TL Mafia XXVI
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On May 30 2010 15:16 fIamewheel91 wrote: YellowInk I've signed you up, but you still need more stuff for your quote and public profile... essentially you just repeat your name three times. Updated. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
As already noted, there was a splash of hot ink and my name is YellowInk. Let me assure you all that I'm definitely pro town. Of course this only bears the weight of my word at this moment, but it should become clear in the coming days. I don't begrudge anyone for having me on their starting lists as potential red. I see that detectives can determine if clue X points at player Y an unlimited number of times, so a DT could check that if it becomes necessary in the future. Since I'm quite sure that this hot ink doesn't point towards me, such a check cleans me - even better than a role check since the godfather role masks roles. That being said, I'm wary of the application of clues. Use them as evidence. Use them to pressure people into talking. Use them to make a list that you can come back to in the future. They won't prove anything on their own without a DT check though. Lets get to work with the profile digging. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
I have something that puts me a solid head above any other - and any townie that is considering running for mayor should give this serious thought before putting their name up in competition. I can be cleaned while in office. That there was a clear and obvious 'hot ink' clue puts me in a unique position to show that I am aligned with the town. Since I am sure I am town, I know the clue does not point to me and a clue check here will turn up negative. If I were mafia I could not be so confident - and continuing to draw attention to this fact would get me lynched as soon as the DT got around to checking it. One of the worst things that can happen to town on day 1 is to have a mafia mayor that we have no way to investigate. I welcome a DT to go ahead and clean me on night 1, but that choice is of course up to the DT. I'd rather be investigating potential mafia, but there is value to be gained in knowing you can trust me completely as well. So vote YellowInk for mayor. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:03 littlechava wrote: I think so. If YellowInk was mayor then it would be impossible for a rolecheck. Right. And I could also be voted for a lynching. The mayor is immune to hits and rolechecks. The mayor is not immune to clue checks which is why I am able to be cleaned. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:06 zeks wrote: Even if the clue turns negative you're not clear at ALL. You said it yourself that it was a clear and obvious clue...its Day 1. I think we all should know better than to base all our suspicions on clues only. Besides I think that clue is way too obvious to be you. I'd advise the DTs to actually start role-checking right away. You only have 3 role checks so use them as quick as possible (and as wisely as possible). Also mafia has a killing power of 3 so use your role checks before you get picked off. Also you can't use rolechecks on consecutive days either. Once the DT has clearly identified the role of someone then they can start an inner circle and start from there. The only risk this strategy runs into is if they somehow check the Godfather...but thats a risk I'm willing to take since its 1/30 chance you somehow role-check the GF Have you looked at my profile? There's nothing else in the entire opening flavor even close to linking to me, so if there's a clue pointing my way, it's the hot ink. If I were mafia, putting myself up like this would probably get me hung on day 2 or 3. Contrast this to anyone else who could run for mayor. There would be no way to even get close to cleaning them. If a mafia ends up winning this election, immune to rolechecks and no way to even try to investigate them, it can be absolutely devastating. Also, the DT can't use rolecheck 3 days in a row, but they can rolecheck consecutive nights. Your misquote of the rules makes me suspicious as to whether this was intentionally misleading or simply an error. I surely hope the real DTs read their roles carefully. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:06 MooCow wrote: I see, this is my first time playing, so it would be really important to get a DT or someone to check the potential mayor candidates before we vote them in right? If the DT's find anything can it be told to the public or is it private information? Looking at everything so far Zeks seems like a potential mafia and there's too little info for Yellowink. DT actions are night moves like most actions in mafia. The DT PMs the mod with the action and th mod PMs back with the results. The DT could announce results in the thread (roleclaiming DT) but if people don't believe him, there's no way you can prove it directly. Mafia close to hanging will sometimes roleclaim DT and point at someone else for a hanging, making things a muddy mess since a real DT would commonly claim before dying as well. Then it's a matter of sifting the truth from the lies. I strongly recommend all town blue roles to keep it secret for as long as you can. If mafia knows you're DT, for instance, the mafia will probably kill you the following night. There was a comment made earlier that a DT can build an 'inner circle' of people they trust - since they can rolecheck people and find them to be town they can spread their information to these townies. The only hitch to this is that if the DT investigates the godfather they'll find something townie aligned, so they could end up with a traitor in their midst. I highly advise any DTs to read up on mafia strategy in playing this role. It's probably the most important blue role we have and requires a good deal of finesse. I'd advise the same for everyone (esp other blue roles), but DTs are probably the most complicated of the bunch. It's also worth noting that once I'm cleaned by a DT as mayor, it would allow you to include me in your circle. Since as mayor I would be nearly immune to hits (at least so long as a bodyguard is still alive), it would ensure the information can be safely kept secret without risk of being taken to the grave. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:27 onihunter wrote: I don't exactly see how you putting yourself up like this would get you hung if you were Mafia but maybe i'm just stupid lolol. We could cluecheck the ink without having you as mayor mirite? At this point voting for you is a gamble that I'm not sure I'm willing to take. And, a lot of the other clues have very few candidates as well; you aren't exactly unique in this regard. The difference between me and others is that many of them are less clear and overlap. I would be willing to bet that we could try to put together a comprehensive list of how all the clues possibly attach to any of the profiles and there would be at least one mafia who we missed in that list. If someone has multiple clues that could possibly point to them, they're a poor candidate for mayor since it would take several days to clean them. Because I have a singular clue, it puts me in the position to be cleaned efficiently. Yes, if I am not elected to mayor, I'm sure a DT will still check my clue out and find that I am town. In this case I will be supportive in any way that I can. The point of electing me to mayor is that I can be efficiently cleaned in office where others can not. You will always have to wonder if the mayor is red. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:35 DarthThienAn wrote: On another note, I'm running for Mayor (/Pardoner I guess). Personally, I think being active, keeping up with the thread, and actually spending time analyzing players is the most important part of the game. And that's what I plan on doing, which is why you should vote for me ^^. A mayor that goes missing is NOT cool. To whoever asked the question about Day 1 Lynch - "Mayor You won the election! You have to PM me before the end of Day 1 with the name of the player you would like lynched on Day 1 if you win. You can't choose the Pardoner as the Day 1 lynch victim. Your votes count as three votes instead of one. You cannot be Role Checked by a DT." so no, no votes toward day 1 lynch. I will match this, of course. :D I have a love of games. You won't see me disappearing either. I have to say that I am glad to see so many people enthusiastic in here. It's good to see a lively start. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:29 DarthThienAn wrote: I mean, to be fair, all your profile is is you repeating YellowInk over and over. So if the mods were to make a clue, it would be related to... well, YellowInk, not something like swimming or whatever. Until you prove what else the printer explosion could be pointing to, you're definitely suspicious as mafia. Why would we elect you as mayor, if you're suspected to be mafia? ... "If I were mafia, putting myself up like this would probably get me hung on day 2 or 3." Maybe that's what you want. Trade a mafia for a cop and take the mayor spot/protection away? If I were red, a smart cop would not make such a 1 for 1 trade. They would build up their circle first. This is also why they might look elsewhere rather than clean me right away. They would probably rolecheck someone night 1, then maybe clue check me on night 2 or 3 and then either pass on the info to their people, or if they found other mafia, roleclaim and name multiple reds in a single blow. Also, if I were red, I would be much more likely to survive longer if I had deflected or otherwise laid low (though not too low - contributing to discussion appropriately). This would keep the mafia KP higher for longer. By putting myself up for mayor I'm much more likely to get investigated by one or more of the DTs in the early game. And since I am pro town, they'll then be able to trust me with all of the knowledge they dig up and we'll be able to plan from there. They won't be able to do this with other mayors - unless they just trust and hope for the best. This is why I make an excellent mayoral candidate. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 13:55 MTF wrote: I have a problem with this logic being used as your selling point. Primarily because it is operating under several assumptions: 1. There are clues in the opening post. 2. That specific (and too obvious) clue would have to point to you. 3. No other (more vague) clues could. That said, you seem alright so far. Just saying that the logic behind this particular point doesn't flesh out well. MTF, you have helped lay out the assumptions pretty clearly. It's true that I am making these assumptions. It's also true that nothing will be 100% certain. However, if I were red, I would be petrified of having the hot ink clue linked to me. Since I know I'm town, I know this clue isn't linked to me and I will come up clear. This is why I'm able to be so aggressive about it with confidence. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 14:07 DarthThienAn wrote: Personally, I think a cop would just straight up role check you, or someone else linked to clues. No reason to "save" your rolechecks, since you might die at any point, unless you have a very strong cluecheck. And I mean, the whole, "if you were red" part proves my point doesn't it o.O. A cop would be forced to out you at some point and in the process out themselves. Mafia WANT the 1 for 1 trade, even if it potentially cuts back their kp, it keeps the rest of the crew alive longer. From what I've read of your posting style so far, Darth, I think you're town. However this last post makes me wonder a bit. I just pointed out how if I get elected mayor and I am red, the cop will *not* need to 1 for 1 trade with me as you indicated. The cop will still get probably at least 2 red kills or have an otherwise effective inner circle. I'm not sure what else I can add to the argument, I'd just suggest you give the DT's strategy in such a position a little more thought. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
Remember that the mafia talk to each other and are able to work as a team from the get go. They're able to instill some subtle groupthink if you're not careful. Always remember who is talking as you read and keep your thought process malleable to figure out why people might be saying what they do. I know I'm town. None of you do - yet. I propose that my position with respect to having the single clear clue pointed at me puts me in a good place to be mayor because it means you'll never have to wonder if I'm red. If I am red, I will be outed, and my position as mayor will not protect me from that. With others, the office would serve to conceal that they are scum. With that, I'm off for a bit since it seems many of the players are heading to bed (as I should be as well). Vote YellowInk for Mayor! (: | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 20:55 crate wrote: lots of stuff+ Show Spoiler + @Flamewheel: By the way (I mentioned this to you before), roleblocker is still in the role descriptions but not listed in the player list post. Are there roleblockers in this game? --- Good morning gentlemen (and ladies?). I've looked through the thread by now. I see lots of discussion of clues. That's cool. Keep that information in mind and look for themes and connections to later clues, because that's the only way you'd catch mafia off of the clues. There's history for this, go read up on any game with clues you like. I was in this game and we failed miserably on clues trying to get mafia (of course, when half of the clue discussion is coming from the mafia in that game, it's not too hard to see why). I see three people have announced they're running for office. They're good people to keep an eye on, sure, but they're also willingly throwing themselves in the spotlight so they're under pressure. What I don't see is much discussion of what we, the town, should be doing. The only serious heat right now is on YellowInk (and that from clues, so I'm not buying it). There's been almost no talk about any game strategy at all. Some quick notes about blue roles: Medic saves and veteran hits will be told to all involved parties (well, not whoever did the hitting, but they'll know the hit was blocked when the day post doesn't have the target dead). If you get medic protected, congratulations--you've just 100% confirmed for yourself that someone is town-aligned. Medic, if you protect someone, let them know it was you who saved them. It's possible that a mafia could try to play the medic in this situation, but there are dangers for them: firstly, if it was a veteran night life instead of a medic save, the mafia claiming medic is immediately outed. Secondly, the person who was saved will get two PMs (assuming the actual medic does his job) from people claiming to have saved him. We then just lynch the people who PM'd the saved person. If we get the mafioso, great, we're done and the other guy is legit and confirmed. If we get the medic, tough luck, but we snag a red the next day. If you take a hit, either from medic protection OR from being a veteran and living, speak up. The mafia knows they hit you anyway, so you're not giving them any information. Telling the town is good. Don't tell the town how you were protected, just say "I took a hit last night." I'm not sure how we should capitalize on a medic save, because I've not thought about it much. I'll mull it over today, and you should think about it too. But to be honest medics are a really tough role to play and medic saves are pretty rare (the only one in Pyrry's game was after the result was essentially decided), so don't count on this situation arising. But we definitely want to be able to take advantage of it if it happens. --- You may have noticed that I didn't mention Vigilante hits above (this is relevant to the medic discussion; it's theoretically possible for a medic to block a Vigi hit aimed at a mafioso). Vigis shouldn't be too trigger-happy, and I think it's in our (the town's) best interest to give them advice on whom and when to hit. This gives us the same information that voting does (though without the modkill penalty for abstaining), and lynches are the town's biggest asset. Making a vigi hit into a lynch is good if the town is active enough. If we go this route, medics should obviously not protect the vigi target, and this neatly prevents the chances of a medic blocking a vigi hit on a mafioso. It doesn't prevent a medic from blocking a mafia hit on a mafioso, but generally speaking mafia aiming at themselves is a good thing for the town because some of those hits are going to land and the town will celebrate the red bodies --- There's other stuff to discuss too (and more roles I haven't talked about. I'll give some input later on if needed, but this has taken me long enough to write for now so I'm cutting off here). The election would be great, but the candidates need to say more. I don't believe for a second that the ink death is a clue pointing at YellowInk because it's too obvious like our resident clue expert MTF said. --- I saw my name on a possible-linked-to-clues list. The quote of issue is from Feynman and I like it because we attach special significance to certain arbitrary sequences of letters and numbers (like 5000, for instance. Why is 5000 more notable than, say, 5023? It isn't, really) and the quote encapsulates that quite nicely (as well as talking about probability like Darth mentioned). That said, license plates definitely belong on cars, but there were car clues in Pyrry's game, which I was in, and I was a medic there. When/if I start acting like a mafioso then you should push for my lynch. --- This post is enough of a clusterfuck already, so I think I'll cut off here. I want to hear more from all the mayor candidates, especially zeks who announced his candidacy then zonked out for the night. The biggest thing I wanted to point out here is - medics: do not out yourselves to mafia! Crate states that if you protect someone from a hit you've got a 100% townie on your hands, but this is not the case! He later mentions offhand that a medic could block a hit on a mafia, but doesn't clarify that this flaws his original argument. I don't know if this is just flawed presentation on Crate's part or if it's scum, but if you have a blue role, do your homework and think up all the ways that the powers could play out on your own. That being said, there may come a time where it's worth risking outing yourself to a target you protected just because the reward is worth the risk. You must also keep in mind that just because you tell them that you protected them, they may not necessarily believe you. Yes, there's a big risk for mafia claiming to do so, but again, that risk could be worth the potential gain they'd get if they convinced you. That's what this game is all about. Be wary of advice given in this thread (or via PM if you've got people talking in your ear). Keep in mind that each player is working towards their own goals. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 03 2010 22:17 zeks wrote: mayoral campaign post+ Show Spoiler + Hi Town, I’m running for office! I’ve played mafia a couple of times on TL, 2 years ago and just getting back into it. I’ve been chosen town for all of the times I’ve played – actually for those who remember I always got medic. I will be extremely active for this game thus I would love to have a “role” and be involved in the major conversations of this game. I acknowledge the fact that people have drawn clues to me – and that my misreading on the DT role makes me somewhat suspicious. I implore you that everything I do is for the greater benefit of the town. PRELIMINARY PLAN: The plan that I have is pretty much a rip-off of plans used in past mafia games. With all the finger-pointing going on already, I want to stress that we shouldn’t look too deep into day 1 clues. It provides us with leads and brings people into the spotlight, but what is happening now is that we’re having animosity and confusion in the town. We need trust. Detectives: Now that I’ve understood that you can use consecutive role checks, I still think you should use them as quickly (or wisely) as possible. In fact, all our DTs should be role checking someone tonight. Assuming we have 2 DTs: Detective #1 (if you’re numbered somewhere between #1 - #15): do a role-check on someone from #1-#15 Detective #2 (if you’re numbered somewhere between #16-#30): do a role-check on someone from #16-#30 If you check a red, awesome! Keep that in your list, and if he posts keep track of his behavior as well. If you check a green/blue, you can make the decision whether to start the inner circle with that person. The reason I say that is the green/blue could be the Miller or the Godfather – assuming 2 millers and 1 Godfather, there is a small chance you could be checking one of them. Again, track that person’s behavior and see if there are any strong clues pointing to them…then you can decide whether to engage that person or not to start the inner circle. Medics: Honestly I don’t have a good plan with them, I’d say protect our best clue analyzers for now until we start verifying everyone. The detectives are the key to winning this game quickly and safely, so we want to make sure they at least use up all their rolechecks – thus they’d have to be alive by night 4 (if I’m not mistaken). Also I previous mentioned that we should have someone compile all the clues / accusations…if someone would love to step up that’d be great. FIRST LYNCH If elected mayor, I will lynch whoever the town sees fit; I know there’s no formal voting for tonight since the mayor gets the lynch call – but I will do a tally myself and everyone can vote for who they think should be lynched tonight. If elected pardoner, I would hope that the new mayor will also do a vote for the first lynch. In that case I promise not to pardon the first lynch. I will also make sure in the future to stop nonsense bandwagons. Well that’s all I have to say for now, I probably missed a couple things and there’s probably a couple flaws in my plan, but I am happy to answer all your questions the best I can. The important thing is more discussion so we can try to close these loopholes and come up with a very good strategy. First let me address Zeks' DT plan here. This is an ineffective plan. For the sake of argument assume that there are two DTs and they are distributed randomly. It's about 48.3% likely that the two DTs are in the same bracket. If this is the case, there's a solid chance there will be heavy overlap in their investigations. There's also a coin flip's chance that they won't overlap at all. Compare this to the more basic case of just allowing DTs to investigate as they please. Since they're drawing from the entire pool, there will be a mild chance at overlap in their investigations. Mild overlap is actually perfectly fine since if the two DTs both investigate the same townie, it can link their 'inner circles' so that they can collectively pool information. It's worth noting here that there will also be the risk that if the DT investigates and includes the godfather in their inner circle, they could be fed false information, so DTs should take any info fed back to them with a grain of salt. Also, Zeks has constantly impressed the DTs use up all their rolechecks as quickly as possible. While I agree that it's crucial that the DTs use up their rolechecks before they die, this doesn't necessarily mean that they have to all be used up by night 4. Having a rolecheck available in the late game when more info comes out (for instance a questionable roleclaim) can seal the deal. Rolechecking random people only gives you a 6/29 chance of hitting someone mafia aligned. Further, hitting millers will make the DT feel like they just got a mafia even though they missed. Strategic rolechecks are worth so much more than random ones. After pulling out all of the flawed thinking in Zeks' post here, there's not much left! Between this post, his misquote of the rules, and having a clue aimed at him, consider me publicly pointing the finger of suspicion at Zeks. Even if you don't think I'm the best candidate for mayor's office (though I still think I am!), don't vote for this guy. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 01:55 zeks wrote: Excuse my math: its not 1/225 its actually 1/15* Even your corrected math is inaccurate. If you assume that the two DTs are in the same bracket and that they will talk to a townie that they find and they do not get roleblocked: The probability the first DT will find the second is 1/14, the probability at least one of the DTs will find the other is 1/14+13/14^2. The probability the two DTs will land on the same person who appears to be a townie given that neither of the two DTs targetted each other is 1/13*P(a random person not the two DTs appears to be a townie). If we assume two millers, that makes P(a random person not the two DTs appears to be a townie) = 21/28 = 3/4. Note that 1/28 here is the godfather, but to keep this from getting ridiculously complicated, lets assume the godfather will go ahead and link them up hoping he can leverage this into a victory down the line. In reality he'd probably just put out a hit on them both. So the probability the two DTs will link up in a single rolecheck given that they're in the same bracket is (1/14+13/14^2)+(1-(1/14+13/14^2))(1/13)(3/4)=13.8%+5.0%=18.8%, or nearly 1 in 5. These odds skyrocket as the DTs perform their second and third rolechecks. The biggest factor you failed to account for was that the DTs are highly likely to find each other (wasting rolechecks) by your method. Leaving the DTs free to search throughout the entire group reduces this overlap tremendously. I hope that those who read Zeks' posts can see the constant flaws in his logic. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 03:43 pyr0ma5ta wrote: I am most suspicious of Yellowink, for the obvious Ink clue (is this too obvious to be true?), but mostly because of his running for mayor. It is unwise to vote him in, as I'm sure that having a Mafia mayor is basically the worst thing possible. pyr0, this is the very reason I am running. The worst thing that could happen is a mafia mayor that you have no way to figure out if they're mafia. After the clues got compiled, the mafia team perhaps got together and put up a candidate for mayor that does not have any current suspicion (eg Darth). If he wins this election and ends up being red, it will be devastating to the town. On the flip side, the best thing that could happen is to have a townie mayor that you're able to clean. That's me! Once you know you can trust me, I will be a devastating force against the mafia due to my immunity to hits and ability to be a focal point for all knowledge. I will be able to mobilize the town into an effective force to root out all of the red. In the middle, we have the mayors we can't confirm and mayors who are shown to be red. The mayor can be hung just like anyone else. If the mayor can't be confirmed in some way (remember they're immune to rolechecks), his real power is largely left dormant. Now I am leaning towards Darth being town just from his posting style. But I wouldn't put my life in his hands. I wouldn't be comfortable trusting him with any info I might have. The result will be that he's either a middle strength mayor or our worst nightmare. On the other hand, I will eventually be cleaned by a DT or shown to be red - either a best case scenario or at worst falling in the middle. This is why you should vote YellowInk for Mayor! | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
To preface, I'm not so suspicious of LunarDestiny as I am of Zeks because his false information appears to be constant misunderstanding of how the game is played rather than supplying information that is inaccurate. On June 04 2010 04:23 LunarDestiny wrote: Okay, I caught up on the progress: Reason I voted for Darth is I played a total of two games with Darth in it (Caller and Ace's). In both game, Darth had decent knowledge of the game and didn't make newbie mistake. He also supported lynching inactive in the early game where not much information is available. This does not make him a good candidate for mayor. This just means he plays a decent game. He could be just as red as the next guy - and since we have no good way to figure out if he is, this is a bad thing. This is also the very platform on which I am running for mayor. Also, my advise to detective: Do not do what YellowInk is telling you. His action is very suspicious and those who are suspicious should not run for mayor before they are cleared. You can't run for mayor after being cleaned since the mayoral elections are on day 1. This game would be VERY different if DTs were able to do investigating before the elections. I invite everyone to read through my posts and think about if you would do that if you were mafia aligned and see if it fits. Then read through my posts and think about if you would do that if you were town aligned and see if it fits. The truth should become clear. Also, use role check as early as possible (night 1 and every other night. Reason is that you don't want your rolechecks to be wasted if you somehow gets killed. Find someone whom you believe is totally innocent. This can be achieved by rolechecking on night 1. If you detect a anti-town, stay quiet and don't tell anyone about result. If you detect a pro-town then use him as your spoke person (not Likely you role checked the godfather). Using people as your mouthpiece is a strategy to protect the person who is actually speaking. However, I would warn each and every townie here that just because someone is telling you that they are the DT does not mean that they are! Perhaps on day 3 Mafia player A PMs Townie player B and tells them they know player B is townie and found that player C is mafia on night 1. Then when player B speaks up and says player C is mafia, player C gets hung, then player B gets hit by the mafia that night (3KP can still beat 2 medics) so that the mafia is never revealed. This is just one of many examples possible - the point is that using a mouthpiece like this is challenging and unreliable. It's important that people understand the whole story with respect to risks and rewards in these situations. Another reason why you want to use those rolecheck as soon as possible because there is not much clues to pick from in the early game as oppose to the mid to late game. In the late game, there would be so many juicy clues that you want to check that it is almost as important as a rolecheck. Alternatively, you can choose use 2 rolechecks early while saving 1 rolecheck for later when you really need it. Remember, role check works almost always and gives much more information than a clue check which might not give you any result (fail clue check). This is all a fine way of thinking about it. I agree with using rolechecks in the early game. I just didn't want people to follow Zeks' advice to necessarily blow through all your rolechecks ASAP. For medic: I advise you to protect those who are active and shown intelligence in the game but not suspicious to be a mafia. Mafia wants to create as much confusion in the thread as possible. They also don't want the town to have a good plan to finding them which means those who have a good plan tend to be the target. Good mafia players often are active and present intelligent thought in the game as well. It's not the end of the world if you do cover a mafia. I would tend towards protecting those who you tend to believe are town over those who are merely active and intelligent. Use your own judgement - and adding in a bit of a random factor (between various people you are thinking about protecting) can help make it difficult for mafia to predict who medics might protect. For Vigilante: Stay calm man. We will need you after a few day (3 or 4) when the town would be in confusion at that point and need your one time kill to clarify things. That is my advise to the blue roles. Remember, you don't have to follow what I am telling you but use this as a reference. If you are new to the game, you want to listen to everyone's advise to you and decide who's advise is the best follow it or incorporate these advises into a good plan. Good advice. I encourage research into your role outside this thread as well. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
I know I'm town. I know that better than one out of five of you are mafia. I know that I will be cleaned by a clue check. Since it's come up a few times, neither being mayor nor being godfather protects against clue checks. These are the things that make me run for mayor. Having a reputation as a skilled player is not a good basis for mayoral candidacy. Honestly, I'd rather roulette for the mayor's position than give it to a player because they are skilled. A skilled mafia mayor is devastating just as a skilled townie mayor can be helpful. All it does is enhance the power of the position, not align it. I know that you know that if I turn up red from the clue check, you'll be able to get rid of me. If I were mafia, I wouldn't be putting myself up for the mayorship. I'd probably be keeping quiet in the election while one of my mafia brethren who had no suspicion ran for office. I wouldn't support them since when I turn up red it'd destabilize his position. I just wouldn't be participating. I'd be keeping quiet at probably 1-3 posts, maybe making an excuse, contributing a bit to clue digging, or just saying nothing of particular relevance like about 10-15 of our 30 are currently doing. The mafia would be MUCH better served by having a suspicionless mayor in position than having me be put up for it. This is why my aggressiveness for the mayoral post helps give evidence that I am townie aligned. Vote YellowInk for Mayor! | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 05:32 LunarDestiny wrote: Again, there is very limited information available right now. The only clues we got are from day 1 post by Flamewheel. In the post, we got some clues that might or might not be useful, but it is the only information we have. And you are related to the clue. If you are any other pro town people, you have to acknowledge those who are not related to the clues are better mayor candidates than those who are in the list. You are on the list and Darth is not. Now I'm not sure you're even reading the whole thread. I do not acknowledge that those not related to the clues are better mayoral candidates. Here's why: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=14#262 | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 06:01 crate wrote: I really don't see how a single clue check can clear you, YellowInk. Go look at past mafia games for why I think this way. For example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93562 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93286 Also any game where decafchicken played and wasn't mafia If there are clues pointing to you, they are not that obvious. In addition, it's common to not have every mafioso in every day post (such as in the two games I just mentioned). If clues are only moderately effective at incriminating or clearing, this only serves to help my case. If you don't trust that I am town, that is your choice. However, that I can play with no fear of incrimination and put myself up for the post reinforces that I am town. As outlined earlier, if I were red, there are much better choices of tactic I could have taken than trying to be elected. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 06:22 DarthThienAn wrote:HOWEVER. Yellow, I'm not sure why you disagree with crate's whole medic analysis. It made sense to me. There shouldn't be a situation where a mafia gets hit AND the medic saves the mafia - after all, the vigi should be following what the thread says. It depends on the vigi and the medic both, honestly. Vig don't always follow the clear path of the thread - and for good reason. If the mafia can predict who the vig is going to hit, the mafia can use this knowledge to their advantage. A couple examples off the top of my head: 1) The given target of the vig could roleclaim DT and out another suspicious mafia, thus garnering themselves credit. 2) Another mafia could whisper in someone's ear roleclaiming DT and saying that the targetted mafia is mafia, thus garnering credit and perhaps gaining a unwitting spokesperson. There are a lot of twists and turns. I'm not saying vigs should go out and make random hits, but if they allow the hits to be predictable, the mafia will use that against us. It follows from this that medics similarly can't be too sure either - though I would hope that medics and mafia don't cross paths since that means the vig thought a player was mafia when the medic was similarly convinced the same player was town. This can definitely happen though - especially if a target is mired in contraversy. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 06:22 MTF wrote: YellowInk, I feel I have to address something regarding your campaign. You know the problems I have with your main selling point, the clue, already. However, assume for the sake of argument that I believe all of those assumptions. There are still some problems with using it as your platform: 1. Having no communication between DT's, there is no guarantee that any will check you, as well as no guarantee that they won't all check you, wasting opportunities. Lack of communication between the DTs would put us in the same position as if any other player were mayor, so this is a wash. If they all check me, this isn't terrible, because then they will all be able to entrust me with all knowledge. (On the flip, if all the DTs investigate me and I were to turn up red, yeah, it would be redundant. However it's not much more likely than DTs overlapping investigating someone else that is high profile and suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if I got double DT checked even if I weren't elected for mayor.) The long term benefit is that after they both investigate me (and tell me that they trust me), I could work with them to ensure they don't overlap targets in the future. I would become a focal point for organization. 2. The stance that having a Mafia member in office is not so bad for town just because of an increased likelihood of being discovered is a faulty one. The Mayor has three votes, protection from Mafia hits, and the ability to become a mouthpiece for town. Eliminating that for town (as well as silencing an outspoken townie upon election, if one were that ballsy) for one Mafioso, who doesn't even reduce KP from their death, isn't too bad of an idea. Not a brilliant idea, mind. But, also certainly not a terrible one. I claim that it's an increased likelihood of being discovered for me in particular. If I were mafia and there's this thing out there that's a clue pointing at my face, I make a bad mayoral candidate because I'll be discovered. As a part of team mafia, I'd much rather let one who is not suspected make a run for office. (see previous post for more elaborate explanation) Also, the mayor is really only a mouthpiece for the town if people trust him. Mayors do hold a lot of power - the crux of the matter is that they typically do not hold a lot of trust. I believe that because of my position with respect to the clue it will cause more people to be more trusting of me once I can be publicly cleaned (if they're not already convinced just by my campaign). There needs to be more of a reason to vote for you. So far you have shown yourself to be intelligent and reasonable, which is good, but pushing hard for the vote simply based off of self-implied innocence is not going to work. I don't expect people to vote for me simply based on self-implied innocence. While hopefully this is weighted into your thoughts since the risk vs reward implies that I am town, it's not the only thing I have going for me. My original reason for deciding to run was because of the obvious clue pointing at me. This puts me in the unique position of being able to create a position of both power and strong trustworthiness in the mid game - a truly effective mayor. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 06:47 MooCow wrote: All the mayoral candidates seem suspicious to me anyway. Wouldn't it be so sick if all the current candidates Zeks, Yellowink and Darth were all mafia and just tricking us, since they all know who the mafia members are. Since we are doing voting what if the public were to chose someone to be a mayor ( basing it from reading his posts and seeing if he is pro town ). Of course the person would have to agree but it would kind of be like a surprise to the crowd. MTF looks like a town person to me, i might be completely wrong though. What do you guys think? I like the way of your thinking, MooCow. However, if this were the case, Zeks has all but put his head on the block for merely the chance at getting me into the mayorship - one which would not be stable since a clue check could out me. So... we'd have to be pretty bad to have tried this kind of play. ^.~ I hope at this point no one will vote for Zeks. I would not be averse to one more (townie) putting their name up. If we have more than 3 people in the running creating vote split, it would make it much easier for the mafia to get one of their own elected. To be honest, though, I think Darth will make a great pardoner because he has shown himself to have clear thought processes. If he starts spewing doubletalk or making inexplicable pardons later in the game, it'll be clear that he's mafia because he won't be able to hide behind the 'oh I'm noob and just messed up' defense. Plus, I'm leaning towards him being pro-town as well. So to sum it up, I don't think we need a 3rd, but it wouldn't be bad either. Having a 4th would be bad. Vote YellowInk for Mayor. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 07:15 littlechava wrote: At this point I believe you are town, but I'm still a little wary of your tactics so far. There's still a possibility you are Mafia, and you're using the fact that the most obvious clue from the opening day post pointed to you to your advantage - you would be outed eventually because of it, so why not cause a blow to the town before you go down by taking the mayor out of the game, as well as wasting possibly all the detective's actions for the first day on finding you out. Also, like others, I'm a little disturbed at your aggression in pushing for yourself as mayor. Coupled with the glaring clue pointing towards you, that's why I voted for Darth. He could be mafia, but he's not associated with any clues as of yet, and he seems pretty clean from his posts. Hopefully that's a genuine sign that he's a town and not just skill picked up from playing multiple games. I understand your line of thought. I'm glad you are tending towards a clean read on me. In more direct response to your argument, see http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=14#262 + Show Spoiler + The worst thing that could happen is a mafia mayor that you have no way to figure out if they're mafia. After the clues got compiled, the mafia team perhaps got together and put up a candidate for mayor that does not have any current suspicion (eg Darth). If he wins this election and ends up being red, it will be devastating to the town. On the flip side, the best thing that could happen is to have a townie mayor that you're able to clean. That's me! Once you know you can trust me, I will be a devastating force against the mafia due to my immunity to hits and ability to be a focal point for all knowledge. I will be able to mobilize the town into an effective force to root out all of the red. In the middle, we have the mayors we can't confirm and mayors who are shown to be red. The mayor can be hung just like anyone else. If the mayor can't be confirmed in some way (remember they're immune to rolechecks), his real power is largely left dormant. Now I am leaning towards Darth being town just from his posting style. But I wouldn't put my life in his hands. I wouldn't be comfortable trusting him with any info I might have. The result will be that he's either a middle strength mayor or our worst nightmare. On the other hand, I will eventually be cleaned by a DT or shown to be red - either a best case scenario or at worst falling in the middle. This is why you should vote YellowInk for Mayor! I know that you know that if I turn up red from the clue check, you'll be able to get rid of me. If I were mafia, I wouldn't be putting myself up for the mayorship. I'd probably be keeping quiet in the election while one of my mafia brethren who had no suspicion ran for office. I wouldn't support them since when I turn up red it'd destabilize his position. I just wouldn't be participating. I'd be keeping quiet at probably 1-3 posts, maybe making an excuse, contributing a bit to clue digging, or just saying nothing of particular relevance like about 10-15 of our 30 are currently doing. The mafia would be MUCH better served by having a suspicionless mayor in position than having me be put up for it. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 10:40 L wrote: Gj being active bromigos. Who are you? Also, have another post coming, it's just a bit long and this was an easy question to spit out. :D | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
Here's why no one should vote for BrownBear. On June 04 2010 07:58 BrownBear wrote: Alright, I'm back. And holy crap, has stuff been happening. Mayoral contest is heating up, with YellowInk pushing for himself pretty heavily, despite a lot of people being rather skeptical. It looks like people are reading way too much into the "hot ink/yellowink" clue, which I find odd, because it is Day 1 after all. Clues are traditionally very vague/nonexistant on day 1, and they're also usually very well hidden and not obvious. Since mayoral elections are kinda the big deal today, I thought I'd look at the candidates who have been pretty vocal - YellowInk, zeks, and Darth. YellowInk: He reeeeeeeallly wants to be mayor. Like, seriously. There's been a lot of back and forth between him and Darth re: exactly what being mayor entails. He seems to think that he can be completely cleared by cluechecks, which is not true, sorry bro. However, because pretty much everyone in this game is new, that's a very understandable mistake, so it also doesn't make him look scummy. He's been the most incendiary candidate so far, attacking both zeks and Darth on their plans for their mayorship. It's true that a clue check isn't 100%. Maybe hot ink just flavor, or maybe there's some other clue pointing at me. You can never be absolutely sure about this sort of thing. However it does provide strong evidence - stronger than anyone else can put forward at the moment. I've attacked Zeks for reasons that are clear in my post. He's playing like scum. I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. However, I still feel that I am the better candidate for the mayor's office because I have a better way to be cleaned in office than he does. Sure, it's not 100%, but it's better than he has. That BrownBear would choose to say that I have attacked Darth on his plans for mayorship incites conflict where there is none. Here's what I think: A DT should CLUECHECK (not rolecheck) the hot-ink part of today's post tonight. If that's a clue, then that's pretty damning for poor YellowInk, although we should profile-analyze everyone else just to be sure. It's far more likely that it's nothing, however, which is why I'm not advocating a rolecheck this early in the game (I do not think rolechecks should be used night 1. It's unlikely the DTs are going to die night 1, and having rolechecks late in the game is very useful), so if it's not a clue, then I'd be ok with YellowInk being mayor. Unfortunately, since there's no way to cluecheck before the elections are done, I can't endorse YellowInk for mayor, sorry bro. If you're going to cluecheck it but not try to link it to me, this is a poor play. If it turns up as merely flavor, the move gained no new information. If it turns up as a clue, it'll make me look bad even though I know it's pointed at someone else. Either I'll get lynched (at which point you'll see that I really am town) or at DT will use up another move seeing if it's linked to me (at which point they'll find it isn't and will have gained no useful information). If you're going to cluecheck it at all, see that it's not linked to me. But only bother to do this if you believe that it coming up as negative cleans me. Do not be led by BrownBear's attempts at making your plays less effective. zeks: he has a plan. He posted his plan. I'm really not a fan of it. His logic behind the DT rolecheck pattern is flawed, for this reason: there is something like a 48% chance they are both in the same bracket. Even though there's a 1 in 225 chance that they both rolecheck the same person, there's a 100% chance that half the players in the game are being completely ignored. This is very very bad. Again, he doesn't look scummy, he looks new. This is not a bad thing, but again, I can't in good conscience vote for a candidate who i don't agree with. BrownBear's math is as bad as Zeks' even after I corrected it! No worries, this isn't why this area reeks of scum. It's because after the several posts of Zeks trying to mislead town, BrownBear is trying to shrug it all off as Zeks looking new. Also, Zeks isn't new. I havn't gone digging through the history of mafia here (yet), but crate earlier linked a couple games. In particular, see that this is a game from May of 2009 that Zeks played in. On June 04 2010 06:01 crate wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93562 I don't buy any of it, BrownBear. Moving on. DarthThienAn: I've played a game with him before (3 kingdoms mafia rawr :3) and we did pretty well. From his posts so far, he's very pro-town, which I like. His style of play in the last game we played was to make some slightly scummy decisions to try and draw people out. Mafia players tend to love to accuse any town player acting even slightly weird of being mafia, as it draws the suspicion away from him. He had been cleared town by alignment checks, so he went fishing, and (iirc) it didn't really pay off that much, but it wasn't a bad tactic. I feel most comfortable voting for Darth, if only because I have played with him before, and I know he knows the game reasonably well. It's nothing against the new players (this is a new player game after all ^^), but mayor is a role that can make or break town, and we need someone with slightly more experience in the role, plus there are no clues against him and he has a pro-town attitude. So I say, vote Darth for mayor! This is a set up to garner good will. People like Darth already. He's just riding it. This doesn't contribute much to the discussion anyhow. That he played well or poorly in the past does not reflect on whether or not he should be elected mayor. It doesn't make him any more likely to be pro town in this game. Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to announce my candidacy for Pardoner. There haven't been any clear pardoner candidates yet, so I thought I might as well get the ball rolling. As pardoner, here's what I would do: 1) Attempt to establish clear connections to confirmed townies I want to try and work with the most active, coolest town people in the game. I would try to coordinate with DTs secretly to attempt to catch scum, I would work with the medic(s) to protect those that need protecting, and the vigilantes to nail confirmed scum. 2) Pardon power roles if necessary If a confirmed townie ever comes under fire from the town and is about to get lynched, I will pardon and protect them. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep the confirmed townies, particularly the power roles, alive, as they will be the ones that win us the game. This is all stuff any pardoner should be doing, if they can. The trick of it, just like the mayor's position, is to have developed enough trust with the townies that they're willing to work with you. Both the mayor and the pardoner have a great deal of power, but either of them can still be mafia. In essense, this block of text says nothing that everyone doesn't already know (or at least should know). Here are my credentials: Have played 2 mafia games before. Won one handily (3 kingdoms) and just barely lost the other (The Life Aquatic). Was townie both times. I am a standard, green townie this game. No special roles, so I am a low-priority target. I am completely clean from the day 1 clues, and there is no suspicion against me. I AM NOT SCUM. Except for the part where the top half of your post exclaims, "I AM SCUM!" at the top of your lungs. Seriously, you probably would have done much better if you had just posted that you were interested in the pardoner position without all the nonsense you led off with. Considering how much a few of the irrational people seem to dislike me, you might have gotten it. That last point is the most important one, and let me stress why: It's bad to let a mafia player (or god forbid, the GF) get into any elected role, but especially bad to give them Pardoner. The reasoning is, Pardoner gets a free ability to protect ANYONE from lynch, two times, and we have no way to block it. What this means is, if a mafia has Pardoner role, unless we catch on really quickly, we essentially have to lynch 8 mafia instead of 6, as the pardoner can protect his brethren twice. This is something we DON'T want to happen. Now consider this. There are 6 mafia. If they vote as a bloc, that probably won't be enough to get any scum into the mayor slot, but seeing as there doesn't seem to be a strong second candidate, that just might be enough to give one of them Pardoner. They can probably hide it pretty well too, by have one of their own announce candidacy for mayor and posting a bunch of stuff so he seems legit, then just having them all vote for him, spreading it out throughout the day so it's even less obvious. I don't want that to happen. Thus, I want you to elect me for Pardoner. What this means is, I am trying to place SECOND in the mayoral election. Whoever you guys choose for mayor (I'm backing Darth, but it doesn't necessarily have to be him) needs to be ahead of me, but I should be ideally, just one vote behind him. So here's what I'm proposing: I am voting for myself now. That will give me 1 vote, Darth currently has 4. Two more people should vote for me, then we should go by the following: One person votes for Darth, one votes for me. Thus, we will slowly creep up, I will never tie or pass Darth in terms of voting, and, assuming for random 3rd party candidates, Darth should end up with something like 9 votes, I should then end up with 8. That should be enough to keep the scum out of office. With such a contrived method and keeping the vote counts close as you suggest, the mafia would probably be glad to bump the vote up to make you mayor if you've got enough townies behind you near the end. They could do it and claim noobishness and everyone would shrug saying it's a noob game. Oh look, now we have a mafia mayor. It's true, though. We don't want a mafia mayor OR a mafia pardoner. BrownBear is not someone we want to elect. I hope you all agree with me. I think my stance is clear here. :D All this being said, I would still be ok a third candidate for the elections. On on! | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 11:27 DarthThienAn wrote: Hm, yea. The whole idea of course depends on vigilantes following the town's votes. But I think you're still misunderstanding, so lemme lay out my interpretation of the plan: ASSUMPTION: -vigilante never hits anyone without the town's suggesting it or voting on it. -medic doesn't protect anyone who the town would suspect enough to send a vig hit. With those two intact, the only killing happening at night should be by mafia, except when we tell the vig to hit someone, of course. SO: -medic successfully protects a hit on someone. -that someone cannot be mafia, because the mafia would never nightkill their own for no reason - it just doesn't accomplish anything lol, except maybe tricking the town into thinking that the vigs took a shot which is relatively useless. -since that person is town, and the medic is obviously town, the medic has a positive townie. hence, PM, etc. two townies now know who each other are, which is a big deal, especially if you add on a couple more or if by chance, the saved guy is already in a town circle. The only real disadvantage to this plan is that mafia would know who's getting hit by vigilantes and can avoid doubling up on someone like that. However, it's a small price to pay when that's the way it will probably unfold anyway, and we have a potential positive read for medics as a reward. Assuming I haven't majorly messed up in here, I think you should be able to agree with this argument. I agree with your argument here. This is part of the ultimate goal of townies - to organize our forces. If we can manage this, mafia have almost no chance at winning. I was working under the assumption that we were not organized. The challenge to organizing lies with trust. If a power role places their trust in a mafia for whatever reason, it can be absolutely devastating to the town. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 11:22 LunarDestiny wrote: YellowInk, you don't want to know who L is. And you hope in the future you don't play a mafia with L in it because he always cause a ruckus (good and bad). Why is he posting in our thread if he's not a mod and he's not in our game? Is this permissible? | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
LD, if you're really town, please stop and think more about what you're posting before putting it up. Think it all the way through to it's logical completion. Because LD was so quick to vote for Darth in the early game, some of this suspicion bleeds on to Darth as well. In Darth's defense, though, his own posts have been very well thought out and beneficial to the community, so I still lean towards pro town on him. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 11:55 Korynne wrote: I would like to point out that BrownBear made a false statement. xP You didn't so much barely lose as you caused the town to lose if I recall correctly. =P XeliN was like OMG KORYNNE SCUM except you did all sorts of stupid shit and made yourself too scummy to not vote for. =P So I guess you could say you just barely lost but it was also like, you were a big part of the cause. =P Anyway hope this post is okay cuz like, that's not deep analysis, if you read that game at the end you're just like, ohhh fuck. xD Edit: Yeah we all like to lurk and post random one-liners in games. xP No worries, just ignore us all. =P Eh, if it's ok with the mod and the community, it's fine by me. I just worry that it could influence the game, even if unintentional or obliquely. Posting after the game has completed about your thoughts while you watched the game should be fine regardless. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 12:33 DarthThienAn wrote: As far as I know, LD and I just share a mutual bond of affection and love. Same with BB. A lot of my supporters in thread right now are just people who have played with me in the past. Ugh, is that how games here go? That will make the games really swingy. Have to work with what we're given though, eh? Oh, and Vote YellowInk for Mayor! | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote: stuff+ Show Spoiler + On June 04 2010 11:44 YellowInk wrote: BrownBear, your post reeks of scum. A lot. If this were a game with experienced players I probably would hold off because I'd expect others to pick up on it as well. I'd let you try to make a couple more plays before pointing the finger. But since it's not, here's another incendiary post. Here's why no one should vote for BrownBear. And here's why no one should listen to you It's true that a clue check isn't 100%. Maybe hot ink just flavor, or maybe there's some other clue pointing at me. You can never be absolutely sure about this sort of thing. However it does provide strong evidence - stronger than anyone else can put forward at the moment. I've attacked Zeks for reasons that are clear in my post. He's playing like scum. I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. However, I still feel that I am the better candidate for the mayor's office because I have a better way to be cleaned in office than he does. Sure, it's not 100%, but it's better than he has. That BrownBear would choose to say that I have attacked Darth on his plans for mayorship incites conflict where there is none. So... you're saying that hot ink is strong evidence against you. cool. There's a very very serious thing in mafia games. This thing is called the Finger of Shame. The Finger of Shame is what you point at people when you want to accuse them of mafia, and should only be used as a tool to incriminate people you are positive are scum. The Finger of Shame is what you are pointing all over the freakin' place, on day 1. This is a very very confusing thing for you to be doing, as we have little to no evidence to go on. You think zeks is playing like scum, sure, go ahead. It is day 1, however. I have read over zeks' posts, and I don't see anything of serious note in them, so I guess you know something I don't. However, you've accused at least 2 (possibly more) people of being scum. On the first day. You do know you have a chance in 5 of being correct, right? There is no way you have enough evidence to call scum on someone, so you have just rolled the roulette wheel on me and zeks being mafia. What you are doing is very bad, because if you start suspicion on people, you have a 20% chance of it paying off and them flipping red when they are eventually lynched. You have an 80% chance of hitting a townie, weakening the town, and making yourself look bad. If you're going to cluecheck it but not try to link it to me, this is a poor play. If it turns up as merely flavor, the move gained no new information. If it turns up as a clue, it'll make me look bad even though I know it's pointed at someone else. Either I'll get lynched (at which point you'll see that I really am town) or at DT will use up another move seeing if it's linked to me (at which point they'll find it isn't and will have gained no useful information). If you're going to cluecheck it at all, see that it's not linked to me. But only bother to do this if you believe that it coming up as negative cleans me. Do not be led by BrownBear's attempts at making your plays less effective. Yep. That's me. Trying to make everyone's play less effective. Allow me to quote you for a second: On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote: The difference between me and others is that many of them are less clear and overlap. I would be willing to bet that we could try to put together a comprehensive list of how all the clues possibly attach to any of the profiles and there would be at least one mafia who we missed in that list. If someone has multiple clues that could possibly point to them, they're a poor candidate for mayor since it would take several days to clean them. Because I have a singular clue, it puts me in the position to be cleaned efficiently. Yes, if I am not elected to mayor, I'm sure a DT will still check my clue out and find that I am town. In this case I will be supportive in any way that I can. The point of electing me to mayor is that I can be efficiently cleaned in office where others can not. You will always have to wonder if the mayor is red. You told us to cluecheck you. I am saying we should cluecheck you. I don't see where the problem is? Oh wait, I do. You think I want people to cluecheck and not try and link it to you. That's stupid. Just because I said "hey someone should cluecheck" instead of EXPLICITLY saying "cluecheck and see if it's linked to yellowink" I am making the town play less effectively? I question your logic, good sir. I question it. BrownBear's math is as bad as Zeks' even after I corrected it! No worries, this isn't why this area reeks of scum. It's because after the several posts of Zeks trying to mislead town, BrownBear is trying to shrug it all off as Zeks looking new. Also, Zeks isn't new. I havn't gone digging through the history of mafia here (yet), but crate earlier linked a couple games. In particular, see that this is a game from May of 2009 that Zeks played in. I don't buy any of it, BrownBear. Moving on. If you want to accuse my math of being terrible, please back it up with evidence of why my math is terrible. Otherwise, you're just throwing accusations around, which is a bad thing. Also, I didn't know about zeks playing before, my bad. However, in my defense, I joined in the winter, so I was not around in May 2009 when zeks was playing. Still, whoopsie on my part. I just assumed that since this is a more new-player-focused game, most people would be playing their first or second game of mafia. Out of curiosity, is this your first game? Not attacking you or anything here, just curious. This is a set up to garner good will. People like Darth already. He's just riding it. This doesn't contribute much to the discussion anyhow. That he played well or poorly in the past does not reflect on whether or not he should be elected mayor. It doesn't make him any more likely to be pro town in this game. On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote: I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. Hey, contradictions, cool. Also, the fact that he played well in the past doesn't have bearing on whether he's elected mayor? Dude, it has all the bearing in the world, especially if he is pro-town like you say he is. By your logic, if Darth is pro-town, he's the best mayoral candidate. This is all stuff any pardoner should be doing, if they can. The trick of it, just like the mayor's position, is to have developed enough trust with the townies that they're willing to work with you. Both the mayor and the pardoner have a great deal of power, but either of them can still be mafia. In essense, this block of text says nothing that everyone doesn't already know (or at least should know). And your block of text responding to my block of text says even less. I said that for a reason - I wanted to point out that hey, I know how to play pardoner! When you're trying to run for an elected office, it's generally a good idea to, I don't know, prove that you know what your job is if you happen to get elected? You're now fishing pretty deep to find nonexistent "evidence" that proves absolutely nothing about me other than I know what I'm doing. Except for the part where the top half of your post exclaims, "I AM SCUM!" at the top of your lungs. Seriously, you probably would have done much better if you had just posted that you were interested in the pardoner position without all the nonsense you led off with. Considering how much a few of the irrational people seem to dislike me, you might have gotten it. Uh, what? I'm actually not sure what this is saying. You want me to do less analysis? Ok, cool... With such a contrived method and keeping the vote counts close as you suggest, the mafia would probably be glad to bump the vote up to make you mayor if you've got enough townies behind you near the end. They could do it and claim noobishness and everyone would shrug saying it's a noob game. Oh look, now we have a mafia mayor. It's true, though. We don't want a mafia mayor OR a mafia pardoner. BrownBear is not someone we want to elect. Meh, that would actually be an effective tactic, if everyone was retarded. Thing is, people aren't. The minute mafia tries to pull a stunt like that, we have at least 3 of them. I explicitly state that my vote count will never exceed Darth's. If I were mafia, and my teammates tried to bump me ahead of him last minute, I'm very certain that people would see that, think "hmmm, now why would those people vote against the very clear plan that was laid out?" and all 3 of us would likely go down. The mafia plan you have laid out here is just plain silly. I think my stance is clear here. :D All this being said, I would still be ok a third candidate for the elections. On on! And I think my stance is clear here :D Before, I just thought you were an overzealous new player who really really really wanted to be mayor, which I can't really fault. But now, I'm seriously starting to question you. PS this is also not intended to be a personal attack against you I love the fact that you're being so active, keep it up! Considering I have already either responded to each point you've made or that the logic is blatantly flawed, I will just direct the populace to read carefully to see the truth. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 12:55 DarthThienAn wrote: + Show Spoiler [BB] + On June 04 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote: And here's why no one should listen to you So... you're saying that hot ink is strong evidence against you. cool. There's a very very serious thing in mafia games. This thing is called the Finger of Shame. The Finger of Shame is what you point at people when you want to accuse them of mafia, and should only be used as a tool to incriminate people you are positive are scum. The Finger of Shame is what you are pointing all over the freakin' place, on day 1. This is a very very confusing thing for you to be doing, as we have little to no evidence to go on. You think zeks is playing like scum, sure, go ahead. It is day 1, however. I have read over zeks' posts, and I don't see anything of serious note in them, so I guess you know something I don't. However, you've accused at least 2 (possibly more) people of being scum. On the first day. You do know you have a chance in 5 of being correct, right? There is no way you have enough evidence to call scum on someone, so you have just rolled the roulette wheel on me and zeks being mafia. What you are doing is very bad, because if you start suspicion on people, you have a 20% chance of it paying off and them flipping red when they are eventually lynched. You have an 80% chance of hitting a townie, weakening the town, and making yourself look bad. Yep. That's me. Trying to make everyone's play less effective. Allow me to quote you for a second: You told us to cluecheck you. I am saying we should cluecheck you. I don't see where the problem is? Oh wait, I do. You think I want people to cluecheck and not try and link it to you. That's stupid. Just because I said "hey someone should cluecheck" instead of EXPLICITLY saying "cluecheck and see if it's linked to yellowink" I am making the town play less effectively? I question your logic, good sir. I question it. If you want to accuse my math of being terrible, please back it up with evidence of why my math is terrible. Otherwise, you're just throwing accusations around, which is a bad thing. Also, I didn't know about zeks playing before, my bad. However, in my defense, I joined in the winter, so I was not around in May 2009 when zeks was playing. Still, whoopsie on my part. I just assumed that since this is a more new-player-focused game, most people would be playing their first or second game of mafia. Out of curiosity, is this your first game? Not attacking you or anything here, just curious. Hey, contradictions, cool. Also, the fact that he played well in the past doesn't have bearing on whether he's elected mayor? Dude, it has all the bearing in the world, especially if he is pro-town like you say he is. By your logic, if Darth is pro-town, he's the best mayoral candidate. And your block of text responding to my block of text says even less. I said that for a reason - I wanted to point out that hey, I know how to play pardoner! When you're trying to run for an elected office, it's generally a good idea to, I don't know, prove that you know what your job is if you happen to get elected? You're now fishing pretty deep to find nonexistent "evidence" that proves absolutely nothing about me other than I know what I'm doing. Uh, what? I'm actually not sure what this is saying. You want me to do less analysis? Ok, cool... Meh, that would actually be an effective tactic, if everyone was retarded. Thing is, people aren't. The minute mafia tries to pull a stunt like that, we have at least 3 of them. I explicitly state that my vote count will never exceed Darth's. If I were mafia, and my teammates tried to bump me ahead of him last minute, I'm very certain that people would see that, think "hmmm, now why would those people vote against the very clear plan that was laid out?" and all 3 of us would likely go down. The mafia plan you have laid out here is just plain silly. And I think my stance is clear here :D Before, I just thought you were an overzealous new player who really really really wanted to be mayor, which I can't really fault. But now, I'm seriously starting to question you. PS this is also not intended to be a personal attack against you I love the fact that you're being so active, keep it up! Dude I always thought it was Finger of Suspicion. How about we just call it the Finger of Suck? Flip Off Scum? I could think of a few more vulgar things as well... :D Lets just call it The Finger. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 13:23 crate wrote:YellowInk has put more words in the thread than probably anyone else. Much of it has been jumping on mistakes and claiming that he's clean and can be confirmed, a good deal of the rest has been poking holes in plans. I don't recall him saying what he'd do with his mayor lynch if he wins, but I could have missed it in my skimming the thread again in his sheer number of posts. All of this is true, though it's worth elaborating (since many people seem to miss the point of it) that the fact that there is one clear clue on me makes me easier to create evidence that I am clean (even with a rolecheck block ability). This is what puts me ahead of candidates given a blank slate. Add to this my posting style and choice of strategy and it makes it highly unlikely that I am red. I had not stated what I would do with my lynch yet. The answer to this is a bit complicated, but since you requested it, it's worth laying out here. The short answer is that I would work with the pardoner to target a relatively inactive poster who has raised suspicion for some reason. If people wanted flexibility rather than just trusting to our judgement, I would be fine with putting together a short list and having the group vote on it. The reason for doing it this way is because someone who is completely inactive will be modkilled. If I use my lynch on someone who is probably going to get modkilled anyway, this is a wasted lynch. Because I do want to encourage real participation, my lynch target would be someone who is relatively inactive. For example, despite that I am suspicious of BB, Zeks, and LD, none of these people would be the target of my lynch. I havn't put together anything comprehensive yet, but if the day ended right now and I were mayor and had to choose, targets would be people more like AcrossFiveJulys, ElyAs, or deconduo. These are people who have clues pointed at them, have contributed little or nothing to the thread, but have posted and so are avoiding a modkill. No, I'm not convinced that any of these targets are scum, but this method of choosing a target will give us decent odds at hitting one, encourage real participation, and not be wasteful with the lynch. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
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YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 13:48 DarthThienAn wrote: (reading YellowInk's response) I disagree with the bit about the modkill. I'd rather kill someone who's going to die anyway and preserve the town population count at this point. Maybe as a day 2 or 3 thing where we have more information, but at this point, I wouldn't mind lynching an inactive who will be modkilled anyway. For the sake of argument, consider a game of mafia where we had no roles except vanilla townie and vanilla scum. It's clear that in a game like this, you never want to waste a lynch - it's the only way townies have a way to kill scum ever, even if it's completely random it is a net zero play. In truth, at the end of day 1 we do have some information, though it is limited - we have all of the posts that people have made thus far. So choosing a lynch victim based on the information we have is a pro townie play, even if it is still somewhat random. Now consider a regular game with roles like the one we're actually playing. If one were to argue that wasting the first lynch is pro town because we havn't done any investigating yet, this is implying that as the game goes on, the game evolves into a state where townies continuously gain advantage over time. This simply isn't the case. On day 2 and sometimes day 3, the town will still have little to no real 'hard evidence' on anyone. Our lynch victims will be chosen based on various reasonings - mostly that we think either the target is scum, or that if the target is revealed to be town it will strongly imply that someone else is scum, or to encourage a certain behavior (being active) so that we gain the capacity to root out the scum. It's the same on day 1 - we choose a lynch victim that will improve the state of the game such that we can find mafia. I avoid choosing to lynch someone who is likely to be modkilled because lynching such a person does not provide motivation. They were going to die anyway. As such this is a wasted kill. Therefore this does not benefit the town. Per my earlier post, I expect that AFJ, Elyas, and DD will be contributing more to the thread. If they don't, they're ignoring this kind of a warning and should be lynched. Does this make things clearer? | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
Consider the flip side - if a mafia player goes after everyone aggressively in the same manner, they're drawing attention to themselves. Such players are likely to be investigated - NOT because a detective necessarily expects them to turn up mafia, but because if they do, it not only gives the DT the name of a mafia, but also a number of people who are highly likely to be town! If a DT were find me mafia, they could reasonably conclude that it's likely that BB, LD, and Zeks are town. Of course this isn't 100% since 1) good mafia players will also cast suspicion on fellow mafia to help avoid this kind of collateral damage and 2) if taken as truth before I am hung, I could be a Miller. In any case, mafia playing aggressively like this can give the town a whole lot of information if and when the truth gets out. As such, most mafia generally have to play fairly quietly. Enough to maintain a presence in the thread, but not so much that they'll open themselves up to getting caught in a lie or give the town too much information if they are found red. This being said, play styles do vary and some people will play mafia roles counter to this stereotype, but it is a highly risky move for the reasons outlined above. This is why my aggressive play style gives evidence that I am pro town. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 14:15 LunarDestiny wrote: Flamewheel did mention something about mod killing the inactive (those who didn't vote). Someone got to confirm with Flamewheel on that matter about will he really mod kill the inactive. For the first lynch, I want the target to be an inactive (posted minimum to stay alive) and also has clues relating to him. I'm SO glad we agree on something! | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 14:25 DarthThienAn wrote: ebwop: my 1000th post is probably the shortest I've made all game and about the game rules. lulz. epic. And I no longer recognize my own avatar =[. WHY COULDN'T MY TRAINER PRESS B AND STOP ME FROM EVOLVING. That appears to be a corsair. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 14:31 BrownBear wrote: I'm inclined to back him up on this, because it's true. I'm pretty sure he's town, given his insane level of activity and aggressive use of Finger of Suspicion. However, don't overdo the aggression, bro. You'll just end up confusing people and then the mafia can sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch us lynch ourselves to death. This is true in the mid-late game especially. This is why we need to ensure in the early game that people cannot lurk posting at minimum - or even posting a lot but avoiding posting anything of substance. However, because of the flaws in your campaign post (though I know you don't agree with me) I have to strongly oppose you being elected. It's not like I'm looking to bandwagon you on day 2 or anything (or Zeks for that matter). You're very solidly on my 'unsure' list. To be fair, I bet if every single player posted as much about their thoughts on the game as you did, I'd be able to pick apart far more than 6 posters. That is to say, I'd tag a number of non mafia as suspicious. Not everyone has great logic, but mafia by their very role need to put false information into their posts... or avoid putting anything of relevance into their posts. Players like Darth, MTF, and crate I lean towards pro town because their thoughts are fairly well reasoned and they are contributing to the thread. This doesn't mean that they're 100% clear, but it's the sort of activity that I want to see from all the posters. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 14:38 LunarDestiny wrote: Hmm... I took a look on how many posts yellow ink made. TL Mafia XXVI 61 68 172 187 190 197 199 210 215 216 222 223 228 230 251 252 261 262 272 274 276 280 283 285 286 288 311 315 316 317 320 321 327 329 335 338 Then I look at my numbers of post for comparison... TL Mafia XXVI 15 40 110 118 121 130 136 141 155 157 240 263 266 267 268 273 275 277 296 298 299 302 303 306 312 319 324 330 336 I consider myself posting a lot. But Yellow Ink man... most of his posts are pretty damn long. Either he is trying to be the Master Mafia, or he has no life and is pro town. Ahaha, fair enough. The truth is I love gaming. I said this early in my campaign (in response to Darth saying he'd be active). I'm doing other things online as I play here, though, so it's not a huge burden for me. I'm sure it's much the same for other active posters. Play a game of SC2, check & respond to mafia, rinse and repeat. I have a life though! =\ But I do love gaming! | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 14:50 DCLXVI wrote: My impressions of the candidates: YellowInk: I don't like how he just seems to jump around accusing everyone. He also seems to think that the ink "clue" makes him a perfect candidate: easily cleaned or mafia, which is wrong. I have no idea what he will do in office, but I hope that if he gets a position he does not continue to act like he does now pointing fingers at everyone. Either dumb mafia or hotheaded townie I just want to make sure you've read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=19#361 since it responds to the thoughts you've expressed here. Also, with some of my longer term views re: hotheadedness http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=19#368 Maybe you were writing this post went up before you had the chance to read them since they were two of my more recent posts. You need not worry that I would be reckless in office. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
At this point in the time of day, I think it would be a bad idea for any new candidates to present themselves. Because of how few people have voted so far, I'm concerned that mafia may attempt to present one of their own "because they don't like the candidates that are up so far", claim their credentials as having no suspicion etc etc and rack up just enough votes to land them at least the pardoner's slot. Between a few mafia vote contributions (not all, this would be asking for a mass mafia suicide) and swaying some of the less experienced populace, I think a tactic like this might be effective (except that I'm warning you all so don't let it happen!) Among the candidates currently present, you all already know how I feel about BB and Zeks. Though BB has been posting more reasonably since after his massive reply to my calling him out. For this reason I would most prefer to have DTA as my pardoner. Of course I'm not 100% sure he's town, but I think he's the most likely to be town of what's presented and I would be highly suspicious of anyone else presenting themselves for election so late. So please put in your votes! Vote YellowInk for mayor! and DarthThienAn enough votes for pardoner so mafia can't squeak anyone in. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
It's good to see a bit of discussion about the candidacy and how people are thinking. Let me just take a moment to put out a few quick responses to some of the things directed my way. @MTF I decided to have a bit of fun with the end-of-post gimmik. I'm not doing it every post since with how much I've been posting it might just get annoying, but it's all in good fun. @deconduo I look forward to your response - we havn't heard much from you this game. However considering your post was about 9 hours ago now, this is putting whatever information you want to present very close to the end of the day. In the future it's really important to get as many of your thoughts out earlier so that people can react and talk about them. @barth It's been said that clues in the day 1 post are often vague or nonexistant. This is a beginners game, so I expect the clues to not be too oblique - but any way you cut it it'd be very risky for me to put myself in the public spotlight like this if I were red. I've previously outlined much more effective strategies I could have chosen if I were mafia. @Zeks It's only viral now because you've posted it! With respect to lynch targets, I'll put together a list after this so that those people either get more active and get off of it or you'll have an idea of who is likely to be a target tonight. @ElyAs Voting for ones self is commonly equivilant to abstaining which Darth had pointed out earlier. Though jiabung should be more active in thread, too! @bumatlarge If elected, if I'm miller, this is a great victory for the town. Elected positions cannot be role checked (which is why I made my case on that a clue check can provide evidence that I'm clean if necessary - elected positions are not immune to clue checks). All the down side of miller would be negated. With respect to some of the comments going around about people quietly getting on the DTA wagon - I don't feel that this sort of behavior is intrinsically scummy. Yeah, I'm wary of it, but I'm not going to be giving them The Finger for it. My interest at this point is in posting activity. I expect every townie to post and provide content. If you're posting without substance, you will be noticed. If all the townies are posting, the mafia have to choose between these options: not post and get modkilled, post with no substance so I can lynch you, post bad content so I can point it out, or post good content and help the town. Pretty bad options for the scum, eh? To everyone else - please make sure to get your votes in. I'd also advise you to follow the recent trend of talking about why you're voting the way you do. It helps us all get a read on you. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 04 2010 11:39 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: Gonna read the activity in the thread so far and post my thoughts tonight. You should all be excited to read my genius analysis. And argh I didn't realize this was gonna be a clue game... I like to analyze people by their posts rather than clues, but oh well. It's been 15 hours, still waiting for this. On June 04 2010 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote: Sorry that I came in late, but I forgot about this. I'll re-read today, but I will be gone for next 2 days (ARML) It's been 13 hours, We still need to hear your thoughts today! On June 04 2010 15:42 deconduo wrote: Been reading up on the thread. I think I'm going to vote for Darth, just because yellowink is too suspicious to me. Gonna explain my exact reasons when I get back from work. It's been 10 hours, love to hear what you have to say. On June 05 2010 01:12 Thegilaboy wrote: YellowInk: Just wanted to point out, deconduo is not posting at the end of the day as he is in Ireland. His end of the day and ours don't match up, and like he said in his post, he'll be posting more when he gets back from work. So I wouldn't worry too much about what times people are posting, as this is an international community we won't all be awake and active at the same times all the time This is perfectly fine, but as his last post implied he was headed out to work, I'd expect his response coming up very soon. Beyond these three, other people on my 'list' include pyro0ma5ta - No, not because you said you want to lynch me, but because you have contributed very little thought to the game. CompX - Pointed at ElyAs at the very beginning but has contributed almost nothing. jiabung - Helped collect a few clues at the very beginning but then has had nothing else to say. 3 Lions - Helped collect a few clues at the very beginning but then has had nothing else to say. Deucegladlier - Has had nothing relevant to say. Tyranos_NiveK - The one post you made of substance wasn't very clear. It seemed like you were directing it my way, but I'm not sure. We'd love to hear more from you! Zyrre - I know you're behind me, but I want to hear more from you in thread. So that's 10 people, a third of our community that really needs to speak up more. Cross referencing this with the 'clue' list we have as our primary targets: deconduo, TyranoS_NiveK, jiabung. These three must speak up if they intend to keep their heads. Also worth noting here that I believe the only two people who have not posted in thread are currently LaXerCannon and Icysoul. LaXerCannon has a clue on him, so if he shows up to avoid modkill, he better be posting some good substance and not just trying to skate by with an 'oh hi, I'm here' post. I'm not too familiar with these forums - is there an easy way to search a user's posts in a given thread? I couldn't get the search engine to do so - it wanted me to search for specific content as well. It seemed like LD was able to do this. Vote YellowInk for Mayor! (because Zeks loves it) | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 05 2010 02:49 sputnik.theory wrote: Also, it's my impression that the 'day' ends at 11:00 KST and I plan on voting closer to then. If I'm wrong someone let me know cause I'd hate to 'waste' my warning this early on in the game. This goes for everyone regarding voting - especially in the mayor's election (because we need to keep the mafia from being able to just do a quick bandwagon sweep at the end): Just vote. You can change your vote. It's not a big deal. If something happens that you fail to get back in time, at least you're not getting warned/modkilled for it. If you're really indecisive you could just vote for yourself with intention to put a vote on who you mean to later. The game description states that we're on a strict 24/48 time cycle which means that no one gets lynched until that time is up. There are other mafia games where people can get lynched if they hit majority before the deadline, they're immediately lynched - but I see this nowhere in this particular game's rules (MOD please clarify if I have misinterpreted). So just vote! You're even allowed to vote for yourself - no big deal if you're not in danger of getting lynched and you think there's a chance you might miss the deadline. Getting modkilled sucks for the game - never be inactive. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 05 2010 09:48 DCLXVI wrote: you should lynch LD because he references Haruhi season 2 in his profile Seriously though, trying to figure out DTA is driving me crazy. His posts feel townie, and he does everything he can to help the town. But many people just vote for him randomly and/or support him so quickly. Either we have overly trusting townies or he is mafia (with LD). I really hope not though. lol at me "possessing the printer" causing it to explode ^^ Question DTA: who has been pushing lynch Tyranos? I know I have mentioned that he was on both list and YI did too? I can field this one. I wouldn't say pushing, but if you look back at the discussion that occurred after crate asked who we would hang if we were mayor, one of the options put out was that we might have voting involved. A couple people in there mentioned (offhandedly) that they would probably lean towards Tyranos being their vote if it came to it. No one mentioned jiabung. Since the post where I made a short list, DD posted having returned from work leaving just the two targets. I advised DTA to hang jiabung because it costs the mafia almost nothing to just make a passing remark that they would lean towards Tyranos being hung. In truth, since we have almost no information on either Tyranos or jiabung (which is the very reason they're on the short list to begin with), in the absence of outside information it's really a coin flip. Since a couple people mentioned Tyranos, I advised jiabung. If I had been elected mayor, I would have made my choice like this independently (explaining as I am now) in response to whatever voting might have occurred. It's also worth noting that I would add LaXerCannon to this short list as well because he went from being totally inactive to just barely avoiding modkill. However a couple people had also mentioned they'd be fine with him being hung so the end result is the same that jiabung is the chosen lynch. Going forward we will be looking especially hard at inactives. We can not allow mafia to hide in the shadows. Once there are no shadows we can get to the 'real' part of this game where we try to put together our heads and figure this out. It is my hope that everyone becomes active quickly so we do not lose too much time in getting everyone to come out. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
So to the medics I would say protect active people. Make it so that if the mafia targets active townies, they're going to get hits blocked. Pick out a couple or a few of the active townies that you think are likely to be town, then randomly decide who you want to protect. I specifically suggest a small element randomness so that it can't be predictable who you choose to defend. To the detectives I suggest targetting the active players with rolechecks. Get some hard and useful information to work with right away. Moreso than the medics, pick a decent number of targets who you think are likely to be scum - I'd suggest 5 or 6 - and randomly choose among them. I again suggest an element of randomness to reduce the likelyhood that you would follow the same train of thought that your fellow detective(s) might choose. Everyone else gets to sit tight of course since vigs can't hit on night one. I would also like to put out there that if you trust myself or DTA, feel free to roleclaim to either or both of us (if you're roleclaiming to both of us, please specifically say so - if you do not, I will assume that you don't want your name passed on). We will work together sharing how many of what types of roles have been roleclaimed to us so that we can coordinate your efforts. Understand that we won't be able to feed any info back except for suggesting targets since mafia are able to roleclaim to us just as easily as the blues. Also, if you don't trust either of us enough to roleclaim, that's up to you. Just know the door is open later on as well. DTA and I both hold power in that we can't be killed - so we make good focal points for information. The trick is always trust. So those of you who do, lets use it to our advantage and coordinate. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
DTA's idea was a decent one since it might improve activity for you all to see what sort of first impressions you have given. I'm not going to use points or anything though. CompX - You provided almost no content on day 1. You pointed at ElyAs, that's about it. You're going to need to be more active or you'll get lynched. bumatlarge - You have been doing well so far. You have expressed your thoughts - such as wanting a mayor who didn't have a clue pointed at them, you've pointed a couple places where you think the best place for the lynch to go, and you appear to be putting a good deal of thought into your process. New mafia players who don't know what to say would do well to follow this player's pattern. There's nothing extensive in the way he's analyzing, he's just voicing what is on his mind. Thegilaboy - You helped collect some clues and you expressed that you don't like that I'm overeager, but beyond this you havn't provided much substance. You're not on the short list, but I'd like to hear more about what is on your mind about the game at large. Zyrre - I havn't seen a lot of substance coming from here, either. You've made a few posts, but you havn't said a whole lot. Like others who have posted but without substance, talk more about who you suspect and who you feel are pro town. DCLXVI - You've expressed a fair number of thoughts. Definitely on the middle of the road in my opinion. You aligned with me fairly early, expressed suspicion in DTA, and noted TyranoS as a good lynch target. Express more of how you feel about everyone and you'll make a great active player. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 05 2010 13:08 LunarDestiny wrote: For detective: If your result shows mafia role, keep it to yourself. If your result shows town role, you can use him to be your spoke person (there is a small chance that the person is godfather which shows up as townie in checks). Something to note here. Never die silently with hard information. If you rolecheck someone as mafia but get killed the following night without having said anything, it's really bad for town. There are a few tactics to avoid this. One is to put the information in code into one of your posts, then give someone you trust the code. If your first rolecheck is mafia and you have no one that you absolutely trust, it's still probably worth picking out and trusting whomever you think is most likely to be town. In this way, if you are killed, the person with the code can 'codeclaim', point at the code, point out the mafia, and get townie credit all in one fell swoop, making the DT death have at least gained some value. Of course if you misjudged and ended up giving your code to mafia, you just gave a mafia townie credit - but they had to throw one of their own under the bus to get it. There are other ways to get your info out as well with varying risks and rewards, this was just one example. If you find someone to be town, remember that just because you roleclaim to them does not mean they'll necessarily trust you. If you roleclaim to me, I'd give you targets and take your information with a grain of salt at the outset. But as the game progresses it will become clearer who is truthful and who is lying, and once your claim is shown true, I'll be able to take all the information you've given me at 100%. It should be similar for any other townie. The problem gets even more complicated as if a townie comes forward as a spokesperson for you, they're painting a big target on their head for the mafia to kill as well - the mafia don't want confirmed townies running around.either. So as a DT, it can often be best to spread information quietly. Maybe you'll make a guess that a couple people are town and just give them all your results so that if you turn up dead they'll be able to come out with the info you found throughout your life (or maybe since one was mafia, the other will - but then you get into trouble with people tending to not believe the one townie claim). The biggest point in all this is to not let your information ever go to the grave. Find a way to leave a trail. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
Therefore, I propose the following requirements to all posters: You must post your thoughts on at least four different people each day. Give reasoning (this is important). These thoughts must be spaced out such that two of these posts must be at least 12 hours apart. That is to say you can talk about 3 people at one point, then just sometime later in the day you have to give thoughts on another person. This is a bare minimum requirement. I encourage people who really are town to go ahead and post as much of their thoughts as they are willing. It is also important that you post as much original thought as you can. Since this is not something easily judged, I'm not putting it in the above requirements. However the mafia will be forced to conceal their intentions in some way - and one of the easiest ways they could choose to do so is to just parrot the thoughts that others have already expressed. So if you're town, don't do this! You may agree with their thoughts and voice that you do so agree, just don't count it as one of your four thoughts for the day. The consequence for failure to meet this policy will be that you will be eligible to be hung solely on the basis of your inactivity. In this early game, we will often not have great scum targets. If everyone were to talk a lot, we might have some decent reads on folk. Furthermore, we'd have more information in the mid to late game from all of this early talk to figure out who is mafia. Please discuss your thoughts on this policy. This is something the town has to agree upon since people are lynched by majority vote. I think it is clear how this policy will have a long term effect of benefiting town. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 06 2010 01:12 LaXerCannon wrote: What would you like me to do then ? I just thought I'd do something before I went to sleep or I'd be hounded more for being inactive. LaXerCannon, I think your posting at the start of the night phase with analysis is fine. It isn't intrinsically suspicious. To the point, however, it does not excuse your day 1 inactivity - this is still highly suspect. Just post more (as you have already said you will). | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
These are the people who I would deem clearly worthy of hanging based on inactivity: CompX Deucegladlier Icysoul jiabung LaXerCannon Misder supernovamaniac TyranoS_NiveK Note that it's not worth wasting a lynch on someone totally inactive and thus at risk of modkill, so Icysoul (and LaXerCannon - though he posted right at the end) got a pass, so to speak. Obviously we also hung jiabung, but there's still a lot of people on this list. Note that supernovamaniac and icysoul each have a warning for failure to vote. These are people I feel could be considered for hanging based on inactivity. Note that some of these players have posted several times on day 1, but if you read through them you can see that there was little substance. There is a little bit, but if we were to allow everyone to put so little into their posts, we would all be slain by the mafia long before we would have enough information to figure out who they are. ElyAs Hugoboss21 littlechava Zyrre TheGilaboy pyro0ma5ta sputnik.theory deconduo Let me just impress that I don't particularly think that any of these people are townie or scum. The problem is that they need to talk more about their thoughts of the game and other people so that there are no shadows for the mafia to hide in. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
I don't see why the 12 hour thing is a challenge. You have a 48 hour window. This means you could post at hour 0 and hour 40 and you'd be fine. Or you could post at hour 24 and hour 36. It doesn't much matter to me. I'm sure almost everyone here has a job/school/regular obligations. Over the course of 48 hours you should be able to find two times to post. The purpose of the 12 hour policy is to prevent someone from sitting down and posting once (or in one sitting nearly back to back) in the entire 48 hours. I want to hear your impressions at different times in the day (at least twice). Does this make more sense? | ||
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If actives get killed by mafia while we lynch inactives, we're going to come up short at the end and not have enough info to root out the red If we protect the actives, the mafia have to either choose to hit actives with higher KP (reducing the number of kills), get blocked (reducing the number of kills), or target inactives. All of these cases are beneficial to us because it either slows down the mafia kill rate, giving us more time to figure things out, or it gets us to a state of game where we're no longer lynching people for being inactive so that we should have enough information that we can get some good reads. | ||
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On June 06 2010 02:20 LunarDestiny wrote: stuff about TL posts vs mafia posts + Show Spoiler + It is really hard to analyze people who haven't posted a lot. They maybe be mafia so they are less inactive or they just don't care much about the game. A huge difference between this and other mafia games is there are more new players and less veteran players. So the categories for "I don't care about mafia war and so I would be active" is much higher than in other mafia games. I use a somewhat weak checking method to see if they are really inactive or a mafia who is inactive because they don't want to draw attention. My method is to look at how many posts they made the last week and compare it to number of post and quality of post they made in this game. If the number of post they made last week hugely out number the number of post they made in this game, then there is a possibility that they are mafia and tries not draw attention. One drawback of this rule is there are people who post a lot (a huge number for the post they made last week) but just don't care about this game. AcrossFiveJuly fits the description of I post a lot but not on this thread. post last week: 33 post in the game: 3 Then there are numerous inactives who just doesn't post on TL at all therefore making them less likely be to mafia. I like the idea you have here. Definitely wouldn't take it as gospel, but it's probably worth as much as any clue we havn't confirmed. Keep digging. | ||
YellowInk
United States578 Posts
On June 06 2010 02:24 Zyrre wrote: Another thing to consider is that when we do get mafia kills, the EARLY suspicions will basically always be confirmed townies. Later suspicions could just as well be mafias trying to get credit as townies by jumping on the bandwagon. I would be wary of this. I think it really depends more on the situation in which they are posting rather than whether it was an early game suspicion vs a late game suspicion. Mafia by their very nature will have to tend to cast doubt more on townies than on their own in order to sway public opinion, but it doesn't require that it must happen earlier vs later in the game. It is this sort of reasoning that led me to point DTA to jiabung rather than TyranoS, for example. The suspicion that was cast out in the early game costed those players nothing, so if they were mafia they could help deflect suspicion towards Tyranos rather than jiabung. It's really only a small margin of improved odds, though. | ||
YellowInk
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On June 06 2010 02:29 Ace wrote: I'm guessing since I'm not playing it would be wrong to give Detectives advice right? Hey detectives, do your homework. Go read games where Ace was a detective. | ||
YellowInk
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On June 06 2010 02:32 LunarDestiny wrote: I don't think the idea of analyze requirement per 24 hours is good idea. They about who will follow this requirement. 1)pro town who cares about the game. They can satisfy the requirement easily. 2)mafia who cares about the game. Also should have no problem satisfying the requirement. 3)mafia who does not care about the game. They may force themselves to meet the requirement because others will be pressuring them and mafia tends to care more about the game than pro town who gets a shiity role (vanilla townie). 4)Then there is the pro town who does not care about the game. They won't bother catching up with the thread and won't bother to meet the requirement of in depth analysis. (jiabung who we lynches falls in this category.) First let me clarify for you that it's not per 24 hours, it's per day. (this was clear since there was even discussion about this among several of us already) You need to think the policy through to its logical conclusion. Suppose for the sake of argument we allow the people in class 4 to continue playing. Suppose instead in the early game we choose to lynch people because they appear to be the most suspicious - even though we don't have that much info on them. In these sorts of situations, especially among players who are less experienced, people who talk more bring more heat on themselves - whether through perhaps errors or flaws in logic (I think a few people I came after on day 1 can attest to this) or because they're supposedly too hotheaded (I don't know anyone who lands in this category this game, but hey, it could happen). The mafia would have a very simple strategy to win: shut up. Townies have lost games because they have gone rabid on each other (especially so in the mid game) because the mafia just fall silent or just parrot others' thoughts and no one noticed. We cannot allow this to pass. If people are townie and inactive because they don't care about the game, they suck. They're ruining the game for the rest of us. It's actually far worse for the game if a mafia is inactive because mafia losing 1 imbalances the game FAR more than town losing 1. That's why there's a modkill & ban policy in place for those who are completely inactive. For those who are mostly inactive, they may be trying to skate by to avoid the ban. These people also suck. There's no way to really enforce a fair out of game policy on these people. Because of this we have to account for it in game. Hence the policy. If you care about the game, you'll be active. It really doesn't take that much time to meet the policy requirements I've put up. This is a new player game, so we will have more inactives than a typical game around here might. It's just something we'll have to deal with, but we can't allow mafia the option of the 'shut up' strategy. It's way too easy for them to win like that. | ||
YellowInk
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On June 06 2010 03:10 sputnik.theory wrote: I've noticed that a quite a few players (including me) have been called out for not posting too much on day1 and in our defence, I'd just like to point out that there's only so much that can be said at the start of the game. I'll be posting more as the game develops and there's actually things to talk about. Idk sputnik, I've had an awful lot to say. I believe all of it to be reasonable and worth having said. I think most people would agree that most of the things I say are good and beneficial to the town. If I can come up with this much, anyone should be able to come up with what I requested in my policy. Mafia is a game of thoroughly imperfect information. Worry less about what you're not sure about and talk more about the little bits that you see. | ||
YellowInk
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On June 06 2010 03:35 sputnik.theory wrote: Yink, no offense but half your posts up to now can be summed up as VOTE FOR YINK. That being said, you've also posted plenty of information that others have found useful and I'm not trying to take away from that. I'm just not really interested in the early stages of a game as much what comes later and I'm trying to play in a way that will help me get to lategame so I can help make sure town wins. Why should I paint a target on my back for mafia by being a hyper active townie so early on? Especially when I don't feel like the insight I could offer at this point in the game would be as authoritative as others who've played this game before? Because if you really are a townie, your victory condition isn't to survive to the end, it's to get a townie win. Yes, actives are more likely to get targetted by mafia. You don't need to be hyper active, you just need to be active. Your insight doesn't need to be authoritative, it just needs to be voiced. If you're not posting anything of substance, you're helping the mafia because it creates a cloak under which they can hide. Mafia can do the same and then just point to you (and anyone else who does the same) and we have no way to make a good hanging. | ||
YellowInk
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For instance, if you're a medic, you can tell us who you are protecting (or agree to a target we might suggest). Based on how many kills we see, how many vigs we sent out, interactions with potential hits on a given target, it can help us confirm the truth of your claim. Nothing is 100% since mafia could relinquish a kill to try to lend credit to your claim, but this is a win for town anyhow since they're reducing their kills. If you're a DT, you can feed us who you are investigating (or agree to targets we suggest) and the resultant information. If you tell us player A is a townie, then the following night player A gets killed, it lends credit to your roleclaim far more than if you roleclaimed that you knew player A was a townie after he's already dead. Same deal though, nothing is 100%, but it's very risky for a mafia to try to claim player A is a townie before killing them since they could turn up as a blue role or a miller. | ||
YellowInk
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On June 06 2010 03:56 crate wrote: Just going to weigh in on the activity thing proposed by our dear Pardoner: It only holds any weight if you threaten to lynch inactives and then follow through. However, in doing so, you're costing the town in this game. Mafia can continue to do the bare minimum pretty easily and have much more incentive to do so than town does, so I think that if the town is lucky we'll get one mafioso dead from not posting enough to meet the requirements, tops. We'll have more material on the less-active mafia this way, sure--they'll be posting at least twice a day instead of once, and it'll have some substance--but we won't have the lynches to punish them for it because I will guarantee not every town-aligned player is going to post enough (not in this game, at least. Perhaps in a game where we're pretty sure that everyone will be active), so we'll have to drop the hammer on those townies. If you don't lynch people who don't post enough, then this makes some townies and the mafia post more actively on day 2, then they realize there's no teeth to the threat and they can stop and likely some of them will. As a metagaming play, I think it's okay. Keep doing it, and eventually it'll pay off because there will be activity from everyone (the assumption here is that people who sign up know that this is the standard etc.). I don't think it'll help the town in this individual game though. I'll go random up some numbers if you want me to look at some people tonight/on day 2. I'll catch up later on the rest, but I wanted to offer my thoughts on this now. I understand your thoughts on the metagameyness (this is an awesome word) of the play, but this is not my goal. I can say that I will always play each and every game within the spirit of the game. If we need metagaming adjustments, it should be done in the balance of roles or policy regarding the game rather than player attitudes within the game. That being said, it is not my intention to continuously lynch inactives. Specifically I want the teeth of this policy to come out when we do not appear to have an otherwise decent target. This is most likely to occur on day 2 and possibly day 3. However, I could see this policy getting invoked on day 6 if we come to a stalemate when someone says, "Hey look, Player B sure got quiet since day 4, why is that?" Hitting an inactive in a stalemate could be better than lynching someone in this instance - it really all just depends on what kind of information we have. It would never get priority over scummy play. | ||
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On June 06 2010 04:23 MTF wrote: Though I won't quite say "post or you suck", I will join YellowInk in begging for activeness amongst town. The 'you suck' is for all the people who join a game, see they're townie (and have no role), then post to avoid bans because they're bored. I don't think that's necessarily why our inactives are inactive, I was just pointing out that people who play this way are parasitic to the game. | ||
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On June 06 2010 04:08 crate wrote: If you're offering it up as a guideline, that's fine. It's a good guideline. It's mostly more of the same ("it's good for the town if people post, so everyone should post" ... which is true) with the additional idea to look at 4 people per day if it's a guideline though. I read it as being offered more as an ultimatum, which is where the metagaming comes in and where it most likely hurts the town this game. I posed it like one might pose a law. It's enforcement will always depend on the situation. For instance, highway speed limits around where I live are 55 miles per hour. Is an officer going to pull you over for going 60? Probably not, but maybe. Depends on if they've hit their quota for the month, their mood, and if someone else is speeding by you at 75. The request for thoughts on 4 people per day spread out in at least two posts was a clear benchmark that all new players should be able to hit. If everyone were to do this, we'd probably be able to get decent enough reads that we could find the red. If someone only posts 3 are they going to get autohung? Of course not - but I wouldn't be averse to hanging them if we didn't have any better targets. It is my hope that people would do more than this, but this policy sets a clear expectation so that someone can't go back and say, "I thought I was being active enough!" | ||
YellowInk
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On June 06 2010 04:34 DarthThienAn wrote: Vanilla Town is one of the most important roles in the game. The mafia already know who's innocent and who's not innocent. It's the town's job to figure out who's innocent/not innocent. As a townie, you need to make sure all of us know that you are innocent. If you don't do that then you're, again, hurting the town. Man. I wonder how many times I'm going to have to repeat myself. I just try to pose it in different words each time. | ||
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On June 06 2010 05:22 LunarDestiny wrote: Good point but you might want to take account that I will be one of the target and I am no medic or detective. Maybe they won't target me... Actually, if you're a green townie, you want to make yourself a target enticing for the mafia to kill if you can simply because having a green go down is less damaging to the town than having a blue go down. This is, of course, assuming that all the town players are equally skilled. Obviously the best way to go is to be able to predict who the mafia will hit so the medics just block them. | ||
YellowInk
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On June 06 2010 11:30 LunarDestiny wrote: Oh yeah, I forgot to explain why I wished barth that he can live past day 1. In the last game I played with him (Three Kingdom Mafia). He (as Diao Chan) also died on the first night. So I wished that the same thing doesn't happened to him. Poor guy =\ Alright, well lets get to clue sniffing! I can see half a dozen links just based on information we had dug up from the last round. | ||
YellowInk
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To the medic that blocked the hit, feel free to claim to myself, DTA, and/or to whom you protected. This is only good for night 1 since vigs couldn't make a hit tonight. A note to the town at large - while this will provide evidence to whomever claims to be hit (assuming there is no argument and only one comes forward) that they are town, it's not 100% as the mafia could choose to decline a hit for just this purpose. But it'll be awfully good evidence. | ||
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On June 05 2010 02:04 ElyAs wrote: Okay, made up my mind for the voting, I'm gonna vote for Darth because I think I can trust him for now. I agree that YellowInk and Darth are likely to be non-mafia, but remember that this game is a game of trust and deception. Question everything, even what the ones that were looking town-oriented in the beginning say (hell, even the guy that is coming at you with that kind of advice. It's totally normal to suspect the one that is telling you how to play ) However, don't see ghosts everywhere. When someone is making a strange move once, it doesn't always mean he is scum. Just write it down on your spreadsheet/memory/whatever and try to make him justify his move. We will win this game as townies by speaking a lot and analyze whatever the others say. Even you with the vanilla townie role ! This game can be fun for everyone ! Well, these were my thoughts for now. In my digging, this may have been what got ElyAs killed. Note that it implies that he might not be vanilla. An excellent mafia target choice. | ||
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On June 06 2010 11:55 MooCow wrote: Well the ninja/stealth like suspects from the profiles are: TheGilaboy http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/flamewheel/TL_Mafia_XXVI/1_TheGilaboy.jpg zeks http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/flamewheel/TL_Mafia_XXVI/14_zeks.jpg TyranoS_NiveK http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/flamewheel/TL_Mafia_XXVI/18_TyranoS_NiveK.jpg I see the connection with Zeks - he has a ninja in his profile. It's why he came up before. Why is TheGilaboy included? Isn't that just a zealot on the left? On the right I'm not so sure what it is. And the same with TyranoS_NiveK, that's just a zealot. | ||
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Ah, I see. I have been out-geeked. I thought DTs had scythes not straight blades. | ||
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On June 06 2010 12:21 LunarDestiny wrote: What we really need is the person who was protected to step out. Please don't tell who protected you even if you know. For the detectives who role checked and the result is pro town, you have the option to use that person as your spoke person (it is very unlikely you got the godfather) Careful, it's not the first time you've said that. People might think you're the godfather. Regardless, there is one godfather in this game. We're going to encounter him sooner or later so it's worth always being on guard. Personally, if I were a DT and I found a townie on my first rolecheck, if I weren't confiding in the mayor or pardoner, I probably wouldn't tell anyone. When I found a second townie I'd tell them both I was the DT and leave a broken code between multiple people for if I got knocked off. This makes it harder for the mafia to just immediately kill the DT if one of them were the godfather - or if they do, the godfather gets revealed and lynched. | ||
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On June 06 2010 22:06 Zyrre wrote: I'll try to post more so the town doesn't have to waste time investigating me simply because of inactivity, but it's harder to post a lot when the majority of the discussion is taking place during my sleeping hours. This goes for everyone of course. You don't need to post when other people are posting. Just put your thoughts out there. Point fingers, defend people, analyze clues, tell us what is on your mind. | ||
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Unfortunately, many of the people who were mostly inactive before are still mostly or completely inactive now. So lets work with my night 1 list minus people who have picked up a bit: CompX Deucegladlier TyranoS_NiveK &LaXerCannon &Misder *Icysoul *supernovamaniac Among these, LaXerCannon and Misder have posted a few times since (though all things considered, we need a lot more from them to make up for near total inactivity day 1), so lets eliminate them for now. The * are under warning for inaction and may be modkilled tonight. If they speak up, they better speak LOUDLY and talk about what they think of this game. That leaves us with three serious inactives - people who have posted/voted to avoid modkill but havn't provided any substance. From what little we DO know of these three, what do you all think? | ||
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On June 07 2010 04:57 Thegilaboy wrote: And Deucegladier, you just voted for yourself in the lynching thread, any particular reason for that? I had earlier suggested that if you wish to abstain, just vote for yourself. Perhaps he is going to put up another no substance post and call it a day. | ||
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On June 07 2010 05:16 YellowInk wrote: I had earlier suggested that if you wish to abstain, just vote for yourself. Perhaps he is going to put up another no substance post and call it a day. Sorry, missed that he already did just post a no substance post. | ||
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So assuming none of these people decide to step up and play, who do we like to target? CompX Deucegladlier TyranoS_NiveK | ||
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My vote is on Deucegladlier unless he convinces me he wants to play or someone shows up as a scum target. | ||
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On June 07 2010 07:39 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: I know there have been a few accusations thrown out at me lately; I'll address those in my next post. But I want to emphasize the shit out of this post by yellowink. Do not put 100% trust in MTF. This could easily be a ploy by the mafia to draw blues by PM and get MTF into the mayor/pardoner circle (if there is one). I think we should trust MTF to be town, but not trust him enough to have the blues PM him. I specifically asked the medic who covered MTF to come forward and tell MTF (and/or me). If no medic covered MTF, well, there's no one to come forward. I did not ask anyone and everyone to roleclaim to MTF, no worries. | ||
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On June 07 2010 07:55 littlechava wrote: I guess voting for deucegladlier is a good idea then, since he clearly doesn't care about the game? Shame if he's a townie, but he's useless either way :\ I've already said it, but I think Hugoboss21 falls into the inactive category and should be added to YellowInk's list of Tyranos/deucegladlier/CompX for possible lynch targets. I would agree with this, and should Deucegladlier decide to speak up and provide insight and substance, I could be convinced Hugoboss21 is as good of a target as the other two for inactivity. | ||
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On June 07 2010 07:27 zeks wrote: I'm not for the double lynch used right now - judging from YI/DTA's posts I kind of doubt the DTs have roleclaimed to them yet (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) and their posts haven't convinced me that they've really discovered too much outside of what the majority town doesn't know already. Are the PMs different for a vet being hit or a medic save? The reason I suggested the double lynch is not because I have some special information. It's because the faster we can get to a state where there are no inactives, the faster we can be hammering folk about the inconsistancies in their stories without any shadows for them to just hide in. I suspect we will have plenty of 'good' lynch targets tomorrow even if there are no obvious scum. Then we can get on with the game. It is my hope that we would have info for at least one scum (maybe two if a DT happened to hit two scum in their rolechecks and came forward?) while still maintaining pressure on inactives to get in the game. | ||
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The reason I am voting for Deuce is not because I specifically want him dead. As crate so succinctly put it, the way he is playing is a way that is only beneficial if he is mafia. The vote is to put heat on him so that if he is town, he will turn from his mafia-like ways and play like a townie should. Furthermore, if he is a good mafia, he will post just to stay alive to get the bandwagon off of him - but I expect some seriously good content out of him to shift once the weight is on him. His teammates may have to help him out with that. If he chooses to continue without posting, he will hang, since this strategy is only effective if you are mafia. If he posts substance, we can shift the wagon to another inactive - we seem to have plenty. And as a warning to the other inactives (especially those I've already listed), if you don't want it shifting to you after Deuce posts, you better post now, because there probably won't be time to shift it to a third target. So to all the townsfolk, go ahead and vote. You can always shift it later. This will help hammer the point home that you will not tolerate people playing with Deuce's current style - hopefully (though this is very optimistic) without spilling any more innocent blood. | ||
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On June 07 2010 12:35 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: Does anyone else find this exchange very strange? So... MTF states this scenario as a possibility, then claims to be hit the next night. sputnik comes up with a very interesting and plausible scenario, then MTF states that it's a "ridiculously convoluted scheme" even though he mentioned it as a possibility earlier. I would hardly call that a "ridiculously convoluted" scheme, since all that happened is he hinted at the possibility of such a scheme existing and then may have gone through with it (it's actually a smart scheme). I find sputnik's theory very interesting, as it matches perfectly with clues in a subtle way and explains a very improbable occurrence (successful medic protect on first night). Note that MTF has not claimed to have been contacted by a medic but did say that it was a medic who saved him. The best thing MTF could have done is keep his mouth shut about whether a medic was protecting him or not. Then, the mafia would not know whether their hit was blocked because he is a veteran or medic protected. MTF should know this as a seasoned mafia player. Does this seem strange to anyone else? The problem with this is the risk vs reward. Suppose a DT checks out MTF and finds him to be mafia. If that is an accurate connection, it could be a very swift triple lynching. All of this at risk just to get MTF some evidence of looking like town. Of course keep the idea in mind for later in the game when we find out such things, but I'm inclined to believe MTF. | ||
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While all of us continue to vote for Deucegladlier, by all means, lets discuss the other targets' merits and faults. People like CompX, Hugoboss21, and TyranoS_NiveK are on the block for inactivity - but there's also a number of people who have gotten a lot quieter on day 2 after an ok day 1... | ||
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On June 07 2010 23:29 zeks wrote: Are we going to keep lynching inactives until there are no more? If deuce flips green we should really rethink that...we only have so many lynches and so much time On June 07 2010 23:37 pyr0ma5ta wrote: My point exactly. Incidentally, can someone enlighten me as to why we all gave our elected blues free passes? I'm still not convinced. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=28#551 | ||
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On June 08 2010 00:07 pyr0ma5ta wrote: I recognize this point. I've already stated that I don't have a major problem with lynching Deuce this round. And yeah, don't bother using a pardon on him if it gets to that. But my point about why our blues get free passes, I'd like to ask the town at large. Why does everyone seem to trust YellowInk and Darth implicitly? I assure you, not everyone trusts either Darth or myself implicitly. People either agree with our logic or they don't. If they do, they follow our plans. If not, they voice their dissent and perhaps the plan is revised. No one has provided a better argument than I have against Deuce, so that is where the town is leaning. I don't expect you to vote for him because 'you don't have a major problem with it'. You should make your vote count. Keep in mind that mafia will attempt to instill a sort of 'groupthink' attitude so that they can sway a large number of people with their small numbers. The difference between my or DTA calling on the town vs mafia covertly trying to sway the town is that a number of people have placed their faith in us. If you disagree with anything I say, by all means, counter the argument. Even if you believe I'm town 100%, that doesn't mean you believe I'm perfect. | ||
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Thus, Deuce remains the best target until we have a scum target that is more than merely moderately suspicious. | ||
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On June 08 2010 00:26 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: YellowInk, did you read MooCow's post history carefully? I hardly think so since you posted only 6 minutes after you could have read my post. I'd appreciate it if you read his history and then tell me what you think in more detail. I keep a summary of post histories and opinions each player has of others in an excel spreadsheet. It took me just a couple seconds to trace what you were saying. I don't disagree with most of your analysis, but it still leaves Deuce as a much better target. | ||
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On June 08 2010 02:27 DarthThienAn wrote: @AFJ/whoever: The major problem I see with trying to lynch MooCow at this point is that we have like 8.5 hours left to vote. I'd rather lynch an inactive town-possible-mafia than lynch no one. There are currently 12 votes on Deuce (3 on Thegilaboy, 1 on MooCow). That's not even enough for him get lynched RIGHT NOW. We still need 2 more votes, and that's with me being mayor. Actually, 1 vote is enough to lynch someone so long as it was the first vote, no one has multiple votes, and no one has more than 1 vote on them. The rules here is target with the most votes hangs (tie goes to whoever was rallied up first). We don't need a majority. That being said, since everyone is (supposedly) eventually going to vote, this could easily be swung away from Deuce. I hope that others who are voting late see the logic of not allowing people to evade posting requirements. If we allow this, we'll just lose. Also remember that bare-minimum posting mafia still contribute to mafia KP even though they're basically doing nothing else in game. | ||
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On June 08 2010 03:34 MooCow wrote: pyr0ma5ta gets banned after my posts on him -_-; What bans? | ||
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On June 08 2010 03:55 DarthThienAn wrote: Well yea, but what I meant is that I don't see any mention of how lynching works other than right there. @pyro getting banned: pretty strategic if all but 1 of the mafia got themselves tempbanned for 2 days. lolol. I expect pyr0 to continue reading and will owe us deep analysis when he comes back to make up for his lost time. Just like I expect more from some of the people who didn't say much on day 1 to be doing double duty today or they'll make it onto my short list tonight. Also, if they made a habit of this, it'd get really obvious. | ||
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On June 08 2010 05:16 BrownBear wrote: Im pretty sure at this point that Deuce knows hes boned, so he's not even trying. It might be strategic to switch our vote off of him to someone else, and see what his/other peoples' reactions are... Also, lol@pyro. Eh, I disagree. All we've asked of Deuce is to post something of substance. If he does and it's not just a c/p of ideas everyone else has presented, I'd be glad to swap over to another inactive. Sure, we might not make it in time, but Deuce definitely still has a shot at living. | ||
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On June 08 2010 05:21 YellowInk wrote: Oh, hi Hugoboss21. Voting but no post? Better be hearing from you within the next few minutes. This goes for you too, bumatlarge. You're not in as bad shape as Hugoboss21, but I'd recommend (to everyone) to post right before posting your vote with your explanation. That way none of us are ever left hanging with, "hey why did that guy vote like that?" | ||
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On June 08 2010 06:01 bumatlarge wrote: Come on yellow ive posted my reasons earlier even if i didnt explain my vote you could have found that out. i wouldnt be peeved by this but you are poking around forcing posts that are just as useful as inactivity. im at work with little time to scope out and reflect on what everyone says in the thread in posts :/ i make my posts after the 10pm deadline because its most conveintant for me. if that casts your neurotic suspicions on me, then so be it. but yeah people shouldnt vote without any indication of reason for that day Haha, not neurotic. I'm not casting any suspicion at you, but votes should be accompanied by a post as a rule. Having a voting thread is kind of weird to flip back and forth to see is kind of weird, but it makes the mod's job a lot easier. It's true, though, that I havn't been voicing my thoughts on people so much and rather just been policing inactivity. I'm headed out in under an hour, but I'll put together some of my thoughts on a couple people. | ||
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LaXerCannon #posts: 29 Votes: DTA at the very end of day 1, TheGilaBoy near the beginning of day 2. What he posted: Opened up with "I'm back" at the end of day 1. Since then he has been active, confirming receiving a DTA PM. Apparantely the PM saved him from totally missing the game. He does some clue digging night 1 making a couple connections not previously made. He claims to be poor at analyzing behavior. Based on the clues, he names Hugoboss21 and DCLXVI as suspect, but admits that it's really not enough to consider accusations. On day 2 he does some more clue digging looking to make more new connections. He then provides an analysis of TheGilaBoy.+ Show Spoiler + He from here on names TheGilaBoy as his primary suspect - enough to take his vote rather than going for DeuceGladlier (though he does not begrudge the Deuce votes). He voices against being against the double lynch as he wants to wait until we have two stronger suspects. He continues to attack TheGilaBoy citing the particular clue link makes him a strong target rather than the others who had weaker links. He claims reverse common logic on DeuceGladier stating that if Deuce defends himself it'll look more mafia than if he says nothing. My thoughts: I read pro town on him. He needs to keep up this level of activity. His clue digging has been helpful, but I think he puts too much weight into it at this time. I will put a lot more credit into clues when we can stack them on a target rather than just trying to hang off of a single link. Alternatively, if a DT confirmed a clue I would hang on that as well - but there's the additional element of believing the DT here. My advice to LaXerCannon: Keep clue digging, but keep an open mind. Keep your activity level up. It's fine if you don't feel strong at behavior analysis, but go ahead and give it a shot anyway. | ||
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I think that the info on MooCow is insufficient to hang him at this time. Hanging MooCow and finding him town will make a couple people look bad, but not so badly that we could justify hanging them for it. Turning MooCow up red will similarly not implicate anyone all that strongly. Compare this to DeuceGladlier. This is an inactive poster - a strike against him because if we allow posters like this to remain in the game, other posters who may be mafia (eg Hugoboss21, CompX, etc) will have no incentive to post. Deuce may turn up green, but by the very nature that so many people are against hanging this target I am inclined to believe him more likely to be red than when I first voted for him. If he does turn up red, it's going to look very poorly on some people - strongly enough that we may have a real case. Even if it were only randomly likely that Deuce was mafia, he's still the way to go. If we allow this game to be decided by random chance (which is what happens when noone posts), the mafia win the vast majority of games. | ||
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MooCow is going to give us more information. Tomorrow, the next day, whatever. This will allow us to continue to read him. If we don't lynch Deuce today, are we just going to trust him to be green for the rest of the game if he stays silent? I sure wouldn't ask a DT to burn a rolecheck on Deuce. I would rather be in an endgame with MooCow than Deuce. At least I have something to read. | ||
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On June 08 2010 13:46 Zyrre wrote: Shouldn't all mafias have tried to vote for and convince the town to lynch MooCow? If deuce is a mafia, they obviously would rather have MooCow lynched. If deuce is townie, they would still rather have MooCow since he was more active. Less activity makes it easier for them to lurk and hide. Now they most likely wouldn't risk to start the bandwagon, but rather jump on it later. Those who voted for MooCow were: AcrossFiveJulys DCLXVI Misder BrownBear zeks sputnik.theory onihunter DarthThienAn (x3) LunarDestiny That's a fairly short list considering there are 6 mafias. Can't be completely certain they are all in there obviously, but starting with these guys should be the best option. Definitely a good place to start. I'd recommend doing player analysis ala crate to help collect info. Once we have it all in front of us it should be easier to sort through. Also, if any DTs are looking for work and want to avoid crossing paths with the investigations of others, my door is still open to roleclaims. | ||
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On June 09 2010 01:54 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: Should we be encouraging our vigi(s) to hit specific targets tonight? Hopefully we've got at least one left (usually 2-3 per game right?). I'm not sure but I'm leaning towards asking them to hold off until night 3 since we have no solid suspects (well, except deuce and a few other inactives), but having a discussion now wouldn't hurt. Asking a vigi to make a hit is like an immediate double lynch. If we weren't ready for that yesterday, how can we even consider it at this juncture where we have no significant leads? Unless you think that by leading the derailing bandwagon it should be on your head? I don't really follow your logic. | ||
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TheGilaboy # posts: 40 What he says: Opens up the game with some clue digging. Is wary of voting me in for being eager nad Darth because of LD's fast vote. Wants to hear more policy talk and considered voting for someone at random. Eventually becomes convinced I am pro town because of my massive posting. Defends deconduo's post timing because he is in Ireland. Calls out Misder for his random vote on BrownBear. Calls out Deucegladlier for lurking late in day 1. Night 1 he defends that he hasn't posted much substance (my callout on him) because he is noob and claims will try to be more vocal while noting that he is more trusting of DTA and I. Corrects pyr0ma5ta's burnatlarge to bumatlarge. Asks questions about how mafia stacking kills works. Agrees with ideas of people to remain wary and vigilant, but not overly aggressive. Questions why LD is painting a target on his back. On day 2 he goes clue digging noting that he doesn't think much blood would stay on a psi/warp blade. Recommends a clue check on himself as he doesn't know any other way to defend himself. Agrees with me that CompX/Deucegladlier/Tyranos_NiveK are inactive. Agrees with targetting inactives. Analyzes MooCow, pyr0ma5ta, and CompX + Show Spoiler + basically saying he wants to hear more from all of them. My thoughts: I read slightly pro town in his posting style, but only just barely leaning. To be honest, his posting style has continued to lack substance - unfortunately the analysis of the players he chose (by RNG he claimed) two were very inactive, the third so so. It's hard to get much insight from this. His defense is that he is new to the game. My advice to TheGilaboy: Post more substance. Be less afraid of being wrong and instead be more interactive and aggressive. Provoke reactions. | ||
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On June 09 2010 11:11 DarthThienAn wrote: Yeah, this was actually my secret method of keeping you alive for at least another day =] =) LD is such a good sport. | ||
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Is there anyone besides 3L that this clue set can be tied to? I agree it looks really bad for 3L and I would probably lynch based on this, I just want to be sure all our ducks are in line. Also, what killed pyr0? Anyone have any ideas? My first thought is a jellyfish (hah). | ||
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Obviously you can't defend against the clues directly. Instead you could see where else the clues point to and make cases. Furthermore, talk about who you think is suspicious, who you think is town. Any info you might have you need to give up and not take it to the grave (at least tomorrow before hanging). In these ways you will provide evidence that you are town. If you fail to do this, I believe you will be hung regardless of what I have to say about it. If you get hung anyway, we will at least have your thoughts and any info you might have had that we can give it credit because you were hung as town. | ||
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Too bad it's strict day/night schedule for you, onihunter - can't drive a bandwagon into making it a short day. With respect to my commentary on onihunter's playing and what it might reveal that he is red, honestly not all that much. He remained mostly neutral with respect to most people - leaning only slightly this way or that. One could argue his 'hardon' for crate makes him more likely to be red, but it was still just day1 stuff. I think the best thing we can pull from it is that it's likely that LaXerCannon is town since onihunter named him as a best target for lynch. Most else he said was just 'oh I lean a bit this way or that' on someone which he could easily backpedal out of without effort and without starting any real attacks on anyone. | ||
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On June 10 2010 10:28 LunarDestiny wrote: Not saying that those who voted late are mafia. Just want to point out that mafia members are not likely to vote on their member if a solid bandwagon hasn't been formed. Nah, there's really not much to be gleaned because the bandwagon was initiated by an accusal backed by someone regarded heavily pro town claiming a decent source had night information. This means that even if the source was found to be false, we hit a scum in the end anyhow. The only reason to have any suspect of it at all is if 3L is mafia and the mafia are trying to derail (largely pre-emptively) a bandwagon on 3L in hopes that the 3L case can be defended more effectively tomorrow. In this case perhaps onihunter could be town and some unknown mafia is sacrificing themselves (and expects also to defend themselves tomorrow against DTA's accusation). Except onihunter has roleclaimed mafia so all this conspiracy theory can just be tossed out. Nothing to see here. Nothing to be gained from voting recs. | ||
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On June 10 2010 11:11 onihunter wrote: or on gift cards, know what I mean? eh wut wut the awesome rolly gooey feeling when you roll them into a tiny ball just the right amnt of stickiness, not enough to be like an eww but enough to be like a "hey this feels nice" Only scum like you would have such a perverted mind. ^.~ | ||
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On June 10 2010 11:25 bumatlarge wrote: Or maybe a really sick mind would make that kind of connection, which leads me to believe YOU'RE REALLY THE + Show Spoiler + perverted one No you. | ||
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Stop trying to distract us from our extremely fruitful and well focused discussions that are rooting out the other mafia! There is scum and villainy at work here! | ||
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I would like to hear what people have to say about this list of suspicious people: BrownBear Littlechava Misder TheGilaboy Zeks Please do your analysis for today focused on these people. | ||
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But honestly, does anyone else really suspect MTF? If not, I'd rather focus on the five candidates that I posted because I havn't been hearing too much of people's opinions about them lately. This is excepting TheGilaboy - which I am curious what people think of him in light of recent events. | ||
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That is, unless you're ok with the mafia derailing another Deucegladlier or TheGilaboy bandwagon... | ||
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On June 11 2010 04:01 zeks wrote: ^ dont get what that is supposed to mean? You still think deuce is mafia? Idk, that bandwagon was pretty suspiciously derailed. What has you so convinced he's green? | ||
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DCLXVI Misder BrownBear zeks sputnik.theory onihunter For that matter, maybe the mafia were just hanging out over with TheGilaboy. Hard to say. What I do know is that among the people who stuck on Deuce the whole time, I'm pretty confident in most of them being town. It raises eyebrows when the folk you're less sure about are the ones all piled up on the other side of the vote. I don't really know what's going on here. I'm putting a call out to see if other people are seeing the same things I'm seeing. It could help narrow down who is with us and who isn't. Some of the mafia had to stay off of MooCow, though. It could be as few as 2 I'd say though without arousing too much suspicion. Even if we assume DTA to the good, that means we still don't have very reliable info to put out votes on - 3 targets remaining out of 5. However, between this idea and clues, maybe folk would be willing to give it a much closer look. Posting patterns help too. We need more people to talk and this day has been horribly short on conversation. We cannot be lax because we have a good kill today. | ||
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On June 11 2010 04:41 zeks wrote: Don't understand how you can be confident on the people who stuck on Deuce the whole time. If the whole night went by the book (AFJ w/o his epic post) 80% would've voted on deuce thus there would have to be mafia in the deuce list. I just want to note I never switched, my first vote was cast on MooCow not that it matters to most of you but I understand your suspicion YI (besides I've been suspicious to most of you since the beginning, don't know why though I think you guys should read over all my posts). As much as the voters near the middle on MooCow should be suspected, the ones on deuce should be too - so many of them are inactive/useless. Plus I always thought you were in support of lynching inactives first I think you misunderstand. I'm not confident of them because they stayed on Deuce but rather because of previous/current analysis. So the whole situation reeks when the people I am tending to trust are the people who stayed on Deuce while the people who I tend to not trust tended to be the people who were voting elsewhere. I am in support of lynching inactives first, but when a situation stinks to high heaven... our priorities are in lynching the mafia. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to lynch random people on the MooCow or TGb list. I want people to figure out what's going on here because something stinks and I showered this morning. | ||
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In the end you have to vote for someone. If it were down to 3 players and I had to pick between MTF or Deuce being green, I'd go with MTF and lynch Deuce every time and win the vast majority. | ||
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BrownBear Littlechava Misder TheGilaboy Zeks Our last five mafia? All town? | ||
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We need some town to start speaking up about these folk - the mafia are surely content to stay quiet. Once you get going, they'll have to present as well and this is where we profit. | ||
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I'm more curious if 3L was red. Hoping. It'd be nice if TyranoS_NiveK is red as well, but I don't count on that so much. | ||
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On June 12 2010 00:54 bumatlarge wrote: Mtf did post some clues to myself, and i beleive he re-iterated some about crate he had made after day2. id like to also move those 3 unsures to most likely town, as gilaboy and decond seem deliberatley low post count, in fact id protect these two. deuce is an asshole townie im very certain. They would also be good candidates for rolechecks and medics, as they seem like mafia targets to me from the way mafia has been going. Inactive != town Seriously, everyone who keeps saying that people who are inactive are most likely town should be strung up. If everyone is inactive the mafia win the vast majority of games. If people follow the mindset that inactive = town, townies will always just string up other townies. | ||
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On June 12 2010 11:02 Deucegladlier wrote: Woot, just saw a lot of people unvote for me. When do I get some popularity and some votes. I think someone hasn't read the rules of the game. | ||
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For my part, I played half the game in PMs. I have never played mafia with PMs and it really is dramatic how much it improves the town's strength. While allowing PMs puts a nifty wrinkle into the game, combining the advantages of both PMs and clues is immense. At some of the commentary to my play, the vast majority of my posts were just fishing for reactions once elected. The early game was just blah blah look at me, I'm town. Since it's prettier, when I was killed, this is what my roster looked like: And for the record, I was highly suspicious of crate-godfather (with if it wasn't him, it was either zeks or BrownBear, but zeks had a clue cleared on him already). I just couldn't figure good clue attatchments yet, so I was letting it lay. The only thing I regret was not passing on to MTF that someone had roleclaimed bodyguard to me. I didn't think mafia would go for the bodyguard and me in the same turn - I figured it'd immediately get DTA and littlechava hung hitting at least one mafia. I was really surprised that neither DTA or littlechava got into a fight and started pointing fingers. I had CompX as a confirmed medic from requesting him to cover MTF on night 2. I could have put him on LaXer, but I valued the potential of 2 unused rolechecks on DCLXVI higher than that since DCLXVI's info made sense and he was willing to go along with my suspicions. I wish there was an easy way to put out all that went back and forth in PMs, but it'd just be messy. So if anyone has any questions for me, feel free to throw them my way. | ||
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On June 14 2010 13:28 littlechava wrote: I was also kinda timid about calling anyone out/going public with my PM experiences after you guys died because I hadn't really confirmed that I was actually a medic with anyone in the circle. Darth had a lot more support for sure - and it's been revealed since that deconduo thought I was Mafia. So I probably would have ended up being hung if I actually did point fingers at Darth ;p Yes, but after you got hung, DTA would be on the block if town has any sense. Anyone who had interacted with me (which was a decent number of people) knew I was holding my cards close - it would be fair to assume I didn't rat out the bodyguard to anyone by mistake and that's assuming I even knew who the bodyguard was. | ||
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At the start of day 3 once my sources came in, I had my list of potential mafia at: 3 Lions, BrownBear, bumatlarge, crate, deconduo, Hugoboss21, onihunter (obv), and zeks, then Misder and TyranoS_NiveK being less likely. I had a few targets beyond this but I was pretty sure by far the most highly likely mafia were among those first seven, and if any were missed beyond these nine it was only one more. Late in day 3 I posted some things to try to get folk talking and riled up. I straight up lied in the post about who I thought was more or less likely to be mafia but left a marker to back out of it in PMs to anyone that was concerned about inconsistancies. I wondered if anyone would pick up on it since I made it a little obvious: + Show Spoiler + If you read the first letter of each paragraph you get I FISH. | ||
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Well the godfather is just an add on - I assumed that if just one between zeks, you, or BrownBear were among mafia, you would be godfather. I therefore avoided requesting role checks on any of you. There were two major reasons that I suspected you. One was that your first day content seemed strong but then later was insufficient. It's not that anything you said was wrong. Your logic was consistent and clear. There was just less and less of it as time went on. If you had had more to say on day 3 it would have helped mitigate this suspicion. The second was in how you were talked about. Onihunter admitted in day 1 to sounding like he 'had a massive hardon' for you, and someone (I think it was onihunter again?) specifically suggested having you role checked. I'd have to dig to find the post, but the way it was presented was really suspicious. In any case, I had no way to come after you. I just left you as 'unsure, but if mafia probably godfather'. I expected that you'd just have to get outted by clues in the endgame if you were with them. | ||
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On June 14 2010 14:00 crate wrote: I didn't notice it, but if I'd been town I'd have been pretty upset with that play. You are directing town efforts in a direction they really shouldn't go and you know it?. Town was doing nothing. A lot. I'd rather have town going in a random direction than no direction. I was trying to drive action to give me more room to pick up tells - and the day's activities did lead me to suggesting bumatlarge (along with deconduo) to DCLXVI as good directions for rolecheck. | ||
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On June 14 2010 14:10 crate wrote: So why not direct them at the people you think are mafia? To me this kind of deception just favors the reds, especially if the town starts to accept it (because then mafia start doing it instead of trying to play straight-up). Because the activity of the town wasn't getting anything done. I was pretty sure that I was better off gathering a case and presenting against mafia getting a likely hang than trying to get the town to do any actual work. So in reality I was trying to get the mafia to talk more than I was trying to get the townies to talk. I was more interested in having the mafia not think I was targeting accurately than worrying about the town accomplishing anything as a whole. This choice was really more a function of the state of the game than something that speaks to my general philosophy on playing mafia. | ||
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On June 14 2010 14:17 crate wrote: I'm not sure why having the mafia not think you were targeting accurately helps you. If you weren't elected, sure, I'd buy it. But you had perfect protection, so...? The idea was to keep mafia tongues loose rather than protective of identity. If mafia think that my thought process is not a threat, support my idea of railing on everyone in the MooCow list, etc etc, it can be more telling than if I name mafia suspects and they just get defensive. | ||
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RADFIELD JR. BEARIE: For the most hard-luck player belongs to barth, who has now been killed night 1 in two games I've played in with him It's especially sad because he seems to be extremely excited about playing, but he just seems to attract night hits. Hopefully this won't continue in the future. So if barth lives to day 2 in a game, we hang because he's mafia, right? | ||
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On June 14 2010 14:39 pyr0ma5ta wrote: I used to play on a forum where a guy always got killed round 1. He always signed up, and always got killed round 1. And one game, he didn't get killed, and actually was a really productive citizen. Until the town couldn't find the last Mafia, which was him. He won the game singlehandedly. He keeps signing up, and he keeps getting killed round 1, and hung round 1 when he doesn't get killed. Poor guy. Was the guy disliked or something? Seems like the easy counter strategy is medic protects him night one every time. If he was saved, he's town, if not, lynch him. Of course then mafia would not be so obvious... and the game evolves - resulting in this guy not getting killed in one round all the time (though admittedly will probably retain a short life expectancy). | ||
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