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On February 12 2013 02:59 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 21:42 Acrofales wrote:
What is the problem you're trying to solve? Are you trying to discover the optimal ban length to reduce modkills to zero? There are some problems with that, but I'm not sure that that is what you're trying to do. Yep. Also not only just "optimal ban length", but a ban process entirely (which can just be a simple "optimal ban length" one) I forgot that we have Newbie games to take into consideration, which is basically another stochastic process altogether. I don't have any idea how to do anything like that....so Midnight, it's all yours  We are counting on you!
I was writing that the goal is unrealistic, but I realized halfway through that I don't actually agree with the goal at all. I think our current ban list system works rather well. We have hosts who decide when players have crossed the line (and act as prosecutors), and people here who judge them (usually just taking over the host's suggestion). If you disagree with the ban, you can discuss it and defend yourself. It is a fair process and the punishments seem about right for the "crimes". What do you feel needs fixing about it?
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Well, some people still keep whining about there being too many modkills/replacements
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On February 13 2013 07:01 gonzaw wrote:
Well, some people still keep whining about there being too many modkills/replacements
I don't think anybody is very happy about modkills/replacements. However, I'd argue that the ban list functions fairly "optimally" as it is: you're never going to stop unforeseen circumstances in RL from happening, so modkills due to inactivity are not going anywhere. And well, Mafia is a fairly stressful game and people will get on each others' nerves. Sometimes that goes too far and they end up getting modkilled or ragequitting (and then modkilled). Also, people will continue to pull stunts like smurfing into games they shouldn't (and getting modkilled).
None of these will go away completely. Can we reduce it further with longer/different bans? Maybe? I don't know. However, I don't think modeling it statistically will help you, because there are too many variables, many of which aren't even quantifiable.
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
gonzaw you could say that the number of modkills and bans is evidence for the ban list configuration being sub-optimal, because modkills and bans are more likely to happen in a worlds where the banlist is not optimally run. But it's not _strong_ evidence. It's not something that can't possibly happen unless the banlist is sub-optimally run. Other people who don't start from the assumption that the banlist is flawed have no trouble thinking of other possibilities.
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True story. I'm a firm believer that people are flawed, myself.
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From NMM XXXVII:
Requesting standard 1-game ban for inactivity for 9-bit.
Requesting warning for inactivity for Macheji.
Both were replaced during N1 after not posting or voting during the day. Macheji apologized to me in PM after he had been replaced. He said he was sorry and there were RL issues. Because he took the effort to explain himself, I figure I'll let him off with a warning, rather than the 1-game ban.
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United States22154 Posts
Approved, unless someone has really strong sentiments against.
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Sitting out Acrofales' Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVIII.
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/sitout personality mafia
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Bans for TL Mafia LX:
Toadesstern: 2 game ban for communicating with a player regarding the game privatly, and then using that information to influence the game
Hassybaby: 2 game ban, same as above, except with the addition of inactivity.
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As I said I'm perfectly fine with the ban itself, I however don't think it was cheating or banworthy (modkillworthy yes) simply on that part. Again, I'm fine with the ban because you told me multiple times to play more civil and stop insulting people on purpose, I told you multiple times that I'll stop it and just ignore people that are frustrating and kept on insulting a couple hours laters, so that's a ban reason.
What happened with hassy that night: I was playing dota with him, during loading screen I refrehsed the thread, saw the nigtpost and said something like "lol, did you see the nightpost? They shot VE, not even mad" in skype or something along those lines to what Hassy responded by basicly claiming his alignment because he forgot I'm in the game and thought I'm only observing and replaced out. So that's what happened. Which was a troublesome situation, I slept over it because it was something like 2 or 3am my time and the next day I told people about it, telling your co-host that I'm perfectly fine pretending it never happened and that I'll completly ignore Hassy for the rest of the game, not saying wether I think he's town or mafia and that he / you can modkill me the instant I bring it into the game in any kind of way.
So I don't think I was using that information to influence the game. I told people about it in the thread without asking you guys first to explain that I'll ignore Hassy readwise but I don't think that's "using that information to influence the game."
Yes I should not have made that comment on skype during the loading screen and it's a lesson learned but while unfortunate it happened and definitely a mordkill reason I don't think it's cheating.
Just my thoughts, as said I'm fine with the ban just thought it's important that people know what happened and it wasn't ill intent by any means...
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you stop playing and go straight to host with that kind of thing
really
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yeah I thought I'd be fine as long as I agree to ignore Hassy 100% and hosts looking over me in case I ignore said agreement.
Yeah waiting for a hosts confirmation would have been better but people asked about my opinion on Hassy on that matter so I made the most neutral post I could think of to tell them to shut up for the moment: + Show Spoiler [click me] +On March 02 2013 00:18 Toadesstern wrote:
About hassy: The reason I'm ignoring him is that he kind of slipped while playing dota yesterday and I've got information I should not have. Around deadline I said something along the lines of "lol, they shot VE, not even mad" while skyping with him and Wiggles (as always when playing dota) not thinking about it and well Hassy answered something that either was a blatant towntell or a blatant mafiatell for me. Not going to tell which one.
I can't really ignore it when trying to analyze him so I'm ignoring him altogether and won't help on that matter. I shouldn't bring it [the information I have] in the thread because I'd consider that to be unfair.
Not the right call and I should have waited but I did not intend to influence the game in any way. Again, don't get this wrong. I don't actually think anything I did in the game is worth more than a warning on it's own but everything together (being a dick on purpose) is probably worth a ban. It just wasn't ill intend at all.
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
I would have left Toad off with a single game ban but I am a total softie. It's greymist's game, and if this was any of your games you'd have done the same thing and probably asked for the same ban. Toad is a totally chill dude and I don't think this reflects poorly on him, as he made a mistake-- but there was an out-of-thread exchange of information, and it went into the thread, and toad was flaming a bit in the thread. Imo Greymist's decision stands for itself
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You saying to someone else in the game, who you knew was in the game "they shot VE" is a town claim. You were aware Hassy was in the game so while his alignment reveal was a mistake yours wasn't. You are a smart guy and you know saying to someone else in your game that "they" shot someone is an alignment claim. If you had said "lol, VE got shot" it wouldn't even be an issue. But you, knowing Hassy was in the game, claimed your alignment to him.
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I would give a warning or one game ban for Toad since he clearly didn't attempt to use the information to influence the game, even though he de facto did. If something like that happens you either don't say anything in the thread and ignore the player in question or replace out. Attempting to explain to town why you are ignoring him is awful; just letting town lynch you is preferable to that, if the host doesn't want to replace you out.
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On March 02 2013 00:18 Toadesstern wrote:
About hassy: The reason I'm ignoring him is that he kind of slipped while playing dota yesterday and I've got information I should not have. Around deadline I said something along the lines of "lol, they shot VE, not even mad" while skyping with him and Wiggles (as always when playing dota) not thinking about it and well Hassy answered something that either was a blatant towntell or a blatant mafiatell for me. Not going to tell which one.
I can't really ignore it when trying to analyze him so I'm ignoring him altogether and won't help on that matter. I shouldn't bring it in the thread because I'd consider that to be unfair.
I'd sure as hell say that this had would have an influence on my game, and is in clear violation of the rules set out in the game.
Toadesstern engineered a scenario for me which makes it impossible for me to keep him alive in the game. That alone deserves greater than a 1 game ban in my opinion. If you don't like it, tough. Nothing short of GMarshal or the entire unity of this forum will move me on this. Period.
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What about Chaos Bear from LX?
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On March 13 2013 17:23 Aquanim wrote:
What about Chaos Bear from LX?
He requested a replacement with a real life reason that he could no longer continue to play. I couldn't find one for him.
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Could I sit out DH's The Game Mafia?
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EPT
