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On April 18 2017 03:20 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 03:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 18 2017 01:54 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 01:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 17 2017 07:00 Gahlo wrote:
Death
Taxes
TSM in finals. I must say it is pretty impressive how TSM and even more so SKT stay so strong all this time. TSM pre Bjergsen had pretty stacked in region rosters and Bjerg era TSM and SKT have had the best player in the region at the most impactful position in the game. So I don't know how impressive that really is. It's true that Bjerg is a beast and Faker is even more of an animal. Extremely talented people. However it has been shown that without every cog working, and not just the star, that it is very easy to fall and fall hard. Even TSM and SKT have had their moments. However, they got past it and TSM has been in every NA final and SKT have won Worlds 3 times. The impressive part is the fact that they are consistent when more teams are becoming stronger and stronger in a game where one chink in your armor will send you spiraling down if not vanishing outright. TSMs consistency really is amazing but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say other teams have become stronger. NA has been largely a two horse race for the entirety of the scenes existence with merely who were the two horses changing at certain times. The fact that TSM has basically always been one of the two is incredible. Do wonder if the weakness of the rest of the teams is partly to blame for lack of any kind of international success. When you're always at the top uncontested mostly it must be hard to truly get to the next level. You need that running buddy pushing you forward to new heights. SKT has always had that force of antagonism. Western League seems to lack that currently.
SKT having decent competition is definitely a bonus. I, honestly, still find it extremely disappointing that people don't see that Piglet/Impact being relevant LCS players is a joke. That is the gap. Those guys were the undoing of 2014 SKT, and yet are fairly high tier in NA. Like I said above, people complained about Hai's mechanics holding C9 back in 2015, his mechanics are average in the NALCS now, and Balls & Lemon are starting on the 3rd best team in NA. That is the gap.
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On April 18 2017 05:51 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 03:20 Numy wrote:On April 18 2017 03:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 18 2017 01:54 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 01:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 17 2017 07:00 Gahlo wrote:
Death
Taxes
TSM in finals. I must say it is pretty impressive how TSM and even more so SKT stay so strong all this time. TSM pre Bjergsen had pretty stacked in region rosters and Bjerg era TSM and SKT have had the best player in the region at the most impactful position in the game. So I don't know how impressive that really is. It's true that Bjerg is a beast and Faker is even more of an animal. Extremely talented people. However it has been shown that without every cog working, and not just the star, that it is very easy to fall and fall hard. Even TSM and SKT have had their moments. However, they got past it and TSM has been in every NA final and SKT have won Worlds 3 times. The impressive part is the fact that they are consistent when more teams are becoming stronger and stronger in a game where one chink in your armor will send you spiraling down if not vanishing outright. TSMs consistency really is amazing but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say other teams have become stronger. NA has been largely a two horse race for the entirety of the scenes existence with merely who were the two horses changing at certain times. The fact that TSM has basically always been one of the two is incredible. Do wonder if the weakness of the rest of the teams is partly to blame for lack of any kind of international success. When you're always at the top uncontested mostly it must be hard to truly get to the next level. You need that running buddy pushing you forward to new heights. SKT has always had that force of antagonism. Western League seems to lack that currently. SKT having decent competition is definitely a bonus. I, honestly, still find it extremely disappointing that people don't see that Piglet/Impact being relevant LCS players is a joke. That is the gap. Those guys were the undoing of 2014 SKT, and yet are fairly high tier in NA. Like I said above, people complained about Hai's mechanics holding C9 back in 2015, his mechanics are average in the NALCS now, and Balls & Lemon are starting on the 3rd best team in NA. That is the gap.
Were fairly high tier in the case of Piglet. No way in hell Flyquest is the 3rd best team.
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what's so bad about Impact being good in NA? He's not as good as the elite korean tops in LCK but he's certainly right below them so its not bad.
like we know ssumday (and others outside of NA) is individually better but impact has transitioned nicely
impact could still play in the LCK and be probably an average top or at least a serviceable one.
piglet's stock has dropped heavily. the only time he was the 'top' of NA LCS was in s6 spring when he was easily top 2 ADC NA. which is not too surprising considering the meta then. piglet's streaky patch player. on a good run he is a world class ADC and the other times he is barely average to below average.
NA players aren't the joke, it's the NA system.
in the case of ssumday: he's clearly individually the best top laner in the NA LCS but outside of the korean system he is near helpless besides the rare 1v9. the only one that seems to have some hope is TSM but even they have their many flaws.
now if TSM and TL combined with steve doing only the business side ($$$) and regi doing everything else, I could maybe see a team that's consistently worlds bracket stage tier but other than that lol
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On April 18 2017 06:01 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 05:51 cLutZ wrote:On April 18 2017 03:20 Numy wrote:On April 18 2017 03:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 18 2017 01:54 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 01:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 17 2017 07:00 Gahlo wrote:
Death
Taxes
TSM in finals. I must say it is pretty impressive how TSM and even more so SKT stay so strong all this time. TSM pre Bjergsen had pretty stacked in region rosters and Bjerg era TSM and SKT have had the best player in the region at the most impactful position in the game. So I don't know how impressive that really is. It's true that Bjerg is a beast and Faker is even more of an animal. Extremely talented people. However it has been shown that without every cog working, and not just the star, that it is very easy to fall and fall hard. Even TSM and SKT have had their moments. However, they got past it and TSM has been in every NA final and SKT have won Worlds 3 times. The impressive part is the fact that they are consistent when more teams are becoming stronger and stronger in a game where one chink in your armor will send you spiraling down if not vanishing outright. TSMs consistency really is amazing but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say other teams have become stronger. NA has been largely a two horse race for the entirety of the scenes existence with merely who were the two horses changing at certain times. The fact that TSM has basically always been one of the two is incredible. Do wonder if the weakness of the rest of the teams is partly to blame for lack of any kind of international success. When you're always at the top uncontested mostly it must be hard to truly get to the next level. You need that running buddy pushing you forward to new heights. SKT has always had that force of antagonism. Western League seems to lack that currently. SKT having decent competition is definitely a bonus. I, honestly, still find it extremely disappointing that people don't see that Piglet/Impact being relevant LCS players is a joke. That is the gap. Those guys were the undoing of 2014 SKT, and yet are fairly high tier in NA. Like I said above, people complained about Hai's mechanics holding C9 back in 2015, his mechanics are average in the NALCS now, and Balls & Lemon are starting on the 3rd best team in NA. That is the gap. Were fairly high tier in the case of Piglet. No way in hell Flyquest is the 3rd best team.
1. Impact was the best toplaner in the LCS for a while. So IDK wtf you are talking about.
2. Fly placed 3rd, will finish 3/4, and its not like CLG would be favored against them...
On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
what's so bad about Impact being good in NA? He's not as good as the elite korean tops in LCK but he's certainly right below them so its not bad.
Its, basically, part 1 of "the gap".
On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
like we know ssumday (and others outside of NA) is individually better but impact has transitioned nicely
That is bad.
On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
impact could still play in the LCK and be probably an average top or at least a serviceable one.
Serviceable for a team no decent NA team will ever face internationally.
On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
piglet's stock has dropped heavily. the only time he was the 'top' of NA LCS was in s6 spring when he was easily top 2 ADC NA. which is not too surprising considering the meta then. piglet's streaky patch player. on a good run he is a world class ADC and the other times he is barely average to below average.
Its embarrassing he was ever the top of NA LCS
On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
NA players aren't the joke, it's the NA system.
in the case of ssumday: he's clearly individually the best top laner in the NA LCS but outside of the korean system he is near helpless besides the rare 1v9. the only one that seems to have some hope is TSM but even they have their many flaws.
Clearly we have demonstrated that it is both.
On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
now if TSM and TL combined with steve doing only the business side ($$$) and regi doing everything else, I could maybe see a team that's consistently worlds bracket stage tier but other than that lol
Regi appears to outclass Steve at all relevant skills so IDK what the point of the merger is.
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On April 18 2017 07:04 cLutZ wrote:
Catastrophe of multiquoting.
What I'm saying is the Impact is still pretty good in NA but Piglet has not been for a while unless the meta fit him perfectly. That is "wtf" I'm talking about.
Flyquest finished 5th, only ahead of DIG because they lost one fewer games. They are going to end up 4th in playoffs because CLG has the accidental choking capability of a toddler.
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On April 18 2017 07:04 cLutZ wrote:
Its embarrassing he was ever the top of NA LCS
Piglet was never on the top of NA LCS. Not even close, beating up the bottom tier scrubs doesn't count for anything. You'd think by 2017 people would realize this, but I guess we're still donning the TL googles of Piglet can do no wrong.
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On April 18 2017 07:27 Gahlo wrote:What I'm saying is the Impact is still pretty good in NA but Piglet has not been for a while unless the meta fit him perfectly. That is "wtf" I'm talking about. Flyquest finished 5th, only ahead of DIG because they lost one fewer games. They are going to end up 4th in playoffs because CLG has the accidental choking capability of a toddler.
I don't like Piglet either. I have been under the impression that people liked his performances, at least when he first came over. Even when some guy like "Joe" or "Steve" was better.
Lol @ CLG, that wasn't a choke, they bad.
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On April 18 2017 07:04 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 06:01 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 05:51 cLutZ wrote:On April 18 2017 03:20 Numy wrote:On April 18 2017 03:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 18 2017 01:54 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 01:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 17 2017 07:00 Gahlo wrote:
Death
Taxes
TSM in finals. I must say it is pretty impressive how TSM and even more so SKT stay so strong all this time. TSM pre Bjergsen had pretty stacked in region rosters and Bjerg era TSM and SKT have had the best player in the region at the most impactful position in the game. So I don't know how impressive that really is. It's true that Bjerg is a beast and Faker is even more of an animal. Extremely talented people. However it has been shown that without every cog working, and not just the star, that it is very easy to fall and fall hard. Even TSM and SKT have had their moments. However, they got past it and TSM has been in every NA final and SKT have won Worlds 3 times. The impressive part is the fact that they are consistent when more teams are becoming stronger and stronger in a game where one chink in your armor will send you spiraling down if not vanishing outright. TSMs consistency really is amazing but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say other teams have become stronger. NA has been largely a two horse race for the entirety of the scenes existence with merely who were the two horses changing at certain times. The fact that TSM has basically always been one of the two is incredible. Do wonder if the weakness of the rest of the teams is partly to blame for lack of any kind of international success. When you're always at the top uncontested mostly it must be hard to truly get to the next level. You need that running buddy pushing you forward to new heights. SKT has always had that force of antagonism. Western League seems to lack that currently. SKT having decent competition is definitely a bonus. I, honestly, still find it extremely disappointing that people don't see that Piglet/Impact being relevant LCS players is a joke. That is the gap. Those guys were the undoing of 2014 SKT, and yet are fairly high tier in NA. Like I said above, people complained about Hai's mechanics holding C9 back in 2015, his mechanics are average in the NALCS now, and Balls & Lemon are starting on the 3rd best team in NA. That is the gap. Were fairly high tier in the case of Piglet. No way in hell Flyquest is the 3rd best team. 1. Impact was the best toplaner in the LCS for a while. So IDK wtf you are talking about. 2. Fly placed 3rd, will finish 3/4, and its not like CLG would be favored against them... Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
what's so bad about Impact being good in NA? He's not as good as the elite korean tops in LCK but he's certainly right below them so its not bad. Its, basically, part 1 of "the gap". Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
like we know ssumday (and others outside of NA) is individually better but impact has transitioned nicely That is bad. Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
impact could still play in the LCK and be probably an average top or at least a serviceable one. Serviceable for a team no decent NA team will ever face internationally. Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
piglet's stock has dropped heavily. the only time he was the 'top' of NA LCS was in s6 spring when he was easily top 2 ADC NA. which is not too surprising considering the meta then. piglet's streaky patch player. on a good run he is a world class ADC and the other times he is barely average to below average. Its embarrassing he was ever the top of NA LCS Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
NA players aren't the joke, it's the NA system.
in the case of ssumday: he's clearly individually the best top laner in the NA LCS but outside of the korean system he is near helpless besides the rare 1v9. the only one that seems to have some hope is TSM but even they have their many flaws. Clearly we have demonstrated that it is both. Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
now if TSM and TL combined with steve doing only the business side ($$$) and regi doing everything else, I could maybe see a team that's consistently worlds bracket stage tier but other than that lol Regi appears to outclass Steve at all relevant skills so IDK what the point of the merger is.
why is it bad? what is so wrong about a player from a superior league being good in a lesser league?
I don't understand your logic here. it's nothing new to sports or esports.
ok again what is your point? Impact would be average enough in a superior league that he wouldn't face NA teams internationally. what is the problem again?
no cause piglet was actually good then. or at least in the context of the world, 'good enough'.
yes it is both but the bigger problem is the system while you are focusing more on the players for some reason.
disagree. steve seems better at getting sponsorships at deals with a historically mediocre (and lately shit) team. granted it may be he is just spending more time on it, who knows. but you can't dismiss all the money steve has generated.
dunno why you are trying to edgelord here
though honestly not sure if you are just a really distraught NA fan who has just discovered that korea will be far superior than NA for a long time.
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Personally, I don't mind the gap even if it means NA will always be the weakest region. Just like in real sports, you're always going to have a few regions dominate any one sport, but other regions will still play the sport. Japan will NEVER have the best basketball or soccer team, but that doesn't mean they should stop competing internationally.
I dislike how people think NA should just not compete internationally just because they suck. Yes we all know Worlds is basically LCK Autumn with random high school level (by comparison) League teams getting dumpstered, but I'd rather have that than let it be like Brood War where there was literally no scene outside of South Korea.
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United States15977 Posts
On April 18 2017 08:40 dsyxelic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 07:04 cLutZ wrote:On April 18 2017 06:01 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 05:51 cLutZ wrote:On April 18 2017 03:20 Numy wrote:On April 18 2017 03:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 18 2017 01:54 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 01:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 17 2017 07:00 Gahlo wrote:
Death
Taxes
TSM in finals. I must say it is pretty impressive how TSM and even more so SKT stay so strong all this time. TSM pre Bjergsen had pretty stacked in region rosters and Bjerg era TSM and SKT have had the best player in the region at the most impactful position in the game. So I don't know how impressive that really is. It's true that Bjerg is a beast and Faker is even more of an animal. Extremely talented people. However it has been shown that without every cog working, and not just the star, that it is very easy to fall and fall hard. Even TSM and SKT have had their moments. However, they got past it and TSM has been in every NA final and SKT have won Worlds 3 times. The impressive part is the fact that they are consistent when more teams are becoming stronger and stronger in a game where one chink in your armor will send you spiraling down if not vanishing outright. TSMs consistency really is amazing but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say other teams have become stronger. NA has been largely a two horse race for the entirety of the scenes existence with merely who were the two horses changing at certain times. The fact that TSM has basically always been one of the two is incredible. Do wonder if the weakness of the rest of the teams is partly to blame for lack of any kind of international success. When you're always at the top uncontested mostly it must be hard to truly get to the next level. You need that running buddy pushing you forward to new heights. SKT has always had that force of antagonism. Western League seems to lack that currently. SKT having decent competition is definitely a bonus. I, honestly, still find it extremely disappointing that people don't see that Piglet/Impact being relevant LCS players is a joke. That is the gap. Those guys were the undoing of 2014 SKT, and yet are fairly high tier in NA. Like I said above, people complained about Hai's mechanics holding C9 back in 2015, his mechanics are average in the NALCS now, and Balls & Lemon are starting on the 3rd best team in NA. That is the gap. Were fairly high tier in the case of Piglet. No way in hell Flyquest is the 3rd best team. 1. Impact was the best toplaner in the LCS for a while. So IDK wtf you are talking about. 2. Fly placed 3rd, will finish 3/4, and its not like CLG would be favored against them... On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
what's so bad about Impact being good in NA? He's not as good as the elite korean tops in LCK but he's certainly right below them so its not bad. Its, basically, part 1 of "the gap". On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
like we know ssumday (and others outside of NA) is individually better but impact has transitioned nicely That is bad. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
impact could still play in the LCK and be probably an average top or at least a serviceable one. Serviceable for a team no decent NA team will ever face internationally. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
piglet's stock has dropped heavily. the only time he was the 'top' of NA LCS was in s6 spring when he was easily top 2 ADC NA. which is not too surprising considering the meta then. piglet's streaky patch player. on a good run he is a world class ADC and the other times he is barely average to below average. Its embarrassing he was ever the top of NA LCS On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
NA players aren't the joke, it's the NA system.
in the case of ssumday: he's clearly individually the best top laner in the NA LCS but outside of the korean system he is near helpless besides the rare 1v9. the only one that seems to have some hope is TSM but even they have their many flaws. Clearly we have demonstrated that it is both. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
now if TSM and TL combined with steve doing only the business side ($$$) and regi doing everything else, I could maybe see a team that's consistently worlds bracket stage tier but other than that lol Regi appears to outclass Steve at all relevant skills so IDK what the point of the merger is. why is it bad? what is so wrong about a player from a superior league being good in a lesser league? I don't understand your logic here. it's nothing new to sports or esports. ok again what is your point? Impact would be average enough in a superior league that he wouldn't face NA teams internationally. what is the problem again? no cause piglet was actually good then. or at least in the context of the world, 'good enough'. yes it is both but the bigger problem is the system while you are focusing more on the players for some reason. disagree. steve seems better at getting sponsorships at deals with a historically mediocre (and lately shit) team. granted it may be he is just spending more time on it, who knows. but you can't dismiss all the money steve has generated. dunno why you are trying to edgelord here though honestly not sure if you are just a really distraught NA fan who has just discovered that korea will be far superior than NA for a long time.
TL is also one of the most storied Western esports franchises, and they have a site with lots of traffic. TSM is a relative newcomer, and I guess that their site/ etc. doesn't get the volume of traffic the TL properties do. Looking at it from a biz perspective, TL maybe offers more advertising opportunity, plus Steve has just been in the business longer so he knows people and such.
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On April 20 2017 03:29 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 08:40 dsyxelic wrote:On April 18 2017 07:04 cLutZ wrote:On April 18 2017 06:01 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 05:51 cLutZ wrote:On April 18 2017 03:20 Numy wrote:On April 18 2017 03:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 18 2017 01:54 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 01:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 17 2017 07:00 Gahlo wrote:
Death
Taxes
TSM in finals. I must say it is pretty impressive how TSM and even more so SKT stay so strong all this time. TSM pre Bjergsen had pretty stacked in region rosters and Bjerg era TSM and SKT have had the best player in the region at the most impactful position in the game. So I don't know how impressive that really is. It's true that Bjerg is a beast and Faker is even more of an animal. Extremely talented people. However it has been shown that without every cog working, and not just the star, that it is very easy to fall and fall hard. Even TSM and SKT have had their moments. However, they got past it and TSM has been in every NA final and SKT have won Worlds 3 times. The impressive part is the fact that they are consistent when more teams are becoming stronger and stronger in a game where one chink in your armor will send you spiraling down if not vanishing outright. TSMs consistency really is amazing but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say other teams have become stronger. NA has been largely a two horse race for the entirety of the scenes existence with merely who were the two horses changing at certain times. The fact that TSM has basically always been one of the two is incredible. Do wonder if the weakness of the rest of the teams is partly to blame for lack of any kind of international success. When you're always at the top uncontested mostly it must be hard to truly get to the next level. You need that running buddy pushing you forward to new heights. SKT has always had that force of antagonism. Western League seems to lack that currently. SKT having decent competition is definitely a bonus. I, honestly, still find it extremely disappointing that people don't see that Piglet/Impact being relevant LCS players is a joke. That is the gap. Those guys were the undoing of 2014 SKT, and yet are fairly high tier in NA. Like I said above, people complained about Hai's mechanics holding C9 back in 2015, his mechanics are average in the NALCS now, and Balls & Lemon are starting on the 3rd best team in NA. That is the gap. Were fairly high tier in the case of Piglet. No way in hell Flyquest is the 3rd best team. 1. Impact was the best toplaner in the LCS for a while. So IDK wtf you are talking about. 2. Fly placed 3rd, will finish 3/4, and its not like CLG would be favored against them... On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
what's so bad about Impact being good in NA? He's not as good as the elite korean tops in LCK but he's certainly right below them so its not bad. Its, basically, part 1 of "the gap". On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
like we know ssumday (and others outside of NA) is individually better but impact has transitioned nicely That is bad. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
impact could still play in the LCK and be probably an average top or at least a serviceable one. Serviceable for a team no decent NA team will ever face internationally. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
piglet's stock has dropped heavily. the only time he was the 'top' of NA LCS was in s6 spring when he was easily top 2 ADC NA. which is not too surprising considering the meta then. piglet's streaky patch player. on a good run he is a world class ADC and the other times he is barely average to below average. Its embarrassing he was ever the top of NA LCS On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
NA players aren't the joke, it's the NA system.
in the case of ssumday: he's clearly individually the best top laner in the NA LCS but outside of the korean system he is near helpless besides the rare 1v9. the only one that seems to have some hope is TSM but even they have their many flaws. Clearly we have demonstrated that it is both. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
now if TSM and TL combined with steve doing only the business side ($$$) and regi doing everything else, I could maybe see a team that's consistently worlds bracket stage tier but other than that lol Regi appears to outclass Steve at all relevant skills so IDK what the point of the merger is. why is it bad? what is so wrong about a player from a superior league being good in a lesser league? I don't understand your logic here. it's nothing new to sports or esports. ok again what is your point? Impact would be average enough in a superior league that he wouldn't face NA teams internationally. what is the problem again? no cause piglet was actually good then. or at least in the context of the world, 'good enough'. yes it is both but the bigger problem is the system while you are focusing more on the players for some reason. disagree. steve seems better at getting sponsorships at deals with a historically mediocre (and lately shit) team. granted it may be he is just spending more time on it, who knows. but you can't dismiss all the money steve has generated. dunno why you are trying to edgelord here though honestly not sure if you are just a really distraught NA fan who has just discovered that korea will be far superior than NA for a long time. TL is also one of the most storied Western esports franchises, and they have a site with lots of traffic. TSM is a relative newcomer, and I guess that their site/ etc. doesn't get the volume of traffic the TL properties do. Looking at it from a biz perspective, TL maybe offers more advertising opportunity, plus Steve has just been in the business longer so he knows people and such.
I think you're selling TSM a bit short on that. They have solomid, probuilds, champion.gg, and a few other websites.
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On April 20 2017 04:06 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2017 03:29 ticklishmusic wrote:On April 18 2017 08:40 dsyxelic wrote:On April 18 2017 07:04 cLutZ wrote:On April 18 2017 06:01 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 05:51 cLutZ wrote:On April 18 2017 03:20 Numy wrote:On April 18 2017 03:00 lilwisper wrote:On April 18 2017 01:54 Gahlo wrote:On April 18 2017 01:00 lilwisper wrote:
[quote]
I must say it is pretty impressive how TSM and even more so SKT stay so strong all this time. TSM pre Bjergsen had pretty stacked in region rosters and Bjerg era TSM and SKT have had the best player in the region at the most impactful position in the game. So I don't know how impressive that really is. It's true that Bjerg is a beast and Faker is even more of an animal. Extremely talented people. However it has been shown that without every cog working, and not just the star, that it is very easy to fall and fall hard. Even TSM and SKT have had their moments. However, they got past it and TSM has been in every NA final and SKT have won Worlds 3 times. The impressive part is the fact that they are consistent when more teams are becoming stronger and stronger in a game where one chink in your armor will send you spiraling down if not vanishing outright. TSMs consistency really is amazing but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say other teams have become stronger. NA has been largely a two horse race for the entirety of the scenes existence with merely who were the two horses changing at certain times. The fact that TSM has basically always been one of the two is incredible. Do wonder if the weakness of the rest of the teams is partly to blame for lack of any kind of international success. When you're always at the top uncontested mostly it must be hard to truly get to the next level. You need that running buddy pushing you forward to new heights. SKT has always had that force of antagonism. Western League seems to lack that currently. SKT having decent competition is definitely a bonus. I, honestly, still find it extremely disappointing that people don't see that Piglet/Impact being relevant LCS players is a joke. That is the gap. Those guys were the undoing of 2014 SKT, and yet are fairly high tier in NA. Like I said above, people complained about Hai's mechanics holding C9 back in 2015, his mechanics are average in the NALCS now, and Balls & Lemon are starting on the 3rd best team in NA. That is the gap. Were fairly high tier in the case of Piglet. No way in hell Flyquest is the 3rd best team. 1. Impact was the best toplaner in the LCS for a while. So IDK wtf you are talking about. 2. Fly placed 3rd, will finish 3/4, and its not like CLG would be favored against them... On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
what's so bad about Impact being good in NA? He's not as good as the elite korean tops in LCK but he's certainly right below them so its not bad. Its, basically, part 1 of "the gap". On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
like we know ssumday (and others outside of NA) is individually better but impact has transitioned nicely That is bad. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
impact could still play in the LCK and be probably an average top or at least a serviceable one. Serviceable for a team no decent NA team will ever face internationally. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
piglet's stock has dropped heavily. the only time he was the 'top' of NA LCS was in s6 spring when he was easily top 2 ADC NA. which is not too surprising considering the meta then. piglet's streaky patch player. on a good run he is a world class ADC and the other times he is barely average to below average. Its embarrassing he was ever the top of NA LCS On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
NA players aren't the joke, it's the NA system.
in the case of ssumday: he's clearly individually the best top laner in the NA LCS but outside of the korean system he is near helpless besides the rare 1v9. the only one that seems to have some hope is TSM but even they have their many flaws. Clearly we have demonstrated that it is both. On April 18 2017 06:32 dsyxelic wrote:
now if TSM and TL combined with steve doing only the business side ($$$) and regi doing everything else, I could maybe see a team that's consistently worlds bracket stage tier but other than that lol Regi appears to outclass Steve at all relevant skills so IDK what the point of the merger is. why is it bad? what is so wrong about a player from a superior league being good in a lesser league? I don't understand your logic here. it's nothing new to sports or esports. ok again what is your point? Impact would be average enough in a superior league that he wouldn't face NA teams internationally. what is the problem again? no cause piglet was actually good then. or at least in the context of the world, 'good enough'. yes it is both but the bigger problem is the system while you are focusing more on the players for some reason. disagree. steve seems better at getting sponsorships at deals with a historically mediocre (and lately shit) team. granted it may be he is just spending more time on it, who knows. but you can't dismiss all the money steve has generated. dunno why you are trying to edgelord here though honestly not sure if you are just a really distraught NA fan who has just discovered that korea will be far superior than NA for a long time. TL is also one of the most storied Western esports franchises, and they have a site with lots of traffic. TSM is a relative newcomer, and I guess that their site/ etc. doesn't get the volume of traffic the TL properties do. Looking at it from a biz perspective, TL maybe offers more advertising opportunity, plus Steve has just been in the business longer so he knows people and such. I think you're selling TSM a bit short on that. They have solomid, probuilds, champion.gg, and a few other websites.
Yes. TSM has tons of traffic. TL's main advantage is their better infrastructure outside of LOL, where I don't think TSM's teams have been all that successful.
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TSM has the best Smash 4 player, one of the best Melee players, had one of the best Smite teams, has/had the best Vainglory team, had one of the best CS:GO teams, and has/had big name Hearthstone streamsers(I don't know about the HS competitive scene).
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TSM being relevant in CSGO was something they merely bought in and then ceased to exist when they left. Competitive side they don't really seem to be that relevant outside of select individuals in some fighters(When US lets him in :<) and League. Their HS streamers mostly left TSM or don't really do much for TSM HS iirc.
For how big the team is in league and just pure fanbase I'd say it's a failing for the organisation. If you look at Cloud 9 on the other hand it they appear as more of a complete "esports" team than merely a League team with some side operations that TSM feels like.
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C9 vs. TSM finals looks really close on paper. The things I'll be watching out for are:
Svenskeren: This guy's been really inconsistent- sometimes he's a beast, other times he feeds. C9 really wants to get an edge in the jungle to make up for their disadvantages in mid and toplane.
C9 Toplane: Impact on a tank sounds like C9's best bet to me. Playing Ray on a carry champion instead could pay off bigtime, but will more likely fall flat against a Hauntzer who can expect support from Bjergsen and Svenskeren.
Wildturtle: Turtle did surprisingly well vs. Flyquest in the semis, but Sneaky + Smoothie is a much scarier botlane than Altec + Lemon, and C9 is a hell of a lot tougher than Flyquest. I'm expecting Wildturtle's performance to fall anywhere between serviceable to irrelevant.
I won't call the series either way because I'm not even rooting that hard for TSM... I want to see them win, but I also want to see Turtle fail so Doublelift comes back into the fold.
As for P1 vs. Flyquest... Flyquest is on an upswing of sorts, P1 is in freefall, but I still have to favor P1. I just can't bring myself to favor the likes of Balls, Moon and Lemon over the likes of zig, Inori/Meteos and Ryu.
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On April 22 2017 08:39 Zato-1 wrote:
C9 vs. TSM finals looks really close on paper. The things I'll be watching out for are:
Svenskeren: This guy's been really inconsistent- sometimes he's a beast, other times he feeds. C9 really wants to get an edge in the jungle to make up for their disadvantages in mid and toplane.
C9 Toplane: Impact on a tank sounds like C9's best bet to me. Playing Ray on a carry champion instead could pay off bigtime, but will more likely fall flat against a Hauntzer who can expect support from Bjergsen and Svenskeren.
Wildturtle: Turtle did surprisingly well vs. Flyquest in the semis, but Sneaky + Smoothie is a much scarier botlane than Altec + Lemon, and C9 is a hell of a lot tougher than Flyquest. I'm expecting Wildturtle's performance to fall anywhere between serviceable to irrelevant.
I won't call the series either way because I'm not even rooting that hard for TSM... I want to see them win, but I also want to see Turtle fail so Doublelift comes back into the fold.
As for P1 vs. Flyquest... Flyquest is on an upswing of sorts, P1 is in freefall, but I still have to favor P1. I just can't bring myself to favor the likes of Balls, Moon and Lemon over the likes of zig, Inori/Meteos and Ryu.
Should be a 3-0 in favor of TSM, playoffs TSM is a different team from regular season TSM.
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If C9 can just catch Sven's throws they have a chance.
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Well I'll be at NALCS finals after running 10km an hour before.
Anybody else going?
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Team with lulu wins. Why would flyquest give away the lulu. Every fcking play they will make the lulu will fck them over and every play p1 makes the lulu will give them the edge to make it work.
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On April 23 2017 04:15 TitusVI wrote:
Team with lulu wins. Why would flyquest give away the lulu. Every fcking play they will make the lulu will fck them over and every play p1 makes the lulu will give them the edge to make it work.
P1 have lulu/ivern/kog. If they manage to lose this would be pretty weird honestly. That combo is just insane.
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EPT
