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On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA
CN should > KR at least for the time being, simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch.
Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL.
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TSM in loser bracket, would be a huge surprise if they beat Blaze
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AZB seems to have a quite big slump here, how can that lose the Fnatic. Tomorrow is gonna be sick though. Loser bracket is so stacked.
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On November 30 2012 14:46 Caphe wrote:
AZB seems to have a quite big slump here, how can that lose the Fnatic. Tomorrow is gonna be sick though. Loser bracket is so stacked.
I can't think of anyone remarkable in the losers' brackets except Blaze.
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On November 30 2012 14:45 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA CN should > KR at least for the time being , simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch. Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL.
Koreans had chaos, which was a popular dota-clone before lol was made.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 30 2012 14:47 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:46 Caphe wrote:
AZB seems to have a quite big slump here, how can that lose the Fnatic. Tomorrow is gonna be sick though. Loser bracket is so stacked. I can't think of anyone remarkable in the losers' brackets except Blaze.
M5 and Blaze meet in Loser's round 3.
On November 30 2012 14:47 sharky246 wrote:
Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL.
Koreans had chaos, which was a popular dota-clone before lol was made.[/QUOTE]
There's absolutely no way Chaos was as pervasive in Korea as DotA is in China.
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On November 30 2012 14:45 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA CN should > KR at least for the time being, simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch. Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL.
I guess I should've made it clear, I was talking about average pro-scene, not overall scene (like yolo queue).
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On November 30 2012 14:45 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA CN should > KR at least for the time being, simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch. Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL.
That guy is pretty clueless. I play on both SEA and NA and from what I've seen the players on SEA are clearly better than on NA. And I assume the players on CN are better than both.
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On November 30 2012 14:48 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:47 Sufficiency wrote:On November 30 2012 14:46 Caphe wrote:
AZB seems to have a quite big slump here, how can that lose the Fnatic. Tomorrow is gonna be sick though. Loser bracket is so stacked. I can't think of anyone remarkable in the losers' brackets except Blaze. M5 and Blaze meet in Loser's round 3.
Oh OK. I was only thinking about the teams that got in losers' brackets from the group stage.
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It just the first half of the tourney, we can save the talk of which region is the best for later. WE will choke at important games  . They did fantastic today though.
My only surprise today is AZB in loser bracket, follow by SGS got beat by TSM. I guess that means SGS has really went down hill quite a bit.
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On November 30 2012 14:49 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:45 Kupon3ss wrote:On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA CN should > KR at least for the time being, simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch. Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL. I guess I should've made it clear, I was talking about average pro-scene, not overall scene (like yolo queue).
So like, the Chinese B-teams will lose to the NA/EU B-teams? Because it's hard to argue that iG and WE aren't very likely better than the top NA teams. At least, everytime iG has played CLGna it's been kind of a stomp and WE has a pretty impressive record against the NA teams. We haven't seen mid-tier NA teams play against mid-tier Chinese teams very much.
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On November 30 2012 14:49 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:45 Kupon3ss wrote:On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA CN should > KR at least for the time being, simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch. Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL. That guy is pretty clueless. I play on both SEA and NA and from what I've seen the players on SEA are clearly better than on NA. And I assume the players on CN are better than both.
Actually I would rate the skill of CN server on par with NA having played in both server. The reason for this is, even though CN has a massive LOL population, Tencent divide them into like 20 or more servers which mean the concentration of good players on 1 server is really low.
Many highly competitive people on CN server play on Korean server, so I'd rate Korean server the best in Asia and in the world as well.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 30 2012 14:49 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:45 Kupon3ss wrote:On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA CN should > KR at least for the time being, simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch. Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL. I guess I should've made it clear, I was talking about average pro-scene, not overall scene (like yolo queue).
You're still not being fair to the second-tier Chinese teams.
Honestly, if you put them up against Western teams, the second-tier Chinese teams wouldn't look that bad. They just look bad because the only opponents they get to face are iG, WE, and Korean teams--and they take more games from them than second-tier Western teams would.
Facing bad opponents makes you look good. Facing good opponents makes you look bad.
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CN is getting massive, all the top teams now have B teams and there are a couple of big LANs there every month. S3 is gonna be CN vs KR.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 30 2012 14:59 Dan HH wrote:
CN is getting massive, all the top teams now have B teams and there are a couple of big LANs there every month. S3 is gonna be CN vs KR.
There are also other major E-sports sponsors getting into LoL. Tongfu and DK had LoL teams in the G-League qualifiers (though IIRC they didn't get anywhere).
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On November 30 2012 14:52 Caphe wrote:It just the first half of the tourney, we can save the talk of which region is the best for later. WE will choke at important games . They did fantastic today though. My only surprise today is AZB in loser bracket, follow by SGS got beat by TSM. I guess that means SGS has really went down hill quite a bit.
I think AZB are seriously lacking without Reapered or the godly sub Shy. LoL has gotten to a point where everyone has to at least pull their own weight now.
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On November 30 2012 14:56 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:49 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:45 Kupon3ss wrote:On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA CN should > KR at least for the time being, simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch. Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL. I guess I should've made it clear, I was talking about average pro-scene, not overall scene (like yolo queue). You're still not being fair to the second-tier Chinese teams. Honestly, if you put them up against Western teams, the second-tier Chinese teams wouldn't look that bad. They just look bad because the only opponents they get to face are iG, WE, and Korean teams--and they take more games from them than second-tier Western teams would. Facing bad opponents makes you look good. Facing good opponents makes you look bad.
Take for example, Iceland, their elo is around 2000 and their claim to fame is to have beaten TPA once and won a minor HK tournament, yet they stacked up reasonably well against CLG.eu and were fully capable of winning had they shown a bit more conservative play and experience, that's a team around middling level in terms of Second tier teams in the Asian circuit.
On November 30 2012 15:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:59 Dan HH wrote:
CN is getting massive, all the top teams now have B teams and there are a couple of big LANs there every month. S3 is gonna be CN vs KR. There are also other major E-sports sponsors getting into LoL. Tongfu and DK had LoL teams in the G-League qualifiers (though IIRC they didn't get anywhere).
TongFu DK LGD etc teams have been formed for around a month and were essentially obtained because of LoL WC and their recruitment method was literally "apply here, give name and ladder score".
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On November 30 2012 14:56 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:49 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:45 Kupon3ss wrote:On November 30 2012 14:40 wei2coolman wrote:On November 30 2012 14:33 MooMooMugi wrote:
Safe to say that: CN > KR > EU > NA If we're talking about average skill of the scene, KR > EU > NA > CN > SEA CN should > KR at least for the time being, simply because the average player to start lol in China is likely to be higher than that of the other regions since DotA and other similar games have been fairly ingrained there for a long time and switching between games of the same genre is always easier than building up from scratch. Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL. I guess I should've made it clear, I was talking about average pro-scene, not overall scene (like yolo queue). You're still not being fair to the second-tier Chinese teams. Honestly, if you put them up against Western teams, the second-tier Chinese teams wouldn't look that bad. They just look bad because the only opponents they get to face are iG, WE, and Korean teams--and they take more games from them than second-tier Western teams would. Facing bad opponents makes you look good. Facing good opponents makes you look bad.
Hmm, that's probably true, but they still get stomped pretty hard. But, with that line of logic, I'd have to give SEA scene a chance, but in reality it's just TPA going like 30-2, or something silly like that.
You could argue b-teamers in EU have close games with Clg.eu too, but they're still just b-teamers. 1 game does not reveal a trend among an entire scene.
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Also in terms of individual skill China outclasses NA for sure. Misaya and Zz1tai are easily better than any NA AP mids. Weixaxo is at least even to Doublelift in skill (and personally I think that Weixaxo is better). Both regions have shitty top laners but WE/iG's aren't too bad. I don't play enough support to really judge that role.
The only role that NA is likely better than CN teams is jungle and as the game exists for a long time Chinese junglers are going to improve since it's mostly an experience/knowledge role.
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Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:48 TheYango wrote:On November 30 2012 14:47 Sufficiency wrote:On November 30 2012 14:46 Caphe wrote:
AZB seems to have a quite big slump here, how can that lose the Fnatic. Tomorrow is gonna be sick though. Loser bracket is so stacked. I can't think of anyone remarkable in the losers' brackets except Blaze. M5 and Blaze meet in Loser's round 3. On November 30 2012 14:47 sharky246 wrote:
Eventually KR should surpass CN in average skill though, since if LoL becomes the de facto eSport of KR with the established teams their skill level will increase rapidly on average, whereas as long as DotA exists China will never field a majority of their best players for LoL. Koreans had chaos, which was a popular dota-clone before lol was made. There's absolutely no way Chaos was as pervasive in Korea as DotA is in China.
Chaos was really really big back then. Everybody there used to play it.
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EPT
