EPTThe only other game I have ever been modkilled in is chronotrigger. I have never given up on a game. I have never been modkilled for inactivity.
And your comparison to an all town setup is not applicable to this situation at all.
TL Mafia Ban List - Page 159
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
The only other game I have ever been modkilled in is chronotrigger. I have never given up on a game. I have never been modkilled for inactivity. And your comparison to an all town setup is not applicable to this situation at all. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On December 13 2012 19:54 iGrok wrote: I would like to see kush play a newbie game, then progress forward based on his behavior there. This is clearly iGrok's fault! :p In my opinion, a vet playing in a newbie game isn't a huge deal. It's against the rules, but isn't comparable to something like taking a screenshot of your role pm. In the past, we've had vet's play in newbies and replace into newbies. We have even considered having vets smurf to serve as an in-game coach. The skill gap isn't so huge that a veteran is going to completely ruin the game. The bigger deal is smurfing without a host's permission and getting caught doing so. I didn't follow the game in question, but if he didn't attempt to ruin the game, then a standard ban seems reasonable. People who rage quit or go afk are going to have a much more negative impact on a game and they usually get away with a warning or single game ban. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:08 kushm4sta wrote: well jinglehell the bad things you say about me are just untrue. Having a nonnewb in a newb game is not to detriment of the noobs. I always have the utmost respect for the integrity of a mafia game and consider playing to my wincon a sacred duty that I would never betray(except in chronotrigger but that game was barely even mafia). The only other game I have ever been modkilled in is chronotrigger. I have never given up on a game. I have never been modkilled for inactivity. And your comparison to an all town setup is not applicable to this situation at all. kush, the rules of the game that you smurfed explicitly stated "No smurfs." Instead of acknowledging this, apologizing, saying it wont happen again, and accepting whatever punishment was deemed appropriate (within reason) you went out of your way to say that you did not violate the rules and that even if you were punished, you'd just smurf again in an attempt to circumvent the punishment itself. This is not how one demonstrates remorse or a willingness to change. You have shown zero respect for the hosts, for the community, for the structure of the forum as it attempts to provide a controlled, manageable, and most important of all, fun environment to play in. Jingle's analogy to a 0-scum game is to demonstrate why there are certain rules in place - they result in the game being less fun/unplayable. This is no longer a matter of smurfs being "unfair" to the newbies, its a matter of you completely disregarding the rules, rules that are there for our benefit. The same integrity that applies to this forum as a whole extends to the mafia side of things as well. If you are unable to abide by the rules, you should see yourself out. Find another forum to play on if it is that important to you. E: On January 24 2013 09:11 kitaman27 wrote: This is clearly iGrok's fault! :p In my opinion, a vet playing in a newbie game isn't a huge deal. It's against the rules, but isn't comparable to something like taking a screenshot of your role pm. In the past, we've had vet's play in newbies and replace into newbies. We have even considered having vets smurf to serve as an in-game coach. The skill gap isn't so huge that a veteran is going to completely ruin the game. The bigger deal is smurfing without a host's permission and getting caught doing so. I didn't follow the game in question, but if he didn't attempt to ruin the game, then a standard ban seems reasonable. People who rage quit or go afk are going to have a much more negative impact on a game and they usually get away with a warning or single game ban. I skimmed over the game, kush's play was in no way malicious, it's been the followup to being caught, and generally causing a scene that has led to the extended ban discussions | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:17 kushm4sta wrote: i would not smurf to avoid a temp ban hopeless Well judging by GM's post a couple pages back, a temp isn't an option. Let's go on to say that IF, and that's a big IF, you were to be temp banned, what do you feel would be a reasonable ban length, considering that the general consensus I've witnessed so far is to just banish you once and for all? | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
He told me that he was really going to try this time. What did you guys expect me to do? Rat him out to you? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:21 Promethelax wrote: He smurfed into the game with his irl friend who was currently banned from playing. I think that point needs to be adressed as well. It was deeply disrespectful (in my opinion) to us as a community and the rules we hold ourselves to. Especially if you consider the way it was so close on the heels of his escapades in Chrono (which was directly followed by his apparently-on-the-deathbed-moments-before-self, trying to /in on Paranoia, which was shot down before I even knew about Chrono.) This, of course, was right after a spot of trouble in Looney, where only the host's much cooler than my own head prevented him being a modkill following a sustained argument about why he should be able to talk about why a player should, in his own opinion, be receiving a modkill, and use it as basis for trying to prejudice people's votes (they were replaced for activity reasons, but technically had not violated the minimum activity requirements in letter, mostly, I believe, due to a mild oversight in the funky mechanics.) | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
that /in into paranoia was the morning after. And in Looney, you can ask the players I was fine. The "protracted argument" has been posted here before. I don't even consider it an argument. It was just a PM convo with you, the cohost, about what could or could not be said about modkills. (I still find the rules kind of ambiguous, and different hosts allow different levels of discussion about modkills but w/e.) | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
Bye kush, and don't ever come back. You are not welcome. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
On January 24 2013 17:38 GreYMisT wrote: The best way to remove a cancer is to purge it, completly and without remorse. I support the highest punishment Gmarshal is able to get. Bye kush, and don't ever come back. You are not welcome. did you know that I'm a person? with feelings | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On January 24 2013 22:20 kushm4sta wrote: did you know that I'm a person? with feelings So are the rest of us, with our own feelings, and you've taken to pouring bile all over ours, so why should we respect yours? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Something a lot of people on tl seem to miss (I've noticed it both here and in the ABL, notably), is the virtue of compassion. Whenever someone gives a two day ban, or just a warning, someone seems to feel like it's "not enough", and they miss the point of the action entirely. Many times much more is achieved by compassion than by crushing the offender under your heel. With mercy, you create good feelings and turn bad behaviors into constructive ones, while by not staying your hand, you instead create further resentment. That is not to say that there aren't times when the fullest punishment is called for, but I feel that it is wisest to err on the side of mercy, there is always time to ban someone, but the hate created by banning rarely heals. Based on that, and his sharp shift in attitude both here and in PMs and following discussion in the staff forums, kushm4sta will not be permed from tl (yes, he is a PBU, those are allowed on occasion provided they behave) and I will give him the punishment the host decided, a three game ban. If he is caught on a similar infraction however the consequences will be severe. Terminal even. That said, anyone who does not want him in his games is free to blacklist him. His change of attitude is abrupt, but I prefer to believe it sincere. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17828 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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