Even though the game doesnt follow the ban list, I already stated I would sit out as self-imposed punishment.

GM: if you want to follow through officially out of respect for Dr.H, i don't have a problem.

I will state openly however, that I think 3 games is severe punishment.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

March 22 2013 03:16 GMT

#3247

On March 22 2013 11:55 DarthPunk wrote:

Show nested quote +

Is this a joke?

I don't follow the banlist when allowing players to sign up for games, I will request bans for modkills depending on the circumstances though. I am requesting a 3 game ban for Mocsta's behavior in "The Game", it's simple enough to understand.

Hopeless1der

United States5836 Posts

March 22 2013 03:18 GMT

#3248

kind of need to wait until the game ends to seek punishment I think.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

March 22 2013 03:18 GMT

#3249

On March 22 2013 12:13 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think for a combination of spamming, flaming and martyring (as well as playing intentionally badly by not reading up after replacing) is bad enough, combined with the fact that you actually had the audacity to request to be able to post after being modkilled even though you already made a disgusting farewell post calling everyone else an idiot. Unless I see a significant change in the way you play (you were good in LX so I don't understand this) I will never allow you in a game I host again.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

March 22 2013 03:19 GMT

#3250

On March 22 2013 12:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
kind of need to wait until the game ends to seek punishment I think.

Is that the rule? I'll just post the same thing. 1 game for hyaach as well for not posting and never telling me anything about it. IF he had a legit excuse like his internet got turned off I'll take that one back though.

GMarshal

United States22154 Posts

March 22 2013 03:21 GMT

#3251

Yeah, no discussing games or bans resulting from games until the game is over.

Plus games that don't follow the banlist can't request bans IIRC, but thats something to argue later, as I'm not 100% sure on it, and not 100% sure its reasonable.

EDIT: Also when making ban requests, linking me to the relevant posts makes me happy, it means I don't have to read 200 page threads looking for stuff ^_^

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

March 22 2013 03:23 GMT

#3252

Alright. I'll argue with you about that later then. I don't see the point of even having a banlist if that's the rule.

Mocsta

Australia9389 Posts

March 22 2013 03:23 GMT

#3253

On March 22 2013 12:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Show nested quote +

I do not intend to post the below to exacerbate this situation.

I realise we need accountability for our actions. Thus I am more than willing accept "fair" punishment.

Please note the below from "The Game" OP

On March 09 2013 07:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
The Game
This game does NOT follow the banlist.

Considering I was modkilled along the lines for disobeying this rule.

Game Rules
6. Spamming, martyring, ragequitting and other such acts will not be tolerated. You can not edit your posts.

I stand by, 3 games being a harsh, and thus, "unfair" penalty.

In particular because you warned me, the punishment would either be 2 to 3 games, or to offer my services as a coach.
This offence in my opinion does not warrant maximum penalty.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

March 22 2013 03:24 GMT

#3254

That's up to other hosts whether they want to allow you in or not, I probably won't ever do it again though.

Mocsta

Australia9389 Posts

March 22 2013 03:24 GMT

#3255

On March 22 2013 12:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I will never allow you in a game I host again.

Accepted.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

March 22 2013 03:27 GMT

#3256

The way I see the banlist is that it's just a record of what offenses players have made in games. I think the banlist serves it's purpose far far better as a record of offenses and allow each host to make his or her or own decision about signups based on that than a universal blacklist with strict rules. That way you can differentiate between players who were inactive/noshows in a game because their mom died or their internet got turned off versus players who were noshows simply because they don't care.

I don't necessarily care to not allow a player to signup for my game for a ban I don't personally agree with in the first place, and it's even more stupid to say I can't request consequences for players who do things to ruin my game for that reason alone. The banlist is unnecessary as far as how it currently functions.

Coagulation

United States9633 Posts

March 22 2013 03:38 GMT

#3257

Lets overthrow the ban list. If we rush gmarsh we can choke him out before he can ban both of us.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

March 22 2013 03:53 GMT

#3258

But you deserve most of your bans.

Acrofales

Spain18356 Posts

March 22 2013 05:15 GMT

#3259

On March 22 2013 12:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
The way I see the banlist is that it's just a record of what offenses players have made in games. I think the banlist serves it's purpose far far better as a record of offenses and allow each host to make his or her or own decision about signups based on that than a universal blacklist with strict rules. That way you can differentiate between players who were inactive/noshows in a game because their mom died or their internet got turned off versus players who were noshows simply because they don't care.

I don't necessarily care to not allow a player to signup for my game for a ban I don't personally agree with in the first place, and it's even more stupid to say I can't request consequences for players who do things to ruin my game for that reason alone. The banlist is unnecessary as far as how it currently functions.

I respectfully disagree with this sentiment.

Bans aren't decided unilaterally, they are decided in conjunction between the host and GMarshal, and the defendent himself has a chance to argue his case here, with the whole TL Mafia community here to chip in. Sure, most of the bans are 1-game deals for inactivity, but how many of those are for people who have excused themselves, or even apologized after the fact for something going wrong? I don't think there are many, if any.

The banlist works because hosts agree to use it. Yes, it is a central list that records offenses, but it is also a system of punishment. If you don't work with the banlist, people can't use your game to sit out. You consciously made the decision to not make your game part of the TL Mafia Correctional System, yet you want infractions in your game to be counted.

You choose not to use the banlist, that's a choice any host can make, but if you choose not to use the banlist, you shouldn't try to use it.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

March 22 2013 05:22 GMT

#3260

Then why shouldn't a player who cheats/spams/flames be punished for doing so in a game regardless of whether it's a banlist game or not? That's essentially just punishing a host for not using the list and potentially punishing other hosts who will allow that player in their game because they weren't banned for it.

Then if another host wants to have a banlist game but doesn't want to allow Mocsta in for his behavior in my non-banlist game, is he even allowed to make that kind of decision since he wouldn't be on the banlist in the first place? I think there's a middle ground there. Hosts shouldn't have to follow the central banlist but that doesn't mean players who shit up their games should be ignored by other hosts. I don't follow the banlist because I prefer to make the decision of who does or doesn't play in my game, but I don't mean that to be allowance for people to behave however they want in my game. It's fine if GMarshal won't add him to the list, but I think other hosts should be aware of his behavior or any potential offenses that occur in non-banlist games and should weigh that information when taking signups for their game.

If hosts are allowed to exclude players not banned on the list from their games while still hosting their game as a banlist game, then I guess I have no problem with it.