solution is to give the mafia a 'safe list' of what they can role claim without worry of being contested. There's still the problem here where say a player claims Ron Weasly and goes uncontested, they are nearly a confirmed townie because that role was almost certainly included in the game design. A crafty mod could leave one or two of these out just for the mafia's benefit though. To follow through on this with what you've already posted as well as preserve some integrity of mafia role claims, you could just list 25 town aligned roles and have 5 that just don't get assigned to town (and given to mafia as their safe list). I'm sure there are other ways to balance this as well. I just see complete uncontested character lists given at the start of game as a huge town advantage. Just my thoughts on the matter.
1. I am the mod. My word is law. I reserve the right to change any rules for game-breaking
I will not be accepting name claims to occur in this game unless I am sure it will be balanced or your role PM specifically states otherwise. You may spell claim, or claim whatever nonsense you want, but try not to break the game.
"Not Slytherin,eh?" said the small voice. "Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it's all here in your head, and Slytherin will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that--- no?
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On June 15 2010 04:11 Roffles wrote:
I'm dumb. Which characters are over 18?
People I will allow to run for MoM:
Town:
Harry Potter
Ron Weasley
Hermione Granger
Fred Weasley
George Weasley
Ginny Weasley
Rubeus Hagrid
Bill Weasley
Arthur Weasley
Molly Weasley
Narcissa Malfoy
Severus Snape
Draco Malfoy
Neville Longbottom
Professor McGonagall
Madame Pomfrey
Mad Eye Moody
Remus Lupin
Nymphadora Tonks
Luna Lovegood
Death Eaters:
Voldemort
Lucius Malfoy
Bellatrix Lestrange
Peter Pettigrew
Nagini
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Your naming scheme is inconsistent (not that it matters). xP
Ex. Professor McGonagall vs. Severus Snape vs Mad Eye Moody
I wonder how old Nagini is...
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On June 15 2010 05:09 Bill Murray wrote:+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On June 15 2010 04:11 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +
YellowInk wrote:
You stated at the start that the list of roles was "neither limited by nor restricted to" the list given, though you put up precisely 20 town roles. Will you be giving the mafia a list of "safe" (non-contested) roles that they can claim? For balance sake will the actual list of town roles be sufficiently branched off from the posted list that roleclaiming outside the given list does not draw undue suspicion?
Bill Murray wrote:
1) I mean to say that if we get 20 people as opposed to 25 I will make it 16 vs 4
anything else?
My mafia experience is limited, but every game with a complete specific character list I have seen played (I've played in two) was a devastating victory for town. At some point in the game there is mass role claiming. Assuming all townies are truthful and mafia lying, that immediately brings the number of suspicious people down to #mafia x2. I'm not saying it's impossible to have a game like this balanced, but it takes a lot away from the game when, for instance here, there's only 10 people worth scouring for mafia and you effectively have 15 confirmed townies. To offset this, when there are characters in a given game, one common solution is to give the mafia a 'safe list' of what they can role claim without worry of being contested. There's still the problem here where say a player claims Ron Weasly and goes uncontested, they are nearly a confirmed townie because that role was almost certainly included in the game design. A crafty mod could leave one or two of these out just for the mafia's benefit though. To follow through on this with what you've already posted as well as preserve some integrity of mafia role claims, you could just list 25 town aligned roles and have 5 that just don't get assigned to town (and given to mafia as their safe list). I'm sure there are other ways to balance this as well. I just see complete uncontested character lists given at the start of game as a huge town advantage. Just my thoughts on the matter. ^ YellowInk1. I am the mod. My word is law. I reserve the right to change any rules for game-breaking I will not be accepting name claims to occur in this game unless I am sure it will be balanced or your role PM specifically states otherwise. You may spell claim, or claim whatever nonsense you want, but try not to break the game. "Not Slytherin,eh?" said the small voice. "Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it's all here in your head, and Slytherin will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that--- no?
Not trying to be argumentative or anything, just trying to make sure I understand the game well enough while ensuring the game doesn't get broken during the run.
So if there's a rule against name claiming, how do we draw the line on breadcrumbing information about ourselves or others? As you have stated we can talk about our spells. Clearly we can claim that we are 18+ (verifiable by modkill if false), so it seems reasonable that we can claim we are under 18. Is the line drawn here and we cannot claim anything else about our roles? Can we claim house alliance? Gender? Hair color? Whether we can talk to snakes? Our true feelings for Hermione? The more we're able to talk about, the closer we get to role claiming in the first place.
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Yeah it seems quite a bit iffy. And something like Harry Potter is a lot easier to do with gender/hair colour/eye colour/house etc. compared to RoTK where everyone is male and has black hair brown eyes and iffy on which side they are on. xP
Note how role claiming basically broke RoTK though, so maybe like someone (YellowInk?) suggested, giving mafia a list of all names used in the player list would work out best?
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i'm just wanting people to be reasonable. i feel like you're old enough to make decisions for yourself.
you will in all likelihood have people to pm... you aren't going to be able to pm everyone, but you won't be left in the dark.
I am not done finalizing the setup for this game honestly. I would really like to speak with someone like Qatol or Flamewheel to help me balance this to where mafia have as good of a chance to win.
The truth is a beautiful and terrible thing, and therefore should be treated with great caution
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Even just considering that if you draw the line at what has already been explicitly stated that we are allowed to claim (age and spells) and allow no other claiming, it would be difficult to moderate where players might choose to 'roleplay' the roles they are given in some fashion. Furthermore, just the information we have is enough that the game could be opened with "everyone claim whether you are able to be put up for ministry of magic or not". This alone gives the town an endgame advantage when all the 18+ or <18 get accounted for.
This sort of problem is common in any theme game. This is why I suggested giving the mafia a safe list since it is the simplest way for them to not just get immediately outed by mass role claims in any way, shape, or form. There are other ways to mitigate mass role claim effects (and I actually have a game design written up to see how effective it is), but it gets really hard to keep balanced.
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I would think to balance it out, nameclaiming in the thread would = modkill. Spellclaiming or alignment claiming could be cool, though. Are PMs allowed?
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if you, in your pm, get the names of players that you can pm, yes; however, if you do not, then don't.
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On June 15 2010 06:01 BrownBear wrote:
I would think to balance it out, nameclaiming in the thread would = modkill.
Another flaw with any attempt to moderate whether you can explicitly name claim is that it can be unfair to deny a claim that you are a given name. For instance, can I say, "I am NOT Ron Weasly?" This gets to be a really slippery slope. If I can only deny claims made against me, I could just ask everyone to throw claims at me until they hit me, etc, an obvious breach of the spirit of the rules. Even if it weren't so blatant, it's clearly going in a direction that you do not intend. If we can't say, "I am NOT Ron Weasly," then suppose a player says I am either Ron Weasly or mafia (perhaps based on my list of abilities). It gets very messy as to how I can go about defending myself without saying whether or not I am Ron Weasly while still trying to show myself to be non-mafia.
tl;dr it's really hard to moderate this kind of thing when accusations start getting thrown around.
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^^ Also, a moderator's job should be simple, clean, and easy to perform reducing the chance for any error in game. That's why I'm looking to 'break' the game before it begins.
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if someone tries that i will modkill them or replace them
can we move onto something else?
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As it looks like the Battle Royale is not going to happen just now, may I sign up here ? :o
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On June 15 2010 07:14 ElyAs wrote:
As it looks like the Battle Royale is not going to happen just now, may I sign up here ? :o
I think you can sign in at multiple games so it won't matter at all.
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This sounds amazing, I'd love to play!
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EPT
