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On April 19 2010 06:07 meeple wrote:
I really can't beleive BM's plan is getting support...
I suppose that BC is being true to word and staying behind the scenes a bit... at least he hasn't pushed his plan forward at all.
First day lynch has barely any chance of getting red, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Lynching inactives is acceptableish... except that we start to forget the main purpose of the game... besides that there are way too many inactives to whittle away at. It seems that some people have decided that Bill Murray should be the first to go down tonight... I will support if necessary but I sort of question some of the newer players semi-blindlysupporting people. They will pop in just to say its a good plan and then speak nothing else of it. If you have supported something please say why you think its good, or what flaws it can possibly have.
I would encourage people to look more closely at those posters and see if anyone stands out. I know that a common defense will be that he/she's a newbie to Mafia but I think there are at least some of them that look suspicious.
I'm really not sure about BM's intent here. Part of me thinks that his "plan" is just a way to incite discussion and see how many people will come out and say "i like this!!1," and not a plan he actually wants to enact.
He hasn't been in the thread for a while so i'd rather wait to see what he has to say for himself when he comes back than start a bandwagon.
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On April 19 2010 05:58 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 05:56 Ace wrote:
We can just lynch Caller since it's been shown when he doesn't post he's scum. I dont know. do you really think he'd expect to get away with the same thing for 2 games in a row? I don't know, it seems possible. I haven't read over any of the recent games, but if this was something Caller tried once and it worked, I wouldn't put it past him (or anyone really) to try the same thing at least a second time. I voted for him for that reason, but again, I'm pretty bad at online mafia and am only voting for him as I can't think of any other better method as I still don't have too much faith in BM's plan.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On April 19 2010 06:14 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 06:07 meeple wrote:
I really can't beleive BM's plan is getting support...
I suppose that BC is being true to word and staying behind the scenes a bit... at least he hasn't pushed his plan forward at all.
First day lynch has barely any chance of getting red, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Lynching inactives is acceptableish... except that we start to forget the main purpose of the game... besides that there are way too many inactives to whittle away at. It seems that some people have decided that Bill Murray should be the first to go down tonight... I will support if necessary but I sort of question some of the newer players semi-blindlysupporting people. They will pop in just to say its a good plan and then speak nothing else of it. If you have supported something please say why you think its good, or what flaws it can possibly have.
I would encourage people to look more closely at those posters and see if anyone stands out. I know that a common defense will be that he/she's a newbie to Mafia but I think there are at least some of them that look suspicious. I'm really not sure about BM's intent here. Part of me thinks that his "plan" is just a way to incite discussion and see how many people will come out and say "i like this!!1," and not a plan he actually wants to enact. He hasn't been in the thread for a while so i'd rather wait to see what he has to say for himself when he comes back than start a bandwagon.
Even so an abnormally amount of people have supported his plan or said something to the effect of "ALL HAIL MASTER BILL MURRAY THE WISE". Kinda sketchy how most of the talking goes back to BM instead of the actual contributions from BC and Zona (but I guess both of them have been mia for a while as well).
What a strange day
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Theory:
BM is actually an Assassin
He is trying to use the list to weed out other assassins so he can win.
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On April 19 2010 05:58 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 05:56 Ace wrote:
We can just lynch Caller since it's been shown when he doesn't post he's scum. I dont know. do you really think he'd expect to get away with the same thing for 2 games in a row?
I thought something like this would happen.
If this isn't a WifoM proposition I don't know what is.
Anyways moving onwards~
It should be plainly obvious that we are way too concerned on trying to break the game using the assassins mechanic. I would categorize mafia activity to be the following:
a) Let's take a look at last game. We had two types of mafia: quiet, incompetent players (like moi) and very town-friendly, experienced players (like shinbi-chan). I think we can roughly boil down mafia players like this as I have yet to see a "inexperienced" mafia play the town role convincingly and make productive posts.
However: posting lists and making plans to kill random people is an L plan. Even if you are town placed, the fact is that you're killing random people for information. Which works as well as lynching someone that you pick out of a hat. Probably less so, because people would likely have made the list such that mafia would be safe in the annals, so they would not be exposed.
In other words, I'm saying that this whole "assassins" plan is a load of crap. There's no need to worry about who's what assassin, as that simply exposes them all to each other. This is bad, because if all the assassins are dead then mafia has a much higher ability to outnumber town, especially because night KP has been reduced.
Now onto this list:
1. Zona
6. iNfuNdiBuLuM
7. RebirthOfLegend
8. BloodyC0bbler
14. Foolishness
17. Ace
18. Caller
21. Fulgrim
28. Elemenope
37. motbob
I would consider all of these guys (well, not that asshole in number 18) as being able to successfully pretend to be pro-town. Thus, do not assume that just because these players are speaking a lot means that they are pro-town. This does not mean they are good players, however. In fact, some of those players are really fucking bad. Also, if they are being quiet, that also doesn't mean that they are town, either. Basically, just watch out for people on this list, and don't trust them too early. Otherwise they can bandwagon for 3-4 days until it's too late.
Similarly, players that are NOT on that list and are being very quiet, I would also keep an eye on. While inexperienced players probably feel pressure from more experienced players to simply follow orders, in fact I want to do two things this game: firstly, let inexperienced players have more discussion with experienced players, so we can bring up the level of mafia play here and not have a "let's not lynch obvious scummy bus driving insane dt that's actually japan caller" moment. Secondly, inexperienced players that are mafia are likely to give themselves away if they aren't vigilant. Thus, quiet inexperienced townies have absolutely no reason to not be talking. By speaking a lot we can see possible slip-ups by inexperienced mafia, and we get more discussion instead of having one or two guys railroad some guy off random analysis and "lol you fell into my trap."
This brings me to my last point for now: Mafia tend to be far more cautious than town. When I was mafia, I am constantly afraid of saying something that would give me or my team away. Thus, I would constantly end up either saying nothing or something non-committal and vague. Something like this:
On April 19 2010 06:07 meeple wrote:
I really can't beleive BM's plan is getting support...
I suppose that BC is being true to word and staying behind the scenes a bit... at least he hasn't pushed his plan forward at all.
First day lynch has barely any chance of getting red, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Lynching inactives is acceptableish... except that we start to forget the main purpose of the game... besides that there are way too many inactives to whittle away at. It seems that some people have decided that Bill Murray should be the first to go down tonight... I will support if necessary but I sort of question some of the newer players semi-blindlysupporting people. They will pop in just to say its a good plan and then speak nothing else of it. If you have supported something please say why you think its good, or what flaws it can possibly have.
I would encourage people to look more closely at those posters and see if anyone stands out. I know that a common defense will be that he/she's a newbie to Mafia but I think there are at least some of them that look suspicious.
Notice how basically he makes no contributions of his own, kind of meanders his way around without actually saying anything, and also implies that he knows more than meets the eye. I'm not saying meeple is mafia, but a post like this that's made out of paper and has no substance is the kind of material that scum love posting.
Here's another piece of crap post:
On April 19 2010 05:58 Osmoses wrote:
Assassins will influence politics, trying to gear lynches in their favor against the ones they suspect to be assassins... Basically they will be the very annoying players that you can't really pin as scum or townie because they have double agendas. They may just appear confused or stupid, I mean they'd have to cook up some pretty elaborate schemes to sway the votes in the favor of someone they want killed if that person doesn't act like scum.
Its really pretty tiring trying to figure out who's what and who and why with such little information, and no clues -_- The only effect assassins have on the town is their votes and their influence, but lynching the right guy seems hard enough already, so if they do sway the vote we might just get a scum anyway... Should we really even be worrying about them? Their night kills, having only 2, will surely be spent on someone they truly believe to be an assassin, so as not to waste them, and the longer the game goes the closer the odds get to 50%. Those seems like good odds.
This is again a very non-committal post with a WifoM in the bottom of the first paragraph. And he also says all sorts of random bullshit and speculation about the game rules instead of talking about players. And because he's a relatively new player, I would put him pretty high on my suspect list, but I haven't really read the game so far as most of it I assume (rightfully) to be crap.
On the other hand, a person that makes a post like this:
On April 19 2010 05:56 Ace wrote:
We can just lynch Caller since it's been shown when he doesn't post he's scum.
If it wasn't for the fact that it was Ace, a post this early like this would be very town-aligned. Notice he's aggressively pushing for it, makes a contribution, and isn't full of bullshit. Now of course I claim my innocence like anybody else would, but still this is important. Notice that he goes charging in balls first like he doesn't give a damn. This early on, charging in and damning the torpedoes is a sign that a player is pro-town.
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On April 19 2010 06:21 Abenson wrote:
Theory:
BM is actually an Assassin
He is trying to use the list to weed out other assassins so he can win. That actually makes a lot of sense. Considering I don't understand BM's plan much, I was trying to figure out his motive for coming up with that plan. Whether he's townie and just happened to come up with a fairly odd plan, or if he's mafia and is...well I don't know much of a motive for him being mafia, but this plan seems great for him if he is an assassin.
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Caller that is some pretty bs logic you just used there. I'm obviously pro-town because I'm charging in balls first and don't give a damn?
Even more interesting you came up with that long drivel after I called you out. So were you just lurking this thread this entire time?
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I thought Caller made a lot of sense, members of the mafia would want to post frequently early on so they are not lynched for being inactive but they also don't want to actually say much in their posts because the more they say the more chance of being proven scum.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On April 19 2010 06:32 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
I thought Caller made a lot of sense, members of the mafia would want to post frequently early on so they are not lynched for being inactive but they also don't want to actually say much in their posts because the more they say the more chance of being proven scum.
Does anyone else besides me see the irony in this post?!?!?
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On April 19 2010 06:26 Ace wrote:
Caller that is some pretty bs logic you just used there. I'm obviously pro-town because I'm charging in balls first and don't give a damn?
Even more interesting you came up with that long drivel after I called you out. So were you just lurking this thread this entire time?
actually i was afk doing hw until I checked the thread again. And then I felt compelled to say something after Infundibulum's Wifom.
And I didn't say you were pro-town. I said a maneuver like that among new players-taking risks early on, making gambles, not playing it safe-those are usually the ones who are more town aligned. Consider a game like this:
One player has 4 Jacks and a King
The other has 4 Jacks and a 2.
The game is played with each player taking turns playing one card face down. Kings beat Jacks, and Jacks beat 2s, and 2s beat Kings . Jacks draw with other Jacks.
This game obviously favors the player with the King, because on a strict-probability basis that player has a much higher chance to win. However: because of the intrinsic psychology involved, that player will tend to play that King later in the game because he feels no need to overextend himself. On the other hand, the player with the 2 has only one chance to win. Thus, he needs to gamble in order to win.
Similarly: Mafia here have the advantage because they have a lot more information than we do. There is no need to overextend themselves right now and so they'll play safe until later in the game. Town, on the other hand, have no such inhibitions, because we have no information. They should be more willing to take gambles and risks that mafia won't especially when the information to town is limited. Shallow[bay] and Dr. Dragoon is an exception, but that only worked because that game was just a crappile of idiocy when nobody "knew" how to play.
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On April 19 2010 06:33 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 06:32 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
I thought Caller made a lot of sense, members of the mafia would want to post frequently early on so they are not lynched for being inactive but they also don't want to actually say much in their posts because the more they say the more chance of being proven scum. Does anyone else besides me see the irony in this post?!?!?
meeeeeee
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On April 19 2010 06:33 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 06:32 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
I thought Caller made a lot of sense, members of the mafia would want to post frequently early on so they are not lynched for being inactive but they also don't want to actually say much in their posts because the more they say the more chance of being proven scum. Does anyone else besides me see the irony in this post?!?!?
I see it too much also you have to consider inexperienced players (such as myself) feel pressure to post early on so they don't get lynched for being inactive.
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On April 19 2010 06:36 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 06:33 Foolishness wrote:On April 19 2010 06:32 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
I thought Caller made a lot of sense, members of the mafia would want to post frequently early on so they are not lynched for being inactive but they also don't want to actually say much in their posts because the more they say the more chance of being proven scum. Does anyone else besides me see the irony in this post?!?!? I see it too much also you have to consider inexperienced players (such as myself) feel pressure to post early on so they don't get lynched for being inactive.
mate i made you a post on how to act like a towny and how not to show yourself as mafia
you could at least take some of the information to heart
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I don't think it's a WiFoM at all, actually. Your strategy last game, hardly posting until you were outed, then distracting the town with the bus driver role, and then fading away until your time to be lynched came - was very risky and by all rights should have gotten you killed if the town had one iota of sense. The fact that the strategy is not only high risk but also transparent makes me think that if you were mafia, you would be less likely to employ the strategy again, especially with the high density of good players this game, regardless of wifom logic.
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Caller you really just said nothing in that post. My vote stays on you.
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Also you really have no idea what WIFOM is. That just makes the defense of yourself even worse.
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On April 19 2010 06:11 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 15:20 TheLardyGooser wrote:I knew Bill Murray was smart, but this plan seems fool proof. Being a fool and a total newwwb I can respect that. Altair, please leave me be when the night comes  ...what the hell... I was going to "nobody cares" that post...but honestly I think voting will do a much better job. Fishball...where are you...?
I was out for the second half of the day yesterday till late.
I only woke up now.
I'm curious why you call me out though.
So BM made a list, similar to Ace's proposal in Caller's Russia Mafia, and a lot of people have already pointed out the flaws. It's hard to tell whether BM is an Assassin trying to hunt for other Assassins, or a plain townie just trying to contribute.
Then we also have a small group of people jumping on Caller for being "inactive".
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After reading Caller's last set of posts I don't think anyone can honestly say he's making sense lol.
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On April 19 2010 02:17 TheLardyGooser wrote:
I still think BMs plan makes the most sense if I understand it right. I feel like it would put the mafia at a much bigger disadvantage but I am still new at this?
Sir, I do believe that if you truly understand something, then it MAKES SENSE TO YOU!
I think Caller is my favorite poster. I love reading his stuff. And I love the bad manner here :D
Personally, we should do BM's plan because it's funny. And lynch that other guy.
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On April 19 2010 06:33 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2010 06:32 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
I thought Caller made a lot of sense, members of the mafia would want to post frequently early on so they are not lynched for being inactive but they also don't want to actually say much in their posts because the more they say the more chance of being proven scum. Does anyone else besides me see the irony in this post?!?!?
I see it too much also you have to consider inexperienced players (such as myself) feel pressure to post early on so they don't get lynched for being inactive.
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EPT
